I now hand the conference over to Mr. Saurabh Mashruwala, CFO and Executive Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you so much. Good evening to all of you, and thank you for joining Torrent Power Earnings Call for Q3 FY25. First, I will take you through the performance of the quarter, after which phone lines will be open for Q&A sessions. Next, I will present the performance for the company at PBT level first, and then we'll take you through the tax expense separately. Reported PBT for the quarter stood at INR 630 crores as compared with INR 513 crores in the corresponding quarter of last year, and increased about INR 117 crores, which is a growth of over 23% on a reported basis. PBT for the current quarter includes non-recurring credit of about INR 77 crores on account of sale of investment of cable businesses.
Adjusted for the above non-recurring item, adjusted PBT for the quarter stood at 553 crores as compared to 513 crores in the comparable quarter of last year, which is higher by 40 crores, a growth of over 8%. Business factors contributed to the performance are as follows. There are four factors which are impacting the performance. First, contribution from the thermal generation business increased by about 17 crores, mainly on account of higher contribution of the sale of merchant power and LNG by 37 crores. Cold weather condition compared to the corresponding quarter last year impacted the excess demand, which was higher by approximately 4% in the current quarter. The second item, non-cash adjustment on account of foreign exchange variation, is about 43 crores.
Second, contribution for distribution business improved by about 40 crores, mainly due to higher volumes, increase in ROE on capitalization of CapEx, as well as solar and other O&M incentives. Three, contribution from renewable generation, increased by about 18 crores on account of lower PLF, mainly from the existing wind power projects due to lower wind speed, and lower contribution from the capacity of 300 megawatt renewable plant commissioned during the quarter. Fourth, balance deviation is on account of other income, finance costs, and depreciation. This completes the explanation of the financial performance during the quarter. Moving on to the project updates. First, 300 megawatt solar project got fully commissioned during the quarter. The aggregate commissioned generation capacity of the company stood at 4.7 gigawatt as of 31st December 2024, comprising of 2.7 gigawatt gas-based project, 1.7 gigawatt renewable capacity, and 62 megawatt coal-based capacity.
Pipeline project at the end of the quarter includes three gigawatts of renewable energy projects, two gigawatts of pumped storage projects, two transmission projects at Kwara, as well as solar power. Further details on the pipeline project have been summarized in our latest investor presentation available on the website. Moving on to the new ventures, company's pilot project on green hydrogen blending with CNG in UP, one of the largest private sector blending projects in India, is commissioned and under trial runs. That's all for the quarter. Now I request the operator to open the line for Q&A session. Please stay safe and healthy. Thank you. And we go to the operator.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Again, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on the touch-tone phone. Our first question comes from Gaurav Birmiwal from Axis Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Can you just explain this other income increase? I'm sure you partly explained it in your opening remarks, but just my benefits from INR 53 crores last year to INR 170 crores this year. How do we explain this?
The other income went up from about INR 53 crores to INR 172 crores mainly because of two reasons. One is, as we explained, the one-time gain of cable sale of investment of cable division of about INR 77 crores is one of the contributors for the increase in other income. The balance is because of higher treasury income which we have booked during the course of the quarter.
Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Swathi Jhunjhunwala from JM Financial PMS. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks for taking my question. Sir, if I look at your segmental performance, your generation revenues have gone down 10%, but the EBIT has gone up 50%. So what is the reason for both the fall in revenue as well as fall in revenue? I can understand it could be because of lower PLF, but what was the reason for this higher EBIT that you have reported, if you could highlight?
With generation, renewable generation or thermal generation you are talking about?
Sir, the thermal generation, that is INR 1,400 crores in Q3 revenue.
1,400 crores in Q3, and as compared with the last quarter of INR 1,590 crores, that is what you are saying, right?
Right, right. That's right.
Yeah. So generation basically linked with my fuel prices, what fuel prices I have contracted based on that generation will come. But yes, in terms of MUs, it was lower, but my generation, there are two contributors, one is the merchant sale as well as LNG sale, which has improved the performance of the thermal generation business for the current quarter as compared with the last comparable quarter.
Understood. But sir, merchant sale, wouldn't it be lower? I'm assuming given that DGEN this time was at a similar PLF of 4%, which is minimal. So wouldn't merchant sale anyway be lower during the quarter?
But in SUGEN, we were able to sell not from SECI. We are selling merchant power from not only the DGEN also, but from the SUGEN also we are able to sell. So both have contributed the higher contribution EBIT, I would say, as compared to the last quarter. Both merchant sale as well as we are able to sell LNG also during the course of current quarter.
Understood. And can you highlight any reason why this EBIT is higher at 300 crores versus 228 crores in Q3 FY24?
So that is what I'm saying. It's a higher merchant sale as well as LNG sale. Plus, we also booked some foreign exchange gain also during the course of current quarter. These are the three reasons through which our thermal generation profit is EBIT is higher.
