Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Tata Technologies conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Lohiya, Head of Investor Relations at Tata Technologies. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Lohiya.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Tata Technologies' third quarter fiscal 2024 results call. I'm Vijay Lohiya, Head of Investor Relations. With me today are Mr. Warren Harris, CEO and MD, Tata Technologies, and Ms. Savita Balachandran, CFO, Tata Technologies. This call is for 60 minutes. Our management team will give a brief overview of the company's performance, followed by a Q&A session.
As you are aware, we do not provide specific revenue or earning guidance, and anything said on this call, which reflects our outlook for the future or should be construed as a forward-looking statement, must be reviewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces. We outline these risks in the second slide of the quarterly investor deck available on our website. Our press release and earnings there have been filed with the stock exchanges and are also available on our website, www.tatatechnologies.com. I hope you had a chance to look at them. Let me now turn over the call to Warren.
Thank you, Vijay, and thank you everyone for joining us on today's earnings call. I trust and hope that you all had a good start to the new year, and it's my distinct pleasure to be hosting you on the first earnings call as a listed company. Let me provide the key highlights for the third quarter of fiscal year 2024, and I'll then hand over to Savita to provide more details on our financial performance. From a revenue perspective, in Indian rupees, we recorded aggregate sequential revenue growth of 1.6%, an annualized growth of 14.7%. Q3 tends to be a seasonally soft quarter because of reduced billing days, which can largely be attributed to the festivals in India and the Christmas and New Year holidays in other parts of the world.
However, our margin performance was much improved, operating EBITDA coming in at 18.3%, compared with 16.9% in the previous quarter. Q3 was also a good quarter in terms of deal signings, with five large deals won during October, November, and December. This includes one deal with a TCV of more than $50 million in our automotive vertical and another $25 million dollar deal in aerospace. The remaining three deals were all in the automotive vertical. Let me give you some further color on these deals. We have been selected by a global automotive OEM to support the rebalancing of their engineering resource pool in North America. This $50 million dollar TCV deal will involve the movement of several hundred roles from onshore locations in the U.S. to offshore delivery centers in India.
I'm also happy to inform that we've also won a $25 million multi-year engagement with a large European aerospace OEM in support of the digital transformation of their manufacturing operations. One of the major challenges faced by the aerospace sector is manufacturing throughput. Following the pandemic, demand for aircraft has exceeded the industry's ability to supply. This engagement is focused upon addressing that challenge through the deployment of digital tools, processes, and methods. We've also won a top half vehicle deal in China, the responsibility for the rollout of a digital thread solution that combines in ERP and MES tools for a North American new energy vehicle company and a major AUTOSAR engagement with a luxury vehicle manufacturer in the U.K. Delivering value to our customers continues to be our primary focus.
So let me now provide a brief summary on what's been happening with our top three customers. At Tata Motors, we've recently completed the rollout of a smart manufacturing solution for the new Sanand plant that Tata Motors acquired from Ford Motor Company in January 2023. We're responsible for architecting and deploying a solution that fully integrates ERP, CRM, MES, and IoT systems that have enabled Tata Motors to increase its annual production capacity by 300,000 units. This agile deployment was achieved in an industry-leading timeline, allowing Tata Motors to commence production early this month. At Jaguar Land Rover, we cemented position at the heart of their digital transformation program by helping deploy, at VinFast, their focus is pivoting from developing new products to building and selling cars.
We've almost completed the development of the two electric vehicles that were outsourced to Tata Technologies on a turnkey basis, and our activities are now transitioning to launch support. This transition began in the second quarter, accelerated in Q3, and will largely be completed in the current quarter. While I'm pleased with the agility that our delivery and resource management teams have shown in redeploying resources, revenues at VinFast materially dropped in Q3. We expect further reductions in the current quarter. Despite this, the services run-up was backfilled with business from other customers, and the impact at an aggregate revenue level was largely mitigated. Outside of our top three customers, traction continues to build, and we remain committed to harvesting the opportunity from this growing base...
