Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Q3 FY23 results conference call of Sheela Foam Limited, hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services. We have with us today Mr. Rahul Gautam, Managing Director, Mr. Rakesh Chahar, Whole-Time Director, Mr. Tushar Gautam, Whole-Time Director and Chief Executive Officer, India Business, and Mr. Davinder Ahuja, Group Finance Controller.
As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. Should you need assistance during the conference, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchtone phones. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Bhavika Choudhary from Emkay Global Financial Services. Thank you. Over to you, ma'am.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. We would like to welcome the management and thank them for this opportunity. I shall now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks. Over to you, gentlemen.
Thank you, Bhavika. Am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Thank you, Bhavika, once again, and thanks to Emkay Global Financial Services for hosting this earnings call. A very good afternoon to everyone joining us today. It is my pleasure to welcome you all to this conference call for Q3 and the nine-month end date of this year, this financial year FY23. Let me just begin with by saying that both FY22 and FY23 were full of extreme turmoil. We know what happened last year. We closed downs and then reopening up.
In such conditions and such varying conditions, actually, corresponding quarter comparisons become very distorted. The nine months to nine months, this being a little bit a longer period, is a better reflection of the performance. I'm happy to share that your company has registered a growth, albeit a small percentage only, and that too primarily on account of retail inflation.
I'm also satisfied to share with you that in spite of continuing fluctuations in raw materials, we have seen sustained expansion in gross margin. However, at the EBITDA level, the numbers show a sub-10% performance. This is primarily on account of some expenses, which can be termed as one-off, however, have to be adjusted to the expense side according to the index. There was an increased advertisement to restart post-dull or closed COVID period.
There were some exploratory M&A expenses, which are, again, one-off, but however, as for any index, they have to be accounted for. There were also some non-cash mark-to-market forex losses, which are clearly one-off and also notional, and they are non-cash. To account for all this, we would see that we are reasonably above the previous period.
The COVID period had also put a stop to all kinds of market surveys, researches, etc. As soon as it got over, the industry restarted the process, and the findings were very encouraging. The shift from unorganized to organized continues, and this was after the research was after the lapse of two and a half years, and this is very encouraging.
Second, the market share of your company, Kurlon brand and the other brands, considerably increased, and it further consolidated its leadership position. I'm also happy to share that the subsidiaries of the company in Australia and Spain are continuously increasing their market share as they grow. Both have different realities, however, they are performing well. Both have expansion plans and projects which will come on stream by the middle of this year, and this will further strengthen their capacities and strengthen their position as far as the local market share concerns.
We also recognize that Sheela Foam is not only an economic organization but also a social organism, and sustainability is of utmost importance. I'm also happy to share with you that we are on track with our ESG or sustainability programs, and our BRSR report is under preparation for this year. With this, I hand over to Bhavika, and she will be happy to answer the questions that may be raised. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will begin with a question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Nihal Mahesh Jham from Nuvama. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Good evening to the management, and thank you so much.
Nihal, you'd like to speak a bit louder?
Yes, sir. Am I audible?
Better. Thanks.
S orry. My first question was, sir, you've alluded that there was a base impact because of COVID last year, but if we compare the mattress volume to pre-COVID, there is a slight fall which has happened. J ust wanted to understand, this is purely because of the current sentiment or there has been a shift in demand between quarters because of certain mattress-related dates or any other aspect that you may want to highlight?
I must confess that the voice levels which are coming to me are rather low. Let me just repeat the question. You're saying the mattress volumes are lower, and the question is that is it because of the market sentiment or is it because of any shift in the consumers? Is that correct?
Yes. Consumer sentiment or generally, there has been a shift in the wedding dates also seen between Q3 and Q4 if there was any element of that element. Because I'm comparing our volumes to pre-COVID, not from last year where you highlighted maybe there was a COVID-based impact. J ust comparing it from that perspective.
