Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Surya Roshni Limited Q2 and H1 FY2024 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of the future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Raju Bista, Managing Director at Surya Roshni Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Namaskar, good evening. On behalf of Surya Roshni Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to everyone for joining us today. Before starting the call today, I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a very happy Diwali. On this call, we are joined by Mr. Tarun Baldua, our CEO, Steel Operations; Mr. Jitendra Agrawal, CEO, Lighting and Consumer Durables; our investor advisor, SGA; and our company secretary, Mr. B.B. Singhal. I hope everyone had an opportunity to go through the financial results, press release, and investor presentation, which has been uploaded on the stock exchange as well as on our company website. Surya Roshni is celebrating its golden jubilee year in FY 2022, 2023, 2024, marking 50 years of excellence in steel pipes, electrical appliances, and consumer durable industry.
Surya Roshni products are trusted by millions of consumers in India and around the world, and the company has a very strong presence in global market with export to over 50 countries. As Surya Roshni celebrates its golden jubilee year, the company is poised to enter a very new phase of growth and development. The company has a very strong foundation, a very clear vision, and a talented team to execute its plans. I am confident that Surya Roshni will continue to achieve new heights in years to come. On this special occasion, I would like to thank all of our stakeholders, employees, customers, and partners for their continued support over the years. To reward the shareholder on our golden jubilee, our Board of Directors approved an interim dividend at 50% of the face value.
Now moving on to the highlights of the quarter. Due to favorable volume growth in steel pipe and value-added goods in lighting and consumer durable segment, the firm reported a better profitability on a year-over-year basis, despite a marginal fall in revenue. Due to the successful implementation of backward integration strategies and favorable volume growth, the company witnessed a notable improvement in its EBITDA, which increased by 6% to reach INR 139 crore. Furthermore, the company achieved a commendable EBITDA margins of 7.3% for the quarter, company as a whole. Over the past few years, our company has placed its emphasis on reducing the debt.
Even during the H1 FY 2024, in the last six months, the debt reduced by almost INR 190 crore, and the debt-to-equity ratio stood at 0.11 as of 30th September 2023. With this, the company intends to become debt free by next year. Coming to lighting and consumer durables, that segment recorded a revenue of INR 377 crore in Q2 FY 2024, which is almost similar to the corresponding period last year. This was achieved despite the shift in festival seasons from Q2 to Q3 in the current financial year as compared to the previous year, when the company recorded revenue related to the festive season in Q2 FY 2023 as well.
Both Q2 FY 2024 and H1 FY 2024 have demonstrated enhanced profitability, aligning with the management previously communicated expected, and highlighted in their commentary during preceding quarters. Now, despite observing favorable volume growth even in lighting segment, but we experienced price reduction in the range of about 15%-20% on a year-on-year basis and 10%-15% during H1 FY 2023, resulting in flattish revenue performance. Our company has consistently demonstrated a proactive approach to backward integration, leveraging our investments in the PLI program. This strategic move has not only enhanced our competitiveness within the market, but also has resulted in improved operating profitability at an EBITDA margin level to 9.3% for Q2 FY 2024.
The professional lighting segment recorded 20% growth in Q2 and 23% in H1. The robust expansion of professional lighting segment can be primarily attributed to the concurrent growth observed in both private as well as government-led investment. The consumer lighting has also experienced decent volume growth. The consumer lighting segment has exhibited robust growth in various categories such as LED, LED batten and downlighter, decorative lighting and other solar lighting, with impressive double-digit volume growth expansion. Within the consumer durable segment, certain segment has exhibited robust growth. The strong growth in these subcategories was also aided by the successful introduction of 12 innovative brand models and 16 consumer appliances product in FY 2024 Q2. PVC pipe has witnessed 11% growth in Q2.
During the upcoming quarters, our company will continue to strategically introduce a diverse range of very innovative products within the lighting consumer durable business segment. This forthcoming product launches are expected to contribute significantly to our overall growth and market presence. We are hopeful of achieving double-digit revenue growth for whole FY 2024 on the back of better H2 FY 2024 in terms of profitability. We hope to achieve our target that we have outlined in our previous commentary. Our strategic focus remain on bolstering our market presence and brand recognition through intensified investment in advertising and marketing. These efforts aim to augment our market share and enhance the visibility of our brand.
Additionally, we are committed to fortifying our dealers and distributor network by implementing a range of engaging initiatives. Based on our analysis, it is anticipated that our lighting and consumer durable segment will exhibit a very positive performance in H2 FY 2024 and FY 2025, provided that all sectors of Indian economy maintain their current growth trajectory. Now, moving on to the steel pipe business. The segment has experienced a good volume growth of about 12%, which was overshadowed by the downward pricing pressure ranging from 10%-15% across different grades of steel during FY 2024, H1, FY 2024. On the full year basis, we continue to anticipate a 12%-13% volume growth.
Our optimism stems on the back of strong order book of about almost INR 800 crore, especially from oil and gas segments, for API Pipes, as well as the potential for growth in domestic market as well, which we believe will help mitigate any potential shortfalls we may encounter in the exports market. Within API Pipes, the line pipe business has experienced a deceleration in order due to the upcoming general election. Other key business sector for API Pipes order is from city gas distribution sector, which has demonstrated commendable growth and has a potential outlook. We expect a very positive business momentum for GI Pipes, too, to persist throughout the fiscal year 2024 and 2025. Lastly, we remain confident about the opportunities that lie ahead of us.