Indeed, the health of our customer pyramid continues to improve, with 39 customers recording more than $1 million of annualized services revenue to Tata Technologies in the quarter. This compares with 34 customers in the same period last year. The strategic importance of our customer relationships also continues to improve. During the third quarter, we confirmed a multifaceted partnership with Agratas, the new global battery business of the Tata Group. Today, we have issued a press release that confirms that Agratas has selected Tata Technologies to support its ambition to design, develop, and manufacture high quality, high performance, sustainable battery solutions for the global mobility market.
The partnership will include a series of engagements that will focus upon battery pack design, the industrialization of the planned gigafactories in India and the U.K., together with the implementation of a digital thread that will enable Agratas to track all products and digital assets from concept through design, manufacturing, quality, and service. This partnership will enable Tata Technologies to further expand its upstream electric vehicle capabilities, thus extending our industry-leading electric vehicle proposition. From an operating perspective, we continue to expand our portfolio of service lines, especially in areas such as software-defined everything, cybersecurity, and autonomy. In October last year, we participated in ELIV in Germany. ELIV is the world's leading event for automotive, electronics, and software. At the event, we demonstrated a cloud, cloud-native architecture for software-defined vehicles, leveraging industry standards such as AUTOSAR and SOAFEE.
We partnered with leading technology players like NXP, ARM, Intel, and Amazon AWS, to profile software-defined vehicle platform solutions for high-performance computing, next generation, digital complex solutions, and cybersecurity. Earlier this month, we also exhibited our software-defined vehicle capabilities at CES and celebrated our emerging partnerships with Intel, ARM, and Foxconn's Motion in Harmony. As the world of high tech and mobility converge, the traditional vertically integrated automotive supply chains will likely transform into complex, horizontally structured ecosystems. OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers will have to abandon strategies that are focused upon total control of a vehicle and instead pick and choose their partners. That's why Tata Technologies is committed to building a strategic network of partnerships and alliances to address this structural shift in the industry. To that end, we are delighted to announce two important partnerships that will further reinforce our software-defined vehicle credentials.
The first is with Intel. Intel is a leader in compute technology across various industries, and our collaboration with Intel in the automotive space aligns with our vision to leverage cutting-edge technologies in delivering the latest innovations around software-defined vehicles to our customers. We will be utilizing Intel's new range of software-defined vehicle system-on-chip family of products for building software platforms. This partnership marks an important milestone in our software-defined vehicle journey. Together with Intel, we intend to work on a joint go-to-market strategy for our customers in Asia, where we see strong demand for our high-performance compute system-on-chip range vehicle solutions. The second partnership is with Arm, the SoftBank-owned British semiconductor and software design company based in Cambridge in the U.K.
We already have a strong partnership with Arm and have recently developed solutions for SDVs or software-defined vehicles, using the SOAFEE framework that we demonstrated at ELIV and CES. Arm microprocessor chip architecture represents the world's largest computational footprint, while technology underpins the software, the smartphone revolution, and is ubiquitous in IoT, embedded, mobile, and automotive applications. We are absolutely thrilled to continue to collaborate closely with Arm, including working with them on a range of new solutions, bringing cloud-native software architecture for automotive applications into upcoming Arm-based automotive chips. We're looking forward to sharing more detail on these partnerships along with live demonstrations at industry events in the coming months. Our efforts from a customer and a capability perspective continue to attract the attention and respect of industry watch organizations like Zinnov.
With their recently published industry rankings, Tata Technologies was confirmed for the 6th consecutive year as the number 1 automotive engineering service provider in India. And in their new EV rankings, Tata Technologies was not only confirmed as number 1 in India, but number two globally. From the perspective of supply, we remain confident in the growing demand for our services, and so we continue to add delivery capacity. In Q3, we added 174 new team members to our global ER&D and digital delivery teams. We also inaugurated a new innovation center in Coimbatore that will focus on vehicle software. Our employee engagement initiatives continue to yield success, with the last 12-month voluntary attrition coming down to 15.4% in the quarter, compared with 17.2% in Q2. Our Q3 annualized attrition was at 13.6%.
