SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited (NSE:SBICARD)

Q4 19/20

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May 8, 2020

Thank you, Mr. Ray, for connecting us with the world of investors. Good afternoon, everyone. And on behalf of our company, SBI Cards and Payment Services Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to you all, and thank you for joining us today for our first investor's call after the company has been listed on March 16. A very, very momentous occasion for us, and we really look forward not only to add huge value to the company, but also to continue to interact with you. First of all, I hope that you all and your families are staying safe and healthy as we pass through the COVID-nineteen pandemic, which is unprecedented in nature and the nature is really coming back to us in its various form. Before proceeding any further, we would like to extend our heartfelt thanks and gratitude to our health workers, police personnel and all those who have been working relentlessly to keep us safe during the lockdown. This also includes the bankers who have been working tirelessly all through these days to ensure that the economy continues to roll. We are at SBICard are committed towards supporting our colleagues and customers while remaining financially robust so that when the crisis gets over, we are in a position to continue our sustained journey. And as we take you forward, we will let you know that what all the company has done. As I mentioned to you, this is our very first meeting after SBI listed on BSC and NFC on sixteen March twenty twenty. The IPO has been very significant milestone for us, and we thank you for being part of our journey. It is your continued support and the belief in the company that resulted in the issue getting oversubscribed by almost 26.5, a record of starts in the Indian courses even during the challenging times of COVID-nineteen. We saw extremely strong interest from non institutional investors, high net worth individuals, QIPs, retail investors and obviously the large investor that we interact with. As on date, SBI is a majority shareholder with 70% stake and Carlyle holds 16% stake in SBI card. Before I get into the financial performance for Q4 and FY 2020, let me take this opportunity to reiterate some key facts about SBI Card, its business and the environment we are in today. Today, SBI Card, you are aware, is the largest pure play credit card issuer in India. We have deep expertise in India's credit card market as a result of our more than twenty years of operating history. And during these years, SBI Card trusted and recognizable brand in India. According to RBI, SBI Card is also the second largest credit card issuer in India, both in terms of the number of credit cards outstanding and the amounts of credit card expense. We are also the largest co brand credit card issuer in India. We have established a proven track record of consistently generating profits over the last three fiscal years despite being in the unsecured market. According to RBI, we have grown our business faster than the Indian credit card market over the past three years, both in terms of number of credit cards outstanding and amount of credit card spends. This fact has been as it has been discussed extensively during our road shows that we went through in the last one year. We believe we have achieved this by leveraging our capital raising on India's favorable economic and demographic changes, including its strong macroeconomic performance and rising affluence, increasing consumer demand, rapid urbanization and growth of e commerce platforms. India's potential has been discussed at length across the globe. The story has been promising for the Indian economy, for the Indian credit card industry and especially for us as we were able to leverage the credit card boom and the overall digital boom that India witnessed in the last few years. The journey has been impacted, however, in the recent times owing to the global COVID-nineteen pandemic. Our offices across India have been closed, but our business continuity plan kicked in and all our critical processes are running as usual with our workforce supporting the critical business operation remotely from home. Our digital transformation, the journey after the GE exit exited through an investment in technology and also in the digital platforms over the years has ensured that our core services and operations continue running smoothly with minimal customer impact while safeguarding our employee data systems and assets. I think this has been absolutely phenomenal testing of our business continuity. But during this year, our data center had 100% availability. The authorization was very high in terms of all our critical assets. They continue to perform very, very strongly. This goes on to prove that the investment made by the company in the digital and the IT infrastructure has paid rich dividends, and the company was absolutely geared to handle these kind of eventualities. Significant actions have been undertaken to ensure business continuity after the COVID impact and the lockdown, customer servicing, safety of our employees and business associates to mitigate the risk. These are unprecedented times, at least in my lifetime, I've never ever seen these kind of changes or these kind of impacting the business. And we are continuously monitoring, evaluating and adapting to serve our customers in the best possible manner, and most of it is through the digital means and digital initiatives that the company has taken. Having said that, I would like to emphasize that SBI Card operates on strong fundamentals and the industry is poised for growth. I'm happy to say that our results have been very, very strong despite the provisions that we have made going to a strong business fundamentals. We are very, very proud of our business despite the fact that we are in unsecured lending. We operate under the India's norms, and our provisions are very, very high if you compare with any of the companies or any of the credit card issuers in India who operate on Indian GAAP. I think it is very, very important for the investors to understand that the comparison of the numbers are very, very difficult to make because we are on India's, but everyone Indian GAAP is on Indian GAAP, which is absolutely just 10% for the credit card, and you can have 0.4% on the standard asset. So let me actually take you through our financial performance for the financial year 2020, and there are also numbers that you would see that are actually there for the Q4 FY 'twenty. So I will start from the Slide number two. These are our performance highlights. All of you actually would have seen it. But our we have our profitability continues to be absolutely strong, very, very high profitability that we have continued to exhibit in the last few years. We are reporting a PAT of INR $12.45 crores, which is a growth Y o Y growth of almost 44%. If you include or if you actually take into account if you exclude the COVID impact, the profit would have been INR $16.62 crores, which would mean Y o Y growth of 92%. I think it just goes on to prove that the business models are strong and the company, with all the investment that it has made, the data analytics facilities and the data capabilities that it has, it continue it will continue to show very, very good performance. On the ROA and 8.527.4% ex COVID, it would be 7.235%. I think these performances are far better. Actually, I would say these are onetime measures. If the COVID was not there, it definitely would have been far better in the ROE also. ROE has been higher and ROE would have been even higher for us. It's very, very important to understand that we work on the very, very strong positive operating leverage with income growth of 34% and OpEx growth of 26%. So we have an operating leverage of almost 8%, which is a very, very strong indicator from our perspective in terms of the business that we own. In terms of the market share, I think it's very, very important to actually note that the LBI card has continuously shown strong growth both in terms of the cards in force and the spend. If one looks at from 2017, every year, we have had a graph which has been going up. There are very few in the industry who have been so strong and who have continued to show an upward trend both in actually cards and forts and spends. This year, our growth has been our market share is 18.2%. As all of you many of you are aware, we are the second largest player in the credit card industry. Our market share is 18.2%, and our growth has been 32%, which is far more than 24% growth that the industry has witnessed. On the spend side, we have a growth that is almost about 30%, which again is almost 5% more than the industry growth. So I think what we have done is to ensure that we are very, very relevant in terms of the sourcing that we do, in terms of the value additions that we do to the customers, in terms of the benefits that we bring to the customer. And therefore, the customer, despite the fact that we are a fee based credit card company, people continue to take our cards and continue to use our cards, and the spends have gone up to 70% to has grown by about 30%. The portfolio has been growing, as I mentioned to you, continuously. On the asset quality, you've already looked at it. I think we are reporting a figure of 2% over here. But I would say that this is a number that is one would have to look at it after the moratorium is removed and after the moratorium is over because the total impact is going to be felt only after the moratorium is over. On the if we assume that the business was as usual and we were on March 20, I think we would have continued to show a GNPA of almost the same or slightly lower than the numbers that were there in December, which we have reported it earlier. There certain measures that the company has taken on the asset quality, and these include the hardship tools that the hardship measures that we have taken on the retail side, on the corporate credit side. Again, have taken major initiatives to ensure that the credit card the corporate card portfolio remains barricaded from the forces of COVID-nineteen and the economic downturn that one would see. What we have attempted is to ensure that the portfolio remains very, very strong and robust over there. In terms of our liquidity and carve, we remain pretty well capitalized as well as in terms of the liquidity, we are significantly out of limits that remain with us. Our car has gone up to 22.4%, the Tier one actually showing 17.1 This would actually this definitely has been helped by the additional equity of INR $5.00 1 crore is actually we take it as INR $4.99 crore, which we issued during the IPO. If you go to Slide number three, one would see that these are just a snapshot of our performance highlights. The past has actually gone up by 44% from August Return on average asset is up to 5.5. Return on equity is down 28 down by 97 basis points. And I mentioned to you the reasons for it because it is ex COVID, and that is why there has been a little impact that it has come down. The car has again gone up to almost about 22.4%, and we feel that we are pretty well capitalized in terms of the requirement, which are there on the regulatory front. Our triggers and everything are continuously reviewed, and we ensure that the triggers are never breached in terms of the requirements. The CIF expense, I have already actually discussed with you. The receivables have been very, very strong. All through the years, the company had made major attempts to ensure that throughout the year, there is significant growth that takes place. If the company would not have done this and would not have actually ensured that right from April 19, there is good growth that is there in the receivables side, probably the impact of COVID would have been much higher. All the growth that was there also from April that has mitigated any adverse impact that the COVID-nineteen would have brought in. The GNPLA is at two percent, but I would again say that we are monitoring the position continuously. We have taken adequate measures. We would have been otherwise close to December 2019. And all that you will see, I think only a time would tell that we are very how strong our risk management tools are. Let me just move to Slide four. I just want to take you through the actually the initiatives that we have taken. This is a company which we have always maintained that it should be a digital company, it should be an analytics company. And the efforts that have been made are to strengthen the IT infrastructure, the digital push, the customer engagement that is there. So right from guarding that you look at it, the digital platform that we have created for ourselves, the intellectual property that we control, the eFly journeys that we have built, the UNO journey with SBI that has been built, these are all completely digital journey within the norms set by the regulators and the legal approvals that one would have in terms of PKYC, in terms of CKYC, in terms of VTO KYC, all these things have been taken into account wherever vet signature are required. But otherwise, if one would look at it, we are completely digital platform that exists with us. In terms of our engagement and engagement with