Good day, and welcome to Tube Investments Q4 and FY 2024 earnings conference call hosted by IIFL Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Ria, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to the results conference call for Tube Investments of India for FY 2024. From the management we have Mr. Vellayan Subbiah, Executive Vice Chairman for TI; Mr. Arunachalam, Executive Chairman for TI; Mr. Mukesh Ahuja, Managing Director; Mr. A.N. Meyyappan, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. K.R. Srinivasan, President and Whole- Time Director for the Metal Formed Products Business; Mr. Shivdeep Singh Jammu, Vice President for TPI; Mr. N. Govindarajan, CEO for 3xper Innoventure; Mr. K.K. Paul, CEO for TICMPL; Mr. S. Gopalakrishnan, CFO for TICMPL; and Mr. K. Murali, President for Business Development. To start off, I'll hand it over to Mr. Subbiah for the opening comments, and we'll start the Q&A after that. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Anupam, and good morning, everybody. The Board of Directors of TI met yesterday and approved the financial results for the quarter and year ended March 31, 2024. The board has declared an interim dividend of INR 2 per share in February 2024, and the same was paid to shareholders in March. The Board has now recommended a final dividend of INR 1.50 per share for the financial year 2023-24. Revenue for the quarter was INR 1,962 crores as against INR 1,663 crores in the same quarter previous year. Revenue for the year was at INR 7,611 crores compared to INR 7,236 crores for the previous year.
PBT for the quarter was at INR 318 crores as against INR 301 crores in the same quarter previous year. PBT for the year was at INR 970 compared to INR 876 in the previous year. ROIC was at 54% for the year ended 31st March 2024, as against 55% in the previous year. Free cash flow for the quarter was INR 104 crores, and cumulative free cash flow for the year was INR 376 crores, which was 51% of that, mainly driven by additional capital expenditure in some of our existing businesses. I'll go through a quick review of the businesses.
The engineering business has revenue for the quarter at INR 1,276 crore compared with INR 1,044 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Profit before interest and tax for the quarter was INR 160 crore, as against INR 132 crore in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Revenue for the full year was INR 4,921 crore compared with INR 3,562 crore, and PBIT was at 617 versus 549. That was for the engineering business. Metal Form revenue for the quarter was 386 versus 347. The PBIT for the quarter was 42 as against 45 in the corresponding quarter of last year.
Revenue for the full year was INR 1,519 crores compared to INR 1,424 crores. PBIT for the full year was INR 187 crores as against INR 134 crores in the previous year. The mobility business, revenue for the quarter was INR 154 crores compared with INR 155 crores in the corresponding quarter, and losses before interest and tax was INR 9 crores as against a loss of INR 5 crores. Revenue for the full year was INR 664 crores compared with INR 800 crores for the previous year, and loss was INR 18 crores, PBIT before interest and tax versus INR 17 crores the previous year. Other businesses, our revenue was INR 230 crores compared to INR 191 crores, and PBIT was INR 17 crores as against INR 11 crores.
Full year, 834 crores compared to 768, and PBIT of 65 compared to 48. At a consolidated level, and that's consolidating in all of our subsidiaries, including CG Power and Shanthi, and Clean Mobility. The consolidated revenue was 4,490 as against 3,778 in this quarter. And our PBT, before share of profit of an associate joint venture, exceptional items, and tax for the quarter was 401 crores as against 403 crores in the corresponding quarter previous year. TI's consolidated revenue for the year was at 16,890 crores as against 14,964 crores in the previous year, and their profit was 1,683 crores as against 1,592 crores in the previous year.
CG Power, a company in which we have a 58.05% stake, had consolidated revenue of INR 2,192 for the quarter, as against INR 1,903, and PBIT was at 301 as against 281. For the year ended March 31, 2024, CG's consolidated revenue was INR 8,046, as against INR 6,973 in the previous year. And profit before tax was INR 1,158, as against INR 1,002 in the previous year. Shanthi Gears had revenue of INR 154 for the quarter, as against INR 123, and profit before tax was 17 as against 27. The revenue for the year, as against, was INR 536, as against INR 446, and profit before tax was 110 as against 90.
Commenting on the financial results, Mr. M.A.M. Arunachalam said, TII demonstrated resilience, achieving a consistent growth in consolidated profits before tax, driven by a strategic focus on cost reduction initiatives and operational efficiency through cGMP. Exports during the year have grown by 14%, notably our subsidiary CG Power and Shanthi Gears sustained their impressive performance. CG Power secured approval from the Indian Cabinet under India Semiconductor Mission to establish an outsourced semiconductor assembly and test facility with an investment of INR 7,600 crore over 5 years. The investment will be supported by Government subsidies, equity, and limited bank borrowing with technology and joint venture partnerships with Renesas and Stars Microelectronics. Additionally, TII and subsidiary TI Clean Mobility forged an agreement with GEF to raise INR 580 crore through CCPS.
