Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Praj Industries Limited Q1 FY25 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. I've handed the conference over to Mr. Anuj Sonpal from Valorum Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, everybody, and a very warm welcome to you all. Sorry, good afternoon now. My name is Anuj Sonpal from Valorum Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Praj Industries Limited. On behalf of the company, I'd like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the first quarter of financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings conference call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's beliefs as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions.
The purpose of today's earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Now, let me introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We firstly have with us Mr. Shishir Joshipura, CEO and Managing Director, and Mr. Sachin Raole, CFO and Director of Resources. Without any further delay, I request Mr. Shishir Joshipura to start with his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Anuj. Good day, everyone. Welcome you to Praj Industries' earnings call for quarter one FY25. Trust all of you had the opportunity to go through our results for the quarter that ended 30th June 2024. Earlier this week, the honorable finance minister presented the Union Budget, wherein specific policies outlined indicating appropriate pathways for energy transition to support India's energy security. The budget strongly supports the agri-industry ecosystem, which will help address feedstock-related challenges and boost bio-manufacturing. National Cooperation Policy for systemic, orderly, and all-round development of the cooperative sector will inspire biofuel industry stakeholders to favorably consider long-term investments. A financing plan for private sector-driven, commercially scaled research and innovation is a positive step for the development of bioenergy technology in the country.
Further, a taxonomy for climate finance for enhancing the availability of capital for climate adaptation and mitigation will support the achievement of the country's climate commitment and green transition. Prime Minister's special package for skilling programs will help feed the employment demand generated with the propagation of the bioenergy projects. Coming to business performance, this quarter's performance reflects the changing dimensions of our business dynamics. We are witnessing a healthy buildup of opportunities in key strategic areas of the company's business. Our continued focus on innovation at the leading edge of technology will enable us to deliver healthy performance going forward. Coming to domestic bioenergy business, the quarter witnessed a slowdown of activities, mainly from the unresolved feedstock situation, as also the central elections.
The prospective customers await a clear long-term direction to emerge on clearance to use Molasses B or syrup as feedstocks, as also the removal of embargo on the issue of rice from FCI for ethanol production. This will enable the new projects to be planned and existing projects to move forward with execution. We continue to see new capacity buildup, dominated by starchy feedstock, with over 75% of our domestic order book coming from starchy feedstock-based plants. On the international bioenergy front, we received a very interesting order for production of low-carbon ethanol using lactose as feedstock, which is separated from milk from a US-based customer. As stated during last earnings call, grain-based ethanol projects are gaining increasing acceptance in the Brazilian market.
We have several strong leads and dialogues for ethanol projects based on grain, and we are in the advanced stage of negotiating several potential customers for starchy technology solutions. On the GBA front, India is set to be the global headquarters for the alliance. The working committee has framed a work plan for the finalization of the charter for the GBA. As we move forward, GBA will open several opportunities for bioenergy projects in many parts of the world. Our service business saw healthy growth in order book and revenue in this quarter, both in domestic as well as international markets. We continue to see increasing traction for our offering, which is expected to drive future growth in this business. Biogenic CO2 capture is also increasingly finding higher interest, and we now have contracts won from Thailand and Zambia.
On the 2G front, IOCL plant recommissioning is progressing as per plan. We are working closely with the IOCL team to resolve the unique situation and ramp up production in the agile manner. We have commenced a feasibility study for a straw-based ethanol plant in Spain for a Spanish multinational. On the CBG front, the inquiry pipeline is developing in a healthy way that is expected to translate into some business as we progress through the year. We are setting up a pilot plant in the United States for testing RNG generation from waste streams in a grain-to-ethanol project in collaboration with the US-based organization. Once the trials are successfully completed, it will open a new waste stream-to-RNG application in grain-to-ethanol segment for us globally. On the biopolymer front, Praj is the first Indian company to indigenously develop technology for lactic acid and lactide.
We have produced the first batch of lactic acid 90% at our newly set up demonstration plant at Jejuri. This is a milestone development in the bio-manufacturing domain. Understanding the importance of feedstocks in bioenergy development, Praj has established a Center of Excellence in Innovation with Vasantdada Sugar Institute for the integration of farm-to-fuel model. The COEI will focus on developing alternate feedstocks through intercropping models, for example, sweet sorghum with sugarcane, maize with cassava, etc. Moving on to engineering businesses, on the EPCF front, we have completed manufacturing of our first equipment from the GenX facility in Mangalore. We have since shipped this shipment as well. We have received a significant engineering order for complete modularization of a SAF project in the United States on EPCF basis. We have received another contract for modularized solution of carbon capture for a blue hydrogen project in Europe.
Our zero liquid discharge business is also gaining momentum, and with increasing acceptance of our modularization solution for our customers, we have received an important contract for modularized systems from Indonesia. We have completed the installation of the IOCL Dumad project, and we are in the process of handing over the plant. Our PHS business continues to deliver consistent performance and has seen strong traction from our high-capacity fermenter operators. PHS is setting up a very large fermentation complex for a very reputed pharma company in southern India. With this, I will now hand over to Sachin for his comments on the financial performance.
Thank you, Shishir. The consolidated income from operations stood at INR 6.99 billion in Q1 FY25, as compared to INR 7.36 billion in Q1 FY24. PBT before exceptional items for the quarter stood at INR 788.8 million, as compared to INR 777.03 million in the corresponding period for the last year.
PBT after exceptional item is INR 1.07 billion. The exceptional item is pertaining to the sale of land. Profit after tax stood at INR 841.81 million in Q1 FY25, as compared to INR 586.72 million in Q1 FY24. Of the total revenue, 72% is from bioenergy, 20% is from engineering, and 8% is from Praj HiPurity business. Export revenues accounted for 23% of Q1 FY25, showing a 24% increase over the corresponding quarter of the last year. EBITDA margin has also seen an improvement of 291 basis points over the corresponding quarter of the last year. This improvement is on account of moderation in input cost, as also decomposition of revenue. The order intake during the quarter was INR 8.88 billion, with 68% from domestic market. Of the total order intake, 52% came from bioenergy, 38% from engineering, and the balance 10% from Praj HiPurity.
The order backlog as of 30th June 2024 is at INR 40.44 billion, comprising 67% of domestic orders. Cash in hand as of June 30, 2024, is INR 8.3 billion. Initially, VJ and shareholders had approved the payment of final dividend of 300% per share. I now conclude my remarks, and I would like to thank you all for joining us on this call. We will now be ready to discuss any questions, comments, or suggestions you may have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands up while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for taking my question. My first question is, sir, how has the inquiry in the last couple of months on the-
Hello, we cannot hear you well, sir.