Understood. And sir, can you highlight the CapEx that you have done in nine months in generation versus T&D versus the renewables, if possible?
Yeah, so nine months CapEx, can I use the cumulative number of nine months or the quarter?
Sure. Nine months works, sir.
Nine months license distribution, we are able to incur CapEx about INR 915 crores. Franchisee is about INR 176 crores. Transmission CapEx is INR 138 crores. About INR 1,200 crores CapEx, INR 1,250 crores CapEx we have incurred in the license, franchise, as well as transmission business. For nine months.
Okay.
Nine months over.
What would be that for renewables? Any CapEx in renewables?
Renewable was about 1,300 crores for the nine-month number.
Understood. And sir, if you highlight any CapEx guidance for next year, what you're planning to do in license versus franchise versus transmission business?
Same CapEx guideline we maintain for the next year also, about INR 2,000 crores total for license as well as franchisee. Out of it, about INR 250 crores will be franchisee and about INR 1,750 crores for the license distribution business. That is what we maintain the same guideline for the next year also.
Sure. And renewable and transmission, any guidance for that, sir?
It's difficult for renewable and transmission, but as per the milestone of the project, CapEx will be incurred for the renewable as well as transmission project.
Sure. All right. Thanks. I'll come back in a few.
Thank you. The next question comes from Anuj Upadhyay from Investec. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Could you mention, apart from the merchant, we also did LNG trading? How much income we earned through that?
I'm not able to share the breakup, but these are the LNG sale, merchant, as well as some forex gain. These are the three contributors for the improvement of the generation profit, thermal generation profit.
Okay. So it wasn't a significant one.
Sorry?
It wasn't a significant one, and total was around INR 17 crores to the merchant and LNG and other all put together would be how much, sir?
So see, last quarter about INR 228 crores, this quarter about INR 300 crores, about 75% increase, 75 increase is there. This is mainly coming from these three factors, merchant and LNG, as well as some forex gain.
Okay, and any update on the Section 11 for gas-based stations, sir? Or exemption, how things are going to play out in the current fiscal?
The government has started working on it. They have started working on meeting the summer demand. They will hopefully come out with the guidelines about the crunch period demand as well as Section 11. It's too early to talk about it because we are in the month of February, starting February. They have started discussion with the various generators about the crunch period demand as well as Section 11. Both are based on the fuel costs available at that point of time. We are hoping the same kind of a scheme will be available for the summer period also.
Okay. Any pipeline of the project commissioning for 2026, 2027 would be helpful for us.
So Anuj, I think if you refer to our investor presentation, we have broadly given the commissioning timelines for all the projects for the renewable generation.
Okay. Fine. And lastly, on the PSP side, we had mentioned in the presentation that eight gigawatt of what we have signed. So these are all pump projects where we allow everything has been done.
8 gigawatt is not signed. 2 gigawatt is signed. 8 gigawatt site is available with us. We have identified the project. But out of it, 2 gigawatt PPA we have signed in the market.
PSP you are referring to?
Yes, PSP we are referring.
Got it. Got it.
LoA has been done over there?
LoA, we have received another facility agreement. Also we have signed for the 2 gigawatt with MSEDCL.
Great, sir. And lastly, for a small project, which is an RE power, which we intend to go ahead with for a merchant basis, just want to understand how the financial closure can happen on a merchant basis. Is it through the completely internal funding or we are also seeking some debt funding through external sources?
No, no. We will try to do 70-30 debt equity ratio funding. But it's a merchant project and market, the merchant market is very good. But even for the renewable project also, because so we will do the mix of debt and equity for this merchant project.
Okay. But there is no consent or restriction as such from the banking financial institution to lend even if the project is on a merchant basis?
I don't think so. Anuj, I think if you look at the consolidated balance sheet, we have a very strong consolidated balance sheet. Bankers typically look at various ways of comfort which a corporate can provide to lend for a particular project. So there are various ways and means to fund this. We can borrow in Torrent Power level and use it for this project, or we can borrow in the subsidiary itself by giving some comfort from the parent. So basically, bankers will look at some sort of security. You are right that since it's a merchant power, PPA is not there, bankers will have some apprehensions. But which can be mitigated through these avenues.
We'll provide the comfort from Torrent Power, and either we borrow directly in Torrent Power or we'll provide some comfort and do the funding. It's not a big challenge, I would say. It's not a challenge, I would say. It can be, and project profile is good. Merchant tariff is also good, so it should not be a problem in funding the project.
That's helpful, sir. And lastly, if you can show us an update on the parallel licensing or the upcoming opportunity in UP, any view from your side would be helpful, sir.
So UP government has started the process. So obviously, we are the key players in UP since we are present in Agra. So we are very keen to participate in the process. So we are awaiting the formal process to be launched by the UP government. So we have started the process.
