Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Dr. Abhishek Sharma. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you. Good evening, and a warm welcome to our fourth quarter FY 2024 earnings call. I am Abhishek from the Sun Pharma Investor Relations team. We hope you have received the Q4 financials and the press release that was sent out earlier in the day. These are also available on our website. We have with us Mr. Dilip Shanghvi, Managing Director, Mr. C.S. Muralidharan, CFO, Mr. Abhay Gandhi, CEO, North America, and Mr. Kirti Ganorkar, CEO, India Business. Today, the team will provide an update on financial performance and business highlights for the quarter, pipeline updates, and respond to any questions that you may have. We will refer to the consolidated financials for management comments. The call recording and call transcript will also be put up on our website shortly.
The discussion today might include certain forward-looking statements, and these must be viewed in conjunction with the risks that our business faces. You are requested to ask two questions in the initial round. I also request all of you to kindly send in your questions that may remain unanswered today. I will now hand over the call to our CFO, Mr. C.S. Muralidharan.
Welcome, and thank you for joining us for this earnings call after the announcement of financial results for the fourth quarter FY 2024. Our full year and Q4 financials are already with you. As usual, we will look at key consolidated financials. The full year FY 2024 sales were at INR 477,585 million, a growth of 10.4% over last year. Material cost stands at 22.3% of sales, lower than last year on account of higher specialty sales and better product mix. Staff cost stands at 19.7% of sales, higher versus last year on account of annual merit increase, consolidation of Concert, and increased headcount in India field force. Other expenses were at 32.3% of sales, higher on account of higher R&D expenses, including Concert and selling and distribution expenses.
Foreign exchange for the year was INR 361 million, compared to a loss of INR 1,261 million last year. EBITDA for the year was at INR 130,231 million, a growth of 11.8%, with resulting EBITDA margin of 26.9%. Adjusted net profit for the year was at INR 107,707 million, up 16.5%. Reported net profit for the year was INR 95,764 million, compared to INR 84,736 million in same period last year. Let us now discuss the Q4 FY 2024 performance.
Q4 FY 2024 sales were at INR 118,133 million, a growth of 10.1% over the Q4 FY 2023 and lower by 2.8% over Q3 FY 2024. Material cost for the quarter was 20.2% of sales, lower year-over-year on account of better product mix, including higher specialty sales. Material cost is lower versus Q3 FY 2024 on account of geographic and product mix. Staff cost came in at 19.5% of sales, higher than Q4 FY 2023 on account of merit increase, increase in headcount, and consolidation of Concert. Other expenses were higher year-over-year and also quarter-over-quarter on account of higher R&D spend, which includes consolidation of Concert and higher sales and distribution expenses across geographies.
Forex loss for the quarter was INR 564 million, compared to a loss of INR 272 million in Q4 FY 2023. EBITDA, including other operating revenues, was at INR 30,352 million, higher by 8.3% over Q4 last year. EBITDA margin for the quarter was 25.3%, compared to 25.6% in Q4 FY 2023 and 28.1% in Q3 FY 2024. Adjusted net profit, excluding the exceptional items for Q4 FY 2024, was INR 27,562 million, representing a growth of 27.8% over Q4 FY 2023. Reported net profit for Q4 FY 2024 stands at INR 26,546 million, as against reported net profit of INR 19,845 million in Q4 FY 2023.
The effective tax rate for Q4 FY 2024 was 5.1%. Reported EPS for the quarter was at INR 11.1 per share. As of 31 March 2024, net cash was $2.4 billion at consolidated level and $1.1 billion at ex-Taro level. Moving on to Taro's performance. Net sales for the full year was $629 million, up by 9.8%. Net profit for the full year was $53.9 million. For Q4 FY 2024, sales were $165 million. Excluding impact of GTN adjustments, sales growth was in high single digits....Net profit for Q4 FY 2024 was $15.1 million, compared to $6.9 million in Q4 FY23. I now hand over to Mr. Kirti Ganorkar, who will share the performance of our India business.
Thank you, Murali. I shall take you through the performance of our India business. Our India formulation sales for the full year of FY 2024 were INR 148,893 million, recording 9.5% growth over previous year. For Q4, the sales of formulation in India were INR 37,078 million, recording a growth of 10.2% over Q4 last year. India formulation sales accounted for 31.4% of total consolidated sales for the quarter. Sun Pharma is ranked number one and holds 8.5% market share in the over INR 1,970 billion Indian pharmaceutical market, as per AIOCD AWACS March 2024 report. Corresponding market share for the previous period was 8.3%.