Can you hear me now, sir?
No, we could not hear you. Could you please speak again?
Sorry to interrupt, sir, but I request you to use the hands up, please.
I'm using the hands up. Is it better now?
Let's try. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks for taking my question. So my question is on the how has the inquiry in the last few months on 1G, and how do you see the order inflow moving over the next few quarters? Can we expect a growth in order inflow in this year compared to last year?
Okay. So let me just paraphrase the question so that we know that you understood me well, that audio connection was not good. You're asking how is the inquiry pipeline building up for the ethanol 1G business, and do we expect the year-end to be better order booking performance than previous year? Is that the question?
Yes. Yes. Absolutely right, sir. Absolutely right.
Okay. Thank you. So if you look at the ethanol, domestic ethanol business especially, it is, well, as I've said in my statement as well, there was policy intervention around feedstock application that was allowed and permitted, and that needs to get normalized, and that is what has actually impacted because two major feedstock streams, Molasses B, syrup on one end, and rice issue from FCI on the other end, both of these were taken off the list as permissible feedstocks, which has led to a situation. A, there are inquiries, there are dialogues with customers, but we are not able to take the final step for finalizing of a new job. On the other hand, there are also projects in execution that have come to a halt because, obviously, the feedstock is not resolved. There is no way we can move forward with the project.
So we, we expect, as does the entire industry, that, as we move forward through the year, we will see a resolution of this and a more permanent long-term solution will be provided, at least to address the situation today. I think on a long-term basis, we also have to think of alternative feedstock, and we'll, that is where I was referring to the COEI we established with the Vasantdada Sugar Institute, to look at intercropping and what can be done. But broadly speaking, we expect, we have a pretty healthy pipeline of the 1G domestic ethanol, and we also have visible visibility for the year-end order booking, which is likely to be higher than the first few years.
Understood. My second question is, sir, what would be the 1G services contribution to the total revenues in Q1?
Sorry, we don't actually have a segmental kind of a number.
Okay.
I, unfortunately, will not be able to tell you specific numbers for services business.
Understood, sir. My last question is, can you talk about the ETCA and its potential in the near term, and what kind of revenue contribution one can see over the next few years?
So, as I was mentioning, the development is extremely unique. There is no other company, in India or anywhere near about which has even, been able to develop and demonstrate this technology. So we are right now at a stage where we have built a demonstration plant. Obviously, we have tested it in a pilot scale systems and R&D, and now we've built a demo plant where we started to run the process, and we have made what I would call as the first production of, Lactic Acid 90%. There are steps to be covered beyond this step as well, and as we go through this development cycle, we will speak about it at an appropriate time.
What is sufficient for me to say right now is that this is a huge step forward to herald an era of biopolymer, bioplastic manufacturing in the country using indigenous feedstocks and indigenous technology.
Understood, sir. Thank you, and all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Anwani from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my question. First question on the Brazil thing. So you highlighted that, the pipeline for grain-based plant is also developing there, and I think we want some order also. So wanted more color on the Brazil pipeline. One is, is there any competition in suddenly we are getting the grain plants there? Are we, where are we not beating there? And second, how is, how are the payment terms and, size of the, each plant and what kind of pipeline we can see FY25, FY26, from Brazil?
Okay. Thank you, Amit. As the Brazil market is concerned, predominantly it has been a sugarcane to ethanol market, but over a period of time after the sugarcane to ethanol market where it had sort of reached its peak, a clear realization in Brazil as well as here in India as well where we realized that sugarcane ethanol has, obviously gets restricted to the states of locations and geographies where you are producing sugarcane. Similar situation also existed in Brazil. For example, we were surprised to know that in southern Brazil there is no blending taking place for ethanol as well. I mean, it's at that end from a country which is at 27% blending, at the minimum.
So there in those parts of the country, southern Brazil, other parts of central Brazil, there is a clear push now to say what can we do with using starchy feedstocks, and that is where we, we stepped in and we established the first project with, and commissioned it now. So obviously, now there is a proof on the ground of our technology and its performance, which is helping us a great deal. The Be8 contract that we mentioned has helped us a great deal because Be8 is the opinion leader in the region, and that particular project for whom we have become the engineering now will help us to actually establish our credentials even further.
Just the fact that we have working for them has also opened up further doors apart from the fact that we've also been making independent marketing efforts in the region to establish our technology because in other countries in Southern Africa and South America, we have definitely established our performance on grain-based systems. So that was there for ability to see, but now we're also in Brazil. We have seen several several leads open up. There are several dialogues. There are engineering contracts getting formed up. The model is a little different. Usually, one would expect that you'll get a full contract to on day one. That's not the way Brazil works. So they would like to go through steps of first engineering, finish the engineering, and then get a firm grip on the overall project cost, and then move forward with the establishment of the project.
So cycle extends a little bit differently. Overall cycle time remains the same, maybe a month here or there. But we are very, very positive of the dialogues that are developing in Brazil, and as we go through the year, we'll talk about it more.
Sure. Secondly, any update on the ultra-low carbon U.S.A.? I think things were slow past 3-4 months. So any expectations for this year for ultra-low carbon plants in U.S.?
Yes. So for the U.S. market, we have talked about low-carbon ethanol opportunity and not ultra-low carbon opportunity to start with. This was essentially about our solutions to the existing corn ethanol projects to drive them, to achieve a lower carbon, lower carbon index number, intensity number for their current operations. As we had spoken about, the first project is under execution right now, which will come up maybe this time next year, in terms of its running on the ground and commissioning. So we are still a year away from commissioning the first project in the United States. What's also happening is that very clearly as the movement moves forward on SAF production, there is a clear need for low-carbon ethanol to meet the demand. We are in dialogue with companies to see how that could move forward.
There is an important consideration from the IRS perspective, for notifying the 45Z applicability. That's a risk contract, legal requirement, and that is still not clarified, and we are everybody included in the industry is awaiting the clarification of 45Z. Once that is available, I think it will provide further impetus to the agreement.
Sure. Lastly, sir, on,
Sorry to interrupt you, sir. I request you to come back for a follow-up question.
Sure.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address the questions from all the participants, please limit your questions to two per participants. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital, India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. So basically on this straw-based ethanol order in Spain, what will be our scope of operation, or is it like similar to 2G project what we have done for IOCL?
So, Vikram, that is the order for in first feasibility engineering. So that's we are a long way away from the project yet. As the feasibility study is done and we establish the feasibility of the project, then probably we'll be able to answer your questions better. But it is for a 2G project in Spain.
