Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Wonderla Holidays Limited Q2 FY25 results call hosted by ICICI Securities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Adhidev Chattopadhyay from ICICI Securities. Thank you and over to you.
Yeah, good evening, everyone. We are from ICICI Securities. I'd like to welcome everyone today on the Wonderla Holidays Limited Q2 FY25 results call. From the management, we have with us Mr. Arun Chittilappilly, the Managing Director, and Mr. Saji Louiz, the Chief Financial Officer. And I'd like to hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you. Thank you.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Arun Chittilappilly from Wonderla Holidays. I welcome all of you to discuss our Q2 and H1 FY25 earnings. I'm joined by our CFO, Mr. Saji, and our COO, Mr. Dheeran. I hope everyone had a chance to go through our results and review the presentation. This quarter was marked by some operational and environmental challenges that are typical of Q2 and have affected some of our performance. Unpredictable weather events and heavy rainfall and landslides, etc., don't bode well for our visitors. And turnout in several key locations were lower than expected. Despite the sales challenges, we managed to maintain decent performance through proper marketing interventions. Our footfall declined by 9% to 4.5 lakhs, leading to a 13% drop in income, which stood at INR 71.23 crores compared to Q2 FY24.
During the quarter, we also hosted a bunch of musical events, celebrations, themed occasions, etc., giving people more reasons to visit our park. We also hosted a standout event called Adipo lympics at our Kochi park during the quarter. As part of our continuous investment strategy, we also added multiple rides at our Hyderabad park at a cost of approximately INR 15 crores and was opened to the public by the Telugu superstar Naga Chaitanya. We are optimistic that these enhancements will positively improve the customer experience in the long run. Another major highlight for us in this quarter was the official launch of our park in Bhubaneswar by the Honorable Deputy Chief Minister of Odisha. This launch has extended our reach to Eastern India and enhanced our pan-India presence.
While the consumers demonstrated cautious discretionary spending, our strategy of increasing non-ticket revenue and focusing on high-value resources has helped to maintain our profitability. Our average revenue per user for the quarter reached INR 1,414 , and for the H1 of FY25, it stood at INR 1,597. Additionally, we could see some behavior in shift from offline to online bookings across all our parks compared to the same period as the last year, reflecting our ongoing efforts to strengthen our online engagement. I'm also pleased to share that the Chennai project construction is progressing well and expecting to be operational by the end of Q3 FY26. Beyond this, we are also continuously exploring new areas to expand our footprint into.
Aligned with our expansion plan, our board has approved fundraising through a qualified institutional placement or private placement up to INR 800 crore, supporting our projects for the next seven to eight years.
As we look into the future, we maintain a positive outlook for growth. We are confident that our ongoing investments in enhancing guest experiences, embracing innovation, and expanding our offerings will drive sustainable growth and strengthen our marketing position. We remain committed to delivering world-class experiences, adapting to evolving trends, and seizing new opportunities in India's expanding amusement park and entertainment industry. With this, I would like to conclude my remarks, and I hand over to our CFO, Saji, for detailed analysis of financial performance. Thank you.
Thank you, Arun. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here for Q2 and H1 FY25 earnings call. I am pleased to present a brief overview of our financial performance for the quarter. Our revenue from operations for Q2 FY25 stood at INR 67.4 crores as compared to INR 75.2 crores, reflecting a degrowth of 10% YOY. EBITDA, including other income for the quarter, stood at INR 2.8 crores, down by 90% YOY. EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 4%. The degrowth in EBITDA was about INR 24 crore, which is predominantly attributable to a reduction in our revenue by INR 8 crore, increase in our marketing spend by INR 6 crore, and expansion of employee base by adding approximately 210 people across location and corporate office, with an incremental wage bill of INR 5 crore.
