Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. B. R. Preetham, Executive Director and Group CEO. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good morning and welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining this call. On this call, I'm joined by our CFO, Mr. Vikas Goel, our CEO of ADS division, Mr. Hari Krishnan, Rahul Kale, our COO, Praveen Chauhan, our Head of Corporate Strategy, and also Mr. Ravi, Director in MMRFIC , and our Investor Relations Advisor, SGA. The results and the presentations are uploaded on the stock exchange and the company websites, so I hope everybody has had a chance to look at them. For the fiscal year 2025, Sansera Engineering crossed INR 30,000 million mark in terms of top line with a 7% revenue growth on the year-on-year basis. These are highest ever annual and quarterly performance in terms of top line and PAT. With this performance, we continue to outperform the industry growth despite multiple headwinds in the Indian as well as global economy.
Broadly, the domestic automotive industry registered a single-digit growth across the segments, primarily due to a high base effect and muted demand. That said, the outlook, particularly on the two-wheeler side, is looking better for the coming year with a strong rural demand supported by improving consumer sentiment. On international business, things are moving at a slower pace as decision-making from OEMs with respect to production and new order placements and the new projects has been on hold due to tariff-related uncertainties going on globally. We hope that this is a temporary phenomenon and would get addressed in a short period. Hence, we see some impact in our export business in Q4. We saw some impact in our export business in Q4 FY 2025, especially on the auto side.
It is expected to continue in the Q1 FY 2026 as well, while our exports from India would be impacted a bit, but our Sweden business is doing better now, primarily due to volume and price improvement with our key customer. Speaking of non-auto business, we now view this segment as ADS and non-ADS. ADS stands for Aerospace, Defense, and Semiconductor, whereas non-ADS would include Agriculture, Off-Road, and other industrial application. We anticipate significant growth in the ADS segment in the years to come. And to drive this business, we have recently appointed Mr. Hari Krishnan as the CEO of ADS division. I would like to take this opportunity to introduce you to Mr. Hari, who has joined us in February of this year, and he brings in over 30 years of leadership experience in the manufacturing sector.
Prior to joining us, he held key leadership roles in the renowned organizations like CIE Automotive as CEO of Forging division, Nipman Forging as COO, to name a few. Hari will also oversee the business development activity of the entire group and would be a key member of our leadership team. Speaking about the segment-wise performance for the year, in the non-auto segment, we delivered a stable performance on a year-on-year basis. However, the fourth quarter saw a 15.6% increase, especially on the ADS side. ADS revenues stood at INR 1,235 million in FY 2025, with a 13% growth on a year-on-year basis, with the production schedules moving up for our key customers in the Q4. During Q4 FY 2025, ADS segment revenue surged 43% on a year-on-year basis to INR 434 million.
The outlook for this segment is very bright, as we expect this upward trajectory to continue in the coming quarters. This will be aided by the addition of another larger aerospace OEM and the Semicon revenues flowing through. The rest of the non-auto business delivered a top line of INR 2024 million. If you look at the xEV and Tech Agnostic segment, it continued to demonstrate a strong momentum, registering a year-on-year growth of 28.6%, mainly due to healthy growth in our xEV piece on the back of the execution of orders for our North American customers. Collectively, both xEV and Tech Agnostic segment accounted for close to 15% of our total revenue. With our new Forging press, we are confident to do stronger business during the year.
Turning to our traditional ICE automotive components business, the two-wheeler segment delivered a steady performance, contributing approximately 44% of the overall revenue in the ICE pie. The passenger and the commercial vehicle segment contributed 18.6% and 10.5% of the total revenues, respectively. Thanks to our attempts to diversify our revenue streams, the ICE business share of overall revenue fell to 73.6% in FY 2025 from 75.4% in FY 2024. When considering the massive ever-expanding base of the segment, this accomplishment takes on further significance. As of March 2025, our order books stood at INR 18,511 million following the annual reset process, wherein we exclude orders that have transitioned into mass production during the year. Notably, over 60% of the order book comprises of international orders, reflecting the continued strength of our global business pipeline.
