Good morning, and a warm welcome to Cloudberry's second Capital Markets Day, both to you attending here in person at Bergehus, and those who are with us digitally. I am Ingrid Bjørdal, Chief Compliance and Organization Officer here at Cloudberry. We put the safety of people first at Cloudberry, so I just want to let you know, those attending physically, that there are no planned fire drills here today, and there's emergency exit in the back and in front here. The energy transition is one of the biggest challenges we must solve as a society, and the task is global. We've seen extreme drought, we've seen flooding, killing people, killing crops, we've seen energy scarcity, we've seen blackouts, and we've seen energy being used as a tool in geopolitical unrest and warfare.
The development of more renewable energy is a crucial solution to these challenges. Today, you will hear more about how Cloudberry is perfectly positioned to meet these mega trends towards 2030 from our CEO, Anders Lenborg. We will continue with the insight into how we create value, and talk about our capital strategy, presented by Chief Value Officer Christian Helland. And then we will have a short break around 1:15 Central European time before we start with a deep dive into our development process, and how we have success doing it the Cloudberry way. That's presented by Chief Development Officer Charlotte Bergqvist. And finally, we will hear more about how we create synergies from the acquisition of Captiva, from Chief Technology Officer Stig Østebrøt. Before Anders Lenborg will summarize the day at the end for us.
I want to remind you that we have a Q&A function digitally. You can ask questions there, and we will have questions after each session, and also, open up for questions in, in the physical room as well. But to start off our Capital Markets Day, we have invited the energy specialist, the lead ESG specialist at Nordea, Thina Saltvedt, as our first speaker. And we hope you can put the market into context for us, and how these trends, will affect the renewable sector in the, coming years. Welcome, Thina.
Thank you, good morning, everyone. Great to see you all, and, for those of you who are following us on stream as well, good morning. I'm going to give you the broader pictures of what's happening, and this is my view. I would not say that you have to have the same view, but it's interesting to see how fast some parts are moving forward, and how slowly something else is moving. Let's have a look. What is really happening within the energy transition, and what are the big trends out there? First of all, as Ingrid pinpointed as well, we need to remember what are we trying to solve here?
Myself, I work with sustainability, and of course, climate and nature risk has, of course, influenced us or have a great impact on what we're doing this year. So, how fast are we actually moving forward on this topic or these challenges? Are we really closing in? Because it is important that political goals and the, and the business goals are aligned. And what we do see that more and more companies are actually getting a 1.5-degree goal in the businesses. But do we actually see that the polit- political side is moving, as fast? These are the Norwegian climate goals, and as you can see from the top here, the black line, that is the CO2 emissions in Norway. That, the green arrow, is pointing to the goal we had in 2020, and we were not even close.
We have approximately 6.5 years until we're going to be there, 2030, 2030, and we're still not even close. The last year, we managed to cut our emission by approximately 0.5 percentage point. We need to move much faster to reach net zero in 2050. It's important to have ambitious goals, but it's also important to follow up, because if it's a mismatch between the goals, the actual goals, and where we are going, of course, that could have an impact on where investments are going as well. Or that you see investors are waiting a bit because they are uncertain that for every election that you will see changes to the policy in behind here, and of course, that could also challenge the outline for the businesses.
So, as I was saying, we have to follow up on the goals. So, where are investments going? Are they moving faster into the renewable sector? These are the figures from the International Energy Agency, and as you can see from this chart, investments in renewables, renewable energy have increased faster than the investments within the fossil fuel sector for the last approximately four or five years. What do we need to see? Do we need to see more to actually hit the goals that I've talked about, the 2050 goals? We need to see much more, and these, of course, are nominal investments. What we experience now is that costs are increasing, inflation is rising. We also see delays in many of the input factors that needs to be used.
So, the costs are a challenge. Also, the access to what we need to build the infrastructure to build renewable energy is, of course, challenging as today. And that is, of course, something which is caused by the corona crisis and stop in the deliveries, but also of inflation and the unfortunate war in Ukraine. If you move into renewables, and these are figures from the Bloomberg New Energy Finance. As you can see from this picture, and this is global, the yellow is renewable energy investments. The green one are electric transportation. We like to think here in Norway that we are very good at investing in electric transportation, and we are, but the rest of the world are coming as well, especially China. Especially China has invested a lot in electric transportation, also small cars.
So, the green areas you're seeing here, which is now almost half of the investments within the energy transition, so almost half of the investments are in the electric transportation side. So, even though it's increasing on the renewable energy side, it's increasing faster on electric transportation. Of course, it's good that it's increasing fast, but we need to see both of them moving up even faster. The reason why you don't see anything green here in 2023 is not that it's no investments in electric transportation, it's just that it's updated once a year, so it will be green as well. What's the reason behind these increases in investments? Of course, we see, as I talked about, we see changes in climate policy. We have seen CO2 prices rising.
That is the most efficient tool politicians have, increasing CO2 prices, but it's not enough, and they're not high enough. But they have increased quite substantially, the last five years, but not close enough to drive the transition fast enough. So, what I found here is IRENA, and this shows basically the. At least it's trying to show, the falling costs from the different renewable sector. To the left-hand side, you see solar power, and to the right, far right, its onshore wind, and offshore wind is the second, from the right. So, you see that, the costs are decreasing, and that, of course, helps as well. So, when we're seeing, looking at nominal investments, of course, the cost side, the amount you get for every money you put in, will of course increase.
What's happening in this country? Every day, we read in the newspaper how Norway is going to be leading in carbon capture and storage, hydrogen, offshore wind, you name it, maybe solar power. Is it really moving fast? Well, according to the media, it is. What happened to the investment figures? Because if you remember the color codes from the previous slide, the green is still electric transport and the yellow is still renewable. So, what we see in this country is that we read a lot about it, but we haven't really seen that investments have moved in so far. So, if we are going to take a big part in this green transition, I think we need to see these figures going up as well. What does this reflect then?
Well, to the right, right-hand side, this is the market share of new electric car market share of new car sales, which were approximately 80% last year. 80%, or that's the start of this year, but approximately last year as well, which is quite fantastic. But so, this investment figures to the left reflects that picture very well. What do we actually invest in? And the red part here is oil and gas sector. So, in this country, we increase investment in oil and gas, and in the increase in investments in renewables have gone down for the last few years. So, this shows the same pattern. We are still an oil and gas nation, and this is the oil and that's the way where we're going.
But if we want to be part of the energy transition and take a big share there, maybe we need to reshuffle a bit of the access to both the capital, of course, but the resources we have. And I'll come back to resources. So, these are some of the areas we hear a lot of talk about, but we haven't really seen that the investments have moved up this far. So, what needs to be done then to build new businesses? And this is a very easy way of showing it, or a very simplistic way of showing how we build a value chain. But of course, we need land, we need area, space, or if it's on land, or if it's in the ocean. So, access to land is important.
If it's on land or if it's in ocean, we need access. Then we need access to power. Power is important to build new industries. Some, of course, new industries are power generation, but some industries need to use power. So, it could be anything from more efficient power systems to more access to power in itself, or reuse of the power we do have access to. Then we need manpower and competence. Do we really have the competence we need? Do the universities actually educate the competence we need? And what happened with the people who's working within the oil and gas sector today? How can we reuse that competence to build a green in industries? We need infrastructure, because we could build as many windmills we want to, but we actually need to get use of the power.
And then we, of course, need infrastructure to be able to use what we built, to get it out to the market where it's needed. Then it's input factors, and we have seen that for the last few years. It's difficult sometimes to get access to input. So, should we produce it ourselves? Do we need to produce it ourselves? Who could we work with in our value chain to be more sure that we have access to, and we are more sure about prices on the input factors going forward? And then, often we talk very much about the supply side, which I've done now.
But we do need customers as well, and we do forget that sometimes, because we talk a lot about how we're going to get all these five parts of this value chain, call it in yellow here, get this, going. But look at hydrogen, for example. Well, now the first ferry is actually going. But that was this year, we had the first hydrogen ferry in the world, and this, this was in Norway. We still have to input hydrogen from Germany. But of course, it's difficult to start building something, producing something, if you don't have somebody, at the other end who could buy the stock from you. So, we need to be sure that the total value chain, the supply and the demand side, is there almost at the same time.
Then, it's much easier as well to get access to capital. Myself, working for a bank, I hear this quite often, it's difficult to get access to capital. But if it's a question, if you are to, or we are... If you're very uncertain about any part of this value chain, it is, of course, difficult to get access to capital because why should you invest in something that might be delayed because you don't have areas to produce it, or you don't have the right competence? Then you think it will be delayed, and it probably will, or costs will be increasing. So, this is why I've been focusing on the total value chain. We need to be sure that it's there and it's moving forward in almost the same speed.
So, what's happening on the power side? Of course, high prices do help. No doubt about that. So high—these are the prices on electricity and natural gas from last up to now. So of course, when prices are moving up this much, it tells you a lot of things. It tells you that you need to invest more to get more energy. It also tells you that you have to reduce consumption. And it tells you that you need to look at other sources of energy to use.