Our adjusted EBITDA net of ESOP expenses of INR 1.98 crore for the quarter stood at INR 4.7 crore, down by 82% YOY. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 14.7 crore as compared to INR 13.5 crore, a growth of 9% YOY, and tax margin for the quarter stood at 21%. So moving on to half-year performance, our revenue from operations for the half-year FY25 stood at INR 240.3 crore as compared to INR 259.8 crore, reflecting a degrowth of 8% YOY basis. EBITDA, including other income for the quarter, stood at INR 98.7 crore, down by 34% YOY. EBITDA margins for the quarter stood at 40%.
The degrowth in EBITDA was about INR 50 crore, which is predominantly attributable to a reduction in our revenue by INR 19 crore, increase in our marketing spend by INR 11 crore, and expansion of employee base by adding approximately 210 people across location and corporate office, with an incremental wage bill of INR 10 crore. Our adjusted EBITDA net of ESOP expenses of INR 4.15 crore for the quarter stood at INR 106.5 crore, down by 39% YOY. Profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR 78 crore as compared to INR 98 crore, a degrowth of 20% YOY, and tax margins for the quarter stood at 31%. Now moving to park-wide footfalls. In Q2 FY25, our park or Bangalore Park received a footfall of 1.96 lakhs. Kochi Park received a footfall of 1.39 lakhs, Hyderabad 0.92 lakhs, and Bhubaneswar 0.24 lakhs.
In H1 FY25, the Bangalore recorded a footfall of INR 5.54 lakhs, Kochi with INR 4.14, Hyderabad with INR 3.91 lakhs, and then Bhubaneswar with INR 0.93 lakhs. With this, I will conclude my speech and open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue is unloaded. The first question comes from the line of Shivam from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are.
Yes.
Go ahead.
Thank you so much for taking my question, sir. So I have a couple of questions. First, regarding the fundraising. So since we are doing the fundraise, it is all from equity. So my concern is why we are not doing somewhat of that, somewhat of equity as we are from our internal accruals, we are generating INR 200 crore of cash. So why is this all equity?
No, we are not looking at all equity. We will be taking on debt also based on what we outlay in terms of our future plans. If we have to build two or three or four parks in the future, we have a total CapEX of roughly INR 1,500 crores-INR 2,000 crores, and we are proposing to raise only INR 500-INR 800 out of that through equity. The rest, there will be a combination of debt and then internal accrual.
So that's how we are planning it.
So, but sir, are you looking at all the asset-light model parks coming from?
Yes, yes, both asset light, but tier one cities obviously will do bigger investment, and sometimes it may not be asset light because it depends on what kind of land parcels we finally agree to work with.
Okay, sir. So these INR 800 crores we are raising for this. Because, sir, our asset-like model, our park costs around INR 200 crores. So in your four parks, we are like planning if we are raising this INR 800 crores.
No, I mean, if we have to build large parks, it's going to cost us one park will cost us between INR 700 to INR 800 crores, especially if you're in a city like Delhi or Bombay. So it depends on the kind of park that we finally build.
Okay, sir, so you are thinking like.
Indore or Mohali, we'll do something within under INR 200 crores.
Okay. So you mentioned that INR 800 crore, that will suffice for coming five to seven years.
Correct.
So that was my base question was for coming five to seven years, we will not going to raise anything from that for equity. So why we are diluting that much of equity? That's my base question was.
We have not decided the quantum of equity that we will dilute. It depends on what we get financially. We are still, I mean, it's still early days. We have not really decided the, I mean, it could be anywhere between INR 500 to INR 800 crores.
Okay. So it's not decided to INR 800 crores if we hold some equity on.
Yeah, yeah. And then the final numbers are not, it's not finalized.
One more second.
Sorry.
And then my second question from Saji, sir. Sir, there is one Direct Tax asset adjusted of INR 24 crore in this quarter. The detail around INR 24 crore. So what was that?
Your voice is breaking. I'm not hearing you properly.
Hello.
Sir, is my audio audible?
Sir, in financials, there is a INR 24 crore. Hello?