Okay. And actually I was hoping some announcement for bioplastic because there were comments in interim budget on giving some support for bioplastic production, but I think there was no announcement in this budget. So how would be our roadmap going ahead? You explained a bit, but is there any something else which government is waiting for?
So, Vikram, even during the interim budget, the government had laid out a very ambitious plan of pushing bio-manufacturing in the country, and that was a very clear direction set. We have no reason to believe that that is changing. In terms of specifics of the policy, I think we have seen several announcements which are, I, I would say, more long-term but more sustainable in terms of pushing R&D, bio-manufacturing, getting every tech aligned to it because feedstock is a major issue that's being understood by everybody. So I would, I would call these are the enabling ecosystem moves that will happen in this budget. So we are very, very, very bullish about the fact that as we move forward, bio-manufacturing will continue to occupy its place in the sun.
Got it. Thank you very much, sir, and all the best.
Thank you, Vikram.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shailesh Kanani from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is with respect to numbers per se. So revenue booking was down, and we had higher op, other, manufacturing expenses as well. So if you can throw this, throw some light, how we should model, model it for the whole year and, how would that, other manufacturing, expenses move out? I understand, this quarter maybe we have booked some expenses for manual facilities, but if you can throw some light on that.
Okay. On the revenue, yes, there is, there is a little bit late execution during this quarter. Even the supply activities were on a, on a little lesser side as compared to what we generally do in the first quarter, and the site activities were on the higher side, and that's what has, actually, added into our other expenses. Your, your observation is right. The additional manufacturing expenses which are occurring under other expenses is on account of expenses which are entering in our new facility at Mangalore. Going forward, we believe that, yes, Mangalore facility is in a phase of getting ramped up. It has just started. First supply order has only got dispatched, very small order, but at least from the, establishing that factory from all the, approvals point of view, it's getting established now.
The expenses will continue to happen, and we believe that starting from second quarter on, second half of this year onwards, we will see the revenue generation will start from this facility. There is some kind of a delay because of the approvals and all that. Those were not in place, which we were expecting to happen in the first quarter, which are actually falling in place now, and the revenue ramp-up will start happening from Q2 for GenX, and that will normalize the expenses which we are seeing in the first quarter.
That's, that's helpful. Sir, just continuation with that point, are there any one-off in terms of GM? This time the gross margin seems to be very impressive at 53%, and also, if you can mention some percentage of order book which is slow moving or kind of, pending for execution.
Okay. So the gross margin which you are saying, I think partially I reply to your question by saying that the revenue has some site-related activities for which the expenses are sitting in my other expenses. So in the procurement, the margin, the way which you are looking at has the element of sales from site, but expenses are sitting in other expenses. If you add these two and figure it out, the contribution margin, then there is an improvement of almost 4% in our contribution margin. Out of that 4%, around 2% is because of the softening of the input cost. So we are still executing some old projects where the price, the contract price is at the old price, and we are now getting a benefit of that softening of the input cost.
So there is around 2% benefit of that, and almost 1.5%-2% is because of the composition of the orders, the way which those got executed during this quarter. Export is on a higher side. Engineering orders are a little on a higher side, and that's what has contributed in the higher contribution margin. If you ask from the going forward point of view, we believe that the positive which we have received on the softening of input cost will continue for some time till we execute the entire old orders which were predicted at the old material cost, and the benefit of more engineering orders coming into the picture, which will definitely give a better margin from the bottom-line point of view.
And sir, slow moving orders in our order book?
I will not call it as a slow moving, slow moving per se, but because of the, naturally, the first quarter for all the manufacturing companies has seen some kind of a slowness generally on account of the national elections and all, so that has impacted to some extent. Some clarity from the Syrup side and B-Heavy Molasses says that that will, that will expedite the execution of the orders. I don't think more than 5% of our order book will be can be considered as the slow moving in that sense, maybe INR 200 crore-INR 250 crore order book.
Okay. Great, sir. Sir, just last question from my side. So,
Thank you, sir. I request you to come back for a follow-up question.
Okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dipesh Agarwal from UTI AMC. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Sir, my first question is on the engineering side. We have seen an uptick in the order inflows in the last few quarters. So have we started booking major orders for Mangalore facility, or that is yet to come in? So Dipesh has continued explaining. The Mangalore facility is just now getting fully functional, so we'll probably see in second half of the year order execution from there. In this particular business, the facility has to be pre-approved by the customers that in the contract they say you can make it here. So obviously, since the facility was not ready, we could not get that in the previous contract. We'd have to get engineered and then take an order execution.
But as we start to book new orders now, we are at that stage that we can start getting this specified as customers have approved the facility, the facility itself has obtained the necessary certification, that we will be able to take contracts. And maybe towards the end of this year, end of this calendar year, we will start to see an actual production start rolling out of the factory. In the next financial year, you will see it is full force, but till that time, we'll have to see it gradually build up.
How long it will take us to go to a full, potential of that facility? I guess in the past, you have highlighted INR 2,000-INR 2,500 is the revenue potential. How long it could take us to get at least 70%-80% of that potential?
Yeah. I mean, that could easily be a 2-year kind of a time frame from the time we start rolling out production line.
Okay. And sir, sorry?
We have to build, then we have to get the engineering done, and then execution. So we're looking at, and those are not short-cycle projects, so we're looking at a 2-year kind of timeline.
Okay. Sir, can you help us in terms of the pipeline which is there for the CBG, grain-based and even 2G ethanol in the domestic market, for the next three quarters?
So for CBG, as I mentioned, as the ecosystem starts to come around, we will see gradual traction. There are issues to be resolved on the ecosystem side. At the same time, now the blending mandate coming, becoming compulsory in about 18 months' time frame, we'll, projects will have to start moving, especially in the second half of the year. So we are already seeing an increase in activity level, inquiry level, people wanting to, you know, set up projects and discuss around those. So that's the positive development that we have seen. It's not very smooth-flowing business yet because of different ecosystem elements that have to fall into place, but I think as we go through the years, we'll start seeing CBG develop positively as well.
Sure. And, grain-based and 2G ethanol, how the traction is in the market now?
Grain-based ethanol, as I mentioned, already 75% of the order book is out of grain-based. One wind in the sails for domestic grain-based ethanol will definitely be what happens to the FCI rice, and I think that's a good indicator. But also, there is a clear directive, unwavering direction to say it has to be more of a maize-based production, and we are seeing reports and from our customers as well that maize availability is starting to improve. So again, the ecosystem, these are the ecosystem elements that have to come into equilibrium with the demand on the ground, and as that starts to happen, we'll start to see. But clearly, fast forward will improve a significant portion from grain-based feedstock.