The company is focusing on geographical expansion, innovation, efficiency, enhancement, infrastructure, and human and capital to deliver the best class solution to our customers. Now I would like to request our CFO, Mr. B.B. Singhal, to share his thoughts.
Thank you, respected MD, sir. A very good evening to all the participants on the call. On the quarter, despite marginal decline in revenue, EBITDA and PAT grew by 6% and 12% year-over-year to INR 139 crore and INR 76 crore respectively. For first half of financial year 2024, the revenue was INR 3,791 crore as compared to INR 3,824 crore. EBITDA and PAT stood at INR 255 crore and INR 135 crore, as compared to INR 202 crore and INR 90 crore respectively. The increase in operating performance can be attributed to the PLI scheme, backward integration, and the increased demand for value added products.
In Lighting and Consumer Durables, for the quarter, the revenues stood at INR 377 crore as against INR 383 crore. EBITDA and PBT stood at INR 35 crore and INR 28 crore, registering a growth of 14% and 21% respectively. For the half year, the revenues stood at INR 751 crore as against INR 718 crore, a growth of 5% on year-on-year basis. EBITDA and PBT stood at INR 68 crore and INR 58.4 crore, a growth of 13% and 46% respectively.
In the steel pipes and strips, during second quarter of financial year 2024, the company's revenues stood at INR 1,539 crore, while the EBITDA witnessed a growth of 3% year-on-year basis, with an EBITDA per metric ton of INR 5,104 per metric ton. PBT for the quarter grew by 11% to INR 76 crore. For H1 financial year 2024, revenues stood at INR 3,042 crore, while EBITDA and PBT grew by 25% and 55% year-on-year basis to INR 187 crore and INR 131 crore respectively. As of 30th September 2023, the company has reduced debt by INR 190 crore and continues to remain long-term debt free.
Net debt-to-equity ratio , net equity reduced to 0.11x multiple as on 30th September 2023. As on 30th September 2023, the net working capital days stood at 55 days, inventory days stood at 52 days, debtor days stood at 32 days, and creditor days stood at 19 days. As on 30th September 2023, ROCE improved by 439 basis points and stood at 20.2% as compared to 15.8% in the last quarter. ROE stood at 15.57% as compared to 12.49% as on 30th June 2023, a growth of 8 basis points. With this, I conclude the presentation and we can now open the floor for further question- and- answer.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question- and- answer session. Participants present on the audio bridge, who wishes to ask question, may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question- and- answer session. Participant present on the audio bridge who wishes to ask question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Your first question is from the line of Jatin Damania from Svan Investment Managers.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. So just wanted to understand that for the steel pipes, you said that you have in terms of volume term, you have grown by almost 10%-15%, but because of the lower realization, there was a hit. So want to understand, is there any one off or inventory loss that we have taken during the quarter due to which EBITDA per ton has come down? Or so how shall one look at the operating performance going for the next couple of quarters?
Yeah, Mr. Jatin, thank you very much. See, steel division, inside of it, there is not much, around INR 400-INR 500 per ton, which is the impact of this quarter. But, as I said, there is a 12% growth in volume, and we believe that we will maintain 12%-13% growth, volume growth throughout the year. In particularly, within this quarter, FY 2023's- around INR 3,000 per ton is less in the name of steel. And if I look at the comparison of the previous quarter, that is, Q1 versus Q2, the price is around INR 1,000 per ton, is in a downtrend.
Sir, have we taken any inventory loss this quarter, or, I mean, have we properly hedged in terms of the raw material?
INR 400-INR 500 per ton EBITDA per ton loss we have taken.
That means that the per ton, which is now more than INR 5,100, we can understand that it will be around INR 5,500-INR 5,600.
As I said earlier in the commentary, generally it is also like this, that Q3, Q4, festival and like agriculture, etc., South India market, everything is there, so what we, what we had commented on before as well, is on the same line. It is certain that the demand for this product will not decrease.
... थोड़ा ये रेवेन्यू बराबर होने के कारण जो हमारी एक्सपेक्टेशन थी, उससे मैं ऐसा कह सकता हूं कि थोड़ा उससे थोड़ा डाउन है, बट उसको हम कवर कर लेंगे। कि Q3, Q4 के अंदर।
सर, ये तो बहुत अच्छी बात है कि second half हमारे लिए strong रहेगा। सर हम अपनी steel pipe में या हम लोग expansion भी कर रहे थे। 1 million to 1.2 जो 2 लाख सेंटीज, उसका क्या status है सर अभी और कब तक वो plan capacity आ जाएगी?
ऐसा है, तीन हम लोग इन्वेस्टमेंट कर रहे हैं, जो हमारी NCR में बहादुरगढ़ में फैक्ट्री है। उसमें INR 40 करोड़ का इन्वेस्टमेंट जो है, कोल्ड रोलिंग में कर रहे हैं। वो ऑलरेडी एग्जीक्यूशन उस पे स्टेज पे है और जो हिंदुपुर में INR 75 करोड़ का LDP और GP के लिए इन्वेस्टमेंट था, वो उसका लैंड एक्विजिशन का काम कम्पलीट हो गया। उसमें थोड़ा टाइम सरकार से जमीन लेनी थी, तो इसलिए थोड़ा टाइम लगा और जो बाकी इक्विपमेंट वगैरह प्रोसेस में है और थर्ड इन्वेस्टमेंट LDP पाइप में हम लोग कर रहे हैं। भुज यानी अंजार। टेक्निकल टीम जो है, उस पर काम कर रही है। अभी हमने उसकी टेक्नोलॉजी, मशीन वगैरह फाइनल स्टेज पर है, ऐसा कह सकते हैं।
तो सर, करीबन FY-2026 है।
Yeh agle saal jo hai. Matlab jaise Bahadurgarh wala jo NCR wala hai, woh kareeb 9 mahina lagega aur baaki dono project kareeb saal bhar lagega. Matlab complete hone mein.