N ihal, thanks for the question, and I must say that the audio is not so clear. However, let me just say that yes, there is a little bit of a drop in the mattress volumes as far as we are concerned. However, when we compare it to the kind of surveys that, etc., that have been done, it appears that there is some changes in the market as far as the size of the market is concerned. But this is purely on account of inflation, and if there is any aberration or any apparent aberration that is seeming there, it's only temporary, and it'll shift and go back because the trends are very clear in the research.
Understood. I f I could ask that, have the trends in the month of January improved or currently still seeing the uncertainty sustained? If you could just give some sense of that.
They have. I don't know how much can I say, but they have drastically improved. That's all i mean, the month of January has just ended, but the situation has considerably improved.
M y last question was on the gross margin side. You've highlighted that there has been a significant reduction in both TDI, specifically in polyol. W hat proportion of the old inventory did we end up using this quarter, and how much of an impact that had in terms of the limitation in the gross margin improvement?
I think I mentioned that even in the quarter that's gone by, the gross margin has definitely improved. However, when we come down to the EBITDA level, there is a bit of a drop. This is on account of raw materials fluctuating, however, moving slightly downwards. When we come as we move forward, the same trend is continuing, and I would say that even if we account for the opening stocks that we have, there would be a positive impact as far as Q4 is concerned.
Just to clarify, t he current gross margins, in a way, more or less reflect the current pricing in both the raw materials?
That's right.
Perfect. So that's very helpful. Thank you so much, and I wish you all the best.
Okay.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, to ask a question, please press star and 1 on your touch-tone phones at this time. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. I'm audible?
Yes, you're safe. Thanks. Go ahead.
This is Ritesh from Investec, not an individual investor. A couple of questions. F irst is, if you could detail what is our strategy to recoup volumes. B asically, what is the end customer or the end channel that we are looking at basically to increase volumes? That's one. And what I'm referring to over here, it's something beyond EBOs and MBOs that we are already doing. That's the first question.
S econd question is an update on the expansion plan along with the timelines for Jabalpur, Spain, and Australia. You did indicate middle of this year, but some specifics would help. Third question is on inorganic growth. Basically, what's the status? First is on the growth engines, and it has four buckets: Mattress for Every Indian, the exports run rate, Railways, the current run rate, and online channel, the current run rate. I have a fifth question which is on new initiatives. Would be great, sir, if you could please help with this.
T hank you, Ritesh i think you've gone through the entire portfolio that we have. But let me first begin with the first question, and that is on the volumes part of it. I just want to say that Sleepwell, we have been operating through the EBOs, and the footfalls, etc., have been challenging as far as in the recent part as far as concerns. We are well entrenched on that. Footfalls, as I said, if I look at January, have begun to increase. That will automatically increase the volumes.
T here is an expansion plan for the EBOs, and that's almost about 400-500 extra outlets per year. And that's also on track. I must also add that, of course, Sleepwell was not selling through the MBOs, which also continue to be in large numbers. We addressed those markets via our other brands, which is Feather Foam and Starlite.
Now that we have reached out or spread out to all of them, our real good push as far as MBOs is going to happen, and we expect that the first initiative of expanding EBOs and pushing through the MBOs both will increase our volumes, and that's our strategy for that. As far as Australia and Spain is concerned, l et me take Australia first. Australia has already been having almost a 10%-12% increase both in its volume as well as its top line.
And the reasons for that, as we see, is people spending more and more as far as home improvement spends are concerned. We expected that COVID would finish, and this will also slow down, but it has not because people are not traveling so much. People have money in their pocket, and people want to. Besides this, it's also the imports that Australia was having.
With the sentiments like Australian-made, etc., those imports have been impacted, especially imports from China, and there were also some imports from Europe. We see that as a very good sign. In spite of a mature market, this expansion will continue to grow, or this sentiment will continue to grow. On our plant, which is being set up in the second foaming plant, which is being set up in Adelaide, that has already been installed, and it will be commissioned by the first week of March.