Of the total INR 185.11 million orders secured during the year, about 28% of the orders came from the ADS segment. During the year, we focused on preparing a playing field for our future growth, as we have undertaken multiple strategic investments for the capacity enhancement. We spent about INR 100 crore to acquire a 55-acre land in Karnataka for our future expansion. We plan to start construction work in FY27. We have also invested INR about INR 35 crore to acquire a facility in Pantnagar, and we expect it to operationalize by Q2 of FY 2026. Further, we have done brownfield expansion at our Bidadi plant by adding new machines and setting up a forging as well as machining lines, which are in line with production plans for our new orders.
Before my closing comments, I will take a minute to update you on MMRFIC, our strategic investment, which we made a couple of years ago. It is progressing as our expectations. They have multiple products with qualified technology for aerospace, defense. MMRFIC has also received government orders, grants, and developments from ISRO, DRDO, and DIO. We are very optimistic about its prospects, given the high focus on the defense sector and continue to support their endeavor with regular investments. Looking ahead, the outlook for our business remains strong, with multiple growth levers across the segments, particularly ADS, where we expect to double the revenue in the year FY 2026. In this dynamic world, we see a lot of opportunities coming towards the Indian companies, and Sansera is well positioned to capture these opportunities. I now hand over the presentation to Vikas Goel, our CFO, to talk about the financial performance.
Thank you.
Thank you, Preetham. Good morning, everyone. I will take you through a glance of our consolidated financial performance for the quarter ended March 2025. Our total revenue from operations increased by 5% on a year-on-year basis, reaching a figure of INR 7,817 million, as against INR 7,458 million last year in the fourth quarter. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 1,271 million, with a margin of 16.3%. Other incomes saw an increase, primarily due to deployment of the residual funds from QIP and resulting in interest income. Depreciation and amortization expenses stood at INR 468 million, in line with the investments that we've been doing in our facilities. Finance costs during the quarter decreased to INR 96 million, from INR 225 million, as we have reduced a significant amount of debt from our balance sheet. Profit after tax at INR 592 million, with a growth of 27% year-on-year.
PAT margin remained healthy at 7.6%. Talking about our full-year performance for financial year 2025, our revenue rose by 7% on a year-on-year basis. The details were already discussed by Preetham earlier. The total revenue stood at about INR 30,168 million. Our EBITDA for the year stood at INR 5,148 million, with a year-on-year growth of 7%, and the margin in line with the previous year at 17.1%. Profit after tax witnessed a growth of 16% from last year and stood at INR 2,169 million, with a margin of 7.2%. Our operating cash flow net of taxes continues to be healthy and stood at INR 3,766 million, which is 12% of our operating revenue and 73% of our EBITDA for the year. During the year, we have done CapEx of INR 5,000, or I would say we have spent towards CapEx, INR 5,911 million.
Going ahead, we continue to spend on adding capacities in the current financial year. At the year-end, the net cash amounted to INR 125 crore as a result of the cash generated or cash received from QIP. Thank you. I would like to close this call and open the session.
Close the address and open the session for Q&A.
Thank you, sir. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, let us wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, first question is on the PV segment. So we have continued to see a lot of weakness there. So first is, if you can sort of break out the decline of 16% to 17% in the quarter into the domestic and exports, how does it look? And for the export markets now, I mean, given the visibility which your customers are giving, how do you see the trends there to sort of plan out for the year? Are you seeing some sort of pickup in schedules or the near term you still maybe can extend for a bit more time? And how does the tariff sort of getting impacted? Either we are absorbing or passing it on? How is that tariff playing out for us?
Thank you, Siddhartha. See, PV segment for us on a full-year basis last year actually degrew by almost 7.9%. This was primarily due to a fact that there has been a significant slowdown in the second half of the year in the export market, owing to a lot of uncertainty both in Europe as well as in the U.S. Also, it was not aided; I mean, it did not get too much of support because of the finally, at the end of the last two years, the last year, the tariff problems also started. Now, because all the OEMs also were very cautious to reduce all the inventories, pipeline inventories, because shipping across the border from Mexico, the whole vehicle also eventually was stopped or was coming at a higher tariff. So there were a lot of cautious approach from the customers.
