Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Wonderla Holidays Limited Q3 and FY25 earnings conference call, hosted by Ambit Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Khanna from Ambit Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Khanna.
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Ambit Capital, I would like to welcome you all to Q3 and nine-month FY25 earnings call for Wonderla Holidays Limited. From the management, we have with us Mr. Arun Chittilappilly, Managing Director, Mr. Saji Louiz, CFO, and Mr. Dheeran Choudhary, Chief Operating Officer of the company. We would like to now begin the call with opening remarks from the management, following which we will have the forum open for an interactive question-and-answer session. Thank you, and over to you, Arun and Saji.
Thank you, Karan. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Arun, Managing Chairman and Managing Director of Wonderla Holidays. We are happy to present the Q3 and nine-month FY25 financial results. We have, first of all, pleased to announce the successful completion of our recent fundraise through a QIP process, which generated significant interest and support from market investors. We appreciate the trust and confidence shown by the investor community in our growth strategy and long-term vision. This quarter was encouraging but also challenging for Wonderla, signaling some recovery that we've seen, especially in our Hyderabad Park. We have seen the best-ever Q3 for Hyderabad since about eight years of operation. Revenue for the quarter was INR 121.5 crore, a degrowth of 2% compared to the previous year. The dip in revenues was mainly due to lower turnout in some of the key locations like Bhubaneswar and Cochin.
Our footfall for the quarter stood at 9.18 lakhs. In terms of strategic initiatives, we made significant strides across several key areas. We are on a digital transformation path, and recently, our website has been revamped, and we are also in the process of doing many other initiatives, including ticket booking and POS. This initiative blends for both in-park and digital engagement. So we've also relaunched our mascot, Chikku, with a new attraction in our Kochi Park. Also, it will be rolled out to other parks. We also hosted some vibrant events such as Wonder Carnival in Bhubaneswar, Halloween in Bangalore, and festive celebrations like Christmas and New Year. These events, combined with special promotions, have played a key role in maintaining the footfall and enhancing overall guest experience.
Additionally, we continue to see a rise in online bookings, particularly across our established parks like Kochi, Bangalore, and Hyderabad, reflecting our successful efforts to adapt to shifting customer preferences and expand our online presence. With our continued focus on growing non-ticket revenue, our customer spend per head has grown by 9% and 12% for Q3 and nine months, respectively. On the expansion front, we are excited to share that our Chennai Park has slated to begin operations towards the end of the next financial year, most likely will be open for commercial operations from December. The extension of our resort at Bangalore is also proceeding in the right direction, and we expect to launch this by the beginning of next financial year. All other sustaining CAPEX activities across the parks are progressing as per schedule.
We are excited by the tremendous opportunity that lies ahead to broaden our park portfolio and strengthen our position in the industry. Our outlook for growth is positive, especially long-term, and we are confident of the industry growth, especially in India, which has a young population, etc. With that, I would like to conclude my remarks and hand over to Saji, our CFO, for a detailed financial analysis.
Thank you, Arun. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining the earnings call for Q3 and nine-month period ended FY25. I'm happy to provide a comprehensive overview of financial performance for the quarter. Revenues for the quarter stood at INR 121.5 crore compared to INR 123.6 crore in the same period last year, reflecting a year-on-year minor degrowth of 1.7%. Our EBITDA, including other income for the quarter, was INR 42.2 crore, down by 30.3% on a year-on-year basis. EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 33.3%. Additionally, our profit after tax for the quarter amounted to INR 20.3 crore, representing a degrowth of 45.7% compared to the previous year. PAT margins for the quarter stood at 16.1%. Moving to the nine-month financial performance, our turnover or revenue reached INR 361.8 crore, down by 5.6% on a YOY basis.
EBITDA, including other income for the nine months, stood at INR 140.9 crore, down by 32.8% on a YOY basis. EBITDA margins stood at 37.5%. The profit after tax stood at INR 98.3 crore, and the margins are at 26.2% for the nine months ended FY25. In terms of our average revenue per user, our Q3 FY25 stood at 1,272, and for the nine months, it stood at 1,472. Now, moving on to our footfall metrics for our parks, for the quarter, our Bangalore Park recorded a footfall of 2.99 lakhs. Kochi Park welcomed about some 2.57 lakh visitors. Hyderabad Park achieved a footfall of 3.28 lakhs, and then the newly launched Bhubaneswar Park recorded a quarterly footfall of about 34,000. For the nine-month period, Bangalore at 8.54 lakhs, Kochi at 6.7 lakhs, Hyderabad at 7.19, and then Bhubaneswar at 1.28 lakhs of visitors.