As you have told that we are almost closer to debt-to-equity 0.1 so like that our cash if I if see then INR 400 crore we people add doing are and we will be generating another INR 400 crore next year. So our capital allocation policy what is? I mean can you give us the idea and has Board decided any dividend distribution policy to reward the shareholder, like you have INR 2.5 then this quarter given announce done for celebrating of 50 years. But how shall we look going ahead, how shall we look forward, capital allocation and dividend distribution policy.
ऐसा है कि आपने अच्छा बताया। मैं कई बार यह बात बताया हूं कि देखिए, जो भी हम लोग कैश जनरेट करेंगे, उसका करीब करीब आधा हम लोग एनुअली जो है, CapEx के ऊपर में खर्च करेंगे और बाकी जो भी होगा, वह शेयरहोल्डर का धन होगा।
Okay, last question on the steel pipe. As you had told last time that problem will reach to 10% EBITDA margin and we are closer to that. So is there any further improvement one can expect on the steel and steady state ke hisab se 10% margin one can assume going forward?
आप लाइटिंग का पूछ रहे हैं क्या?
Haan, sir, lighting se.
हां, ऐसा है कि जैसे आपने देखा होगा, 8% से हम जो है 9. मैंने लास्ट टाइम बताया था कि हम 10% पर रहेंगे तो Q3, Q4 में मतलब Q3 में 11% से ऊपर का रहेगा. Q4 में भी ऐसा ही रहेगा. तो 10 यानी डबल डिजिटल हम कर पार करेंगे. जो हमारा कमिटमेंट था तो बिटवीन 10-11% कहीं हम लोग लैंड करेंगे, ऐसा मुझे लगता है. और लाइटिंग डिविजन में ऐसा है, हम लोग काफी प्रोडक्ट मिक्स जो है, हम लोग चेंज कर रहे हैं. हायर वैल्यू आइटम पर हमारा फोकस शिफ्ट हुआ है और टियर टू टियर थ्री के अलावा टियर वन सिटी पर हम लोग पहुंच रहे हैं और अभी देश भर में मतलब एक्रॉस पैन इंडिया लेवल पर हमारे जो है, इलेक्ट्रीशियन और रिटेलर के जो है, मिक्स वगैरह होते हैं. लाइटिंग में एक जरूर है कि आपको जैसे मैंने कमेंट में बताया कि 10-15% जो है प्राइस एरोजन हुआ है. यानी ओवरऑल कॉम्पिटिशन ने भी उतने दाम कम किए हैं, लेकिन उसके बावजूद भी हमारे मार्जिन्स में इंप्रूवमेंट इसलिए है, क्योंकि हमने बैकवर्ड इंटिग्रेशन किया और दूसरा जो है, परचेज के अंदर में काफी हम लोग एडवांस स्टेज तक जाकर के हमने नेगोशिएट किया और थर्ड जो बड़ा रोल उसमें यह है कि हमने काफी जो है, इनोवेशन के ऊपर में ध्यान दिया. इन सबके कारण जो है मतलब इतना प्राइस फॉल होने के बावजूद भी मार्जिन्स में इंप्रूवमेंट दिख रहा है.
Thank you, sir! And wishing the entire team a very happy Diwali. Thank you.
Ek cheez aur tha lighting division mein agar revenue hum flat ko dekh rahe hain, but agar woh humein price jo erosion hai, usko jod lo to usmein bhi jo hai, 17%-18% ka volume mein growth hai.
Thank you sir.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask question, press star and one on the touch tone phone. The next question is from the line of Shweta Dikshit from Systematix, so please go ahead.
Hello, hi. Good evening. Thank you for the possibility. Sir, can you give some indication of the volume outlook in the second half steel segment and what is the capacity utilization this quarter and what are you expecting in the coming quarter?
So jaise aapne matlab volume ke baare mein poocha to H2 FY 2024 ke andar mein kareeb agle do quarter mein 500,000 tons ke aaspaas ka volume hoga aur jo hai capacity utilization kareeb 78%-80% hai. Matlab depending thoda kisi plant mein zyada hai, kam hai, but average 78%-80% hai. To poore saal mein agar hum volume ki baat karen to 900,000 tons + mein hum log rahenge.
Okay, any view on the volume next year, which is actually the capacity. The line, the line, the line has dropped. The next question is the line.
Bata dena hum 1 million plus karenge next year.
Okay sir, the next question is from the line of Ruchita Ghadge from iWealth. Please go ahead.
Hello sir, very good evening! So basically my question was that currently sir how much is value added as a percentage of your total mix and in the second half like for the full year as we expecting that we should do around 6,500 EBITDA per ton. So you know, how do we see the sales mix changing in the second half. You know, which would help us to get that kind of EBITDA per ton. So right now, please add to question.
Right now, value-added abhi hamara kareeb 35% ke aaspaas hai, 35% ke aaspaas, Q3 Q4 mein yeh segment jo hai, kareeb 40-42% ke aaspaas jo hai, iska contribution rahega. Jaise aapne bataya, EBITDA per ton last year kareeb hamara jo tha, uske comparison mein humne 6,500 ke badle humne kaha tha, is saal hum log 6,000 per ton ka karenge to matlab uske aaspaas rahenge. Matlab 5,500 se lekar 6,000 INR per ton EBITDA ke aaspaas throughout the year ka hamara per ton EBITDA rahega.