Recognizing this very challenge that we are facing on the side of feedstock, I think that is where I mentioned earlier as well, that our Center of Excellence that we established with Vasantdada Institute for inter-process model will go a long way in helping, and that's something that is progressing very, very rapidly.
Sure. Sure. 2G inquiries, are you seeing in the market now, 2G inquiries?
Yes. So as I mentioned, there is an inquiry out of Spain that we mentioned earlier in the call, on which we are working right now. There are, but the key issue is, and that we was already stated, that everyone, including us, are commissioning happen, but the IOCL project commissioning is critical for that, and we are going through the steps right now to commission it full scale by the end of this calendar year.
Okay. Sure. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address the questions from all the participants, please limit your questions to two per participant. I repeat, please limit your questions to two per participant. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prathamesh Sawant from Mirai Asset Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good afternoon, sir. I had one question which is related to our engineering segment. This engineering segment, when we are catering to the ETCA, so is it just we are catering to ETCA, is that in green hydrogen and blue hydrogen projects, so including carbon capture, or do we have some other critical process equipment offering also for them?
No. So ETCA is a very large segment, Prathamesh. Hydrogen is just one of them. So blue hydrogen, carbon capture, green hydrogen is one part of the segment. There is waste-to-energy, which is completely different. There is energy efficiency program that, so ETCA is a very large, large umbrella of applications, including on the gas side, the whole CNG applications that is happening now in the United States, etc. So it's a very large portfolio of applications: waste-to-energy, green energy. And when I say green, this is not the conventional green energy. This is also about energy enhanced energy recovery in traditional oil systems, energy systems. It is about the hydrogen systems, green, blue, and it is about industrial gases, so ammonia. You know, there are many, many dimensions to this energy transition.
Essentially, what we are saying is the current molecules come from a carbon-intensive way, and the new molecules that this segment is addressing will come from less carbon-intensive way. And that's a very broad way to understand. If anything has fallen in that category, it will be catered to by this business.
Okay. Okay. So, is it fair enough to understand that it will be cannibalizing some part of our earlier engineering businesses, so where, you know, which were earlier considered as engineering businesses that we are considering now in the ETCA segment?
No, the ETCA segment is distinctly different from the earlier. The earlier one continues, there is no letter from that. So oil and gas, chemicals, those segments where we were offering services, that will continue. However, this one is very clearly a very new segment where, as I said, high carbon-intensity manufacturing of our molecules shifting to low carbon-intensity molecules. And that's a very broad swath. It is hydrogen, it is ammonia, it is the color of the hydrogen, it is green chemicals, waste-to-energy projects, thin-gas projects. There are a whole host of gamut of applications where this is open. So ETCA, very different. Carbon sequestration, very, very different compared to the previous business. So both will continue independently.
Okay. Okay. And sir, are the offerings in this segment would be?
Thank you, sir. I request you to come back for a follow-up question.
It's just a connection to this. Is it the product offerings that we have are more of solution-based, or is there more modular, physical products that we'll be doing, or is it engineering solutions?
It's a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag in the sense there are equipment that have to be made, heat exchangers and columns and, you know, reactors, etc. And then they go and sit on a kit, or on a module. So, and then the module gets built around it. So it's both.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir. I'll get back in touch with you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you all for the opportunity and congratulations on a healthy set of results. I had two questions from my side. The first one being this comment that was made by the management that overseas orders fetch higher margins versus domestic orders. Could you give us some more color as to why that would be happening? Is it a function of competitive intensity, value creation? Some more color would be useful. And what would be the forward trajectory? In the definition of these two margins would be useful to know.
Sir, the export orders generally we undertake engineering, technology, and the supply of equipment, and we don't undertake the construction activity which are generally forming a part of ETCA activity, which generally happens in domestic orders. And that segment don't carry a great margin as compared to these other segments. That's the major reason because the component of our export orders is only related to technology and equipment. That's the major difference for having been difference in the margin.
understood.
From a margin point of view, as your question is talking about or asking from the future point of view, our endeavor is to shift to more international order as compared to domestic order in a larger pie, which is definitely from the overall margin perspective, it is going to be margin equity.
Understood. The second question was also on margins only. I was trying to get a sense, and I know your business does, but there has been volatility on account of input price pressures in the past, potentially reflective of the EPC nature. Is there something that we as a company can do to kind of moderate this down, or will this be a continuing element of our margins and cost structure?
The nature of our contracts is mainly on the fixed-price contract. So there is no mechanism of passing on any negative or a positive impact of input cost to our customers. So naturally, this element technically will continue. We have seen a very different phase 2 years back and continued almost for 1.5-2 years of a higher input cost, and we have seen our margin getting affected to the extent of almost 2-2.5% during those years. But now the reversal has happened. Material prices are more or less, looks like to be in a range. The future projections from all the experts are also giving that kind of an indication. So we don't see any kind of impact coming up because of the input cost going forward.
Thank you. Those were my questions, and all the very best to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Siddhant, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good afternoon. My question is on the line of Shishir. Is there any visibility on our MOU with Oil and Gas? And do we see anything in the future, like FY25 or FY26?
Sorry, could you please speak a little slower because the line is not very clear? I, we could only catch that you were asking something around SAF, but later on we couldn't catch what you were asking, sir.
Okay. No, I'm asking on SAF, is there any visibility for FY25 or FY26 from the SAF, this area?
Okay.
Like what, yeah.
As mentioned in my opening remarks, we are now being awarded a contract for full-scale engineering and modularization of a SAF project in the United States. That is going to be a full, large-scale commercial ETCA project. And being the size of the project, it could, the engineering time itself could be up there over 6-8 months. So that is what we are undertaking just now. Once the engineering is, and once we're closer to the engineering model completion, we'll get a full view of what is the likely cost of the project. We have done the preliminary study, and it looks very positive. But as we go through this process, and maybe another 6 months' time, we'll get a better visibility. And there are several projects for SAF that are being talked about right now.
We are looking at addressing the needs that are emerging out of those projects. We are in dialogue with at least half a dozen SAF projects now across the world, to offer our services, to them.
Okay. Anything in, on domestic front? Like anything on the domestic front? No.
On the domestic front as well, I think we have to, there are two dimensions to it. One is that there is, we know for sure that come January 2027, and the CORSIA agreement will kick in, and under which, 1% blending will be mandatory for all international clients. So there is a clear demand. So as probably, and given the 18 months, 18-20, 24 months kind of time cycle required for the project to, for the SAF project to come alive, we'll probably see activity. We are already in dialogue, but we'll probably see major traction build-up towards the end of this calendar year.
End of this calendar. Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Congratulations, sir, on your performance. Given that, sir, you mentioned that you have got good inquiries in the engineering side and also on the export side. So should we, you know, see continuity in the margins that we are seeing right now, or in the similar range?