Our average room rent at our Wonderla Resort for the nine-month period stood at INR 5,770, while occupancy stood at 52%. With that, I would like to conclude my remarks and open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you for your attention and the continued support.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets only while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have our first question from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from Bugle Rock Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon. Can you give some idea why the Q3 numbers were footfall was significantly bad for Bangalore and Kochi? And generally, Q3 is the 30% of the footfalls in a year. So some thoughts on that. And because in the last conference call, we stated that Diwali and Dussehra have been very good. So what happened in December? Some thoughts on that will be helpful.
Yeah, hi. This is Dheeran here. So what happened in Bangalore was we had a great Dussehra, but it's the second half, which is also a critical part in October. There was the sudden unexpected monsoon. In fact, you would have read news about Bangalore being under the flood. So it kind of derailed our entire revenue for two weeks, which kind of caused the dip. And in Kochi, we saw good growth in our retail footfall, but this was a big year for groups. And unfortunately, due to certain health concerns, there was this whole meningitis issue that was playing in Kochi. A lot of school groups refrained from coming this year to the park. So that's why Kochi dipped. And Kochi also had the Kerala area also sent some groups closer to the Bangalore Park.
So these were the two large challenges and concerns that caused the dip in Kochi and Bangalore.
Okay. And one thing, in Bhubaneswar, last quarter, we were at 93,000 footfall, okay? And Q3, again, which was a festival, it fell down to 35,000 footfalls. And we are expecting that to do 3 to 4 lakh footfall in first year. And we also stated that if we are seeing that footfalls are low, we can offer discounts and have good footfalls as our pool is still better than what we were expecting. So can you throw some light on what are the situation or what happened in Bhubaneswar, means?
I think the numbers are not correct. Overall, for the first half of the year, it was 93,000. But last quarter, we had roughly about quarter two had 20-22,000 footfall. So we actually, in quarter three versus quarter two, grew our footfall by 50% quarter on quarter basis.
Yeah, but the issue, I think, I mean, weather is one of the issues we had. We had two cyclone events there. And also, I think because it's the first year and we don't I mean, we are new in the category in actually Bhubaneswar. Most of the water parks that are existing in that area, they are operational mostly during summer only. And so the whole idea of going out to an amusement park during a winter season doesn't exist there. So we had to create the category. So I think these are the two issues that we faced in Bhubaneswar. Mostly, we had inclement weather like during Christmas also, which would have been a nice season for us. There was a cyclone in Bhubaneswar, if you recall. So I think those are the two issues.
I think going forward, especially from March onwards, I think we should be able to see good footfalls in Bhubaneswar.
Okay. Because in Hyderabad also, when we launched in first year, we were expecting we did around 6 lakhs plus footfall. And here, even it seems 2 lakhs would be a.
Yeah, this year, but we didn't have the whole year in Bhubaneswar. I think the majority of the summer was already over by the time we opened. So it's not really an ideal time. We just got like one month, I think, no? For summer.
Summer.
So I think summer is the main season in Bhubaneswar. So March, April, May, June seems to be the biggest footfall driving months in Bhubaneswar. And we missed most of it. We only got June. And then we opened, I think, on May 25th, if I'm not mistaken. So I think going forward, I think we'll get that. But I think Q3 also, there is a chance for us to get good footfall, but I think we will have to now this Q3, we couldn't get because there was a lot of warnings and cyclone warnings and all that. And so when that happens, especially in Odisha, they are prone to cyclones. People don't go out. So I think that's the main issue. I think we should be able to get back that in the next year.
Any lessons to learn from this market on nine months since what we have operated? For smaller theme parks like Bhubaneswar, we would like to build a park in 200 crore plus. So what has been the experience? And you think the business model makes still sense?
See, we still haven't finished one year. It's only been officially; the park was opened in September, and we had a soft launch phase from June to September. So I mean, technically, we are open only. I mean, officially open from September onwards because the park itself was not fully complete. So I think this financial year. I mean, next financial year, if you ask me, that is when we'll have a full idea of it. So I would say that it is. I mean, I'm too early to say anything. We are still bullish on the market because if you look at our pools and spends and all that are very high. So that gives us a lot of confidence that there is. And also, if you, I don't know whether you remember, but when we opened, the first 40 days were extremely crowded.