Please get the mic.
Oh, yes, you're telling me.
Yes, now you're audible.
Yeah. Sir, in financials, in this quarter financials, there is INR 24 crore direct tax adjustment there. So I just want to know the base of that.
Now, this is basically the deferred tax adjustment. So previously, we had recorded a deferred tax when we did a revaluation of our land. So now, after this current budget, there is a reduction in the capital gain tax from 20% to 2.5%. Accordingly, the deferred tax also reworked and then adjusted as on 30 September, which amounts to about some INR 24 crore.
Okay, understood, understood. Cool, sir. I'll come with the Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, we would like to remind our participants that you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Kumar from BestPals Research and Advisory LLP. Please go ahead.
Am I audible?
Yes.
Sir, hi, Arun. The first question is on because you are raising QIP, how many parks and the size of parks, like is it Noida, is it Mumbai or Madhya Pradesh because Gujarat, you have Punjab, you have gone and done MOU with Madhya Pradesh Tourism Board. So which parks, and in five years, let's say in your growth plan, minimum how many more parks apart from the, let's say if I conclude include Chennai and Bombay to be done by next year, how many new parks can I assume in the worst case will be there three parks or another five parks will be there in the next five years apart from these five? One time assuming that you do a.
It will be between three and five.
It will be large parks? It will be Noida kind of?
Excluding Chennai.
Excluding Chennai, it will be three to five parks, but it will be large parks or small parks like Indore or it will be Noida kind of park or both?
We are still, I mean, there definitely be big parks also. We are not doing only small parks. We will be doing big parks also.
But QIP will be.
Or Ahmedabad.
So yeah.
Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead, sir.
So that is what. I mean, I'm just telling the final, again, the exact numbers are not frozen because the project itself is not frozen yet, but once it's frozen, we'll definitely intimate all of you.
So QIP will be done, right? So this will be done.
Yeah, yeah.
So second question is normally in terms of the business model I'm talking about, continuous raising footfall seems to be a challenge, and you have introduced these events and these musical nights and all these things. So can you throw more light, let's say the last park is Hyderabad, which you have opened in the last four, five, six years, just pre-COVID, did it really meet your expectations or what? If there are challenges, what are the kind of challenges you are meeting to raise footfall?
We are getting almost 45% EBITDA margin from Hyderabad. If you exclude COVID years, Hyderabad is only five years old. So it's still not as mature as other two parks that we have. So it's still giving very good footfalls and revenues. So I think there is still growth possible from Hyderabad.
So if I can ask like this, okay, given another five, six years, what in your?
I mean, the rain and all that we can't predict. And obviously, anything to do with rain, floods, and or a heat wave and all that obviously will affect any kind of discretionary spending that people have to get out of the house, right?
Yes.
So that we can't predict, but the rest of it, I think we are more or less confident that it will work because it's already been proven in four cities. I mean, three cities, four cities we've just opened. I mean, so yeah, we are reasonably confident that it will work in all tier one and tier two cities.
I'm not talking about this quarter. In general, I just want, if I have to model, let's say Bangalore Park, which you think is enough, what kind of footfall growth you will aim in Bangalore over the next five years? Just on what factors do you think will drive footfalls across any given?
But I think you can expect low single-digit growth in Bangalore in percentage terms. And R2 growth, you can expect maybe 5% to 8% for your kind information. You can take it on the conservative.
But you are not seeing footfall growth to be a challenge over the long run in general, given our business?
If you look at our CAGR for the last 10 years, you will see it consistently keeps growing. Of course, there will be dips in between, but there will be bumps also.
So any timeline by which QIP will be done, Arunji?
Hopefully, before the end of this financial year.
Oh, financial year. Okay. Thanks, Arunji. Thanks for all the answers.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone phone. The next question is from the lineu of Sahil Bhura from [inadible] . Please go ahead.