We will start then getting more aggressive as far as the market share is concerned w e believe that there is a lot of imports and other things which can be sort of gathered by us and therefore increase our presence.
Spain, I have said this many times before, we are a very small part of that large market, only 1%, and therefore that even though the European market slumped by almost 25%-30% during the Ukraine war or continuing even after the Ukraine war, in our company, we've just a 10% drop, which has also from January onwards begun to pick up. In fact, the entire order books in January and February were completely filled up, and in February, continue to be filled up.
We have expansion projects there where the current capacity will be increased. T oday, what we are doing is about 13,000-14,000 12,000-13,000 tpa . This will go up to about 17,000 tpa . A gain, because we are a small part, we expect that all this will be consumed market.
Returning back to India, you have also said about the inorganic part of it. I think the explorations continue, some encouraging, but eventually, these things happen when they have to happen. But I can only say that there's encouraging. On the initiative that Sheela Foam was doing like a mattress for every Indian, again, we have started to receive the machinery which was delayed on account of the war and before that on account of COVID.
We started receiving that w e expect somewhere end of this year, that project in Jabalpur to begin to get installed and then commissioned soon thereafter. Railways has been good progress. I think railways have also now clearly stated that the product that we supplied them is the preferred product for making the coaches, and the consumer is increasing month after month. Anything else? I don't know. You have asked many questions R itesh, have you missed out on anything?
E xports was the other one, and online channel. I f you can please help us, a run rate or something for exports or retail and online channel, basically the online channels.
R un rate on railways is about INR 8-10 crores per month at the moment. And exports, I would say that there have been ups and downs for a couple of reasons we have talked about in the previous meetings. One was that the infrastructure is coming up to speed as far as the supply of orders was concerned. And the second part is that the U.S., which is the largest recipient of these exports, has also been going through its own inflation and a bit of recession that's been there.
Recently, there has been the biggest exhibition in the U.S. for mattresses it was in Las Vegas. Our people were there. I mean, at the moment, I can say the sentiments are encouraging t hey are committed to looking at or creating a source. Besides China and in India, we would be the preferred supplier.
However, there is not too much to talk about it, let's say, in the last quarter or in this quarter, but I think the year would finish at about INR 40 crore or so. Definitely, a little dissatisfying. Should have been more at INR 40 crore, and the coming year, I think, should see a jump up to about INR 100 crore. Online, we are trading along or trudging along at a reasonable pace. I think the year should end at about what, Ritesh?
No, online. O nline should cross the 100?
O nline should also cross INR 100 crore. However, as I said, we also changed our strategy a little bit when we were doing it with a different brand, and now we're doing it with Sleepwell, and we have found a way to reduce or almost remove any kind of friction between online and offline, and that is picking up. I said this year, we should close at about INR 100 crore or over INR 100 crore , and the next year would be at least 50%-60% more than that.
Thank you so much, sir. New initiatives, foray into living room, are looking at so far as an avenue. That was the last one, and probably I'll jump back to you again with I have some second-degree questions, sir.
Maybe I will take that question on sofas. I presume you would have asked many questions for many other people, t hat's all right. I would have preferred to have sofas. The manufacturing of sofas, I would be able to talk on this better the next time.
Some initiatives on, but as I said, that it will be better if I talk next time on it. However, on the refurbishment of sofas, which continues to be a big business, it's fragmented business i t is very unorganized business, and our initiative to put all that together is now taking shape i mean, at the moment, I'll share that a pilot is on where the proposal is that we, as in Sleepwell, will pick your sofa up and refurbish it and return it back in 3-4 days' time.
Sure, sir. This was very helpful, sir. Thanks for all the answers. I'll just jump back with you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Forum Gosar, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Anya, good evening, sir. I just have one question. We have seen an increase in revenue from the technical foam business, I just want to understand from where the demand is coming from d id we onboard any new plans?
Thank you, ma'am. Can I just have your name once again, please?
Forum.