TI's board has recommended a final dividend of INR 150 per share for the financial year. So Anupam, I'll stop with, stop with that, and we'll be happy to take questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. My first question pertains to the clarification on other expenses and standalone, we have seen a
Can you hear him clearly? Can you hear him clearly?
Yeah. Is it better now? Yeah. Am I audible now?
Yeah, yeah, much better.
Yeah. My question is on a first clarification on the other expenses that seem to have gone up quite substantially in the fourth quarter, and because of which reported margins have declined. Any one-off other expenses which you can call off or or what's the reason for increase?
So, um-
One- time, yeah.
Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. There, there are a couple of one-time expenses, including political contributions that might have contributed to it.
Okay. And, the large part of delta, which would be about INR 50-odd crore, would be one-off?
Sorry?
Almost one-off quantum would be, what, INR 40 crores-INR 50 crores or lower than that?
No, no, it's lower than that. It's lower than that.
Okay. And second question pertains to the engineering business. So, given that, FY24 was a year where we started to see recovery in exports, can you talk about, how did exports grow in FY24? What was the contribution in FY24 from exports, and how do you see that scaling up?
So exports this quarter were pretty good. There was a good growth in the engineering business as well as other businesses. Exports as a percentage, totally, it was about 14% in this financial year. And we see a good leads available going forward with a couple of OEM getting approved in the short term. So we are bullish about exports going forward.
Okay. Okay. And, effectively, our target of taking it up to 20%, would play out in the next couple of years?
Yeah, that's right.
Got it. And, the other question pertains to the large diameter tubes. So given that our expansion will be completed by second quarter, what kind of revenue can we expect from the fully expanded capacity, including the first and the second, I mean, the existing capacity and the new capacity put together?
So like I said, that capacity expansion will be over by Q2, and then because it is a, we are investing into capability, then we have to go for approvals of the large customers, for which we are doing it, and then there'll be TF process followed. And there'll be good headroom available for enhancing revenue from that expansion.
Okay. And we can quantify in terms of either in terms of the capacity addition, or the kind of revenues which we can do?
If you can take it, about a range of around 30%-40% excess capacity will be available for this expansion, for large diameter tubes.
Got it. Got it. A few more questions that I'll follow back in queue.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nishit Jalan from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, I just wanted to take one top-down thing from you. Tube is getting into a lot of new businesses, right? And so also CG Power. So just wanted to understand, how are you deciding which company will enter into which business? So, for example, medical business or the optical lens business was in Tube, while the semiconductor business and all is part of CG Power. So any top-down thought process as to which entity will be part of which new businesses that you enter in future?
Yeah, no, I think that's a good question. See, broadly, the approach we've taken is kind of... that CG is sticking to businesses that are kind of what I would say, kind of in the power, in industrial and electronics areas. But I would also say that, I don't think it's kind of, we, I don't think it's basically gonna be predetermined, right? So basically, once an opportunity comes up, we basically try and assess where-- what is a better long-term home for it. And, and also you have CGs and TIs managements also doing some independent valuation and coming up with opportunities for themselves. So I don't think there's a deterministic path by which we can tell you A, B, C will be there, because a lot of these businesses are new businesses for us.
Okay. Okay, got it. I think couple of quarters back, you talked about building capabilities on electric vehicle side. I think you did highlight that right now we are more like doing assembly and procuring components from outside. Just wanted to understand any progress that you have made on building capabilities, how big is the R&D team now, and in the next 1-2 years, which kind of components will you look to source in-house or build in-house rather than buying from outside?
Yeah. So again, we're developing an approach that... I mean, I don't know if that question is specific to CG. You know, then kind of-
Yes, that you can tell.
Sorry? For Tube.
Tube. Yeah, tube.
No, for Tube, so specifically, I mean, from a TI Clean Mobility, R&D, that's first gonna be focused on vehicle integration, right? And, so, you know, and then we basically start thinking on the, on the component side. And like we've articulated before, CG will be more focused on the component side development, and TI Clean Mobility will be more focused on vehicle integration and being an OEM. So I don't know if that gives you clarity. If you want to know more about TI Clean Mobility R&D, I can kind of give you details on that.
