Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Tanla Platforms Limited Q4 FY 2026 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ritu Mehta. Thank you and over to you, ma'am.
A very good evening and a warm welcome to the Q4 earnings call. Joining with us today are Uday Reddy, Founder, Chairman, and CEO; Deepak Goyal, Executive Director, and Anubhav Batra, CFO. Before we start the call, let me draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may feature statements that are forward-looking in nature. All statements other than statements of historical fact could be deemed forward-looking in nature. Such statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be quantified or predicted. A detailed disclosure in this regard is mentioned in the results presentation that is uploaded on our website. Audio recording and transcript will be uploaded soon. Hope everybody got a chance to go through our investor presentation and shareholder letter. The management will be happy to answer questions, and we will now open the floor for Q&A. Saurav, over to you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on their touchtone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking your question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants, you may press star and then one to ask a question. Our first question comes from the line of Deepak Chokhani from Red Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for this opportunity. I have three questions. We have cash of INR 1,000 crore, and of course, the dividend is pretty handsomely given along with buybacks. I'm just wondering why not think of some acquisitions in the AI space, especially voice, and why not explore acquisitions in related areas which can propel our growth? That's my first question. Second question is, last call, I think it was told that by March the company will sign another ATP deal with one more bank. So just want an update on that. The last question is we have INR 12 crore of FX loss. Of course, I know, I mean, the USD has moved sharply against the rupee. However, are we not hedging?
If at all, if we are hedging, then what went wrong and how can we avoid this in future? Also can we show this as a separate line item in the P&L? Of course, it's mentioned in the investor presentation, but I think it'll help the investors to have more clarity and assess the overall EBITDA in a proper way. That's it. Thanks.
Hi, Deepak. Uday here. Let me answer the first and second question and third question I will pass on to Anubhav, though we had a very extensive discussion on the hedging in our last board meeting. When it comes to the acquisition life, we are pretty open, but we are not really actively not looking for any acquisition, but we're pretty open. As and when we find right investments, I think, we are quite keen. You know, we always believe in build versus buy, right? All these AI companies are, I mean, the expectations are skyrocketing, so we need to be really mindful. We would rather focus on build versus buy.
That's what my comment, right? That's number one. Number two, ATP, yes, we have signed the third deal. In fact, we went live last month. We added the third bank, which is Bandhan Bank. We already integrated. We went live with them. I think we billed for one month.
Yes.
We billed one month for the Q4 of last year.
In terms of hedging.
Yeah. Deepak, on the hedging, basically it's a non-cash item because of mark to market of some payables. We do have a hedging policy and honestly, our international payable and receivable provide a natural hedge. This one is more of a specific, you know, liability, a balance sheet item which got restated and it obviously because of the USD-INR excessive fluctuation, this hit us badly in this quarter. We did call it out separately so that, you know, all the investors may get a fair view of our operational profitability.
We are reworking on our hedging policy to see if we can reduce the exposure and it will get addressed not just by the policy, but also we are trying to settle this balance sheet item to ensure that there is minimalistic P&L volatility in the coming quarters. Because the timing of this payout was not certain, we could not go ahead and do a forward cover to this because of the uncertainty of timing of the cash flow. We would want to take it out away from our balance sheet as soon as possible to reduce the volatility.
Right. Understood. Just a follow-up question, Uday sir, on the first point. I do understand that the valuations are pretty high in the AI space, so you prefer building something versus acquiring. Could you just tell us what new products are we working on, and what new platforms you may be working on? If you can just throw some light on that.
Deepak, I think it's not fair on our part to share our innovation roadmap. Having said that, we are expected to launch one gigantic platform this quarter. Really we have been betting big on this platform for quite some time. I'm personally working on this platform for the last 40 days. I think we should be able to announce to the market in the next probably a month's time.
Superb. All the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Keshav Garg from Counter-Cyclical PMS. Please go ahead.