Thanks, Forum. T he technical foam, the primary expansion in orders has come from the auto sector. W e all know that the auto sector has been, for the last couple of months, has been doing extremely well or continues to do well. W e have almost about what, 60%-70%, 75% share in that market and the growth in the technical side, and we are expecting that that growth will continue as that expands.
Okay. Thank you, sir. That's it from my side.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Siddharth, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. A ctually, I just wanted to ask you that last time, you had mentioned that our management's focus is to increase the productivity of the outlets. I mean, have we been successful in increasing the footfall, and if not, then when can we expect that to start?
Sir, Siddharth, Thanks for that question. Yes, our efforts are beginning to show some results. I mean, the productivity has increased on two actions. One is to increase the footfalls coming into the stores, and the second is to increase the conversion of whatever is kind of coming in. The second thing, first conversion, we have taken the help of a company called Quess and got some sales advisors from them, which have been placed at almost about 30%-35% of the stores.
T hey are training the people as well as helping to convert whoever is coming in. And that conversion, we can see that the percentage is increasing on a month-on-month basis. As far as footfalls are concerned, the only way is promotions, advertisements, BTL, ATL activities. You would have noticed that recently, we have begun advertising on the television and even at the local level, and we believe that the footfalls will increase.
All right, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Of course, as I already mentioned to Ritesh earlier, we are expanding the number of showrooms, which definitely will increase the total number of footfalls which we cater to.
All right, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Sorry to bother you again. I just wanted to understand the market sizing. W hen we are looking at the INR 15,000 crore-INR 20,000 crore of total market, I appreciate what you're doing on the EBOs and MBOs, but how would the market basically size for the likes of Pepperfry, IKEA, HomeLane? I think that's also incrementally a trend. H ow? do we approach basically tapping this particular market, or are we already there? And if we are already there, how does the economics work? So that's the first question.
D o you want to complete the questions, or should I respond to it?
Sir, I'll just write down for you, sir.
Ritesh, as I am understanding the question, you're saying that the likes of IKEA and Pepperfry, which are primarily furniture or furnishing outlets, that they do cater to mattresses. And how are we making our presence in that segment? So let me just say that we have already begun looking at what we call as furniture-first stores. T hese are stores which are not necessarily exclusive mattress stores, however, do furniture first and consequently sell mattresses along with the beds that they sell.
T hat expansion has already begun. We are present in how many markets would be we present at the moment? A bout 2,000, we have already got our presence a s I said, those are not exclusive. And therefore, that is done under the Sheela Foam brand, which is endorsed by Sleepwell, and that's been reasonably well accepted. J ust as to sum up, our response to the IKEAs and the Pepperfrys and all that is to go and be present in the furniture-first stores.
M y question was, basically, if you look at the mobile population or say tier one, tier two, I think probably the population which goes to individual stores, it might be reducing. I'm just giving a hypothetical scenario, and there will be more and more people who might be going to HomeLane, Pepperfry, IKEA than there will just go to buy a curtain or something else and end up buying a mattress. F rom a sample sizing standpoint, if we have to look at the marketplace, I s furniture first the solution that we are looking at, or are we looking at something beyond that to tap the larger marketplace?
I agree with you that there are some stores which are complete furnishing stores. I agree with you that there is a mobile population which may be very short on time and would not go from a store to store and would want to have a one-stop place and do that. But however, those people, we would be attracting them maybe more with Sleepwell at home or through the e-commerce platform that we are operating on. I would say that, I mean, for us, really to get into a full-fledged furnishing store at the moment is not another option.
Sure, sir M y second question was specifically on the EPE Foam or Mattress for Every Indian, what we have indicated. I just wanted to check, is it for the first time that it's happening, something of this sort in India? or has it been tried by any of our peers in the past?
No, no, no. I don't know y ou are connecting the EPE with that mattress for every Indian. E PE is a completely different product which is different from polyurethane foam. Do we do some EPE stuff? Yes, we do. Is it cheaper? It is. However, the availability part of it is still a challenge i t's an extremely light material to be transported all over the place. Our mattress for every Indian for a is primarily to look at people who are not using any kind of modern mattresses at the moment.