Okay. That's it, sir. Thank you and wish you good luck.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. The first question is: is it possible to help us with the revenues that have been booked for Torrent Green Energy Limited for the nine months?
Torrent?
Green Energy? I think that's a new entity which you have formed, right?
So Mohit, as of now, Torrent Green Energy does not have any operations. We are in the process of transferring the businesses from Torrent Power to Torrent Green, which is yet to take effect. So as of now, there are no operations there.
Understood. Understood.
But if you look at the consolidated picture, consolidated picture numbers, segment-wise numbers we have given.
Understood.
In terms of generation and renewables also. So it won't change any numbers on the consolidated basis, whether it is a part of Torrent Power or Torrent Green.
Understood. The second question on the bhiwandi franchisee, you have mentioned that the V&D franchisee agreement is extendable up to five years. Is there any such option available in Agra?
Agra, no such option because it is up to 2030. Currently, it is available. So at appropriate time, we will initiate the discussion because if you look at the latest development in UP, the government is very keen to privatize the discom. So considering those factors and having strong presence in Agra, we'll discuss around 2030 for the further extension.
Understood. My last question on the PSP. Of course, you have won the PSP. I think it has been now five, six months. You've signed the PPA. Have you started the construction? If not, when are you looking to start the construction of the EPC contract?
In case of PSP project, generally one and a half years is required for the approval. You do your DPR and all those things. You mobilize the sites and everything. So for one and a half years, the construction activity will start. So currently, we are in the phase of getting approvals, getting DPR prepared, and being vetted by the Ministry of Environment and Forest. So those processes are going on right now.
What is the timeframe under the PPA to start supplying power?
It's a four-year period. It's after four years from the signing of the PPA. We have to start supplying the power.
Understood, sir.
Thank you,
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from Satyadeep Jain from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you. Just want to understand the use of proceeds from the QIP. If I look at the CapEx you've outlined for REF about INR 19,000 crores, when we look at distribution CapEx also that you mentioned in transmission, the annual CapEx, given the equity contribution, is typically 25%-30%. Seems to have enough internal cash to be able to fund this project. What is the intended use of funds for the QIP? That's the first question.
Sorry?
What's the intended use of funds from QIP?
As per the document, which we have filed, QIP document we have filed and submitted. So INR 3,500 crores QIP out with 25% for general corporate purpose and 75% for the prepayment of debt. Currently, we are prepaying the debt. And once we, and you know the internal approvals are there, once we need the money for the funding of this upcoming project of RE and PSP, we will raise the debt also at that point of time. Currently, we have used the QIP proceeds, 75% for the prepayment of the debt, and we have reduced the debt.
Just want to understand from capital allocation perspective, Torrent is already compared to a lot of other peers under the balance sheet was already well managed. And you look at equity contributions for future projects. If you put up more equity, it hurts the IRR. Are you looking at lower debt contribution in future projects in order to maybe have more safety cushion? Or the entire use you're saying is for 75% for repaying the existing debt you had?
So if you look at our project under pipeline, we have about 19,000 crores project, RE project under pipeline, which will be CapEx will incur over the next two- three years. Plus, we have a distribution CapEx every year. We generally spend about 2,000 crores, which is another 6,000 crores. But there are small transmission projects. There is a pumped storage project also. We signed the PPA also, about 12,000-13,000 CapEx is there. So our CapEx outgoing next four- five years, I would say, all put together, will be about 35,000-40,000 crores. So every year, generally, we generate about 2,000 crores free cash flows, which is available for funding the equity of 30% equity of the project. Apart from this QIP money, plus internal outgoing, we are able to fund these about 40,000 crores CapEx over the next four to five years period.
The QIP money will get invested in those upcoming projects.
You raised cash now, and the PSP will come (sorry, you're wrong) because you need to go through DPR and all this. So the outlay for PSP will not most likely start in the next one and a half, two years. So you've already raised the QIP money. Are you going to deploy it somewhere for the next one and a half, two years before PSP kicks in? Because your internal cash flows seem to be sufficient to meet your CapEx for the next two years at least.
So we have prepaid the debt from the QIP money. So we have reduced the debt. So once this project will start, once we deploy the money into this renewable project and pumped storage project, we start raising the money for the funding of this project. Currently, as of now, we have prepaid the debt from this QIP money.
The entire QIP, 75% of that you use to repay the existing debt on the balance sheet?
Yes.
Okay. And, sir, just want to understand on the long-term take-or-pay contract you have for LNG. I think last year, somewhere, you were looking at maybe contracting more cargoes versus what you have. What is some of these take-or-pay contracts that you signed? Are they coming up for expiry sometime? And are you looking to, I think last time you had mentioned you're looking to increase the quantum of those contracts. Is that still the thought process?
