Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Surya Roshni Limited Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on date of this call. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then Z on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Raju Bista, Managing Director of Surya Roshni Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Thank you. So good afternoon, Namaskar. On behalf of Surya Roshni Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to everyone for joining us today. On this call, we are joined by Mr. Naresh Singhal, Executive Director, Steel Operations, Mr. Kumar Gaurav Jain, CEO, Steel Operations, Mr. Jitendra Agrawal, CEO, Lighting and Consumer Durables, our CFO and company secretary, Mr. B.B. Singal, and SGA, our investor advisor. I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through the financial results, which was published yesterday. Moving on to the overall financial performance highlights, the company performance in FY24 has been commendable considering few challenges we faced in both our steel and lighting division verticals. Our strategic focus on efficiency and cost optimization allowed us to make substantial progress.
We have a strong conviction that the very little few challenges currently faced by both the business verticals were only temporary, and we are anticipating a period of consistent growth in both the business segments going forward. The EBITDA for FY24 stood at INR 586 crore, demonstrating good operational performance. The little dip in our operating margins was primarily due to challenges in the steel pipe business, mostly on account of price fall, which was offset with improved margins in our lighting and consumer durable segment. Our proactive measures in capacity utilization, working capital optimization, and cost rationalization have been vital in supporting our financial performance. These efforts reflect in our steady PAT, which stood at INR 330 crore, closely aligned with last year's performance. We achieved a major milestone by becoming a zero-debt company, having successfully reduced our debt by INR 400 crore in this FY24-25.
Reduced.
Reduced. So our commitment to financial prudence alongside our operational strategies has helped maintain a healthy cash surplus of about INR 65 crore. We have declared a final dividend of INR 2.5 per share, demonstrating our ongoing commitment to delivering shareholders value. This is in addition to the intrinsic dividend of INR 2.5 per share already, which was disbursed. Now, coming to lighting consumer durable, despite facing substantial price erosion in consumer lighting business, our annual revenue recorded a growth of nearly about 2% and now stands at INR 1,572 crore in FY24. EBITDA growth for Q4 FY24 and FY24 was up by 5% and 23% to INR 45 crore and INR 150 crore, respectively, as compared to the same period last year. EBITDA margin for Q4 FY24 and full year 2024 stood at 10.66% and 9.57%, respectively, against 9.84% and 7.92% in Q4 FY23 and FY full year 2023.
Significant growth in sales volume, along with a favorable product mix towards higher-margin product and cost-saving from backward integration, contributed to a robust operating profit. Infrastructure and industrial projects have driven our professional lighting segment to high-digit growth in Q4 FY24 and over 20% in FY24. The vertical of LED segment, like LED batten and downlighter, have also witnessed healthy growth in FY24. In the financial year 2024, the fan businesses experienced significant growth in mid-10 range, while the appliances segment also witnessed a robust growth of about 20%. With our strong foundation and strategic market expansion initiatives, along with ongoing investment in technology and product development, we are well positioned to capitalize on this opportunity ensuring continued growth. Now, moving to the steel pipe and strip business, in the fourth quarter of FY24, the steel pipe segment achieved its highest-ever quarterly volume of 236,000 tonnes.
It experienced a volume growth of 6% in FY24 and 4% in Q4 FY24, despite a temporary slowdown in the B2B business, mainly due to the general elections. Export also experienced a healthy volume growth of about more than 12% in FY24. Despite a notable decrease in steel prices during Q4 FY24, the overall sales revenue experienced only a minor decline. We have successfully navigated the challenges posed by declining steel prices and other factors that have impacted the industry at large. Our focus on value-added product, which made up 45% of our total sales, also played a crucial role in sustaining our revenue streams. Despite the industry headwinds, our revenue remained resilient, experiencing only a minor decline and closing the quarter at INR 1,665 crore.
This resilience is a testament to our diversified product mix and our strategic market positioning, which includes significant contribution from both the API pipe and our robust export operations. Even our galvanized pipe segment also witnesses healthy domestic demand in Q4 FY24. Export constitutes about 18% shares of our total volume in FY24. Additionally, our focus on value-added product, which already I have said, made up almost 45% of our total sales, played a crucial role in sustaining our revenue. The EBITDA per tonne for Q4 FY24 was INR 5,877 as compared to INR 6,156 in Q3 FY24 and INR 9,868 per tonne in Q4 of FY23. For FY24, EBITDA per tonne stood at INR 5,401 as compared to INR 6,496 in last fiscal year. This decrease can be largely attributed to the decreased sales of mainly API spiral pipe business, and the other part was mainly in loss of inventory in Q4 of FY24.
We have a strong order book of about INR 800 crore as on 31 March 2024, which includes the oil and gas sector and export business. We are currently in the process of expanding our operational capacity in order to meet the expected increase in market demand. Our goal is to increase our monthly production capacity by almost 15,000 tonnes per month. By the end of June 2024, our 18-inch pipe capacity additional will be operating at will commence operational at the Bahadurgarh plant. Roughly 50,000 tonnes per year would be the capacity. A spiral plant with an annual capacity of about 60,000 tonnes is scheduled to be commissioned at our Gwalior location in the same year by the end of almost Q2 FY25. This plant will be mainly used for the upcoming water projects.
We will have a net increased capacity of about 36,000 tonnes per annum after our new cold-rolled pipe facility at Bahadurgarh becomes operational in Q3 of FY25. The steel market is showing a sign of improvement as the steel price has begun slightly to rise, or you can say stable, since mid of April. This will revive demand across our product categories. We are optimistic about continued growth in our steel pipe segment, given the government highlighting emphasis on infrastructure development. For FY25, we are projecting a total volume growth of about 15% in our steel pipe business. This growth will be supported by our strategic expansion and our ongoing commitment to delivering higher-quality, innovating products. This was from my part. Now, I will request our CFO, Mr. B.B. Singal, to share his thoughts on the other financials parts.