They may be using cotton mattresses t hey may be using dhurries, charpais, etc. T here are two challenges to it. One is to make the product affordable for them, and the second thing is to make it available to them to where they are, whether in a tier-three block or a cluster of villages that they are.
O ur project, which is coming up in Jabalpur, the new technology that we talk about will help us in both these aspects of affordability and as well as accessibility of making it available to those places. Has it been done before? To the best of my knowledge, no.
G enerally, it's just the way that happens that when you have a new product, a new modern mattress coming up, it goes to the big towns. Then it starts filtering down to tier two, tier three, tier four, tier five, and as that goes. Here, we're just trying to go the other way around, which is start from the bottommost area and try to work upwards and hopefully build the gap there.
Is it possible so you indicated it's PU Foam, right, for Mattress for Every Indian? That's what we are looking at?
Yes. I mean, it could possibly have one or two other materials, for example, but primarily, it is polyurethane foam with the new technology that we would be making.
Okay. Sir, any timelines over here? I presume it's linked with the Jabalpur expansion.
Look, Ritesh.
The launch?
Ritesh, I said that right in the beginning. This project got delayed on account of COVID t hen it got delayed on account of the Ukraine war because the steel, etc., needed to come from there. Our supplier of this technology is based in U.K., but we have begun receiving parts of the machines. We expect it to start getting installed anytime by the end of the Q1.
Sure. L astly, I had a bookkeeping question w ould it be possible for us to quantify the one-off variables which you indicated on the non-cash income forex losses, exploratory, and then the expenses? I think you indicated three variables o r probably I can take it offline.
I would say that if you really want to understand that in depth, it would be better offline. However, since you talked about the non-cash one, I would say it is like hedging for the equity that we have invested in Spain. T hat equity, at the time that we hedged it, which was something like September, at that time, the euro was just falling, and it was being expected that this war would continue forever and the euro would always be under threat w e wanted to protect that.
We wanted that investment of ours. Generally, we do not hedge equities, but we did that because the euro was and it was a special condition. W hen we've hedged that, fortunately or unfortunately, number one, the euro has got back some a t that time, it was down from 78 t oday, it's 87. T here is mark-to-market. It's gone up by a certain amount.
Now, the industry says that you have to have mark-to-market, and this will be charged to the expenses. However, when you have that investment in euros, there is an interest that the bank is giving us, which is almost about INR 1 crore a quarter. And that interest is, as per industry, not it has to be in the other incomes and OCIs, and therefore, impacts it y ou get a double whammy out of it, and it's all notional t here is no cash impact. There is no nothing. That's one of the examples. I can offline explain the other areas where, on account of this issue, we have been impacted.
T his is very, very helpful. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
Yeah.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone phones. The next question is from the line of Dharma Venkatesan K. B., an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Good evening, sir. I hope you are doing well.
Thank you. Yes. Please go ahead.
M y question is regarding the demand in Europe. H ow the things have settled down? Are we seeing demand slightly? Is there any green shoots in the demand, and how's the thing shaping up there for us?
D emand in Europe has definitely slumped. The market, if we would look at the market, let me first begin by saying that it is the largest market in the world, the entire European Union. But that market has slumped by 25%. We, ultimately, being just 1% of this market and having our own strength, e ven if the market size has shrunk, our share as the potential is already going up and has the potential of increasing. I mean, we are far, far away from making any kind of an impact on this entire market.
Okay. And my second question is regarding that in the presentation, it was mentioned that there was a one-time marketing expense. I s this one-time, or are we going to spend more on brand building from now on? Is this going to be a new number going forward?
T hank you for raising it. Look, it's not entirely all one-time. There was a time when it was zero time during the COVID and corona times. And then when you want to restart, you obviously have to do a little more than necessary to get the momentum back. And that's exactly what has been done on the marketing and sales side. Would it become completely zero? No. But would it be at this level? Also no. And it will settle down at normal levels as we kind of go along. But it is this time, this period, when you had to kickstart it, and that's been right.