In fact, we had to return a lot of people, and we couldn't accommodate all the people that came to the park. So definitely, there is scope to do this, but I think it's highly seasonal in that market. So we need to work accordingly. So so far, that's the learning. The potential is there, but I think it's also a highly seasonal market. And that tends to happen in a new park, especially in a place like Bhubaneswar where there are no existing amusement parks. So I think you can expect that.
And one last question. Any progress on new projects or where are we stuck up with new projects? Now we have capital.
We are with the government. So I mean, it's in the government's table. So we are waiting for some kind of closure on the deal. I think we should be able to announce something soon. We will keep you updated. Nothing has changed from our side. We are still, as far as we are concerned, we are going ahead. But I think, of course, we are focusing mostly to kind of finish our Chennai project now. But I think we will announce one. At least we should be able to announce one more location soon. We will keep you posted.
Okay. Thanks. I'll join back in a few.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Naman Shah from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Just one question from my side. Just wanted to understand on what are we doing to kind of increase our revenue and footfalls in existing parks? Because there, we are kind of seeing a lot of decline. So are we doing any incremental CAPEX or to kind of enhance our experience in the existing parks?
Yeah, yeah. So we are doing a lot of incremental CapEx, especially in the older parks like Kochi and Bangalore. We are opening a new attraction. We have just opened a new attraction in Kochi end of December, which is our Adventures of Chikku, right? And that will be rolled out to Bangalore and Hyderabad as well. I think it will be done as we speak. Then we are also launching a large attraction in Bangalore, a virtual attraction, which is already there in Hyderabad, but it's not there in the other parks. So and then also, we are probably adding some big rides to Bangalore and Kochi as well going forward because they are all much older parks. But we have also incrementally done CapEx, and we are also looking at adding some new restaurants to our older parks. So these things are happening.
but the issue what has happened in the last quarter has nothing to do with that. I think we already the main issue was inclement weather and some group footfall that got diverted. I mean, we didn't get the group footfalls in Kochi. So these are the two main issues. But if you look at our general footfalls, they have been growing. So I think that gives us confidence that once the season kind of stabilizes, it should be fine. And Q4 anyway is not a very big quarter for us in terms of footfall. So far, I think we are flattish. Like I said, we are not expecting growth in this year. But going into the next financial year, we can definitely see growth, and that's how we are looking at it.
Okay, okay. And what led to such a, I mean, the footfalls in Hyderabad have been impressive this quarter. Is there any marketing or advertisement spend that led to such an outcome?
No, actually, the footfalls, the growth in Hyderabad has happened mostly from groups, which actually we've not had huge group footfalls in Hyderabad from the beginning, but this year, we've been able to crack that, and so I think group footfall has disproportionately increased our Hyderabad footfalls, and I think we want to see a similar effect coming in our other markets also. We expect to see that, and Dheeran will talk about it.
It's also, if you see operationally, it's only eight years old. So it's a newer market. And we definitely see a lot more potential. So that's something that we've been actually able to juice out in the last quarter. And we continue to stay bullish on Hyderabad being a big growth driver for us in the coming years.
Right. So how much did group contribute to the revenue?
Group footfall was about 42%-45% of the overall.
But that is annually, but this quarter will be higher.
This quarter, this quarter is about 42%-45%, which is last year it was at about 36%-37% because groups outgrew general footfall. We've been able to increase the skew. But this is only for this quarter because it's usually the quarter when the school picnics happen.
Right. And last question, sir. Just wanted to know the RPU for Bhubaneswar for this quarter.
For the year basis, it's about 1,200 plus.
Yeah. And for this quarter?
This quarter, because we slightly.
900, I think.
Because you get, you can go to INR 1,030 because you get school groups. Again, in Bhubaneswar also, we've been able to almost 45%-50% of the footfall we got was groups. And groups usually, because these are bulk deals, they come at a lesser average ticket price. That's why the difference in RPU. But at a year basis so far, it's INR 1,200.
Okay, okay. Thank you. That's it from my side, sir.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Angad Katare from Sameeksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is regarding we have appointed a business head for tours and travels in the last quarter. Is this a new division? Just wanted some rationale on the same. And if you could throw some light on the same. Thanks.
