Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Afcons Infrastructure Limited Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call, hosted by IIFL Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yatharth Prakhmana, and welcome everyone to the discussion with the management of Afcons Infrastructure Limited. From the management, we have Mr. Subramanian Krishnamurthy, Executive Vice Chairman for Afcons; Mr. Paramasivan Srinivasan, Managing Director; Mr. Ramesh Kumar Jha, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Hitesh Singh, Head Corporate Strategy. To start off, I'll hand it over to the management for the opening comments, post which we'll have a Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm pleased to welcome all of you to the Q4 and FY earnings conference call of Afcons Infrastructure Limited . Our financial results and investor presentations have been uploaded on the exchanges, and I hope you had a chance to review them. As told, joining me today are Mr. Paramasivan Srinivasan , Managing Director; Mr. Ramesh Jha , Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Hitesh Singh , Corporate Strategy Head. Let me begin with a brief overview of our performance. Afcons supported a Q4 FY 2025 total income of INR 3,387 crore, compared to INR 3,809 crore in Q4 FY 2024. For the full year, the total income was INR 13,023 crore, slightly below the INR 13,647 crore recorded in FY 2024. This marks only the second time in a decade that we have missed our budgeted turnover, with the COVID year being a prior exception.
Our top-line traits had been from challenges such as cash flow constraints in the Jal Jeevan Mission project, political instability in Bangladesh, and delays in project awards and L1 to LOA conversion. While we took proactive steps to address these challenges, the scale impacted our performance. Our CFO will elaborate on these factors. Despite these obstacles, our discipline to financial management and robust cost controls enabled us to deliver strong profitability metrics. Turning to our profitability metrics now, EBITDA for Q4 stood at INR 415 crore, compared to INR 482 crore in Q4 FY 2024. For the full year, EBITDA margin improved by 120 basis points, reaching 12.8% compared to 11.6% last year. FY EBITDA stood at INR 1,662 crore, registering a 5% year-on-year increase. Profit after tax for Q4 FY was INR 111 crore, compared to INR 145 crore in the same quarter last year.
For the full year, PAT stood at INR 487 crore, reflecting an 8% growth over FY 2024. On the debt side, total debt at the end of FY 2025 stood at INR 2,235 crore, down from INR 2,455 crore. In FY 2024, our debt-to-equity ratio correspondingly moderated from 0.68 to 0.42. There were several notable developments during the year. Result rated companies' bank loans assigned AA- with a stable outlook for the long term and A1+ with a stable outlook for the short term. Upgrades from the earlier rating of A1+ in the long term and A1 in the short term. This reflects our strong execution capabilities, healthy business profile, and consistent performance to complete complex infrastructure projects across geographies. We were also included in the MSCI India Domestic Small Cap Index, as well as Nifty 500 and Nifty Small Cap 250 indices, further validating our growing eleven in the capital market.
Our project execution trend: we completed many projects for which we received the completion certificates: 97 km Ghana Railway project, the longest in Ghana, the East-West Kolkata Metro, India's first under-river metro tunnel, the Tirupati Smart City project, a water supply project in Zanzibar, and the Reach 2 of Nagpur Metro Rail project, featuring India's first four-level viaduct. In addition to project execution, we continued to build institutional strength and industry leadership. Afcons was recognized among India's top 500 most valuable companies in the 2024 Burgundy Private Woman India 500 list. We also received several prestigious awards, reaffirming our position as a company committed to knowledge, innovation, and engineering excellence. Our seventh consecutive MIKE award for knowledge management, the CII Industry Excellence Award in the Platinum category, received fourth consecutive year and recognition as India's 35 most innovative companies by CII.
Safety is a non-negotiable priority at Afcons, and we continue to elevate our safety standards to meet global benchmarks. One of our projects in Liberia received the prestigious Five-Star Golden Award and the Safety Shield from the National Safety Council of India. Additionally, the British Safety Council conferred international safety awards for two of our projects in Bihar and for Package 6 in Delhi-Meerut RRTS projects. Eleven other projects were recognized for safety excellence by the World Safety Organization and the Indian Chamber of Commerce. In line with our focus on improving efficiencies, we are making investments in adoption of emerging technologies and digital transformation. We expect to reap the benefits of these investments in the near future. We reaffirm our commitment of creating value for our stakeholders, customers, and shareholders, and we wish to thank you for all your support and trust.
I now hand over the call to our Managing Director, Mr. Paramasivan Srinivasan, who will share deeper insights into our strategic developments and future roadmaps. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Subramanian. Good morning, everybody. It's my pleasure to welcome you all at the Q4 and FY 2025 earnings conference call of Afcons . We truly appreciate your continued interest and support in our journey. Financial Year 2025 has been a mixed year for the company. While we have seen a post-election slowdown that continues to linger, the government's commitment to infrastructure development remains strong, as is evident from the union budget. Geopolitical uncertainties have posed challenges, impacting supply chains and, in certain cases, project timelines also. The ongoing tariff tensions are altering the global business landscape, though the long-term implications are still unfolding. That said, we are seeing some positive momentum on the ground and remain optimistic about the medium-term outlook. Despite these headwinds, we are confident about our growth trajectory.