Okay. S uppose if you are looking at a longer time frame, let's say 5 years or 10 years, what is the percentage of shares that we would ideally like to have for marketing expense?
Generally, I mean, historically, it has been about 4%. But as I think our margins expand, we would like it to go up to 5%.
Okay. Sure. Fine. Sir, thank you for the opportunity, and all the best for the coming quarters.
Thanks. Thanks.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir.
Good afternoon, Resham.
A few clarifications and a couple of questions f irst is Jabalpur, when you said end of the year is FY23 or December 23?
T he installation will begin at that time, and it may take still a couple of months. I mean, when I said, I meant really the end of the calendar year. However, I mean, if I would say there's a full streamlined, good production. FY24. FY25.
25.
Not FY2024. FY2024 is right now, right?
Right. Okay. This is FY23.
Right now is FY23. Sorry. FY24 is not FY25. FY24 b ut it's starting from 1st April 2024.
Okay. That means next year only. Okay. Jabalpur plant will have what kind of capacities and what kind of revenue one can expect from this plant, let's say, 2, 3 years down the line?
I would be making a wild guess, absolutely, if 2 years' time. But I would say that INR 350 - 400 crore.
And the second question is on exports. Last time, you mentioned that this export-dedicated plant has a capability to do close to INR 1-1.5 crore per day. I s that understanding right, which means that the plant must be utilized at close to 10%, 12%, or 15% utilization only currently, export plant?
Resham, the Jabalpur plant is for manufacturing of.
Oh, sorry.
I mean, the basic technology.
Sorry. Export plant, sir.
The export plant, which is close to Mumbai, is that the one that you're referring to?
Yes. That one you mentioned last time that it can do INR 1-1.5 crore per day. T hat's operating at just 10%-15% utilization right now. Is that correct?
Absolutely. That is correct. That's correct.
That plant must be making losses right now, correct? At this utilization level, it's hard to make money.
You're right that if I just drew up the P&L for that particular plant, it would be making losses. Fortunately, we have not invested too much in the CapEx side. There is no foaming process that takes place, which is the maximum. It's on rented premises and, of course, has mattress manufacturing and compressing and putting them in a box, etc., and doing that. Y es, as a standalone, it is making losses.
Okay. Right. T he third question is on Spain business. What you told us is that it's a very small market. We are expanding capacity by some 5,000-odd tons. I s there a possibility for you to expand there in a step-jump kind of thing over there, or this will be like 20%, 30%, 40% increase in capacity like that only, given a significantly large opportunity available over there?
This is about Spain, right?
Yes, sir.
Okay. T he opportunity is much bigger than what I'm talking about. Number one, this plant is located in a small town or in an industrial area where there is production of sofas, mattresses, shoes, and a lot of furniture. We don't even cater to 10% of the requirement of that area i 'm just painting the picture to tell you what the opportunity is like. Plus, this is the only plant in the entire Europe, no, there is one more in Italy, small one, which uses a completely green technology for manufacturing foam.
The characteristic of green technology has a lot of meaning to them t herefore, this is the only plant that satisfies. Third, it's also not too far away from the U.S. There have been exports from there. However, because the entire U.S. market has been a bit down, the exports have come down. But that opportunity has to come, will come. W ith these three, three, four advantages that it has and having a very small share and expanding its capacity to at least 50% more than what it is doing now, the future is only extremely bright for it.
Okay. The last one, sir, is on competition. Has that because online space, we have seen a lot of players, and it seems that some kind of rationality has come back in the market. A ny comments on the competition on the online side? And a few of the online players have now started opening offline mode as well. H ow? are you seeing the overall competition both online as well as offline side?
R esham, point number one that I want to say is that as it has happened at other places in the world where online started much earlier, there is, what should I say, a dynamic balance between offline and online that will come about. Generally, it has been 15% of the total market. During the COVID times, and I'm talking of US, it went up to 20+% but now has slid back to 17%-18%. T hose people measure their numbers pretty accurately.