We continue to invest in talent development activities for our teams. In Q3, we trained over 8,000 employees, with more than 1,000 employees trained on Gen AI, AI, and ML, and 3,000 employees trained on various aspects of our embedded electronics and software proposition. From a technology solutions perspective, our products and education business delivered strong sequential growth of 5% in INR, fueled largely by our software products business. The products business, which is focused primarily upon our value-added reseller partnerships with the PLM software vendors, typically does well at the end of each calendar year when our customers in the U.S. renew maintenance contracts and this year's year-end budgets. In our education vertical, we've built a large order book, which has allowed revenue to be smoother and much more predictable than in prior years. We expect this to continue.
Overall, despite the short-term headwinds associated with the run-up for VinFast, customer demand remains resilient, and we are well positioned for a very strong start in FY 2025. With that, let me hand it over to Savitha to give an update on the details of our Q3 financial performance.
Thank you, Warren. Good morning or good evening, everyone, depending on where you're joining us from, and thank you for joining this call today. Continuing on the details that Warren shared about how our business is shaping up, let me share with you the financial performance in the third quarter. Overall, the results were resilient with a solid margin profile in a quarter that tends to be seasonally slow due to the festive holidays in various parts of the world. Our revenue from operations grew 1.6% sequentially to INR 12,895 million for the quarter. On a year-on-year basis, the growth in revenue was 14.7%. On a constant currency basis, total revenues grew 1.9% sequentially from Q2 and 11.6% on a year-on-year basis.
Breaking this down into the two segments that we operate in, revenue from services segment, which forms about 78% of our revenues in this quarter, was up 0.6%, quarter-on-quarter, to clock a top line of about INR 10 billion. This segment was impacted by holidays and the ramp down in one of our Major Full Vehicles program as the project nears the launch phase, and this was partly balanced by growth in other accounts. In U.S. dollar constant currency terms, revenues were down 1.7% sequentially. In the technology solutions segment, grew by 5.2% over Q2 to clock a revenue of INR 2.89 billion, largely supported by the renewal deals that is characteristic of the final quarter of the calendar year in the products business.
The year-on-year growth was a more robust 38.9%, supported by increased delivery in our education business this year, compared with the previous financial year, which was heavily back-ended, with only a third of our annual revenues in this business clocked in the first 9 months, given the project stage and state of infrastructure readiness by our customers. Our operating margins increased by 140 basis points sequentially to 18.3% in Q3, driven by improved services gross margins. That saw increased offshoring, reduced spend on our growth path as we ramped down or replaced contractors in line with our revenue profile. As well as, to some extent, better revenue quality in Q3, against some of the pass-through business that we've had in Q2 relating to certain realization work for our projects.
We recognized other income of about INR 307 million during the quarter. Consequentially, our EBIT was up 11.3% sequentially and up 5.2% year-on-year to INR 2,094 million. In line with the improvements witnessed in the operating EBITDA margin, EBIT margin also expanded 140 basis points sequentially to 16.2% during the December quarter. Our effective tax rate was 27.6%, and the sequential increase was driven by a higher percentage of profits coming from India and the U.K. this quarter, compared with the previous quarter. Net income increased by 14.7% year-on-year to INR 1,702 million, representing 13.2% of our operating revenues.
Coming to balance sheet, we have continued to remain focused on strong liquidity, with $132.5 million in net cash at the end of the third quarter. This compares to $120 million that we had at the end of September. The total DSO, bills and unbilled, stood at 95 days at the end of December, versus 92 days at the end of Q2. The increase in bill DSO from 73-81 days was more invoicing as we hit certain milestones in our delivery-based projects, while the unbilled DSO reduced from 19-15 days. Overall, the DSO remains within our target range of 90-110 days.
Coming to cash flows, our free cash flow stood at INR 2,198 million in Q3, and we continue to strive to further improving our cash collections and conversion levels. Let me now give you some color on the operational metrics. Our headcount increased by 172 employees sequentially. Our total employee count stood at 12,623 at the end of the quarter.
And as Warren referenced in his comments, we are in the process of redeploying resources who are coming off the large full vehicle projects, and we should see utilization levels improve as these actions take effect. Attrition levels have continued to come down and stood at 13.4% compared to 17.2% in second quarter, as we continue to see positive impact from our employee engagement measures, as well as an overall reduction in the industry-wide attrition levels. Our employee costs increased by 2.9% sequentially, driven by about 3% increase in our average headcount during the quarter. And this was more than offset by an 18% sequential reduction in our outsourcing and consulting charges as we continue to optimize our cost base.