For the quarter ending March 2024, we grew higher than IPM, and we have done well across all major represented therapy areas. As per SMSRC MAC February 2024 report, we continue to be number 1 ranked company based on the prescription volume. Sun Pharma is also ranked number 1 by prescriptions with 12 different doctor categories. For Q4 FY 2024, the company launched 9 new products in India. I will now hand over the call to Abhay.
Thank you, Kirti. I will update on the performance highlights of our US businesses. Our overall US business grew by 10.1% to $1,854 million for the full year, FY 2024. The growth driven by specialty is all our, all our growth products contributing, like Ilumya, Cequa, Winlevi, and Odomzo. For Q4, our overall sales in the US grew by 10.9% over Q4 last year to $476 million. The US accounted for over 33.5% of consolidated sales for the quarter. For Q4, we launched two generic products in the US on an external basis. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Shanghvi.
Thank you, Abhay. I will provide an update on the performance highlights of our other businesses, as well as give you an update on our R&D initiatives. Our branded formulation revenues in emerging markets were $1,041 million for the full year, up by 5.9% year-on-year. For Q4, sales in emerging markets were $245 million, up by 10.8% over Q4 last year. The underlying growth in constant currency terms was 17% year-on-year for Q4. Emerging markets accounted for 17.2% of total consolidated revenue for Q4. Among the larger markets in local currency terms, Brazil and South Africa have done well. Formulation revenues in rest of the world were $811 million, up by 7.8% over last year.
For Q4, rest of the world sales were $196 million, up by 2.5% over Q4 last year. Rest of the world markets account for approximately 13.8% of consolidated revenue. We continue to invest in building a R&D pipeline for both, both the global generics and the specialty businesses. Consolidated investments towards R&D for Q4 2024 stands at INR 9,000 million, 7.6% of sales. The specialty R&D accounted for 42% of our total R&D spend for the quarter. Moving on to updates on global specialty. In FY 2024, our global specialty sales were up by 19.3% to reach $1,039 million. In Q4 financial year 2024, our global specialty sales were up by 11.1% to reach $271 million.
We've seen a strong growth in global Ilumya sales for the year, which were up by 21.7% to $580 million. This figure does not include end market sales of our partners. The board has proposed a final dividend of INR 5 per share for the year FY 2024. This is in addition to the interim dividend of INR 8.5 per share paid in FY 2024, taking the total dividend for the FY 2024 to INR 13.5 per share, compared to INR 11.5 per share for the FY23. Lastly, on the guidance for FY 2025, we expect high single-digit consolidated top line growth for FY 2025. All our businesses are positioned for growth. For the current year, we will be in investment phase for the several businesses.
These include, but not limited to, product launch costs in the U.S., and the ramp-up of our global specialty business is expected to continue. R&D investments will be 8%-10% of sales for the next year. With this, I would like to leave the floor open for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We'll take our first question from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, and thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on your U.S. business, excluding Taro and Specialty. So have you seen improvement in the performance, considering prior few quarters have seen lower shipments from key plants like Mohali? So, excluding Revlimid also, have you seen pickup in that part of the business?
Hi, Damayanti.
Hi.
Your question is on the generics business, correct?
Yes, yes, U.S. generics business.
Yeah. So I think, supplies from Mohali have resumed, but obviously not, you know, fully in effect, and it will gradually improve over a period of time. So we had to make do with what we had, and, in that context, we did the best that was possible.
Okay. And you mentioned two launches during the quarter. How are you positioned for launches in FY 2025 for U.S. generic business?
So we have a plan of filing and getting approvals for a few products. Specific details, obviously, we won't give, but the pipeline looks healthy, and most of the key products that we wanted to get to market are in that basket.
Sure. And my second question is on your pipeline for GLP-1 products. So can you share, like, how far those are from market launch, and, like, how many you have filed so far? Some color on that will be helpful.
You mean the generic GLP-1?
Yes, generic GLP-1 products.
We generally don't give out information related to future products, specific product launches, so... But they are interesting products globally.
Okay, but you, you are working for your global portfolio, right? Without discussing it further.