Thank you, respected MD, sir. A very good afternoon to all the participants on the call. For the quarter, the revenue was INR 2,080 crore as compared to INR 2,151 crore. Q1 FY24 EBITDA and PAT stood at INR 173 crore and INR 104 crore as compared to INR 254 crore and INR 156 crore, respectively, for the same period last year. For FY24, the revenue was INR 7,809 crore as compared to INR 7,997 crore. EBITDA stood at INR 586 crore as compared to INR 620 crore in FY23. PAT stood at INR 329 crore as compared to INR 336 crore. For the lighting and consumer durable, for this quarter, the revenue stood at INR 418 crore as against INR 431 crore. EBITDA and PBT stood at INR 45 crore and INR 36 crore, registering a growth of 5% each. For the full year, the revenue stood at INR 1,572 crore as against INR 1,545 crore, a growth of 2% year-on-year basis.
EBITDA and PBT stood at INR 150 crore and INR 120 crore, a growth of 23% and 32%, respectively. The increase in operating performance in this segment can be attributed to the PLI scheme, backward integration, and the increased demand for value-added products. For the steel pipe and strips segment, during Q4 of FY24, the revenue was INR 1,665 crore as compared to INR 1,721 crore. Similarly, EBITDA per metric tonne stood at INR 5,877 as compared to INR 6,156 in Q3 financial year 2024 and INR 9,868 in Q4 of FY23. PBT stood at INR 103 crore as against INR 181 crore last year. For FY24, the revenue stood at INR 6,242 crore as compared to INR 6,452 crore. Similarly, EBITDA per metric tonne stood at INR 5,401 compared to INR 6,496 year-on-year basis, while EBITDA and PBT stood at INR 436 crore and INR 325 crore, respectively.
Improved capacity utilization, working capital optimization, and cost rationalization enabled us to become a debt-free company as we repaid our total debt of INR 400 crore in financial year 2024. As on 31 March 2024, ROCE stood at 21.14% and ROE stood at 16.33%. As on 31 March 2024, the net working capital days stood at 59 days, inventory days stood at 48 days, debtor days stood at 31 days, and creditor days stood at 21 days. With this, I conclude the presentation, and we can now open the floor for further questions and answers.
Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. We will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Jatin Damania. From Svan Investments, please go ahead.
Good afternoon, Swan. Thank you for the opportunity. So first of all, congrats on achieving the zero debt and increasing the payout. So in your initial remark, you indicated that the decline in the EBITDA per ton in a steel pipe is largely attributed to a lower volume of API sales. So can you help us understand what was the overall contribution of the API sales in Q4 vis-à-vis the last quarter, Q3?
ठीक है। और कुछ?
Also, this question is basically broader on the industry. Now, when we compare our numbers with one of our largest competitors or the largest player in the industry, so if you look on the raw material front, we are quite competitive as compared to what they are. But when we come to our employees and the other expenses, we are probably at the lower end in terms of the efficiencies. So what are the steps as a company we are taking to improve that efficiency when we compare it to a larger player in the industry?
Good. Thank you.
[Foreign language] दो क्वेश्चन हैं, बट मैं इसको थोड़ा एलेबोरेट करके जो है जवाब देना चाहूंगा, जिससे बाकी लोगों के मन में भी कई सारे ऐसे प्रश्न होंगे। पहली बात तो जो मैं ओवरऑल अटकम बताया, एक तो जो आपने भी बताया कि हम पूरी तरह डेट-फ्री हैं। वर्किंग कैपिटल हो, चाहे टर्म लोन हो, हमारे पास जीरो डेट है। इनफैक्ट, हम कैश सरप्लस हैं। और यह हमारा कमिटमेंट था एक साल बाद का। एक साल पहले हमने उसको पूरा किया। दूसरा, जहां तक EBITDA की बात है, क्योंकि लास्ट ईयर जो FY22-23 के अंदर में Q4, वो सब्सटेंशियल उसके अंदर में जो है EBITDA पर टर्न था स्टील पाइप में। और मैंने उसके बाद पहले क्वार्टर में ही कहा था कि हमारा पहला टारगेट यह रहेगा कि जो अभी EBITDA आया है, उसको हम मेंटेन करें। सम हाउ, मतलब अगेंस्ट 619 करोड़ के अगेंस्ट में 586 करोड़ मेंटेन करने में हम लोग मतलब सक्सेसफुल हुए हैं। और आपने जो प्रश्न पूछा कि कितना टन कम हुआ और क्या फ्लक्चुएशन क्या था एपीआई में, कितना रिड्यूस हुआ, देखिए, ओवरऑल जो एपीआई जो स्पायरल था, जिसमें पर टन EBITDA जो है काफी 15,000 टन के आसपास आता है, अब उस सेगमेंट के अंदर में टोटल जो है 32% की डी ग्रोथ रजिस्टर्ड हुई