But this was, of course, a very special picture, but it does tell, tell us that we could experience volatile prices going forward as well, because we have enough power at the moment, but we do not know for certain that it will be there in the years to come to build new industries. What does it look like at the moment then? These are the water levels, or the degrees of filling in Norway, the hydropower. And actually, at the moment, it doesn't look bad at all because it is at the median, so it doesn't look bad at all. Although, this is for Norway altogether.
This year, it's actually turned around the opposite way, so it's more a lack of power in the north, higher prices in the north, and a lot of power in the east, southern regions. So, it's actually completely different from what we saw last year. But of course, having this in the years to come needs, probably, need a lot of investments, both in infrastructure, in the net, and also in more power. On the gas side, well, the storage, EU storage, looks very good at the moment because they are at 90%, which was the level they're supposed to reach in November. So, that is comforting before we're going into the winter.
But of course, there are a lot, still a lot of political tension around what will happen to the power supply and access to energy. So of course, we cannot say that we will not experience higher prices in the, in the next winter. What we know is we got more experience to handle these situations. But do we have access to not power? So, expertise. We're seeing that the engineers are have to take different, different views, and think about different factors now when they're planning, and that is something we've learned from the changes we see in climate, the extreme weather we have seen for the last few years. How do we actually think about where we put power stations, where we build it, where do we build new businesses?
Wind power are saying if you're going to build a lot more wind power in this country, at least, we do not have the manpower and the competence we need to build it. So, this is a kick then to the universities. We need more people with competence within the renewable sector. Of course, the ESG is still there if we look at the trends. Environmental, social, and governance factors has. It's been a lot of criticism lately, and of course, some of it should be discussed, because it is, of course, difficult to measure many of the E and the S and the Gs. I think we have just seen the start of it, but it's important that we've raised these questions. Why is it this big, or all these discussions coming?
More than 150 different companies are actually offering to sell you ESG ratings of companies. So, if you have a company, you can risk that you have 150 different ratings, ESG ratings of your company. Of course, that doesn't help you really. It's creating more confusion than it actually helps you to get to, to take good decisions. So, this is some of the problems we're looking into. And also, what does it measure? Because these 150 different companies who are offering these ESG measures or ratings, some of them are actually weighting the different, the E and the S and the G in different. So different weight on the E and the S and the G. So, we need to know how to weight them.
They're also using different data to measure the same thing, and sometimes they don't even measure the same things. So welcome, we have to fix this. But it is important. So even 10 years from now, maybe we won't call it E and S and G, but I think what is important is that we actually include this in the analysis, because it's so important to measure the risk around the S, the social, and the environmental, and the climate, climate risk that we're seeing now. So, it's here to stay. The regulations, we're moving from climate only to nature, and it will have an impact on cost, it will have an impact on revenues, and of course, it will have an impact on reporting and disclosure.
I know for many companies, it's a bit, a bit of a hassle, and some even have employed a lot of new people to be able to report on all they have to report on. But it is important to trying to get the best measure of the risk we have, because we didn't do that good enough before. We have learned, and now we're trying to do it, and this will, of course, developed. What we're trying to avoid is greenwashing, of course. We have to avoid greenwashing, so we could be trustable. Open and trustable, that was the finance business want to be. What are the new trends then at the end? Social sustainability, we have started with this, but how do we measure it? What should we measure? Biodiversity and circular economy.
Of course, when you look at the social part, we're seeing more laws. These are Åpenhetsloven, which came last year. But of course, we will see much more laws going into equality, how you treat people, human rights. What I think will really be challenging forward is the laws coming around or when we're going to include nature risk. So, a good pressure to get this through the system is, of course, public, and public demand, because... We have seen that more of nature risk and climate risk is now part or it's natural part of deals that the public are having. But I think what we really should look into going forward is this nature risk, especially when it comes to land.
We discussed it a bit before, actually we started here. But think about it, because we have to preserve 30% of the land, both on land and oceans, so the areas. We have to reinstall 30%, go back, make it back to what it was before we start building there or before we start doing something. And then 40% is more open. Who's going to decide what we could do with this 40%? Is it the government? Is it the local community? Which business should they rank at the top? What kind of businesses do we want to have? So, these kinds of questions we need to know, and we need to know them quite soon, because this will cause a lot of conflicting interests going forward.
We need good guidelines, so we don't build up more conflicting situations that we have seen already many places around the world. And of course, in our mission to do something good, we have to remember that we shouldn't create new problems by trying to solve the problems we are doing now. And these are from, from this is electric bicycles from China. We're seeing the same electric cars graveyards in China starting to build up, and probably other places around the world as well. So, we need to be sure that we also create a circular business loop, so we're trying to avoid these problems. How do we actually produce, design our products? Do we design them to be reused, and how do we put the right prices on that?
With this, I would say thank you so much for your time.
Thank you, Thina. That was insightful and putting the renewable energy industry into context for us. Before you unmic yourself, we have, I think, one or two questions that have come in. One thing... one question is about the barriers that you see with the Scandinavia and Norway in particular, becoming the superpower within renewable energy, and the way we could possibly solve that. Do you have some comments to that?
Well, I think one is what I tried to show you as well. We need to be sure that all parts of the, of the total value chain is there. Because as I said, you need- if you're going to build, for example, a wind farm, the way to get down the cost is, of course, to be able to scale it. So, first, you try it, and then you scale it. But if you don't have any areas to scale it on, what do you do? So, I think you need, we need to be sure that all parts of this value chain is there now, if you want to be part of this, this competition.
So, it's not necessarily only the money that is necessary, but you need to be sure that everything around it is there at the time to be able to compete as well. But of course, it's challenging, what we're seeing happening in the U.S. with the Inflation Reduction Act and also REPowerEU. Of course, to have big subsidies come, or big subsidies program coming in. But as I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be subsidies, it could be other things around it. So, we have the right competence to build this. We have the right, and we have areas to build it. So yeah.
But the political, difficult situation that we've seen in Norway in particular, what do you think about that going forward, and the solution for renewable energy in terms of the political situation?
Well, I think it's an election now, so I think, well, hopefully, hopefully what we, what we need to see is a broad, broad settlement, you know, between both the left and right-hand sides of, of the political aspects. Because we can't have, what is difficult if, if you have, see changes in the politics every fourth year. So, we need to have, a broad-based settlement of what we're going to do in the future, and that is why we're hoping that we will see much more of that across the political parties, so we have long-term views on this, then we can build good and competitive industries.
Great.
Hmm.
Thank you for that.
Cheers.
With that said, we continue our program, and the next speaker is our CEO and founder, Anders Lenborg, who will talk about the business model of Cloudberry, the strategy towards 2030, and how we are perfectly positioned for the megatrends we've just heard about. Warm welcome, Anders.
Thank you, Ingrid. Thank you, Thina. Hi, everyone. Nice to see so many of you here and also attending live. After listening to Thina, I think we will be best busy for many years. It's always good to get a reminder of where we are and what we are facing. We can't solve all the problems that we heard, but I think Cloudberry can have an important role of solving some of it creating new projects and creating new renewable energy to help this transition that we understand has to happen. So, thank you to Thina, and as Ingrid said, I will take you through some slides for the next half an hour.
And also here, you have the chance to ask questions live or online. I would start with, before we go into Cloudberry and our platform and project, I would like to start off with the idea behind Cloudberry. Because we believe it's three things that's essential to build the company and build a power producer. You need the people, you need the competence, you need the people with the right mindset. We have not been around for a long time, but we need to get the volume and the business up and running as fast as possible.
So, the first thing we need is the platform and the people, and I think today we could honestly say that we have both in place. We have skilled people covering everything from greenfield project development to operations. The second thing you need is the projects. And in Cloudberry, we believe in having a mix. We have our exclusive in-house developed project portfolio, where we have no competition. This is our exclusive project portfolio. We don't need to go out and be part of structured processes that we have to compete with others. But we also need to use the market and opportunities when we see them.
So, building Cloudberry, we have used a combination of exclusive in-house developed pipeline, but also done structural deals and M&A, using M&A opportunities in the market. And last but not least, we of course need the funding. It's a capital-intensive business, so you won't get anything done if without the funding. And we are very lucky to have supportive Norwegian savings banks with us. It's been with us from day one. And together with our cash flow, generated by the producing assets, now almost 1 TWh in production, is the funding of the projects. And that gives us a fantastic flexibility.
And as we heard, Thina mention, it's a volatile market, and I've been around here for more than 20 years in the energy market, and it's very volatile. We had 2 EUR power price when we listed in 2020 in Norway. We have seen 500 EUR power price. We have seen constraints in the projects, and we have seen all kinds of wars and other effects around us that has created some headwind. But because we have designed Cloudberry as we have, we have the flexibility to always focus where we can see that we get the most accretive returns. So, that's a little bit about the idea behind Cloudberry.