So we always had a business head for our tourism business. It comes under our overall groups business. We always had a business head managing the tour operator business. And obviously now, because we scaled Bhubaneswar, we scaled Chennai, we definitely feel that with also the government investing on tourism, we definitely feel in the mid to long term, there is a good opportunity to work with large OTAs, tour operators to bring in the incoming FIT tourists across all our locations. So we want to build that business robustly. So that's something more of a midterm strategic initiative.
Okay. One bookkeeping question on the other expenses have increased to 49 crores this quarter. Substantial jump. What has driven that?
No. There are a couple of things in the expenses front. You can see we have this employee stock option plan released in last year, which is having an expense of about INR 2 crore on every quarter. And then apart from that, we spend about 3, 3 and a half crore for our marketing, almost for one-time expenses. This is for the video shoots, for the activities and all. Apart from these exceptions, there are no more additional spend during the quarter. And then we have made a little bit of staff expansion compared to the last year. We have made about some 67 number of people joined our company when you compare with the previous quarter.
Okay. And if I look at the nine months period, this ticket price has fallen by 2%. So for this year, is it safe to say that going forward, our focus will be on increasing footfall? So that will like.
So I think, see, the way we look at ticket prices, it's also a function of demand. So whenever we see demand weakening, maybe because of weather or other issues, and we see intent to visit is low, we play with pricing. So we are slowly going towards a dynamic pricing kind of a model that we use discounts and other methods mostly for online footfall. So that's why you'll see ATPs will keep fluctuating a little bit, especially in Q2, Q3, and Q4.
So any comments on the guidance for FY26 on the ARPU and footfall change?
We don't give guidance, but we are hoping that Q1 of FY26 should be stronger because that's the first time we will have an entire Q1 for Bhubaneswar. And also, I think Bhubaneswar, we are still in the kind of a launch, semi-launch phase in the last year. So I think this is the first time, I think next financial year, we hopefully March onwards, we can see Bhubaneswar numbers pick up. Other than that, I think our footfalls in the existing other markets like Bangalore, especially, and Kochi were lower last year. So hopefully, we can see a recovery in that also.
Sure. Thank you. I'll get back to you.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and want to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Rohan Nandu from Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Arun. Thank you for taking my question. Just on the footfall side, right, I mean, this year has been quite peculiar in sense that there have been a lot of weather-related issues, emergencies, which have probably related to lower footfall. But just wanted to understand that one of the reasons why we embarked upon we raised money was to probably grow aggressively, and we could see demand after COVID had shot up, right? Does the experience this year anyway change our long-term outlook in terms of a mature park being able to generate a footfall of, let's say, 10 lakh per year? Or that assumption still holds true?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It still holds. It still holds. See, I think inclement weather is always going to be an outlier, and it's not going to, it can throw off any number for any kind of discretionary spend, especially wherein you want people to actually travel to a location and experience that. Any kind of tourist places is susceptible to inclement weather. So that is the one wild card that we will not be able to predict for. But other than that, I think we are not seeing any kind of, we are not changing our strategy because we feel that there is demand. ARPUs are strong. So I mean, in that sense, we are not worried about it. And also the lack of other amusement parks also. So there are not too many direct comparisons for us.
Most of the markets that we operate, we are the number one player. So I don't see any other long-term issues.
Sure. So let's say if we remove some of these days or one of these some weather-related issues, do we continue to see the trend of, let's say, pent-up demand, which we had seen post-COVID?
There is no pent-up demand anymore. I think demand has normalized. So that pent-up demand phenomenon happened only in 2022 and 2023. So now I think we are coming to a more of a normal situation. But I think some of these weather events, if you can remove, I think we'll see I mean, we can look at a better footfall from that perspective, I think.
Understood. So that 1 million still holds, right? I mean, on an average.
No, we want more than that. One million is not good enough for us anymore, so.
Oh, great. That's good to know. Good to know. So and you have made some investments also, right? Made some changes also, right? So let's say in 2026, you mentioned that some of the parks are older. You are adding new rides there. So does it mean that, let's say, when we enter Q1 of FY26, we will have dual levers of having these changes also, which we have made, and then footfall should also normalize? And because demand comes back, we will be comfortable in getting back to our long-term 5% kind of RPU increase. Is that a right way to probably summarize how you look at FY26 right now?