है। मेनली वो इसलिए था क्योंकि ये जनरल इलेक्शन का साल होने की वजह से लास्ट पांच-छह महीने से ही किसी तरह के कोई PSU के कोई टेंडर वगैरह अवार्ड नहीं हुए। मुझे पूरा उम्मीद है कि Q1 से ही, मतलब इलेक्शन डिक्लेयर जैसे ही खत्म हो जाएंगे, वो ऑर्डर हमारे को हाथ में आने लग जाएंगे। उसको हम मेंटेन करेंगे। दूसरा, मैं आपको एक और चीज बताना चाहूंगा कि लास्ट ईयर जैसे Q4 के अंदर में, तब एक ट्रेंड था प्राइस इंक्रीज का, और जिसके अंदर में जो है हमें काफी सब्सटेंशियल जो है, मतलब 40-50 करोड़ के आसपास जो है अपने को प्राइस अपवर्ड ट्रेंड में था। उसका एक इन्वेंटरी गेन मिल गया था। लेकिन इस बार आप देखेंगे, करीब जो है हमको हमारे जो प्रॉफिट के अंदर में, जो स्टील के अंदर में डिक्रीज है, करीब INR 3,000 पर टन का है। और वो करीब-करीब जो है पूरे साल में INR 250 करोड़ के आसपास का उसका जो है रेवेन्यू में इंपैक्ट है। और जिंक के अंदर में INR 70,000 पर टन का जिंक डाउन हुआ है। उसका कंट्रीब्यूशन करीब INR 60 करोड़ के आसपास है। और जो गवर्नमेंट सेल का जो मैंने आपको बताया, उसका कंट्रीब्यूशन करीब INR 300 करोड़, यानी INR 610 करोड़ इन तीन वजह से हमारे रेवेन्यू में मतलब कम रही है। और जहां तक प्रॉफिट की बात है, HR Coil का इंपैक्ट करीब INR 45 करोड़ का है। और API pipe जो नहीं गया, जो जिसमें डी ग्रोथ मैंने आपको बताया, तो उसके कारण जो है करीब जो है INR 20-25 करोड़ का उसका इंपैक्ट है। ऐसे करके INR 60-65 करोड़ का वो इंपैक्ट इसके अंदर में आया हुआ है। आगे चलके मुझे लगता है वो हम रिकवर के सरपास करेंगे। लेकिन एक इंटरेस्टिंग बात मैं आपको बताना चाहूंगा, पिछले तीन साल में FY21-22 के अंदर में हमारा EBITDA परसेंटेज 5.8% था। फिर 22-23 में 7.74% हुआ। फिर 23-24 के अंदर में 7.5% है, यानी 450 करोड़ से 619 करोड़ और फिर 586 करोड़ का हमारा कंपनी का कंपनी एज ए होल का EBITDA रहा है। इवन स्टील डिवीजन के अंदर में देखेंगे, हमारा जो पर टन EBITDA 4,648 से बढ़ते-बढ़ते जो है करीब INR 5,500 पर टन के आसपास हुआ है। और आपको यह जान के हैरानी होगी, 19-20 यानी 5 साल पहले हमारा पर टन EBITDA INR 3,250 होता था। यानी पिछले 4 साल में हमारी CAGR डबल है, ऑलमोस्ट। इसी तरह लाइटिंग डिवीजन के अंदर में जो पर टन EBITDA परसेंटेज 8% होता था, जो बढ़ के इस साल जो है 9.5% हुआ है। मतलब मैं आपको एश्योर करना चाहूंगा कि आने वाले समय में और अच्छे रिजल्ट आपको दिखेंगे। मेनली आपने एक चीज बताया कि जहां तक रॉ मटेरियल की बात है, वो हम काफी कंपटिंग हैं एज कंपेयर टू पीयर्स। बट उसका जो ऑपरेशन कॉस्ट हमारी ज्यादा है, वो हम मानते हैं मेनली क्योंकि हमारी कैपेसिटी 80-85% लेवल पर हम ऑपरेट कर रहे हैं। वॉल्यूम में ग्रोथ नहीं है, इसकी वजह से वो सारी जो कॉस्ट होती है, वो ऑपरेशन के अंदर में जुड़ जाता है। एनुअली उसके अंदर में बढ़ोतरी होती रहती है। इसीलिए एक मेगा प्लान लेकर के हम आए हैं, अगले दो साल के अंदर में हम INR 500 करोड़ का Capex करेंगे। क्योंकि कंपनी कैश रीच है, कैश जनरेट हो रहा है। और जो है हमारे पास अभी या तो Capex करना है या शेयर होल्डर को रिवर्ट करना है। दो ही ऑप्शन हमारे हाथ में हैं। बैंक का तो अभी कोई देने का है नहीं। इसीलिए अगले दो साल के अंदर में INR 500 करोड़ का Capex करेंगे, जिसमें हमारी अभी जो कैपेसिटी है, वो 1.2 मिलियन से बढ़कर के 2 मिलियन की कैपेसिटी हमारी हो जाएगी। जिसके अंदर में ऑलरेडी INR 100 करोड़ के ऑपरेशन मतलब अंडर प्रोग्रेस है हमारे Capex। जो इसी साल में Q2 तक यह कंप्लीट हो जाएगा। जिसमें 15,000 टन की हमारी कैपेसिटी एनहांस होगी। एनुअली करीब 1,80,000 टन के आसपास कैपेसिटी बढ़ेगी। फिर कुछ हमारे प्रोजेक्ट ऑलरेडी हमारे काफी मतलब आगे स्टेज पर बढ़ चुके हैं, अर्ली स्टेज पर हैं, जिसमें Hindupur और Bhuj के अंदर में करीब INR 150 करोड़ का इन्वेस्टमेंट कर रहे हैं। जो लास्ट आया pipe 24 इंच की LDP pipe के अंदर में हमारी कैपेसिटी आएगी, उसकी भी एनुअली करीब 1,80,000 टन के आसपास कैपेसिटी एनहांस होगी। थर्ड, मेजर्ली हमने बोर्ड से ऑलरेडी INR 50 करोड़ का जो है लैंड एक्विजिशन के लिए जो है अप्रूवल ऑलरेडी ले चुके हैं। Maharashtra में एक नया इन्वेस्टमेंट लेकर के आ रहे हैं। और 200 से सवा करोड़ प्लांट और मशीनरी के अंदर में वहां पर खर्चा आएगा। ऐसे करके हमारी जो है INR 500 करोड़ की जो है Capex का प्लान है अगले दो साल में। हमारी कैपेसिटी बढ़ के 2 मिलियन हो जाएगी। आप ऑटोमेटिक देखेंगे कि हमारी ऑपरेशन कॉस्ट जो है आपको कम दिख जाएगी।
[Foreign language] I mean thank you for such a detailed answer. But if I look at your cash flow, then if I look at the numbers for the next two years also, then approximately INR 800 crore-INR 1,000 crore cash flow is coming to us. And against that we are doing only INR 500 crore capex. So is it necessary to assume that going forward our payout ratio, as you indicated that we will not do capex, then we will reward shareholders? So is there an indication that payout also payout ratio can increase going forward?