Actually, our order book has been very strong from the PV segment. In fact, we expect to outgrow our performance in the coming year as well as years to come. Overall, if you really look at our average growth, this segment will grow faster for us because there are several opportunities where we have already contracted for the new orders both from North America, Latin America, as well as India OEMs, exports, and Indian domestic segment. While we are quite confident on the overall year performance, of course, there could be certain impact on the first quarter and towards the half of the second quarter as well because this needs to be, I mean, as of now, the base tariffs are in effect, 10%, and we are in close discussion with our customers who have taken all the inputs from us.
Very few of our orders currently are the duties paid by us, whereas most of our export orders are currently duties are paid by the customers directly. So wherever we are paying the duty, we are already in discussion with the customers to offset it. But it is still, the times are still uncertain. We are still not clear as to what would be the end result. But we expect at the end of this whole exercise, there will be more tailwinds for the Indian component manufacturing industry rather than any headwinds. So having said that, we expect that this year we will have a stronger performance both in terms of passenger vehicle, both XEV as well as the normal ICE segment.
Does that answer your question, Siddhartha?
Yes, sir. Sir, second question is on the tech agnostic side. Here also, we had a good order book in the aluminum forging business, where I understand that capacities are largely booked for us. But growth in this segment also been a bit soft in the last couple of quarters. So how do you think about this segment? What are the key orders here, and how should we expect the ramp-up here?
See, tech agnostic segment, yes, the order book is strong, and there have been slight slowdown in this segment because there is one of the customers, the European customers, had an issue with insolvency and stuff like that. So there was an impact on that to an extent. But other than that, the business in terms of—and also in tech agnostic component, some of the premium models which were expected to do well, where we had all expected that there could be more traction in the premiumization segment in the domestic market, had some initial hiccups. But we see that the traction momentum has started to happen now. We are seeing a lot of increase in the pull from the customers on these models. But exports continue to be the thing.
As I had also commented on the XEV, especially on aluminum forged components, we are now in the stabilization phase where we are actually focusing on operational excellence and improvements. In fact, like last time, I had told that we have had enough order book to focus on consolidation of our operations to improve the margin profile, improve the operational efficiency. That is the phase in which we are working, especially on aluminum forged and machined components because we have a very healthy order book totally about close to about INR 400 crore totally. And this year, our focus will be to execute it in a more efficient manner, where most of the learning curve I have already, most of the learning curve is already past us. We have gone through all the learning curve, especially on class A components, where a lot of product learning and technology learning went through.
We are quite confident now that this year it would be returning a stronger growth.
Got it, sir. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in the queue.
Thank you, Siddhartha.
The next question comes from the line of Arjun Khanna from Kotak Mutual Funds. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for taking my question, and thank you for the presentation. I think it's very detailed. The first one is just back onto the earlier participant's question of U.S. demand. You did mention that we are seeing uncertainty-led demand slowdown. So are the OEMs procuring from someone else? Is there a domestic supplier, or how are they fulfilling their demand at this point in time?
Arjun, good morning. So currently, the entire industry, as we see, the share of business has not been changed. So what is happening is there's a lot of inventory consolidation and correction that has happened because when there are tariff uncertainties, because very few of the vendor base, at least largely, is inside in our component categories inside the U.S. Either it is in Latin America or in Europe or in China or in India, where all the countries who are supplying have been affected by the tariffs. So I don't see that, I mean, as per our knowledge and our market feedback, we haven't lost any share of business, but it is a general correction or the slowdown that is there.
Sure.
On the contrary, U.S. customers are talking about a lot of new projects and initiatives, both in terms of upgrades as well as the things, which we had actually expected to close down before the end of Q4. But these things are slightly delayed because of the tariff clarity. But all the technical work around these orders have already been close to completion. So we expect that once this uncertainty is removed, there's a lot of traction on this segment.
Sir, we were historically planning the overseas plant. So any update on that?