So Ankita, yes. The export, we have stated as part of our strategy that we would like to improve the share of pie for our international business. That is what we are witnessing. We have been working at it for some time, but we are now beginning to see results. Current pipeline also makes me believe that we are, we have no reason to believe that we'll be anything other than that. So from that perspective, yes. As Prathamesh was already explaining, the international business for us happens to be, higher margin equity compared to domestic business. So all those indicators are yes. The exact numbers, time will tell, how they will ex-exactly play out. There are multiple interplays. Directionally speaking, yes.
Okay. Okay. And on the CBG side, I think the question was already asked, but wanted to understand if, you know, there were more orders that were there in the pipeline which were supposed to come in. So, when is that expected?
Yeah. So as I, as I mentioned to you earlier, that there is a clear mandate now to blend CBG into the CNG networks. So that was, that's a very, very welcome step, which takes care of a very, what I would call as, a major issue of where do I sell my gas? But the, the pipeline network becomes that much easier. Having said that, there are still, as a, as CBG is a business where several elements on the ecosystem side are continuously being resolved. And as they get resolved, we move forward. So as I was saying, it's not a very regular, smooth-flowing business like it's now. Yes, it's not at that stage because the ecosystem is still under development. So it tends to be a little lumpy here and there, but overall, moving in the right direction.
So as we go through the year, maybe in the second half of the year, we'll start seeing activity build-up on the CBG space.
Perfect. Sir, last, if I can check on the exceptional items, this land sale, you know, what is this, and are there any more that is planned in the near term? That's it for now. Thank you.
We are not speaking on the land, right? This was a land which was available with us, and which we believed that we would not be able to utilize it. Earlier, it was planned that we will take a land, and, and we will build up a factory over there. But as we have moved to Mangalore, and we realized that this land will not get utilized for any, factory kind of a thing, that's the reason why we have sold it. This is the only piece of land which we had as an excess land, we can call it. I'm not expecting any more exceptional item like this going forward.
Great. Thank you so much. Wish you all the very best.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sai Siddhartha from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for this opportunity. I just wanted to understand, what's the low-carbon, ethanol opportunity that is available for us in, U.S.?
Sorry, sir, your voice is very weak. We're not able to hear you.
Can you hear me well now?
Yes. Yeah, now it's okay.
Yeah. I was just asking, the opportunity that is available for us in low-carbon ethanol in the U.S.
Okay. So, here are the broad numbers on the US. So the low-carbon ethanol demand from the demand of SAF. So by 2030, the United States government has given a plan under the Inflation Reduction Act for 3 billion gallons of SAF to be produced in the country. The first 1.6 billion SAF will come out of a process called HEFA that doesn't involve ethanol. But after that, because there is no more feedstock left for HEFA, the expectation is that alcohol-to-jet or ATJ pathway will become the de facto pathway, which means a further billion-odd capacity between now and 2030 will have to be built using ATJ pathway, as mentioned about the large engineering order that we're, you know, executing, which is for the same pathway. So, and all of these, so if it's a billion gallons of SAF, it'll be 2 billion gallons of ethanol.
That's the equation. So 2 billion gallons of ethanol will have to become low-carbon ethanol, in the United States' existing plants. And now that's a fairly big opportunity, because, on an average, we can take 100 million gallons as a capacity of one plant. Okay. So at least, at least 20, if not more, will have to convert over the next 4 to 4 years or so, to low-carbon ethanol. And each of them, depending on what they are currently and where they are, can present an opportunity to us, ranging from $10 million-$30 million per plant. So we'll have to see how that goes.
Understood. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhaval Shah from Infinite. Please go ahead.
Welcome, sir.
Good afternoon.
I recall, we had mentioned that we had taken a CBG order from a large conglomerate. I could see their name is present in the presentation this time around. I remember they had given us an order on a turnkey basis, which was a new thing for us. Now, I'd assume that we have executed that order and that conglomerate has plans of establishing 50-odd plants in the coming two years. So how was our experience in executing those orders, and how are we positioned to, you know, going ahead in capturing that opportunity?
Great question, Dhaval. So yes, the good news is that, we have executed now two contracts for them. One, in their headquarters, manufacturing headquarters, not in headquarters, headquarters. And, the other one, in another location. In fact, on 1st of August, there's a large inauguration that has been planned for the plant, by the management of our customers. So, and we are very, and this is from whatever we know, they have indicated to us that they are extremely happy with the execution and the performance of the plant so far. And we do hope that as we move forward, the performance will move, will help us to actually win even more contracts. We're building a few more for them, but they are still away from commissioning. They're probably about, sometime, beginning of next calendar year. So that is under execution right now.
But the work we have built for them, and it has already started to produce gas. It's worked very well, and it's all good, well, for us. We have only received positive news. And I do hope that this will translate to more business as we go forward.
Thanks for sharing. And one more question about PLA. Since we have now got some breakthrough on PLA, what would be the addressable markets going down the line, say, in five years? Do we see that?
I think, Dhaval, that we, we are the first company to have indigenously developed a technology that uses local feedstocks and can convert this to, this is the critical step is to convert that to, lactic acid 90%. That is the full name, lactic acid 90%. And we have now achieved that, but of course, that's first step. We still need to do this on a consistent basis. We still need to showcase to our customers. So already, several dialogues with customers are, beginning to open. And as we move forward, we will see how that develops. It's probably a little early for me to say any numbers around what business will happen. We are very bullish that overall the world needs to move, to biomanufacturing because that's a more sustainable way of living. We said this for 40 years for ethanol, and only last time we've seen them convert.
So we'll have to see how that works. It was slow conversion, but CBG didn't take that long. It probably took much faster off. So we expect that as we move forward and we develop a little better understanding of sustainability, these things will come into work.
Great. So since we have so many opportunities coming up in so many segments, I just wish and hope in the next 2-3 years, all of them converge together. And, you know, we are executing all of them in a great way. And I wish you all the best for the future endeavors.
Thank you. Thank you so much. In fact, that executive dialogue I had with my chairman two days ago, and we are saying, "How are we going to prepare if such a thing happens?" And we said, "Yes, we are cognizant of what we need to do." And thank you very much for your good wishes.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhaval from Samar Wealth. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes.
Sir, my question is, what is your future outlook for various segments, or what are the projected percentage contribution for each segment?
Sorry, is the question what is our understanding of the future of EV?
Yes. Yes, sir.