[Foreign language] Badhega. Kyunki teesri jagah hum kahin paisa de nahi sakte. Shareholder ki company hai. Ya to hum company mein invest karenge ya shareholder ko uska labh milega. Aur jitna main jaanta hoon ki jaise humne is saal bhi naya ek bahut aggressive target liya hai volume ke andar mein 15% ka growth. Aur hamari EBITDA kareeb INR 690-700 crore ke aaspaas hogi. Do saal ke andar mein INR 1,400 crore hoga. Theek hai, kuch growth hogi uske andar mein. Kuch working capital mein involvement hoga. Kuch additional naya jo CapEx hoga, usmein bhi kuch part working capital mein hoga. But jo kuch bhi hoga, wo sab shareholder ka hoga.
[Foreign language] Aur yeh sir, INR 690 crore-INR 700 crore ka jo EBITDA aapne bataya for FY25, lighting business ko jod kar hai, right?
[Foreign language] हां, लाइटिंग और स्टील डिवीजन करीब लाइटिंग डिवीजन के अंदर में आपने देखा होगा 8% से मैंने कहा था हम 10% की तरफ बढ़ेंगे। Q4 के अंदर में 10.55% हमारा EBITDA परसेंटेज था। और अगले साल हम मान के चलते हैं फुल ईयर में 10.5% का EBITDA होगा स्टार्टिंग Q1 फ्रॉम 9.5%। सो करीब INR 180-INR 190 crore के आसपास EBITDA एब्सलूट टर्म में लाइटिंग का रहेगा। और करीब INR 500 crore का EBITDA जो है INR 500-INR 550 crore के आसपास EBITDA स्टील डिवीजन का रहेगा। और मेरा ऐसा मानना है, हमारा प्लान भी यही है कि करीब INR 5,400-INR 5,500 पर टन। क्योंकि वॉल्यूम ग्रोथ भी काफी अग्रेसिव है, करीब 17-18% के आसपास वॉल्यूम में ग्रोथ है। और रेवेन्यू में करीब 15% का ग्रोथ है। तो उस वजह से जो है INR 5,500-INR 5,400 के आसपास EBITDA पर टन हम मेंटेन करेंगे।
[Foreign language] Theek hai sir, dhanyavaad. I mean, mere paas aur kaafi questions the, but main waapas line mein aa jaata hoon. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we will request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Shweta Dikshit from Systematix Group. Please go ahead. Please, Shweta.
[Foreign language] हेलो।
You can go ahead. Ya.
Yes, thank you. So, two questions from my side. [Foreign language] First question is that which you mentioned decline in API spiral pipes, this is something which was there in the last quarter also that means in API segment otherwise in other products there was growth, but in spiral pipes there was a decline last quarter also. And so general election's impact can understand if it came in fourth quarter, but what is the outlook now? What can we see? How can we see this segment moving forward? This is the first question. And second is that your expansion is from 1.2 million tons to two million tons, where is the focus going to be in terms of end user segment? Which ones meaning how much focus on value addition?
[Foreign language] या फिर इफ यू कैन गिव अ नंबर कि आपका कितना टारगेट कर रहे हैं कि दो-तीन साल में आपका वैल्यू एडेड शेयर कितना रहेगा सेल्स में?
The first one [Foreign language]as you told that in API there is de-growth, because general election year throughout was, so its impact in Q3 also a little was, Q4 inside also was. Largely generally it happens that in PSU inside which investments happen, those five-five years investments are. And general election time on always we have seen that a little that slow becomes system. So that which is meaning already pipeline in is. And as I told you, INR 800 crore orders in hand we have already are. And which materialize to happen meaning this coming quarter inside, so that one is. And we such believe. And we have see, capacity of also a constraint is. Last five years inside our full focus this was that somehow we debt to zero do. Because five years before we when also con call in sit were, investor's this only was that your this debt's what will do?
[Foreign language] क्योंकि आज से five[[Foreign language] साल पहले INR 1,200 crore [Foreign language]का debt होता था, आज cash surplus है कंपनी। So वो एक हमारे मतलब उसमें था, उसमें हमने अच्छा काम किया। और debt free भी हो गया। और पिछले 5 साल में market ने भी काफी support किया। लेकिन इस 5 साल में हमने कोई ऐसा focus होकर के छोटे-छोटे investment करते रहे, बड़ा investment कुछ नहीं किया। तो INR 500 crore का अगले दो साल में हम जो Capex करेंगे, वो focus हमारा इसके अंदर में जितने भी product category मैंने आपको गिनाया है, इसमें 70% जो है value added product पर ही हमारा focus है। चाहे वो API हो, चाहे वो LDP pipe हो। और 30% जैसे cold rolling और कुछ जैसे Bahadurgarh के अंदर में या एक water pipe के अंदर में investment कर रहे थे। Overall हमारा अभी जैसे पहले भी plan था, हम 50% जो है हमारा।
The management line got disconnected. Stay tuned till we connect the management line. The management line has been connected. Yes sir, go ahead.
[Foreign language] हेलो, रीकनेक्ट हो गया?
[Foreign language] यस सर।
[Foreign language] So wahi hai, immediate hamara target hai 50% jo hai hamara revenue jo hai value added product se hamara target hai. Aur mujhe lagta hai immediate ham usko achieve karenge. Aur jo naya capex INR 500 crore ka hai, usmein kareeb 70% jo hai pura investment jo hai value added product yani high margin product pe hi hai. To aage chalke jo hai 50% ke ratio ko bhi ham surpass karenge. Wo hamara focus area hai. Aur usi mein jo hai profit bhi kareeb 75% ke aaspaas overall company ka contribute karta hai.
[Foreign language] Okay, thank you sir. And one more thing, for the, like, coming this quarter in Q1, what will be your expectation in terms of EBITDA per ton? Since steel prices have increased like this in one-two months, but is this sustainable at this level?