For Financial Year 2026, we are targeting a top-line growth of 20%-25%, with new order bookings in the range of INR 20,000 crore-INR 25,000 crore, excluding more than INR 10,500 crore of L1 orders. Regarding the conversion of these L1 projects, we expect letters of acceptance from two Pune Ring Road projects aggregating to INR 4,788 crore, Rajasthan Water Supply Project of INR 427 crore, two Nagpur-Gondia projects, and all these in the first quarter of the current year. In addition to the robust top-line growth, we also aim to maintain a healthy EBITDA margin, and while we had gated at 11%+ last year and delivered about 12.8%, we continue to gate 11%+ for the current year as well. Despite a temporary slowdown, we remain optimistic about robust infrastructure demand in India and globally.
Domestically, alongside the government's ongoing infrastructure priorities, we anticipate increased investments in border infrastructure, connectivity projects such as roads and tunnels, as well as accelerated focus on the hydro sector. Afcons, with its diversified expertise and proven execution track record, is well-positioned to drive these initiatives and support India's infrastructure and strategic goals. Internationally, we see emerging opportunities in our focus region, including Africa and some of our neighboring countries as well. Apart from that, there are definitely some positivities in the Middle East and Saudi. We have explained on multiple occasions how and why we have reduced our exposure in the Middle East. We are now working on select opportunities in Saudi and Dubai, partnering with strong local players to capitalize on evolving market dynamics.
As of March 31, 2025, our pending order book stands at INR 36,869 crore, highest in Afcons' history, and it's roughly about 2.9x of our turnover. We recorded strong order flows. We have always maintained that this thing we will maintain between 2.5x-3.5x, while the outer limit could be 4x. We recorded strong ordering flows of INR 15,960 crore, and we are confident. We have already explained the L1 status. We also made strategic entries into new segments and geographies. Afcons entered into water supply tunnel segments through two projects awarded by SIDCO and MCGM. We have also backed our first marine project with prestigious client, DP World, further diversifying our client base. Notably, we completed the incorporation of our joint venture company in Saudi Arabia with a local partner and plan to commence project bidding activities soon.
In conclusion, I would like to reiterate that Afcons is strongly positioned to capitalize on emerging opportunities in the infrastructure sector. With a healthy order book, robust business development process, and a solid execution track record, we are confident of delivering sustained growth and long-term value for all our stakeholders. With this, I conclude my remarks and now hand over the call to Mr. Ramesh Jha, our Chief Financial Officer, who will take you through the financial performance and data. Thank you all.
Thank you, sir. Good morning, everyone. Before getting specific into the numbers, I would just like to clarify that the company is into business of construction. The margin in a quarter varies based on the nature, type, and quantum of work executed. Quarterly results may vary in different quarters and may not be indicative of annual results or trends.
Now, to the specific numbers, in Q4 FY 2025, we have done a total income of INR 3,387 crore, as against in Q4 2024, INR 3,809 crore. The Q4 number from year-on-year basis has come down 11.1%. As compared to Q3 2025, the number is 1.7%. It has gone up. In terms of full-year number, the total income is INR 13,023 crore, as against FY 2024, INR 13,647 crore. On a full-year basis, the number has come down 4.6%. Now, if we talk specifically on the revenue, Q4 we have seen generally there was delayed payments. Payments were not very smooth from many customers. We witnessed funding requirements from many projects at the same period of time in Q4. This was not possible because of, at the time, requirement to fund. Under the circumstances, we decided to balance between funding growth and maintaining liquidity.
We funded projects up to our limit, but we had not gone beyond the point to avoid overexposure in any project. Usually, we have seen that in Q4, we do at least 15%-20% turnover more than what we do in Q2, Q3, backed by smooth payment from customers. This gives us the benefit of economies of scale and improves the profitability in Q4, and then the impetus is on the full year as well. However, for the full year, we achieved a turnover of INR 13,000 crore, which came down from the previous year top line. This year, we could not achieve the planned turnover on an overall year basis because we could not do the planned turnover in our projects in Bangladesh because of the reasons you all are aware. Jal Jeevan Mission, we have seen bill certification and payment-related issues.
This has impacted the Q4 turnover, and this has also impacted the overall profitability. Usually, in a year, when I said that in Q4 we do 15%-20% more, that's not only in this quarter, but on the overall year, it gives the benefit. These were the main reasons for top line. Now, as far as revenue guidance, MD has already talked about. In FY 2025, we have booked around INR 16,000 crore of orders, and we are L1 in project work INR 10,600 crore. We are targeting to better the order booking in FY 2026 as compared to 2025. Therefore, in FY 2026, backed by this strong order book we have and the kind of order booking we are looking at, we are looking at a top-line growth in the range of 20%-25%.
On a medium to long-term horizon, we would like to sustain our long-term CAGR achieved of around 15%. Now, moving to EBITDA, during the quarter, we have done INR 415 crore of EBITDA, which is 12.2%. If we correspond this with the previous year, Q4, where we had done INR 482 crore, 12.7%, there is a number that has come down from the previous year. If you look at the same number from the Q3 of this financial year, where we had done INR 448 crore, from that also, the number for the Q4 has come down. On an overall yearly basis, if we see, we have done INR 1,662 crore of EBITDA, as against INR 1,583 crore in the previous financial year. The overall year EBITDA has gone up by 5%. In terms of percentage, FY 2025, we have done 12.8%, as against FY 2024, 11.6%.