Yeah, we are working for the global portfolio, correct.
Okay. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. So based on your guidance of high single-digit growth for FY 2025, you know, if I were to just think about the various businesses, particularly specialty, is it fair to assume that, you know, this year, even with Ilumya growth, we're not expecting too much momentum in the rest of the portfolio, particularly Winlevi? Is that how I should be reading this number? You know, and if... And, you know, along with that, if you could just give us an update on what you're seeing in Winlevi.
Abhay will respond to specifics, but otherwise, the overall guidance is a consolidated guidance for all businesses. It's not-
Yes, sir.
That the business is weak. Yeah, Abhay, maybe you can explain.
On Winlevi specifically, Neha, if you see the quarter and from external data, you can validate this, I mean, we have seen actually a very strong quarter for Winlevi.
Do you expect the momentum to build from here now that you've started seeing a pickup on Winlevi? Would that be fair to assume?
That would be our expectation, yes.
On Ilumya, Abhay, you know, given 20% growth, are we close to getting sort of, you know, the growth peaking out, or you think there's more steam left in Ilumya as we, you know, look through the next few years?
I mean, our task as a team is to continuously find ways to grow this product.
Understood. Despite the fact that we are seeing competition from, you know, biosimilar Humira, et cetera?
Yes, sure.
The deuruxolitinib launch, you know, approval, which is due in July, the launch-related cost for that would start coming through in the second half of this year. Will that be a fair assumption? I mean, just wanted to get a sense on the launch timeline for deuruxolitinib, assuming we get approval in July.
There are small costs that we are incurring even today for all the pre-launch activities, but I think the major cost will obviously, you know, hit our numbers when we actually launch the product.
Which would be when, based on the July 2024 timeline for approval?
We are on track to launch it post the PDUFA date. Do remember it takes a little bit of time to actually enter the market with all the pre-launch activities that need to be done. But, we are on track as of now.
Understood. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Bino Pathiparampil from Elara Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening. Could you please comment a bit on this, FDA issues at Mohali and Dadra? Do you think the worst we have seen, and from here on we will improve, or do you expect anything more?
No, I think we are concerned about the negative outcomes in the audit, and I think it's our job to find a way to ensure that we come out of whatever the learnings that we have, so that we perform much better in subsequent audits.
I understand. But I ask this because, you know, especially in Mohali, we had inspection, 483. Then we got an OAI status, and subsequently a few months later, again, we got something else, which is like the third party consultant ratification, et cetera. So we have been on a, you know, worsening course. You think that has bottomed out or, you know, do you have the confidence that has, that, that has bottomed out?
I mean, we feel that, we've done enough corrections so that, we should see a positive outcome in subsequent audits.
Okay. Second on this product, MM2. From your press release, I see that you plan to initiate a phase III, but if I remember correctly, it had not met the primary endpoint in phase II. So could you put that into context, please?
No, I think we are really, we've, I think what we disclosed in the phase II, or the press release, is that it did not meet the primary endpoint. But, we believe that, with our learnings and our understanding, we can design a phase 3 study which will not only meet primary endpoint, but will, also be proven to be a very effective product.
Okay, and the phase III will be in the US?
Yeah. Well, it's a global study, including U.S.
Including U.S. Okay, you can, if it's successful, you can directly file in the U.S. That's the way it's designed.
Yeah.
Okay. If I could push one last question on this Nigeria-related Forex loss. Is that a balance sheet item? I mean, is it a receivable that you have written down?
This was due to the sharp currency depreciation by the regulator, and we booked an MTM loss in the against the payables.
Understood. Okay. So it's a balance sheet item. On the payables, we have to book a loss.
It's a P&L item shown as exceptional because the action was initiated with the regulator.
Understood. What I'm trying to understand is that on the balance sheet, you had some money that was receivable or payable, and on that, because of the devaluation, there is a loss. Is that correct?
Correct, correct.
Okay. Thank you.
Balance sheet via P&L.
Understood. Thank you. I'll remember.
Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Tushar Manudhane from Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, with respect to the development, are there any queries pending with U.S. FDA?
We haven't received any specific queries which have till date not been answered.
Understood. Just on this India market, if you could share the outlook for, at the industry level, what do you think would be the growth rate for next one to two years? Is the trade generics eating away the volume from the prescription sales? If you could, you know, give your perspective over here.