So, specifically, for example, BMS, battery pack, anything, you have talked about that motor will come under CG, but what about the BMS battery pack or anything that you decide to do on the software side? Because that will be an important part on the EV. So, I primarily wanted to understand more on the R&D capabilities of tube other than CG.
Yeah. So battery packing and, and software development obviously will kind of be part of vehicle integration. That's overall software development. You know, Paul, who's on the call, can give you a bit more detail as to what we're doing on R&D for TI Clean Mobility. Paul, do you want to take this? Paul, Clean Mobility.
I think currently, you know, we are focusing on the vehicle integration for a different platform. We currently have over 200 members strong central R&D team, and we are further strengthening it. So that's one piece. The other piece that we are concentrating is building the software capability over the next one year period, where we would like to, you know, take over much of the consumer experience part of it through software, and then have a lot of control over the powertrain. That is basically battery, BMS, motor, and controller related with software and hardware. That's the direction that we are taking to clearly, truly become quite technologically superior from a software integrated hardware piece. Yeah, I trust this answers your question.
Okay. Okay, okay. One last thing on the recent results. If we see this year at FY 2024, will we see a good growth in two or double-digit growth? And also a good growth in passenger vehicle segment, including commercial vehicles. But if I look at our engineering and metal form revenues, the growth is about 7%-8%. Any particular reason? Are we running out of capacity somewhere, or our customers are not that well? Because our expectation was that we could have grown in double digits, given how the industry has shaped up. Just wanted to understand and connect the dots there.
So, to answer this question, we have grown in the double digits only because, like we shared the last quarter, raw material prices are comparatively down as compared to the previous year. Otherwise, our growth in the quarter four and two-wheeler, like you mentioned, it is picking up. We have grown in line and sometimes even better than the market.
Okay. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Hi, Garvit Goyal?
Yes, sir.
Good morning, sir. My question is on engineering and metal formed products. So given that, our engineering metal formed products and the industrial systems division contribute over 80% of our revenue, and, we have achieved a Yo Y growth of 8%-9% in FY 2024. So what are the specific strategies, does the management plan to implement, to sustain and potentially accelerate this growth in the coming years? And additionally, are there any, particular markets or innovations that the company is targeting, to enhance our competitive edge in this sector?
So our strategy for engineering business and metal form division continues to be first, grow in line or better than the market for the domestic market, and there is a clear-cut focus for the exports. Because our market share in the exports are pretty low, and there is a good headroom available for growth there. And we are focusing those segments to drive the growth.
...As well as we are targeting, I mean, the EV, you know, evolution is happening in the country. So there are many applications which are emerging as new, and we are focused on that. And the way the EV business evolves, we'll be participating those new opportunities, which will be in area of weight reduction, in the area of the improved efficiency, because those are the new norms getting set up in the EV industry. So we are focused on.
Sir, our new verticals like mobility and other, these are expected to drive the growth future. So my question is basically, can you share how the things are shaping up across the new verticals? Like, how do you expect the things to ramp up from here? If you can just share the indicative timelines, like, when, when are we expected to achieve the break even, in mobility, for example? Like last quarter, you mentioned Q4 will witness the growth in EV business, but we are Q o Q down. So can you please, put some color on it?
Yeah. Specifically for EV, we've articulated that we won't give any, you know, forward-looking guidance because it's basically, there are just too many kind of uncertainties in the business. What we've clearly articulated for EV is that, now we have two products launched. The three-wheeler product is doing well in the southern markets, and now we're entering the northern markets. And we've also launched the truck, which is still kind of in its early days of kind of its sales cycle. What we've also kind of clearly articulated is that, you know, with the fundraising and, we will not depend on TI for funding, the parent, standalone TI for funding in that business. So that business is pretty much self-funded now.
I mean, as in, like, we fund it into the entity, and so there's an equity in TI Mobility itself to fund its growth. So more than that, kind of, giving specific guidance. So those are the two businesses that are selling now. We're hoping that in the next two quarters or so, we will get the small commercial vehicles also out. And so that's the status on that business from the perspective.
So what is the overview, overall outlook for FY 2025? That is the last question from my end.
For Clean Mobility or for TI or for what?
For TI.
So again, we've not—I mean, basically, we've not specifically guided, but, you know, like, you know, I mean, the growth has been kind of in, in the teen, right? Kind of, you know, what I would say is kind of in the teens with where kind of growth has been. We believe that that will continue.
Okay, that's it from myself and all the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nikunj Agarwal from White Whale Partners. Please go ahead.
Hi, this is Arjun here. Can you hear me?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead with the question.