Upward trend [Foreign language] hai. Aur volume mein bhi growth achhi hai. Aur jo trend humko dikha raha hai, so steel ke andar mein EBITDA per ton INR 6,000-INR 6,200 per ton ke aaspaas rahega. 6,000 to 6,200. Aur lighting division ke andar, jaise maine bataya ki 95% ke aaspaas rahega. So lighting mein. So lighting division ke andar mein ek positive sign yah hai, EBITDA percentage badh raha hai. Last year almost 30% jo hai price mein erosion tha. Aur humne kuch scheme ko redesign kiya tha, net price kiya tha, jiske karan revenue mein growth bahut achha nahi hai. But EBITDA percentage aur overall EBITDA absolute terms mein bhi bada hai. INR 100 crore to INR 122 crore, INR 150 crore. Aur agle saal ka hamara target INR 190 crore ke aaspaas ka hai.
[Foreign language] INR 190 crore for FY25?
Yes, for lighting division.
Lighting. Okay, thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dishant Jain from Quar Capital. Please go ahead.
Yes sir, am I audible now?
[Foreign language] यस सर।
[Foreign language] Yes, yes sir. Or namaskar sir. Sir, mera question ek ye tha ki abhi industry mein sir jo dusre players hain, wo Dubai mein plant bitha rahe hain. To aur apan already Saudi aur Middle East mein apan export karte hain. To udhar sir, EBITDA par ton pe apna ek thoda relaxation ka impact aa sakta hai? Wo to agar supply badhta hai to. Sir, mera aisa manna hai, koi bhi company ho ya individual ho, apni strength ke upar khelna chahiye. Main dusre ke balance sheet dekh ke main kyun us cheez ko follow karun?
[Foreign language] And in this, there are their own ifs and buts. See, any meaning of setting up a unit outside, you see, my material reaches Dubai from here at $12 per ton. Which reaches Dubai from Bengaluru at almost one third the price, my material, because I am located at the port. And delivery happens within 3 days. So meaning, what will happen in setting up a plant inside foreign in the future, I cannot tell right now. But immediately, our belief is that the hassle in setting up a plant outside and the operation cost that is there, it remains very high. And we have seen that when we are located inside the port, it doesn't make much difference in which shore of the port we are located. That for import export, meaning it should be a favorable destination. Therefore, we have made such a big investment inside Bhuj. Further also, we are making more investment in it. So it doesn't make a difference to us whether we are located in Europe or located in Dubai. And our capex and so on, we are increasing only in the port base plant. It will also happen in Mumbai, that will be a port facility. So it doesn't make much difference from this. And the second thing is that like inside foreign, mainly inside export or inside value added product, you need a brand very strictly. And we have, in the last 50 years the company has become, made quite investment on the brand. Whether it is on quality, whether on service, whether on relationship. Because in such value added product or inside export, material doesn't sell only on price point. So in that also, quite investment of ours has happened. And everyone has their own thinking. And our plan till now is that the atmosphere inside India, the potential that is there, the future growth that is visible ahead, because of that, the destination is more favorable for us. From here, see today, Surya Roshni is such a company that takes HR Coil from Japan and sends back pipes made to Japan, we people. So from Japan to America, Canada upwards and that is New Zealand and your Australia up to, we are exporting material, almost in 40-50 countries. Okay sir. And sir, my one second question this was fundamentally that in the industry, let's say, the steel manufacturing companies that are there, if they forward integrate and if they come in this pipe segment, then that will create a set in the industry that some impact will come in it?
[Foreign language] See kya hai ki hamara to dekho, hamari strength jo hai pipe hai. Aur main HR Coil bana ke aaj Tata aur JSW se to compete nahi kar sakta. Aur baaki jo hai, jo lower quality ka steel hota hai, uske andar mein ham deal nahi karte. Isliye hamein premium milta hai. Isliye hamein jo hai, hamara value added product zyada bikta hai. Isliye ham export mein number one hain. Isliye ham API ke andar mein number one hain. To uske andar mein kya hai, aapko heavy INR 15,000 crore ka investment chahiye. Agar aap high quality ke HR Coil banate hain, wo investment aapko karna padta hai. So us level pe abhi hamne socha nahi hai. Aur pipe ke andar mein achha availability ki koi issue hi nahi hai. Aaj Hindustan mein, chahe south ho, chahe east ho, chahe north ho, sab jagah available, readily available hai. Aur aaj Tata ho, chahe JSW ho, chahe ArcelorMittal ho, sab apni capacity ko almost double kar rahe hain. So aur jaisa maine bataya ki ham export base hain, port mein baithe hain, to import bhi hamare paas option hamesha khula rehta hai. Kahin bhi INR 1,000/ton se zyada ka variation rehta hai. To ham import bhi explore kar rahe the. To abhi tak to hamne pipe ka hi socha hai. HR Coil ya us matlab raw material ke baare mein abhi tak hamne aisa kuch socha nahi hai. Nahi sir, mera question thoda peeche tha ki lets se main pooch raha tha ki to steel company se lets se Tata, JSW, ArcelorMittal, agar wahi company pipe segment mein enter kare, kyunki unke liye supply chain extension hoga, right?
[Foreign language] Unko agar forward integrate karne ka hai, wo idhar ye pipe business mein aaye, to wo industry ke liye ek set ban sakta hai? Nahi, nahi, Tata, Tata already hai pipe segment ke andar mein. Wo but bahut jyada usmein focus area unka nahi hai, jitna mujhe pata hai. Aur kuch log usmein se jo HR Coil banane wale, main naam to nahi lunga, quit bhi kar rahe hain pipe se. Aur jo hai, shayad JSW ka pipe banane mein unka interest bhi hai. Wo explore bhi kar rahe hain, shayad Bhushan ko take over karne ke baad. Aur jo dusri category hai, jiske andar mein jisko baby coil bolte hain ya thoda sa low grade quality ka steel hota hai, wo usmein hum aaj bhi deal nahi karte aur future mein bhi nahi karenge. Okay. And sir, ek ye question tha.
[Foreign language] दिशांत?