Yes. From now till 2027, every year, three cargoes we have contracted per year. And we currently are evaluating tying up the further cargoes. At appropriate time, we will do the tie-up. In fact, we have launched the tender in the month of August for the further tie-up of the cargoes. We are in the process of doing it at this moment.
No thought of increasing the quantum of take-or-pay, right? Whatever number of cargoes you have, the same cargoes you will have in future?
Satyadeep, I think what Saurabh told was that we are looking at tying up additional cargoes because if you remember, we did tie up cargoes for three years in the international market, which is getting over this year. So from next year, we don't have firm tie-up. We are looking at tying up for a longer period, a higher number of cargoes. So we would definitely want to tie up the cargoes as and when the opportunity is available to tie that up.
Okay. Just one quick question. On the hydro power merchant project, every quarter, this seems to be pushed out for the last several quarters. What is causing the delay? Is it something specific to this project that in terms of, because it seems to be based on internal cash flows and also what is causing the delay in this?
There is no delay, I would say. We are on track in terms of implementing the project.
If you look at the trajectory, every quarter, this gets pushed out by another quarter. There's nothing specific to this project?
I think we are working on, so I think last time, what we have said was it was likely by September 25. Now we are saying by December 25, so typically, what happens in such kind of projects is that what we put out is the entire project commissioning date. It will happen progressively, and since this does not have a PPA, any windmill or any solar module commission will start selling power, so this is pushed out by one quarter because of certain reasons in terms of certain connectivity and land-related issues, but that would be for a smaller part of it. When we put out this remark, it is for the entire project, so it does not mean that we will not do the project. The project will start getting commissioned not from the entirety by September 25. Progressively, it gets commissioned.
Okay. Thank you. And I wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from UTIMF. Please go ahead. Nikhil, sir, your line is unmuted. Please proceed with your question. Nikhil sir, if you have self-muted the line, please unmute and proceed with your question. As there is no response from the line of current participant, we'll move on to the next question. The next question comes from the line of Barani from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good evening. Am I audible?
Yes.
Okay. So I have a conceptual question wherein Agra already is in DVVNL, which is also now put up for privatization or at least that is what the government is working towards. Now, if someone other than Torrent wins this DVVNL bid, how will our operation in Agra work? Meaning, will it continue to be with us?
So, impact? How can we have an impact? Because we have a contract that we will end up by up to 2030. So by that time, there won't be an impact. So I think, Barani, we are a franchisee there. We are not a licensee there. What the UP government is thinking about is giving the license out. So anybody who wins that will become a licensee. So instead of DVVNL, anybody who wins that will become the licensee. So that contract will get shifted.
So the client will change for us, correct?
Correct. That's right. Yeah. Because it's a bilateral contract. It won't have impact up to 2030 till the contract is over.
So is there any, say, renewal clause in this contract for Agra?
We'll discuss at that point of time because Kezabna 2030 is about five years away, I would say. So we'll discuss at that point near to the contract expiry date in Agra, like what we did in the case of Bhiwandi.
Okay. Fine. My second question is on this thermal generation segment, EBITDA. So from merchant sales, what is the gain in this particular quarter, specifically?
As we said earlier in the call, we will not be able to provide the breakup of the merchant and the LNG sales. The INR 75 crores incremental contribution is coming from the three segments, three EBITDAs. One is the higher merchant sales contributions, higher LNG sale contributions, and some EBITDA for exchange also.
Okay, so from merchant sales, in the month of April, May, June, that is first quarter, we benefited due to Section 11, but now we will be selling in the open market. If I'm not wrong, correct?
Sorry? Can you please repeat again?
We'll be selling the merchant power in the open market.
Yes, yes. We are selling in the power exchange, I would say.
Yes, correct. So because the prices have come down, so we would be obviously targeting to sell only in the evening peak hours. Is that how it is, or?
Yes. We are targeting the peak hours sales, yes.
Evening peak hours. Okay.
Yes.
Understood. Understood. Okay, and what is this Forex gain related to?
So specifically, if you look at last year, Euro rate was higher. This year, it was lower. So it's basically gain which we have booked under some of the long-term O&M contracts, I would say.
O&M contracts, some third-party vendor is doing on that.
Yeah. So for our plants, there are O&M contracts which we have signed on a long-term basis. So on a quarterly basis, there is a provision which is made, but the payable is in euros. So if euro depreciates against rupee, there is an incremental outflow. And that's where it leads to a foreign currency loss on a provisional basis, on an accounting basis. That's not an actual cash outflow or inflow. And then if it depreciates, it becomes a gain. That's what it is.
Understood. Understood. Okay. That's it from my side all the way.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Uh-huh.
Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you for the joining of Torrent Power investor call. Everybody to remain safe and healthy. Thank you so much.
Thank you. On behalf of Torrent Power Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.