Now, EBITDA, in our EBITDA calculation, we consider BG Commission as part of our operating expenditure. So, EBITDA that we are talking about is after renewal of BG Commission as expenditure, whereas we understand the market considers BG Commission as part of interest or finance costs. Hence, if you consider that way, then the EBITDA will increase to the extent of INR 168 crore, which works out to be 1.3% of the total income. What we are talking about, 12.8%, it will go to 14.1%, whereas at the same time, the market removes the other income. That is another nuance which one needs to factor. As far as other income is concerned, our EBITDA calculation, what we have talked about, 12.8%, includes other income as part of revenue. Here, we have explained earlier also that our other income needs to be understood in the perspective of our business.
Arbitration interest, foreign currency exchange gain, and miscellaneous incomes are recurring and very integral to our business. Hence, these need to be considered as other operating income. For the full year, the total operating income is INR 474 crore. Now, when we have talked about EBITDA, I would also like to clarify that construction is full of contingencies. Our endeavor will be to save on those contingencies or optimize those costs, but many a times, we may not be able to save those contingencies. Hence, our guidance will remain around 11%. Now, moving on from EBITDA, if you look at the profit before tax, for the Q4 2025, we have done INR 184 crore, as against we had done INR 207 crore in the previous Q4 2024. In the previous quarter, Q3 of 2025, we had done INR 200 crore.
For the full year, we have done INR 710 crore, as against INR 673 crore done previous year. On a full-year basis, the profit before tax has gone up by 5.6%. In terms of percentage, for the full year, it is 5.5%, whereas last year we had done 4.9%. Now, from EBITDA to profit before tax, we would like to clarify that finance costs during the year, we have seen that the payments were not forthcoming as smoothly as one would have expected. Payments in Jal Jeevan Mission projects were not coming. We hardly received anything in UP projects full year, and in MP projects, it was coming with a lot of rationing. We witnessed overall stretch across the spectrum in payments. This resulted in higher average borrowing during the year. Because of this, interest costs have gone up.
This year, our international order booking is low, where the advances are higher, and all the advances are interesting. Coupled with this, new interest-bearing advances we received have elevated the interest costs on client advances, taking the overall interest costs high. Usually, 20%-25% of our interest-bearing, 20%-25% of our total advances are interest-bearing, but of the new jobs we have received during the year, 75% of the projects were having advances with interest-bearing costs. Because of this, our interest costs on an overall basis have gone up, and that is why the PBT number is at INR 710 crore. Now, the PBT is also factored after considering the accelerated depreciation because we continue to account for accelerated depreciation on our TBMs. Of the total INR 491 crore of depreciation, around one-third is on account of accelerated depreciation.
So, that also needs to be factored when we look at the PBT number or any return we calculate. Now, moving on, profit after tax, for the full year, we have done INR 487 crore, and as against INR 450 crore done in the last year, which it has grown 8.2%. If we look at the specific for the quarter, INR 111 crore we have done in Q4 2025, as against INR 145 crore we have done in the last year, Q4 2024, and INR 149 crore done in Q3 2025. Another important aspect one may look at, if we look at the tax rate as a percentage, it is working out around 30% or so. The tax rate on Afcons's profit, if we look at Afcons plus its joint ventures, the tax rate on Afcon's profit is around 27.5% only.
This is on account of our JVs, and of course, this 27.5% is also higher than the normal one would expect, 25.17% normal tax rate. This 27.5% is higher because our JVs pay tax in the range of 35%-36%. Second, in some overseas locations like Bangladesh, some African countries, the turnover is charged at the turnover. In such a situation, if you do not make profit above the threshold, your tax deduction needs to be charged off as an expenditure. That also takes the tax rate higher. Now, when I talk about Afcons plus JVs, the rate is 27.5%, whereas on a consolidated basis, it is 30%. In some overseas subsidiaries, we had to make some provisioning on a conservative basis, and that is how the profitability has come down. If you look at it on a consolidated basis, the tax rate is appearing higher.
Otherwise, Afcons plus JV, the tax rate is only 27.5%. Now, moving on, if you look at some of the return ratios, so return on capital employed, we have done 17%, as against we had done around 20% last year. And return on equity, as against done 13% last year, we have done 11%. So, capital infusion has increased the capital base, but operations are yet to elevate. Hence, returns in FY 2025 is 17.28% on ROCE basis as compared to previous year 20.18%, and we have locked in around 11% ROE. So, and at the same time, I would like to clarify that these returns are return on equities after the accelerated depreciation. So, once the business elevates, these returns will go back to the normal levels, what we were doing earlier.
Now, on the debt basis, at the year end, FY 2025, our debt has come down to the levels of INR 2,230 crore on a gross basis and INR 1,486 crore on net basis. On net basis, debt equity is working out around 0.28x of the net worth. On gross basis, the debt to equity is around 0.42. This is, I think, very excellent debt metrics if one would have looked at. In terms of net working capital days, net working capital is at an elevated level of 113 days. We are witnessing delays in certification of the work done and delays of payment in some projects. This has led to the increase in uncertified work done, leading to a jump in working capital requirement.
Most of the projects got all the billed amount cleared by the year end, but Jal Jeevan Mission remained to be an exception, wherein overall around INR 500 crore worth remained outstanding. This itself is close to 14 days of working capital. Another important point to note is the recent advances we have received. All of it is classified as non-current advances. So, roughly 25 days equivalent funds, which is otherwise available to us, are not getting factored in the net working calculation cycle. Just that the recovery of those advances will start only after 20%-30% of the project completion. All these advances are getting classified as non-current. Effectively, we need to see the net working capital adjusting for those 25 days as non-current advances, not the full amount, but the incremental from last year. This is on the net working capital front.
on behalf of Afcon s, I thank everyone for attending this call. Now, I request the moderator to open the floor for Q&A.