And with that, we look upon ourselves as the junction box. So, we see that, to develop projects, you need to be the junction box between the capital, the projects, and the local stakeholders. So, development is local, and we will learn more about this later from Charlotte. But it's... the more we worked on the portfolio, the more we know that this is the right thing to do, to be this junction box. Because some years back, you could say, "I want to build a wind farm because I want to produce renewable energy." That's not enough anymore. Now, we need to do more than just add renewable energy, and we have many examples of how we do that.
It's very important to understand that we won't get anywhere without understanding local stakeholders. We know that in Norway also, it has been a big focus over the last years to give more back to the local community. But the local community has also much more to say when it comes to giving permits to projects. So, this is what I think makes Cloudberry unique, is that we have always thought about being this junction box between the capital, the project, and all the local stakeholders.
And I think that has shown us many times that if we do this the right way, the word will spread, and those who are in that project will, will often hear about it, and we, we get incoming calls. And we get projects that are, that people have been dead against, then we get them to, to be positive and even, you know, helping us develop the projects. And that is, a unique, feature with, with Cloudberry. And, and it's, it's, it's not possible without, the team. So, we have a team that's, that's, very much driven by, by, our purpose, and this is, value-driven, and we do this. We want to be a part of the solution.
We want to be giving our energy and our hours at work to the energy transition and to a more sustainable future. Together with a strong culture, we have KISS as one of our main slogans, Keep Things Simple. It's important. We are a small team, and we need to stay focused, hands-on, and keep it simple, and with that, I think we have also proven that we can deliver on also very complicated projects. We are powered by dedicated people, and I would say that we have also shown that we deliver on our goals. For those who have followed us for some years, you will recognize this slide.
It's becoming more and more dots on our map, which we are happy to see. But, for those who don't know Cloudberry very well, this is the platform that we have built up. Why the Nordics? The Nordics has some of the best resources when it comes to renewable power in Europe. We have unique hydropower assets, and in Norway, we have unique resources. We have also some of the best wind resources in Europe. I think the wind farm producing mostly every year in Europe is up in Norway. And we have also a lot of competence.
We have been building hydropower here for more than 100 years, and we have also wind expertise in Scandinavia for more than 30 years. So, we want to take advantage of those resources that we have. And in that, we have built up a platform where we can develop the projects from greenfield assets from the very beginning until they are in operation. We believe it's a unique position to have, not only being a developer or a infrastructure producing platform, but to have everything in-house. So, it also gives us the flexibility. We see that we get a nice uptick when we develop a project and get it into a permit.
We get a nice uptick. We have shown through sales or farm downs that we get very well paid for the job. It's not capital intensive at all. It's in-house developed project, but it takes time. So development portfolio is something that we're going to focus more on also over the next years, to build a pipeline and a backlog of a much bigger size than we have today. But we also want to have the balance to keep the assets, to have the long-term cash flow from the producing assets, to finance new projects and to finance the company. And it's also, as we see today, a lot of technology development when it comes to renewable assets.
To have the project, but also the producing assets, it's something that we believe strongly in, and we can all further develop with the new technology that we will also hear more about later with Stig. And of course, we have also now with the Captiva the operations of our assets in-house. We manage, of course, our own assets, but I think that's probably 15% of what we manage. So, the rest we manage for third parties. So, we have a broad base for asset management that we also learn from and take advantage of. And as you can see, we have a portfolio that is a mix between early phase projects.
We move them into permitted projects, to construction, and also in operation, and it's also divided on now Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. We have offices in all three countries. In Sweden, we have even three. And this is local hubs that is important for us because then we also get the network where we are building and developing our projects. So, to be in Eskilstuna, for example, where we have an office, building now two wind farms in the area and developing several more projects in the area, it's key because then you, you're there, you know, you're there, you can reach the stakeholders very easily. So, this is how it looks today.
We have also taken out some examples because it's interesting to be able to show you that the track record is a proven track record. It's also some examples here that is very different and both in time and size and technologies, but we will also have shown what the team and the competence that we have can manage. So, we have Forte here, which is a early phase hydropower, 14 hydropower plants in operation, where we teamed up with the Swiss-based investor.
We couldn't do this on our own, but based on long-term relationship with the Swiss, we managed to get a hold of a very interesting small-scale hydropower portfolio. And it's also a very good match with our 100% owned hydropower plants. We have a lot of hydropower plants in the south of Norway, southwest, where you get a early spring and early production. But in this portfolio, you have a lot of hydropower plants that get most of their water from the glaciers. So, this one comes much later in the season, but through the summer, it has a very high and stable production.
It's a lot of nitty-gritty details on these hydropower plants, but together, we have managed to create a stable production of the hydropower through that season. Odal Vind is a very different animal. It's what was 160, or it is 160 MW wind farm. Also, too large for us, but together with the local utility and also the one pension fund in Norway, we managed to build this on a very short time. We had some deadlines that we had to watch out, and we managed to move into this project and deliver it on time.
Reie is a typical example of a hydropower project, where we sat down with more than 30 owners of the water, the river, and we had also other local stakeholder issues with the local businesses and so forth, local landowners. There is a lot of issues around the project, but we managed to tweak it and design a project, so it's actually going to be benefiting the river and the fishing and the local community. So, we are now handling in our permits in not too long. Hån, in-house developed project from A to Z. We have developed it.
Our manager, Sebastian, has been on it for years, and it was a project, and as Thina also mentioned, a project is one thing, the infrastructure is another. It doesn't matter if you have a project, if you don't have a market connection. In Sweden, on the west side of Sweden, there is not so much grid. At least, the capacity is not very big. So, in this case, we applied for an interconnector to Norway. So, it's actually a Swedish project, but where the power produced is then transferred to Norway and sold into the Norwegian market. So, that's a creative solution for a project without a grid connection.
On the Odin transaction, it was a long process where we both wanted to create a Nordic IPP, and we wanted to have a Nordic platform. I think we spent almost two years to close this. It's an interesting story because of our... That's our market entry into Denmark. We get the people on the ground, local. This is on, in Jutland, on the west coast of Denmark. We have now 51 turbines in production, 47 of them in DK1, Jutland, which is the highest price area of the Nordic countries. We have a producing portfolio, but in addition to that, we also entered into a development agreement, where we develop new projects together.
Skovgaard, our partner in Denmark, has developed wind for more than 30 years and developed solar project for several years. So, they have a long and important competence and experience with those kinds of projects . And now we are looking into both new solar and new wind projects, and also hybrid projects with our partner in Denmark, and to execute on them when they are ready to be taken into the portfolio. And as I've mentioned, in addition to the project portfolio, it is a lot of experience. And for those who don't know that the Jutland area is a key infrastructure area for the future of European renewables.
You have the offshore wind farms in the North Sea. You have several of them are linked to the Jutland area. You have infrastructure, hydrogen infrastructure going to Germany. You have the Viking cable to the U.K. So, this is going to be a key area for hydrogen, ammonia, and renewable energy in the years to come. There's a lot of large players there, but there's also room for Cloudberry and our partner in Denmark. So, this is just to show that we can deliver on many different types of projects, but I think the key is that this is more or less being local. That is the most important aspect with these projects.
Yeah, and then, when we started, what's the most important thing when you start a company? That's to deliver. And I think this is something that we did here a couple of weeks ago. What did we say in 2020? So, the left side here is what we said when we listed at the Merkur Market in 2020, and how does it look in Q2 2023? And the left side here is, it's a copy-paste of what we said in 2020, and that's interesting to see that we have actually delivered on building a large pipeline and backlog. Yes, we have. You know, we want to grow on opportunities that we see arising.
We had 2 turbines in production in 2020. We have 130 turbines spinning now. We want to create that scalable platform. Yes, we have built the team. We are, I think we are more or less done with that job. And we wanted also to have a sizable production portfolio to be able to generate cash flow. And at that time, we had 21 GWh in production, and we have now 736. So, we have also delivered on building a production company. And we have also used the capital market. We have raised around NOK 3 billion from the market over the last 3 years.
It's very satisfying to see that we actually deliver on what we say that we will do. This is how we look today. This is our portfolio. Many of you know it from earlier presentations. We try to move the projects into production. Every year, we have new projects coming in. As we speak, we have three projects under construction, two wind farms in Sweden, SE3, Sundby being the most mature, and we have also the hydropower plant under construction in Norway, almost finished. We will see that they will... Both those assets will start to do some test production later this year and be in full production next year.
And those are the three light blue here. And as you can see, we have more permitted projects coming over the next years. Lotta will get back to the details around this development projects later. And we have also used a lot of time de-risking the portfolio, because back in 2020, we started out with hydropower in Norway. Hydropower, we have seen, it's a volatile. You can have dry years, wet years, you have big differences in the different price areas, and so forth. And as Thina said, the last year it was dry in the south, now it's the north. The prices are very volatile. So, we thought, well, we need to combine it with wind power. That has a totally different production profile.