Yeah. I think last year, like I said, this financial year has been tough for footfall growth. In fact, our footfalls have degrown in especially the older markets and even in Bangalore, which is our biggest park. So we have done substantial investment in new rides in all these parks. So I think these will kick in by the end of this by March. I think we'll be opening the latest attraction. We are opening a new attraction in Bhubaneswar also. Because Bhubaneswar, what has happened is when the people come, they all seem to come in that very three, four-month window. We have huge footfalls coming. And last year, what happened was we were not ready, and we were not able to accommodate a lot of those visitors. So I think we're doing some corrective action there.
I think for summer, we'll be ready with some new attractions, even in Bhubaneswar also. So Bhubaneswar, Kochi, Bangalore, even Hyderabad, all four parks will have new attractions going into summer. So I think we should be able to accommodate more footfalls, and we should be able to market it more effectively as well.
Sure. So just to understand these new attractions, are these in place of the older rides, or are you using the land that you have, which is ongoing to try and expand?
It's a mix and match. Some are new attractions. For example, the new attraction Bhubaneswar is a new attraction, which we didn't have before. Bangalore, we have discontinued an old attraction, and we are making into a new attraction, a theater attraction.
Understood. I saw your LinkedIn update as well, and you mentioned on this call as well. Am I correct that you are expecting December 25 to be the date or month in which your Chennai Park will start opening?
December 2025, we are hoping to open the park to public. A soft launch, at least. Not a full launch, but at least a soft launch will be done by December 2025.
Okay, okay. And so it's in line with whatever we were expecting, right? There will be no delays there at that point?
We were supposed to open in June or July of 2025, but that has delayed to December 2025. That's the only change.
Okay. Understood. Understood. And just in terms of the pipeline, right, you mentioned that the ball is maybe not in our court, and it's at the government's hand. But in terms of our outlook of maybe building the capabilities of maybe starting two to three new parks in a year rather than just one in a year, is the pipeline in terms of adding new states showing interest increasing, or is that how should one think about that one?
There is no change there. It is that they have their own procedural delays in doing this kind of activity. So anytime the government has to release or parts of land, there is a lot of procedures. So I think there are some of those delays. I think that is what's keeping them. But other than that, from our side, there is no lack of interest. I mean, the governments are also being very, very supportive, especially UP government, Madhya Pradesh. So we are following up with them, and hopefully, we will have some results. We will update you.
Right. That's it from my side. I'll join back with you. Thanks a lot, Arun.
Yeah.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Yashwant Nerurkar from Ionic Wealth. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my question. So firstly, I wanted to know about the QIP. So after listing, this is the first time you will be raising funds. And I mean, basically, you have been generating a lot of cash anyway. The last two years, if I have to consider, it's almost INR 180 and INR 200 crores. Before that also, you were averaging somewhere around 100. So if you have raised the QIP, funds through QIP, can you just explain how the funds are going to be used? What is the utilization going to be like, and in how much span are you going to utilize it?
So the QIP fund mostly will be used for Chennai, and some of it will be used for our other new projects. And some of it will be used for our existing projects like Bangalore. So between Bangalore, Chennai, and some new projects, this is how the QIP will be used for that.
But would it be fair to say that?
Chennai will be used quickly. Bangalore also will be used within a year. It will be finished. And then the general corporate purposes, we have kept some money, so that could be used for the new projects.
Great. And I mean, would it be fair to say that more than 50% of the funds raised will be used for Chennai, or would it be equally split?
No, 50%.
50% for Chennai.
Yeah.
Okay, and I mean, this and the previous quarter has seen some sharp rise in employee expenses of the previous year. So that is an account of addition of newer employees for the newer park.
Newer parks and Bhubaneswar, for example, in the existing parks also, we have added some people because we are from a three-location company, we are becoming a five, six-location company. So some extra hands are required. So that's the.
You mentioned you added some 67 employees. I mean, did I get it right, or?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think half of them are on the sales team, right? So we are increasing the presence in some of our sales markets. So sales and marketing will see some increase in employees.
Okay, okay. And just wanted to get a sense on what is your plan. See, I mean, we know that there's too much and this is a cyclical business. The footfalls aren't always going to be rising continuously. But what is your plan as to increase the footfalls on a consistent basis? And again, I mean, when I look at the ticket prices, there's no comparison. There's the hardcore ticket price and 20 cents. So of which one.