Sir, should we begin the question and answer session?
Yes.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have a first question from the line of Aditya Bhartia from Investec. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning, sir. Sir, my first question is on the provisioning that we have done in this year.
We can see from the cash flow statement that there appears to be elevated provisioning this year. To which project does it pertain to? The related question is on the annual WIP part, that given that it has increased a lot this particular year, you mentioned about Jal Jeevan Mission. Are there other projects also that are not getting certified? Within Jal Jeevan Mission, what is your expectation? How exactly does this issue get resolved? Now, I'll come back to the second question.
Yeah, as far as provisioning is concerned, there is an accounting standard on the ECL, and recently there was a guidance also on the ECL. On that basis, we have formed a committee, and the committee looks at the overall whatever contract assets we have and the receivables we have.
This is that we have taken feedback from the committee, and accordingly, we have gone ahead with the provisioning. It is not specific to one project. It is across projects. Wherever we have deemed fit, we have provided for that ECL provisioning. That is in line with the accounting standard. This is one. On the contract assets or unbilled revenue, as I said, we have not gone overboard in funding the Jal Jeevan Mission project. We have funded to an extent, and beyond that, we have not gone ahead. In Madhya Pradesh projects, we have received maybe around 50% of the payments before March. The sizable portion was released in the month of exchange. In UP, we have not seen the payment force what discussion our people had with the senior officials at the UP project.
They are saying that in June, they are going to release a sizable amount of payment.
Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is on the Middle East market, wherein of late you have started speaking a fair bit, and it seems that we are looking at certain opportunities. Just want to understand how's the qualification status over there. Which are the areas wherein we have qualified? Which are the areas wherein we are focusing on it? How exactly are we tying up with the local contractors, and what kind of opportunities are we really looking at? How large can that market be for us?
Practically, we are looking at tying up with a player locally. Where we will have the maximum share of work, we will have a comparatively lesser share of work. In terms of local environment management and other areas, it will be advanced.
Practically, for every area, we are qualified. Some big projects, we are already pre-qualified, and the proposal has to be made. We are also looking at a model where some government agency from Dubai or Middle Eastern countries can work with the concessional so that some of the contract conditions we have talked about in the form, we can work with the concessional to make it advantageous to us. That also we are doing. In terms of Saudi, we are very much focused on select work to start with. Principally, the work which are being administered by either Aramco, SABIC, or PIF, or some of the Navy-related work. These are the kind of work we are focused on in Saudi.
Understood, sir. Within Aramco, will we be a subcontractor to the main contractor? What about UAE?
In Saudi, we could be a main contractor also. Aramco is not only doing oil and gas now. They are giving a lot of infrastructure projects also to be administered. So we could be the main contractor with Aramco. That is something going on. In terms of Dubai also, we will be the main contractor. If there is a consessional, we will be the contractors as part of the consessional.
Understood, sir.
In two years in succession in UAE, we were rated as the best contractor. In Kuwait, we were rated as the best contractor for a year. Therefore, in fact, they have been in continuous discussion with us, "Why don't you participate?" We have put certain benchmarks to participate so that our risk is reasonably mitigated.
Understood, sir. That is helpful. Thank you so much.
Thanks, Aditya.
Thank you.
We have our next question from the line of Jainam Jain from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is, how are we seeing the bid pipeline in India and Middle East in this year?
Okay. Yeah. Bid pipeline looks very healthy. We maintain our bid pipeline for the next two years. In the next years, we have visibility of focus projects. I mean, if you see, the universe is very large, but the kind of projects we focus on is close to INR 320,000 crore. Out of that, it's a, I mean, as in the same, 2/3 is domestic, 1/3 is overseas opportunity.
If we look it into specifics as in what is the nature of the opportunity we are targeting, around INR 1.3 lakh crore of the opportunity which we are pursuing are from the urban space, which includes underground metro, elevated metro, bridges, and elevated corridors. Close to INR 80,000 crore of opportunities are from the hydro sector, which includes road tunnels, a dam, hydropower projects, and water-related projects. Around INR 50,000 crore of the opportunity we see in the next two years are from the surface transport, which is largely into road business, and also in some couple of rail bridges also we are pursuing. Some rail projects outside India, we are pursuing. Around INR 47,000 crore of the opportunities are from the marine and industrial sector. As we have earlier mentioned also, especially in marine, we work with very marquee clients like Reliance, ArcelorMittal.
There are opportunities with clients as well, both in India and outside. That's been the pipeline out.
Okay, sir. Sir, what sort of arbitration income are we looking to get in FY 2026 and FY 2027? Do you have any thoughts after that?
Can you come again, Jainam? I'm not clear on the question.
Hello. Hello. Am I audible right now?
Yeah, yeah. You are audible.
Yeah. Sir, what sort of arbitration income are we looking to get in FY 2026 and FY 2027?
Arbitration income, it's difficult to put any number. Usually, what happens is that every year, we keep track of all the arbitration cases which are ongoing. With some reasonable certainty, we are aware which all awards are going to get rectified during the year. Those awards are factored accordingly in the projection.
Okay, sir.
