Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Prerna Halwasiya, Deputy Head Investor Relations and Company Secretary, Vedanta Limited. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you, Yashashri. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to our Quarter 4 and Year-End Earnings Call for FY24. On behalf of the entire Vedanta team, I would like to thank you for joining us today to discuss our financial results and business performance. The transcript and audio of this call will be made available on our website. The financial statements, press release, and presentation are already available on our website. Today, from our leadership team, we have with us Mr. Arun Misra, our Executive Director, Ajay Goel, our Chief Financial Officer, Ajay Agarwal, President Finance. We also have leaders from a couple of our key businesses: Mr. John Slaven, CEO Aluminium Business; Steve Moore, Deputy CEO Oil and Gas; and Hitesh Vaid, CFO, Cairn Oil and Gas. Please note that today's entire discussion will be covered by the cautionary statements on slide number two of the presentation.
We will start with an update on our operational and financial performance, and then we'll open the floor for Q&A. Now, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Arun Misra.
Thank you, Prerna. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining today's quarterly business performance update. Before sharing the quarterly performance, I would like to share that continuing on our ESG journey, Vedanta has been rated A- in CDP water rating and rated B in CDP climate change. Compare these to the industry average of rating of C, whereas Hindustan Zinc has been rated A- both in CDP water and CDP climate ratings. Also, along with Vedanta being ranked third and Hindustan Zinc being ranked first position in S&P Global Corporate Sustainability Assessment 2023, our Vedanta Aluminium has also been ranked first in S&P Global Corporate Sustainability Assessment 2023.
Moving on to Quarter 4 FY24 performance, we delivered a revenue of INR 34,937 crore, almost same as last quarter, with an EBITDA of INR 8,969 crore, up 3% quarter-on-quarter, while protecting our margins by significantly reducing our costs across all our business segments. Aluminium and Zinc continue to be among the lowest cost producers globally, consistently ranking in the first quartile and the first decile of the global cost curve, respectively. Moving on to the annual performance, we exited the year with second highest-ever annual revenue of INR 141,793 crore and EBITDA of INR 36,455 crore, with EBITDA margin of 30%, in spite of moderate commodity cycle, purely driven by total cost optimization to the tune of about INR 10,000 crore year-on-year. On operational performance, this financial year has been a remarkable year for Vedanta.
Aluminium business delivered highest-ever annual production of 2.37 million tons, with impressive cost reduction of 23% from the previous year. Hindustan Zinc has set a new benchmark as the world's third-largest silver producer, with an all-time high annual silver production of 746 tons. Zinc India also recorded highest-ever mine metal of 1.08 million tons and highest-ever refined metal of 1.03 million tons, with annual costs down 11% year-on-year. Iron Ore Karnataka has recorded highest-ever annual sales, which is up 19% year-on-year, also achieved highest-ever annual production at value-added business, up 19% year-on-year. At ESL Steel also, we achieved highest-ever annual crude steel production of 1.39 million tons, up 8% year-on-year, driven by de-bottlenecking and improved operational efficiency. Looking forward, Financial Year 2025 promises significant growth across the entire business portfolio.
In aluminum, we have already expanded the Lanjigarh refinery capacity to 3.5 million tons per annum, with the commissioning of Train 1 of 1.5 million tons per annum. We are on schedule to commission Train 2, which will add another 1.5 million tons per annum in Quarter 2 of FY25, with a full ramp-up anticipated by the end of this fiscal year. BALCO expansion to 1 million tons per annum is also making steady progress. This project positions us to achieve our targets of producing 90% value-added aluminum products and alloys, securing 100% captive aluminum and coal supplies, 3 million tons per annum of aluminum production with a strong margin of $1,000 per ton, generating an excess of $3 billion EBITDA.
In Zinc India, following successful commissioning of fumer plant and the mill revamping, we are geared to commission 160,000 tons per annum roaster plant in Quarter 3 of this fiscal year and 510,000 tons per annum fertilizer plant in Quarter 2 of next fiscal year. We have produced 700 tons of alloy from our Hindustan Zinc alloy plant and are ready to ramp up the capacity further. In Zinc International, which is one of the world's largest zinc deposits, is poised to deliver significant value.
Gamsberg Phase 2 expansion project is running in full swing and is expected to ramp up by Quarter 2 of Financial Year 2026. In Iron Ore, during the Quarter 4 Financial Year 2024 end, we operationalized the Bicholim Mine in Goa of 3,000,000 tons per annum capacity, making the commencement of the first mining operation in the Goa region in nearly six years.
Our target for next year is producing 12 million tons per annum of iron ore in our iron ore business, and the value-added business production is estimated at 1 million tons per annum. In ESL Steel, the expansion to 3.5 million tons per annum is on track for completion in Financial Year 2025. With the VAB expansion to 1 million tons per annum at IOB and ESL Steel together, we will be able to produce overall 4.5 million tons per annum of steel and pig iron in our facilities.
In oil and gas, moving forward with growth CapEx of $400 million in Financial Year 2025, we remain committed to drilling more infill wells, maximizing resource recovery, and discover more resources for future growth by focused development and exploration. In power, we are proud to have supplied one of the largest units of commercial power to our national grid.