Yeah, actually, the update is just that we are on a pause mode because we had selected the site. We were about to sign the contract. But for now, the thing, see, the kind of opportunity sizes that are being discussed and on the verge of finalization do require our presence in North America. Now, the issue here would be that depending on the final tariff on the product and USMCA norms that would come into place, what kind of operations that we would require to be put into that facility is what remains to be seen. So while we were very certain in our pre-tariff period that we need to put up only final assembly and a couple of final operations along with inspection and go down operations, that could slightly change depending upon the overall value addition that one needs to be looked at.
While the forging definitely would remain in India, that it doesn't make sense. But the extent of operations can only be decided once the final tariffs are there. Buyers are also keen but are waiting for tariffs to stabilize. So once India signs up the thing, I think there is a lot of tailwinds that will be there towards the Indian auto industry.
So we may have to do more machining in the U.S., if I understand correctly what we are...
I mean, that, Arjun, depends on final tariffs and how they are going to. Suppose if this base tariff is also going to continue, and then if there is some additional tariff for the thing, so they would prefer that there would be some extended value addition that needs to be done. But that is why we put the whole thing on pause so that the size and the space requirement could change depending upon the final matrix. So that is why.
Sure. Sir, my second question is, sir, if we go to slide 20 in non-auto, we write aerospace. So this aerospace includes defense and semicon, or is it just aerospace and semicon and defense is in others?
So in the last year's numbers, you say?
Sir, on slide 20 of the presentation, we have slide 25, 24, 25.
Yeah, this includes the aerospace, defense, and semiconductor. And if you look at meaningfully. It's only semi-aerospace, actually. It is actually most of it is aerospace. Gradually, we are building revenue in defense and semicon also.
Arjun,
going forward, you'll see a bigger number there.
Yeah, yeah. Just to add to what Vikas said, that while we have renamed it as ADS, the meaningful ADS contribution will happen this year because a lot of qualification on the semicon and defense has happened now. And we are now just starting the mass production of the semiconductor piece because these are, I would say, these are for us, at least as Sansera, these were totally different technology altogether, much higher level of precision and kind of operations that we are doing, especially in semicon area.
With this added, we expect that, as I told in my commentary also, that we expect the ADS business to be on a safer side should deliver double the revenue of last year. We expect that it would be more than that. But then, given the lot of pieces, puzzles which need to be put together, I would still say that doubling the revenue is definitely on target because that is keeping that in mind. We have also done a lot of investment both in terms of machining facility, in terms of level 1000 clean rooms, quality systems, and also special processes. So in fact, if you really look at our plant and machinery investment, a lot of that last year and also continues to this year would go into this piece given the kind of order inflows.
You would see in the coming period, there would be also more clarity on further order wins from our side.
So just to give context to this, we did roughly aerospace 130 odd gross, 132, 133 gross in FY 25. We are saying this could be around 265 gross in FY 26.
It would be very close to 300 gross, between 280 and 300 gross. Yeah.
Sure. Thanks a lot. And I'll come back in the queue. Wishing you all the best, sir. Thank you.
Arjun.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Anirudh Shetty from Solidarity Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Just needed some data points here. In our order book, which is 60% exports, can you give the split across Europe, U.S., other markets?
Give me a second, Anirudh.
Yeah. So you mean in the order book of overall order book, how much is, sorry, 24% comes from Europe, 27% comes from North America, and about 9% comes from Asia.
Got it. So my second question is we are seeing a lot of progress in our tech-agnostic xEV business, but a large share of our business in ICE is actually two wheelers today. Can you just give a sense around the kit value that we're seeing? If you just come for, let's say, a customer, if you did X amount in ICE, are you seeing the kit value increase when the model shifts to xEV, tech-agnostic? And if you can just quantify that, that'll be helpful.
I think, okay, we have spoken about the kit value consistently over the period. So depending upon what kind of model that we work with, if it is, see, tech agnostic components generally are all aluminum forged and machined components. So in the scooter segment, there are limited number of such components which are there. It could be suspension. It could be some in braking, some in suspension. So there would be, if you really look at an ICE scooter versus an EV scooter, the content per vehicle for us largely remains the same. But the addressable market could be between INR 4,000 to INR 5,000 per vehicle.