What sort of debt levels are we looking at by the end of FY 2026? Currently, we are at the net debt of INR 800 crore, as far as I understand.
See, it's difficult to put any number at the moment for FY 2026. What we have talked about always is on a gross debt-to-equity basis. As we have moved below 0.5, we'll be comfortable maintaining those levels. On the debt-to-EBITDA level, we would not like to make this cross, maybe say around 1.5 or so. Considering those aspects, we are looking at debt curtain. We are in a very comfortable situation as far as debt is concerned. Wherever there will be requirement to put in some capex and all that, we are fully prepared.
To accelerate growth, if some equipment or other stuff are required, we are in a very comfortable position to. For accounting purposes as well.
Okay, sir. My last question is, are there any slow-moving orders in a permanent order book?
Slow-moving orders, it's not that. Not there. Bangladesh, we have got a couple of projects. The projects are going slow. Besides that, we have got one project in Jammu and Kashmir that also is going a bit slow. If we look at it from the overall order book perspective, those are not that sizable.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, if you wish to ask any questions, you may press star and one. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, you may press star and one.
We have our next question from the line of Amol Rao from One Up Financial Consultants. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Mr. Krishnamurthy. Mr. Jha, thanks for the detailed presentation. Sir, a couple of questions. Sir, in Bangladesh project, if I remember correctly, at the IPO time, you had said that this usually gets classified as a government project because it's funded by the Indian government. Is that understanding correct, sir? I mean...
Yes. Understanding is correct. It is a non-FDI funded project.
And sir, you also explained that usually, I mean, to the extent of the work that is done, which crosses the milestone, we get paid. Ultimately, I mean, if the work stalls or is going slow, I mean, the exposure is less. I know you have said that it's an insignificant amount, but could you have put some number to it?
Is it possible, sir, to put a number?
I will explain. I will explain Bangladesh situation. We were doing at a point of time four projects. Three road projects and one railway project in joint venture with KPTM. Recently, about a month, on 6th of May also, not even a month, Government of India has approved adjustment within the BoQ for railway projects and one road project. The other road project, Government of India has approved variations to the tune of $16.5 million. With that, Government of India stands committed towards completion of these projects.
However, the ground-level situation being what it is, out of three road projects, one project we have where as the Government of Bangladesh is not in a position to have a rate revision done, which we had requested, we had earlier also conveyed that, that there is where we have done only survey without rate revision, refused to do the other work, there is an agreement to foreclose the contract, which is in terms of value, it's not very significant, it's about INR 500 crore or so. That will get foreclosed and it's already approved by the Government of Bangladesh. Indian government has to approve it. Package one and two of road, Package one, variations have been approved. Package two, within the BoQ, changes in terms of scope deletion, scope addition, or revision in rate, all these are permitted.
Even with all these, we were initially, Indian government conveyed to go slow till such time things are settled at the government-to-government level. After that, now Indian government has given the go-ahead. That's the reason when our CFO explained, he did explain about a shortfall in turnover with respect to Bangladesh. Now we have started. We will be going selectively because of internal stressful going on within Bangladesh, which could impact. At some stage, we could get stuck with something. Therefore, we are very cautious. We have kept the limited equipment and other equipment, we have already moved back to India. Therefore, our risk exposure is comparatively less if in case of the reason internal political issue. That is the thing which we want to explain. Amol, just to add here, these projects are funded by Government of India through line of credit.
Now, if you are looking at specific exposure from the Bangladesh project, close to INR 50 crore, we have to receive. All that is retention money. Generally, those are released after the completion of the project. We do not foresee any difficulty in getting payment because regular bills, whatever slow progress work we are doing, we are getting it paid. Just to add, in line of credit projects in Bangladesh, Nepal, and Sri Lanka, there has never been any instance where an exporter has done some work and payment has not been given. Be rest assured that whatever payment is outstanding, we are going to get paid, and those payments are going to be released from Exim Bank of India here in India. There are no risks as such from the receivable perspective.
Sir, thank you, sir. That was a very elaborate clarification. Sir, Mr.
Krishnamurthy did mention that there was approximately a INR 500 crore closure that will move out of the order book at some point in time whenever that project is closed, right?
Which INR 500 crore?
Sir, you said that there was a road project for a INR 500 crore project foreclosure, which has been approved by the Bangladesh government, which is to be approved by the Indian government. Once that happens, that moves out of the order book. Am I...
That is already removed. Already removed. Already removed from the order book. It is not...
Oh, okay. It's already removed. All right, sir. Sir, thank you so much. I wish you all the best, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Amos Tan from Fullerton Fund Management. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Hi. My name is Amos.
I'm at Fullerton Fund Management in Singapore. I wanted to ask two questions. Just to follow on from the question on Bangladesh, what is your total risk exposure? Is this INR 500 crore which we talked about and has been removed from your order already?
No, see, that INR 500 crore work project we have already talked about that we have removed from our order book. At the moment, we have got a couple of projects, one road project and another rail project. These two projects, we have to do the execution. To execute these projects and to limit our risk, what we have done, we have limited our resources to the extent possible. We have moved our resources and we'll do, we'll not try to overexpose ourselves as far as exposure is concerned.