Our customer pyramid, which shows the number of customers with $1 million plus in revenue, has continued to show steady improvement. I'd like to specifically call out customers in the $1-$5 million category, which has increased to 29 in third quarter compared to 24 in the same quarter last year. As far as the on-site and offshore mix is concerned, the mix has moved in favor of offshore this quarter. Of our total services revenue, offshore revenue improved to 56% from 54.5% in Q2. As a percentage of the offshore of the revenue, which references revenues that we sourced from outside our delivery centers in India and Romania, 39.5% of revenue was delivered offshore, compared to 37% in the previous quarter. We continue to work on measures to gradually improve this metric.
Before we open up the call for Q&A, I can conclude my remarks by saying, we'll continue to make the necessary investments in building capabilities and capacity in the areas of industry focus, such as SDVs, EDs, alternative propulsion systems, and autonomous to create a runway for sustained growth. At the same time, we maintain our focus on operational efficiencies and keeping our cost base competitive. Our long-term levers of margin expansion continue to focus on increasing offshoring, moving towards an optimal people pyramid and operating leverage as our business scales. Thank you. We can now open the floor for questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question, Warren. And congratulations on a very good operating performance. My first question is on the outlook, especially around VinFast-
Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request you to use your handset, sir? Your audio is slightly muffled, sir.
Sure.
Thank you.
Hi, is this better?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on a good operating performance. Warren, I wanted to you know, pick your brain around outlook on VinFast specifically first. You said you expect some drop in Q4 as well. I wanted to understand if you know, Q4 will probably be the last of the decline in this account, and then we can see some stability or you know, how should we you know, think about you know, when given that most of the programs you're working on are coming to an end?
Yeah, thanks, Abhishek, and it's great to hear from you. In terms of VinFast, you know, as I positioned in the opening comments, you know, we began the transition from engineering and developing the two EVs that we've been responsible for. We began the transition to launch support in Q2.
And that accelerated in Q3, and we'll be largely through that transition at the end of Q4. So as we go into FY 2025, the base will largely be unaffected by any volatility or change at VinFast. So, you know, we, we expect, a slight tapering of growth in, in Q4, but as we go into, into the next fiscal year, you know, we're very bullish about our, our prospects for Q1, Q2, Q3, and Q4.
Great. So just one quick follow-up on VinFast. We heard, you know, VinFast's plan to enter into India, and, and set up shop here. Does that give us, you know, you know, scope of, improving that relationship and maybe expanding it, and, and therefore, should we expect some growth, you know, once they enter India?
You know, I think as with many new energy vehicle companies, when they develop a product, they develop the first products that underpin their portfolio. They quickly shift to building products and to selling products. And that's the phase that VinFast are in. And I think that their prospects for further expansion and for expanding the manufacturing capacity is going to be somewhat dependent and linked to the success of the current portfolio. So, we're very proud of the relationship with VinFast.
We're very excited about the impact that they can have on the overall market. But the timing for when they come here in India and the timing associated with when they will launch new product investments is still from our perspective still somewhat up in the air.
Okay. One last question from my side on the large deal that you mentioned, $50 million deal. You know, the rebalancing of engineering resources from U.S. to India, it sounds a little counterfactual to the, you know, insourcing trend that we hear in the market. I just wanted to understand, is it because, you know, the OEMs are increasingly under budget constraints, and therefore, you know, that is driving higher offshoring? Is that, you know, kind of driven by that? And if so, do you see this kind of trend accelerating going forward? Thank you.
You know, I think if you look at the North American market and you look at Detroit specifically, I think despite the investments that have been made in offshoring, a substantial part of the Detroit resource pool that is leveraged by the big three and the tier ones is somewhat still dependent upon staffing companies.
And I think that the need to invest in capacity and new skills, I think all of the companies that are finally at the North American market, I think they're increasingly looking to India and to offshore locations like Eastern Europe to satisfy that new demand. That's really what this deal is focused on. You know, as the clock speed of technology takes and continues to accelerate, the access to local talent is somewhat.