And so you expecting going ahead also for this to sustain and expected to improve going ahead.
नहीं, इसको सस्टेन भी करेंगे और इंप्रूव भी करेंगे, क्योंकि जैसा मैंने बताया, ग्रैजुअली हमारा जो वैल्यू एडेड प्रोडक्ट है, वह कंटीन्यूअसली हम लोग स्टील में भी लाइटिंग में भी उसको बढ़ा रहे हैं और थोड़े स्पेशल प्रोडक्ट और ओरिएंटेड होकर के काम कर रहे हैं। सो मुझे लगता है मतलब सस्टेन तो करेंगे, बट इंप्रूवमेंट भी उसमें दिखेगा और आप पिछले दस साल का ट्रैक रिकॉर्ड देखेंगे तो भी भले ही इंडस्ट्री में कई बार उतार चढ़ाव आए, उसके बावजूद भी सूर्य रोशनी स्टेबल होकर के एक रीजनेबल ग्रोथ हम लोग करते रहेंगे।
Okay and sir, if you could just mention how has the trend been of this value added over the last five years, has this improve or it has been stagnant and what we expect going ahead?
roughly this if last 5-6 years' thing I talk about, 10%-12% from today we 35% till reached are. We have our complete focus shift done is. So coming time in same way gradually meaning our immediate target this is that at least 50% product we that on deal will do, in which whatever value added will be, in which margins slightly better will be.
Okay, and this you intend to achieve by which year?
Matlab mujhe lagta hai next to next year hum log 50% ke level par aa jayenge. Aur precisely main abhi dekh raha tha. Matlab FY 2018-2019 humne start kiya tha 9% se, jo abhi hum 35% dikha rahe hain.
Okay, okay, okay sir, okay, okay, sir, I will get back in the queue. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question, press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Kuber Chauhan from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Ya, I am audible.
येस सर।
Yes sir, I have a couple of questions over here. Jaise ki hum log jaise ki aapne bola ki lighting division mein hum log zyada growth dekh rahe hain, compare to steel division. Are we saying that our primary focus would be on lighting division from now, because steel price aur steel mein thoda sa shakeout hua hai. Are we saying that.
नहीं, हमारा फोकस दोनों जगह बराबर है, क्योंकि हमारी दोनों एक्सक्लूसिव अलग अलग टीम है। मैं एक कॉमन व्यक्ति हूं। अदरवाइज CEO से लेकर के नीचे लेवल तक जो है, दो अलग अलग टीम है। उनका अपना अपना अलग अलग विजन है और हमारी फोकस दोनों पर है और दोनों सेगमेंट ही अच्छे कर रहे हैं।
Okay, okay and how we are seeing steel prices now, like second half jo hai second half of FY 2024 hai, to usmein ham outlook kya rahega and how we are witnessing it. Ki abhi kaise hai, kaisa stable hai ya phir we are witnessing some more correction.
बहुत ज्यादा गुंजाइश नहीं है और बहुत ज्यादा जो है, वोलेटाइल भी नहीं रहा। पिछले तीन चार महीने की बात करें तो जैसे अभी 57,500 के आसपास जो है, HR Coil के रेट है इंडिया में। तो थोड़ा 1,000-1,500 रुपए का एक करेक्शन फ्यूचर में या अगले दो महीने में हो सकता है, उतनी गुंजाइश अभी दिखती है। तीन चार महीने तक का जो मुझे दिखता है, वो बता रहा हूं। बाकी तो प्रिडिक्ट करना बहुत मुश्किल है।
Okay, so we are seeing ki Q3 mein bhi aise hi numbers rahenge. In terms of steel division we can say that.
Q3 mein hamare isse behtar result milenge. Terms of volume aur margins mein bhi improvement dikhenge, par ton ke hisab se.
... Okay, okay, and even in lighting division, sir, abhi festival season jo start Diwali to start hui hai, aane wali hai. So how we are witnessing that also and are we witnessing this uptick ahead also.
ऐसा है लाइटिंग डिवीजन के अंदर में क्योंकि सीजन दिवाली सीजन भी शिफ्ट हुआ है। इस क्वार्टर में यानी कि Q3 के अंदर में उधर से 9.3 है। 11%+ का जो है, EBITDA मार्जिन की फ्री में लाइटिंग डिवीजन में एक्सपेक्टेड है।
19% right.
No 11 point.
इलेवन पॉइंट
11%+ जो है, EBITDA % Lighting Division expected है।
Okay, okay sir, that's it from my side and happy Diwali to you all.
Thank you, ji! Thank you.
you, participants who wish to ask a question, press star and one on the touchtone phone. The next question is from the line of Shreyans from Svan Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Hello, can you hear me, sir!
Ji ji ji yes.