In terms of receivable, just now I talked about that we have got total INR 50 crore, which is close to, say, $6 million. We have to receive. All this is retention money, which is not due, which gets released only on the completion of the project. At the same time, what I'm saying is, in case of Bangladesh project, there are no instance where there has been any default in the payment because these payments have to be released by Exim Bank of India here in India. Those works have already been certified by Bangladesh authority and they have already sent this to the Indian authorities. All documented and payment is that it will fall due on the completion. We'll get that payment. There is no exposure, there is no risk of any receivables not getting paid in Bangladesh.
That's where going forward, we are taking a very cautious approach.
Okay. Second question is, could you outline your, I take your point on the 20% top line growth KPI for 2026, FY 2026? Could you outline at the margin or this margin broadly, what your expectations over there and the various cost items like raw material, labor costs, if you could comment on the extent of compensation that you are seeing at the moment? Thank you.
See, next year, of course, when we are looking at 20% top line growth, that will reflect in all the numbers, your EBITDA margin and your return ratios, all will be from the elevated level what we have clocked from this year. In terms of guidance, we will not be able to talk about all those numbers. What we can talk about is the EBITDA margin will maintain 11%+.
I see. Could you comment on the scale of cost inflation that you're seeing at the moment? Do you hear from employees or raw material? How should we think about the scope of cost inflation that you're seeing at the moment?
See, cost inflation, majority of our projects have got a pass-through mechanism because we have that escalation through escalation formula. We get compensated from the customers. At the moment, majority of the projects are with the government customer where there is an escalation provision. It is not going to impact our profitability.
Understood. It seems pretty difficult, I mean, you guys have a top 18% EBITDA margin you're carrying for 11%+ . I'm just wondering how margins fall for the year, perhaps you're being conservative. Yeah.
If you can help us understand the scale of EBITDA margin has been 100 basis points lower than year- on- year.
See, this is where we have talked about in past that our project selection plays a very crucial role. And then some of the risk framework we have put in place, the knowledge management in the organization. All that helps right since beginning when we back the project and when the project goes through this risk management framework and the knowledge in the organization. All that helps to clock the margin we are doing. That's where if you see, not only this year, every year, say, 2022, we had done close to 9.5%. 2023, we had done 10.7%. 2024, we had done 11.6%. This year, we had done 12.8%.
On a consistent basis, the margins, we are one year clocking and year- on- year basis, we are trying to improvise.
Okay. For this year, at least 11%, yeah?
Yes. At the same time, let me just reiterate what I said, that construction is full of contingencies. Our endeavor will be saved on some of the aspects, but not all the times we will be successful. If we are successful, the kind of results we have shown last three, four years, if we are not, then what we are saying is at least we will be able to do 11%.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Sir, the first question is on the reason you highlighted for the slower revenue growth in this quarter as well as the lower margins which are emanating from that. Does Bangladesh and JDM project fully explain that, or are you seeing a slightly broader slowdown in terms of payment and execution? Related to that, have you seen any improvement so far in April, May in that sense, or does this continue to remain slow even in the first quarter?
See, usually in April, you will have hardly any payments. We need to understand this from the broader economic perspective. Everybody was talking about in Q4 that there was a liquidity squeeze in the Indian economy. Even the Asian economy people were talking about. RBI did a lot of open market operations, and through different means, they were trying to infuse liquidity.
We have seen that in the month of May, payments, whatever we had to receive, those payments have come. Again, in the economy as a whole, we are hearing that the liquidity is there because even in Q4, banks were telling that they were facing the liquidity pressure, which now they are saying that they are plugged with the liquidity. I'm hopeful that things should significantly improve.
Okay. Basically, execution should normalize from first quarter is what they are trying to highlight.
Yes. Yes. Hopefully.
Okay. Understood. The second question is on the planned CapEx and the depreciation. Let's say, what would be the CapEx number you're targeting for this year? In terms of depreciation, because there is 1/3 of accelerated depreciation, what sort of increase broadly one can expect in FY 2026 in depreciation?
See, this year we are looking at, since in FY 2025, we had planned close to INR 1,300 crore of CapEx, whereas as against that, we have done, say, close to INR 370 crore, largely because the TBM spot C2 project had not come. Also, some of the project awards got deferred. Accordingly, in line with the project award, we have also deferred our CapEx plan. In FY 2026, we are looking at a CapEx of around INR 1,100 crore. Depreciation, what we had done during this year, maybe we can look at, say, around 10%-12% growth in terms of depreciation.
Understood, sir. Just one last question. Let's say, of the total INR 37,000 crore order book plus INR 10,000 crore of L1, what proportion is right now under construction, and how do you see that changing in the next couple of quarters?
This INR 37,000 crore of order is fully under execution. This INR 10,600 crore, once we get the LOI, we are fully prepared and we will quickly mobilize. That will also come under the fold of execution.
Okay. Okay. Fine. That's all from my side, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Garvit Goyal from Avendus Analytics Advisory. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hello, Anuruddh?
Yes. Go ahead.
Good morning, sir. Congrats for gold numbers. Sir, in your opening remarks, you were talking about some temporary slowdown. Can you elaborate upon that? Because in last phone call, we were talking about closing order book of around INR 45,000 crore-INR 50,000 crore by March, citing those ongoing tenders, especially in the L1 project. We did not end up with that figure.
I want to understand the key reason for the gap versus the guided range. Were there any delays in the order conversions, and how now that situation is getting improved? Because we are still maintaining our guidance for L1 26 as we have given in last quarter. That is my first question.