Sir, I'm new to the company, so please pardon my ignorance. I'm just trying to understand why our operating margins are continuously falling since FY 2022, and have they stabilized at these levels now at 16% EBITDA? Or do you see further dip or you see the same margin profile going forward, or you expect a bounce back from these levels?
Keshav, Anubhav here. We do have seen a decline, but honestly we have become range bound. If you look at it, the operating profits at a gross margin level have improved slightly in last couple of quarters. At the same time, at EBITDA level, we are making some conscious investments in GTM, and we have called it out in earlier earnings call as well. On both innovation side and GTM side, we are investing in growth. Because of that, the EBITDA percentage appears to be where it is. We do see them improving as well as at least holding on in the near future. Our investments are gonna continue on the GTM side, they will bear fruits in the coming quarters.
You already see that some margin improvement have happened on the gross margin profile.
Great. That's really reassuring to hear. What about the top line? Looking at the kind of demand and feedback from our customers and so on, what kind of broad range do you expect the revenue for the next, let's say three to five years that in our business we can sustain?
Deepak, you wanna take that question? Deepak?
Hi, Deepak here. Yeah. You see, we are seeing, you know, a growth of overall revenue, growth of CPaaS industry for about, you can say, 8% on average. 8%-10% that is organic growth, how the industry is growing. We see ourselves, you know, running a larger share on year-on-year basis. Right? We expect that our market share would also increase with the kind of investments we have made. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be definitely more than 10% a year.
Okay. Understood. Sir, if you could just give us some idea about what has been the experience of our counterparts in Western countries like the advanced markets of, let's say, U.S. Are they still intermediaries like us? The role that we are playing in India, are they similar companies or they have an integrated model, wherein the telcos or the WhatsApp, et cetera, they are directly doing what we are doing?
If I understood your-
Yeah, yeah. If I understood your question correctly, you are saying, you know, the model, the working model, of CPaaS player is the same as India and the U.S. Yeah, the answer is yes. In fact, there are few companies, international companies, they operate in India as well as in the U.S., for example, Sinch, right? And there are more. Yeah, it's more or less the same.
Okay. What is our right to win, like, the example you gave of Bandhan Bank, who has recently joined us or is expected to join our customer list. Our competitors, what is their proposition versus what is our proposition? Is it 100% pricing based, or is there something else also which tilts the balance in our favor?
See, it is always innovation led. Okay? If you... That's what, you know, we always believe in having a differentiator over our competitors. That's why our customers, you know, always keep their faith in us. That reflects in our customer base, if you look at it. Any seven or eight top 10 names in any vertical if you pick up, you'll find them as our customers. Having said that, you talk about Bandhan Bank. What Uday mentioned, Bandhan Bank was our... We acquired them for our anti-phishing platform, which is again, you know, a great innovation which we did couple of years back. We are getting very good traction in the market.
Bandhan Bank has been using our CPaaS services for quite some time from Karix anyway.
Understood. What is the kind of CapEx that we are looking at on a per annum basis? I can see that over the past three, four years, it's between INR 100 crore and INR 150 crore. Is that trajectory expected to continue?
What is the question? Sir, can you please repeat, Keshav?
Yeah. I just wanted to get a handle about the CapEx requirements in this business. Over the past four to five years, it seems we are doing something like INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore per annum. Is that trajectory expected to continue in the future, INR 100 crore-INR 150 crore per annum CapEx?
Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely yes.
Okay, sir. Understood. Sir, thank you very much. I must congratulate you for a very timely share buyback and the excellent dividend payout. On behalf of all the shareholders, I want to thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and then one. Our next question comes from the line of Trupti Shukla from Bulls Eye. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thanks, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I have actually two questions from the Digital Platform segment. My first question is, given the exceptional 98.3% gross margin of Digital Platform segment, this is clearly the growth engine profitability, future profitability. However, achieving INR 395 crores in FY 2026 is in single digits growth, despite your heavy investment in Wisely.ai. Can you provide a broad-
Trupti, your voice. Trupti, sorry to disturb you, but actually your voice is cracking.