And also, through the years, we have spread out on different price areas and different countries. So, the countries are actually an important thing when talking about de-risking. I would say that political risk is our biggest risk, and we can see how fast that can change here in Norway. And to be able to have a development portfolio and a production portfolio in all the three countries is de-risking our portfolio quite significantly, and also on the different technologies. And today, we have spoken a lot about solar and hydro, but we have also our first permit for, or application for, a solar farm in Norway.
We have also project in Sweden and Denmark. So solar will also be part of this portfolio going forward and making it even more stable. So, here is just an example of, you know, the hydropower producing most in the spring, summer, and autumn, and the wind is more dense, and it's blowing more in the winter. So, we have a different profile on the wind side, and together, this creates a stable production throughout the year, which is also important when we are talking about the hedging or entering into PPAs. We have a mix of assets and a mix of technologies that gives us stable production.
This is not, it's not a coincidence that we have put the projects where they are, where they are. We saw early that, you know, Norway, 10 years ago, didn't have a lot of export capacity. Sweden had limited export capacity, but something was happening, and over the last 10 years, they've built out, you know, a lot of export capacity. Today, we can export the whole one-year production of Norway. We can export through the new interconnectors. So, we thought, well, that also will affect the price level in Norway and in Sweden. We will import European prices. We therefore focused on the price areas that is south of Norway, south in Sweden, DK1 in Denmark, all in and connected to Europe.
Through the NSL interconnector to the U.K., we have Germany, the Netherlands, SwePol to Poland. We have the new cable to Germany from Sweden, and now the Viking Link coming from Denmark to the UK, opening first of January. This will all be interconnected, and it will be a different market driver than what we have had historically. And nobody believes that we will be back to the low power prices that we historically have had in Norway, but we will have a different level going forward. Yes. So, that was a lot about Cloudberry and our portfolio and how we de-risk it and what we think around building the portfolio going forward. It's covering here our strategy.
We saw earlier this year that we will reach the 2025 goals that we set in 2020. So, we start a strategy process earlier this year and wanted to look towards 2030. We will still have the same purpose as we have today. We want to be a power producer. We want to do it the Cloudberry way. We believe in that we have done a lot of things right focusing on sustainability. We have sustainability in the at core of everything we do on execution that we actually deliver on these projects and that we are the local partner. As you can see here on the right side, we will continue to...
To do both deliver, develop, and own generating assets. Also, operation of those assets with a focus on ESG and sustainability, and the corporate funding and the solid balance sheet. So, it's much of what we have done so far, but the new thing is that we also wanted to tell the market our ambitions. And it's a long 7 years until 2030, so much can happen. But we have had a low, mid, and high case that we have discussed, and this is the numbers that we have landed on. And it's basically a tripling of our production portfolio. It's also a 3 TWh of permitted projects in this mix.
We want to continue to build the digital platform that Stig will tell us more about. Connecting more power plants to the platform. Today, it's almost 500 power plants to the platform, and it's a very interesting management tool that we use and many with us use for our assets. And we will do this with, you know, focusing on profitable growth. That's important. We have some, as we heard, Thina also mentions, there is some difficult times, some headwind.
But we can focus on the development project, for example, where we see that we can develop for 6 NOK and sell for 9 NOK per kWh. That's still a very good business for Cloudberry. So, this flexibility is something that we will continue to focus on, and also that we do build these projects and the portfolio with the most important thing is the profitable growth going forward. So, I think that was almost my time. We have probably got some questions, but yeah. Thank you so much.
We do have some questions for you, Anders. One question that's come in digitally is about Finland. Are you exploring opportunities in Finland? No, I'm sorry, it's not Finland, it's Finnmark. It could also be Finland. Maybe you should answer both. And if so, what are the biggest challenges for the project development? Finnmark is the question.
Finnmark is the question. No, it's of course Finnmark has come up, but then we are all the way up north, in north of Norway, has come up as an interesting area, where we have had some debates in Norway of the electrification of the gas sector and so on. But we feel that, being having most of our projects south of Trondheim and being much more focused on the price areas in the south, we have so far not used any time on Finnmark. And I think we are going to focus also on the south, going forward.
When it comes to Finland, I think yes, that's an interesting question because we have looked at that, and we have had some dialogues, and we will continue to look at Finland as a, of course, the next natural place to go. But we also, like now, just entered into Denmark, and so we will stay focused on that for the time being. Yeah.
So that was a bonus answer to the question. Just give me a sign if there are any questions here physically. Yes, we'll move over here.
Thank you. Anders Rosen, SEB. What is Cloudberry, Cloudberry's, competitive advantages?
Yeah, I would say that we are now positioned with a project portfolio throughout Scandinavia with the local hubs throughout Scandinavia. And the platform is established, so we have the platform, we have the people, and we will now just accelerate the development of new projects. So, I think that we have the position we have in the market, and now we have also proven track record, would be the most important. And of course, the funding, which Christian will tell you more about.
Yeah, but also the local network. I think that's... We started with a few people, and we see also with Denmark, we see how many deals and projects we're getting through the network with Charlotte and in, also in Sweden. And this is, this word of mouth, yes, we're executing on the projects, and this normally also opens up new projects when they see how it's actually getting built. It's not a lot of developers are talking about projects and not actually executing on them, and that's, we think is a good factor to get into new acreage. So, to get the local acceptance from local owners that they see, okay, it's more than talk, they actually go and do it. Because the local owners get paid first.
Normally, they get, on wind, they get paid 4% of the revenue when the farm is producing.... so, they normally need to make sure that it is actually producing, otherwise they've wasted a lot of time with the land.
We have a question also regarding price hedging. We're fully merchant, basically, now, Anders, what-
Yeah
... do you see, in terms of PPAs?
Yes, that's correct. A good question. We are 95% merchant, meaning that we sell the power on Nord Pool, on the intra-day and day-ahead market. You can have different approaches to the hedging and PPA, and our approach have been let's wait with that. Let's build a producing portfolio of a certain size. We want to de-risk by if we enter into a PPA and not the other way around. You can easily be caught in a difficult situation if you do a hedging with a volume risk on a single asset or some minor assets. So, we have been waiting with the PPAs, but going forward, I think we will.
We have also some ongoing discussions with the industrial off takers in some of the attractive price areas. Then, of course, we need to balance out if we want to take volume risk or not, but you will probably see us doing more PPAs going forward than we have done historically.
Thank you. We have a question here.
Hi, Zack Ho from Jefferies. I think part of the value from Cloudberry, you know, is having this flexibility and agility to react to market opportunities.
Mm.
I was just wondering that, you know, I, I'm sure some of this is driven by your operational cash flows from your production business. So, when you look at your low, mid, and high scenarios and talk about this book equity targets, right? How much contingency have you built in terms of volume and price risk going forward? As we know, like, you know, there's quite a lot of volatility, as you mentioned.
Mm.
What kind of basically contingency have you built into this plan going forward? Thanks.
Yeah, I don't know if Christian, you want to-
Yes, it's a quite complex question to answer.
I think you need to come in here.
We basically, we say. Here we say, "Okay, parts of this growth will come from our organic," and as you say, from cash flow, farm downs of our, of our development portfolio. We also say that we will develop our in-house 3 TWh. So, parts of this, about 2 TWh, we expect to sell down or sell out and keep 1 TWh. So, we have 1 TWh producing today. We use 1 TWh from our in-house, and we have inorganic growth of 1 TWh.
Mm.
That's in the big numbers behind the strategy. As we're saying, this is our ambitions. We know things move up and down, and we've seen the up and downs just over the two last years. But these are kind of the large figures behind it, and we can emphasize a little more on the details and parameters behind it, maybe in the lunch, but-
Quick follow-up. Like, when you talk about 3 terawatt-hours, I thought about, like, the analyzed production figures that you share in presentations on. So, like, you know, you share each project has, like, analyzed figure of, like, X gigawatt-hours. Like, are you assuming that level going forward?
Yeah
... every year on average?
Yeah.
Okay.
That level is about the same as we do. We always said around 50/50 debt equity level. Yeah. Yep.
I think we move right into Christian's presentation, so that's good.
But we're not letting you go.
Oh, okay
... right away, Anders.
Okay.
We have a question. I think almost a year ago, we got the tax proposal that kind of shocked the whole renewable energy sector.
Yes.
It's still a bit up in the air.
Yeah.
The political situation is obviously influencing this, and we're going straight into election. What do we know about the proposal, and what's happening next?
Yeah. That's... Thank you for bringing it up. No, we had this proposal last September that heavily hit Cloudberry's share price and, especially Odal, our large wind farm project. And that it - that we have had this uncertainty has been a big drawback for us and also for the renewable sector in Norway. The sector has been very clear on what we need if we want to further develop the renewable assets in Norway. We need stable framework. We need, you know, a broad basis from the government that we can operate within, that we know that this is the framework for years to come.
We can't have any tax suggestions like they proposed that is going to hit the project that we already delivered and taken the risk. I think hopefully we will have the answer. They have postponed it once, but I hope now when we get the budget, start of October, that they will comment on at least the most important issues of the proposal.