Yeah. Okay, great. So just going back to the, you know, one of the questions asked earlier in terms of, how you decide on entering new businesses. I think a while ago, maybe a few quarters ago, from what I understand, the thought process was that anything related with, motors and the power would be coming through, CG Power, and the rest of the unrelated businesses, let's say, like medical equipment or, even yet to come through, tube. But right now it seems like has there been a change in, kind of, you know, the mindset or the thought process here in terms of how new businesses are treated?
No, I think... See, the question keeps coming back to obviously, kind of, if there's gonna be anything that's gonna be related to motors or power, it will naturally go to, CG, right? Where there's a natural fit, I don't think there's that much of a question, right? I'm saying kind of where something may not be a hundred percent natural fit, we will have to evaluate that fit when the opportunity comes up. And that's all we're articulating. So I don't think there's any change. We're just kind of elaborating because it's a bit difficult to kind of make a statement on, where it's not so deterministic, right? I mean, so if it, if there's a new business, if you take medical, for example, there is not a natural home in either place. It was a new business for us, right?
That's the question where, you know, your question in is like when an opportunity like that presents itself, then we decide kind of, you know, on, on where, where we think the best fit will be.
But then that is a bit of a change in shape, right? Like, example, if medical equipment were to come, you know, it, you would be open to kind of possibly putting it through CG Power as well. You're open to that?
Yes. Yes. So, I mean, I think if you're asking... You know, so I would broadly say, see, CG Power is fairly well defined in terms of the businesses it takes on, right? But, like I said, if unrelated things come on, we will take a look at kind of which - where, where is the more natural place to house it. So yeah, if you see that, yes. Yes, so we can say that, that is, that is, that is the way we're thinking about it.
All right. Got it. Just two other questions. One was, you know, you mentioned about how Metal Form, the top line was slow because of the correction in commodity prices. But even if I look at the EBIT, I mean, you know, the EBIT is just a conversion margin, right? And so the EBIT should be growing kind of in double digits, which it's not. So anything else that's kind of weighing on the Metal Form product business from a profitability perspective?
Like we shared in the previous quarter, in Metal Form particularly, we are finding, railway business is getting more competitive, and that is little bit pulling down the margin. But otherwise, all other key business-
... the margin perspectives are okay. The railway, we have yet to figure out the answer for margins.
Okay. Okay. And on the electric vehicle front, you know, in December quarter, we did about INR 81 crore revenues, but in March quarter, you know, it's about INR 57 crore. This is a very, this is a very kind of, you know, nascent business. You would have thought like there should be a big ramp up on a sequential basis. So any issues or concerns out there?
Paul, do you want to take that one? No, I think as we said that, you know, these are newer businesses, and actually, you know, the volumes or the projections actually will start firming up as we get more traction in the market, and we are currently on that basis. With the first product that we've launched in the three-wheeler, we've made good progress, and gradually, a lot of products will be launched this year, as Mr. Subbiah was saying. And over a period, then, you know, we will have adequate representation in the market across the different segments, be it on the heavy commercial vehicle side or the small commercial vehicle side, and then a few more variants on the three-wheeler side, followed at the end of the year with the EV tractor launch.
With all this, then we should be in a position to, you know, garner some steady business and steady volumes, you know, and that's the plan that we are working on.
But specifically to your question also, there was an... In March, for the month of March, because of the change from FAME to the new scheme, there was a drop in three-wheeler primary sales, right? Though there was an increase in secondary sales. So that would have also swung the numbers.
Oh, okay.
and result in the drop.
Got it. Got it. One last quick one. You know, there's an approval being sought for INR 36 crore long-term borrowing. Is there any specific plans, you know, to deploy that, or is this just an enabling?
No, we always, we always kind of, I mean, like over at least once a year, we definitely kind of take those approvals. There's no specific plan which we're driving at. It's just a blanket approval that we take.
Okay, got it. Thank you much.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. Next question is from the line of Rushabh from RBSA Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Looking at the company, say, 5-7 years from now, how much percentage of the total profit pool, profit pool do you think would come from TI one, two, and three, respectively? Is there any aspiration or target on this?
It's a bit tough to say. Ideally, we'd like to be a third, a third, a third, but I don't know if it will kind of evolve in that way too.
Okay. And, sir, any traction or progress on CDMO medical devices and the camera modules? Anything that you'd like to share?
CDMO, Govind is just on a quick break. I'll check. Govind, you are there?
Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are audible.
Yeah, Govind, you are.
Okay.
Going good.
As far as the lab is concerned, like, we already started receiving custom synthesis orders. We have to take six orders. In fact, two of them have been delivered even ahead of time. As far as the manufacturing side is concerned, we commissioned the kilo lab, and it's fully functional. We had even built it before March to get the tax benefits. And currently, the cGMP pilot plant is under construction, which we plan to commission it by September. So that's the update as of now.