Okay. That's very helpful. Thank you and all the best, Warren.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Jayesh Gandhi from Ganthi Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hello, Warren. You made some very interesting remarks concerning the evolution of the automotive ecosystem as you see it, and as well, your own evolution in terms of your offerings and now your partnership announcements. With that in mind, two things, if I may. Number one, what are you seeing in terms of your engagements or pipeline with regard to functions that complement PLM? And I have in mind specifically, for example, simulation, ALM and other associated applications. Are you beginning to see more demand with those functions complement your PLM implementation work? And then with regard to the partnerships, the comments about Intel and Arm are quite interesting.
Would it stand to reason that you could take that a step further and also partner with any role of the EDA companies, such as Siemens, with whom you already have a relationship, or the others to further deepen your exposure to the electronics world?
Yeah. It's great to hear from you, Jay, and again, thanks for joining in, joining the conference call and thanks for the questions. You know, I think there's a number of questions in there, and I think if I answered them comprehensively, we'd probably be on the call all night. But I think, you know, just in terms of summary, I think if we look at the work that we're doing with the companies that we're working with on the digital side, I think increasingly, you know, we are looking at comprehensive digital twin and digital thread initiatives that extend beyond PLM, certainly, ALM, and into manufacturing execution systems and ERP systems.
One of the things that I think has really defined the difference of matters that we represent is the ability to be able to integrate those platforms in a way that's aligned and required by the industry and the companies that we are working with. And we certainly see that the analysis and simulation is a key component of that in some of our most recent implementations of profiles. The value that can be crystallized if you can get the integration right and you can align that to an optimized product development process.
As far as the relationships with the chip manufacturers, you know, they are relationships that we are very excited about. And I referenced that, you know, the industry is going through a transition from a supply chain that was somewhat vertical and controlled by the OEM to a horizontal ecosystem that is somewhat dependent upon the contribution from multiple players. And I think partnerships and alliances are gonna define the industry going forward. And we are very excited about, you know, being able to really form a meaningful relationship with the type of companies that we believe will be a major player.
Obviously, Intel and Arm are major players today, but I think the strategies and the commitment that they are making to the mobility sector certainly gives us, gives us confidence that they're gonna grow their influence, and, and by association, we expect to make a big contribution towards their, their plans.
Okay. Thank you, Warren.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Kshitij Saraf from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, good evening. Congratulations on the consistency and the performance. My first question is on the partnerships. So, we have ARM as a partner and, we have Intel as a partner. So, with Intel, we primarily intend to focus on the APAC and, with ARM in the European region. Is that understanding kind of correct?
No. The solutions that we're looking to deploy, we will take to the market globally. But specifically in Asia Pacific, we have agreed to work with Intel on a joint go-to-market proposition that will be focused upon Southeast Asia and specifically China. So that's an extension of the technical partnership that we're celebrating today.
Okay. And, the Tata Group overall announced the collaboration with NVIDIA for the DRIVE platform, with relation to 2026, 2027 launches. So would other technologies play a role in that whole piece?
Yeah. We're not at liberty, because of confidentiality agreements to share specifics of what we're doing for different customers. But rest assured, with regard to JLR and EML, we're involved in all aspects of their product development process. And so when announcements of that type are made, you can have confidence that Tata Technologies is involved.
Got it. That's very helpful. Lastly, one on the client pyramid and the mining efforts, how is the pipeline for the large deals shaping up? How does it work for you guys? Does it so happen that the $1-$50-odd million bracket engagements, they become into a more holistic sort of end-to-end solution, or does it start from a large contract when from a new customer? Any light there would be really helpful.
You know, I think the architecture and the specifics of large deals vary from customer to customer, engagement to engagement. But what I will say is that we are targeting large deals, both in terms of our hunting activities and in terms of the relationships that we have with our existing customers. One of the things that we've been focusing on is proactive architecting of large propositions that address the unmet needs of our customers. And that investment and that capability that we are building is in part what's informed progress that we're making on the large deal front.