But whereas if you really look at once the shift of electric vehicles happens towards motorcycles, then that is where the real game changer will be because that is where the content per vehicle is expected to go up significantly because of the lightweighting requirement on the motorcycles is far higher than the requirement in the, so just to put a figure that if we are able to secure all the components that we are doing for similar models, it could go up to a five-digit mark, could go up to almost INR 10,000 per vehicle as the kit content. So this is how contextually you would have to see. These are about an average ICE motorcycle content of between 1,800 to 2,000. That's where we are.
This is very helpful. Thanks for clarifying that. Just one final question is, in our Europe business, do we have a sense around what is our exposure to the European passenger vehicle OEMs out there?
See, largely today, whatever we export to Europe, barring our Sweden facility, which actually in our international business, that also contributes. That is largely for the commercial vehicle and larger engines. But otherwise, our European sales largely is on passenger vehicle only. So I would say that exactly I don't have the numbers now, but more than 70% of our exports to Europe is for passenger vehicles.
Okay, so you're saying that 26%, which is exports from India, of that, give or take, 70% is for passenger vehicles to Europe. That's the standard.
That was the question. I thought only Europe you want in the overall exports, how much is the passenger vehicle? Was that the question?
No, no, sir. No, it was Europe specifically. So then you think 70% of that, 18% of sales.
Yeah, yeah. Correct. So you are right. You are right.
Got it. Got it. No, this is very clear. Thank you, sir.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vaibhav Shah from DSP Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So the first question is on the subsidiaries' performance for the quarter. So if I look at our consolidated revenue and profitability numbers minus my standalone numbers, it seems to be a little bit slower in this quarter. Also in performance highlight, you have mentioned that the subsidiaries are having some one-off impact on profitability, which is expected to stabilize in Q3. So can you just talk about what is this impact and how do you see this performance improving over the course of FY 26?
Vaibhav, I think last year we did comparatively better in Sweden because Sweden, we got the price support from the customer in terms of both piece price as well as there was a one-time grant that was also given to enhance the capacity and also support the production because there was another vendor who closed down, and then we had to immediately ramp up the production and support them for that. So looking at that, our EBITDA margins for last year were definitely much better than compared to the previous year. But going forward, I would say fully here, I think EBITDA margin of Sweden was about 11.4%, which was way higher than the previous year, which was 6.4%.
So going forward, we expect that this would be stable between 10% and 12%, which is what we, given the context of Europe and the cost structure there, and a limited growth opportunity that is there, while we are growing at about 15% to 20% this year. But then 10% to 12% stable margin is what we expect to be delivered from our Swedish subsidiary.
From second half of this year. So basically, the comment that you see on the presentation is referring to the one-off where we got a lump sum compensation for a previous cost increase from the customer. So going forward, this will become a uniform margin as we speak.
Understood, sir. Thanks for the clarification. So just if I see my consolidated EBITDA margins, which has declined on a QoQ and a YoY basis to 16.3%, how should we think this EBITDA margin improving with higher contribution from segments like non-auto, auto tech agnostic going faster, say in FY 26 or beyond? Where do you see this settling as well as subsidiaries you were talking about margins stabilizing over here?
Yeah. Definitely. See, as we were speaking a little while before, that our ADS segment is supposed to perform really well based on the schedules that we have and the kind of ramp-up we are doing in that space. And this is a much higher margin business. Plus, we also expect improvement in other segments going forward. Added to that, the improved performance of subsidiary that we spoke about. We should expect about 50-60 basis points improvement in terms of overall consolidated EBITDA percentage for the full year. And this will happen. This will be gradual. I mean, it will be an upward scale as we move through the year. It may not happen at the same level through the year.
Understood, sir. Thank you. And the last question is on our overall revenue growth. So if I look at for this quarter, the consolidated revenue grew by 5% odd. Obviously, if you can help us give some context between auto and other segments. And going forward, how should we think about revenue growth? If I understand or remember correctly, you talked about outperforming at least auto industry growth by one and a half times. And with these new segments like aerospace doubling in FY 26, how should our overall revenue growth look like, say, in FY 26?