So, Rishab, does that answer your question?
Medical devices and camera modules also, if you could share some update.
Medical, like we discussed last time, we took over this company about 6-9 months back. As of now, we are investing into the capabilities of the company and getting into many products within the Lotus framework, and we're looking for the future opportunity. We expect a good growth going forward for business.
Okay.
Coming to the camera module, this month, our samples from Korea, one of the customer in Korea got approved, and we are expecting a pilot load order in this month. And, then maybe based on the pilot load performance, then we'll be ramping up with forward. So maybe another quarter down the line, we'll be able to give you better update. But quality perspective and technical perspective, there's a good news. Things are in order. We have to see how we ramp up this capacity going forward.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Manish Kumar, an investor . Please go ahead.
Hello.
Could you please speak a little louder, sir?
Am I audible now?
No, sir, we're not able to hear you clearly.... Mr. Manish Kumar, you can go ahead with your question.
Yeah, is it better now?
Yes, sir, please go ahead.
Yeah. So, my question is, pertaining to the investments purchased, of INR 563 crore. I was not able to find, a lot more details as to what these investments are, with, you know, where. So could you please, shed some light on that?
Yeah. That INR 650 crore is actually we have invested INR 333 crore in TICMPL, TI Clean Mobility during the year, and INR 233 crore in Lotus Surgicals when we acquire in May. And we have invested some INR 80 crore in 3xper, that's a medical company, CDMO.
Okay. And you know, what kind of synergies were you know looking that these investments are going to make in the existing businesses of TI Investments?
So I think the broad point is, I think the broad point is we've always talked from a synergy perspective that we're not driving this in a fully synergy-based approach. We're driving this based on opportunity sets that we see in new businesses over time. And so that's the primary focus of some of the expansion. And I think we've articulated this also before.
Yeah. Thanks a lot, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Salil Desai from Marcellus Investment Managers. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I had a question for Mr. Meyyappan, and so the segment assets less the segment liabilities in the electric vehicle segment is, has been negative, as of March 2024. Can you just kind of explain how to read this number?
Yeah, yeah. I'll, I, I'll just explain to you that. See, actually, the whatever the negative which you are seeing is after considering the CCPS, whatever we have got there, almost around 1,700 crores, which we have got. That is coming as a liability there, and that's a major reason for it. Then apart from this, we are also having a cash in hand of something like INR 750 crore there in that. After putting all this, the fixed assets, working capital, CCPS, and the cash on hand, it is coming to something like INR 61 crore as a negative over there. If you remove the CCPS and the cash on hand, then the capital employed in that business is 892 crores, that is what you have to read it.
Right. So just to kind of make sure I understand this, INR 892 crore is if we remove the CCPS and the cash on hand?
No. 1,700 is the CCPS.
Right.
That's negative, okay? That's cash on hand is positive INR 747.
Right.
You have to add approximately, say 61 will become 892. That's what I can just say.
Right. Okay, I understand. Right. And sir, another question for you on Lotus Surgical, right? We had this amortization of intangibles, right? And, how much longer do you think that is likely to continue? Do we remain at similar EBITDA levels as we are in this quarter, or is there a significant change that can happen?
There's a, intangible assets which gets created at the time of acquisition. See, because the-
Yes.
The cost of the assets, whatever it is, there in the books of account, say, Netflix assets or whatever is there, that will be lesser, and we'll be paying based on the market value. And difference between these two will become a goodwill, as well as the other intangible assets. Goodwill will be, will be retained in the books and balance will get amortized over the period. It will be approximately, it will be there for next five years or so. This, whatever the amortization which you're having. Yeah.
Got it. And the last question is, if Mr. Paul could help, so the small commercial vehicles will also be part of the same premises that you have in Manesar or you need to create separate facilities for that?
Small commercial vehicles.
Sorry, what's the question?
Sorry, what was the question on small commercial vehicles?
Where will you make these? Will these be in factory?
The factory is coming up in Chennai.
I see. All right. And how much would you be spending on it, approximately?
Sorry, what was the question? How much?
How much are we spending on the small commercial vehicle factory?
Total CapEx would be around INR 320 crores, sir. So far, if you look at the cash outflow, around INR 12 crores, you know, there was a cash outflow. However, POs have been released to the extent of INR 80-90 crores.
Understood, sir. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Balchandra Shinde from Kotak Life. Please go ahead.