Hi sir, good afternoon. You mentioned an increase in online bookings. What specific strategies have you implemented to enhance online engagement, and what results have you seen so far?
Hello?
Compared to last year, so you could see about some 48% to 50% of growth in online alone. Is it mainly because of various digital spending, digital marketing, other things we are doing through our marketing department?
Okay. Follow-up would be, besides ticket sales, what are your strategies for increasing non-ticket revenue, and what impact do you expect this to have on overall financial performance?
Non-ticket revenue, if you could see that about some 10% to 15% increase is in the current half year. And even the ARPU is also grown by 12% if you compare with the March number, March 2024 numbers. So which can have a positive impact overall on our ARPU over a period of time.
Okay, got it. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Krittika from Sharekhan by BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. A couple of questions from my end. First would be the demand during the festive season. So there are vacations, and during this time, how was the demand across the park? If you can help us on that.
Yeah, the vacation time was in the Q1 , I mean, April and May, so because of certain issues like El Niño and then the water problems, which we already indicated in our Q1 earnings call, so there is a lot of footfall in the month of April and then till mid of May, so things have improved post to that, and then now presently, the Q3 will be our school season or next group season, so we are just confident enough to perform well in Q3 as well, Q3, across all our parks.
Yes, sir. For the festive season, I meant during the Diwali season in this Q3 and so accordingly, how are you expecting EBITDA for the footfall? Specifically related to Diwali season, how was the footfall in the Diwali season?
It was good. Diwali season was good. Dussehra and Diwali, both the festival seasons were good.
Okay. All right. Now with respect to continuing on footfall, earlier we had mentioned that in 2026, we will see mature parks being footfall growth of around 5% to 6%. Do we still maintain that, or do we need to change any guidance?
That's what the regular practice is, if the mature park will give anywhere between 3% to 5% footfall growth, and then pricing rates of maybe equal to the inflation rate in the country. So that's what we follow on with respect to the mature park.
All right. All right. Okay. And with respect to the Odisha Park, so for the H1, I think we have done around 93 lakhs of footfall. So for the full year, what would be, how do we see that going towards the full year?
So we were expecting about three to four lakhs of footfall in the full year of operation. But we are a new entrant to this particular region. So we need to wait and see the impact by end of the season.
First year, it tends to be a little unpredictable, especially what usually happens is your peak seasons get very crowded, and your weak seasons will be very low crowded because we are still a new player. It's only been three months since we opened in Bhubaneswar. But overall, I think for the year, we should, like I said, like Saji said, we should close within three and four lakh visitors. Also, this is a new market for us, so there's a lot of learning that we also have to do in terms of marketing and sales promotion, things like that. So it takes a little bit of time.
But I think overall, I think we are okay. We know that there is demand, and we are kind of very definitely a new offering in that area, for sure. So I think that that gives us a lot of confidence that we can get the footfall that we want. And Q2 also has been pretty strong, so that also gives, in fact, it's better than what we expected. So I think we should be able to, in case footfall is low, we can always offer more discounts and get higher footfall. So those things we are working on. And I think after one year is over, we can give you a more correct picture because it's still too early to kind of give you a strong opinion on this. Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all our participants, if you wish to ask your questions, please press star and one on your touch-tone phone. And the next question comes from the line of Prolin Bharat Nandu from Edelweiss Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks, team, for giving me this opportunity. So a couple of questions, Arun, right? Now that the board has approved the QIP, just, I mean, if I'm not wrong, this is the first time which we will be raising equity fund, right, over our history in some sense, or maybe we must have done in the past, but not in the last six to seven years, at least. Exactly. So just wanted to understand that what is it that has pushed us to, in terms of growing the, I mean, pushing the growth pedal very hard this time around? Is it that the environment or the interaction that you have with states are a lot more conducive than they have been in the past?
Having said that, do you think that the future expansion will go more in a way your Odisha expansion has happened wherein there was a single window and state was very, very supportive versus Chennai where we had to probably get some regulatory compliance before we started expansion? So can you just help us?