Okay.
I think you have a very bad network. Your voice is cracking.
Sir, I just wanted to know that INR 395 crore Digital Platform segment, which represents single-digit growth despite of heavy investment in Wisely.ai. Can you provide broad growth targets for this division for FY 2027 and FY 2028? Specifically, what percentage of your FY 2027 target is already logged in via signed contracts or committed pipelines?
Trupti, Digital Platforms has a contribution from our traditional offerings as well as new offerings like Wisely.ai. While the growth looks little moderate, it is because some products are dependent on the channel-based growth, which are growing at a steady pace. However, Wisely kind of platforms obviously are growing at a much faster pace. You would have seen that we onboarded one large telco globally, and it contributed to a significant number this year. We basically expect the growth to be much faster in the coming years because of our we would like to multiply our efforts on Wisely.ai, And it should actually bear more fruits in the coming quarters, where we would be able to convert more of such customers and the growth rate should accelerate.
Okay. Can you provide me the percentage, like the, growth target and increase for FY 2027 and so on?
Sorry, Trupti. We don't actually issue any, you know, forward-looking statements, so I can't give a specific percentage, but definitely we would want to aspire for higher percentage growth than the past.
Okay, sir, another question. Like, you have highlighted that INR 200 crores in revenue came from new logos, and that 23% of the new client onboarded via WhatsApp and RCS. Could you break down exactly how much percentage of that INR 20 crores flowed directly into Digital Platforms segment? Furthermore, looking at top 50 client, what is the current cross sales conversion rates migrating from them?
Sorry, Trupti, your voice is actually breaking quite a bit. The question is not clear.
Trupti, ma'am, if you're using a speakerphone or any external headset, may I request you to use the handset?
Okay. I'm using actually camera, sir. Hello, sir. Am I audible now?
No. Let her come back, or let her come back.
Sure. Ma'am, we request you to try calling us once again.
Okay.
Ask your questions. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the Enterprise business. Obviously, we are back on growth in the Enterprise side. A large part of that growth is being fueled by the OTT channel that we have built over the last three years. Based on the current run rate, we are already at INR 1,000 crore kind of run rate on OTT. Now the base has expanded. From here on, what kind of growth rate can we expect from the OTT channel?
In terms of the engagement with our existing clients, are we seeing you know the penetration in terms of is actually coming from the existing clients or we are getting net new clients on the OTT side? Also on the Enterprise business, ex OTT, you know like what is the stability that we are seeing on the business which obviously has stabilized. But on the domestic piece, is it the existing clients are increasing their spend on the on the existing channels or the CPaaS channels or is there any like newer technologies that we are also working on in terms of offerings?
Hi. Hi, Amit, Deepak here. Firstly, I would like to say that, yes, you know, OTT channels are growing very fast. WhatsApp is growing very fast. In terms of new channels, RCS adoption is happening, you know, quite fast. Even SMS is also growing in terms of volumes. Because you are aware that, you know, most of the messages which are sent are mandated by the regulators like RBI and SEBI and IRDAI, you know, so all the banking alerts, UPI alerts, you know, you are aware of it. When these transactions go up, you know, so the volumes also go up.
However, they may not be reflecting, you know, everything into, you know, higher revenues because of, you know, there is always a price, you know, prices are also a little going down on the SMS side. As far as OTT is concerned, OTT is opening new use cases, very interesting use cases, which is actually helping us engaging, retaining our customers. Our focus was this year to increase our wallet share by offering new use cases, by offering, you know, very interesting, you know, journeys to the customers, and which has really helped us in, you know, solidifying our, you know, our existing customer base. Other than that, we have done, you know, very well in acquiring new logos as well.