For us, it's very difficult to predict what will be the industry growth in next one to two years. But the expert in India business as a team is always, we grow in line with market or slightly higher than market. And your questions on trade generics, there is a momentum and growth in trade generics, but, we don't see any direct impact on our prescription business, because the market is large enough for all the players to grow.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Girish Bakhru from OrbiMed. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking the question. Abhay, just on Deuruxolitinib. So, just need a clarification. If the approval comes in by July, should this product have a normal NCE exclusivity of five years like any other? Abhay, you are responding?
I'm sorry, the line for Mr. Abhay.
I'm sorry.
Disconnected. I'll reconnect him. Please stay connected.
Yeah. So now, in the meantime... Yeah, I think it will have the normal five-year NCE exclusivity.
Sure. So Dilip, I just, I mean, digging this a bit deeper, because there was no compound patent in this case, so, I mean, is that understanding correct, that generic cannot file for at least NCE-1 , so you will have that window like any other product, right?
Yeah, yeah. I think, I'm not responding to specific patent-related issue, but your understanding of generic's ability to file is correct. Now, we have multiple patent, patents, and, we feel that we should be able to protect the product for a much longer period of time.
That's helpful. And just when you compare this with Ilumya, I know there's no direct comparison. Ilumya has become a very sizable product for you.
I mean, given that this may take a larger share in terms of growth for you in FY 2026 and beyond, and you are possibly the third player entering Alopecia market with a very strong product, do you think this product, essentially, will have a much higher potential than Ilumya will for you?
I mean, we are not giving comparative, what you call, sales long-term projection. But I think we feel very happy about the overall, the way the product has performed. Abhay, you are back?
Yeah, I'm back, sir. I think you said it correctly. We are happy with the way the product has performed. We are happy with the way that in our initial discussions with KOLs and other doctors and payers, the response that we are seeing.
And I think we broadly see an acceptance that we have a strong product in our hands.
Understood. And just last one, if I can squeeze. Is it possible to give specific U.S. sales numbers for Ilumya?
No, we've given global sales, no?
Yeah, I was just wondering if U.S.-specific sales you could get for Ilumya.
I mean, U.S. is a major market, is what I can tell you, but no specific detail for U.S. sales.
Understood. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Hello?
Yeah, I'm here.
Yeah, Bakhru, please go ahead.
Yeah. Okay. Thanks for this opportunity, sir. My first question on the... Hello? Am I audible, yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. My first question is on the margin profile, sir. So, starting with the first, the current quarter, so in fact, the gross margin swing of around more than 200 basis points that we are witnessing for this quarter, although we have seen a sequential decline in the domestic business, there is a, last quarter was supported by, there is a $20 million of licensing income. So despite those key contributors to the margins were not there, still there is a more than 200 basis point kind of swing that we are witnessing. What is driving this this quarter?
Another extended point about this margin thing is that when you are saying that growth for FY 2025 is likely to be single-digit, and we are raising our R&D spend guidance by more than 200 basis points. So how should we, one, think about the margin profile of the business overall for FY 2025?
So, you're right, first on the gross margins, you are right that in the previous quarter, the milestone income was there. However, the current quarter, the gross margins have increased by about 200 basis points, primarily because of the function of both product and geography mix. There are many multiple small contributing factors, which individually were not very high, but on aggregate basis did have a positive momentum in the current quarter. From the overall perspective for FY 2025 outlook, we have given the revenue guidance. At this point of time, we are not giving any EBITDA margin guidance for FY 2025.
Okay.
Yeah, I think we're clear that we have to continue to invest for future, and our effort would be that while we are creating that investment for future, we don't do it at the cost of profitability. But even if it does require some increased investment, we would do that, because ultimately our focus is on building a business which is strong long term.
Sure, sir. So my second point, question is about the main global specialty business, which will also about the Ilumya's progress in China. In fact, the last quarter we have seen a big development as far as Ilumya is concerned in China, since that was included into the national reimbursement list of China. That is one. So any progress on that front? And also, if you can split, for the global specialty, what is the kind of U.S. and non-U.S. that split, if you can share?
No, I think your assessment that the product got, what you call, reimbursement, as well as we are happy with how the product launch is progressing. We just responded to a question about the U.S. sales of Ilumya, so we don't break down the sales in different geographies, but we're giving consolidated global sales. And we remain excited about the future potential of the product, not only in all the existing markets, but also in new markets we are in the process of launching.