Very helpful. Thank you so much. Congratulations and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Our next question is from the line of Karan Uppal from PhillipCapital India. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. So Warren, first question is on EV. So we have seen some of our customers, you know, adoption, which has slowed down in EVs in U.S. and Europe due to multiple reasons. So we have a very strong presence in EV segment. So will it have any impact on our business due to this?
Yeah, that's a great question, and a question that we've been asked multiple times since the statements from companies like GM and Ford and to a lesser extent, the likes of Toyota. You know, our view is that the pendulum swing has been affected within the automotive industry in terms of the move to alternative propulsion systems. In all of the projects that we are currently involved with from a product development perspective, almost all of the projects have some form of electrification. If you look at where the industry is investing, you know, we are-- we're quite confident that the thrust towards-...
The skill sets and capabilities that we have will not only continue, but it will sustain, you know, through the extended, you know, the extended period over the next five to 10 years. You know, I think that there are some specific things that are influencing the North American market. I think that there is, there's concerns about the change in the White House at the end of the year and the impact that that will have on the Inflation Reduction Act. And that, and that there may be things like that that will play out in different parts of the world. And I think that that could have an impact on demand and the number of units that are sold.
But I do not believe that it's going to impact the investment in new products. We are typically, when we are engaged to develop products for our customers, investing in what will define the competitive position of our customers in three and four years' time. And we do not see, at the moment, any compromise or slowdown in the demand that we've been building our thesis around for the last three to four years.
Okay. Thank you all for the detailed answer. Second question is, regarding the services segment. So in, in services, we have seen a growth rate of close to double digits with, you know, in this quarter and in H1 as well around mid-teen. So considering the drop from VinFast, how should we think about the growth in services segment, for, for FY 2025?
Yeah, as I said before, I, I think that the transition from engineering to launch support, it impacted Q3. We expect further runoff in Q4, and so growth will taper. But we'll be largely through it, come the end of February, March, March timeframe. And so as we go into FY 2025, you know, the base will be solid, and we expect to continue the growth through this trajectory that we've been on for the last three years. So we're extremely bullish about next year, and we anticipated what happened at VinFast. We planned and we prepared for it, so this is not a surprise.
Okay. And last question is on margins. So the margins have seen, you know, very smart expansion over the last three years, and right in this quarter also, we have seen a margin expansion. So from medium-term perspective, how are you thinking about, you know, margins? Are they optimized, or do you think there's still room for expansion going ahead?
I'll let, I'll let Savita take that one.
Yeah, thanks for the question. You know, I think there's been a lot of concerted efforts to look at improving our cost base and our operation efficiencies. And the result of that is what you've seen as part of our margin expansion story, aided of course by growth that we've enjoyed as well. And if you look at within the industry, one would say that our peers of similar size tend to operate at the same level that we are at right now, somewhere between 18%-18.5%. And that's the value that at this point we want to consistently be able to deliver.
As we continue to grow and scale our business, the North Star, in the medium to long term, would be to try and build another 200-250 basis points on top of this level, and that's the kind of goal post we try and move the business towards.
Any timeline you are looking at for this 200-250 expansion?
Sorry, could you repeat your question?
I'm saying any timeline you are looking at for this 200-250 expansion, maybe over the next one year, two years?
At this point in time, I'm afraid we won't be able to put a specific timeline on it. But as the business scales, one should be able to see the benefits of that flowing through to margins, through both operating leverage and efficiency.
Okay, great. Thanks. Thank you a lot for all this.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish T. from GAM Investments. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. So we do understand that we also have an engagement with Airbus. So as far as the recent development is concerned, where you know, Airbus and will be manufacturing H135 single-engine helicopters, again, based out of Gujarat facility. So if you could help us understand our engagement in that scheme of things? You said that we are involved with Tata Motors and Jaguar Land Rover in almost every aspect. So would it be fair to assume that as far as Airbus and Tata Group contracts are concerned, we are spread across pretty nicely?
Again, I, I'm not at liberty to confirm the specifics of the engagement that we have with Tata or Airbus. But what I will say is that we were accredited by Airbus some 18 months ago. We're now part of their EMES3 supply program. That program is a program that supports over EUR 2 billion of annualized outsourced spend. And increasingly, that spend is coming to India. We are the only accredited Tata Group engineering service provider.