Furthermore, synchronizing Unit 1 of 150 MW Meenakshi Power Plant, along with securing financing for Athena, takes us a step closer to delivering on our goal of supplying 5 GW of commercial power within the next two years. In this financial year, we will be fully commissioning Meenakshi Power Plant. In FACOR, we exited last financial year with a run rate of 110,000 tons per annum capacity, which will further ramp up the ferrochrome production to 150,000 tons per annum in Financial Year 2025.
In summary, FY25 is going to be a transformative year for Vedanta, with the completion of most of our growth projects. For this, we are allocating an estimated $1.9 billion of growth CapEx. This strategic investment reflects our determination to drive transformative growth for all our stakeholders. With a recent surge in commodity prices, particularly aluminum, zinc, and silver, we are going to unlock tremendous value.
Our low-cost and world-class assets across businesses, coupled with strong financial position and commitment to ESG, position us perfectly to capitalize this opportunity from rising demand and unlock exceptional growth for all our stakeholders. In conclusion, as we welcome the new financial year, we will carry forward the current momentum with the knowledge that each milestone we achieve is a stepping stone towards greater success. We believe that this is going to be our historically best-ever year in terms of volume, revenue, cost, and bottom line. We also believe, looking at the macroeconomic trends and analysts' consensus, the current northward movement of the commodity cycle will continue helping us in this effort.
This year will also be historical in terms of commissioning of many of our large projects, including the world's largest aluminium refinery in Lanjigarh, expansion at BALCO to 1 million tons per annum, expansion at ESL Steel to 3.5 million tons per annum, which not only impact favorably on our input costs but will also help us increase VAT percentage in a big way. Our transformative cost focus will continue that will optimize costs across all our portfolio by 10%-20%.
We continue to see an increase in demand, especially in the domestic market, in double digits across our portfolio, especially in aluminium, where the likely growth may cross 15%. We are uniquely positioned in this optimistic environment that our production and most of the consumption are in the same geography, that is India, which is recording the highest-ever growth among all emerging economies.
Across our portfolio, we will also add about 10% additional capacity by aggressive de-bottlenecking efforts and asset optimization. We have invited all of you to visit our marquee operation sites in Jharsuguda, SK Mines, and Barmer. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised to see our global best-quality assets. Our journey thus far has been remarkable, but the path ahead is even more promising. Together, we will continue to push the boundaries, redefine excellence, and create lasting value for all our stakeholders. Thank you, and over to my guests.
Thank you, Arun, and good evening, everyone. I'm very happy to provide an overview of our financials for the fourth quarter and for the full fiscal FY 2024. Capitalizing on our momentum from the last couple of quarters, our teams have achieved impressive financial performance, evidenced by highest-ever annual volume and substantial cost savings across our key businesses, which ultimately led to strong financial results. Speaking of the full year first, I'm very happy to share that we have delivered the second-ever highest annual revenue and EBITDA of INR 141,793 crores and INR 36,455 crores, respectively, despite a downward trend in pricing.
This delivery stems from volume augmentation and cost compression through structural changes. Furthermore, our EBITDA margin improved by 240 basis points to 30%, and ROC again by 240 basis points to 23% in comparison to FY 2023. For the fourth quarter, our singular focus was on operational excellence and cost management.
It has helped us deliver yet another good quarter. Three of the key highlights for the quarter are: our consol revenue remains steady quarter-on-quarter at INR 34,977 crores amidst lower aluminum and fluctuation in exchange rates. We achieved fourth-quarter EBITDA of INR 8,969 crores, marking a 3% increase quarter-on-quarter with a margin improvement of 75 basis points quarter-on-quarter. We also could generate robust free cash flow, free capex of INR 9,948 crores, with a substantial increase of 131% quarter-on-quarter. Our debt has reduced by INR 6,150 crores quarter-on-quarter. I will repeat, at Vedanta consol level, we deleveraged in the current quarter by INR 6,155 crores quarter-on-quarter. It also led to an improvement in net debt-to-EBITDA ratio from 1.7 in the previous quarter to 1.5 as of March and fourth quarter. Let me move to EBITDA bridge.
EBITDA increased by 3% quarter-over-quarter, majorly due to increased volumes stemming from enhanced operational efficiencies and cost reduction despite lower aluminum. Moving to debt bridge, in the fourth quarter, our net debt reduced by INR 6,155 crores from December 2023, reaching INR 56,388 crores, primarily driven by strong cash flows from operations and working capital release. In terms of the balance sheet, our commitment to a disciplined allocation of capital is evident from prioritizing, maintaining a robust balance sheet, sustaining a healthy payout ratio with good dividend yield.
As of March 2024, we held a healthy cash and cash equivalents amounting to INR 15,421 crores, which marks an increase of 21% quarter-over-quarter. I would like to highlight the significant progress our holding corp, VRL, has made in reducing its debt, having deleveraged by INR 1.6 billion during the last fiscal year.