For example, we won Reserve Bank of India. Okay. Now Reserve Bank of India is very closely working with us. We won Bank of Baroda, which was not there with us. It's one of the largest banks which were not there with us. In terms of our existing customers, I'll just give you one example, one of the largest e-commerce company. You know, they recently, you know, we are able to increase our wallet share to more than 50% because they started, you know, earlier they were only giving us a messaging business. Now they are giving us OTT as well because the kind of solutions we created for them.
I'm overall very happy the way our team has performed in terms of on the OTT space. You must be aware that even Meta has, I mean, the last financial year, they recognized us as the Partner of the Year for India. Then Google acknowledged us as a Partner of the Year. We are doing very well on OTT space. We are doing very well on the solutioning side, and that is helping us winning new customers as well as increasing our wallet share with the existing customers.
Okay.
You also talk about new technologies. For the CPaaS space, new technologies, we call it, I mean, new channels also, which is RCS, which is unlocking a lot of, you know, possibilities for us. In terms of new platforms, I mean, you know Tanla keeps coming up with new ideas and new platforms, so that is helping us. Let's say for example, Bandhan Bank, we just closed. There's one such example which Bandhan Bank was working very closely with Karix for CPaaS services, and we are able to, you know, sell our anti-phishing platform as well. Similarly, we hope to win more banks in this financial year.
As Uday mentioned, you know, Tanla is working on new platforms. We are very excited that our enterprise team would be able to sell these platforms to our enterprise customers.
Okay, Deepak. Also how we are preparing ourselves for the technology risk, because in the AI world, the tech is changing very fast. How we are preparing ourselves for that. Also, you know, there is a regulatory kind of a, not a risk, but you know, regulatory change that could also happen where sending SMS will, you know, like no longer be compulsory. Are we also seeing or preparing ourselves for such kind of scenario and, you know, shifting our focus from that? Because what is happening in the voice or the SMS business, we are seeing volumes growth, but there is a continuous pricing shrinkage that is happening both from the large banks and also from the, you know, like government segment. Because volumes are coming, but it's not actually showing up in growth.
Yeah.
Yeah, Uday, please.
No, Deepak, go ahead.
Yeah, Amit. Firstly, Uday mentioned is, I mean, we are AI native company, right? Tanla is doing a lot of innovations and our platforms are built using AI, right? We are very excited with those opportunities and those possibilities. That is that. On the other side, what was the other question? I forgot.
No, no. In government volumes and banks volumes, which is
Yeah. See, I hope these things I mentioned earlier also, it happens. There is always a reset happens. Right. We hope soon we may see some reset happening over there on the prices as well.
What we are expecting is that the prices are coming down or we can see some reductions there in terms of pricing.
It is, I mean, it is on the cards. When it'll happen, I can't say.
What would be the mix of the government-led institutions volume in our overall volume mix, if you can give some color on that.
You mean government? Government means central government or central state government or PSU banks and all that?
Yeah, no. PSU banks also, plus NIC or the, you know, the government agency, central government agencies.
See, the PSU banks is a very, you know, good share of our overall volumes, and it is growing. As you must be aware that PSU banks are doing very well, in the country today, right? I mean,
With our kind of focus on the central government and everything. We manage very significantly large volumes for PSU banks. Those volumes are growing, right? On the government side, we have NIC, and then we have some small, you know, other government institutions. So primarily it is NIC, but again, NIC is a very small, I mean, percentage of our overall business.
Amit, just to add from the total volumes that we do with PSUs and government, the regulated part of the messages is obviously a small subset of it, because we do many more use cases than just the regulated messages.
Okay. On the platform side, obviously, sir, we have you know been upfront in terms of investments, and we have you know quite a lot you know good platforms there, and we have closed some deals also, both in India and internationally. But it's not getting reflected or it's not getting converted into you know the growth number as of now. Is it just a timing issue or you're seeing some other structural challenges or some kind of challenges in terms of scaling up? Also in terms of the international strategy, how you're seeing the growth you know for the next year domestic versus international?