Okay. No, my point was that, sir, in fact, in the last few quarters, we have seen extending our global or the US specialty portfolio to various global market, and possibly there is a kind of few quarters which already lapsed on that front. So are we seeing a kind of a enhanced growth for the specialty portfolio led by the non-U.S. market presence and progress there?
I think we will see... My view is that we will see specialty business becoming an increasingly important part of the business, and that's what I think we've been guiding. Our initial focus and presence was in the U.S., and now that we are launching these products in other geographies, we will see increasing acceptance and potential sales of this. Our hope is that our growth in the U.S. will keep up with the new business that we will generate, so that U.S. will continue to have a much higher share of the future growth. But we will sell, I mean, it will become a global business.
Okay. Okay. Just last one, if I may. So just can you share some some thought process about your plans for the Taro, sir, about its integration and integrating the business into the overall US and the potential growth subsequently? How should one think about this integration of Taro?
So, I think broadly, Taro, we've been actively involved in managing the business. So it's not a pure acquisition where we kind of buy a company and we don't know anything about it. So I'm not seeing any dramatic change in the way the business is run.
Sure, sir. Yeah. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take our next question from the line of Sayan Mukherjee from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for taking my question. Y ou have indicated in the past, you know, I think last two quarters, Revlimid was not a big contributor. I remember in fourth Q, I think you mentioned last year it was. So I just wanted to check, is there a big contribution from Revlimid this quarter? How should we think about that in the coming year, please?
So for quarter four, it was not a huge contributor. Certainly, you know, more than what we did in Q3. And, like you said, referring to my earlier comments on the product, the sales of this product will be episodic and a bit lumpy, when you look at it from an annual kind of a basis.
Right. Understood. And the second question again on Ilumya in the U.S. in particular. So what are the growth drivers that you see, now the product is established, going forward, that could, you know, help it grow for the next, say, five years or so?
I think the biggest growth driver we have is the current amount of data and the experience that current users have had with the product. So I think that's a big positive as far as product is concerned. Secondly, I think over a period of time, we should be able to get our new indication of psoriatic arthritis. That will be another driver for growth.
All right. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Ankush Mahajan from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Sir, thanks for the opportunity. This is in extension to the gross margins, a very healthy improvement in gross margins Q and Q. Sir, as, our, we are launching new product in the specialty, this year also, the product mix is changing towards, specialty. So there is any further scope of improvement in gross margins?
So while you are right that we have seen an upward movement of gross margins Q4, however, it's difficult to say at this juncture. What we feel is that our full year gross margins will be a better indicator to look at when looking at forward period.
Okay. So we can say, sum, whatever we are spending on R&D, that could be set up by the improvement in gross margins.
We are not giving any guidance on margins at this point of time.
Okay. So, what is the status of Nidlegy in the European market? And, can you tell us what is the total market size for this drug?
In the?
In the Europe.
I think it all depends on the kind of label that we will get. We are excited with the kind of clinical data we've seen, but it all depends on what kind of final label we will get. It's a useful and important product for patients in Europe.
Sir, any idea about what is the total market size for this product?
No, I think you should keep in mind that the number of patients would be in thousands. It's not a very large market, but I think. And also how many we will be able to capture is the second issue. But we feel comfortable based on the market research that we can get a reasonably good reimbursement. And in Europe, if you get good reimbursement and you have good marketing infrastructure, you should be able to at least successfully ensure that the product benefits are able to reach the patient.
Thank you, sir. Thanks very much.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Krish Mehta from Enam Holdings. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to ask on the restructuring costs you've taken in Japan of around INR 232 million this quarter, as to what this restructuring involves. And as a follow-up to that, if you could just expand a bit on our Japanese portfolio and how we are seeing, Japan products in terms of the specialty business, as well as the Novartis portfolio that we acquired several years ago. Thank you.
So the first question on the Japan restructuring costs, we being a global company, we do re-look at our businesses and structures, and we have taken some appropriate business decisions to the current circumstances. That's why you see this restructuring cost, which is a one-time cost. On the Japan portfolio, of course, we have our specialty products currently approved in India or some of our products there. And we also got the licensed brands which we market there currently. I think we are excited about the overall success that Ilumya has had in Japan, especially considering limited familiarity that doctors had with Sun Pharma as a company. And our effort now is to ensure that we are able to get a fair share of the prescriptions of the IL-23.