The relationship between Airbus and the Tata Group continues to grow, not just with the C295 engagement with TASL, but also through the investment that Air India have made in terms of a new aircraft that will be coming into the fleet in the next couple of years. We believe that the tailwinds associated with that partnership will provide a significant opportunity for Tata Technologies.
So we're excited about the relationship with Airbus. We've invested in opening up facilities in Toulouse and Hamburg. We've had a long-standing relationship with TASL. We have a relationship with Air India, and we expect to continue to support all of those organizations as we build out our aerospace proposition in the future.
Would we have a similar engagement with Boeing as well?
We've worked with Boeing for many, many years. I worked in the 1990s through the partnership that we have with Dassault Systèmes on the first digital aircraft, the 777. We were also a major supplier to their PLM initiatives in and around the 1987. We have a number of tactical engagements with Boeing at the moment and are in discussions with regard to scaling that and making that relationship into something that's meaningful to both organizations. So we do have ambitions to build out our partnership with Boeing.
Well, this is helpful. So and lastly, our proportion of services business and the technology business to our overall revenues. So 80% of the revenue is coming from services part, but does that actually remain stable or you envisage a higher percentage contribution as we go ahead into the years?
You know, I think our ambitions are to scale the services business at a faster rate than the technology solutions business. The technology solutions business is important to us because it helps us maintain the relationship with the technology vendors that provide the technology stack on which manufacturing companies do business. And so it's important in terms of revenue, but it's more important in terms of the strategic contribution that it makes to our business. So our ambitions in terms of growth for technology solutions is somewhat lesser than the ambitions that we have for our services business.
Hmm. Yeah, this is very helpful. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. Our next question is from the line of Kshitij Saraf from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you again. If I could just chip in with one more question. We have 80% of revenues within services segment from the auto industry. So, going forward, how do we see this mix shifting, because we have aerospace and the tailwind there, and there's a mention of helping the world farm as well. So in context of that, is industrial heavy machinery and any sort of work that you're doing you could share, and what's building in the pipeline? What sort of capabilities are around will be helpful.
Yeah, it's a, it's a great, great question. And, and I think just in terms of how we are looking at, at the industry diversification in, in the business, you know, we continue at our heart, to, to focus upon the, the mobility sector. We are, recognized by Zinnov as the number one automotive engineering service provider in, in India. And I think our, our proposition in our full vehicle, our full, turnkey capabilities that we have in, in automotive, that extend, beyond mechanical into, embedded electronics and software-defined vehicles. I think our proposition continues to, to differentiate ourselves and, and by association, represents significant opportunity, and we want to harvest that opportunity. So we're gonna stay focused upon, automotive.
But aerospace is a business that it represents a much smaller base. And so in percentage terms, given the relationship that we've established with Airbus specifically, and given the investments that the group is making, we expect the growth rate of aerospace to extend and exceed the growth in automotive. With farm and construction and heavy machinery, you know, typically that industry lags automotive by three to four years. And so the move to electrification, connected, autonomous, and shared, we're starting to see that in the farm equipment and the construction equipment space. And many of the skills and experiences that we capitalize in automotive, are directly fungible to the opportunity that that vertical represents. So we certainly see...
That the aerospace, transport, construction, and heavy machinery in three to five years' time will likely make up a bigger percentage of our services mix than they do today. But that, you know, continues to—but I would continue to reinforce that we are not going to be diverted from the material and the sizable opportunity that we continue to see in automotive.
Thank you. All the best. Congratulations.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Pai from Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Warren, you mentioned that FY 2025 is going to see robust growth, on the one hand, whereas you're saying that VinFast, which is probably a largish kind of customer, which constituted almost like 20%-25% of revenues in FY 2023, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know the numbers for FY 2024. We're winding down by Q4. So what is gonna, you know, replace that in FY 2025 and still deliver robust growth?