Okay. So we are not a medical manufacturer, so we don't know. But, but from what we have there, we see that I think what we have to understand is that every technology will have a role or a place in the overall car park, if I can use that word, that the terminology which automotive companies use. So in the overall car park, which includes two-wheeler, four-wheeler, everything, there will be a definitive place for different technologies to emerge. What we have to understand is that as a country, what works for me and what works for me better. You think like this, if it is an ICE engine, which is the current engine in the cars that we use, that uses biofuel as an improved energy source.
Oh, okay.
A much, much larger part of my country gets involved. My farmers are happy. My industry is happy. I create employment for the youth. My supply chains remain undisturbed, and on, on the automotive side because we're still making the similar cars, and vehicles. Our, on the retail side of network, again, we can use the same one that is used for liquid biofuel, liquid fuels, again, for liquid biofuels as well. They are being used as well right now because they are blended. So there are, it saves foreign currency for me. It keeps nations well inside nations. It ensures that we will have lower carbon emissions. So everything is on the positive side, right? It's a full value circle. It's a closed, what I would call a circular economy, and that helps the country. On EV, not all of these benefits are closed.
There are some other benefits that one can get. So we'll have to decide what works for us as a country. God has given us sun. God has given us agricultural land and a very hardworking farming community. That's what we have. We don't have those fancy minerals that are required to make batteries. So unless that technology changes, we'll have to see differently. I personally believe both will have a place in the sun. For India, ice is a better option.
Okay, sir, understood. Thank you.
Thank you, Dhaval.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good afternoon. Sir, why has there been a reduction in order intake? You have given a graph on page 10. So quarter-on-quarter basis, like, specifically for this quarter, what went wrong and any, any outlook ahead? How is the pipeline looking overall?
Okay. So first of all, let me start from a numbers perspective. It is not looking good. It did not look good, and it should have looked good. On the other hand, we don't think anything went wrong in the sense that we have not lost any market share. The market potential is still there. All the strategies that we have played out are playing. But of course, there were three major, four major factors that actually impacted, and that's where I want to draw attention. First and foremost, first quarter with central elections in our business, which is agri industry, you know, policy-driven, too many factors that play for a central election quarter to actually, so first two months were lost in a manner of speaking. That's number one.
Number two, prior to the election, there was what I would call a reprioritization of the feedstock for the industry, as I said in my opening remarks as well, which led to a situation that people were not able to decide on setting up new projects because the hold was given for a temporary period, but it is still not removed. So they are waiting for it to be removed. All the bankers will not give money for the projects if there's uncertainty on feedstocks. Prior to that, there was on the starchy feedstock as well in the domestic market. So a lot of our buildup was around domestic business that was happening.
However, we had also recognized that maybe we need to prepare ourselves better, and that is what we have been doing, and that is how we see our order book significantly change in its direction. A, the export component going up. B, the engineering, and PHS division. So we are now at about 50-48 ratio. If you've seen our past numbers, they'll be more like 80-20, put together, but now it's more like 60-48. So, and, also our export business is almost 42% of our order book. So some of these steps that we have taken, not immediate, not that we have taken them in a rush. We have taken them in a very sort of thoughtful fashion, and they have helped us to, bridge the gap.
There has been some time lag between the two, but as, I was answering earlier as well, as far as the year-end is concerned, we stay very positive that we will do better than the year went by as far as order booking numbers are concerned. It's just a little bit of timing difference plus these factors that I told you. I think as we move through the year, we'll start to see the improvement.
Okay. And, secondly, just any revenue guidance for the. Sorry to disappoint you. We don't give revenue number guidance. When you talk revenue guidance, my CFO forgets. Is that a matter? He's otherwise a brilliant guy, but he forgets. But directionally, we can expect much better results than last year?
Well, that's our attempt. That's our goal.
Oh, okay, sir. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Faisal Zubair Hawa from H.G. Hawa & Company. Please go ahead.
So, sir, you know, this is a, like a previous participant also pointed out, and you also in your talk with your, chairman, this is a problem of plenty. And, you know, maybe we are rightly placed, in so many, segments. And, it's, it's all the result of the brilliant R&D that we have done, you know, two decades ago. So, my, my, I want to see, you know, some kind of change taking place in the overall, you know, senior management or, you know, where, you know, you, you actually recognize that, you know, you can actually, you know, double or triple revenue every three years, without, you know, even deploying much capital.
And where is that change coming from, or will it, how will that, you know, change of mind take place, you know, where you so far, like, you know, you have been batting at a steady state, and now, you know, you're at, you have the opportunity because of the foundation to really build up strongly on that. You know, this is like, to me, it's looking like a last 20 over the one-day match, and you have just lost two or three wickets.
Well, I think you've done a great analysis. Let me compliment you on that. I think you've banged on target when you say that the R&D work that we've been, we've done over a period of time is actually come to good stead for us now.
It has actually prepared a platform for us to actually launch and address this multi, multi-year activity. That's exactly the way we see it, that we are beginning to see opening out of different. So we are no longer dependent on single molecules in a single market. We are now multiple markets, multiple molecules, multiple solutions, multiple capabilities that we can get paid for. So very different, what I would call as a canvas for the company. That's exactly the way we are thinking. In fact, I think somebody had asked me right at the beginning of this call that would you actually achieve the guidance that you gave of 3x growth by 2030? I said, "Yes, we are on track.
There is no reason for us to believe otherwise," but as we all learned, we should stay true to the strategy that we have sort of defined for ourselves, make sure that we continuously align ourselves should there be changes in the external environment, and keep working hard and keep going at it. And I have no reason to believe that if we do all of that stuff and things remain normal, we've all learned in 2022 what happened. So subject to that kind of a thing not happening, yes, we are on track.
Okay. Thank you a lot, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sagar Dhawan from ValueQuest. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. So my question is on the execution timeline of the current order book. So could you just tell us what is the execution timeline for the engineering part of the order book, and is it different from the current bioenergy execution timeline?
See, engineering orders right now we are having a mix of orders because they're not typical orders. Some, some are for the longish period, especially the one which I received for engineering of SAF skids. So the engineering order itself will get executed over a period of at least 8-15 months kind of a period because the scope is pretty, pretty large for those engineering orders. All other orders which are non-engineering, they will get executed over a period of 10-15 months.
Understood, sir. Okay. And, the second part, second question was on the capital allocation plan. You know, what is, what is the capex plan going ahead for this year as well as FY26? And, in the light of, the opportunities which are emerging, like for example, IOC and JV or, renewable chemicals and, you know, in the longer term, what are the broader capex plans from the near to medium-term point of view?