the customer is very, very important from our perspective, both for portfolio management and for actually spend purposes, we have made major changes in the way we were operating. The digital we have enabled the digital payments. We have e cards. We issue cards on the Android phone. And actually, during the last two months, there has been a major advantage that we have been able to generate because of the e cards as the renewals, the lost card and many other times that you have to do where we have to send an embossed card, a plastic immediately or a metallic card immediately. We have been able to write on the e card, and we have been able to transfer the card to an Android phone immediately. The green card and the host card emulation are a huge step forward in terms of not only starting the journey for the transactions through the generation of PIN, but host card ambulation helps us significantly in the tap and go business where the customer can start transacting very quickly and in an environment where it is social distancing, people want to keep everything away. They want to either give exactly the change that is required for a transaction or probably just not even hand over the card. I think these are some of the things which are very, very significant on our purpose. I would like to assure all the investors and all those present and many other well wishers that the company is absolutely geared to handle these kinds of things and probably will bounce back with a far greater force in terms of the digital push that it is going to bring in. The data analytics that the users are significant, and it is just a few of them that we are mentioning, whether it is targeting offers that one would like to do in a specific location, we can give targeted marketing offers. Or is this sales location analytics, if a customer if one of our employees is working at some place, what kind of location based offers I can give to the customer and what kind of support I can give to my employee in terms of the engagement and the movement that we have. So it is inward looking and it is outward looking both. In terms of the digital servicing, our mobile application continues to be rated amongst the best in the financial industry and amongst the banks and others at four point seven and four point eight. We have actually now a powered AI powered which actually helps in servicing the customer accurately once and every time, and it gives the correct answer because at the press of button, our operator can invoke FAQ for that particular product or that particular query that the customer is asking. This chatbot, Vishty, is being extensively taken forward to start ensuring that it is far superior in terms of what it provides to the customer service agents and across the organization, whether it is employee, it is customer servicing, it is collection. Just as we go forward, you will see huge amount of changes being brought in. Our ARP ELA and RPA for efficiency, the chatbot ELA has been has seen a traffic increase of between 40% to 60% during these days, and this has been a boon for us in terms of the self servicing it does. And in fact, in a time where all our offices were completely closed and there was nobody to service on the IVR, actually by pushing these messages across our customers and asking them to use our facilities through the ELOC, we were able to enhance the capability of our agents sitting from home and they were able to service these kind of queries. Even if the chatbot, it is 97.5% right every time they were not able to respond, we were able to immediately respond sitting at home. I think what we have been able to achieve in terms of the digital initiatives is very, very strong. If you look at the work from home, at the time, about two months back, we were geared to service only 700 employees from working outside the offices. Today, but for the COVID, we have been able to extend it to 5,000 people at any given point of time. The VPN base that can accommodate 500, and we are only 4,000 employees. So you can very well see that what we have done on the VPN and the servicing that we have actually done it without compromising anything on the REST side, we have been able to provide uninterrupted services for our customers for all these forty five, forty six days that India is closed. Just jump to Slide five. I want to talk to you a little bit about the drivers. Some of you will find it a little repetitive, but the purpose is that people must understand at this time, these trying times, how actually the growth drivers are going to augment the capabilities of the company. We about 1.5 back, we were very, very strong in terms of the esourcing that we used to do. The esign that we were allowed at that time and the KYC and other not the video KYC, but C KYC and other things we are always capable of. However, we had to make some changes because of the environment, because of the some of the decisions that came from the judiciary. We are now back on the esourcing front because now more and more people are coming forward and they are themselves generating. And our systems are completely geared to handle the esourcing part, which is the organic traffic that comes either on our website or the inorganic traffic that walks into through our partners. On the open market, we are leveraging. I think it was mentioned with the Sales24, the location based and all those things. It is only this that actually helps us in moving people, especially in the green zones. We have started our operations in the green zone, and we are able to move people very dynamically control our workforce. On the BAMKO side, we have continued to actually show very, very growth numbers in terms of the UNO today. The UNO actually itself is generating massive numbers for us, and it is a result of the last about six months of effort that we have put in. And our intention was to bring in maximum amount of sourcing from State Bank of India through the UNO platform. And I think the advanced analytics, the AI engines, the machine learning that runs across the organization when leads are generated, all these have helped us significantly in terms of what we do it. Similarly, if you look at the in terms of the risk that we manage, we have taken massive steps in terms of micro segmenting the risk the portfolio. And this micro segmenting has been done from the perspective of acquisition as well as for the portfolio management. Because as we go forward from tomorrow onwards, it's actually from seventeenth or eighteenth of India opens up and the lockdown comes to an end, we should be in a position to actually very easily tell the sales force where we would like to actually put our force for sourcing purposes. I think the micro segmentation that we have done for acquisition will help us significantly. The same thing has been done on the portfolio side to ensure that the risk models are improved, the risk scores are improved, and we see to it that when we are actually going to give sanctions, there these are factored in very, very strongly. In the underwriting, we have started using machine learning for quite some time, and this has helped in few things. One of them, it adds speed to the whole process of underwriting automation because there is significant number of credit applications, which goes straight through process without the underwriter looking at it. And the second is that it also helps us in improving the score and seeing that what best we can do in terms of improving the overall underwriting analytics that we run. The robots, we have many times told that we have robots that are running. These on the risk robotics, we have two robots which have helped us significantly. One of them is on the transaction monitoring side, and this has helped us significantly in terms of monitoring, calling, talking to the customer, dynamically controlling the environment. And the second one is in the fraud control, fraud management. And fraud management, I think we are extremely the company feels very, very proud to say that our fraud rate is almost 50%, 60% lower than the industry. I think this is what we will continue to strive. We are not going to actually sit on our laurels. We will continue to work hard to improve every system that is working in the company. The advanced collection, the CRM that the company is setting up, this is going to be the last module comes up, one of the last two modules will come up in the next one, one point five months. However, the CRM modules have started going live from September onwards. They have helped us significantly in actually starting the operations very quickly. And why I say is because one is that the sales came to a grinding halt and the second is that the field collection also came to a complete halt. And it is at that stage that our CRM platform and advanced collection measures that the company has taken, these helped us in very quickly bringing in thousands of telecallers on the collection side. I think there's one thing that the company has always said that it is going to continue to invest heavily on the IT and the risk management, sales and the collection. And one of the reason is that it is very important to go and collect. This company actually has a very, very robust collection mechanism, and that is where we are able to ensure that we increase our collection machinery and collection amount that is there. Despite these trying times, we have been able to do a fairly good job. I would not say that it is the best would be, but there has been a significant improvement despite all odds. And we have the industry has been able continuously asking that what has PI Card has been able to do. There are many who come and ask us what can be done. On the technology side, the digital journey is a complete transformation that we are looking at. There is a remote workforce we spoke about and advanced analytics remains a significant part in terms of the way we are doing. In terms of the customer engagement, the robots that are working over there, the artificial intelligence that goes that we have created in terms of personalization, in terms of extending the radar, which is a very, very significant step that the company has taken for its retail customers, where what we do is that in case of any if you are stuck at some place and there is the through, earlier, we were only servicing our corporate customers. We have taken the radar to all our retail customers. And depending on the gravity or the security of the issue that, again, which is decided by the micro board, we would either send a message to them or we would ensure that it is actually somebody else, there's a caller who will call a customer. I think at the end of the day, it's very important for the company to ensure that the productivity improves continuously. And our sales force effectiveness, our workforce effectiveness, our cost control measures that we are looking at today, we are looking very, very closely at any of the cost control measures that the company can go ahead and work on. I think we have done significant amount of job in terms of the contracts, in terms of the rent that we could actually during the close down, what kind of negotiations we can do. And therefore, we feel that there will be significant amount of cost controls. We are not saying that we are going to cut cost, but we will ensure that wherever it is required, cost will be incurred, but we would not like to incur costs, which are absolutely of no use to the company and only going to eat away the profitability. Can you take to the next slide, Slide six? This slide actually covers on the left hand side is the business impact and the COVID responses. I think these are very, very important from the perspective to have an understanding of the results also and where we stand today. We used to do every day almost 10,000 accounts, every day 10,000 accounts with a peak level of almost 30,000 accounts. There have been days that we have been able to sanction 30,000 accounts also in one day. In the March, the COVID impact actually started till I think '16. We were also not that the day it was our IPO opened. We I mean COVID was a word, but it was not really nobody felt that there is going to be any such a big impact. But if you look after this after twenty years, there has been a significant drop in the number that we are doing on the accounts. We did 4,000 accounts per day from about 20 till the '31. And during April also, because of the number that we had, no new sourcing was done. There has still been some big curing that has been done of the accounts and we have been able to generate some numbers. And they are significantly higher than our competitors. In terms of the spends, till January, February also one really looks at it, we have given you the mid-20s number for INR376 crores of spend every day. It came down to INR256 crores, which is extremely low from our perspective. If you look at card transaction per card, spend per card, all of them all through the year gave very, very good numbers to us. However, in the second half, these have come down significantly. And April, it's initially in the few first few days of the lockdown, it did show a huge uptick, but then it tapered off for about seven, ten days. And after about April 10, we are again seeing a big uptick in the numbers. I'm not saying that they