Mm.
So hopefully we will, we will see that they have listened to the industry, and they will leave the ground rent tax for wind, especially.
Okay, so still uncertainty, but we stay hopeful, right?
Yeah, we stay hopeful.
I think just to comment on is the reactiveness.
Yeah
... that we are concerned about. It's not actually the ground tax per se-
Mm
... going forward, but this,
Reactive, tax.
Reactive tax.
Yeah.
... There's one more question. We need it for our digital audience.
Reactive.
Thank you. Thomas from SpareBank 1 Markets. Should we expect to see divestments on a more regular basis?
Well, I can say that we have farmed down on some of the offshore shallow water projects. So on the shallow water projects, and Lotta can talk more about it, but there we see ourselves more as a developer, where we can develop the project, but we are not a long-term owner. On the hydro, it's also something that we like to keep the hydro assets, but we also want to show the market the fundamental values we create when we develop these projects. So, it's. I'm not saying it's a one-off, but I think we are, you know, happy for the time being. Yeah.
Is it most important reaching the NOK 30 per share in book equity value by 2030 or 3 TWh of operational portfolio?
Well, profitability is always trumping growth.
Yeah.
That's clear for us.
Mm.
So of course, we see the company also becoming valuable, having a larger size, we believe. So both are important. But in the short to mid-term, profitability is what we spend our time on. Yeah.
Can you comment? You might be coming back to it a bit later, but you commented a bit on the Odin transaction, seeing that you're divesting hydro assets at kind of high multiples compared to kind of where transaction multiples have been historically, but you also buy kind of a wind asset here, which probably is not easy to just translate into current operational production. But it seems to be kind of in the expensive range of wind transactions. Why did you do the Odin transaction?
Yeah, I just... I can just start off.
Yeah.
It's a strategically very important move for Cloudberry. As I said, the idea was to create a Nordic independent power producer. We believe in being Nordic, not too looking at too many markets or too broad. So, some focus, but still divided on different countries and technologies and so on. To move into Denmark, we want to have a partner. We want to have a partner that could be Cloudberry on the ground. We had so many of the same values and ideas. So, the partner there was important, and we wanted to get the immediate access to production because of the power prices in DK1 is the highest in Europe.
It will stay high over the next years, as if is what we at least believe. And to get that generating assets, 51 turbines, it's it would be taking a long time to develop it. But that's just half of the story. The other half is the development of new projects and to be together on developing these projects. And some of them are standalone wind farms, solar farms, or a combination. But some of these projects are also linked to Power-to-X, especially hydrogen and also.
Ammonia
... ammonia.
Mm.
It's a good way for us to learn from the production side, to learn the demand side, and to understand what this hydrogen is , you know, the hydrogen revolution in a way, demand of our – of us, as power producers.
Yeah.
So, it's a strategically very important step for us to enter Denmark with a partner like Skovgaard.
We also see the value. There we own the land, and we think a lot of these projects to repower in the future, or you have already the land for new renewable is quite important because we, as Thina mentioned, the areas to build renewables, it requires a lot of areas, solar especially. So, to have control of the acreage, we think is strategically important, and also the owners of nearby acreage, which is our partner has developed over the last 30 years, which is extremely difficult to copy for other competitors.
Mm. Yeah.
We have received a few more questions online, Anish. One question regarding the PPAs. On what price levels do you see you can lock in PPAs at the moment in the Nordics?
We have one locked in from EUR 140 so. No, I think that was a five-year EUR 140 PPA. That would, that would be nice if we were on that level. We are not on that level. It, it depends very much on which price area you are going to, to have the power. So, it's a big difference between DK1 and for example, SE2. So, it's a difficult question, but I think in general you will see that project development financing or project would be needing the PPA to, to get the project done, and, and will be very volatile to or, sorry, be very vulnerable to the price level.
We have developed a project on our balance sheet, and we would think different when it comes to who we are entering into with a PPA. And that's why I also said that it's an industrial offtaker that's probably our offtaker because in general, they have a different pricing.
... but I can't say exactly the level in each price area today. That's difficult. Yeah.
Okay. I think we'll round up with one final question. There are more questions in the chat, but I think they will be more appropriate after we've heard Christian's presentation. I'm just gonna ask you one question before I move into the audience.
Okay.
What about energy storage?
Yeah.
Will Cloudberry invest in energy storage?
We do have. That's something that's important to mention. When we enter into land lease agreements, we enter also into, for example, in Sweden, we have a lot of land lease agreements with wind projects, where we also have the opportunity to develop solar and storage. We see also that in our new solar permit applications, we do also apply for storage, batteries. And we see also that as an opportunity in both Sweden and Denmark. So, yes, you will see storage, but it's more connected to the single assets. Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. It's Helene here from DNB Markets. I have a question related to return targets. How do you see them developing for typical buyers of your projects, such as infra funds, in light of the rising interest rates?
No, I think that's actually quite a lot of what I will be talking about coming up.
Good question.
We can obviously talk about it, but we've seen obviously a big mismatch between public pricing and private pricing, ref our recent hydro sale also, and the willingness to pay for what we see as well-positioned renewable assets. So, this remains a very, I would say, interesting bias in the market, where you have a public market, and that seems to have very high return expectations, or thinking more short term, and the more strategic private money, like infra money, that seems to be willing to pay quite significant or historically high prices for these assets. So, we see a mix here in these two.
Yes, and how do you navigate when setting your return targets?
Yeah
... in this environment?
No, so we'll come back to it, but we haven't changed much on the return expectations. We still have very high return expectations on our development phase, where we focus a lot of the in-house team and our people. And we said historically about 15%, and we also said on producing level, 6%-9%. We haven't spent a lot of time on the board on this, but these are still the parameters we have when we make investment decisions and move projects. But I'll get back to it a little bit more because this is quite an important topic.
It seems like the audience is ready for your-
Yeah
... session, Christian.
Okay.
Thank you, Anders. I think we can conclude that with the right people and the strategy, we need to dive into how we create value-
Yeah
... and how we're going to finance the company to reach these targets. So, the next speaker is Christian Helland, our Chief Value Officer.
Yes. So, we start with value. Now, so I think for us, it's quite important, as Anders said, to also dive back. The company is three years old, and we need to show, okay, what did we say? What did we do? And from day one, Cloudberry has been focused on value creation, and we strongly believe in, like, it's the value the company is able to create over time that also will be the company's value. So, here we showed since inception how we built asset values and also the interest-bearing debt and our consolidated equity. So, we feel we, we've done what we said, focused on building long-term value, keeping a flexible business model with a robust balance sheet, making us possible to take also short-term opportunities when they arise in the market.
So, this has been extremely important for us to have relatively low risk, flexible balance sheet, and to create a significant portfolio in the Nordic area. And as Anders said, we want strategically to have assets where we see they're strongly placed. We looked a lot at property developers back in the days, the best developers of property. What do they focus on? Location, strategic locations, this has been also our main topic, as Anders said, to be close to the power lines, be close to where we believe the power will be used in the future. And this is also a big reason with Skovgaard portfolio. We see it's strategically positioned. It's not immediately measurable in cash flows, but we have had also good cash flow.
So, a lot of the, the value and, and equity created is also from, from profitability over the last couple of years. So, this, I think, is, is quite key now over the next slide to follow this graph. How do we build the actual equity in the company? And you see now, we, on the last report, we had, we had NOK 5 billion of equity. That included also minority interests. So, what, what we see, say is that, okay, without the minority interest, the booked equity is NOK 4.2 billion in the company. That's equal to about 14.6 per share. So, for us, how... We'll try to now spend some minutes to explain: how do we actually create value going forward? And how have we created value going up to this point? And we, we divide it more or less into four pillars.
I think a lot of people focus on this, this one, how much is discounted cash flow from our operational part? ... obviously important, but what we as a company spend a lot of time on is this one. And this is, Charlotte will spend a lot of time to try to tell how value is created in this segment, but it is a lot of field work, local network, working on getting access to what we believe over until 2030 will be attractive acreage, and strong network with the local stakeholders. So, this is, we've shown it with the Hån project, it's also somewhat visible in our P&L, but this is a big focus for us today, going forward.
Especially in a volatile market where, where we see inflation, CapEx is higher than before, we believe this, this is a significant value uptick for us in the future. The cash flow, as mentioned, will be very dependent on, on the power price. We believe, being in the right areas is, is important, and also Captiva helps us to have high uptimes and also sell the production when it's most profitable. So, having a lot of data, as Captiva is giving us, both on, on existing projects, but also new projects, together with a production profile or a production portfolio, gives us cash flow from the existing portfolio. We're asked a lot about the M&A, and I think this is quite complex to, to answer, but Lotta will get back to what we call the S-curve.
Yes, we buy assets, but man, we buy it in a lot of phases. Where we see we add a lot of value is buying into, for example, the Sundby project. It was a developed project, having spent about NOK 100 million in the project, the former owner, but they were not able to realize the project. We bought it for about one third of the invested cost, but we had to spend one year to develop it, talk to the local municipalities, it was a complex permit, get the wings fitted with modern technology, and so forth. This is what we believe is a lot of value creation. We can buy into the projects, save many years of permit work, but we create the value by our local development team.