Further, I also like to highlight that we have deleveraged VRL, our holding company, by INR 3.7 billion over the last two years, bringing down its debt at holding corp from INR 9.7 billion to INR 6 billion as of March 2024. As we usher into a new fiscal FY25, let me re-emphasize a few things. We are well positioned to sustain the current momentum, and this year will mark our historical peak in terms of volume, revenue, cost efficiency, and bottom line, which will be strongly benefited by the ongoing upward trajectory of the pricing cycle.
In FY24, we allocated INR 1.4 billion to gross CapEx, bringing several projects close to completion. Consequently, now we are allocating and committing INR 1.9 billion CapEx in FY25, which will not only positively impact our input costs but will also enable a substantial increase in realization to higher value per unit it.
Moreover, we foresee robust demand growth, particularly in the domestic market, with double digits across our key businesses. We have engaged with analysts and investors over the last few weeks. There has been significant inbound interest from marquee domestic and foreign investors. Over the last few months, our stock price has surged to a two-year high. I would like to reiterate that we are well on our path to meet delivery, deleveraging, and demerger as we are committed in FY25. Thank you. I hand over to Prerna for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands-free while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a first question from the line of Ashish Kejriwal from Nuvama Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Good evening, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity, and congratulations on the good set of numbers in this environment. A few questions just to get a sense of our status on different things, like our status on steel plant sales, where we are in the vertical split of the businesses, and especially in the coal blocks where we are. These are the three questions, and then I can go for some remaining whether that has picked up further or not. Thank you.
Hi. I don't know if you're here. So let me address the strategic sale of our steel plant asset. Yes, it is still under consideration. And of course, there are certain regulatory clearances which are yet pending, and we are very hopeful considering the advance that we have been able to make in the last quarter. In this quarter, the first quarter of this fiscal itself, all the regulatory clearances will be over. So then perhaps the transaction, if it were to happen, it could happen at that time.
At the outset, sir, what could be our outer limit in that?
I wouldn't say there's an outer limit. It is under consideration, and the moment it is anywhere between quarter one, quarter two, if the clearances are over and the buyers are ready, it should happen.
Sure. Sure. Thank you.
On the vertical split, I will ask Ajay Agarwal to brief Ajay.
Thanks, Arun. On the demerger part, Ashish, you would recall during our meeting as well, I have informed you that all the questions which were raised by both NSC and BSE have been appropriately resolved. The only thing which is pending now is to get the NOC from the lenders for us to file the application with the NCLT. That's step two in our milestone. I'm happy to let all of you know that on the lender's NOC as well, we have started to receive a few of the NOCs from the private lenders and from the PSUs. The discussions are on, and we are very confident to get a few of the NOCs by the end of this month, and the rest will also follow the start of the next month. I hope that answers the question, Ashish.
Sure. So we are maintaining our CY2024 and guidance of this vertical split of the businesses?
Absolutely. We are very strongly confident about achieving this milestone.
Sure. Thank you.
On the issue of coal mines for our aluminum sector, Jamkhani Coal Mines produced 2.1 million tons last year, and it's slated to produce more than 2.6 million tons in the coming fiscal year. Radhikapur Coal Block, it is likely to start in quarter four of the current fiscal year. Its environment clearance is in place. Forest clearance stage one has been obtained. Now, the compliances of stage one have been done. After that, the stage two clearance will be obtained. On the Kuraloi Mine, environment clearance is recommended. Forest clearance stage one is in progress, likely commissioning again quarter four of financial year 2025, that's current fiscal year. And Ghogharpalli allocation has been done. It's likely to come into line in financial year 2026, that's next fiscal year. Yeah?
Sure. Sure. Thank you so much. Sir, Ajay, this is for you. Are we still reiterating that our debt has peaked out in FY24, and all other ongoing expansion will be funded through internal accruals as well as the dividend payment to the dividend payment which can help in deleveraging balance debt?
No, absolutely. Ashish and [Davi], we made one more commitment that beyond the existing deleveraging of $3.7 billion, we will be further deleveraging by $3 billion over three years. And if you simply look at our guidance value and transport with the spot aluminum, EBITDA will be no less than $6.5 billion. So over the next three years, cumulatively, our EBITDA will be almost $20 billion+, and we've got the cash flow of $7 billion-$8 billion. That cash is sufficient to meet our need for the CapEx in India at the same time paying dividend. So both Vedanta Resources and Vedanta Limited will deleverage over the next three years.
Sure. Sure. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have a couple of questions. Can you please highlight the broad cash outflow, either for debt repayment or royalty payment due in the next three months and 12 months, both at Vedanta Limited level and the parent level?
Yeah, sure. So if I start, Indrajit, first with Vedanta Resources. And as you have seen beyond deleveraging, in the current fiscal, sometimes in January, we also went for debt restructuring. Hence, the need for money at Vedanta Resources in the current fiscal is about $1-$1.1 billion, out of which maybe a small portion, in fact, is required in the first quarter. It's about $620 million, including the interest cost. How do we plan to service that? As you know, the brand fee is payable in the first quarter contractually. It has been paid in line with the last year.