Therefore, as we go ahead or let's say, what do we see the end game like? There would be online and offline. The online will be about anything between 15%-20% i f it's any above the 15%, I think that will be a great achievement. Currently, we should be tracking at more like 7, 8, 9%-10%, something of that order t here is that.
The second point is that as far as online is concerned, we, Sheela Foam and Sleepwell, are also present on it and reasonably strongly present on it. We took our time to get our strategy right. Now we have the strategy, and we would be doing that. Because of this balance between online and offline, all the people who started online and will continue in the mattress business will have the temptation to go offline too because 85% business is going to be there and 15% is only going to be online. T hat's one part. The second part is that online businesses have been losing money.
With this change in the sentiments and not only the sentiments of the industry but also the investors saying that money costs, and therefore, we cannot continue to burn money, they have to go offline. This will happen, and online will become or has become just another channel to reach out to the consumers or to the customers. Otherwise, there is nothing more to it. Of course, it came i t made its hullah and noise and this and that. But at the end of the day, just to reach the 100%, this will have a 10%-15% way or mode of reaching the consumer.
Okay, sir. Perfect. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity again, sir o ne last question. W hat is it that we are scouting when we are saying that we are open to inorganic growth? A ny numbers that you can help us with either on the leverage side or whether the equation can it be EPS valuative or we'll ensure that it will be EPS equitable?
Ritesh, you always ask very difficult questions. Let me say that on the what are we looking for? A s far as India and the Indian market is concerned, we look for businesses which are consumer-facing. That is something that we think or we believe that we understand, which is the consumer. We understand the diversity in India that exists a nd by our sheer presence and the number of years that we have been here, I think we do an okay job for that.
W e are happy to look at businesses which are consumer-facing and which would align themselves well with what we do. As far as outside of India is concerned, we would look at businesses which manufacture foam because that alignment comes easy to us, which is procurement of material, formulations, technologies to manufacture, and just to sell foam to other people.
We do not understand the markets, the consumer outside India, and we will hesitate, or by and large, we will not touch any business which does that. That is as far as the strategy or our philosophy is concerned. On the Indian side, and let me just say the opportunities are there, are present. At this point of time, I may be constrained into speaking anything more about it.
Of course, our effort will be that it is a bit accretive. It should help. May not help right away, but that at least on a stable basis, as soon as stability happens, etc., it should be accretive. It should give us more sense in the market. A t this time, Ritesh, I'll not be able to say anything more than that because most of the time, these things are work in progress and do take their time.
Sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much for the answers, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask questions may press star and one at this time. The next question is from the line of Amit Vora from SBI Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
I have one question on foam core business as well as technical foam business in India. It has seen a sharp decline in more than 20%, almost decline. Any reason you want to highlight, or is it only the high base of the last quarter, sequential quarter? Also, the realization in the same seems to have declined by around 2% and 7%. H ow does this price transfer or how does this happen in terms of falling raw material? How do you transfer the pricing to the end customer?
Is this on the foam core side or the technical foam side? Which side? Because they are two separate segments. Which one, or is it both that you're both?
Foam core. Foam core. Yeah.
A s far as foam cores is concerned, they are generally sold to more, let's say, not unorganized, but let's say lesser organized people. It's a business through the distribution channels. Therefore, the pricing is completely determined by us, and we change it as and when we think that it is the right thing to do. On the technical however, on the technical foam side, the customers are B2B, more established, some cases even bigger than us.
We have formulae for them, which is a rise-and-fall clause, and we go along that way. We progress that. These numbers that you see, the shifts that you see, honestly, Amit, a quarter is too short a time really for looking, especially when the fluctuations are far and many. T here is inventory which plays a part. There is changing prices which play a part.