Yeah. We should be back to our high teens kind of growth this year. That is what we expect that we should because that is what is the overall indications from our customers for both the SID business as well as the new product launches. So while we remain very optimistic that we should be very, very close to high teens towards our normal CAGR growth, which we have done FY 21 to 25, our CAGR growth is between 18% and 19%. So that is what we expect that we will go back to this year. And all the order book maturity as well as the new orders starting, everything indicates towards that. Of course, this again, as I said, that the first quarter, we still are looking at the impact of tariff on the thing.
Despite that fact, I am only saying that all these things have been taken into account while we say that the full year, we expect a high teen growth.
Understood, sir. Thanks. Thank you very much for that clarification. Just one last question. What would be our CapEx spend for FY 26? And would we be doing similar asset turns in the new CapEx that we have given? You have given a very good split in terms of where you are spending your incremental CapEx. So it would be helpful if you can just also talk about what sort of asset turns we should expect from this new CapEx that you have done.
So, see, a lot of focus and things are going on in ADS. The ADS plant's now that facility is also getting full. We expect that with the full facility being ready, our gross block would be closer to INR 300 crore in this facility, including our special process. With this facility, we expect that we should be able to deliver close to about INR 600 to 650 crore of revenue, which means that overall there would be an asset turn close to about two, but having said that, we are also looking at additional machining shop to be added into the facility in the coming years, maybe next year or so, which would mean that the additional investments would return a higher asset turns.
But overall, what I can say is we will, including Sansera Automotive and this thing, we will maintain that 1.35 to 1.4 asset turns overall. So that is what we should look at. And this year, depending upon the speed at which the things get normalized in North America, we expect anywhere close to INR 350 crore of CAPEX to be done.
Yeah. This will include the ADS CAPEX that we have.
Yeah. It is all full group. Yeah.
Thank you, sir. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Khush from Electrum PMS. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I have a couple of questions. First, can you give us a split between the revenue mix of tech agnostic and XEV in terms of our total sales? And second, sir, like you mentioned, we are expecting high teen growth. So can we get more granular data in terms of the growth that you are expecting segment-wise? And so lastly, my question is on MMRFIC. So what percentage stake do we have today? And what kind of order book or the total addressable market considering the products and the approvals that we get in that segment are we expecting?
Okay. So, in the first question, in auto tech agnostic and XEV, which contributed to 14.8%, 8.8% came from tech agnostic, and 5.9, almost 6% came from XEV. In terms of what percentage do we hold in MMRFIC post the CCPS conversion of whatever amount that we have already put in, that's about, I think, INR 40 crore. We should be closer to 30% of this one. While we have already said that we have the right to go up to 51% as and when the company needs infusion.
To be very clear, MMRFIC today, given the context at which we are today currently post the operations indoor, where you have seen a lot of technology that was used, this company is specifically in the midst of developing technologies for all those things what we saw, be it on seeker radar for very accurate striking missiles or EW radar system or loitering munitions or for that matter, the border surveillance. The company is working very, very closely with various developmental projects, which are some of them are in the testing phases, and these would be very, very strategic in terms of the technology that India is trying to indigenize. Currently, all these technologies, as I previously mentioned, are also being imported, and there is a lot of emphasis from the government side to indigenize these technologies.
The company is in the very advanced stages of proving out these technologies. Added to that, MMRFIC is also now engaged with a lot of grant and new development program, which includes iDEX programs and also for ISRO in various communication-related projects. We are very, very excited with this opportunity that has been there to work along with the promoters of MMRFIC to support them to develop these technologies in India and leverage that technology into the future.
Right. So if you could help with the revenue or the PAT that MMRFIC did for FY 25 and what kind of order book are they sitting on?
It's about INR 20 crore, approximately about INR 20 crore revenue with about 40% EBITDA. This is what was developed. But please understand, these are mostly coming from grant and developmental projects, developmental costs that they have received, and few of the ramping up of few of the initial orders. But when on a full-scale production, the EBITDA level could be much higher when the mass production starts. And we expect that these things would come into place towards FY 27 fully. That is where we are told that when we had invested, also it would take about three years' time for the company to get into the mass production.