Now, dividend is a bold matter, but if I look at our historical numbers and pay even a smaller dividend, so net-net in the current fiscal for the Q1, a combination of the brand fee and a normalized dividend will be sufficient to meet the obligation at Vedanta Resources about $1-$1.1 billion. Speaking of Vedanta Limited, at Vedanta standalone, the maturity is about $1.5 billion, out of which a very small portion is in the first quarter. Most of the maturity at Vedanta Limited are fully secured. They have secured loans. Hence, refinancing is an option. Additionally, as I mentioned, with the current outlook of the pricing and our guidance on the volume and cost, at VDL, we'll have sufficient cash to manage any maturities. So net-net, in terms of CapEx and the maturities, will be managed mostly in-house.
No new debt needs to be released from the current levels.
So in your current interaction with lenders, is there any sharp difference between the current cost of borrowing versus what the refinancing cost would come through at Vedanta Limited level?
Given our size, Indrajit, and our historical engagement with the multiple lending cohorts, be it PSE bankers, be it Indian private bankers, or international bankers, we've got deep engagement, be it in India or, I think, across the world, in London. If you look at recent borrowings, I can point out one lending through PFC, so almost INR 4,000 crore for 11 years at about 10.5%. So all ongoing discussions, any refinancing will be done at a lower cost than the previous month. Not only deleveraging, including the cost of funding, will come down in the current fiscal.
Sure. My next question is on bauxite availability from OMC. Any progress on that? What is the status? Are we getting sufficient bauxite? What kind of timelines we can look at for that?
No, bauxite on OMC contract is in place. Aluminium, Sunil, your bauxite is in place. And our own Sijimali mine that we are going to start, that forest clearance stage one is due. Once stage one is done, then we will be getting the environmental clearance, and also we'll start our own bauxite mine. Further, maybe John, if you are there, anything you would like to add?
So Arun, thanks very much. We continue to get bauxite from OMC as per the agreed contract with them. It is producing at full approved capacity, and we are getting great materialization from the mine to the refinery so it's meeting a part of our full requirements. But as you mentioned, we're really looking forward to ramping up Sijimali in the second half of this year, which will enable us to avoid further procurement from some overseas bauxite.
Sure. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Thank you.[crosstalk]
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vikas Singh from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir, and thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I just wanted to understand that since we are demerging our business, a bulk of our debt is in this standalone business, while this standalone business's current EBITDA probably would not be sufficient enough. So in terms of debt redistribution, can you give us some insight on how this standalone debt would be redistributed among the other companies?
Let me ask my colleague, Ajay Agarwal, too.
Insofar as demerger regulations are concerned, it is quite sacrosanct to say that all the debt will get allocated across each of the demerged entities in the ratio of the assets in which the assets get allocated amongst the six different demerged entities. So there is very less leeway for any one of us to really play with it for it to be a tax-neutral demerger. So based on the regulation, we have apportioned the debts across the six entities, and based on this formula, we have gone to the lenders for the specific approval.
Understood, sir. Sir, second question pertains to our oil and gas business. While the realizations and volumes were lower, operating performance had been pretty good. So am I missing something because sequential also, there was a significant improvement?
No, what has been achieved is in spite of decline in production, the cost management has been very good. So the target of keeping the cost between $14-$15 per barrel has been achieved. Further, Steve, anything you would like to add?
Yeah. Just like to add, we've also really focused on keeping the production as high as possible and growing it in the fields where we have the highest margins. So although we've seen production fall in some areas, the areas where we make the biggest margins, we've actually seen production increases or very stable production. So that has helped the return on the production that we've been making.
Understood. Just one clarification. There are $3 billion debt repayment in Vedanta Resources which you're talking about. This is exclusive of the Zambian, basically, Konkola Copper Mine stake sale, right? If that happened, then it would be over and above that, or it's overall, basically?
So just to clarify the number I quoted for Vedanta Resources, that $1.1 billion requirement in the current fiscal, it is Vedanta Resources. There's no debt requirement for Konkola KCM, and any funding needed for KCM will be self-funded from the owner from the mines.
No, no, sir. Actually, my question is pertaining to that there was a lot of buzz in the media circle that we wanted to sell part of the stake in the mine. So the three-year plan of $3 billion debt repayment in Vedanta Resources cumulatively, does that number include your internal calculation of stake sale also, or that is over and above? This $3 billion is entirely from the internal repayment or dividend repayment from Vedanta Limited. That's what I want to understand.
Sure, Vikash. I understand. $3 billion is a purely organic cash flow. From the operating cash flow, we will be deleveraging VRL and the group over the next three years' time. Any action strategically will be incremental over these numbers.
Understood, sir. That's all from my side and all the rest of it, sir. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Raashi Chopra from Citi. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just coming back to the same question on the liability at Vedanta Resources, the 1.1 is long-term debt, right? The interest amount is separate over and above this?
That's correct. So almost $0.6 is interest. So $1.1 + $0.6, about circa $1.7 is a need at Vedanta Resources.
Okay. What about the ICL, the $450 million?
That is internal, actually. I mean, almost 417. So between Vedanta Limited and Vedanta Resources, net, it becomes a wash. So if VRL pays, they will, as scheduled in December, we get the cash flow at Vedanta Limited.
Sure. So that's still scheduled for December 2025, right?
That's right.
Okay. Secondly, the BALCO expansion, when is that scheduled for? Which quarter of this year?