सर, मुझे यह समझना था अपना CapEx guidance क्या होगा? सर for FY 2024 and FY 2025।
FY 2024 जो current year है, उसके अंदर में हमने अभी तक INR 200 crore का approval लिया है board से और next year के लिए हमारी करीब INR 100 crore की हमारी requirement रहेगी। ये दोनों साल मिलाकर के करीब जो है, INR 300 crore-INR 325 crore का आसपास का CapEx होगा। 2024 and 2025 में।
ओके, सर ये समझना था, अपना जो 200-225 करोड़ का जो डेट है, अभी तो वो ये साल रीपे हो जाएगा कि FY 2025 में भी थोड़ा डेट होगा।
200 crore रह गया है और हमारा स्टॉक लेवल भी हाईएस्ट लेवल पे इस समय है। मुझे ऐसा लगता है कि मैं प्रीसाइजली ये तो नहीं कहूंगा कि FY H2 में पूरा हो जाएगा। अगले साल FY 2025 के H1 में जरूर हम लोग डेट फ्री हो जाएंगे, क्योंकि प्रीसाइजली अभी INR 200 crore के आसपास ही डेट हमारा रह गया है बैलेंस।
Okay and sir, ek October ka ek just outlook lena tha. Aap se steel segment mein apna volume aur EBITDA par turnover kaisa ramp up ho raha hai aur you could give some understanding on that.
No, abhi abhi to result baki hai, but accha gaya hai. October lighting ho ya steel division ho.
Theek hai, theek hai sir.
And as I told you, Q3 Q4 anyway improve and in our case whether lighting segment or steel division, originally also always what is, you will also see our past results then Q3, Q4 meaning i.e. in comparison to H1, H2 substantial better position on remains.
Theek hai aur sir, aapne starting mein bataya tha ki capital allocation mein hamari policy is 50% towards CapEx and 50% towards dividend. To apan jo INR 300 crore ka guidance de rahe hain, towards CapEx aur this year and next year combined wo to kam ho gaya na sir phir.
नहीं, मैं कंबाइंड में दिया है। कभी INR 100 करोड़ कम भी होगा, कभी INR 100 करोड़ ज्यादा भी होगा। प्रीसाइजली INR 200 करोड़ खर्च करूंगा तो ऐसा तो कोई हो नहीं सकता। ऑन मतलब जनरल उसमें अगर मैं कहूं तो करीब आधा के आसपास हम लोग CapEx रेगुलर बेसिस पर करेंगे। ये तो एक एक्सपेक्टेड लाइन पर बता रहा हूं। मान लीजिए कल को एक नई फैक्ट्री लगानी पड़ती है तो उसमें एक ही प्लांट के अंदर में करीब INR 200, INR 200 करोड़ का इन्वेस्टमेंट होगा। डिपेंड करेगा, किसी साल कम, किसी साल ज्यादा और इस साल थोड़ा सा हमारा। ये तीन चार महीने थोड़े प्रोजेक्ट जो हमने बोर्ड से अप्रूव कराए हुए थे, उसमें थोड़ा डिले भी हुआ है। कई कारणों से इसलिए भी जो है, अगले साल हम लोग INR 100-INR 125 करोड़ के आसपास ही ऐसा मुझे लगता है कि FY 2025 में कर पाएंगे।
Theek hai aur sir, khaali ye lighting mein samajhna tha, apna pipe ka kitna hoga sir, ismein contribution.
jis ka Capex mein.
नहीं नहीं, अपना जो रेवेन्यू है, लाइटिंग सेगमेंट में है, उसमें पीवीसी पाइप का कॉन्ट्रिब्यूशन कितना होगा?
करीब पूरे साल का 1,600-1,625 करोड़ के आसपास का जो लाइटिंग का हमारा रेवेन्यू रहेगा, उसमें 90-100 करोड़ के आसपास जो है पीवीसी पाइप का रहेगा।
okay, thank you. I will come back to the queue.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co. Please go ahead.
Namaskar, Gupta ji!
धन्यवाद सर मौके के लिए। सर, जैसे आपने यह उल्लेख किया बात की हिस्टोरिकली हमारा H1 लोअर रहता है, H2 से और अगर हम लास्ट ईयर के H1 से करंट ईयर के H1 को कंपेयर करें तो सिग्निफिकेंट ग्रोथ है और लास्ट ईयर से अगर मेरी याददाश्त सही है तो लास्ट ईयर हमें इन्वेंटरी गेन H2 में सिग्निफिकेंट मिला था। माने द EBITDA पर टन जो हमारा स्टील बिजनेस का है, वो सिग्निफिकेंटली हायर था, जो इस साल उतना ऊंचा नहीं दिखता है। 9,000 प्लस हो गया था, if I am not wrong। आप मुझे करेक्ट कर दीजिएगा। तो अगर ये सारी चीजों को एस्पेक्ट में लिया जाए तो लास्ट ईयर के नंबर के आसपास हम पहुंचते हुए दिखते हैं। सर क्योंकि लास्ट ईयर का हमको जो इन्वेंटरी का गेन था, वो अभी स्टील में शायद एक्सपेक्टेड नहीं हो सकता है। ऐसा ऐसा आकलन करना सही है सर कि अगर आप करेक्ट कर दीजिए मुझे।
ऐसा है कि देखिए मतलब 2024 और 2025 जो है मतलब जो H2 है, हमारा almost similar line पे रहेगा और जैसे मैंने बताया कि हमारा पिछले साल मतलब एक fourth quarter substantial काफी अच्छे... number side है। इसलिए हमने शुरुआत में ही पहले ही Q1 के guidelines में भी ये कहा था, guidance में भी कि 6,500 के comparison में करीब 6,000 रुपए per ton EBITDA के आसपास हम लोग करेंगे, तो उसी line से expected है। 100-200 crore रुपए कम हो सकता है। ये आने वाला समय बताएगा कि 100-200 रुपए per ton।
Theek hai sir. Dhanyavaad sir aur shubh deepavali sir sabhi ko. Thank you, thank you!
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shweta Dikshit from Systematix Group. Please go ahead.