It is, Amit, it is honestly more of a timing issue. There is no structural changes or shifts happening. It is basically to do with how quickly can we replicate our success like we have done with couple of banks in India and abroad. We are obviously accelerating our efforts on the GTM side to ensure that the proportion becomes higher and it reflects in the overall performance of the company. It's basically just a matter of time that it will start reflecting like that.
Okay. The international expansion that we invested for last year. What kind of growth we can expect from domestic versus international in a year?
Yeah. International actually continues to be a significant focus area. I mean, our efforts are equally distributed in expanding in India as well as other geographies. A significant portion of growth is gonna come from outside India as well.
Okay, thanks and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Dipesh Mehta from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions. First, on the FY 2026, can you provide some sense about volume and realization breakout? Or maybe quarter for whichever way you can provide some sense how it is playing out. Second question is on the ATP side interface. You said, the deal which we signed, can you provide the earlier two deal? How, that has scaled and how it is, let's say, whether revenue is linked with the number of messages which we block or it is fixed price deal. So some contour around it, how generally revenue scale-up happen. Third question is about the OTT channel.
Now if I look, let's say last four quarters, as a percentage of revenue, it largely remains stable, around 31%-32% each quarter, which in a way indicate OTT channel growth also moderated to the company average kind of thing. I just want to understand your broad thought process, whether the market has stabilized between different channels, SMS versus other OTT channel. If yes, what would be the reason? Because I'd presume OTT channels should have grown faster. Thank you.
Yeah. Actually first and third question is linked in a way, Dipesh, because OTT continues to grow faster than SMS. However, since SMS is more price sensitive in that sense, the volumes are growing at a much faster pace. There is some stress on the pricing, although it has not declined significantly, but there is pricing pressure. Pricing, volumes grow faster. In OTT, the correction in price is obviously slower. It is less competitive. Overall, we see significant growth in volumes and slight correction in prices. That's the mix of price volume. On the ATP, on the second question, the ATP deals are basically per subscriber per month kind of basis. It is not linked with the number of messages blocked.
It is actually based on the number of subscribers protected. That's the model we work with.
No, just on the first and third, which you link on OTT side. Now, if let's say, SMS is facing pricing pressure, then OTT shares should have increased, right? In your case, all four quarter OTT share remain flattish, 31%, 32% kind of thing, which in a way indicate OTT volume and realization both put together is not showing any different behavior than SMS growth.
No. See, I tell you, see what happens is, I think Anubhav also mentioned the same thing that, when we talk about OTT, so it's primarily WhatsApp, which is more than, I would say, 80% or 90%, right? Because RCS is still gaining, I mean, still small, comparatively. When we talk about WhatsApp, then there are promotional messages, and then there are utility messages. The focus, you know, is on, you know. The WhatsApp is growing more on utility, and they want to bring down the promotion because of customer complaints. The user experience is going bad and all that. You must have seen even your boxes must be getting cluttered with all kind of promotional messages, which even Meta doesn't want.
They want to bring it down. These messages are very expensive. I mean, almost 10 times more expensive compared to your transactional messages or utility messages. Let's say if you get any information or any transaction on your WhatsApp, right? WhatsApp wants to grow those messages and bring the volume down for marketing. Even though the volumes are growing, but it may not be reflecting in the revenues or the revenue growth per se.
No, I understand. That is what my bigger question was, whether now market is stabilizing because the way you are indicating, because of the mixing between promotional and utility messages, blended realization might have come down for WhatsApp messages, which is reflected in, despite higher volume growth, lower blended realization giving you flattish kind of similar growth as company average. Do you think this would be the now stabilized kind of market, which in a way indicate OTT channel growth will converge with overall market growth?