Yeah. I would say that we'll be like a mix of both. We will work on a couple of projects where there is significant government support. But we will also have to work without that as well in some states because this varies between state to state. We are already in talks with multiple state governments. So we are hopeful that we can do one or two more projects like how we did in Odisha. But other locations, especially tier one cities, we will have to do in different fashions.
We will keep you updated whenever we sign something or when there is clarity on this.
Sure. But Arun, with the larger question, I mean, why QIP at this time, right? I mean, if you can, is it that we are seeing more spend, people more wanting to visit more and more parks, states being more conducive? So just a thought on that.
There is a lot of. See, last two years, honestly, we have done better than what we thought. With three parks, we did INR 500 crore revenue, right? So that gives us a lot of confidence that there is a lot of potential in the industry for us to grow, especially tier one. And tier two is also something that we are quite bullish about, especially after our experience in Odisha. If we are able to build a park in under 16 months for a full-fledged park, if we are able to do for less than INR 200 crore, I think that is a remarkable achievement. And we want to capitalize on those kind of opportunities because every year that we wait, the cost of building a small park or a big park just goes up by at least 5% to 10%. So that, I think, these are some of the factors.
I think this is the right time to kind of go a little more aggressive than what we have done in the past. It's both, I mean, both the government support and the fact that people are willing to spend more on this.
Sure.
So at this point, if you see the industry size as well, because if it is growing from INR 11,000 crore to about some INR 25,000 crore in next to four, five years as per some of the industry reports, so which is showing a key growth of about some 10% to 11%. So we also would like to participate and get a major share from that particular industry growth.
So point taken. Thank you for that. But Arun, just to double-click on this further, while Odisha was completed at a INR 200 crore cost in 16 months, but when you talk about a park which will cost you at around, let's say, INR 600 crore-INR 700 crore, and we are open to that as well, right, especially in tier one cities, that will take a fairly longer period of time. And if I look at your gross block, it's somewhere close to INR 1,100-INR 1,200 crore. So we are in a way adding 60% to 70% to our gross block in terms of our capital employed. So are we confident that we will be able to finish the park of larger size of around, let's say, INR 600-INR 700 crore in a, let's say, two and a half, three years' time?
I mean, is that a fair way to probably think about it? And tier one cities also, given that the higher real estate cost and a much larger CapEX required, that also have enough opportunities to open the park and get to our unit economics that we typically get in any new parks?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, tier one cities are more lucrative. Only thing is, obviously, the investment is going to be higher. So that is why we are raising money, right? I mean, to do smaller parks, like you said, we don't really need to raise money. We can manage it without that. But when we have to do a tier one city and then we have to do, we have to spend on building something and do multiple projects simultaneously, that is when we need funding. If we were to do one by one, I don't think we need to raise money. It's because we are doing back to back, and that is the reason why we are looking at it.
Understood. And this last point on the internal capacity, right? Correct me if I'm wrong. In the past call, you have mentioned that in terms of our capacity to work on multiple parks simultaneously, we can do it at around, we can build three plots at the same point of time, right? Is that correct? Is that how we have built capacity?
Yeah, yeah. Two to three, two we can easily do. Three also is possible, but we are still building that capability because we need a large team to work on each project. Each of our parks needs construction time of at least 18 months. It's a 50acre parcel of land. At least 1,000 people have to work on site every day for 18 months for it to complete. So these are large projects. So we also need a good team to handle it because the quality of construction and all that is also very, very crucial because safety is involved. Also, we have to make a lot of the rides ourselves. So a lot of complexities like that are involved. So that is why I think we need to look at a strong team as well. And we are working on that as well.
Understood. Can I ask one more question if that's fine?
Yeah, sure. Okay.