Hi, am I audible, sir? I think line se drop connection issue ho gaya tha. Ek baar aap ye bataayenge kya, jo aapka capacity expansion to 200 KTPA ka aayega. Usme to some lighting ki value added product portfolio ka kaise hoga usme split?
नहीं, मतलब जो कैपेक्स का हमारा है, आप पूछ रहे हैं उसमें वैल्यू एडेड पर इन्वेस्टमेंट कितना फोकस कैसा होगा? यही ना।
Haan, jaise matlab poori 200 KTPA ki expansion hai na. 2,000 tons
तो उसमें करीब INR 150 crore हमारा जो है वो वैल्यू एडेड प्रोडक्ट पर इन्वेस्टमेंट हो रहा है और INR 40-50 crore हम जो है, कोल रोलिंग में कर रहे हैं।
Okay, okay theek hai aur rest of my question par answers. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ruchita Ghadge from iWealth. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir! So just one more question on the on this value addition. So sir for every 1% value addition how much does your EBITDA per ton improve, if you can give a ballpark number.
अच्छा, ये प्रोडक्ट टू प्रोडक्ट डिपेंड करता है और प्रिसाइजली मतलब एग्जैक्ट नंबर्स बताना, इतना सरल नहीं है। बट फिर भी 啊 ... मतलब ये बहुत कुछ प्रोडक्ट टू प्रोडक्ट और प्रोडक्ट मिक्स पर डिपेंड करता है।
Okay, okay, okay, because right now when you are at 35%, we are expecting around, you know, 4,500-6,000 EBITDA per ton and you are saying by FY 2025, this mix would become 50% you know. So just like APL Apollo Tubes, just for comparison sir, they have 60% and something is the value added and they make around 6,000 EBITDA per ton. So can we go to that on a sustainable basis, just for my understanding.
No, I can make my point, I mean. But if you compare even with peers, meaning apple to apple. If segment-wise you look, then I think that in our peer group comparison, our EBITDA per ton, you will get better. So from that, it reflects that meaning the value added, its quantity or its contribution how much percent is.
Understood, understood and sir this value added would be your API and your GI pipes right basically.
Yes, API galvanized and export market too.
एक्सपोर्ट मार्केट और हम जो अभी आगे
इसके डेफिनिशन बहुत सारे हो सकते हैं, तो उस पर भी बहुत कुछ डिपेंड करेगा।
Okay, okay, theek hai sir understood, understood. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask question, press star and one on the touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Miraj Shah from Arihant. Please go ahead.
Thank you so much sir, opportunity ke liye. Sir, bas do question hai. First one ki aapne jaise CapEx highlight kiya, three different CapEx that we are planning, plans timeline ke saath. Sir, uska total revenue potential kitna hoga? Keeping in mind the current prices only. And secondly sir, currently steel side mein business mein our export sales ka contribution kitna hoga? Just two question. Thank you. Yes, yeh kareeb jo INR 200 crore ka jo hamara CapEx hoga, iska jo hai contribution additional kareeb 20% ke aaspaas hoga. Yani paune do, do lakh ton ke aaspaas hoga aur jo aapne segment ki baat kahi. Main aapko batana chaahunga, specially aapne poocha export ka to export ka segment ka hamara contribution 18% hai precisely.
Currently 18% of steel only or total sales in?
स्टील, स्टील।
Okay and sir, value term jo hum log Capex kar rahe hain, uska kitna additional kar sakta hai total revenue value terms mein?
वही मतलब मैंने बताया ना, करीब जो है INR 1,000 करोड़ के आसपास यानी 20% के आसपास उसका इफेक्ट आएगा।
Okay, thank you sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yogesh Mittal, individual investor. Please, please go ahead sir.
Hi sir! Sir, thanks for giving me this opportunity. I wanted to ask a question regarding the sector, sir, mainly in the steel pipes like it is, if you can just categorize the top three sectors or top four sectors like structural steel and like the agricultural pipes and like. Or like that. So if you can give the top three or top four users the segment.
Main agar aapko baat karun to hamara bada segment to hai trade and distribution ka segment, which contributes about 55% aur yah basically agriculture hai aur structural pipe ismein aur jo hai, hamara jo PSU aur jo API ka contribution kareeb 16% hai aur cold rolling jo ham jo automobile ke ancillary wagaira ko dete hain, automobile company ko dete hain, uska contribution kareeb jo hai 10% hai aur export ka jo hai, maine bataya kareeb 18-19% hai. Is tarah se jo hai matlab alag alag category ke andar mein hai.
Right sir, sir. So related to this sir, the raw material which are used for this are mainly the HR coils or you have other raw material also.
Only, so we have two raw material, one is HR coil and another is zinc.
Okay okay. Sir, I just wanted to understand, like it was being illustrated by so many of the callers in the call. When you are talking about the raw material, which is the HR coils price reduction or the overall the final product price reduction, which you are seeing in the market, because of which the EBITDA has. The EBITDA has been reduced. So wanted to understand, what is the pricing power in case the raw material price reduces with the Surya and other company and the other competitors in the market.
हमारा क्या है? We don't manufacture HR coil. हम लोग तो सिर्फ pipe बनाते हैं। अगर HR coil के दाम कम हो गए तो हमको pass on करना पड़ता है। बढ़ जाता है तो हमको जो है वो बढ़ा हुआ price मिल जाता है। घटते time पे engineering. सारे engineering यही है कि घटते time कम stock खरीद करो, बढ़ते time ज्यादा रखो तो उसका advantage होता है। Basically.