Okay. It's like this. We operate. Let's say when I talk about our Enterprise business. Our enterprise business happen, like, about 75%-80% business happening from the top 250 customers, let's say. Right? Then you have a long tail from where your 15%-20% business coming from another 50,000-60,000 enterprises. This is how the CPaaS market is stacked. As far as we are concerned, we are there in almost 80% of these customers. We are present, and now we are trying to increase our wallet share. Having said that, now when we talk about OTT, I mean, you would see that, WhatsApp still growing year-over-year. The growth is very, very high because they are venturing into SME market.
Their target is maybe 2 million SMEs in the country, where currently we are not operating, right? Where we are operating, yes, you are right, that it is, you know, very well stabilized. But then there's another huge market, where, you know, they have small TSPs, technology service providers and all that, okay, who are there in every city, every small little city and providing services to, let's say, some salon, some grocery store or some, you know, could be any housing society and all of that. That's a very different market altogether, where the growth is very, very high.
Understood. From Tanla or enterprise market perspective, this is like now seeing some kind of stability, OTT channel growth. That is the right way to understand?
Yes.
Okay. Sir, last question is about the reason for delay in closure of ValueFirst International, because now almost three years now. Can you provide some sense what is leading to this delay?
Dipesh, the reason actually continues to be the same. We are still coordinating with the regulatory authority there to obviously fast-track it as much as possible. We are also looking at any alternate, if it is possible, because it has caused significant delays. We are now also evaluating if there are any other ways to consolidate those businesses, because it's been a long time. Actually working on both sides, in the sense that alternate approach as well as expediting approvals from RBI.
Sir, I'm not very clear. What are the reasons? You said it is regulatory approval, but let's say where it got stuck.
No, it is stuck at RBI level because there's some old matters which had to be clarified, et cetera. There is a documentation going on with RBI, set of questions being asked, et cetera. That's where it is currently. That's where we are currently.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Sharad Kohli an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, I have a few questions. The first question is, can you give us some. Because there's never been any deep disclosure on what makes up the platform business. Recently you guys signed Indosat, and I think on the last conference call, you mentioned that it's for entire subscriber base, which is $100 million. Sorry, which is 100 million subscribers. Can you give some sense as to, on a yearly basis, you charge INR 10, INR 20, INR 30 per subscriber, so it's easy for us to kind of at least project some kind of growth of the INR 400 crore business that you have on the platform side? That's my first question.
Similarly, if you can just give a broad outline on how much do you collect per user on the banking side for the ATP product? Those are my questions on that. Then I know this UAE thing has been taking a while, but when you made the acquisition first, I think you had given a broad. I'd asked that question then. I think the answer you gave was that the business when you acquired ValueFirst, the UAE subsidiary was about INR 200 crore of top line and single digit gross margin. Can you give us some kind of guidance on where that INR 200 crore has gone, whether it has become INR 300 crore, INR 400 crore?
I know that you guys, once you acquire someone, you kind of expand the margin, so it would be helpful to understand that low single digit gross margin, has that gone to double digits or not? Then a final question is just more broader picture at the board level. Do you guys have a sense of when you might be thinking of splitting? This is not an immediate question, but I mean, it's a question I'm asking now, but it's not an immediate event. But are there any thoughts in terms of saying that now that the platform business gross margin is half, it's about INR 100+ crores, half of the Enterprise business, the Indian markets clearly are not valuing that business.
We have examples of companies listed in the U.S. and Europe which derive a much higher multiple. Is there any thought saying that, okay, once we get to a INR 300 crore or INR 400 crore gross margin business on the platform side, we will look to split this companies and list that in a different market? Those are my questions.
Sorry to interrupt. Sharad, sir, the line for the management has been dropped. Just please stay connected while we reconnect the line to the management.
Okay.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for staying connected. We have the line for the management reconnected. Please go ahead. Yes.
Yeah. Sharad are you there?
Yeah, I'm here. Thanks.