The BALCO expansion, it's scheduled to be commissioned by the third quarter of this year.
Third quarter. All right. And lastly, what is the retained earnings at the moment at Vedanta, level?
At Vedanta, it is INR 1,500 crore. At Zinc, it is about INR 4,000 crore. So as on the 1st April, at the year's beginning, we as a group have INR 5,500 crore payables and receivables balances. I also like to point out, Raashi, to look at our EBITDA numbers. We don't guide in terms of EBITDA. But as I mentioned, if you simply transpose the spot elements without guidance on production and the cost, EBITDA will be no less than $6.5 billion. With that, almost $2.5 billion will be the FCF number. So net-net, $2.5-$3 billion will be the surplus in the current fiscal in case we are leaning towards the ceiling payment of dividend.
Got it. And this last question, sorry, on the transfer of the general reserves to the retained earnings at the Vedanta level, is there any movement there on the lenders' approvals?
It is where it was last time. Nothing significant I must point out. So nothing much on Vedanta side. But there is a progress in terms of Zinc discussion. And as you know, we are done through all steps, including approval shareholders. The second motion is also filed with the NCLT. The hearing was done on 18th of April. It has been postponed to 17th of May. And we hope this will get finished in the current quarter.
Got it. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thank you for the chance. First question, on the aluminium business, our volume guidance is very similar to this year. So we're not expecting any contribution from BALCO's expansion, is one clarification there. And secondly, our cost also is around $1,700 range, which is what we've achieved in 4Q. So directionally, can we say that large part of the commodity deflation is already factored in our cost?
Yeah. So the cost is something. We will continue the current drive. So the deflation is factored, but we will continue our current drive of cost reduction. And in quarter three, we had a cost of $1,854. And in quarter four, we reduced to $1,823. And in the guidance, we are talking about between 16-17. So maybe another $100 or $200 reduction in cost. Whereas if you look at the BALCO expansion likely to come in quarter three, first quarter will be stabilizing the new facilities and ramping up. So we expect, if it happens, so that increment will be over and above the guidance that we are giving.
Mr. Nevatia?
Yeah.
Does that answer your question?
Yeah, that answers my first question. Second, just want to reconfirm, when is our brand fees contract expiring, and when is it due for renewal?
The brand fee right now is a long-term agreement for 15 y ears. 2028 is expiring.
But the percentage, the rate is, I guess, to be decided every two or three years, right? So just want to know that expiry?
In the last revision of the last fiscal from 2%-3%, it was blocked for next six years. Hence, the next revision will be due only in 2028, 2029, unless the board wants to renew earlier.
Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay. So the board has the discretion to change the date, right, or prepone it or postpone it?
Correct. But right now, it is for next six years, starting the last fiscal. And in case the board wants to change earlier, they have the discretion.
Understood. And the ICL, which is outstanding, what is our sense on the timeline? Currently, I think December 2024 is the payout expected, but in the past, we've pushed it several times. So just want to understand how are we looking at this ICL coming in December 2024 expiry?
I mean, ICL has been getting paid on time. I think with the one board approval, only once it has been deferred by mutual agreement, the settlement is due in December, it'll get repaid on schedule.
Understood. And lastly, on the steel business, we are running a good utilization around 1.3-1.4 million tons volume. I mean, the margins have been quite poor. So I mean, is there an issue with the? I mean, what are the key reasons? I mean, our margins have been quite inferior versus the industry. So if you could just explain on that.
Sure. On the cost side, although it has been managed, the cost has come down. But our PGRM, which is a substantial portion of the output, did not fetch good NSR in the market. And that has squeezed the margin. However, that's why our DI plant expansion project that should get commissioned this time will add more value-added product and is likely to improve the margins going forward.
Understood. Any rough sense on what is our expectation, any broad range from the divestment of these assets?
I didn't get you. Divestment of?
Of the steel business.
The broad range of how much would be the price of it you are asking?
Yes, yes, yes.
I am afraid that I am not able to disclose just now.
Okay. But 1Q, this quarter end is where we are expecting to conclude.
So it should see. If we get the environmental clearance in quarter one, I'm sure that it will take some three to four months' time for transaction and all that. Maybe in quarter one end or quarter two, sometime in the middle.
Got it. Got it. All right. Thank you, and all the best, sir.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions. Sir, first, a very basic one. You indicated that the debt will be apportioned in the ratio of assets. Sir, why should it be in the ratio of assets? Why not on the basis of cash flows? How should we understand this?
Hi, Ajay. Are you there?
Yeah. Yeah, I'm there. So why this needs to be on the basis of asset? It is largely driven under the Income Tax Act, given the fact that it will be a tax-neutral demerger. For it to be a tax-neutral demerger, you have to allocate all the assets, sorry, all the liabilities, especially the bank loans and borrowings, based on the assets which are getting allocated across each of the businesses. But I take your point. Obviously, the lenders will also consider, when they get their NOC, whether the strong business, whether it has each of the businesses which is getting demerged, whether it has strong cash flow or not, for them to get comfortable in order to get the NOC.