Sir, on EV, would like to know your roadmap, how we see growth, especially on the EV tractor and EV three-wheeler. And on the dealer side, also network-wise, how we are improving there, and what kind of a growth targets we are targeting over the next three to five years perspective. And this quarter actually, sequentially, there was a decline. So, in that perspective, also, it's just a short-term phenomena, where we should see relatively growth happening on that side. If you can give color on that.
Two things, right? One is we just said-
Sorry?
One is we just said we won't give long-term guidance, right? So your question on 5-7 years, we're not giving long-term guidance on that.
... I think I've answered some of the points as well, in terms of, you know, how large a business I think it can be, but again, we don't want it to don't get in too much long-term value from that way. And second, we talked about this point about the sequential growth issue, which is March had low primary sales for three-wheeler because of the change in the, the incentive scheme. But, Paul, you can kind of elaborate here further, I think you'll be able to.
Yeah, I think, two things. One is currently, if you see, we are predominantly present in South and slowly started being present in North. By the end of this year, we have a very aggressive dealer expansion plan that will support the volume plans, and we are working around with that. That's number one for the three-wheeler business. And additionally, as I mentioned earlier, some newer products also will come into the picture. That will help us to, you know, further increase the volumes as we move along. So that's as far as the three-wheeler is concerned. The other ones are, you know, the products are getting developed. They'll gradually get launched within the course of the year, and we'll have to take it on from there in terms of creating...
What we are actually concentrating on is really to build a reasonably superior product, you know, that we are able to then create a pull in the market and have a traction and thereby have better customer adoptions. So that's the journey that we are on, actually, at the moment.
Got it. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. So couple of questions. Firstly, on the EV side of it, on the three-wheelers, you have a passenger offering, and so why not launch a cargo offering at the same time and be in that market as well? So what is the strategy there in terms of thought process? And similarly, on the same lines, let's see if you can, you have earlier highlighted that you'll launch further models in terms of carriages for trucks as well as in tractors, but what's the sort of timelines there as well? So if you can give some picture there.
See, I think, on the three-wheeler piece, you know, some of these, the vehicles that you mentioned will be on the plan, and we will get launched during the course of this year. That's the plan, and we are quite firm with the plan. Currently, a lot of these products are under homologation, under product reliability testing. So obviously, we are aware of the fact that we need to increase the range, and we will increase the range as far as the three-wheeler is concerned, including cargo, including e-rick and, you know, in these segments. In all the others, the plans have been made, for example, the small commercial vehicle, you know, the later part on August, September, we should see some traction there, and similarly for the tractor and similarly for another variant in the IPLT stable on the heavy commercial vehicle side.
With this, by the end of this year, we should be in a quite good position in terms of the product placement for the initial phase of the plan.
Okay. Okay. Understand, sir. So the second question is related to the Moshine and maybe the broader electronics, picture as you see it. So Moshine obviously gives you a small entry there. How fast can we ramp up, especially given the, news which was going around of, a couple of weeks back? But broadly, what is the strategy area there? Will you focus more on the manufacturing part of it? Will you look at assembly to start off with? What is the strategy, if you can outline that on the electronics for a part of business?
So Anupam, thanks for the question. As you rightly said, maybe we prefer a small entry into this business. We are further studying this opportunities in this area, and at appropriate time, we will share with you, and that's the area for focus for us going forward. As of now, this for more, the investment was for more from learning perspective, and we are studying this market as well.
Understand. And so one question is on the core business. So let's say core business CapEx, you have already the projects are on, but if you can just outline what is the CapEx plan for TI India, the standalone business for FY 25 and possibly FY 26, if you have that number?
We'll be investing close to INR 500 crore in this financial year for the core business.
Okay. Okay. And you said in TI CMPL, it would be INR 320 crore for the SEV plant and anything else, any large CapEx otherwise planned as well?
Basically, no, in three-wheeler, there will be another INR 72 crore kind of a spend. And in tractor, you know, we are looking at a INR 30 crore kind of a spend. So all put together, you know, for next year, the CapEx will be around INR 471 crores.
471. Okay. Okay. Okay, so that's all from my side. Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Varun Arora from B&K Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just want to ask on the mobility segment, how the things are panning out right now, and if you can give some outlook on that front?
Can you come up question again? Maybe your voice was not clear to me.
Yes, sir. Am I audible now?
Yes, perfect.
Sir, I'm asking about the mobility segment. So how the things are panning out right now? On quarter-on-quarter, it was a flat edge.
... So can we expect the, you know, pickup in the demand or, or, you know, the outlook will be positive further going forward in FY 25?