This is quite important, and we also believe this will be the value we'll see in Odin. Even though we bought 51 turbines, immediately you do the discounted cash flow of those, but the long strategic value, we see there is a lot of underdeveloped possibilities around this area. So, look at it in two things. Yes, going forward, we will use it as part of, together with our development organization, to actually create more value out of these projects. We also buy into some hydro projects where we see, okay, here we can build a dam, you can build a new power plant as part of the water string and so forth. So, it's very seldom an isolated cash flow investment. We see normally some other potentials in it. Then there's capital allocation and risk reduction.
This goes that when we buy something, we try to take our interest rate and risk early on. We also, again, try to allocate our capital where we see we get the best return for that capital we have available. So, when we got a good offer for our hydro, we see we can sell, as we say, 1 unit of energy, and it making us able to produce 2 new ones. So, that's part that we'll get back to. So back to the return targets. We've said from the start that 6-9 is typically our in-house return. Here, it must be very important what price forecast we use. There are lots of different parameters that goes into this. We don't have price forecasts internally. We use third parties as Volue and Thema.
And also in the development segment, we have high return expectations, given that we have an experienced organization, have done this since 2008. So those remain unchanged. This is not... I won't go through it in total, but this is for people who wants to read a little bit more, how do we create value in these four pillars? And I talked about it on the previous slide, but I think, again, super important for us, value creation through the life cycle for Cloudberry. And we get back to this blue box, the in-house development, where we see we can do a lot here in the Nordics, given our now hubs in Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. Yes. So back to this, we presented also on our quarterly reports.
Mm, we're trying to illustrate how we work as a company, how we recycle the capital, and so forth. In the beginning, it was very important for us to get a decent size production portfolio. We still have a target of tripling this, but we already feel we have almost now one coming up to one terawatt hour of production. So, in this market, where we see, okay, financial distress in the public market, it's important for us to use our capital wisely. And this is one of the reasons we got a very good offer for 3 hydro plants. As we said, we can sell this, making us able to develop and build 2 more units. So, this is how we're thinking, effective recycling of capital, together with an underlying growth in production.
So, we've gone through this in our quarterly report, but this is quite important for us to explain how we think about growth versus capital return. So back to the question, we're not actively looking to sell down assets, but if you see that we can spend the capital more wisely, differently, or we believe the pricing is better than we expect, we are not saying we're not gonna do it, but we're very happy to have a good size of production. Now we're also back to DNB's question, and this is straight from, again, what we said three years ago when we listed the company on Merkur Market.
We presented this hydro and wind assets that we have, and they said, "Okay, what return expectations do we expect to have on these ones going forward?" So that was also, as you say, in the range 6-9, and mentioned Odal a little bit higher. And also we said on the development phase, we hope to, on the segment, to have about 15% equity return on our capital. So obviously, we've done two sales, one external and one internal. The internal was third-party verified, and we think is... We've seen a lot of comparable transactions in the area, so we feel very comfortable presenting those figures. But we, at least we feel like, okay, we're able to create value, develop good projects in attractive areas, that's also attractive for buyers.
So, this is we're still a young company, but it's important for us also to show you that the It's more than talking. This this was an actual transaction, and this, we feel very comfortable also with Hån. It's a very attractive assets if we were to farm down this this asset. So, yes, obviously, this is much higher returns than expected, but it shows again, the willingness for certain investors to pay for strategic positioned assets in the private market. The public market is pricing this very differently. So again, we focus on building long-term fundamental value, strategic assets, hydro assets. We have agreements 50, 60, 70 years. Wind, maybe 30 years, with which, and also our assets to own the land can, in certain cases, be interesting.
So, one , fundamental values and profitability. And again, how do we create this profitability? Yes, it's from these four pillars: the development segment, the cash flow from our production, and also, as we say, with how we de-risk and do our debt structuring, our interest rates fixing, and so forth, and how we actually operate these assets. So, in the P&L here, you will see that the P&L is created by all these four pillars in 2022 and 2023. So, going forward, how should we think of the future? As mentioned, it's been extremely volatile. We started Cloudberry when power prices was more or less zero. Then it was extremely high, came down again. Now it's on obviously much more interesting levels than it's been on the historical 10 years.
So, we'll do a lot of the same on the financial side, remain with a strong balance sheet, having focus on building long-term fundamental values and with a strong cash flow. So, this is, as mentioned, more important than to grow at all costs. We see again that if we have these hubs now, size is nice, we have better network, we get access to more acreage, and so forth, but obviously, the return to our shareholder is the most important. So, we try to do both, but in the current market, we see the value of being profitable and being disciplined with our capital. So, that's quite important. Then we also get a lot of questions, how do we now use our capital?
Again, a lot on, in the development phase, or at least of our in-house competence goes into the development phase. But we also see that the best projects onshore in Sweden and Denmark on wind is interesting. We see also hydro in Norway, we believe is very willing by the government, and we see there is 500 concessions where we, as a local stakeholder, can develop good projects. Anders talked about the Varea earlier, which we think is a very good project and quite a large project, hydro project. And the last, as we say, is solar. Especially in Denmark, where we can combine solar and wind. Good, two good production profiles fit together. Also, easier to build and its better sun conditions. So, we see some combined in our wind portfolio in Denmark could be interesting.
As Anders said, Norway, we is on wait and see. If the reactiveness is gone in October, November, we have a lot of interesting dialogues in Norway, but we are not investing in wind in Norway at the moment. M&A, still very important for us. Again, long term, focusing on the long-term values, but being opportunistic if short-term possibilities arise. And those are surprisingly many, because there are small projects, there are families, there are always, always opportunities for us, and this is the advantage of being local. You get always connected with these opportunities, and we see a good combination, but with in-house development and actively purchase to go in a little bit later in the development phase is value accretive for our shareholders.
So, last from me, just today, we also came out that we're proposing to have the option to buy back our own shares. The simple suggestion for this is, as mentioned, we see that the fundamental value of our shares is close to NOK 5 per kWh per producing asset, depending, but in short words, we see that it's very interesting for us to... If we can buy back our own shares, we buy assets for NOK 5 per kWh, and we see that we are able to sell them for significantly more. So, it's basically for us to have the option to buy back our own shares if we see this as accretive for our shareholders.
This we think is especially now when we've actually seen what investors are willing to pay for our assets versus what the price is. We think it's very good to have this possibility to do it. So, the EGM goes out today, and then it's three weeks before the EGM and so forth. So, the program, if we initiate it, will not be initiated before most likely in November. But we think it's very important for the company to have this opportunity. We don't think it's... The program is not so much liquidity in our shares, so it's not a big program.
It's less than 10% of our cash, so we don't see this influencing our growth story and the growth opportunities we see ahead of us. But it's – we ask the EGM to support this proposal, so we have the availability if we see it as accretive for our shareholders. Yes, I think that was it for me, and also nice to see that we're supported by more analysts covering us, both in Norway and abroad. So, we're getting more exposure now in several areas. So that's... Thanks a lot, and good for us to follow up with our partners here.
Thank you, Christian. I'm sure there are many questions, both here in Bergehus. We have some that we've received digitally. I think we will start with a question about a fairly straightforward question. Do you see any problems with the increase in interest rates?
Yes, always. Yeah. No, luckily, we taken away a lot of the interest rate risk in 2021 on our and 2022 on our new projects. The Skovgaard is, we have secured some of the interest rate, and but it's not fully covered. So we are on the last purchase. We still have some risk on changes in the interest rate. So obviously, when we made the decision, the interest rate was already at the levels it was now. So, but it's been, for us, always trying to reduce risk. We hedged more than 50% of our debt long term. And as you see, we don't have that much debt yet, but we have had, from day one, a risk reduction focus, both on interest rate, FX, exchange rates.
Now we are in euro, NOK, SEK, and Danish kroner, and also on, especially on our interest-bearing debt position. So yeah, this is a big focus also for the audit committee we report to on a quarterly basis and how we manage the risk. So yeah, we're quite comfortable with, but also, as you say, yes, part of the Odin portfolio is still exposed to short-term interest rates.
Okay, thank you. There's another question about: where do you see the best risk versus, rewards and opportunities going forward? So-
Yeah
... type of a big question here.
Yeah. No, it's from the thing we control. I think we see a lot of the interesting opportunities here and also some here where we can buy in on undervalued or projects that don't, where the competence is not in place. So, there we think we see obviously the competitive deals we stay away from. There are... We have participated in a lot of them. Very few we moved forward with because we see we're competing; it's very well structured. It's European infrastructure money that's have a high willingness to pay, so that's not where we are at the moment. Some of these may arise in Norway if the taxes are solved and so forth.
But I think what we can influence is these two pillars, where we see still a lot of value to be created by securing acreage, taking the projects forward, and Charlotte will talk a lot more about it in the next session. Yeah.