Sorry, I'm not clear. Not able to hear you clearly.
Is it better now? Hello. Hello? Now?
Ladies and gentlemen, we have the management disconnected. Please stay connected while we reconnect them. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. We have the management back with us. Over to you, sir.
Yeah. So I lost the last question. Or can I repeat?
Yeah, please.
Yeah. So basically, I was just asking this question. I mean, this company, the business is of a nature where the footfalls are going to be a little cyclical, right? And again, the weather is a factor on which we don't have any control. So one, what are your plans over a longer term to increase the footfalls on a really consistent basis? That's one. And secondly, if I look at the ARPU, that is majorly based on two components. One is the ticketing price, and one is the food and beverage. Now, food and beverage, again, wouldn't be in your control, but again, the ticketing price would be in your control, where you can't increase the ticket rate sharply, where you would see lesser footfalls. But again, I mean, you can dynamically play it around.
So what is your overall how would you make sure that the ticketing revenues are good enough as well as the footfall increases consistently over a period of time?
Yeah. I think the business, any kind of tourism business, will always have weather being one of the issues that can create difference in footfalls. And that, I don't think we can change. We can do a couple of things. One is to have more geographies where we can so we can hedge our we can grow in size and also hedge our bet in terms of weather issues. The other thing is we have more tickets sold online and booked in advance so that we can lock in footfall. So we are doing both. And if you see if our footfall, almost more than 50% or 55% of our general footfall is now pre-booked and online footfall.
So that, I think, is something that we will keep growing. Like I said, we are investing heavily in our sales and marketing so that we are, and also investing in our digital transformation. So all these things will help us to make sure that a lot of our footfalls are pre-booked and days or months in advance so that we are not dependent on these last-minute cancellations. So that is one strategy. And of course, the other one is to be geographically in diverse locations so that even if there is inclement weather issues, the footfalls will come from multiple locations. So I think these are the two things that we can do. And also having newer attractions, which we are especially going to other cities where we are having more covered areas and things like that.
So insulated a little bit from the weather, but we can't completely eliminate that factor.
And by any chance, do you keep a tab on the repeat customers or the same customer? You do. And any idea if you can share what percentage of the total footfall would that be?
I think almost 30%-40% of our footfalls is people who have visited us before.
In the same year you're talking about, right? In the same financial year?
I mean, those that visited us the same year will be less than 10%.
Okay, okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.
One more thing, ARPU is a combination of ATP and SPH. SPH is also we maintain in our parks. So the entire restaurant chain in our parks are managed and operated by Wonderla. I mean, we also do a lot of interventions to get more revenue out of non-ticket revenue. You can see about 9% and 12% of growth is there in even in Q3 and 9-month period.
Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. So that's it from my side. Thank you so much for your answers. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Vedant Bhansali from Minerva India. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Number one, if you could just quantify the impact of precipitation in each park, because I think we've spoken about the weather events quite a bit. I just wanted to know if you can maybe tell us how much footfall would have been if not for those days lost because of rain.
Hard to quantify, but I mean, if you look at our footfall, it has degrown by about roughly 14%, right? In our existing parks.
In Bangalore, about some 14%, and even the.
Bhubaneswar also, I think we lost maybe about 30,000-40,000 people because of that. So I think if you look at the dip itself, it's a good indicator of what kind of footfalls we would have lost in those weather events. Mostly weather events is what played against us in the last quarter.
But to give you a sense, Christmas was a clean weather, good occasion. Our campaigns were successful. We saw double-digit growth in footfalls, right? So when we see that.
But except Bhubaneswar, where there was.
Except Bhubaneswar, where there was park on park, we saw growth of double digits. So when there is good weather and we are able to run campaigns successfully, we are able to see that we are able to generate demand.
Got it. So maybe about INR 20,000-INR 30,000 is what we lost in Bhubaneswar, and then would you say similar numbers in Kochi and Bangalore?
Kochi, I think we lost more, no?
We lost a lot more because groups in quarter three played a big piece. So we would have lost 60,000-70,000 because of the meningitis issues that was in all the schools. So I would say Kochi would be a lot more.
Okay, and Bangalore, similar then to Kochi, 60, 70?
Yeah. I think they are the 50K, right?
Yeah.
Almost like 50,000 roughly in both the parks. Each of the parks.