Right, sir. Thank you for the detailed answer. Just for last question, if you could give more granular data in terms of growth rate, maybe segment-wise, that what will drive this high teen growth that we are expecting for the next two, three years?
See, as we said, our progress towards achieving 40% on auto tech agnostic, xEV, and non-auto business, and we are well placed to go into that, and if you really look at how we are looking at Aero, I already told that we are looking at doubling the thing. It is more than 100%. We expect that two-wheelers should grow between 10% and 12%. This is for us. This is for Sansera's revenue growth. We expect passenger vehicle segment to grow between 15% to 17%, and commercial vehicle will also do a double-digit growth. This is broadly what I can say.
All right, sir. Thank you for the detailed answers.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the order book. Notice that XEV and tech agnostic outstanding order book has come down to, say, closer to INR 3 billion, while we have seen some business getting commercialized there, and hence the order book has come down there. But the new order intake there seems to have kind of come off in the last few months. Is this just a timing issue, and we kind of see this coming back strongly, or are you seeing something more structural here on some of these segments that we are getting?
So xEV, of course, xEV and tech agnostic, I answered the tech agnostic part earlier because our total order book, if you really look at our total order book, which is currently 18, 511, almost 17% is xEV and tech agnostic. While what has happened is on tech agnostic, especially on aluminum, we have taken a very conscious decision of stabilizing the production because their cost structures need to be understood from both the sides. Otherwise, we get into a challenge of while the company also needs to understand more cost structures on these new technology components. So we would like to actually that is where, since whatever capacities that we have put in, we have full. In fact, I was corrected that the overall order book on aluminum is I said that it's around 400. It is much, much higher. It is closer to and in excess of INR 500 crore.
We have enough on that. We have consciously slowed down participating in aluminum forged and machined component things to make sure that we are on the right track. On the xEV segment, see, we have just commercialized. I mean, last year was a full year of commercial production for us with the North American supplier. And I had also said that there are several opportunities, but the customer was also very clear because the kind of this was our first exposure with them, and they wanted to see how from the development process, how well that we establish our supply chain and also perform on PQCDM parameters. Now that it's a full year, many RFQs are in discussion with that customer and also with other customers.
To strengthen this and also to work more deeper into the segment, we have actually appointed a very focused marketing team for North America who have been in the leadership role in the auto industry, based out of two of them, based out of China as well as based out of the U.S., to focus on North American-based customers, both on auto and non-auto, not the ADS part of it. That we have done in this quarter. While the efforts are on to increase our footprint, this tariff was also a barrier for a lot of decisions to be made because obviously, people would not like to decide on the uncertainty. But fundamentally, there is nothing to this thing. We look at this segment quite strongly, Mukesh.
Got it. Got it. And second question is on CapEx and the plants that you're going to start constructing in FY27 for the new land that you have acquired. Could you give some sense on the kind of segments we'll focus on there? Will there be a lot of ADS there, or will there be more of the forging, the regular steel forgings over there?
No, actually, we are also looking at various other opportunities to increase our value-added products in both auto and non-auto segments. I don't think ADS will not be there in that facility specifically because ADS, we are trying to consolidate. We still have some more places where we can construct another 60,000-70,000 sq ft. And beyond that, it only makes sense for us to go nearer to the customer where into the new aerospace park that is being phase one and phase two, not go towards this because this would be very far off. Whereas this specific facility will focus on new technologies, both aluminum and steel, mostly into auto, non-auto, non-ADS segment.
Got it. Got it. And just lastly.
Because specifically, this is the one large piece of land that we have for expansion. Like last time, I said that we have bought a Pantnagar facility, and this Pantnagar facility is to largely focus on low-cost manufacturing segments and focus on mass production or legacy components where we could use the cost base and leverage that. So we are going to consolidate that portion of business in Pantnagar. All other new businesses, which are driven mostly on exports and domestic side on auto and non-auto, would get consolidated into the new facility.