So be rest assured, while the formula says that the debt will get allocated based on the assets being allocated across each of these businesses, each of these businesses will have strong cash flow as well for it to meet both the asset cover as well as the interest coverage ratio.
Right. Sir, you touched upon asset cover. So if hypothetically, it gets apportioned on the basis of asset, what is the debt-to-EBITDA ratio that one would possibly look at for each of the segments? Because if I do the math on the basis of asset, we are looking at debt-to-EBITDA potentially upwards of 5x. Is this something which is tenable, or will a lender be okay with it, or is something off in what I'm looking at?
Well, the asset which they consider at the moment is the historic value, the value which is standing in the balance sheet and not necessarily the realizable value. And when we submitted our proposal basis which we don't believe that the asset cover—sorry, the debt-to-EBITDA ratio will be around the 5. Most of the lenders are fairly comfortable with the numbers which we have proposed to them. It will be in the range in which we are today.
Some businesses maybe have the ability to take on larger debt, for example, power. And certain businesses, for example, the residual company which will be Vedanta standalone, which will house FACOR, Nicomet, and Hindustan Zinc, may also have a slightly higher debt, but it has the capacity to really service not only the debt, but it will have a larger asset base as well.
For example, Hindustan Zinc's entire equity will be in that company.
Sure. This is helpful. Sir, my second question was, so we have indicated $3 billion of repayment at the VRL level. Including the interest component of servicing over the three years, what will that number be? If I assume 13%-14%, it will be $5.5 billion. How should we look at this number, including ICL and the interest costs?
See, when we see the need of the money at VRL, it is about $1.6-$1.7, including interest in the current year, FY 25. This number, in fact, is far lesser in the year next. So net-net, when we are saying we'll be de-leveraging about $3 billion at Vedanta Resources, now, do the broad math. We are paying a brand fee, give and take about $0.4 billion every single year. That makes about $1.3-$1.35 for three-year time frame. And if we pay the normalized dividend, almost say $1.8-$2 billion, it will mean $3 billion of dividend at Vedanta Resources plus, give and take, $1.5 is a brand fee. Total cash organically between brand fee and dividend will be almost $4.5 billion. And if you reduce from there interest cost, still almost $3 billion is left for de-leveraging.
So combination of the brand fee, your routine dividend will be sufficient to meet the target of $3 billion de-leveraging over three years at Vedanta Resources.
This is helpful. Just last two bookkeeping questions. Have we got into hedges into any of the segments? Historically, we have done this. So are we taking any commodity call? Are we getting into any hedges?
Very much, Ritesh. In fact, risk management on the pricing is a continuous process. You're right. We hedged a couple of years ago, and it proved to be a good measure. We gained more than $500 million on the hedging part. Recently, we have begun to hedge knowing the pricing is moving upwards. We made a small beginning, almost 120 KT. Almost 5% volume for aluminum has been hedged. The average pricing is about $25-$50 per ton. Similarly, for the case of zinc, a small quantity, almost 30 KT, has been hedged in the current year, about 2-2.5% of the volumes, at average pricing of $28,500. We made a beginning, and we keep tracking it as the market progresses.
Now, I also like to point out, if you look at the forward curve for most pricing, it is showing all contango, which means everybody believes the pricing of all commodities will keep going northwards. And hence, hedge, not to hedge, will be a continuous process.
Sure. If you permit, just last question. I think a couple of quarters back, we had indicated a number of $7.5 billion of EBITDA. I think you said in the last presentation as well. Would it be possible for you to give a segmental breakup over here, aluminum, zinc, oil and gas, and power, the top four ones?
So, Ritesh, in our analyst meet, investor meet in mid of March, we indicated about $6 billion EBITDA for the current fiscal. That number was given almost 6 weeks ago. And thereafter, as you would agree, the pricing has taken a big northward trend. That should continue. And one can look at our guidance of volume and the cost. If you take a midpoint of that and transpose with the spot price, in that case, the EBITDA is about $6.3-$6.4 billion. And if you also look at the pricing uptick, one can reach towards $7 billion. That's the math. If you like, we can share with you offline the breakup by businesses. You can write to Prerna Agarwal, please.
Sure. This is helpful. Thank you so much. All the very best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Pallav Agarwal from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good evening, sir. So I had a question on the copper smelter impairment that we've taken. So we've only written off part of the total value. So the carrying value, I think, as per the notes to accounts, was something like INR 1,681 crores. But we've impaired only about INR 746 crores. So is the balance, are the balance assets, can they be sold or can they be used somewhere else?
Yes. As you know, the accounting needs to follow the conservative as a basic principle. Given the recent ruling, which you have gone for now, a review petition, from accounting viewpoint, we have taken an impairment charge. Now, there are three, four components. Land has not been revalued. So we keep the land at the original cost, which means in future, that can be only an upside. For the remainder assets, be it property, plant, equipment, inventory, and rest all, we have gone for the valuation by a third-party expert. In that case, the market value of those assets has been retained. The rest has been impaired. So in summary, Pallav, from impairment viewpoint to tinkering, there'll be no further downside in future irrespective of what the outcome is of that asset.