So currently, our capex will get a little bit on the two sides from the feedstock sources for the capital expenditure point of view. One on the GenX. GenX is still coming, and the entire CAPEX is not yet done. Some CAPEX will happen during this year also. There is something which will be happening on the PLA side, and the pilot plants which we are thinking of in the R&D. So there is another one. Third one, which we are not yet fully finalized, but there will be some allocation which will be happening for the IOC and JV, as you rightly mentioned, depending on how many projects are going to kickstart in this year.
Next year, naturally, it will be a little bit on a higher side because if it is CBG plus, SAF plant if you are thinking of, and which is on the anvil in any case, then the capital allocation will be a little on a higher side. To fund this, we are looking at different avenues, and not necessarily that it has to be completely and entirely funded from our side. So we are looking at different avenues to fund that. So one on the capital expenditure side or allocation side, and on the funding of that capital allocation, the way in which we are looking at are two things which are going on parallelly right now.
Understood, sir. Any CapEx number for FY2025?
It should be in a range of around INR 70-75 crores to INR 100 crores.
Got it. Thank you, Mr. Sonpal.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shyam Maheshwari from AB Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Wanted to understand how are our payment terms on export orders? Are these largely FOB or CIF? And how should the working capital move, you know, with more export orders in our order book?
It's actually a combination. I will not say that everything is FOB or everything is CIF. It's a combination of both depending on how the customer is looking at. And then if they are having their own arrangement of lifting the goods, then those are basically on FOB basis. If they don't have, then they generally ask for CIF from our side. Your second question was related to working capital?
Yeah.
So working capital, we don't see any, what I can say, pressure on working capital per se, even if we see, in future the revenue to grow. The working capital will remain in more or less similar kind of number of days what we have seen in the last year.
Understood. Just secondly, wanted to understand a little bit more on the low-carbon ethanol opportunity. I believe there was some great framework that was released earlier in the year, which kind of enabled a different way to look at how carbon intensity had to be calculated. Are you seeing more traction in the low-carbon ethanol opportunity in the U.S. because of the changing framework, or is it still status quo because of the 45Z notification? Is there anything that has moved there?
No. So 45Z gives an additional incentive for people. There is some clarification that is required to come whether every ethanol producer who does this LCE conversion gets it or only those that get used for SAF. So there are many of these nuances, and I'm bringing one of them, that sort of get there. So firstly, so there are two things. One, the SAF opportunity will drive LCE demand. That's, that's the demand. There is no question. And we are seeing that, as I've mentioned, I think I'm, if I remember my math correctly, what I said earlier, roughly 20 plants will have to convert between now and the next 4 years to LCE projects, each of them between $10-$20 million depending on what they are currently at, kind of opportunity. So it does present a very definitive segment of the market for us to address.
We have the technology and the solutions to do that, and that's what we're looking at right now.
Interesting. And is it possible to do it, do low-carbon ethanol without carbon capture? Because I think that is how we are targeting this.
That's exactly what our offering is, that if you cannot do CCS, we will still be able to get you down by nearly 30 points on the CIF case.
Okay. That is established. I mean, we have a proven technology.
Yeah. That is the CCS.
Interesting. Very interesting. All the best.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shirom Kapur from PL Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on CBG. So, you know, in your opening, your remarks you spoke about, setting up a pilot plant in the U.S. So I just want to get a sense of what the opportunity is for CBG in international markets and if you could maybe quantify the pipeline to give some more color on, you know, the international opportunities in CBG.
Yes. Yes, Shirom. So, so what I mean, I'll just connect you to the answer that I already gave. So, the low carbon intensity of the molecule is becoming a big driver. So far, right now, everything was around the volumes and the cost, but I think the new dimension that is coming in to these biomolecules is the carbon intensity of the molecule. And, therefore, when people are now setting up projects, especially in that part of the world when they're doing grain-based ethanol, which is the large application there, they are saying, "How do I go about reducing the grain-based ethanol's carbon intensity?" There are different levers that you push. Intercropping is one of them. Using waste-starved material is another one. modern farming practice is another one. The whole supply chain and, and the delivery chain.
In between the process plant itself, they are saying, "What can I do to actually reduce the carbon intensity?" For that purpose, using a waste stream for generation of gas is a very, very, what I call a very high potential and high-value carbon intensity reduction technique. It has its own attendant issues that need to be addressed, but this is very much doable, and that is the one that I alluded to. So right now, we are putting up a pilot plant to understand after we have generated the gas, how do we manage the effluent that is left over. That is what the whole experiment is about. We are working with the U.S. company to make it commercially workable compatible with the local fertilizer laws there.
If, if we can achieve that, and there's no reason to believe otherwise, but if we can achieve that, as in when we achieve that, that will open up this whole segment for this application.
Okay. I, I understand. So would this classify, you know, from a segmental classification, does this come under, you know, your ETCA offerings, or would it be as part of your bioenergy offerings just to get a?
It is Bioenergy. It is Bioenergy offering.
And similarly for, you know, the SAF opportunity where you, you know, you've got an order, right now for the complete modularization of a SAF project for ATJ, which is, you mentioned, is part of that whole overall opportunity of low-carbon ethanol, in SAF. So again, just to understand, are we considering this whole low carbon opportunity, is to drive your engineering business, or will it be within your 1G internationally? And could you give some clarification on that?
That depends on what you're offering, right? What is my offering? If my offering is only about engineering and modularizing, then it's part of the ETCA platform. If it is about producing low-carbon ethanol and then converting that, then there's a technology element that can work, then it's part of the bioenergy business.
Okay. So it's flexible from that sense. This overall, the 20 plants we converted, it could fall under either category depending on your offering, from that perspective. Is that the right understanding?
Yeah. That's right. That's right. So depending on the component, the if there is a technology element, then naturally it comes under the Bioenergy segment. If there is no technology element, then if it is the modularization solution, irrespective of the application within ETCA, it will come under ETCA segment.
Okay. That's much clearer now. Thank you. And lastly, on CBG, you know, just to get a sense of in at least the domestic market, you know, we've heard reports of, you know, 750 CBG plants to be set up, at an INR 37,500 crore opportunity size. So is that the opportunity, addressable opportunity specifically for Praj, or what is Praj's share in that overall pie of 750 plants and 37,500 crores?
So, CBG space, yeah. I mean, the opportunity is even bigger than that. So that's not the limiting factor. As I was mentioning earlier as well, the development of the ecosystem around that takes the offtake side. There are multiple offtake points in this one, you know. There's a liquid fertilizer, there's solid fertilizer, there's gas itself. Again, on the supply chain side itself and the feedstock. So, these ecosystem elements are gradually coming into place. Also, what I would call the user points. So there are more and more, I think, as you probably have seen the ads that I've seen, about CNG vehicles being pushed by major manufacturers because that is another one. So I think some of these elements have their own speed at which they start to sort of become a part of an overall system.