Okay, I will join the question.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your questions to two per participant. Should you have a follow up question? We will request you to rejoin the queue. The next question is from the line of Vikas Singh from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Hello sir. [Foreign language]Avsar ke liye dhanyavad. Sir, mujhe jaanna tha jo hum 1.2 ko 2 lakh, 20 lakh ki capacity kar rahe hain higher value addition pe, to jo product mix hum dekh rahe hain, usme kya EBITDA per ton range chalta hai? Agar aap wo bata sakte hain humein to.
[Foreign language] One minute. So I tell you a little product mix ka ratio steel division ke andar mein. Hamara trade ka total overall contribution jo India mein jo distribution ke through material bechte hain, uska contribution karib 54% ke aaspaas hai. Actual user hai karib 5% ke aaspaas. Aur API jo hum spiral ho ya ERW ho, wo bechte hain PSU ko, wo karib jo hai, uska 12% ke aaspaas hai. Aur cold rolled ka contribution 12% ke aaspaas hai. Aur export ka jo hai, karib 17% ke aaspaas contribution hai. Aisa karke 100% ye hai. Aur ismein jaisa maine aapko bataya ki 45% contribution hamara value added product se hai. Aur wahi hamara jo hai, focus area hai. To sir, jab ye 60% ho jayega, do saal baad. Aapne jaise bataya, aapne jaise jaise product category wise aapne poocha, par ton EBITDA kya rahta hai?
[Foreign language] rahta hai. API ke andar mein INR 11,000 se INR 12,000 par ton EBITDA rahta hai. Vo depend karta hai order to order. Ye kareeb INR 15,000 bhi ho jata hai, kabhi INR 10,000 bhi ho jata hai. Black pipe ke andar mein contribution kareeb INR 4,500 par ton ke aaspaas rahta hai. Section mein sabse kam rahta hai, kareeb INR 2,000 par ton. Aur cold rolling bhi kareeb INR 1,500 hi hai. Jisliye thoda cold rolling ke andar mein hum INR 40 crore-INR 50 crore ka investment kar rahe hain. Usmein thoda ismein kareeb INR 1,500 par ton EBITDA ke aaspaas improvement ho jayega. Aise karke INR 5,400-INR 5,500 par ton EBITDA jointly hamara aata hai. Ji sir, actually mera prashn thoda different tha. Main ye bol raha tha jo 5,400 hai, jab aapki nai capacity aa jayegi, jismein value addition jyada hai, to vo like-to-like basis mein vo kaisa dikhta hai?
[Foreign language] Matlab wo wapas 6,500 blend pe pahunch jayega ya 7,000? Wo hum kya expect kar rahe hain jo hum mix mein plan kar rahe hain? Jo naya jo hum Capex mein plan kar rahe hain, uska jo hai contribution INR 7,500-8,000 per ton aaspaas ka rahega. So hamara jo target hai, uske baad jo hai average hamara INR 6,500-7,000 per ton ke aaspaas rahega company as a whole in steel segment. Samajh gaya sir. Sir, mera doosra prashn hai sir, lighting division mein. Ji, abhi ki jo hamari capacities hai, uske hisab se hamara ye peak revenue kya level ka ho sakta hai lighting division mein?
[Foreign language] लाइटिंग डिवीजन के अंदर में देखिए, ग्रोथ, सब्सटेंशियल ग्रोथ की उम्मीद है। कारण यह है कि पिछले 4-5 साल के अंदर में मतलब बहुत अनस्टेबल सा यह बिजनेस रहा। जब से LED आया, तब से यह बिजनेस में मैच्योरिटी आज तक नहीं दिखी। और एज अ रिजल्ट जो है, आए दिन यहां पे प्रोडक्ट चेंज हो जाते हैं, साइज चेंज हो जाती है, लेंथ चेंज हो जाती है, उसका CRI वैल्यू चेंज हो जाती है, उसकी कलर चेंज हो जाती है। सो बड़ा फैंसी टाइप जो है यह बिजनेस हो गया है। और मेनली इसका कारण यह है क्योंकि लोग जो है प्लांट पे और मशीनरी पे इन्वेस्टमेंट नहीं कर रहे हैं। और कहीं से इंपोर्ट करके बेच रहे हैं, कहीं लोकल वेंडर डेवलप करके बना रहे हैं। इसके कारण जो है मतलब कुछ मार्केट को समझ में नहीं आ रहा। और आज भी जो है 50% से ज्यादा मार्केट जो है अनऑर्गेनाइज सेक्टर के पास है। सो धीरे-धीरे उसके अंदर में जो है चेंज आ रहा है क्योंकि ऑर्गेनाइज सेक्टर और अनऑर्गेनाइज में प्राइस का वेरिएशन 50%-100% के आसपास था। अब वो हमारा भी प्राइस इलेक्शन इतना हो गया है, अब वो वेरिएशन रहा नहीं। वो वेरिएशन जो है 15%-25% तक का वेरिएशन है। और उसके अंदर में क्वालिटी इशू ज्यादा है। सो मेरा ऐसा मानना है कि हमने लास्ट ईयर भी अगर मैं प्रोडक्ट टू प्रोडक्ट, वॉल्यूम टू वॉल्यूम अगर कंपेयर करूं, 20% से ज्यादा की ग्रोथ किया था। और जैसे मैंने बताया, प्राइस इलेक्शन के साथ हमने देखा कि ओवर ए पीरियड ऑफ टाइम जो है हमारा स्कीम के अंदर में 25%-30% के आसपास स्कीम बन गया था। जो फ्री के स्कीम होते हैं या अन्य कुछ होती है। तो हमने उसको नेट प्राइस करके एक ही साथ में उसको बराबर कर दिया। सो ऐसा मेरा मानना है कि 20% रेगुलर ग्रोथ के अंदर में कोई 1% भी दिक्कत लाइटिंग डिवीजन में नहीं आएगी। और दूसरा अच्छी बात यह है कि लाइटिंग के अंदर में हमारा जो क्वालिटी रिप्लेसमेंट कॉस्ट था, वो कभी 12% होता था, घटते-घटते 3% पे आ गया है। सो क्वालिटी हमारी A1 है और ग्रोथ 20% के आसपास रहेगी। और इसमें कुछ न्यू सेगमेंट के अंदर में भी हम एंट्री कर रहे हैं। लेकिन इस बोर्ड मीटिंग के अंदर में हम उसको इंट्रोड्यूस नहीं कर पाए। होपफुली हम Q2 के आसपास जो है बोर्ड के अंदर में प्रेजेंट करके कुछ नए प्रोडक्ट कैटेगरी भी हम लाइटिंग के साथ जोड़ रहे हैं, जो ऑलरेडी हमारे 220,000 के आसपास जो हमारे रिटेल आउटलेट हैं। और बहुत सारे कॉमन प्रोडक्ट हमारे डिस्ट्रीब्यूशन में डील होती है। तो कुछ और प्रोडक्ट कैटेगरी भी हम इसमें काम कर रहे हैं। समझ गया सर। भविष्य के लिए शुभकामनाएं। Meet Sevak।
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amay from Banyan Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, [Foreign language] one data keeping question was. If I see this Q4 presentation, so EBITDA is INR 128 crore and EBITDA per ton is INR 5,877. So sir, if I reverse calculate then volume 217,000 tons comes, sir. And you have, I think, 236,000 reported. So hello?