Again, great question. And so in terms of our business plan and expectations for next year, you know, we are working with our automotive customers on the move to electrification and the move to connected and software-defined vehicles. And increasingly, we are seeing a shift of investment from mechanical systems into the new tech areas. And that's why we've invested very heavily in terms of capacity in those areas and also in terms of capability. And that's why the partnerships with Agratas, the partnerships with Intel, and the partnerships with Arm are so important.
Our expectations for growth next year are informed by order book, and informed by pipeline in and around those vectors. You know, we also see with aerospace that we will significantly improve the contribution from Airbus as a customer. You know, we were empaneled 18 months ago. We have gone through the accreditation process at Airbus. Airbus is a very regulated company, and so we've had to demonstrate compliance in multiple areas. We've opened offices in Toulouse and in Hamburg. And during that time, we've built up a sizable order book, and we expect to discharge that next year.
So the, the order book and trust book that we've, we've built in, in automotive together with the pipeline and the expectations that we have in and around, accounts like Airbus, are really inspiring the confidence that we have about the next fiscal year.
Okay. My second question, Warren, in one of your media interviews, I think prior to the IPO, you mentioned that the exposure to the Tata Group, not just Tata Motors and JLR, was to the extent of almost 43%, if I'm not mistaken. And you made a point that that is up. So is it gonna come from Tata Motors, JLR or some other entities in the Tata Group?
Yeah, I would distinguish the Tata Motors Group from other Tata Group companies. Agratas is a subsidiary of Tata Sons, not the Tata Motors Group. In terms of percentages last year, Tata Motors and JLR at an aggregate revenue level represented less than 33%. Because of the confidence that both of those organizations have, given their recent success, they've increased CapEx over the last 12 months, and that CapEx investment, and these are public domain numbers. That CapEx investment is expected to rise somewhat exponentially. And so we clearly want to harvest that opportunity, and so we are bullish about the growth at Tata Motors and JLR.
As a result, in the short term, we expect the percentage contribution from the Tata Motors Group to spike up a little bit. But I think medium to long term, the trend that we've been on for the last 10 years is likely to continue. And I certainly would expect in three to five years' time the contribution from Tata Motors Group to diminish in percentage terms because of the growth that we see outside of the group. Now, you know, typically within the group, in the past, we've worked with organizations like Tata Steel, we've worked with Tata, and we've worked with Air India, and we'll continue to cultivate independent relationships with those organizations.
But the, the partnership that I guess I'm most excited about at the moment, is the partnership with, with Agratas. The group is making a major investment in, in gigafactories. There will, be a need for a pack engineering and pack design capabilities. We will, we'll have the opportunity to partner with them in terms of industrializing the plants in, in Gujarat, in, and in the U.K. And in deploying the digital tools that will enable the, the development of, a product and the, the optimization of how they run the operations, and specifically, drive the, the smart manufacturing solutions into the, into the gigafactory. So very, very excited about the, the partnership that we've announced today, and, and the potential that it augurs, in the future.
As I said in my opening comments, it really extends upstream the Tata Technologies capabilities. Traditionally, we've, we've taken responsibility for systems integration of, of batteries and battery management systems. And, and this partnership will, will afford us the opportunity to build and cultivate capabilities in and around the, the engineering and the design and the development of, of batteries. Not just for the, for the automotive industry, but also for, for the two-wheeler, and the, and the three-wheeler space, and also non-mobility, products that require batteries in the future.
My last question is with regard to what you're seeing in the pipeline. The size of orders. The largest order would be of what size? Would it be like somewhere around INR 100 million-INR 50 million or INR 100 million? What is the approximate size of the largest order that you're seeing in your pipeline?
You know, all that I would say as far as order book and pipeline is concerned, is that we are confident that the order book and the pipeline will support the ambitions that we have for growth next year. You know, we don't disclose specific customer order book information, and we don't disclose the aggregate order book information. I would just say again, that we are confident that we have a sufficient platform and sufficient opportunity to realize the type of growth that's expected of this sector.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question of our question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Lohiya for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us on the call today. We hope that we've been able to answer most of your questions. If there are any further questions, please do get in touch with our investor relations team, and we will be happy to answer all your questions. Goodbye from all of us, all of us here at the management team.
Thank you. On behalf of Tata Technologies, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.