Okay, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Vishal Manchanda from Systematix. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening, and thanks for the opportunity. On Ilumya, would you be able to share what would be its market share in the biologics category for psoriasis?
Is the question pertaining to U.S.?
Yes, in the U.S., right.
So, it will be very small. It will be, say, less than up to 1% of total.
Sorry?
Of total market, it will be less than 1%.
Just the psoriasis market and biologics category.
That's what I referred to.
Okay, so 1% of the biologics market in psoriasis?
Yeah.
Okay. And, another one on Deuruxolitinib. If you could share some sense on how is it differentiated versus the other two options, Olumiant and Litfulo?
So that's a very specific science question, which I don't know whether on the call I can do justice without spending 10 minutes on it. So maybe you can separately take it up with Abhishek later. Yeah, but actually we don't have any comparative study. All the understanding we have is based on separate Our own data. And also separate Phase 3 studies, which are available in public domain or around label of both the products. And based on that, I think, at least based on the feedback that we've received from KOLs. They feel that the overall performance of Deuruxolitinib is very good.
Okay. And on Sezaby, if you could update, if there is something around exclusivity getting triggered for the product during the year?
I think SPARC has filed a citizen's petition, and they are working on it. That's all I will say.
Got it. And just one more, with Stelara getting generalized next year, do you expect any pricing pressure for that?
I mean, it is one of the options out of many, and all, all these, you know, competitive activities keep, will keep happening around us. So the overall guidance, which Mr. Shanghvi has given, factors in, you know, whatever possible competitive changes that we see, not only for one product, but for all products and on a global scale.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Madhav Marda from FIL. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. Thank you so much for your time. I had two questions. The first one was the initial launch cost, assuming approval comes through for Deuruxolitinib, in the next few months. Is this sort of a non-recurring expense which would happen in the first few months or first few quarters of launch and then that goes away or scales down? Is that how we should think about initial launch expense for this product?
Some of those expenses, you know, may be one time, but a large part of the expense will be a recurring expense.
These expenses pertain to basically manpower and, like, promotion costs, both these items I think.
Yeah. And there will be others, but, these two will be the bulk of it.
Understood. Got it. And then, just a second question was on the R&D spend, where when we are guiding for 8%-10%, that would mean.
Sorry, your voice is a little low, and you're speaking very fast, so, I don't think that I'm catching your questions very clearly.
Yeah. Sorry. I'll just repeat my question. So my second question was, when we are saying the R&D spend, could go up to 8%-10% of revenue, that's... I'm just doing this simple math. That would mean, almost, like $200 billion increase on our R&D spend. So could you help us understand where, some of this incremental spend will be going towards? Is it like the phase III or phase II study for the products?
Yeah, I think what I indicated in my readout is that a large part of the R&D spend increase would be in the specialty products.
Okay. If you can call out anything more specific, is it like specific trials for specific products? Anything that you can share more would be helpful.
We have shared the plans for all the products.
Okay, perfect. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Prashant Nair from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. My first question is on, you know, your comment that you will be in an investment phase during the next financial year. Just wanted to understand, would this be more skewed towards R&D, or would it be more evenly spread between the R&D and launch expenses related to your specialty products in the U.S.? How should we think about it?
I think my comment was more for the R&D-related expenses. We believe that increased business that we will get, we should be able to adjust for the increased marketing spend, excepting some one-time costs, but those are not big costs. And as I explained, our focus would be that how do we increase the spend without negatively impacting our overall profitability? How much we are able to execute is something that we will see. So we are not guiding for any profitability, but the focus would be that even if it means some compromise with profitability, we would like to create a longer-term high value for the business.
Yeah, thanks. That helps. And the second question is, you know, related to your tax rate. How should we think about it on an annual basis, over the next two years?
We already mentioned that tax expense should be seen on annual basis. If you look at the current annualized ETR for the current year is 13%, versus 9% in the previous year. We have been recommending that look at our tax rate on annual basis, and it's likely to inch up as we move forward year after year.