[Foreign language] Wo per ton EBITDA net of rejection nikala hai. Isliye wo aap, ham aap usmein jod rahe honge grand total se.
Okay, okay. And sir, just one more question. Sir, what the hello?
[Foreign language] सही है, वो नेट क्वांटिटी सही है।
Sir, can you repeat please?
[Foreign language] Aisa hai ki aap FY 23, 23, 22, 23 mein bhi dekhenge to saara NWC pe hi hamari calculation hoti hai per ton EBITDA ki.
Okay, got it. And sir, just one more question. Sir, what is the update on the demerger of consumer durable business?
[Foreign language] डीमर्जर होगा तो दोनों बिजनेस का होगा। लेकिन अभी उसमें जो है कोई फैसला नहीं हुआ है। और ये इतना बड़ा डिसीजन है, जब भी होगा तो हम ऑटोमेटिकली आपको सबसे पहले बताएंगे। और जब भी होगा, वो आपसे ही होगा।
Okay, thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all the participants in the conference, please limit your questions to one per participant. Should you have a follow-up question? We will request you to rejoin the queue. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitesh Dhoot from Burman Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you sir for the opportunity. [Foreign language]My question was that sir, in the steel pipe division every company capacity quite aggressively expand kar rahi hai, chahe APL Apollo, JTL, other companies as well. So kya ismein koi overcapacity ka scenario ho sakta hai in the coming 3-4 years? And usse koi price pressure, in fact price war kind of scenario hoga? And isi se related, sir, jo secondary steel segment hai, kya aapko lagta hai ki wo segment uska apna ek market hai, wo bana rahega? Ya phir aapke jaise jo primary steel HR coil base player hain, kya unse share gain kar sakte hain?
Good question.[Foreign language] Ek to mera aisa maanna hai ki jo capacity enhance ho ho raha hai ya hum log kar rahe hain ya baaki peers mein bhi ho raha hai, mujhe lagta hai uske karan jo hai over capacity wala situation at least Hindustan mein to mujhe nahin dikhta. Kyunki 1.44 crore ki hamari aabadi hai aur INR 10 lakh crore ka capex har saal Bharat sarkar khud kar rahi hai. To mera aisa maanna hai ki kaafi opportunity aur potential at least for another 20-25 years to hai Hindustan ke liye. That is number one. Kyunki hamari demography aur aaj dekhiye, hum Bombay, Delhi mein rah kar ke humein infrastructure over-crowded dikhta hoga. But hum shahron se bahar jayenge to Hindustan mein abhi bhi matlab kaafi woh potential hai. Aur in sabke andar mein zyada main main dekh raha hoon jo steel aur aapka cement, yahi sab cheezon ke andar mein zyada inki demand hai. Ye hai. Aur doosri baat jo hai, matlab hum humne ye bhi ensure kiya hai ki aisa koi situation kyunki kya hai, jo aapne baat boli, usmein ek baat bahut pate ki ye hai ki ye bahut iske andar mein aapne dekha hoga pichle 100 saal se pipe banane ki technology mein koi farq nahin hai. So technology mein frequency nahin hote jaise lighting division mein hota hai. Doosra, ismein thoda capex karke revenue ya turnover jo aap keh lijiye, woh kaafi high hota hai. Bahut saare logon ka ye bhi lagta hai ye dhanda bahut accha hai, thode paise mein zyada turnover wali company ban jaati hai. Ye ye ek logon ke mind mein bhi rehta hai. Aur easy hai, HR coil kharido, slit karo aur roll karo, upar se welding karo, packing karo aur dispatch kar do. To ye hai. To humne isiliye humne apne aap ko thoda sa alag rakhne ka prayas kiya hai hamesha pichle 10 saal ke andar mein. Aur hum isiliye zyada value-added product ke upar mein hum focus kar rahe hain, chahe export ho. Jahan zyada difficult hai pipe banane mein, jahan thodi bhi engineering ya technology ki zarurat padti hai, jahan thoda capex zyada lagta hai, chahe export ho, chahe PSU ho, chahe oil and gas sector ho, uske andar mein humne focus kiya. Aur galvanized pipe ke andar mein bhi accha humko premium milta hai kyunki hamari brand value wahan pe dikhta hai. So woh hai. Aur ek baat aur aapne kahi thi lastly, secondary jo sales hai, jo aapka secondary steel ka jo segment hai, ye fluctuate karta hai. Ye secondary producer jitne bhi hain, jab price jo hai HR coil, primary steel aur secondary steel ke andar mein gap jo hai, 5,000 se neeche aa jaata hai, ye sab dukaane band ho jaati hain. Aur jab bhi chaar-chhe mahine baad jo ye gap badh ke 8,000 se upar aata hai, phir dukaane khul jaati hain. Ye ek hai matlab inki wajah se dikkat. But iske andar mein ye jo market ko cater karte hain, ye ek limited market hai jiske andar mein thoda halka pipe ho, halka steel ho, jisko mainly aap section square ke andar mein ye supply karte hain, to bhi wahan chal jaata hai. Kyunki unko utna, utni strength ka steel ki zarurat nahin padti. To woh ek hai. Aur gradually humne usmein bhi dekha ki market ab organize ki taraf jo hai, steel ke andar mein bhi kaafi substantially jo hai market shift hua hai. Aur hamare se main to kahunga zyada hamare peers ko saathi, unhone ismein zyada accha kaam kiya. Aur woh shift dikhta bhi hai. Aur jis segment mein aaj hum deal kar rahe hain, jaisa maine aapko bataya ki 12,000 per ton EBITDA API ke andar mein hai, galvanizing mein 6,500 hai. Jis segment mein jahan competition hai, usmein 000 per ton EBITDA bhi hai. So hamara focus isiliye jo hai value-added product pe aur engineering side pe zyada hai. Got it. Thank you sir for this.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Dani from Abans Group. Please go ahead.