have reached the same levels, but this is what it is. What has happened there is that the repayments have been have come down because of the moratorium announced and many of the customers, transactors, the Volvo, the EMI, they have held back their repayments. However, we still actually were receiving INR $3.16 crores per day. And we were and there were no spends taking place and we were we had to actually continue to repay our debt that we had taken. And then treasury operations very clearly reflect that we have brought down our outstandings. Our unutilized limits have gone up. However, it is just a temporary blip. And we anticipate that within the scenarios that the company has built itself, the base scenario, the medium risk scenario and the severe scenario depending on the severity, the extent of COVID, the company should be in a position to respond very quickly with these available limits with the kind of process that it has. On the right hand side, you will see the COVID responses that the company has come out with. The moratorium as per the regulatory forbearance, the moratorium has been extended to whosoever wanted to opt in. However, anyone who actually defaulted, he had an option as per the policy approved by the company. They had an option of actually automatically getting into the moratorium. So there is a moratorium that is there, which is compliant with the Reserve Bank of India guidelines that have been circulated. The sales in banker, so the open market sales came down. But then on the banca sales, we have been able to start the operations now. The digital has come back with a resurgence, and we are seeing very, very good numbers. Our response has been that we have been able to immediately scale up the capability for digital sourcing and the e sourcing. On the risk side, I have spoken to you that there are a lot of hardship measures that have been taken. We have identified accounts. We have reduced limits. We have made additional provisions of $489,000,000 and these are all based on the India's norms and not on the Indian GAAP. And there would be a huge difference, one would look at it. I think the silver lining for providing this would be that next year, the company is fully prepared in case of any eventuality. I think that was the purpose to ensure that the company had the sufficient provisions to tide away the eventuality. And if everything improves, this will go back and this provision can either be used for other purposes or it will be written back. So I think the possibilities are pretty good in terms of the additional provisions that we have provided for the COVID. On the COVID on the collection side, I mentioned to you that the collections have come to hold. Heavy calling is doing pretty well. Very large number of agents have been are working from home. They're using our cloud based operations. We have masked lot of fields to for customer information, and they can only see very few information, the numbers of the irregularity and all those things, and they started calling it. I think the overall the strategy has been completely revamped. And as we will move forward during the year, we will you will see major changes or initiatives being taken in the collection strategy that the company is going to come out with. On the employee safety side, we have taken all measures. We have all our offices are closed, 12 offices. We have ensured that the employees are safe, their families are safe. We have a medical advisory. There is significant amount of messaging that goes through the e mails, through the WhatsApp to our employees. We are continuing to help them. We have ensured that the medical insurances that we have are completely active. If there are health, there are the HR is in a position to provide those health or actually garner support to the employees. I think these are our employees are one of the biggest asset of the company, and we remain completely committed towards our employee safety and health considerations. IT and infrastructure, I think, remains very, very strong. We will continue to build. And I think we will also ensure that these are rolled out even at a faster pace than actually it has been done till now. Liquidity is strong. I mentioned to you, it's not only actually the unutilized limit that we have, but we also have options of increasing it. We continue to be a AAA company, and we'll ensure that your company continues to have the highest rating that is there. Please go to the next slide. This just gives you I just want to spend much time, but you can very easily see that from 16 to 20, every year, we have been able to increase our market share, both in cards and forks and in the spends. We will continue to work towards these things in building the customer's confidence, the trust, the transparency that this company brings to the customer and the value addition that it does to the card by bringing in offers, by bringing in relevant offers, the location based offers, these are brought in such a way that the spends continue to remain to increase without overleveraging the customer. I think that remains very, very important objective of our risk management and the spend and upselling and the cross selling that we do. The next slide actually takes care of the accounts growth, and you would see that we have shown a growth of 20% from $2,800,000 Accounts in force have gone up to 3,400,000.0 Accounts new accounts have gone up from 2,800,000.0 to $3,400,000 That is a 20% growth. However, if the COVID was not there, we would have grown by 24% because there is 1.3 lag accounts more that we would have actually very easily converted into the which are what was the pipeline and what we would have sourced into accounts. I think we probably could have shown even far superior results than what they are. On the channel split side, if you look at it, we have always maintained that we want an absolutely fantastic balance between our banker, SBI as well as on the banker side and on the open market, which is absolutely matching. Open market has come down very, very strongly in terms of what it does, and it has actually from 44%, it has climbed to 50%. The kind of opportunities that open market has created for itself, the kind of digital push that they have brought in, the kind of emphasis on the co brand that it has, which remains one of the cornerstone of this company, all these have helped it to regain very, very strong numbers. And this is a mix that is absolutely what one would look at it. But going forward, we'll have to see that the social distancing, the opening of malls, railway stations, airports, common places, it's I don't know how much impact it can actually bring it. But our intention would be that whenever it opens during the year, we try as much numbers as possible. I mentioned to you earlier that the green zone resourcing has started. We have mapped all the 700, 800, seven fifty districts of India zone wise and wherever it has been opened up, our business has started and we are back in. We have ensured that employees are safe, our offices are sanitized, there's proper fumigation, there is everything possible that we could do because that is very, very important from our perspective. On the CIR, we crossed the 10,000,000 mark last year somewhere in December, January, we had crossed it. So we have grown by almost 28%. On the channel wise split, it is 38.2% for LPI sourcing, which is actually the sourcing on the left hand side, what you look at is actually the accounts. On the right hand side is what the sourcing took place. So that is so the open market sources more application, but the sanction is slightly lower for open market, while Banka because of the way that we set up, because of the protocol and the information that comes on the web application form that is coming on the bank card is far superior and far better in terms of the parameters that it captures that the conversion rate becomes higher. Next slide, please. This is our portfolio growth that we have actually seen in terms of the spend, the 27% growth. This is after the lockdown, there was for one few days, I think 2728, we saw huge shopping taking place on the stores where people were going and we were actually bringing buying lot of stuff for inventory purposes. But subsequently, it has completely tapered off. So this year, we have actually come out with a 27% growth. This growth comprises of retail growth, which is at 39%, the cross sell, which is at 11% and then you have corporate. The corporate has shown a minus 4% majorly because of few reasons, and we can discuss it at any given point of time. The spends per card has actually, again, taken a little later. It's all to do with the COVID impact that it has. There were huge there was a big campaign that was to kick off somewhere around March, which have resulted into big gains for the company. And because of the lockdown, we were not able to do it. In terms of the receivables, we actually, the receivables has grown by 30%. What has happened during the year, especially in the last ten days is, was that the transactors were not able to or any old cardholders were not able to spend, so the receivables did not grow, while the repayment continued to come. Otherwise, we would have seen even a far better result than the 30% growth that you see. The receivable per card is at just 2%. This again would have shown a slightly better number, so we would have not had the COVID. I don't want to ascribe everything to the COVID impact. The company has done significant work in terms of ensuring that it is these numbers are on the positive side. If we would not have gone especially in the initial phases right from April, these numbers would have been very, very adverse for us. Next slide. These are our financial results. If you look at, the income has gone up by 34%. The finance cost has gone up by 29%. The credit cost has gone up by about 69%, operating cost. I think very, very important thing, if you look at the bottom of the table, the cost to income has come down significantly. I think this is very, very important from our perspective because all through, we continue to work on the cost side also while the company was growing even. I think our numbers are even better than the December number that we had showed and we had mentioned in our various returns that we have submitted to the regulators. I think what we will do is we will continue to ensure that we control the cost in such a way that the business is never impacted. The gross NPA, 2.01% ROA, do you think we have already discussed? The earnings per share is at 13.3%. On the past, if look at it, we are showing a profit after tax of $12.45 crores. This is a 44% increase over last year. However, if the COVID was not there and we would not have made this provision, the profit would have been INR $16.62 crores. This is about INR $4.17 crores after the above. What you see below is INR $5.79 crores, which is actually split into INR 90 crores of late fee reversal that we have done based on the regulatory forbearance, the regulatory package. And the impairment losses are INR $4.89 crores that we have created. I think instead of losses, this is what I think they use in the terminology with the provisions that it is there. So it is and if you INR $5.79 crores, the impact on the pad would be INR $4.70 crores. And we our growth would have been very, very good this year. I wish that the COVID had come after March. The next slide, please. These are we have actually mentioned to you, but the interest income has gone up. This is actually the we are showing it to you. At 7.2%, BR, the total income has gone up basis points. For the finance cost, it comes down to $2.00 5,000,000 And as you go down, actually, the ROA comes down to 7.2 ex COVID and ROE ex COVID with 35%. I think these are the numbers that we have. There have been changes that the company has been able to garner. One of them is on the corporate tax purposes and the other is actually we had we rolled back about almost 162 crores of the rewards provision that was there. These two have also helped the company to achieve these numbers. Next slide. If you look at the revenue composition, 52% of our revenues come from interest income. It has gone up to some extent. 