So, this business is going through tough phase as of now because of the market condition. Cycle market is not growing. We are focusing in this business also export area, which will be a little long drawn process. Also we are focusing on the e-bikes, in this business. So this is a work in progress. These are the growth area identified for the mobility business going forward.
Okay, sir. So again, on lens, I guess the last part is, already asked the question, but, there were some news were going on regarding the Apple. So any, development is going on, on that front? Because media actually, you know, on the newspaper, there were some news going on, like in April, mid of April. So if you can give some gist on that sir.
As of now, we are focused on the lens business, which basically goes in the camera module, and if any further opportunity comes, we will share with you at appropriate time.
Okay, sir. So last, just a clarification I need. By what timeline that electric tractor will be launched and, the commercial vehicle, the small commercial vehicle also, will be launched, sir?
We are looking at the end of Q2, beginning of Q3, really. Actually, that's when it will get launched, both.
For electric, for both, okay? For both.
There is a small commercial vehicle which will be launched sometime around July- August period. That's the period. And the first variant of the electric tractor will be launched sometime in the period of October- November of this year.
Okay. Thank you, sir. So, just last one. So on the, I guess the last on call, you had said that, by the FY 2024, you'll have the dealership around 75 number. So have you achieved that target or are we still on the, you know, on the way?
Currently, we are talking about the three-wheeler.
Three-wheeler electric. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Yeah. Currently, we are at 63 dealers against the 75. But by the end of this year, we should be above close to double of these numbers as we expand in the North and the East.
Okay, sir. Very nice. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Vipulkumar A. Shah from Sumangal Investment. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Would you repeat the CapEx numbers for TI Clean Mobility, and can you break down it for all individual products again, sir?
Yeah, yeah. See, if you look at, for next year, 2024, 2025, the total CapEx outflow would be INR 471 crores. If you see the breakup, three-wheeler will be INR 72 crores, tractor, INR 31 crores, and, you know, small commercial vehicle business, we'll be investing INR 478 crores. And in truck, medium, heavy commercial vehicle business, we will be investing around INR 71 crores. And, you know, there will be some marginal investments in them and in central, you know, R&D functions. So all put together, it'll be around INR 471 crores.
So what will be the nameplate capacities for each of the business, sir? Can you quantify it, sir?
Sir, capacities, as we said earlier also, there will be, for example, the three-wheeler plant will have a capacity of 25,000, you know, in terms of this. The small commercial vehicle plant that we are building will have a capacity, once we have completed the entire thing, the capacity will be around 50,000 vehicles. That will be... The tractor currently has a capacity of 25,000 numbers annually, right? And IPLT at the, once we add a line, we will have a capacity this year of around 4,500 numbers.
Last one, which, I didn't understand your last comment, sir.
Last comment was on IPLT. In IPLT, we are in the process of adding one more line. With that, the capacity this year will finally get to 4,500 numbers.
Okay. Okay, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rahil Shah from Crown Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning. So this co-investment in the core business of INR 500 crore for this year, you mentioned earlier. So what will be that for exactly, and how will it help us?
So it will be helping us building the capabilities in the engineering as well as metal formed division, which will be in terms of some money will go for capacity expansion, some money will go for capability enhancement.
Okay. And, have you already started spending, like, has the CapEx already started? And that's the figure for the FY 25, correct?
Most of this INR 500 crore will get spent in this financial year. However, some money will be work in progress, which should get spent by quarter one or quarter two of next year.
Okay. And on a consolidated level for the overall for the company, I believe you said, so you've been seeing tremendous growth and that should continue ahead as well. But when it comes to margins, what is the outlook there? Which businesses are you focusing on to improve those margins? EBITDA margins, so can you share a guidance or any directional outlook?
Ashish, sir, you will take this question or, generally, Mr. Vellayan said, we don't give the future guidance, as already said that.
What, what are you looking for on a console basis?
I just want to know on a consolidated level, if you can provide, if not an exact guidance, but a directional outlook, how will the margins improve, which businesses will lead to that? So how, where is your focus when it comes to improving margins?
So broadly, I think you understand the two largest contributors to consol right now are TI and CG, right? And both we have specific indications on what the margins are. And we continue to maintain that we maintain at least these levels of PBT margins, which are north of 13% for both businesses today. So that I do believe will broadly continue, and those are the two largest contributors. Now, obviously, when we take at a consol level, we will continue to have TI Clean Mobility being the largest negative contributor. And I think that will also continue for this year. And so you have to just kind of make your own kind of assumptions then based on those from that combination of things.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And,
Thank you.