Okay. There's another question about the growth strategy. You just said that the buyback program will not be a barrier to the growth strategy of the company.
Mm.
How will Cloudberry finance the Three in Thirty strategy?
Yeah. Now, so I'm gonna keep this up again. I think, as mentioned, the buyback, we expect to use less than 10% of our cash. So, if you feel the growth story there and the capital to grow is, yes, we have some cash. We also have a good debt facility. We haven't talked a lot about it today, but extremely good support from our local Norwegian saving banks, where we will have also more than 1.0 or about NOK 1.1 billion in credit facilities. So, this gives us a good start, and then it's the availability to generate cash flow. Also take out, as we said, we plan to develop 3 TWh of in-house, where we maybe farm down or sell down two of them.
So, this will also be a revenue generator for us to finance the growth. So obviously, a lot will depend on what are the pricing of or the power prices and so forth in the next seven years. But I think, again, do more of the same: cash flow, in-house development, farm down some of these projects, and also use our balance sheet. Yeah.
There's also a question about the real value of Cloudberry.
Yeah
I guess this is the billion-dollar question, isn't it? What is the difference between the share price and the, and the value? We're talking about-
Yeah
... a 40% difference.
Yeah.
Can you explain that?
No, I don't want to say... The public market is the public market, and we see it, it's sometimes to our benefit, other times it's not to our benefit. So we always try to use the market to our advantage. That's number one. And how the public market is pricing versus the private market is obviously a huge gap at the moment. We think that the private money are much more closely linked to discounted cash flow, long-term values, where the public market is more driven by other factors. So I think that's the fundamental value difference. And I think it's difficult. Obviously, you've seen interest rate fears, you've seen inflation fears, you've seen also the tax risk in Norway.
So there, there are certain elements that can drive down the public prices in the short term. But what we can influence is these things, and we, we try to show that this is our book value, and we're able to make transactions above this level. So, so at least it should make a comforting statement on the fundamental values of the company. The public pricing, we, we do... can't do-
Too much
... we can't do much about.
Okay, we have a question in the audience.
2 questions.
Yeah.
First of all, it seems like a free lunch just to sell assets and buy back your shares. Would you consider doing that more aggressively going forward? And the second, lots of your assets are unregulated producing assets. So, have you considered going into pumped hydro to kind of mitigate the effects of the low prices?
Yeah. I think, again, I think for us, we try to focus on building long-term industrial values. So, you... The first one, I think, what the short-term pricing is, we'll see. But it's important for us and our shareholders to have a certain size of the production, and also today we said that it is important to grow our size. So, I think underlying, as Anders mentioned, we're not an active seller of assets. We want to keep this. We believe it's a high strategic value of these assets, and it's—we think it's just increasing over time. So, that's the short-term answer to the first one. The other is large-scale hydro, regulated hydro. We are always in a lot of dialogues. It's...
You have to be aware of Norway's ownership restrictions on large-scale hydro. You maximum can own one third as a private owner. So, so yes, we look into it. Reie is quite a, a large hydro project. But these opportunities, you have to just be there at the right time if these, chances arise. So it's, it's not like these... a lot of these transactions, they're normally locked into state-owned properties or local authorities who, who have, have had these assets for, 50-100 years.
But, pumped?
Pumped. Yeah. Pumped hydro, yes, you can also. We look at initiatives. You can pump, normally, I'm an engineer, you lose 15% up and down on the turbine side. So, A, you have a CapEx on the pump, so you normally have to have some storage, and these are normally with large-scale hydros. But on Gunnar on our production, we look at some more where we have one-week reservoirs, where it can make more sense. So, it's something we're looking at, but it has to make sense. It has to be enough volatility to actually do the CapEx investments, because you also have more or less loss of 15% each way when you pump it. Mm.
Seems like, the audience... We have one more question over here.
Anders Rosen. I was so happy with my very short question earlier, so I'll ask a longer question this time.
Yeah. He got an easy one.
It's the same topic. As a power producer, I appreciate that you have, there's a lot of optionality, and you can improve your assets and so forth, and you've talked about that already. But, if you end up with assets which are sort of readily developed and there is limited optionality in that asset, is that an asset then, which then should be sold, or do you have any advantages or edges owning, continuing to own, assets which are not subject to further improvement or there are further optionality? If you understand my question.
Yeah, I understand. Anders can also probably elaborate, but if we see there are better owners that's willing to pay for these values better than we are, we're always opportunistic about it in that sense. As Anders said, on the offshore side, we see we are not the best long-term owners of it. It's too capital intensive for us. It's also a different risk game. So there we see ourselves that when we've developed it, the ownership should be farmed down or sold out. That's at least in these type of projects. And also, you see, as we say, we are not saying. We like to have control of the assets. It's also part of the strategy we haven't talked about.
But if we farm down, maybe we can farm down one third to a pension fund or so forth, but we still are in charge of the operations and the assets. But we can get paid quite well for farming down parts of the ownership. So, these are our strategies we always discuss on the board level and so forth. So, there's I wouldn't say the short answer is neither, neither or, but always we're looking for when we start developing these assets, we always look at, okay, what do we believe? Is it a strategic well position, so it's valuable in the end? And this is also very important link to the ESG and the nature part.
We think looking at the nature part early on, that when you have a producing asset , I've been thinking about nature impact early or biodiversity early. We don't haven't seen it in transactions yet, but we believe that will actually be, in five years, quite important. Because if you have low impact, both in, in CO₂ emissions and nature, we believe those assets will have a higher value. So that's something we, we hopefully can report on our ESG and not looking it as a reporting, but look at this as creating value, that the assets will be more worth in the future for a pension fund or someone who wants low impact on their balance sheet. So, yeah, I can elaborate more in the later, but at least some, some flavor.
That is good, and we'll hear more about how we integrate ESG and the nature and climate impact, when we have a deep dive in the development projects. With that said, I don't think that there are any more questions digitally. We've answered, there were many questions about M&As that I think we've covered. There was actually one question about the how we define the pipeline and exclusive backlog and exclusive projects. Could you comment just quickly on how we differentiate, and I'm sure that Charlotte will go more into that?
Yeah, yeah.
It's understanding-
Yeah.
the pipeline and the backlog.
Yeah. I think Lotta will come back to it. Just keep in mind when you see the S-curve, Anders and I say, "Okay, the backlog is just what we report on." And I think it's quite important to tell it's a lot of other discussions with our network and with what we call the pipeline. But to call it a backlog project, it's a secured with the ground with the owners of the land. It's not in competitions with anyone else. We have it and can develop it under our exclusivity. That's the definition of the backlog. But this is very interesting questions, and it depends on also the technology. So, I think Charlotte can tell-
More about it.
Tell a little more into it.
Yeah, that explains how we break down-
Define it.
Yes. Okay. So thank you, Christian. With that said, we will have a break until 1:30 P.M. Central European Time for those who are with us in different time zones, and reconvene here. Thank you.
Okay, minute or two after schedule, I think we're ready to get back to Capital Markets Day. Welcome back. I hope you had the time to fill up your energy levels and are staying tuned for the second part of the Capital Markets Day. Our first speaker out now is Charlotte Bergqvist, Chief Development Officer of Cloudberry, and the awarded Power Woman of the Year in Sweden. She will deep dive into our development process and how we create value the Cloudberry way.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Nice to see you all here, and hello, everyone online. Thanks for that lovely introduction. I'm of course very proud to have the award, Power Woman of the Year, that I was given last year. But I'm sure that all of you know that the Power Woman of the Year is given to someone who works a lot with diversity and inclusion in the power sector. But I'm sure that all of you know that this is not about equality issues or women equality, it's about delivering results. That companies that deliver on diversity and inclusion also deliver the best results. A lot of research is telling us that, so very inspired by the award to keep on with that important work. So, I have a long background within development.
So, this year is my 20-year anniversary. So back in 2003, I started with wind energy development in Sweden, and I was a big believer back then. Now I feel that it's time to really accelerate and scale and deliver on projects that we need for the energy transition. So, now I'd like to talk to you about our development activities, our ambitions, projects, people, and opportunities that we see in the Nordic countries. We heard Thina said that we need to move fast. To move fast in this area, we need local support. We need to either create it or have it, because this is a local game. The renewable revolution is definitely a local game, even though the benefits of it are global.
So, you need to understand the local dynamics, you need to be close to your projects, you need to have the local community sort of in your iPhone, more or less, that they call you if there's anything arising. So, so we are really focusing, and we are building the whole development business around being very close to our projects. I will show you later the teams and the offices and the locations. So, the way we do this is, of course, we have the local knowledge, and we have the presence. We build the local relationships. We find ways for local involvement and to engage all the stakeholders early. That's actually very important.