I'll just explain that. In terms of our pending order book of between INR 45,000 crore-INR 50,000 crore, we are there with L1, but we are not there without L1. That is the reality. And the L1 jobs, some jobs we became L1 as early as in September, and some jobs in the last quarter. In the normal circumstances, from L1 to award, it does not take more than two months, typically.
In this case, what we have later found out is that a proper survey had not been done with respect to Nagpur Gondia in terms of land acquisition, which they submitted only on 31st of March to the government, which is under approval. Once that approval is done, that job will get awarded. With respect to Pune Ring Road, the cost has gone beyond the estimate, and which has been negotiated and closed with us, and they need to get a cabinet approval. It has gone to the cabinet approval, land acquisition process with respect to out of two Pune Ring Road projects. One project has already been completed, and the other project, they have crossed 80%. Full money is in the bank already for the land acquisition related expenditure. Those two projects, once cabinet clears, it will get awarded, and straightaway it will start.
Nagpur Gondia, that land acquisition has to be approved with the cabinet, and then it will get awarded. Rajasthan water project has been awarded now. It has been last week, not awarded, sorry. Last week, finance committee has cleared that. Anytime this week, it could come up. Pune Ring Road will come very quickly. Nagpur Gondia, once the process is approved, they will give an LOI or LOA before they come. That is what it looks. Because of that, there have been delays, which is not a normal phenomenon. Normal phenomenon is about two months from the time the L1 is declared. That is the reason we, in fact, it surprised us also. That is one of the reasons why we had factored in some amount of cost being spent there, which will count as turnover, which has not been done also.
Understood, sir.
Secondly, sir, you mentioned like 20%-25% growth for FY 2026, and medium term, we are targeting about 15% growth. Is it like we are expecting a slowdown over the upcoming years from the government spending, which is essentially leading to a CAGR, which is lower than the growth that we are expecting for next year? Is that understanding correct?
Yeah. It's staggered at 15%. Okay. That is what we have always gated. Here, we have been consistently maintaining because of jump in order book in the last year, which ultimately some of these are shifting to current year. Because of that, there will be a jump from 20%-25% from that of the earlier year. The same thing we are maintaining.
Even though there has been delay, this thing, which also will have an impact, but the base being low for the last year, we still believe that 20% plus could happen.
Understood, sir. That is it from my side, sir. Thank you. All the best.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Kunal Bhatia from Dalal & Broacha. Please go ahead.
Yeah, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And both of my questions are answered. Thank you for a detailed explanation. Sir, just one thing in terms of the guidance which you have given for the next year, 20%-25%. Sorry for just repeating on that. But what is the risk which you carry of achieving the lower end or slightly below the lower end, 20%? A, if you could also include the geopolitical risk into the thing.
We have considered the jobs coming in very quickly in the next about four weeks or so. Some of these jobs, whatever we are L1, if some of these jobs get further delayed, which is unlikely, then there could be an impact. Because we have originally planned in our original plan from the beginning of the year itself. Now, if the order comes, there is a monsoon period for three months. Effectively, the work will start in October only. That is how you will get some of these jobs turnover getting reflected in the second half of the year. Also, typically in the construction industry, any big job, first six months, the turnover always used to be goes in establishment, installations, and other things. Here, we are making the effort to see that we get the turnover done.
Therefore, if there is some delay in award of some of these jobs further, again, which is unlikely, then it could impact the turnover below 20% also growth.
Okay. You are at least confirming at this time that awards should go through because those are already delayed.
Whatever inputs what we have from the client side, we do believe that it could happen very quickly.
Okay. Sir, internationally, in terms of the project order book, any risk you see there, like what happened in the case of Bangladesh project? Any other risk do you carry for any other geography wherein you see that there could be further more delays in terms of either a project execution period or a payment period?
Currently, wherever there are geopolitical issues, there have been attempts to get into a peace situation internationally.
Therefore, we do expect, except I do not know how far it will take the Indian situation between India and Pakistan. Other than that, I believe that at the global level, wherever there are issues, this could get settled in due course of time. Also, we have started looking at newer geographies. In the current year, we could be bagging a few jobs in newer geographies in some of the Southeast Asian nations and European nations and all. Therefore, geopolitical issues are there by time, but I think it is getting addressed. We believe that the situation will be under control. In fact, last year, our international order booking was low. While our turnover has crossed to 30% of international turnover, in terms of order booking, if you look at it, the pending order book, it is about 13%-14% only international.
Therefore, we should look at increasing it to have a sustainable 30% from the international turnover. Therefore, we are expecting more international presence in the current year.
Okay. Okay. And my final question is, sir, for the Nagpur Pune Ring Road and the Rajasthan projects put together, it would be how much in terms of size?
INR 10,500 crore. INR 10,600 crore. All three put together.
Okay. Yeah. All three. Okay. Fine, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Parveen Kazi from Nawab Agro. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my question. So my first question is, I'm sorry if I missed it, but what proportion of our revenues would have come from the international geography in FY 2025?
Yeah. So Parveen, good afternoon. From international markets, we have done 31% of the total turnover.
Sure.
Secondly, a bookkeeping question. What would be our mobilization advance at the end of FY 2025?
All advances put together, it is close to INR 4,500 crore, both current and non-current.
Sure. Thanks and all the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Karan Bhatelia from MAIQ Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Good afternoon. My first question is, are there any projects proposed in the Jammu and Kashmir region which we are looking at regarding the recent water treaty going on?