Got it. Got it. And just lastly, specific to this quarter, we've seen gross margins come off more than 200 basis points. Is there any pricing pass-through that's pending? I mean, if there was some increase in raw material or because the product mix looks largely similar when I look at it sequentially.
So at a category level, the product mix looks similar, but then at a component level, there have been shifts, which happens at times, and we've seen this in earlier years also. So this is, as we understand, quite normal.
Sure. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, please restrict yourselves to two questions so that the management can answer as many participants as possible. If you have any more questions, kindly rejoin the queue. The next question comes from the line of Varun Basrur from Julius Baer. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, you are.
Yes, yes, you are Varun. Go ahead.
Yeah, right, right. Thanks for giving me this chance. So just looking at the slide six, looking at the order book build-up, INR 500 cror, I believe, is moved to mass production. So does this mean that INR 500 crore is the peak revenue in maybe the second or third year, or is it the cumulative revenue?
No, no, no. This is the annual revenue, annual peak revenue, which will be realized by third year.
Right, right.
That's the general experience we've had.
Right, right. So what that means is that if I go back one year, that INR 600 crore that was moved to mass production, barring any difference, that should be essentially what will come in FY in 2027.
No, no, no. Portion of it will come in 2026. So large portion of it will come in 2026, and portion of it will come in 2027. So the maturity should happen by 2027. You are right. Full maturity should happen by 2027.
Okay, okay. Okay, great. Thanks for that. Yeah, my other questions have been answered. Thank you.
Thank you, Varun.
The next question comes from the line of Shashank Kanodia from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good morning, team, and thanks for the opportunity. So I just wanted to check on the gross debt number. So now, given the fact we have a surplus cash on balance sheet and the CapEx for next year, can we fund it through cash flow from operations? So do we see the gross debt coming down and probably becoming nil, or do we have to maintain, intend to maintain a mix between debt and cash on balance sheet?
We will continue some mix of debt and cash, mainly to have a better balance sheet support. Broadly, the debt that has remained is the long-term debt, which had in the main flagship company about INR 200 crore, and about INR 100 crore of debt is in the subsidiaries, which we have not touched. So this will get liquidated in normal course as per the standard repayment schedules, and you're right, we are generating a lot of operating cash. That should be sufficient for us to invest in the CAPEX, and we broadly should not require further debt to raise.
Sure. Thanks. And secondly, sir, in terms of your order book, the view that we have maintained is that it should hit the peak every three years' time frame, right? So from the current base, we should expect us to close something like INR 5,000 crore of revenues in FY 2028, right? Is the understanding correct?
Yeah, you are right. Yeah, normally.
It may not be FY 2028. It could be FY 2029.
No, what do you mean? I mean, additional INR 5,000 crore or.
Total.
The company reaching INR 5,000 crore? Yeah, yeah. FY 2028 is a very, yeah, very reasonable time frame to look at crossing INR 5,000 crore. Yeah.
Sir, lastly, on the raw material side, domestically, we've seen a decent price peak in terms of steel prices. How are we leveraging this, and is the entire RM pass-through to us?
So both in domestic, both increases and decreases are full pass-through. So whatever is the increase all these years which has happened, we have been given by the customer, and whenever the reduction happens, we'll have to pass it back. It's a two-way contract.
Okay. So sir, consequently, the mid-teens growth guidance that we give for FY 2026, does it factor in the ADS increase, or it's just pure like-for-like organic growth that we are seeing for our product profile?
No, there is no raw material effect that we have taken. Raw material is taken at a neutral rate.
We have not assumed any inflation here. It's the volume increase on the running components as well as the starting of new products like the order book that we said. So those two factors are there.
Sure, sir. Sure, sir. Thank you so much, and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks.
Thank you very much for all of you for taking time out and participated in the earnings call. We would like to emphasize the fact that while there were uncertainties surrounding the export market, we are quite confident that the company will be back to the normal high-teens kind of growth profile in this year, and you would also see a strong performance from some emerging sectors like ADS and others, so thank you very much again, and any questions that you may have on the follow-up questions, you could address it to our IR partners, SGA, or directly to us. Thank you again. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Sansera Engineering Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.