Sure. And also just on the steel business, so I think ESL has a captive iron ore mine. So I'm guessing the recent, I mean, the EBITDA loss would probably be because of coking coal prices. So with coking coal prices coming down, can this turn back into a positive EBITDA in the coming quarters?
Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, if the coking coal prices start coming down, and at the same time, the DI plant, pipe plant gets commissioned to be adding more NSR to the margins, to the products, then, of course, it will turn profitable. There is no reason why it should not.
Yes. So because, I mean, selling an asset at an attractive valuation, which is not.
No. No. See, that's a strategic call. The strategy is in Vedanta, we would like to be in business of metal where we are counted among the top three in that business, right? Whereas in steel, which has 3-million-ton capacity, you would be in the bottom three of the business. Now, would you like to be in a market which is such a small, or let somebody else who has a much larger capacity make best use of it? So that's a strategic call we have taken.
Okay. In terms of Zinc International, we have been probably behind the guidance in terms of production and cost. When can we actually start seeing a significant improvement over there?
Can you say? I didn't get you properly.
I think in terms of volume guidance and in terms of profitability.
On the Zinc International?
Yes, yes. On the Zinc International.
Oh. Okay. Okay. Okay. No, no. Currently, there was a timing gap in overburden removal and ore production. And so they missed targets for overburden removal for the last few quarters, which has resulted in lack of production from their front. Currently, they will continue at the current rate of about 33, 30-35 KT MIC in a quarter from first quarter, ending the year at about 65-70 KT 65 KT MIC. So this year, as we see, they're likely to produce between 160-180 KT of MIC.
Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you. That's it from me.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kunal Kothari from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Sir, can you please explain what led to the sharp decline in the working capital requirement?
One of the focus areas, Kunal, in the last six quarters has been in terms of managing the working capital. We have done multiple changes structurally soon. If you see, the fourth quarter alone, the number of working capital days has come down by almost 77 days, which is for Vedanta's historical best over all the years. So we could compress almost all the components. So in INR 2,700 crore lower working capital, almost INR 900 crore is the receivables, and the balance, INR 1,800 crore or plus, is from inventory. So it is the sale of inventory at the year-end and the lower returns. Net-net, over the last six quarters, our working capital is lower by more than INR 1 billion. So it is structural, and that will continue.
So largely, the reduction is coming from which segment? aluminum, zinc, or other segment? The contribution largely is from which segment?
It is across. For sure, aluminum has played a bigger role. But across the businesses, be it aluminum, oil, gas, and zinc as well, it is across.
Can we expect further reduction in working capital, or is it the optimal level that one can assume for FY25 going forward?
No. So from 75 days of sales, we have an internal target to take it to close to 65 days of sales. But yes, that will put a lot of pressure on operations and also seeing the logistics. But many of the shipments, they have a cycle time of 3 months to 6 months. So there are challenges in that. But we believe that although it is ever lowest, we can still go further down, and we'll continue to work in that direction.
Got it. And sir, second question. Largely, most of our CapEx is getting complete in FY25. Can you also spare your view on FY26, what CapEx that we are looking forward and further as well?
See, the way we work is while we will be commissioning all these past designed CapExes in this financial year, this financial year, we also see us going back to drawing board to look for further growth in all our businesses. Once that is done, the conceptual study is over, somewhere in H2 of this year, we'll be able to tell you that what will be the kind of CapEx outline we'll have to do for next financial year.
Okay. Sure. All the best, sir. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Amit Dixit from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good evening, everyone. And thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions from my side. If I look at slide 33, where you have given the waterfall chart for aluminum. Now, in cost of production, power cost has gone up despite e-auction prices going down significantly in the quarter. So I just wanted to understand whether it is the inventory effect, and if so, then the coal cost should go down significantly, actually, in Q1 FY25. Is it the correct assessment?
Yeah. John, would you like to comment on that?
Yes. Yes. Certainly. So in the quarter, we had two major overhaul events, which means that we are incurring higher costs for the maintenance events. And at the same time, we need to purchase power from third-party sources to supplement that. And that's higher than our internal generation costs. So those are the two big drivers for the increase quarter-over-quarter. In terms of our coal cost, the coal cost has continued to be around the same level quarter-over-quarter.
Can you please quantify the impact of these two outages on the coal cost this quarter?
Well, you'll see the number there. It's essentially $20 per ton.
Okay. Got it. The second question is on oil and gas division. So while in oil and gas, despite our efforts at horizontal polymer injection and all, we have seen that the natural decline has somehow caused production to go down. And our current guidance that we have given is 120-140 KBPD for this year, against 118 what we have achieved. So I mean, how do we intend to increase the production, whether it could be closer to 120? And for it to reach 140, what are the key enablers? If you can just shed some light on these so that we can keep a tab on these enablers as the year goes by.
Steve, would you like to comment on this?
Yes, sir. Yes. So the key focus areas for this year are the gradual switchover from polymer injection to surfactant injection. We're just this month or later on this month, the first batch of surfactant will arrive. The facilities are ready to go. We'll start to inject surfactant. The surfactant goes through the reservoir. We'll see the water cuts fall, and the oil production come up in Mangala. That's the first project. The second phase of this, we've just awarded the contract to build the plant. And we'll see that coming in towards the back end of early next financial year. We also have a batch of infill projects. This year has been largely looking back and making sure that we're planning to do the right activities, the activities that have the most impact for the dollars that we're spending.