I think that's a matter of confidential nature. We will not be able to disclose this. I'm sorry.
Would we be capable enough to take the project if you can just guide on that?
Of the contractors in the country, maximum work done by Jammu and Kashmir is by Akram.
Just to explain, the nature of work generally which is being talked about in public is related to dam, hydro, tunnel, and road work. We have done numerous projects of this kind. Currently, also, we have close to five dam projects with us. Capability-wise, there is no challenge.
Got it. Got it. Excellent. Second question is, how do we plan to finance the upcoming project considering we are reducing the debt-to-equity ratio and also there have been payment delays?
To fund the projects or to run the projects, we have got a consortium of bank facilities. We have got a very sizable limit with us with enough headroom. There are sizable available limits with us. We should be taking care of the growth we are talking about from the existing limit.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Parikshit Gupta from Fair Value Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much for taking my question and for such a detailed presentation and answers. I would like to again talk about the payment realization challenges. I understand that we have had several points from your end in terms of JJM, UP, MP. It will be really helpful if you could please talk about from a short and a medium-term perspective about the different authorities, how have they been performing in terms of payments. We do have context of liquidity improving. From a one, two, three-year perspective, it also helps us define the focus. If you could please spend a minute or two on this.
Parikshit, we have always talked about that what projects we take, central government agencies or some of the state when we talk about the projects, we look at whether the project has achieved financial closure. In international markets, we try to see projects those are having funding from some multilateral agencies. And some of the private parties with whom we work, we see that how their capability is. We just don't jump for any projects if some private party is offering. We have got established relationships. As far as the company's risk framework from the payment realization perspective is concerned, we very in a detailed manner, we evaluate all that. Despite that, this Jal Jeevan Mission we have talked about, these were the projects where it was largely central government-funded projects and with some small amount coming from the state government.
Central government was giving budgetary support every year from where the funds were allocated. If you look at it from the risk evaluation perspective, it was fully covered. We are also a bit surprised that even allocation in the budget and despite that there was no allocation. This was some exception. In some of the overseas projects, this geopolitical situation also, it was out of the box. Suddenly, this erupted and that has impacted the collection cycle. In overall economy, there was liquidity-related issue and the payments were not as smooth as one would have expected. I think these are a combination which has happened in a year which was having impact because of election as well.
I don't think this is going to continue because even in my recent, if I remember recent history, I have never come across all the things coming in a single-year kind of a situation. I don't think that this is going to continue and things are improving as far as the overall economy's liquidity is concerned. We are seeing that the payments are coming even in the Bangladesh project. Whatever work we are doing, we are getting paid on a regular basis. Jal Jeevan Mission, we have got sizable amount released in the month of April from Madhya Pradesh project. UP, we need to see. We are quite hopeful that situation should improve.
This is helpful.
Just to follow up, in terms of NHAI, we have for many quarters or many years even seen pressures, especially with the rising debt levels and them also deleveraging, probably over making payment realizations to the contractors. On an industry-wide level, how do you see the situation with NHAI, please?
No, NHAI, anyway, the award of jobs have come down. Also, further on, many jobs have been moved to PPP basis on VOT basis. In the last several months, it has slowed down a bit. Yesterday, there was a statement conveying that they have significantly deleveraged the thing, they have repaid some debts and other things. Still, the debt is at an elevated level. We expect slowdown in terms of award of jobs in NHAI on the EPC basis. Payment-related delay may not be there. They have been very regular.
In any case, we do not participate in NHAI-related road jobs as of now. Till such time, the qualification becomes stringent.
Understood, sir. Thank you very much for answering the questions and good luck for the current year.
Thank you. Thank you.
We have our next question from the line of Balas ubramanian from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello sir, good afternoon. Sir, what is your fund-based and non-fund-based limit as of now?
We have got a total limit of INR 20,400 crore. And INR 1,800 crore in that is the fund-based limit.
Got it. I think right now, labor issues were there and the cost also rising up, especially in India for. Is there any impact on existing projects on the margin side and how you are mitigating in upcoming projects?
Skill shortage is there for everyone. We also face skill shortages.
We have tied up with a startup for skill development at various levels, including at workman level. The skill development is on a continuous basis. We have been churning out people and sending to project sites. In spite of that, wherever labor-intensive works are there, we have issues on this thing. We mitigate as needed by sourcing local manpower and also trained manpower. This problem remains for the industry as of now.
Got it, sir. Sir, on that water-related project side, how much receivables are there? Because I heard in the industry itself that payment issues were there.
Water-related projects, we have already talked about that we have got INR 500 crore of total receivable as of 31st March. Sizable, close to INR 100 crore or so we have received in Madhya Pradesh projects. That leaves us with the outstanding with UP project only at the moment.
How do you see the things shaping up in the coming quarters, sir, for water projects?
Water projects, see, in Madhya Pradesh, we do not have any sizable outstanding. Madhya Pradesh is going to go as usual. In UP, whatever discussion we have had, we are expecting a large part of the payment getting released in the month of June. Thereafter, we will see. Once the payments are smooth, we do not foresee any difficulty. Anyway, in the current budget, the government has allocated close to INR 70,000 crore for the water-related projects.
Got it, sir.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for all. We request your continued support. Afcons is completing 65 years into 66 years.
We are hopeful of a long-term carrier of 15% on a consistent basis. Thank you all.
Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.