good afternoon sir. [Foreign language]Mujhe yah jaanna tha ki aapne jo kaha ki CapEx aap INR 500 crore ki karoge agle 2 saal ke liye, right? To yah jo particular CapEx hai, means so isse apni capacity filhal kitni? 1.2 million hai, wo kitni ho jayegi?
Two[Foreign language] मिलियन हो जाएगी, 20 लाख टन हो जाएगा।
Okay. [Foreign language] So abhi filhal 1.29 hai ya wo FY25 mein kitni ho jayegi?
[Foreign language] FY25 ke andar mein. Aisa hai ki total jo hum kareeb hai, hamari 15,000 tons ki capacity badh rahi hai, to saal mein 180,000 tons ho jayega. Lekin ismein kya hai ki ye full achieve nahi hoga. Kyunki aap Q2, Q3 mein jaakar ke jo hai operation start honge. So iska jo hai kareeb 40% ke aaspaas jo hai hamare ko isi saal mein benefit mil jayega in terms of revenue.
[Foreign language] Okay. Aur FY26 se 2 million tons ki hum karne ki soch rahe hain, barabar?
[Foreign language] हां, हां, हां।
[Foreign language] Yes. And you said that 15%-18% sort of volume growth you expect for FY25 and similar for FY26.
[Foreign language] जी।
[Foreign language] Pehle maine aise suna tha ki aapne kaha INR 5,400-INR 5,500 ka EBITDA per ton aap is saal ke liye soch rahe ho. Aur aapne INR 6,500-INR 7,000 kaha tha, wo kya 2026 ke liye hai ya thoda long term ke liye hai?
[Foreign language] Nahin, thoda long term ke liye hai. Kyunki usmein 2 cheezein hamko ye dekhni padegi. Kyunki ye capex lagna padega, phir commission bhi honi padegi, phir material maal bikna bhi padega. To woh thoda long term aap maan ke chaliye, 3 saal ka hamara target hai woh.
[Foreign language] ठीक है। और ये INR 500 crore सिर्फ स्टील के लिए है ना? लाइटिंग के लिए कुछ नहीं है, राइट?
lighting [Foreign language] ka hamara saal mein jo hai INR 25 crore ka investment hamara fixed hai. Aur humne PLI mein bhi kareeb INR 25 crore ka investment kiya tha. Aur pehla installment humko repayment bhi aa gaya sarkar se, kareeb INR 2 crore ke aaspaas. So wo hai. Aur jo ye main INR 25 crore tab bol raha hoon, kuch naye product category ke andar mein hum log enter kar rahe hain. To wo sab milkar agle 30 saal ke andar mein kareeb INR 100 crore ka investment lighting division mein bhi hoga.
it. And finally, [Foreign language] aapne jo ye INR 500 crore ka bola, uska asset turnover bhi same hi rahega jo currently hai?
[Foreign language] हां, सेम रहेगा वो।
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Miraj from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
[Foreign language] Dhanyavaad sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Most of my questions have been answered. Khali ek do clarification sir mujhe chahiye tha. Firstly, aapne jo bataya ki INR 50 crore ka land acquisition kiya hai, is it in Maharashtra? Kahan par kiya hai? Mujhe firstly yeh jaanna hai. And second, sir, aapne jo announcement aapne in starting ek do question mein aapne bataya tha ki 32% de-growth dekha hai due to election impact. So just want to re-confirm, jo maine barabar suna tha, yeh API grade pipes ke liye hi hua hai 32% de-growth?
[Foreign language] API mein bhi do category hai. Ek to ERW segment hai aur dusra spiral hai. Mainly spiral mein LDP pipe deal hoti hai, wo 18-inch se upar ki pipe hoti hai, size hoti hai. To uske andar mein jo hai de-growth hai. Aur baaki jo hai, matlab ERW kareeb kareeb hamara API ke andar mein flat hai. Aur dusra kya poocha tha aapne?
[Foreign language] दूसरा, सर, जो आपने INR 50 crore?
[Foreign language] Haan, haan, wo under process hai. Wo Maharashtra mein hi hai. Aur jagah to haan, matlab mujhe lagta hai abhi hum disclose nahi karenge jagah. Lekin Maharashtra mein hi hai, matlab airport se 1.5 ghante ki doori pe hai.
No worries, no worries, sir. Chalega. Thank you so much and all the best for the future.
Thank you, G.
Thank you. Due to time constraint, that will be the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to Mr. B.B. Singal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you everyone for joining us today on this evening call. We appreciate your interest in Surya Roshni Limited. I sincerely once again.
Management line got disconnected. Please stay connected till we connect the management line. The management line has been connected.
Thank you everyone for joining us today on this evening call. We appreciate your interest in Surya Roshni Limited. I sincerely once again thank our Managing Director, Executive Director and the CEO for sparing their valuable time and addressing queries raised by participants who attended the call. For any further queries, any contact SGA, our Investor Relation advisor. Thanks once again.
Thank you. On behalf of Surya Roshni Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.