That's what we are seeing right now. If the whole thing plays out on the CBG side, I think we will be able to see the full CBG play, even at a much larger scale because the SATAT manufacturer is a much larger outlay for the program. So we are not right now limited by X number or Y. I think much more the question is much more broader right now.
Okay. Got it. No, thank you so much. That's all my questions, and good luck.
Thank you, Shirom.
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Shailesh Kanani from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity again. So my other questions are answered. Only one question. We have mentioned about an order for production of low-carbon ethanol using lactose separated from milk from a U.S.-based customer. Can you throw some light in terms of size or opportunity out there?
It's an interesting one, because this is actually this qualifies low-carbon ethanol, very low carbon intensity score. So this is low-carbon ethanol. This is a very potent source for low-carbon ethanol. So, in fact, maybe next quarter we'll talk about it. We are speaking to this customer with whom we are setting up the first project in Michigan. On the story side, you know that Amul launched the milk in the United States, and the same dairy will also be the production point for them in the United States for their brand. So that's just a small story on the side. But give me some time. This looks like to be promising, especially large dairy concentrated areas. It's a niche application, but a very interesting one.
Just to clarify, this is the first of its kind, this we are doing, or because I've not read it earlier in our reports or anything?
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, Shailesh, that is right. This is for the first time it's happening.
Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot, sir. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Prathamesh Sawant from Mirae Asset Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir. So just two questions. So one is, when we looked at the domestic 1G ethanol plants, so typically we had 30%-35% of that as our engineering component of the plant. So when we have looking at these U.S. plants where, you know, they have been converted into low carbon, and you said you have $10-$20 million opportunity across 20 plants. So what is this? Is this entirely our target opportunity, or do we consider 30%-40% of this opportunity again?
No. This is our target number.
Okay. So directly, so we can expect INR 300 million kind of a revenue over a span of next two to three years from this?
Yes. Who am I kidding? You know, it's addressable. You can say it's addressable. That's what we can. If we get all of this, yes.
Yeah. Assuming, like, if we have 15 million across 20 plants, so that's how we can. Yeah. And so secondly, sir, what percentage of the domestic ethanol capacity do we, or capacity is yet to be built or, you know, of that INR 1,000 crore that was supposed to be built for the 20% blending, what percentage of the work is left?
So if I look at my inquiry pipeline, it's equally heavy. So we don't see any letup in the development of the inquiry pipeline for the domestic ethanol market. So if that's an indicator, then there is still a lot to be done. And I'll tell you why. Because there are some imbalances that sort of crept in, one because of the feedstock situation. You know, this is permitted. That is not permitted. This needs to get focused. This will not happen. This is going to this particular zone and not in that zone. So I think there are a multitude of factors that are at play. So we still believe that we are not run out of the ABP20 program. Of course, one time we will reach that capacity. We are commissioning, as you mentioned to you, that last quarter there was a lot of construction activity that underwent.
So just capacity will come into play. We still have two major feedstock constraints. So we need to see when they get unfrozen. Difficult to answer it just now, but that's where we are. So we do see, yes, it is not at its heyday level of capacity creation, but it is still there where you can.
A ballpark figure of 200-300 crore liters is left. Can we put it that way? Because it was 500 crore liters 4 quarters back.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Faisal Zubair Hawa from H.G. Hawa & Company. Please go ahead.
Did you see that the engineering contracts, which are already with us, will take around 3 years to complete?
No. I was mentioning orders with engineering and supply of modularization; they can be a little longish depending on the size of an order. But if it is only engineering, if it is only a service, then I was mentioning that it can range between 8 months and go up to 12 months or so depending on the size of an engineering order.
So, any plans of, you know, getting a very good, international guy to head over sales function and, you know, who continues to travel across the board in U.S., Europe, and, you know, kind of, you know, does a lot of exhibitions and, a lot of lobbying with even governments, to really get this going? Because with now some size emerging for us, we can probably, you know, afford that and, you know, make the company, you know, go to large giants like how Hitachi has done or, you know, how large U.S., MNCs have also, you know, emerged.
So Faisal, thank you. We are not at Hitachi level yet, but we are definitely participating in forums where we need to be heard, where we can present our solutions, where we can build, we are part of, what I call platforms where they bring industry players together and then create a consensus view. So those we are taking definitely taking participation in. I mentioned about GPA. That's going to be the major platform, and we are playing our role, as actively as we can. There are other platforms also where we are very in the clean energy ministry dialogue. There are many multiple platforms to which we participate in, both in the United States and Europe and now Brazil as well. And we in our current understanding, that is sufficient given our size and scope and what we can manage.
And wherever required, we'll take the help of external agencies as well. And just to add what Shishir said, our current leadership pipeline is good enough to take care of whatever is happening in the market, especially the international market which you're referring. We have very dedicated people who are concentrating on the different segments of businesses to understand what is going on there. A couple of guys are actually stationed there, and the people, the senior leadership team from India office very often travels to these markets, and definitely does the required business development for this business. And we are building a team which is local in nature, okay? So we are at least all the people on the ground now that we are building are local people.
When I say local, they are natives of that place because obviously they are much what I would say much closer to the culture and the reality compared to us sitting here thousands of miles away. So we are taking, what I would say concrete steps, to ensure that we are not found wanting on this dimension.
I know for a fact that the promoter is not very active with day-to-day activities of the company. But even at his end, is there any kind of succession plan for his holdings and, you know, how things will pan out?
I think that's a question you need to put to him, not to us. However, just let me tell you, so Dr. Chaudhari is very much involved in strategic direction of the company, what we do on the technology front, how we are developing technology, how we're prioritizing ourselves. That's the whole idea that over a period of time he has thought through. He's trying to ensure that the Praj management becomes professional. So that's how many of us are having our jobs here. We are doing what we can. He's doing what he can. I think together it's a good synergy. Of course, the board constitution, you'll see there are a multitude of elements that sort of get played out on this side. The board constitution, his own thinking, his involvement, professional management, planning.
There are multiple elements, and we have no reason to believe that there is any gap right now in terms of what we require at least for the next five years.
Thank you, sir. I may, I must, you know, tell you that this is this Praj remains always the best phone call addressed by management and with in-depth answers. You know, we, we are able to always have better understanding of the company after the phone call. I cannot appreciate enough.
Thank you. Thank you. I'll get you a cup of coffee and see you next time for that. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take this as the last question. I've handed the conference over to the management from Praj Industries Limited for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for your time today. In case you have questions, please write to us at info@praj.net. Once again, thanks a lot for your time today, and have a great day.
Thank you. On behalf of Praj Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.