Yeah. So just on the demand slowdown, right, reduction in footfall, last quarter, you highlighted that there might be some weakness in this whole revenge kind of purchases or revenge kind of experience. This quarter, you specifically called out one-off kind of events, right, rainfall and all. So is it that probably from whatever you see in Diwali and Dussehra, we are back to our trajectory which we had seen in FY23 and FY24 in terms of footfall growth?
See, like I said, we had two years of blockbuster growth because of post-COVID exuberance or whatever you want to call it. So this year, I think people are kind of coming back to a new normal. And also, there are all these unpredictable weather events that are also happening. So because of that, I think we are seeing this footfall decline. This is normal, actually, in our business because if you look at our past history also, you'll see one or two years of growth, and then you'll see one or two years of like a flattish thing, and then it jumps. So it doesn't go linearly. But over a large, like two or three or four years, you will see a CAGR growth in footfalls and revenue, what we have done historically.
And we are not seeing anything that tells us that will not happen again because we are still seeing strong people who are coming there willing to spend, and they're spending more than what we think they will spend. So those are all good signs. And even in the new markets like Odisha, our ARPUs are, in fact, much closer to the big parks than what we thought. So these are all good signs. So we are still bullish on this, and it should be fine.
Great. That's it from my side. Thanks a lot and all the best, Arun.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments, please.
Hello.
Are you all able to?
Can you hear me?
Yes, yes.
Yeah. I just wanted to know why this allows for aggressiveness in terms of opening parks and hiring characters. Because you see, traditionally, over the last 10 years, you have been very conservative in terms of expansion in terms of parks. If you can explain that a little more, but then how do you see the next five years? Because what I gather from the call is that you.
Explain that. That is the last question.
So if it's a perfect.
We are looking to grow a little more aggressively than before because I think the market is conducive to that. There is a lot of demand for our kind of products. People are willing to spend more. ARPU's are higher. Governments are more ready to do this kind of investment. In fact, I think the new tourism policy, tourism itself is going to be part of industry, I think, from a Government of India standpoint, so I think getting approvals, all those things will get easier, we are getting easier, so I think it's a good time for us to invest.
So this would be a mix of debt and equity or equity in both?
I already answered this question. It will be a combination of equity, debt, and interest.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Parimal, to all the participants. Just if you wish to ask your questions, you may press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Shivam from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead. Mr. Shivam, you may go ahead with this.
Sir, I'm audible?
Audible.
So just a follow-up question. Since we have opened the Bhubaneswar Park right now, like one quarter back, and we are opening Chennai Park in 2026, and we are also looking at five parks in coming five years. So my question is on margin side that when the Bhubaneswar Park will go on a normal pace, the Chennai Park expense will come down. Then after that, Chennai Park will go on a normal pace, the Bhubaneswar Park expense will come down. So the margins wise, how we are seeing in the future?
Okay. Historically, if you see our margins, the EBITDA margins for the past 10 years and the trend, if you see, before this COVID, pent-up demand, it was about 40% EBITDA margins were there. And then post-COVID, because of the pent-up demand and then 40% growth in footfalls and all, so our margins also increased to about some 40%, 50%, 55%, which is quite normal. And then presently, we are building the team at a corporate office level as well to manage the parks. Earlier, we had only three parks. Now we have four parks. Now we are adding parks in each of these years. Then we need people also to manage the parks. So then we are just building the team at a corporate office level.
If you see our wage bill also, we have already recruited about some 130 people apart from the Bhubaneswar Park to manage the corporate level management of all the parks. That's why the margin thinking is happening. Apart from that, we spend about some three, three and a half crore for the Bhubaneswar Park launch. So whenever you are adding new parks, temporarily, there will be a change in the EBITDA margins, but over a period of time, it will stabilize within the historical trend. That's what we see.