Okay, yeah, that's it. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jinesh Gandhi from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. My question pertains to the electric truck business. So I believe we were looking to start deliveries from fourth quarter. So can you talk about how many trucks did we deliver, and how does the order book look like?
See, currently we have about 70 trucks on the road, you know, all so far. And the order book that we have is close to about 35-40, you know, which we are in the process of executing now in the month of, you know, May and June. That's where we are at. And we are working around with a number of customers, large customers, in terms of, you know, proving the concept actually, because this, we'll have to prove the concept, then we'll have to look at, you know, what, what the savings are, you know, demonstrate that. That's the kind of work that's going on, and we are quite hopeful of building traction in the coming months, because these results are coming out very favorable when you compare it with the current IC, because what they are deploying.
That's as far as IPL is concerned.
Okay, so would you say that, IPL Tech effectively, probably will get into, material ramp-up mode only, by end of this financial year or early next financial year, given that the process of, customer approvals and all those things will take at least another 6-9 months?
Part of the work is in the process. See, some of this is a new concept, so no one is even really sure, you know, if it clicks, it clicks in a big way. You know, it takes a little time. There's a diffusion time that it takes for people to absorb, to change some behavior, you know, in terms of adoption. The benefit is very clear. That's the good news. You know, now we'll have to get them on board in terms of; we're working around different models to see how, you know, the adoption can start happening. And once a few successful adoptions that we have start happening, there definitely will be others that will come into the picture. So that's where it is. We are hopeful of building up good volumes, but it's difficult to say at this moment what that will be.
Nor would I like to say that, but work on in terms of building the pipeline.
Got it. Got it. And lastly, when we talk of the EV business, we have talked about investing of roughly INR 3,000 crore into this business. And so far, if I see it, we have invested close to INR 1,900 crore. That's what this is for the EV business, referred to, if I knock off cash, then close to about INR 1,200 crore. So incrementally, balance, it takes beyond this INR 475 crore of this financial year, what it could be, going forward. I mean, is this plan of INR 3,000 crore investment, largely firm, or this will depend on how the business ramps up going forward?
... I think there will still be more development of, you know, vehicle development, so R&D will be there. And then obviously the build out of the business systems as well.
Okay. Okay, cool. Got it. Perfect. Okay, thanks, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of CA Garvit Goyal from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yes, sir, please go ahead with your question.
My question are answered.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nishit Jalan from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Largely on the three-wheeler electric vehicle industry-
... if you see, what we understand is that FAME was a very important part of the overall three-wheeler EV adoption. Now, that is under uncertainty, and, incentives are coming down. Do you think that without FAME incentives also, EV penetration can pick up in three-wheelers, or it will be slower than what, you would have thought, you would have thought earlier? And do we have the PLI benefit that we will get in three-wheeler business, or it's not there?
So, there's two parts to your question. The first part is, currently we don't have a PLI benefit as such in terms of this, you know, on the three-wheeler business. That's number one. Number two is, see, the FAME has already come down. You know, there are different component prices that are moving down, you know, primarily the battery. So that should go a long way in building, you know, giving some stability to the prices. That's the second piece. The third piece is, you know, the TCO portion, that means the benefit to the customer, what we are seeing, you know, is reasonably substantial, and we believe that from the, the experiences that we've got, there will be good traction. How much it will be, you know, in what way it will be, we'll have to see as things, things turn out.
You know, the success really will work around how you handle a combination of factors, the product, the range, you know, and the performance and the customer service, and so many other, other areas linked with, with the customer experience. That should help us to, you know, get through, with the numbers that we are doing. Temporarily, yes, there may be a setback to FAME, but FAME is not completely gone. It's got reduced now. And you know, once the elections are through, you know, I'm sure the government will work out some policies for some more time at least, till the EV adoption, you know, as per their plans that they have made, you know, it starts stabilizing.
Along with that, we have to bear in mind that, the charging infrastructure and many of these things are in active development, you know, and if this starts developing, you know, in a larger way, then that provides an opportunity for you to, you know, rightsize your battery and therefore your costs, and therefore a lot of that disadvantage one can obviate, actually.
Okay, okay. Thank you for the detailed answer. Just one follow-up. After FAME incentives got reduced, did you take price hikes or you basically absorbed it, given the reduction in battery prices and other cost reduction that you have talked about?
So we did take a price hike. We took, and industry also took. And part of that absorption we did take, you know, by ourselves for a certain period of time. But we are also in the plan of seeing, you know, in what way, you know, a bill of material we can shape up so that we don't have that effort beyond the first, this effect beyond the first half of this year.
Okay, thank you so much.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
No, Anupam, nothing specific from my end. Then back to you.
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.