19% continues to be subscription based, 7% is subscription based and instance is about 19%. The spend based is from 23% to 22 These are numbers that are little, I would say, I mean, if you really remove the COVID, these numbers would have been almost the same. We have been able to maintain the composition of the revenues, and we have been able to ensure that the revenues continue to grow. The revenue from operations have grown by 33%. Other income has grown by 65%. The finance cost and interest. Another important thing that one needs to see on this slide is the interest yield has gone up from 21.622.7%. This is something that we can talk in case of question, we can talk about these things. The cost of funds have gone up to some extent, which has more to do with the opening, closing and lot of other things. And the net interest margin has improved from 15.5% to 16.6 I think these are some of the things that we are actually looking at it, and we feel that we will be continuing to work and ensure that it is the numbers are good. Next slide. I want to take you through the cost of funds, the financial leverages, the cost of If you look at the borrowing mix, we have 59% of the bank line. The commercial papers were 15% in debentures. We continue to scout the market and see in case we ever we have call option on the debentures. We are prepaying if it is a high debt instrument. And wherever it is possible, we are using the limits to ensure that these things continue to be one second. Yes. Just a little check, Ray, whether we are audible. We received some messages that the sound has dropped. We can't hear you, sir, but there seems to be a slight beeping sound while you speak every few minutes. Possibly, a few few things pressed on there. Okay. Real, I'll I'll pull the mic closer to me. Is it slightly better now? Absolutely. We can hear you loud and clear, sir. Let me go ahead. Alright. Okay. Okay. We'll ahead again. We're also switching off some of the background air conditioning sound. We are a triple we are a triple a company, and we continue to maintain our liquidity and overall strength of the company, and we will look at whether it is cost of funds, whether it is cost funds and leveraging that we have. All these, we are ensuring that it remains very, very good. Equity infusion and the net bond funds, they went up and the NEA came down, which has resulted into this leverage financial leverage actually showing a little bit of a lower number. Next slide. This is something which is very, very structural liquidity. One second. Okay. On the structural liquidity part, we have ensured that no negative mismatches are there with us. There is a low robust ALM, there is positive cumulative mismatches, there is no negative INR372 crores of sanction lines available with us for drawdown, which would mean that if we want to hit the ground, we can hit the ground running and we have all the limits that are there. I think these are some of the important things on the structural liquidity part. We will continue to monitor the position and we'll continue to ensure that the structural liquidity is continuously maintained. The ALM is always ALM and the ALM and the mismatches, all the matches are within the bounds that have been set up by the company and the regulators. If there are any, we always ensure that there are triggers in place. We are managing it properly. And all of this is reported continuously to the Reserve Bank of India, even including when the announcements were being made, the structural liquidity was being continuously monitored by the regulators and they were in continuous dialogue with us in terms of finding out whether there were any problems on the liquidity side. Next slide. This is, I think, a very, very important slide from the way the operating leverages have been have improved. If you look at it from 3%, we have actually reached almost about 8% of the operating leverage, positive operating leverage. It just means that our income stream continues to grow faster than our operating cost. And this is what we want to continuously do where we are actually income streams are higher continuously and we remain operating profit. This is going to help us significantly to improve our business. And it just goes on to prove that business is moving in the right direction. Cost to income is therefore improving for us. And these are some of the important learnings and these are some of the important thoughts that I would leave with you from this slide. Next slide. As we have spoken about the GNPA, our PCR remains at 67.2%. It is the provision coverage is high because we are part of the Ind AS. If we would have been in Indian GAAP, only 10% is required to be provisioned. So it would have been very, very low in terms of the Indian GAAP. I think this India is going to help the company in ensuring that you have sufficient provisions sitting over there for any eventuality if it comes. In terms of the gross credit cost, the impairment losses and the gross credit cost, the gross credit loss percentage has gone up from 6.2% to 9.1%, an increase of $288,000,000 due to do with the provisions. The net credit cost has actually increased to 7.7%. We will take you in detail as we go. I think there is going to be a lot of questions, and we want to take you through during those questions also when we look at these kind of things. Next slide. This is just a shareholder summary. Think you can go through it. Many of you most of you would have downloaded it. I don't want to take you through these things, but these are the top 20 shareholders of credit card. Slide 18, which is actually the historical numbers. We have given all the historical numbers to you, and we'd like you to actually move forward into Slide 19. This, again, I think we have these are the numbers that we have already discussed with you, and that brings to an end our webcast in terms of what we wanted to present, and we would be very, very happy to take questions from any one of you. Thank you very much for actually listening to us. And I would request the operator if you could open the lines for us. And what we will do is that we will ask our senior management team is also sitting over there with our sales, marketing and the risk rep and the Chief Financial Officers, the Chief Operating Officer sitting over here to answer any specific questions that you would have on the performance of the company in terms of how it has responded and all those things. So I request Mr. Ray to kindly open the chat. Sure. Yes. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Session. We'll take the first question from the line of Arav Sanghvi from BT Capital. Please go ahead. Yes. Hello, thank you for taking my question. I had a couple of questions. My first question being that you have a significant portion of the spending, roughly around 25% coming from corporate. So could you give us a breakup of the receivables into corporate and individuals? And what are the risk written characteristics that you see in the corporate portfolio? The corporate receivable is negligible. It's I think as on '31, it is less than INR 100 crores, if I remember it correctly, 53 crores, 54 crores only. So the corporate is negligible. What we have also done is wherever there was a possibility of any increase or if vendor kind of a credit card being used for vendor financing, those also we have converted into T and E. So I think what we have done very, very strongly is to ensure that these corporate cards are used only for the purpose for employees and others and not used for actually either buying assets or buying inventory or things like that. Sir, just a follow-up on that. There was some kind of a INR 92 crores write off, I believe, on the corporate portfolio. Could you enlighten on what was that? I would not like to take you through because that's part of that was also there in the DRHP. You can actually go through it. It was the write off took place before September. So it was at Cox and Kings account, so that has been written off. There's a huge overall banking exposure that was there. We also had this INR92 crores, and you can find those details over there. All right, sir. So my second question is on the recovery rates. So I just wanted to know what are the recovery rates that you see on this revolver portfolios, which ultimately fall into the NPA category? Request from the CFO to respond. See, all the accounts eventually, before they get pushed out, become revolver. And from a past experience, we almost recovered 35% of it within the first three years. Sorry, you're going to speak louder, I think, David. Could you hear me? Yes, yes. Got it. So 35% is like what we can expect on the additional NPL as well, that might arise? In the first three year itself, and then there are recovery operations are ongoing after that as well. Got it. So my just final question I wanted to understand on the sourcing. So in terms of the direct channel and the open sourcing, what are the cost and risk differences? Like you have been growing pretty fast in the open channel in the last one year, I believe. So I wanted to know what the cost structure is there and return objectives? I think we do not come out separately for our open market as well as on the banker. Those numbers are not disclosed by us. However, if you really look at it, the number, the difference could be anything between INR eight hundred to 1,000 actually between the two. Fine, sir. That's it. And it's not because there are costs involved, somebody sitting at the airport, very expensive space, you are at malls, you are at stores, you are at theaters. So obviously, there is a cost involved for that purposes. However, for the Bangka channel, most of the sourcing is coming from State Bank of India, which does not charge us anything for our employees to be there or our non full time employees to be sitting in the branches, and there was a charge involved. So there is a little difference in the way the business is done. All right, sir. Thank you so much. That's it from my side. All the best. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Singhal from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. This is Anuj. So firstly, on the costing side, if you can just give some color on what kind of flexibility do you have on the costing side in case the spends were to weaken in this year? Like you mentioned, the trend in the March is very weak. So what kind of flexibility do you have on the costing side, especially on the sales promotion? Should we anticipate more sales promotion for you to incentivize spends? Or we will see a decline there and other cost levers as well? Actually, we have it goes with some kind of a percentage of the total spend that we would have. And all the cash backs are on the spend based cost that we have, those are always capped and they will continue to be capped. It is not that it is the amount that has been fixed, is actually the percentages that we have that we fixed and we allow expenses only to go up to that level. So we are always tightly controlled in terms of the cash back, the spend based offers for everything that we do. We'll continue to do it. We are also looking at opening up of new categories as we see as the business improves, as the digital push comes in. In fact, actually, we feel that this could be probably even a far better moment than demonetization in terms of conversion of cash into digital. And if that happens, I think we probably in the next three, four months, assuming that the COVID impact, the lockdown is removed on twentieth and life comes back to normalcy in next three months, we still feel that there could be a big uptick into the spends. But however, it's very difficult for us to say how it is going to pan out, what is going to happen. And I definitely am in no position to give you any kind of guidance what would happen unless we know exactly what is going to happen. What we have done is that by creating these additional provisions, we have ensured that the company is barricaded from the losses in case they come up. And hopefully, if the collection machinery goes up, really fires on all cylinders and the credit culture that exists in India, there could be significant amount of recoveries that would come in. Even the numbers that we have shown in, out of the numbers, especially the transactors who had actually opted for the moratorium, within the first ten days itself, 25% of them have come back and have deposited their money in April. So I think it is we feel that there has been an uptick from almost about INR370 crores that I showed you per day spend. We were down to almost about INR100 crores, and then we are back at almost about INR180 crores to INR100 crores. I think we are seeing that the business will improve, and we will keep the spend based cost under tight leash. Sir, is there some value to other fixed cost, maybe FY 'twenty fixed cost, what kind of number we can look at? Is there some color you can share on that? Yes. So see, in our business, it's very difficult to categorize some of the cost as fixed cost or a variable cost. If you look at it, the costs are some of the costs are definitely variable, the ones Mr. Pusad mentioned, cash back, etcetera, because they're linked to the spend that we're generating. Most of the other costs would either fall in the bracket of fixed or semi fixed. Like one could say that our sales force is variable. But you look at the situation right now, even though we didn't source too many accounts, we still had people on our workforce because one is that the business will come up and then we will require them. So all the costs all those costs cannot be termed as variable. They are in the semi fixed region. Fixed costs are very small for us. These are in the nature of projects or expenditure already done, depreciation coming of the rental, etcetera. That will be in the region of 15% to 20%. The semi variable cost will be in the region of almost 45% to 50% and the balance of the cost, 30% to 40% is in the variable nature. Understood. I think one of the important thing to remember is that because the Government of India mentioned that you need to continue to give full salaries, we have continued to ensure that those salaries are paid, rents are paid wherever we had taken despite the fact that there was no business that was taking place. However, there is what we have not paid any variable pay over there because there is no business