Sir, that's what my question was. You mentioned that 40% to 45% we are doing in EBITDA, and the EBITDA margin will take a hit, as you said. But how long the temporary phase will be there? Because in coming five years, you will go on to open one park every year, and this will take time to normalize. But the expense will go on a charge expense upfront. So I'm asking the margin, what's your margin expectation for coming five years taking into account all the parks we are opening? We will go on to do the 40% to 45% margin also, that's all.
the corporate level, we already completed most of the recruitment. Apart from almost like 90%, we have already completed the recruitment and then the team-building activities and all. So now it's only a thing is like the year to add parks, and then only for the particular park, we need to add certain people. So it will not create so much of a problem, maybe from second and third year for a new park. So there could be some one or two points to engage from the average EBITDA margin we used to get in earlier days.
Okay. Understood. Thank you. That's all my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, please press star and one if you wish to ask your questions. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Kumar from BestPals Research and Advisory. Please go ahead.
Am I audible, sir?
Yes, you are.
Yes. Hi, Arun. Arun, are there any locations that you have zeroed in that we will definitely do Noida and Mumbai, or we will definitely do these two, and the last two, three can be different, or nothing like this? Everything is work in progress as of now.
We have zeroed in about four or five locations, like I said before. I think the exact order in which we will do it, we don't know yet because it depends on which approval comes first. I think we will share it with you whenever we have the details.
So I'm not asking about the order, but which it is like you will definitely go ahead?
Yes, yes.
So Noida is something that you will definitely go, Noida and Mumbai, or there's nothing like that? You are free?
Yeah. Noida and some of those locations, we are definitely keen to do.
Thanks, Arun. Thanks. All the best.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Abhinav, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are.
Sir, I want to know if there will be a re-evaluation of land going to be done before QIP?
No. No such plans.
Okay. So any reason that will increase the current valuation of the company, right?
No, that is not necessary to just build the value in our books of accounts. That we already did it at the time of transferring from the old Ind AS, from the Indian GAAP to the Ind AS time. So where we recorded about some INR 400 crores of revision in the land value. So we don't want to do that valuation as of now.
Okay. Thank you.
Does that answer your question, Mr. Abhinav?
Yeah, yeah. That answers my question.
Thank you.
Thank you.
A reminder to all our participants, if you wish to ask your questions, please press star and one. I repeat, if participants wishing to ask their questions, you may press star and one. The next question comes from the line of Neeraj Savai from Abakkus Asset Manager. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My question was on the land which is unutilized right now in the existing three parks. Are there any plans to utilize it in the next two, three years? And what would be the purpose? Would it be hotels? Would it be extension of amusement parks? Any thoughts on that?
The land is bought because it's a long-term view. Because later on, buying land once we start a project is almost impossible. Yes, we'll definitely use all this property. We have maybe between 30% to 40% of land unutilized in most of our projects. Not all. Some of them have more. So yeah, we want to keep it like that, and because later on, buying the land becomes almost impossible.
Two of the parks have been more than 10 years old. Anything which you have thought about the extension of amusement parks in the next two, three years, or you will wait for the next one?
They are expanding. Actually, not only all of our parks are expanding right now.
Okay, so no plans to build any hotels or anything different from what we are doing right now?
If there is something, we will definitely keep you posted. Right now, we are just looking at geographical expansion.
And another question was on this, what you had indicated previously, that whatever expansion we do in the future is going to be with the state government and long-term lease, and we would not be buying land. So this holds for the expansion which we have highlighted, Mumbai or Noida or Indore. Would that continue, or is there any change in that?
Yeah, yeah. It continues. Continues.
So INR 1,500 crore-INR2,000 crore CapEX will be all on long-term leases of land and doesn't include any land cost?
Yeah. As of now, we are not looking at them. Wherever possible, we will not buy land. But if land is available and it's, I mean, we are not averse to buying land because if the lease rental and the cost of land is similar, we might as well buy it. Depends on either the state to state, it varies. So it's hard to predict that. But wherever possible, we would like to keep the CapEX low and do the lease.
All right. Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Hiten from Minerva Assets. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are.