In the long run, eventually, they get passed on. I n a short term and the way that the accounting is done, you may have this feeling or experience that we have shortchanged ourselves or we have reduced somewhere as far as the points are concerned. In this world, quarter is too small a period. W e have mechanisms in both to account for changing raw material prices.
Sure, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one at this time. We have the next question from the line of Rakesh Kumar, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I had a couple of questions. First, what is your view on how the competitive scenario in the offline mattress industry is evolving across different regions? I think that's the first question a nd second, across the different economic buckets or let's say ASP buckets, where do you see the volume growth steady coming from in the mattress space? W hat will be the impact on the margins going forward?
Thank you, Rakesh. C ompetitive scenario in the various regions, historically, most of the organized mattress manufacturing companies have been based out of South. T hat's because historically, around talking 20, 25, 30 years back, the coir and rubberized coir mattresses were primarily the dominant ones.
A t the moment, that number is definitely changing. North and West, a little bit in the East, are increasing t he companies in the organized sector are increasing. However, South continues to be because of historical region. And its share may be reducing, but it still would be the largest as far as the organized mattress market is concerned. On the products, I would say that traditionally, because South has been the coir market, more products are coir, coir-based products E ast also has been a bit of a coir market. They are like that. North and West have been more foam-oriented.
The change from coir to foam is happening, t here is a baseline numbers which are there. Besides these two, there is the spring mattress which continue to grow t hey have a small baseline. They continue to grow i don't think that there is any regional delta or a differential in their growth.
They are there t hey just need to be a little bit various challenges, the sizes and sizing and base and the kind of beds that are used. T hat's almost all across the country. The actual question was on ASP. I would say that currently, and this is for a single mattress, INR 15,000-INR 20,000 numbers i t's for a single mattress i s that right, Rakesh?
No m y question is slightly different m y question was across different price bands, let's say one in which, for instance, Starlite and Feather Foam would belong, and the other one in which sort of, let's say, the Sleepwell brand would belong. Across these two buckets, where do you see the growth really coming from? And second, on a longer-term basis, as this plays out, what do you see the impact on margin to be?
Undoubtedly, the growth will come on a slightly lower ASP, undoubtedly. The effort of all the manufacturers and including us, and we need to lead that way, we have to keep adding value to the product and keep trying to increase the ASP. It's a slow process, quite impacted, adversely impacted during the COVID times. However, that effort will always continue. Currently, if I was to look both the Feather Foam and Starlite that you're saying, definitely have a larger potential for growth in the areas or in the regional price ranges that they are operating, which is close to about a 10,000 number.
Understood. O n my first question, if you don't mind, I just want to have a follow-up. My question was more around how do you see the competitive dynamics in different regions evolving? And as you pointed out, the number of organized players in the South is very, very high compared to the other regions. We just wanted to understand how are the competitive dynamics different and how are we performing across different regions?
To answer your last question first, which is to say how are we performing, definitely our real strong areas are North and West. Our share in the South is increasing, but we are definitely not leading that position there. There are others who lead that. E ast is a relatively small market, but that market too, I mean, we would be number two in that area. I t's also a small market, East size one.
How do we see that unfolding in the future? Rakesh, I would say that there would be more consolidation processes going on. There would be M&As which will be on account of that. B ecause it's all because of so many years, every company sort of unfolds in its own style, and somewhere or the other, does hit a bit of a hurdle in its progress COVID has also not been very generous to us i f I see the next two years or two years, I see a lot of consolidation happening here.
Understood. Very helpful, sir.
We are well-placed for that. That's what I can say.
Understood. Very helpful input, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you for conducting the call. Thank you all for participating in this call. I sincerely hope that we have been able to answer your questions as well as we could, but however, to your satisfaction. I would say that if there are any more follow-up questions, please reach out to us, or you can reach out to us through our advisors, Valorem.
I can say on behalf of myself and the entire team that, as always, it has been a good learning exercise for us. We take this interaction extremely seriously and follow it up with whatever that we have done. Thank you very much and wishing all of you a very good weekend. See you again in the next call. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.