Yeah. Sharad, let me start with our last question first. Like, you know, we don't have any such plans, but our top focus is to grow our platform margins to revenues as fast as we can. We're also expecting a good growth this year, though I'm not in a position to share anything beyond that. We are pretty much focused. Opportunities are very big. As you know, like, you know, we have the first deployment with Indosat, which is outside India. That platform is doing phenomenal job. We are investing outside India. We in fact are recruiting the people outside India first time. Yeah.
We don't have any intention to get listed outside India right now. That's number one. If and when it comes to Indosat, both the platform, Wisely.ai And Wisely ATP, which is deployed in India, they get paid per user per month. Okay? That's how it works. It's more of subscription model, and they're all long-term deals. If I'm allowed to say, we closed with three banks in India on the ATP. They're all I think if I remember correctly, it's all long-term deals which are around five-year deals, and same with Indosat. It's a pretty long-term deals subscription model. Whenever they add the subscribers, we get paid for that subscriber from that month, right. That's how it works.
No. I understand that. I was just wondering because there's no breakdown between Trubloq and ATP and this Indosat deal on the INR 400 crore of platform business. I was trying to understand and from a modeling perspective, if you could just give some guidance, it's 100 million times INR 10 or INR 20 per subscriber. So, you know, I can just say, okay, rough. I can do some rough estimation saying 100 million times INR 10 is INR 100 crore per year on Indosat. Is there anything you can help with that?
Not right now, Sharad. Probably next quarter.
Okay.
On the UAE side, I don't know if you heard that question, but my question
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. Yes. On the UAE side, like, you know, as I think Anubhav has given the reasons why it got delayed. I think we had very extensive discussion in the board meeting last week. I think we asked our consultants to look at different options, legal options side. I think we should be able to see some light in this quarter. That's what we kind of realized last week. That's number one. Effectively we should be able to close the deal in this quarter. Let me commit that. That's number one.
Number two, y es. In terms of the margins, I think our Karix team is helping them to improve the margins, which I think they have grown from some to almost 22% gross margin. In terms of top line, I think they're still around INR 150 crores-INR 170 crores as we speak per annum. It's a question of once we transfer this business to our teams outside India, I mean, you see the magic. Let me commit that we will close the ValueFirst International this quarter. Probably effectively around INR 150 crores-INR 170 crores top line with around 22% gross margin is going to add to this financial year.
That's good to hear. You guys have basically expanded your margin by almost double your margin, that's great to hear.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Awesome. Thank you.
Thanks. Yeah.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Amit Agarwal from Leeway Investments. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Sir, there was an article in the newspaper regarding that, UPI connections will do away with SMS notifications. How much business will be affected because of that development? My second question is, more and more bigger companies are going for in-house in-app notifications as that was effective. How much business... So what is the future of our SMS and WhatsApp notifications? Because bigger companies are going for in-app notifications. These are my two questions.
Amit, like we mentioned in the earlier question as well, we do a lot of use cases for PSU and other government banks, but other government organizations. Honestly regulated, I would say there would be an impact, but it's a single-digit percentage of our overall volumes that we do which fall under the strictly regulated kind of messages. There would be alternate methods of doing that communication, and we are obviously building, enhancing our product portfolio to ensure if there is any other way of authenticating the users, we also kind of participate in that channel. For example, there would be network APIs, et cetera, from telcos which can be used as alternate. That is on the regulated messages.
On in-app notification, honestly, it's not a new way of connecting with the user. It has been there for many, many years now. The kind of use cases we do on OTT and other SMS channels, it is much more engaging in nature. I think in-app notification will not have significant impact because it has not had significant impact on the business. We don't think that there will be any impact there just because of in-app notification.
Because my worry is, companies like Blinkit and Swiggy, which are the biggest growing e-commerce companies, they hardly use our system, I suppose. Am I right?
Yes. They already use us.
Yeah.