Okay. Got it. Thank you. And next, this was a more general question. So Hyderabad, we've seen now it's sort of come to fruition. It's come to sort of a stable region where the footfalls are growing. So would you say in general, a park, when you set it up, it would take maybe five plus years for it to get to such a stage, or was it sort of special in Hyderabad?
It depends on the market. Some markets, it comes quickly. For example, Kochi, we had yeah. I mean, I think for us to reach one million footfalls, I think we take about five, six years.
Right.
Hyderabad is a bit off because after four years of starting, we had to shut for two years because of COVID. So it was, again, we had to restart. So it had a break. But yeah, I think a large metro city would take four to five years to get to at least a million plus footfall.
Got it.
I think that in Chennai, it will happen a little faster because they are a much more well-known brand.
Well-known brand in South.
Right. Okay. And if you could maybe just give a CAPEX guidance for next FY26, FY27?
Personally, whatever is as per object as per QIP, which is for our Chennai park and then certain other extension in our existing Bangalore, Hyderabad, and then the refurbishment of our resort, all those things are already planned as per the QIP. Apart from that, we generally spend about 10% of my revenue towards the CAPEX as the ride expansion or maybe restaurant building and combination of this.
Okay, so maybe in the INR 400-INR 500 crore range.
You're talking including the new park and other facilities? Yes.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
Got it. And one last question I had. So you had mentioned on some earlier calls that it takes about 300-500 crores to set up a new park. And it took around 200 for Bhubaneswar. So would it be fair to assume that since Bhubaneswar is leased, about 200 crores is the cost for setting up just the rides? Is that fair?
Yeah, yeah. Not the park. I mean, not the rides. The entire park. There are a lot of things. Yeah. Setting up a park for us in a tier two city, you're looking at around 200 CR, and for a large city, 500 CR.
Okay. And so, how much would exactly the rides cost be? So, out of this 200, how much do you think was spent on rides?
I would say 60%. 60% will go on rides. 40% will be other things: buildings, restaurants, pathways, other things, utilities, sort of things.
Okay. So about 120. And this 120, is it mainly imported? Because I think there was talk sometime back about maybe manufacturing our own rides, some of them as well.
Some of our rides are our own. I would say half of them are made by us. The other half would be imported.
Imported. All right. Got it. Thank you. Thank you so much for answering.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Monish Ghodke from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. So how much annualized footfall do you expect in Bhubaneswar on a normalized basis?
I think once it kind of fully matures, we are expecting between INR 5 lakhs and INR 6 lakhs, INR 5 lakhs to INR 6 lakhs.
Okay, and by when do you expect it to reach that number?
Four, five years.
Okay. And so, once it, I mean, at what level it should break even? I believe, I mean.
2 lakhs it will break even. 2 or 2.5.
2 lakhs.
2 lakhs.
Okay. And by when do you expect to have that kind of footfall?
That should happen next year. Next financial year it will happen.
Okay. And so I believe we are also planning a park in Madhya Pradesh, right? So how much CAPEX are we doing there?
Similar, INR 200 crore kind of size.
So that would also take like three, four years to get matured, right?
Maybe a little faster because it's a slightly bigger city. But yeah, it's hard to predict at this point.
But then, sir, if I see the payback period of this business, then it comes to like 8 to 10 years, right?
Within eight years, I think we are expecting.
The capital will be heavy. So the front load and everything. So it will just four to five years for a smaller park. Maybe seven, eight years will take for a large park. Even tier one cities and all, it will take some seven to eight years.
Okay, and so I know I think you have answered this before. I mean, the kind of degrowth we had, it was because of some weather factors or some specific issue like some virus. But are you seeing any kind of cyclical slowdown or any kind of overall consumption?
Small impact of that also is there. Yeah.
I think clearly the macro-environment factors, a lot of other consumer companies have also spoken about the slowdown in discretionary spend, so I think that also applies to us.
Okay. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the conference, please limit your questions to one per participant. Should you have a follow-up question, we request you to rejoin the queue. We have our next question from the line of Amit Agicha from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, sir. Am I audible?
Yeah.
First and foremost, congratulations to the entire team at Wonderla Holidays on exceptional achievement of being India's most visited amusement park. Most of my questions have been answered. I was just wanted to know what are the total number of employees the company has? And the new park which is coming up in MP, where is the location?