So we haven't done a huge amount of drilling this year. We're going to really start to we've just retendered for rigs. We're bringing in some new additional rigs, increasing the number of drilling units and the number of wells. We've been looking at how to drill wells quicker and cheaper. We've retendered all of our drilling services contracts. And we're also starting to focus on a number of the discoveries that have been made from exploration over the last few years that have never been brought into production, largely with development techniques brought in from Americas.
We're also in the process of mobilizing because we've had a lull over the last two years of drilling offshore. So we're taking advantage of Saudi Arabia shedding some jackups. And we're going to bring either in one, two, or three, maybe even yeah, maybe even three jackups.
We've got a whole batch of wells to drill on the Cambay fields on the west coast, the Ravva field on the east coast. Plus, we're going to start to go after our DSF blocks on both coasts as well and the tie-backs to the main facility. So activities are ramping up. This will allow us to reverse the natural decline and see production start to increase. Following year, we'll see even bigger I should see even bigger increases, some of those longer-term development projects come to fruition.
Okay. Thanks a lot for the invaluable explanation. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
We have the next question from the line of Aditya Welekar from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on the recent run-up in prices we have witnessed in aluminum and zinc. Given the backdrop that the Fed may postpone its rate cuts and the dollar may strengthen, so what is driving this strength in prices? And do you think this is sustainable, the level of aluminum prices which we have seen recently at $2,600 per ton?
John, would you like to comment on the price remaining strong in the coming quarters?
What we are seeing in the quarter is an impact.
I'm sorry, sir. Your voice is not clear.
I'll try that again. What we are seeing in the current month and probably over the next couple of months is an impact of decisions taken by the U.S. and the U.K. to ban import of Russian metal. This is having an impact on the LME. The LME have imposed certain limitations on storing Russian metal in the LME warehouses and what metal can be taken out. So I think all the market participants are trying to understand how that will impact supply and demand and what we are seeing is elevated prices as a result of that.
So that's playing out over the short term. As we look medium and longer term, what we are seeing is sustained strong growth in demand for the metal and constraints in the ability to ramp up supply. So we maintain a positive medium to longer-term outlook.
I'm not sure whether we're going to maintain the current levels. And as I've mentioned, we are doing some initial hedging, but very small quantities because we do see contango in the market. We are expecting, as other market participants are, some continued strength in the market over the medium term.
Yeah. Thank you. And then next question, continuing on the cost of production in aluminum division. So we have a long-term target of $1,550 per ton on cost of production in aluminum.
And since, you have already touched base upon the guidance for FY25. So is it the least which we can achieve or to achieve the $1,550 per ton? It is contingent upon the operations of captive coal mines like Kuraloi and Radhikapur. So once they get operational, we will be able to get near the number of $1,550.
John, are you coming online?
I was going to answer, but I'm happy for you, Steve.
Oh, please. Please go ahead.
Okay. So obviously, the operation of our own coal mines will be probably the biggest driver of cost because we will be able to significantly reduce the cost of coal. But there are other drivers as well. As we operationalize the Sijimali bauxite mine, we will avoid having to purchase imported bauxite. And as we ramp up Lanjigarh refinery again, that will enable us to displace third-party purchase of alumina. And then the other major driver is as we move our overland logistics from road to rail that enables us to achieve further cost reduction. So it's that combination together with a whole range of operational performance improvement that will enable us to get that down.
Yeah. Understood. Thanks a lot. My last question is on power. So where are we with respect to the Meenakshi and Athena with respect to their commissioning?
The Meenakshi 150 MW is about to be commissioned. We are in the process. On Athena, the financing has all been taken care of. It should also come in line sometime in next financial year.
Okay. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Amit Lahoti from Emkay. Please go ahead.
Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. Some of my questions have already been answered. One on strategy around M&A. With BHP looking to acquire Anglo American and given that Vedanta was involved with Anglo American in the past, what are your thoughts around consolidation in the sector and maybe more specifically on how Vedanta sees this in terms of strategy for international assets?
No. So we are very focused on growing all our assets, primarily in domestic market in India at the center of our international assets, if you look at, which is in South Africa where our 30 million-ton reserve that we have. We need to grow that business. Currently, it is facing some challenges on overburden stripping, but we will continue that effort. KCM, when it comes into operation, then we will be able to talk about how big it can be as far as copper is concerned.
It is one of the best copper assets in the world. And we are very sure that that will be a huge addition to our overall VRL cum Vedanta performance. But we are not really worried about consolidation in this field because we are in the metals where there is hardly we are either number one or number two in the domestic market.
Internationally, either number one or number two or number three. Consolidation is not going to affect much.
Sure. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Prerna Halwasiya for closing comments. Over to you.
Thank you. Thank you all for taking out the time to join us today. I hope we were able to answer most of your questions. In case you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to me or my colleagues at the IR team. This concludes today's call. We look forward to reconnecting with you for the next quarter's earnings call. Thank you, everyone, and have a good day.
Thank you. On behalf of Vedanta Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.