Want to understand, sir, mere ko ye clarity nahi hui ki jo EBITDA per ton reduce hua wo kyun hua?
नहीं, वो EBITDA पर टन जो है हमारा H1 से देखेंगे। स्लाइड मतलब बेहतर ही है और FY 2023 के कंपेयर करेंगे तो भी हमारा पर टन EBITDA बेहतर ही है और पूरे साल का भी अगर आप देखेंगे तो 6,000 रुपए पर टन आसपास का EBITDA रहेगा और जो HR Coil का बता रहे हैं, आप मतलब बहुत ज्यादा वोलैटाइल इस साल तो बिल्कुल नहीं है। मतलब थोड़ा बहुत है, इतना तो रहता ही है।
Right sir. Sir, aur jo 55% jo aapka trade aur distribution ka jo sector hai, mainly jo aapke off takers hain, usmein what is the outlook in the market right now, the dealer, the dealer talks or the discuss which you are having how is the outlook?
Outlook overall accha hai. Bharat ka hi outlook accha hai aur demand theek hai. Thoda bahut price ke hisab se ek aadh mahina upar neeche rehta hai. Otherwise jo hai hamari yeh throughout 50 saal ke itihas mein yeh hamari strength rahi hai aur aage bhi rahega aur bahut saare state ke andar mein jo hai, hamko is cheez ke liye hamko credit bhi milta hai, hamko premium bhi milta hai aur aaj bhi bahut saare states ke andar mein jo hai. Prakash pipes jo hai agriculture yani kisaanon ke liye aur customer ke liye jo hai, pehli pasand hai.
Right sir, sir one of one of the last thing which I want to ask. Sir, aapka when we talk about the product, is there a competition in the product in terms of jo jo ye naye PVC pipes aa rahe hain, inse bhi kuch competition hai. Kisi kisi target market mein aapke.
No no, market mein to har ek product ka competition rehta hi hai aur main aisa kehta hoon. Competition rehta hai, challenge rehta hai tabhi aadmi aage accha perform kar paata hai. So competition to sabhi mein hai. Lighting ke andar mein aap dekho, sabse zyada competition aaj lighting mein hai, kyunki aaj tak jo hai ye lighting industry LED aane ke baad mature nahi hui. Aaj bhi yah samajh mein nahi aa raha hai ki yah product jo main introduce kar raha hoon, yah ek saal tak chalega ya usse pehle hi mujhe naya product lekar ke dena padega.
Uska main reason yah hai ki lighting industry mein aaj bhi 50% se zyada market share jo hai, un logon ke haath mein hai. Jo unorganized sector jisko aap keh sakte hain, imported material manga liya. CKD mein SKD mein aur usko screw driver technology use kar liya aur usko market mein jo hai kaafi matlab usko bana ke khud hi bech diya to yah ek phase hai lighting industry aur bahut. In fact pichle 3-4 saal se hi kaafi tough rahi hai.
इसी तरह स्टील डिवीजन के अंदर में भी कॉम्पिशन रहता है। स्टील डिवीजन में जो मेरा अनुभव रहा, इतने साल का, जनरली आपके जो है डीलर नेटवर्क के थ्रू माल बेचना हमारी प्रेफरेंस रहती है। वहां के अंदर में जो हमारे 50 साल के जो हमारे ट्रैक रिकॉर्ड, हमारे रिलेशनशिप के बेसिस में क्वालिटी के ऊपर में, उसमें काफी कुछ डिपेंड करता है और बड़ा मेजर हमारा एक जंग एक्सपोर्ट का है। वो भी हमारे स्टॉकिस्ट जैसे ही एडवांस में हमको पैसा मिलता है, फिर हम यहां से मटेरियल मिलता है, फिर मटेरियल डिस्पैच करते हैं और एक सेगमेंट ऐसा है, जिसमें प्रोजेक्ट और API है। वो मतलब उसमें मतलब कॉम्पिशन रहता है, उसके बावजूद भी उसके अंदर में जो है, मार्जिन काफी बेहतर रहते हैं।
I was specifically asking about the CPVC pipes, which are like so in some segment in that particular I mean product itself, not about the competitor in terms of the product competing with this.
Aur hum log usmein har quarter mein matlab bahut bada investment nahi hota hai, isliye main kabhi iska zikr nahi karta. So abhi bhi hamari jo hai, almost hum capacity se ek saal mein double kar chuke hain.
Sir, what I was asking is, like your pipes, whether they are used in agriculture or any other segment, pipes or plumbing pipes or whatever, is there any CPVC competition or are they used for specific uses?
हमारा ऐसा था कि जो प्लंबिंग सेगमेंट है, वह ऑलमोस्ट जो है, पीवीसी पे शिफ्ट हो चुका है, क्योंकि स्टील पाइप लेकर के प्लंबर एक दिन में एक बाथरूम तैयार करता है, स्टील पाइप से, लेकिन पीवीसी में वह तीन से चार बाथरूम रेडी कर देता है।
So, those steel pipes of yours, sir, sir, which your existing one which product, which segment is, there is no competition in it.
उसमें पीवीसी प्लास्टिक के कारण कोई खतरा नहीं है, क्योंकि जो हमारे सेगमेंट है, उसके अंदर में पीवीसी कैटर नहीं कर सकता है। एटलीस्ट आज तक तो यह कोई ऐसी टेक्नोलॉजी नहीं है।
Okay, that type of using right sir. Okay sir, so that's all from my side. Thanks for your time and all the best to your company. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. Please go ahead.