Yeah. I have a question, and I apologize if it's a repetition because I joined slightly late. But it's more of a bookkeeping question. Can you please, if possible, explain the deferred tax credit that we took this time? Has there been any offloading of assets since the policy has changed?
No, there is no policy change. When we did the re-evaluation of the land, when we migrated from the Indian GAAP to Ind AS, we recognized the deferred tax and then kept it in our books, which was about, I think, some INR 70 crores-INR 75 crores, which was sitting in our balance sheet if you could observe it, and then presently, after this budget, the capital gain tax rate shifted from 20% to 2.5% without indexation. So this has been created as a deferred tax for getting a future tax benefit when you sell the land. That is an assumption until the deferred tax is worked out. Now, presently, the tax rate has changed. So automatically, the benefit what you get when you sell the land automatically will come down accordingly. It has been re-valued. So there is a INR 24 crore downward revision in the particular position.
So from INR 70 crore-INR 75 crores to reach up to some INR 50 crore or so. So that's why that has come as a benefit in our P&L account.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We would like to remind the participants, if you wish to ask your question, you may press star and one. Next question comes from the line of Prolin Bharat Nandu from Edelweiss Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks again for giving me this opportunity. Two more questions from my side. Arun, so in future expansion, how do we think about a park with and without resort, right? I mean, does a park with resort help us gaining more footfall because then it becomes like more of a destination kind of a thing? What is our thought process on expansion of parks and a resort accompanying it?
All the large parks that we do, obviously, we can do. Even the small parks, even in Bhubaneswar, actually, we can do a resort. It depends on the footfalls and the kind of demand that we see. I think every park is different, I think. But we are definitely thinking about building a resort as part of the park experience as well. In fact, every time we design a park, we always leave space for a resort. So I think definitely it's part of our plan for most of our projects.
Okay. But are you suggesting that now we will probably build a resort at the same time when we build a park, or you will still want that option?
No. We will wait for the park to mature a little bit and then build a resort. We will not do it in the beginning.
Sure. Understood. And are we still averse to, I mean, buying a park or buying any other asset which is available, or have we changed our view there?
If there is a good asset available at a decent valuation, we will do it. But our parks are unique, so we don't find that nobody else builds parks like the way we build. So very difficult to you end up paying a lot more for something, and it's not something that we want. I mean, you pay a fair market rate and all those things, and it doesn't really financially, it doesn't make sense. If it makes sense, of course, we'll be looking to that.
But have you evaluated anything, any of the transactions which have happened in the last couple of years where some of our competitors have probably bought, and have you evaluated and passed on?
And we have actually said no to most of it.
Okay. Fine. Okay, Arun. And last point would be on non-ticket revenue, right? In the past, you have highlighted some of the ways in which you want to increase that, right? So in terms of the optimal mix, right, between ticket revenue and non-ticket revenue, where are we and where can we go over, let's say, three- to five-year period time?
So we are at some 75-25 ratio between ticket and non-ticket revenue. So our aim is to make it about some 60-40 in the long run.
Right. And can you give us a few drivers as to what will take it there? I mean, what is it that we can do to increase 25% to 40%?
So, two things are there. In non-ticket revenue, we have the F&B plus the merchandise. So, what we need to the offerings, we need to always review on a regular basis and to provide the more branded items and then the variety, the choice we need to give to all the guests. That is with respect to the merch. And then with respect to our F&B things, we need to keep developing new curated, new menus, and offerings should be diversified across the parks, which will help us to stay abreast, and then people will be spending more on the non-ticket revenue. And another method is like that, tying it up with the park entry ticket so that we can just sell more, and then people also get the value for money while they're visiting the parks.
Sure. Very clear. Thank you. That's it from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. If there are no further questions from participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to management from Wonderla Holidays Limited for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thanks for joining our Q2 FY25 conference call. We hope to continue our performance and expand our footprint to new locations. So these are some of the core strategies that we are working on. We hope to see you in the next conference call. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.