We have 800 to 850 people there on-rolls. And then we have about some 1,800 people there on off-rolls as well. As of now. And we'll grow. And when we have a new park, every park will have at least 700 to 800 new employees. The new park in Madhya Pradesh, we are planning between Indore and Bhopal. We are there. Can you hear us?
Amit sir?
I think we lost him.
As a response, we'll move on to the next question. The next question is from the line of Krutika Prabhudesai from Mirae Asset . Hey Karan, please go ahead.
So first on the footfalls, we have around 23.7 lakh footfalls for nine months. And sir just mentioned that we expect footfalls to be flat for FY25. So is it that Q4 we see a good amount of growth in footfalls? You're doing the same?
No, what I meant by flat is quarter on quarter, it should be flattish. We are not expecting much growth in Q4 because Q4 is anyway, it's not much of a weakish quarter, and any growth in footfalls usually happens in Q1 or Q3 for us, usually.
Also on the margin front, for nine months, whatever we have, margin of around 37% for EBITDA margin. So for the full year and for the next one or two years, what do we expect? How are the margins to move ahead?
So it depends on when you're opening up the park, but generally, there will be expenses which is not corresponding to the revenue that they generate. So which can impact our EBITDA for a temporary period. This can be about 35%-40% if you historically observe the EBITDA margin of the company. So you can see about pre-COVID, it was about some 35%-40%. And after COVID, after adding another two years, post-COVID, it's about some 40%. So it's always 35%-40% could be the expectation, I feel.
Okay. Okay. All right. So that's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kaustubh Pawaskar from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. So my question is on the non-ticketing revenues. So this quarter, we have seen Bangalore, Kochi, non-ticketing revenues going by single digit. So should we expect consistent kind of growth in non-ticketing revenues in this range of high single digit to low double digit, considering the fact that you are putting a lot of investment to increase the quantum of non-ticketing revenues?
Yeah. I think a lot of investments are made to continue to build on our non-ticket revenue. If you look at our last four years, CAGR, also we've been at about 11%. We are bullish on driving our ARPU through our non-ticket revenue. So we expect moving forward also anywhere between 9%-11%, we want to build our sales per acre.
Just one long-term continuing to this question, long-term question. Non-ticketing revenues generally have better margins than what the ticketing revenues?
It's almost the same, 50% margin.
Okay. It is almost the same. Okay. Because I just wanted to understand whether mix once the mix improves, whether that will also add on to your margins going ahead. Just wanted to understand that part.
It depends on our product assortment, our menu mix. So there are a lot of permutation combinations, but usually it's similar. We keep learning and trying to improvise to see how we can optimize it. But so far, it's similar.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Angad Katare from Samiksha Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks again for the opportunity. So my follow-up question is on the, you mentioned that the new park may be announced in the near future. Will we need more capital for the same?
No, no. We will not need any more capital. All the future thing will be done through a combination of internal accruals and maybe some debt also.
How much debt are we comfortable debt to equity?
About some 30% of the total spend, but that's what we are thinking of from the debt.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Richa from Equitymaster. Please go ahead.
Sir, thank you for the opportunity. My question is that this Chennai Park has been shifted by a few months. So has there also been some escalation in the CAPEX that was estimated for the park? And if so, what is the expected CAPEX?
No, we don't expect any escalation in the cost because we already placed the order. There's only a slight delay because of some weather and other conditions. So we are not expecting any increase in the cost. Only inclement weather that is causing the delay. I mean, all our costs are off-peak only. There is not much. Maybe some small change here and there can happen, but nothing major.
So this cost is around INR 5 billion. Am I correct?
Yeah, INR 515 crores.
Okay. INR 515 crores. Okay. And sir, for the Chennai Park, what kind of timeline do you foresee for the park to break even? I think for Orissa, you mentioned FY26, but.
I think within the first full year of operations, I think we should be able to break even.
Okay. Okay. And is there any timeline for MP Park?
It's a soft launch period, and then after that, I think we should be able to break even.
Okay, and is there any timeline for the MP Park? When can we expect it to come out?
We don't know the timeline. We will keep you updated once we have some.
Okay. Thank you. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that will be the last question for today. And I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you all for joining Wonderla Holidays Q3 FY25 result update. We continue to be bullish on the sector, and we hope to take the Wonderla brand to more cities and give better experience to all our guests. Hope to see you in the next call. Thank you again.
Thank you. On behalf of Ambit Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your line.