over there. So obviously, there is going to be shift in the overall business mix, income mix, cost mixes that you are going to see. And I think by September, you would see a complete picture of how the business is going to shape up. Understood. Sir, my second question relates to the sourcing mix. So we have seen a decline in sourcing from SBI, which has been increasing for the last two years. Now it's back to a 50% kind of run rate in FY 'twenty. Any reasons you can share for that, I don't think there has been a decline from SBI. It is the open market, which has it is a contribution that we are looking at it. The open market has been able to build its co brand franchisee very, very strongly. It has invested heavily on the digital side. It has augmented its number on the POS side. All these are tele. They have consolidated all the tele operations from about 56 tele calling centers to 12 call center and bring has brought in major productivity changes in the way the business is done. I think that is one of the most important thing. In terms of the business that we do with SBI, it will continue to show very good growth. In fact, there is a strong possibility that the Bangka business can become even stronger than what it is today because there are a lot of things that in case I cannot build the open market because of the spacing, because of the social distancing, because of the lockdowns, I definitely will have to look at options of going ahead with the banker. So reallocation of resources will continue to take place. Wherever we feel opportunity, we will move people and ensure that these numbers continue to show us very, very good growth. Understood. And sir, lastly, can you share some color on what kind of spends will be discretionary in nature for you, discretionary related to maybe travel, air travel or eating out or dining? Any color you can share on that? I think as far as the travel entertainment is concerned, it's almost to a grinding halt. There is I don't think that these spends and others are going to take place in those categories for a very long time. There is a lot of expense a lot of these also come in, business travels that come in. I don't think that a lot of people are going to travel now. The new norm is going to be through the VCs, through the Microsoft team, through all these Cisco, Webex and those kind of the WeChat. So I think it's going to make a big difference in the terms of travel. Entertainment, I don't know when the hotels and the restaurants are going to open. But that, again, is one category we don't anticipate that for at least about six months till September, these are probably going to go going to open up to a significant level. I think what we are looking at is actually creating new categories. I think these new categories are more important today than how do you create. We are seeing a major change in the way the people are paying their bills. It may be small value utility bills, but these are very, very sticky for our customer. For us, it helps significantly because once you start making your utility bill payments, you actually start using the same card at many other places. I think that's one thing that we are seeing that there's a major shift over there. Online education is what we are seeing again. There's a big change that is coming into online behavior, the customer is. We are seeing that the payments will move maybe from the cash to the deal. I think that's another major change that will come in. The issue we I think we did not show the slide. The TAP and GO, which is actually the NFC enabled terminals, Visa have the Government of India or Reserve Bank of India came out, they've increased the limit to INR 3,000. The Visa has said that all terminals in India will become NFC enabled by thirty first March. I think we see more and more small value transactions also taking place through app and go. Now these are very important for a transaction company. Me being a transaction company, I would like you to use my card more often than actually doing it only for a large value transaction. So I think those are some of the changes that you are going to see as we go forward. We are monitoring each and every category. We are creating new categories along with the partners to see to it that the business actually captures some of the cash also into the digital side. Okay. And sir, any numbers you can share? What kind of proportion will this contribute We are not sure any numbers because we do not know the impact, the severity of the COVID as of now. There is a complete lockdown. There's very little that is happening on the POS terminals today. Most of it is coming actually from the digital channels or from the online spend that is taking place. So very difficult to say as of now that what is going to happen. Probably in next few months, if the lockdown goes away and there's more information available on the severity of the COVID or the normalcy to return, we would be in a position to tell you that what best we can do in terms of the spends behavior that the customers are going to exhibit. Understood. And the last one bookkeeping question, what kind of percentage of us type for moratorium for us? What kind of? What percentage of customers have applied for moratorium on the credit cards? As of thirty first March, I think eight lakh customers had applied eight lakh 8.4 lakh customers that applied for a modem, which is auto enrolled. Is auto enrolled or you actually opt in, so either of the two. But I also told you that 25% of those have actually come back and repaid in the first ten days. Understood. Just think about 10% of our total accounts in force. I mean, if you have 10,000,000 accounts, about eight ninety million approximately, those have used it. And this is something the first rush when the Reserve Bank of India came in, many of them said that, okay, we are going to do it. The day they realize that there is actually they are just postponing the repayment with the interest and other fee added with possibility of another fee added to it, they come back immediately and repay it to you. Okay. And this is at thirty first March, 8.4 lakhs? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Subhranshu Mishra from BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thank you for the detailed presentation. My first question is what percentage of customers did we have lien on through our banker channel on the stable account? We have 2,000,000 accounts that have come through the process. It is not a Lian that you enter, and I don't think Lian would be the right question here because I would not have the Lian numbers. That is a secured card, and we don't actually believe in my software. I'm not talking about the hardware, but we believe software. I understand that what you are saying is. So what I'm saying is that out of about 4,000,000 bank customers that we have, almost 2,000,000 have come from the Project Shikhar. Now all those accounts definitely have an auto debit for us. Within the remaining $2,000,000 also will have some auto debit numbers with us. So there is a significant number where auto debit is there. These auto debits are actually being invoked unless the customer says comes back and says, no, I want to actually use the moratorium and please do not generate the auto debit through the ECS or the bank transfer directly through a branch which is situated within the compromises. So is it a fair understanding that of these 2,000,000 customers, we have visibility on that cash flow? I would not say that I have a VI. They're outside the bank. The bank does not share any information. I would not say that I have a visibility. We have no visibility. We are outside the bank. Right. So the bank doesn't share the core banking data with us. Right? One second. Actually, your voice was breaking, if you could. So the bank doesn't share the core banking data with us. Is that a correct number? No no organization will share it. Bank is very, very clear on that count. Sure. Sure. And my second question is if you can explain me the collection infrastructure you have. How many people, how many agencies, what kind of incentives are given, whether it is on volume or value? That would be very helpful. So we have two or three kinds. We have these fee collection agencies that work with us, and we have teleconners who work with us. All these put together would be significant. I would not have the exact number, but it would be anything between 4,000 to 5,000 either of feet or whether it is a collection agent sitting over there or telecallers working over there. I think these are please let me know if there is if these numbers are okay with you. But these are I want some more details. Are these accusers agencies, are they paid based on volume or value? Field collection agencies would be exclusive for us. We work with them in terms of what is required. They will work with us in terms of what is to be how the recovery will take place. They are the people who would go, and it is very expensive to be to go to a residence to go and collect, which is completely at a standstill. Many of them we have converted into telecallers as of date to start calling and they can actually take and interact with them so that and then we then send them information how they can remit the money either through our mobile app or through the bank channel, through Internet banking, through the UNO applications or wherever they can actually use those facilities. And sir, if they are paid on volume or value? So let me just add that. There is a telecollect setup and there is a fee collection. Fee collection gets paid on the basis of the value that they collect and there is a percentage. There is a grid. And our contracts with them are exclusive. Our grids are exclusive. They may be working for someone else also, but our contracts and our grid exclusive for our this thing. And similarly, we have tele calling setup, which exclusively run for us. They contact customer on our behalf and get the money collected. Understood. And just a last question, sir. If you can please enlighten us on any kind of negative category of customers that you do not cater to, which are in your negative category or any negative geographies that you do not cater to? Yes. You would always have a mix. You definitely would have a type of customer that you would not like to onboard. It is a actually, overall, it's it's a overall grid that you look at it. There is information coming from the credit bureau. There is information that is sitting in the organization, where we do a redo. There is application score that comes in. There is surrogate information that comes along with the application, there are risk matrices that have been designed. All these put together will come. Yes, there are actually some scores that you would not like to do it based on the performance. And that is actually nothing but flowing from our portfolio. We know that there is a moment the system does a deep loop, it knows that in this particular type of customer or this type of category or this type of geography, there is very high risk sitting over there. And these will be taken care of by all these things. Sure, sir. And just one last data keeping question, sir. How many cards have they decreased the credit line out of the cards and ports that we have? Total number of cards that we have already decreased the credit line. We can't give you any specific details on this case, but let me assure you that wherever required necessary credit actions have been taken REPRESENTATIVE:] by us. We can't give you a specific detail. There's two things I want to add, and you have to remember that, that it's a question of hardship tools that any organization is going to exercise. At any given point of time, it is not that this is the first time that this is happening. You would always have, based on the performance of an account, you would have your hardship tools being invoked, whether it is actually stopping to give an offer, whether you want to actually make more calls, certain type of transactions being declined. Now these are some of the measures that you would start with. Reducing the limit is the last option that you would have or canceling the card is the last option that you would have. So what you would do is that you would put and that is where we do that micro segmentation that we do. And this micro segmentation will actually decide that where he is sitting and what kind of hardship tools or hardship measures I will take. These hardship measures are very, very important. So it is a continuous exercise. And I would say that every organization there was a news item that some banks have done it, all that. But I would say that it is something that every credit card company would always do to protect itself. I understand that. So it's not just maybe quantum just give a yes or a no, if you've done it only. So these are it has already been done by the organization. It is recurring it's regularly that we do it every week or every day also, we might do it. That is where we have also put in some bots that we do. We put our we have put our bots in terms of the transition monitoring. I did mention to you when we were talking about the digital push that we were looking at. This is where these things trigger, and this is where every day, every POS machine, every transaction that is taking place is being monitored every day. And every time I'm going to actually profile him, this is the way we have monitor it. Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Puthari from Alfa Equity Advisors. Please go ahead. Sir, can you tell us in terms of you mentioned that you have drawn three scenarios. This particular type of customer or this type of category or this type of geography, there is very high risk sitting over there. And these will be taken care of by all these things. Sure, sir. And just one last data, two thing questions. How many cards have they decreased the credit line out of the cards in force that we have, total number of cards that we have already decreased the credit line? We can't give you any specific details on this case. But let me assure you that wherever required necessary credit actions have been taken by us. We can't give you specific details. There is two things I want to add, and you have to remember that, that it's a question of hardship tools that any organization is going to exercise. At any given point of time, it is not that this is the first time that this is happening. You would always have, based on the performance of an account, you would have your hardship tools being invoked, whether it is actually stopping to give an offer, whether you want to actually make more calls, certain type of transactions being declined. Now these are some of the measures that you would start with. Reducing the limit is the last option that you would have or canceling the card is the last option that you would have. So what you would do is that you would put that, that is where we do that micro segmentation that we do. And this micro segmentation will actually decide that where he is sitting and what kind of hardship tools or hardship measures I will take. These hardship measures are very, very important. So it is a continuous exercise. And I would say that every organization there was a news item that some banks have done it, all that. But I would say that it is something that every credit card company would always do to protect itself. I understand that. But if it's not this will be quantum, just give a yes or a no, if you've done it. But these are it has already been done by the organization. It is recurring. It's a regularly that we do it every week or every day also we might do it. That is where we have also put in some bots that we do. We put our bots in terms of the transaction monitoring. I did mention to you when we were talking about the digital push that we were looking at. This is where these things trigger, and this is where every day, every POS machine, every transaction that is taking place is being monitored every day. And every time I'm going to actually profile him, This is the way we have monitored it. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Pattari from Advair Equity Advisors. Sir, can you tell us in terms of you mentioned that you have drawn three scenarios and what are the various assumptions and what impact it can have on the provisions and credit cost under each of the scenarios? That is number one. Number two, what I wanted to understand that if I look at your ALM zero to thirty days, So basically, when I look at size and suppose that entire goes to the moratorium, so does it mean then you have to create and suppose there will come slippage out of that, then how basically the things will work out in terms of the provisions? So if you can give some color on that? The scenarios have been built based on the assumption and the information that keeps on coming from various sources. On the one was on the lockdown, when the lockdowns will be lifted, how many actually cases are there, what is the severity of the COVID, how many districts are opening up. So we have actually come out with three models. The base model is there, if we were assuming that if 'seventeen, the lockdown will go away, then when we can start business as usual. It's all based on algorithms that we have actually built and we have written that every department is following that. Whether it will be if the business one is that I can resume the business. But if we are talking about business as usual, when the business as usual will start is what we are building in. So these are important things from our perspective of ensuring whether how quickly we can resume and how quickly. This is equally important from the cost point of view that how many people would I need, especially the NFT. When how many how quickly can I deploy the people? All these things are built into this to come out with everything. On the ALM, I think Nalin will reply to you, but I can tell you one thing that the ALM is based on the policies and all the mismatches that are there that is within the boundary that has to be kept. You can have a monthly, but at the quarter end, you need to have a it should be fully matched. All these things that are laid down by the regulators, those are all those adhered, and we have never ever reached them. But I think you have done anything specific, but then you can reply. Can you go ahead with the question, please? Yes. My question is actually different. My question was based on the various scenarios what you have worked out, what do you think is the estimated provisions and estimated credit cost under Scenario one, two and three? That is my first question. So no, that will be a forward looking statement. We are not giving such information. Internally, the company has worked out various scenarios, and we have prepared our business plan accordingly. Depending on where what kind of scenario we face, we will act accordingly. Can't give you any specific number in terms of what is the reserve in situation A, situation B or situation C. Okay. I think we have replied to that. Thank you. Yes, sir. The next question is from the line of Sveta Dakhdar from Prabhuda Kailhadar. Please go ahead. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. So I have a couple of questions. So when you mentioned that eight lakh customer base has opted for moratorium, was there any kind of situation or any past payment history or any eligibility criteria for credit bureau score taken into consideration? Or was it that every proposal that came forth There are two things. It is not opt out, it is opt in. There are two opts. One is that if you read the circular instruction or BI circular, it was very clear that it has to be offered to everybody. So how do you offer it? One option on the side that you could opt in and say, I want to exercise this opt in moratorium. The second one was we also gave it within the policy. It was compliant to the Reserve Bank of India. And it clearly says that if you do not pay me in March, April, May, you will automatically be enrolled for the moratorium program. So the INR 8 lakh constitutes these two numbers. So I would not say how much would you like to do or what you want to do it. And out of that, almost two lakhs have also repaid it. They felt it necessary that there is no point continuing with it. So this is opt in, plus people who have not repaid it automatically when the cycle comes and the door due date comes. Okay. So the product changed in this month of April. So what is the Miraq number in value terms as on today in the month of April? As on today, ma'am, we'll not be able to give you. Thirty first, yes, there are numbers, and I have given you those numbers of INR 8 lakhs. Sir, one more thing, just taking cue from the previous question. So I understand you're not making forward looking statements. But what was the thesis or the scenario analysis and the cost versus assumed for this INR $4.90 crores kind of FTE provisioning? I think I'll let Apurna respond. Apurna, can you respond to this INR $4.89 crores? The CRO will say because it was based on the ECL and whatever the stages in India and all that, she will she should be in a position to actually respond to it. Good evening. Am I audible? Yes, you are. Okay. Essentially, what we have done is just like Nalin had mentioned earlier, we have created scenarios and we have estimated what the impact of either so there are essentially three variables to these scenarios. It is the extent of lockdown, what is going to be the social distancing norm that will exist, for how long it will exist, what will be the period by which the economic recovery will come back. So these are the variables that have gone into it. This we have estimated what our potential losses could be in '2, three, four, actually we've mentioned three, but we have done a lot more of analysis and we have come up with what our peak losses could be as per an internal scenario. And we have provided in this overlay for our peak losses that could happen. And like Thur had mentioned earlier, the whole idea of making this provision is I should be able to handle any losses that will come over the next twelve months largely on account of the COVID impact. That is the basic principle behind this four ninety. Does that answer your question? Yes, partially. So would you like to quantify as such attribute numbers to any of these variables? Yes. So see that's again an internal information about how we have come up with. See what will the lockdown be that public information, right. So we have used all public information and we have made some amount of estimates internally. I won't be able to share with you exactly what is the scenario because that is more privy to internal. But we've come up with a scenario that we think is representative of what will happen to our business over the next six to twelve months. Okay, okay. So secondly, coming back to you, talking about VC variables. So if I look at spend per average card that has been declining quarter on quarter, the Q4 number has been down. So we had seen only luck of ten business days as far as Q4 quarter is concerned. But going forward, even you have admitted the fact that the economic activities and the business process is going to be pretty stagnant. So how do you see and just another variable which you mentioned that there will be lot of small value transactions that will be going up, but discretionary led high value transactions are definitely going to come down. So these both points put together, how do you see the receivables and spend spanning out in next first half of this year? This is Girish. I'll answer your question in two parts. The first question that you asked around the spends part of it, if you go through the presentation on Slide nine, it was very clear that the FY 'nineteen spends per card was around close to INR 142,000 and FY 'twenty is INR 139,000. The difference is only 3,000. And this is after we have added a very large number of accounts, new accounts into the portfolio, okay? So if you look at the number of new customers, which has been added and digested and those customers' maturity grids or graphs and still the number the spend per SIF is at 3,000 less. And if, let's say, COVID was fifteen days later, we would have seen maybe a marginal growth in these numbers. In fact, on the retail spend per card, we were seeing a growth till January till February end. And it is in the month of March that we saw a bit of decline because of this reason. However and this is after the large amount number of new cards, which has been which has come into the denominator for this year, okay? The second part that you asked on the receivables. Receivables is made of three components. There is a component, which is a term balance, which is EMI based balance, where some people have taken moratorium, as you are aware, and those balances will be payable from the month of June onwards if the moratorium does not get extended. That balances continue to go up. There is the second part of this overall receivables is the revolver balances. These are the balances where people who pay at least the minimum amount due, which is a 5% and then continue but have not paid in full. And they revolve for, let's say, whatever period that they are comfortable with. So those balances are also constant. The third part of the balance, which is the transactor balance, it is there where we have had an impact from in the month of March also. The reason being that people were unable to spend, people who were transactors were unable to spend in the month of March, at least in the last eight to ten days. Online had stopped to take orders. There were some spurt in the essential commodities, which was nondiscretionary item. But travel, railways, everything, those things, as our MD sir mentioned, had come to quite a halt. So given that these two are the this is how the so this is how the movement of receivables is. The end the total sum will be a mix of these three movements. Okay. So but I apologize, I'm harping on the same thing again. So again, because of lack of any discretionary spend going forward, at least for next two months and very minuscule incremental expansion in number of cards, also corporate spends coming down. So how do you see the spend per average card moving going forward? Because that can also have direct bearing further on your receivables. So in the first place, how do you see the spend number looking like would look like? So as was said by Nalin, we will not be able to give you any forward looking scenario. However, I can give you some indicators. We, SBI Card, caters to mass and mass affluent