Here I tell you, firstly, both are our customers, Zomato as well as, Swiggy. Okay. They both are our customers.
Okay.
Number one. Number two, you see the difference why they don't. You may not be getting too much of SMS notifications when you order a food-
Yes.
Right? Or you order anything. The reason being because this is a very, very unique case over here that you pick up your phone, you order your food, that time your eyes are very much there, you know, and then in there the deal gets closed. Okay? You get to know that.
Yeah.
You know, your order is accepted. Everything has happened within the app itself. Okay?
Yeah.
There's nothing much, is there, right? Let's say if you look at those deals Zomato does and a lot of other use cases over there. If you order from Flipkart, okay?
Okay.
The delivery takes about four days, six days, whatever. You will get a message, "Hey, your order is accepted." That you will see in your app. Next day you will get a message that, "Your order is on the way. Be ready for the delivery. Here is your OTP." Okay? You get another message, "It's delivered." All those would be sent via SMS or via WhatsApp, right? Because that time you are not in your app.
No, but.
Blinkit, so there's not much usage in Blinkit, I suppose, right? Is that right?
For certain use case, as I said, for certain, you know, cases, the use is less. It. that is therefore it's not that it has just come down now. It is always like that. Let's say even for when you book Ola or Uber cabs, right? Again, you are-
Okay.
You are very much there in the app and it is getting, the entire journey is getting completed then and there. Okay? That is a different kind of use case altogether. You are not, you know, when you come out of the app, everything is over, right? You don't need any other confirmations or anything. That is a very different kind of use case altogether.
As far as I understand that, but in the future, we should be more dependent on the smaller enterprises rather than the very big enterprises.
No, no, no.
Because they have.
No. It is not about small or big enterprises. Here I'm talking about very, very few unique cases where we can say call about quick commerce or let's say you talk about those, you know, cabs and all. Otherwise, you know, you look at large, I mean, you look at Flipkart, look at Amazon, you look at Myntra, you look at Nykaa.
Okay.
Meesho. All right?
Okay.
BigBasket. They all are our customers, and their number of transactions are going up and even our transactions are going up along with them. Right?
Okay. My question is how much business are we going to lose because of UPI is doing away with SMS notifications in the future?
UPI doing away with SMS notifications, I'm not aware of.
Because it came in the newspaper just, I think in the month of February.
No, no. You must be talking about the silent authentication for OTPs.
No, I'm talking about the UPI notification that, you know, INR 100 have been sent to you or INR 50,000 have been sent to you, whatever.
That's not changing. I think, Amit, it is to do with a value less than, let's say, we're talking about a particular denomination. If you send less than that money, then and currently also there is no UPI notification on SMS.
No, I think that we discussed, I think, two or three conferences back, but there was a news article. I can send it to you next time. Maybe we can discuss it next time. There was an article that they are doing away with notifications.
No, I tell you, a lot of banks, they have their own rules, okay? They are, RBI is also flexible about it. Where certain banks, they say that we will not send notification for less than INR 100. That's going on for multiple years now. For two, three years back, banks have adopted certain things, right? Some banks say, "We will not send any notification for less than INR 500." That's already in force.
How much business we get from UPI? Are you able to disclose that?
Sorry? How much business are we getting from UPI?
Yeah.
No, we will not be able to call out that number, sorry.
My second question is regarding the Indonesian deal. How many telco can we expect in next two, three years? Is it difficult? Because there are 100s of telecom companies around the world, so how much difficulty is it to crack some more telecom companies around the world?
Amit, the sales cycle is long, but obviously, like you mentioned, the universe is humongous. We are actually gunning for as much acquisition of telco clients as possible. We can't give a number as such, but obviously the pipeline is huge and the opportunity is huge, and we want to convert it ASAP.
Okay. Thank you. Best of luck.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as our last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ritu Mehta for closing comments.
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Thank you. On behalf of Tanla Platforms Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.