Okay, that helps. Thank you. That's it.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Sayan Mukherjee from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir, thanks for the follow-up. So just two questions. So first one on the emerging market, I think you mentioned, if I got you right, on constant currency terms, it was 17% growth. This quarter is a very strong growth, and we have seen good traction there. Typically, so these markets, what we understand, do not have a very high growth, right? Brazil, South Africa and all. So if you can, you know, sort of give some more color, just thinking how sustainable, you know, is the kind of growth in emerging markets and what exactly is driving quite strong growth there?
So, I think our focus is to, what you call, sell products which are a more consistent business rather than focusing on tender kind of business. Unfortunately, the markets are such that we always have the risk of currency depreciation. What we are happy is that in spite of this, the business continues to do well and grow.
Okay. Sir, my second question was on R&D. You mentioned about investments there. You know, and your guidance do suggest a you know, meaningful step-up in the spend. If I look at the specialty pipeline, it appears that you know, there would be products which will get into phase 3, possibly in calendar 2025 or FY 2026. So will it be, will we see another step up in R&D, maybe in another in FY 2026 before it starts to moderate?
No, I think, my challenge has been that, I have limited capacity to predict long-term future, so I don't know, what will happen in two, three years later. So our focus is to find a way to give you a guidance for this year, and our effort will be to see that we meet the guidance.
Sir, just to sort of ask this question a different way, right? I mean, clearly you suggest that, you know, we will invest, I think, short term is required from a long-term perspective. Are there any sort of, you know, how do we manage the risk here in the sense that do you have, you know, some limit on the kind of spend that you want to incur as a company?
No, I don't think I want to respond to a specific question whether I have a limit or not. But I believe that when we look at our overall performance, then, our investment in R&D is significantly higher than many generic companies. At the same point of time, if we look at our overall spend in, what you call, R&D as a specialty company, then there are many other companies whose overall spend is much higher than ours. So we need to find a balance and find a way by which we continue to generate growth and positive cash flow for our customer and then our investors, while we continue to create long-term value, and that's our focus.
Got it, sir. Sir, if I can ask one last question on, on the generic business. Any, firstly, sir, any comment on pricing environment? And secondly, you know, the plant issues that we have, with Dadra, Mohali, et cetera, is that having any impact on a meaningful launch that you expect, let's say, in the next one or two years? Or you think the meaningful ones are protected, you know, given the compliance status at this point?
Abhay, maybe you can comment about the pricing.
Yes, sure. I mean, we have said this, you know, on our calls, in the past as well, that it's a highly product-specific issue. On certain products, we see deep cuts, and on certain we don't see deep cuts. But overall, I think the environment remains the same as we saw in the previous years.
Yeah, and I, I think the overall guidance we have presumes and factors the current challenges that we have in the facilities.
Right, sir. Okay, thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from the line of Nitesh Dutt from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I have a question on our India business. So I just wanted to understand our manufacturing strategy. Basically two questions. One, what percentage of the production is being done in-house versus outsourced, and are you trying to maintain the same mix or trying to increase in-house? And also, is it like a concentrated supply base or segmented across a lot of players?
So, I think I don't know whether we've shared this specific information, but I think our focus would be to find a way to produce in-house as much as possible. So our relative percentage of outsourced product are limited. But, we could be buying from a few vendors, and that increases the challenge in terms of ensuring that they meet all the compliance requirements for what we are expecting from manufacturing facilities that we run ourselves. So that's one of the key reasons why we want to produce in-house.
Got it. So as the government is tightening the norms, et cetera, for the contract manufacturers, can it provide us an opportunity again to move in-house or improve our gross margins in that sense, if we move from production?
I mean, since we don't have a large business from third-party manufacturers, it will not have a material impact on the inaudible.
Understood. Thank you for the response. I'll come back to you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Prashant Nair from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity again. The first question is on inaudible. So in terms of development, are there any indications other than psoriatic arthritis that you are currently thinking about from this product perspective? Or will that be the only additional one that you look at?
Yeah, I think that's the only disclosed indication that we are currently in.
Okay. And I mean, is there potential to look at other options as well, or, you know, at a later date?
I mean, we haven't taken any specific decision. If we decide to, then that's something that we will share with people.
Okay, great. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Abhishek Sharma for closing comments. Over to you.
Thank you. Thanks, everyone, for joining us at this late hour. If any of your questions have remained unanswered, you can get back to the investor relations team or to me, and we'll be happy to take those separately. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.