customers, a large even as a mix of our customer this customer profile, a large part of their present spend is also nondiscretionary. The categories like departmental stores, grocery, utility bill payment, fuel, insurance, all those categories are continuing. There are, however, some movements because, for example, things like utility bill, all the departmental store and grocery thing, a large have now majoritarily become online rather than an online pause. We still have lockdown in continuation. After 'seventeen, as was being mentioned, it will take some time for some of these things to stabilize to be able to come to the rightful conclusion. So in same period, there have been a lot of competition flaring up, especially now, be it Amazon Pay or many others who have been wanting to pick up this particular pie. So how do you think because everybody is looking for such grocery or online and utility kind of payments pie. So what's your thought process there? At this point of time, we are in touch with almost all merchants. At this point of time, the issues are larger. The issue is that for these guys to be able to deliver to keep their employees safe, So most of the companies at this point of time are trying to, yes, competition is important. But at this point of time, delivery to the customers is more critical. There are some offers that we are also running. Other people will also run offers, those offers will continue to do. Until this point of time, as you have seen in the data, we have been gaining market share over year over year. And the way that we are positioned on online as well as our relationship and the focus, we believe that, that will continue to happen. So merchants and network partners are very much there. They would continue the tie ups as well as MDR and those things will stay, right? So that's a positivity that is coming already, right, from their side? Yes. Okay. So just last question. You just mentioned we focus on mass affluent customer base. So do you have, say, any cap on the credit bureau score below which you would not like to dilute something on those lines? Would you like to quantify that? Credit Bureau score is at any given point of time. When we do a Swiss scoring, we actually factor that is one of the component that comes in. And I mentioned to you, we use another product, which is called a credit vision, which gives the trending information about you. So and then you have the application score that comes in, what is where you are working, what you do, what's your average salary, a lot of things, lot of stuff that goes into that. Thirdly, it is a D tube score that you look at our own portfolio and then you arrive at it. So obviously, one would be careful not to do it, but it's not always that you will not do anybody. Sometimes a customer can move towards a secured category, and he says, I need a card. So it is always CIS scoring is a combination of lot of element, and the risk model is extremely proprietary for any organization. Okay, sir. Okay. That's all from my side. Thank you. Thank you very much. Before we take the next question, we'd like to inform participants that in order that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two for participants. Should you have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. So one of the reasons that we like to mention it in over here, 07:00 to seven p. M. Is the curfew, and many of us have to return also. So that's why we have kept it up to 06:00. People will take almost an hour to reach back or in case there are some drivers who have to again go back. So we'd like to actually keep it up to 06:00. Absolutely. Yes, sir. We move to the next question. The next question is from the line of Parag from White Oak Capital. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you. My question is, you said around 8.4 lakh customers have opted for moratorium, if possible, if you can quantify the amount? That's first. Secondly, among the people who have taken moratorium, is it possible to give some sector kind of a color that how much of them are salaried, self employed or within which sectors like probably if you can highlight on the sector part that would be helpful? Thank you. I think Apurna will take you through. There are several some Apurna, you can take through on this. Sure, sir. Can you hear me, Prakash? You are loud and clear. Go ahead. Okay. So in terms of moratorium, I think like we mentioned, we did look at the data by salaried, self employed, category of company. There's a fairly equal distribution. So it is not like only the worst customers went out and took the moratorium. In fact, I think like Mr. Prasad had mentioned in his presentation earlier, We actually also looked at it from a credit perspective and a large majority of customers who had taken moratoriums actually had a very good clean credit history in the preceding twenty four months. So in terms of numbers, there are no real trends about whether any particular geography has taken a higher take up rate of the moratorium or any particular segment. It's been fairly accessible across all whether it was geography, whether it was the kind of customer. In fact, like I mentioned, the quality of customers who've taken the moratorium actually is better compared to the overall portfolio. If I was to rank them by distribution, the moratorium customer distribution is actually better. Okay. And in terms of amount, ma'am? So we put the amount as about close to 3,800 stores with the balance of that 8.2 lakh customers. Of March, we had mentioned that it is about 8.2 lakhs of customers who have taken MORTORium. The balance of those customers is about INR 3,800 odd crores. Okay, thank you very much. You. The next question is from the line of Kaushal Kedya from Avenue Partners. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Can you give some breakup on the customer profile as to how much percent is salaried and self employed? In the DRC, you had mentioned 87%. Is it still the same? Or has there been some change in that? I think the mix remains almost the same. Three months would not change a portfolio at the large of 10,000,000 customers that we are at about 85% salaried. Okay. And can you please tell give us some light on what exactly are corporate spends? 25% of spends come from corporates. What exactly is that? And you mentioned that you to discourage them from spending on inventory. So what is spending on inventory with credit cards? I think We are actually, obviously, we would respond to the risks that are sitting over there. So we are converting some of them into T and E. In fact, actually, I think all of them have been converted into T and E. So we are very mindful of this fact. We have gone back and all our customers have been very, very they have understood that there is a risk sitting over there, and then they would like that they are fine with ensuring that it is not done through the credit card, and they would use the bank lines and other things. As such, the demand is also not there much. So they are not as in the manufacturing activity has come to a grinding halt and all that stuff. So presently, we have converted all of them into T and E. Thank you. So T and E is travel and entertainment, Which is basically given to the employees who can use it for whatever purposes other than for personal use purposes. Vandish, would you like to throw some light on the corporate card? Yes, yes. Sir, I can do that, okay, because I think there were two questions on corporate cards, and I hope I'm clear. See, typically, what happens is in T and E cards, the cards are carrying smaller limits individually, but a larger number of cards go to a corporate. While, yes, at this point of time, the travel and entertainment usage will be less, But as it comes back, that usage picks up. Now wherever we hold our security, solid security from a corporate, like a fixed deposit or a bank guarantee, and it's a secured exposure, we give a little bit more flexibility to the corporate to use the card so that the market opportunity can be also tapped to some extent in the business. But when it comes to unsecured exposure in the present times and the way the things happen in this coming period, we have derisked the portfolio by restricting the usage to T and E, which is by the individual employees. So you always balance out the spend versus the risk that you take in our corporate card portfolio. While we have grown these spends and even in this environment, we'll find out opportunities to grow these spends. But at the same time, we want to keep the risk very low in our corporate card portfolio. So I hope that answers the question and throw some light on it. Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to participants to please limit your questions to two per participant. The next question is from the line of Ashish Sharma from Inarm Asset Management. Please go ahead. Yes. Thanks for the opportunity, sir, and congratulations on a good set of numbers in a tough macro environment. Just on the spend part, could you give a split of spend between retail and corporate? Or should we assume the ratio, the mix remains same vis a vis FY 'twenty? That would be my first question. And second would be in terms of if you have to split the spend in terms of contribution in the first half and in the second half, usually what is the split like? That would be the two questions. So the spends on the retail and corporate mix has changed. It has grown got more in the favor of retail than corporate because this year, the corporate, as I was mentioning, is our opening address. Retail has grown by close to 39%, while the overall, we have grown at the rate of around 27%. So the retail portion of the overall spend has increased. On the mix that you are asking on the first half to the second half, so on a normal year basis, if it is not this year is a we don't know because the pandemic is there in the first half of it. But otherwise, on a normal year basis, typically, the spends are 45%, 55% or in that ratio. The next question is from the line of Svetir Jain from ANS Wealth. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. First of all, I would like to congratulate the whole team of having such a spectacular performance in spite of the COVID-nineteen. And sir, I have two related questions with respect to the impact of COVID-nineteen, which we are facing at an overall level. So first question is the INR $4.17 crores impact that we have mentioned. So I wanted to understand that impact. Can we assume that this is just the last ten days impact that we have faced in our profit? No, it's not we haven't taken the impact the last ten days. This is a reserve that we have created for future impairment that may come in the next six to twelve months. That's what the CIO had mentioned earlier. Okay, okay. Sir, and a related question to this. To the credit cost, we've seen an increase in the credit cost. So do we expect the credit cost also to be at such high levels the next couple of quarters? So if you look at it, the credit cost right now has gone up because of the provision charge that we have taken extra. That is what has impacted the credit cost. Depending on how the situation pans out, in the future, if our results are adequate, then I would say that the credit cost will not be at this level. It will come out because right now, it's impacted due to the high reserve that we have booked in the March numbers. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Jitesh Sherath from SBI Securities. Please go ahead. Jitesh Shalak from FBI Securities. Please go ahead with your question. There seems to be no response from the line of Jitesh Shalak. We'll move to the next question. Next question is from Nishanth Shah from Macquarie. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi, sir. Couple of questions. Could you talk about just backward looking, what is the kind of like card customer mix that you have? Like say, many of within the salary segment, what would be the employee categories? Like say, a CAT A or CAT B employee versus, say, an SME or a startup kind of employee, That kind of mix, if you can give. And like similarly, within the self employed segment, how many like what proportion would it be more than 50% within the self employed that are salaried sorry, that are self employed professionals? That's the first question. If you could give some like some bit of backward looking color on the customer mix. Pardna, could you just respond? Yes. So we've not put those numbers out there. So I'm just going to give you, Nishant, some approximate numbers. Like we've been mentioning, our salaried portfolio is about 85% of our portfolio comes from salaried and within that more than I would say 60%, 65% of that is actually a CAT A and a CAT B kind of companies. And when I say CAT B, CAT B essentially refers to government. So a significant majority, almost 60% out of that 85% would actually be coming from the CAT A and CAT B. And the balance are, of course, the CAT C and some other retired and pensioners, which is a very small proportion. That's where it comes from. Now in terms of self employed, see this is information that's collected on the application form. So to that extent, it's not really verifiable in that sense. But even there, we are about 60%, which would be stating themselves as professional and the valid 40% would be businessmen. Now what exact business is not something that's actually available. So I wouldn't want to put that out there, but that's the overall landscape. Sure. And just like just one clarity here, when you say 60% of salaries, you mean 60% of 85% or 60% of So let me put it as a total. Let me put it as a total, okay. Out of 115 at Stemps and Lloyd, okay? About 24 would be CAT A, okay? And about 31, 32 would be CAT B on the balance sheet. Okay, perfect. Yes, that's very good. Second question is more on this moratorium side. Among these customers, could clarify like whether largely this is a moratorium the moratorium availed is on revolver loans or largely on EMI loans? How exactly is the split over there? Nalind, do you want to take that or do you want me to take that? Go ahead, Parna. So Nishant, there's no on a card view, there's really no difference. So it's not like there's an EMI loan and a card loan, okay. It's at a customer level. If I am a customer who has a retail spend as well as an EMI, then every single month, the view that I am charged and billed for is essentially 5% of my repay balance and the EMI that's payable in that month. So if you take moratorium, you take moratorium for both. So it's not EMI special different from transactor or the revolver balance. Does that answer your question? Not entirely. So basically, was just wondering, like, would know what the split is for this entire INR3800 crores, what proportion pertains more towards EMI and what proportion pertains more towards a transactor or a revolver, correct? So could you like probably split that out? So I don't think it puts that split out there. So we are right now the 3,800 like I said is across those customers and I think we've the split is not different. Whatever was there earlier in terms of our asset split, that split is still not very different. So I don't think we should break up this 3,800 between EMI and retail and all that because it doesn't really make a difference to how you're going to look at that customer. Like I said, the customer is on moratorium and he's taken the moratorium for his entire balance. Thank you. Due to time constraints, we'll be able to take one last question. We'll take the last question from the line of Dwajar Gada from DSP Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Yes, thanks and thank you for the detailed disclosures and presentation. So I had two questions. First one was for Nalin. What was the acquisition cost per card in FY 2020? And the second was for Aparna. On the you mentioned that you've taken peak delinquency to determine the provision number. And earlier in the call, you mentioned I think someone mentioned that 35% is the recovery rate. So would that if I gross up that, is that the peak delinquency that came out in your stress scenario? Just trying to confirm these two. And one more thing was on the collection capacity, what's the kind of increase that we've done now versus pre COVID, some quantitative numbers around collection capacity? You can go ahead with the cost of activation question. Yes. Like I think previously also when the RHP was there, we had given a sort of an indicative number that they stay in the market range. But to give you a very rough approximate range from a past data standpoint, depending upon quarter to quarter movement of business because typically a quarter last quarter normally we do well. Had COVID not been there, we would have added some more cards. In that case, somewhere approx $3,000 to 3,500 acquisition in terms of the sales cost or the channel cost is approximately in that number. So I can give an indication of where it generally stands, which comprises our manpower cost, our incentive for people, the rentals that we pay for various things that also includes the variable payouts, some of the payouts that we carry out. So ballpark benchmark number stays in that particular reference range, fairly consistent across the full quarters of this year moving around that particular range. Yes. So for this year, it was still in the 3,000 to 3,500 range? Yes. So I'm saying approximately in that range. I can give you a range. It keeps on varying depending on circumstances of a particular month. So I can give you an approximate range for the number. Sure. Okay. On the other question? Para, you can answer the other one. Sure. So I'm just going to take as you discussed a little bit of a repetition, Tawan. I'm just going back to what the logic for arriving at the reserves are. And the answer to your recovery question is actually different, okay? So the question earlier was what is the kind of recovery we make out of accounts that get written off? And to that, Nalind had replied that 30% of what we write off normally comes back in three years, okay? That's a separate piece of information. What is the logic that we use to arrive at the COVID overlay provision that you're seeing here is, like I mentioned earlier, we looked at we did scenarios using a number of macroeconomic variables and variables specifically related to COVID. So things like how long will the lockdown be, how long will the social distancing be, what is going to be the kind of recovery period, when will economic recovery or activity be back to where it was prior to the COVID. And then we estimated the impact of each of these on our activities, on whether my collection capability, on how the spend will move, how the balance will move. So we estimated the impact of each of these individual variables and then we looked at what would be my peak losses over the next twelve months, okay. Now obviously, this is to some extent an estimate. The principle behind the overlay provision was I want to reserve today as a business to save myself for any future losses that would arrive out of the book that I have today. Okay. So it is just an estimate of future losses basis these macroeconomic variables. Now does this take into account some amount of recovery? Obviously it does, because if I'm going to estimate losses in the same period, I've actually estimated how much of those losses will I be able to recover within the same twelve month period or not. I have not considered either losses or recoveries beyond the next twelve months. Does that answer just one follow-up to that. What's the most critical variable in your sensitivity model? So I mean, it's not like there is the model wouldn't really be a robust model if I had any one variable, which was having a higher basis. So the basis is across I mean, we looked at almost eight to 10 variables, and it's not like any one variable was the most significant one. Understood. And just the last one on collection capacity where we are today versus pre COVID? I think like Gheeraj, would you like to take this question? Go ahead. No, would like to. You can take this question? Yes. Okay. I can do that. The Chief Operating Officer is going to take that question, Mr. Richpal. I just want to tell you one thing that this provision that you look at it, and there are various things that all of you have been talking about it, I think it's very discretionary and it's a prudent proactive measure that the company has taken. Please look at it from that perspective that whether the company was strong enough, it is capable enough to come out with these provisions and to see to it that the profit also remains very, very strong. And these provisions, don't consider it as actually all that risk sitting in the organization. It's not a risk if everything is sitting in the organization. It's a prudent step that we have taken. It's a proactive measure that we have taken to see to it that the provisions are there in case something happens. Nobody knows that how severe the COVID impact is going to be. So we could have just gone ahead and said that, okay, this is what is the provision. The regulator is saying, please only provide 10% of the provision for these accounts where auditorium and other things have been given. We could have very easily gone ahead and done that and come out with a small provision. And we could have shown a good result. But the point is, I think it is to be understood that the company felt that it is important, prudent and a good management practice to provide for these provisions and to ensure that in case there is there could be a risk that may come up at some stage, you are you have taken care of it. What it will also do is in this future year, next year, you would have assuming that it is fully utilized, at least this year's loss will not be actually consumed by the profit that is going to come up. I think that this is what is very important from our perspective. We are on India. As I mentioned to you at the beginning, we are on India. We are not on as such, we hold high provisions because of the accounting norms that we have, and that is what we would like to continue to actually be looked at. If you I mean, if you look at it from that prism, you would find that it is an absolutely forward looking statement that this company has gone ahead and made this provision. Simultaneously, the profits are even better than December numbers that we have. I think, Rishpal, if you could just I'll just give you an overview of our collection capabilities. Look, if do something, that will be great. Yes, thanks. Okay. Okay. I'll just give you an overview. Our collection basically, workforce is comprises of three components. One is our permanent employees, permanent resources. We have basically about over 700 employees who are permanent employees of SDA cards. Then we have tele calling centers. These are vendor resources, basically vendors who have been onboarded for tele calling, that is calling customers for collections, collection activity as well as for recoveries. We also have agency. And these agencies, vendor agencies are located across length and breadth of this country. We have almost close to 300 agencies which are on our roll. And these telecallers as well as the field resources of agencies would are in the range of around 6,000, 6,500, and they keep varying and they keep changing from month to month as and when we know we keep onboarding vendors as and when we require. Now as it was shared with you during the presentation also, due to COVID, our field activity has come to a complete halt at the in the initial stages. So what we have done, we have enabled all our permanent staff, even while they were not telecallers, all across to bands and across to seniorities, all our staff, permanent staff have been enabled for tele calling from home as well as the tele calling centers, which also, again, because of the restrictions on movement, physical movement, these tele calling centers of vendors had also got shut. So we had used dialer solutions, cloud dialer solutions. We also had used our CRM platform that we call Collections24 for enabling the entire tele calling workforce of these vendors to call from home. Additionally, these agencies also have tele calling staff. So those tele calling staff as well as some of the field staff of the agencies have also been enabled to call from home. And because these are the times when some of the activities are slow, we have also roped in cross functional resources for calling activities. So and this is what we will continue to evaluate. As and when we need more people, there are there is bandwidth available within the company. And then there's a flexibility of on boarding more people. And as we speak, let me tell you, like Sarad mentioned earlier, we are looking at activities zone wise in the green zones in this country of the two eighty or close to 300 agencies. 80 agencies have already opened shop, so physical activity also partially has been restored. Okay. I think that should bring us to an end of this investors' call. I just want to reassure everyone sitting over there that the company has solid business model. It has a very strategic outlook in terms of what it does. It obviously, the provision that is there should not be mistaken as if there is a problem sitting in the organization. It's more of a proactive measure taken by the company to ensure that in case there are anything that could actually have taken care of it. We could have very easily, I think most of the banks or other competitors would have gone ahead and done those bare minimum that is required. We felt that it was important for us to actually come out in a more prudent way, especially when the ECL could have been pretty low. So I want to assure you that the digital push, the co brand relationship that we have, the banker relationship that we have, the risk modeling that we do, the new generation modeling that we do, the machine learning and the bots that we have in the risk department, the data that feeds the spends, all these put together are very, very strong in terms of what we are doing. And the rest department has come out working very hard to come out with a model, which should actually take care of the prudence that we have done it. Please be assured that there is no such big risk sitting over there in the organization. So thank you very much. I'd like to thank everyone to be there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. On behalf of SDI Cards and Payment Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, you may now disconnect your lines.

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