Congratulations sir on good set of numbers and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, mera sawal yah hai ki aapne kaha hai ki kareeb kareeb 900,000 tons karenge hum pipe segment mein aur roughly FY 2024 mein aur lighting mein lagbhag double digit growth karenge. To main yah jaanna chahta hoon, sir, aapka koi FY 2025 ke liye number hai mind mein ki kitna lagta hai, kitna labh aap karna chahoge FY 2025 mein aur lighting mein kya growth aa sakta hai?
Aisa hai ki hamara jaise steel ka maine bataya, next year ki FY 2025 ki baat karun to 1 million+ hamari volume rahegi. Steel segment mein aur lighting division ke andar mein mujhe. Halanki main pehle bhi mujhe lagta tha, isse jyada price erosion nahi hona chahiye. Ab bahut jyada scope mujhe lagta hai bacha nahi hai aur lighting division ham pichle agar 5 saal ka bhi ham dekhen, volume in terms of volume growth 15%-20% ke aaspaas regular ham log growth karte rahe hain. Jitne bhi hurdles rahe, uske bawajood bhi to main aisa manta hoon jo hai. 15% ke aaspaas growth FY 2025 mein bhi ham log price erosion thoda bahut jo rahega, uske bawajood bhi ham log karenge.
ओके।
Sir, aur hai ki margin mein improvement ka scope hai. At one time we are at 40% one CFL wattage. Ab usi disha mein gradually hum log is naye product ke saath, nayi technology ke saath, with naye product mix ke saath jo hai, us disha mein hum log aage badh rahe hain.
हां, बराबर सर, बराबर। सर मैं आपका यह देख रहा था कि हां, इस साल के बाद सर मतलब ऐसा CapEx जो आपने दो साल का प्लान दे दिया है, तो आपके पास काफी cash flow बच जाएगा, बच जाएंगे। मतलब आप even CapEx consider कर लोगे तो। सर आपने कुछ सोचा है क्या कि मतलब buyback करें या कुछ? क्योंकि क्या होता है कि dividend side में investor को मतलब बड़ा tax लग जाता है, 30% तक तो।
Aisa hai ki main ek mota mota calculation jisko bolte hain desi bhasha mein wo diya hoon. But aap ye maan ke chaliye ki jo bhi CapEx hoga, uske alawa jo hoga, wo jo hai shareholder ka hoga, lekin wo dividend route nahi rahega, itna to main bata sakta hoon. Wo rahega. Wo hamara ek firm commitment hai. Regularly har saal kuch na kuch dividend hum badhakar ke dete hi hain. But phir bhi abhi aisa koi firm decision director ne nahi liya, board ne nahi liya to main us par abhi koi comment karna mujhe lagta hai wo theek nahi hoga. So hopefully by next jo hai, Q3 mein ya Q4 tak shayad usmein kuch clarity rahegi.
But you are right ki hum log 1,500 CapEx se volume mein growth karte hue jo is level tak aaye hain, so mujhe lagta hai future accha hai. Humko aur CapEx karna hai aur geographical location mein jana hai aur product mix ko change karte hue mujhe lagta hai ki hamari matlab valuation ke andar mein kaafi scope potential mujhe dikhta hai.
सही कह रहे हो सर, वो भी हम देख ही रहे हैं। दो तीन क्वार्टर से जो परफॉर्मेंस काफी इंप्रूव होते जा रहा है और इसमें इन्वेस्टर तो मेरा सिर्फ एक मतलब मैं शेयर करना चाहूंगा कि आप अगर ये सोचे कि आपका लाइटिंग डिविजन आप अलग करें तो कंपनी को काफी अच्छा वैल्यूएशन मिल सकता है। मतलब लाइटिंग बिजनेस से जो मार्केट में वैल्यूएशन मिल रहा है, आज पूरे कंपनी को भी उतना मिल नहीं रहा है। मेरे को लगता है कि वो साइड से भी वैल्यू क्रिएशन बन सकता है इन्वेस्टर के लिए तो ये सिर्फ मेरी, मेरा सोच है, जो मैं आपके साथ शेयर करना चाहता हूं। और बाकी।
कई लोगों ने सजेस्ट किया है और जैसे आप इन्वेस्टर और हमारे प्रमोटर भी इन्वेस्टर ही हैं, तो हमने उनको हमारे बोर्ड को एक बार बताया भी हमने। तो ऐसी कुछ बात होगी तो, बट ये हमारे ध्यान में है जो आपने सुझाव दिया है। बट वो तो जब डिसीजन होगा, होगा। बट उसके बावजूद भी हम लोग जो है शेयरहोल्डर के लिए वैल्यू क्रिएशन हो, उस पर हम रेगुलर काम करते हैं, क्योंकि हमारे शेयरहोल्डर ही है जिन्होंने हमको इस बोर्ड में एमडी बनाकर, डायरेक्टर बनाकर रखा है और हमारी जवाब भी आपके प्रति बनती है और ईमानदारी से हम कर रहे हैं, आगे भी करते रहेंगे।
Shukriya sir, shukriya aur all the best sir! Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we take that as a last question and now I hand over to Mr. Bharat Bhushan Singhal, CFO and Company Secretary for closing comment.
Thank you everyone for joining us today on this earnings call. We appreciate your interest in Surya Roshni Limited. I sincerely once again thank our MD and CEO for sparing the valuable time and addressing queries raised by the participants who joined the call. I would also like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on this call a very happy Diwali from the entire Surya Roshni family. For any further queries, if any, contact SGA, our investor relations advisor. Thank you once again.
On behalf of Surya Roshni Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.