You need to be out there very early to talk about your projects, and you will see later in my list of projects that we have, that we are having our backlog, all of them are not named. It's because you need to be done with a lot of hearings and discussions and dialogue in the local context before you start to spread the word to the rest of the world. So, we need to have the ability in navigating in these local dynamics, because when you do that good, you get access to sites, you also get efficient development processes. And when you're not good at this, you can end up in horrendous processes that takes forever. So, this is key. And we also build the trust by adjusting plans.
So, we come early, we start talking to landowners or neighbors or local community, and we ask them about the area, and they can say, "This is a good place, that's not so good." And we start to adjust the plans on what we hear. And of course, this is the way we create value. We keep local. So, it takes skills and experience to develop projects. We see that within Cloudberry and including Captiva, we have a really solid track record in developing projects, both our own in-house projects, but also when we acquire a project later stage. And this goes for wind, for hydro, and this goes all out of all through the Nordic countries. So, summarize- when we summarize it, we see we have nearly 20 years of hydro and wind development.
We have more than 1,500 MW in-house development, totally in-house or acquired projects at all stages of development. Through Captiva, we are engaged in more than 500 assets and over 2,000 MW in management and advisory services. This gives insight, and this gives experience and skills to, throughout the stages, see if this is good project, and how to bring projects forward in a good way and efficient way. For those of you that were here last year, you already seen this picture, and I'm sure that my colleagues in industry, we show this picture when we talk about what is development? Well, development goes over different phases, and the work we do in different phases is somewhat different. First of all, it starts with the greenfield development. It's about finding new sites.
It's about talking to landowners, talking to other local developers, finding the new opportunities where we see areas for new projects. What we do is that we are very early on trying to align with the local community. So, we talk to them, we stay local, we have a really close dialogue on what they think about a project. We do site screenings and pre-studies. We have a structured process of evaluating sites early on. I think Christian was mentioning it, the difference between being just a pipeline or a development and the backlog is when we sign a land lease. This goes for onshore wind, for solar, and for hydro projects. So, when we get that exclusivity to a project, that's when this project shows up in our backlog.
Signing a land lease means we start with a permission process. We start with impact studies, we start with the field work, and we start to run the permission processes. That's most of the grid, that's the environmental permit. There could be more permits needed for development. Hopefully, after doing a good screening process, after having good local dialogues, doing good studies, understanding the impacts, showing measurements, how we make the impacts less, when we obtain a permit, it goes into the next phase.
I will show you an overview soon of what permits we have. And then we go into looking into the project, how we can build it, design phase, procurement phase, and, of course, the investment decision, and then the construction starts. So, this is an illustrative picture showing how we create value within development, and these are the phases we cover. In the beginning, there's a lot of creativity. There's a lot of local opinion work, and our people there are very communicative and know exactly how to... You know, they even sometimes speak the local dialect is a good thing. Even maybe you have some relative in the area, is perfect, because then you directly get into touch with people.
In the construction phase, it's more of control and a very structured way of executing the projects. So, this is what's in our construction portfolio for the moment. I will do a little deep dive into some of these projects, but this is to give you an overview. So, for the moment, we have the Øvre Kvemma, which is a small-scale hydro project in Norway. It's under construction. That was a project that we acquired last year, and the plan is to have that in operation sometime next year. Then we have Sundby and Munkhyttan, which are both under construction. They are both in the SE3 price area in Sweden.
They both build on the experiences we did with Hån, which was one of the projects we delivered in a very safe way without safety incidents and on time and budget. So, we're transferring a lot of knowledge from Hån to Munkhyttan and Sundby. I will come back to Sundby in a moment. And then we have Duvhällen, which is, it's a permitted project. Some weeks ago, we got the last sort of grid concession, and we are planning to take a finance investment decision on that one within the next 6-12 months. It's a good project, so we hope to be able to have that in the list of have that little dot there that we are also in construction, but not really yet.
The backlog. As I said, the definition of a backlog is that we have an exclusive right to the area. As you see in this list, there is, for example, no offshore projects, because offshore projects has a little different process. This will give you an overview. We need a good backlog to be able to deliver projects for being a producing asset. The quality of the backlog is very important. The number of projects in the backlog is very important, because some projects they go fast, some projects go a little slower. We need to have yearly a good possibility to deliver qualitative projects.
So as you see, some of these projects are named, then the hearings are completed, and we are sort of moving into the next phase. For some of them, there are still some hearings ongoing, so we choose not to publish the name in this list. We also have a development agreement with our Danish partner, Skovgaard. In addition to this list, there is another 350 MW in Denmark of mainly solar wind projects that we have an exclusive right to negotiate. So, as you see, I start to like this picture. I hope next year when I come, I hope this maybe doubles up more or less. This is a very important part of our to deliver on the strategy, to have a good and qualitative backlog.
I had some notes, but now I don't know. I don't know. You start with the notes, and then you skip it. So, I hope I remember everything that I should say. So, we have the, as you know, we have the permitted projects in production—in construction, and then we have the, the backlog, and we are working very hard to find more projects. We work with, with the local developers, we work with, large landowners. We use our own network. We are in an area we active, we start to talk to more people, and they're coming to ask us, "What about my, what about my land?" and so on. So, this is the near-term pipeline.
These are identified projects where dialogues are ongoing, where we see opportunity, we are in sort of some sort of negotiation with landowners. So, as you see, we are having a focus on sort of the middle part of Sweden and the southern part of Norway. We have the development agreement in Denmark, and we have opportunities in the offshore segment in Sweden on the east coast. Those are, those will stay as a pipeline for a while, because the exclusivity is not really there until you have your permit. Of course, you try to be very efficient in your processes to not let anyone else in there, but they will stay in the pipeline for a while.
So, we see great opportunities all over these areas. And to be able to deliver on everything we'd like to do, it's about the people. So, we have a highly committed development team that every day stays close to the project, stays close to the local stakeholders. As you see, we are quite spread out, but the idea is to be close to the project. And you see the dots; we discussed the dots before. The dots are actually adding—it's adding dots around our offices. It's not only that we went there because there were some dots. We are there, and there are dots adding. So, it's an idea to be spread out and be close to our project and stakeholders.
The combination, again, of Cloudberry and Captiva is a real strength. Together, we create lots of synergies, also in the development phase, where we have many experiences and many contacts and a good network that we can use. So that was a little bit of the overview of development, the projects, where we're located, the teams. Now, I'd like to give you three examples of projects that we're working on for the moment or one that we just delivered. So Hån, that's one of the in-house developments. It was initiated back in 2011-12, the first discussions. The environmental permit was given 2017. So, it's the colleagues in Karlstad who was there. They found the spot.
They started with the local dialogues, and in the end, now we have this project in operation. So, it's a 21 MW project. It's located just on the border between Sweden and Norway, and it was in operation, the commissioning date was in December last year. And it's a very interesting project from many perspectives, and I think many of us are very proud of what we did at Hån. We-- we did not only deliver it on time and budget, but there was also a lot of special stuff around this project, which makes us extra proud. So, as Anders said, there was no grid in the area. So, we saw the opportunity of connecting the Hån wind farm to the Norwegian grid.
That's actually the only project throughout, never heard of it, that crossed the border and entered into another country to connect. And that opened up the possibility to build Hån. We would have waited, maybe still waited for grid. It's also just next to Marka Wind Farm, which we sold back in 2019 to BKK, but that was also developed in-house by our teams in Cloudberry and Captiva. And we saw a great value creation of value in Hån. So, it was in-house developed, and then it was sold to sort of the production unit within Cloudberry, and we saw a very high rise of 50% in the equity IRR, transferring it from development to production. So, with quite small money, you can create big value.
The next project I like to talk about is the Sundby Wind Farm, which is just now under construction. This was an opportunity. This was a project that was halfway, sort of in the construction. So, a lot of infrastructure had been done by the previous owner, and then they wanted to leave Sweden, so it was an international player. So, we saw the opportunity of actually to a lower value than the market, acquire the project and make something out of it. And it's in Eskilstuna, where we have one of the teams. It's actually not so far away from where we have the office. It just takes a couple of minutes to go to the site. It's a 32 MW project, 9 turbines.
The turbines are just to be delivered to the site. So, very exciting times for us. The FID was taken last year, and starting production in end of this year, we will have access to 24 MW of grid capacity, and within another couple of months, we'll have full capacity of 32 MW. And using some of the existing infrastructure actually made us do this project very quick. So almost in a year, we went from a financial investment decision to a producing - hopefully a producing asset. And until now, everything is on time and budget and no safety incidents so far. Finally, the Øvre Kvemma, Kvemma is a small-scale hydro project in Norway. You see the location on the map.
It's a very interesting project that we acquired last year, and that is now being built by the former owner. We will do the FID and bring it into our portfolio early next year or sometime next year, yeah, first half next year. It's a hydro project with a low impact on nature. So, it's been a lot of carefully thought through measures with Kvemma that made this to have very low impact into this environment. So, it's a river that is taking into a tunnel. So, when you, when you're there walking or being into the area, you don't see much of it.
You see a nice river coming through, some of the water is going through the tunnel, and then it's coming out through a turbine in the end. So, it looks very nice, and there's no extra roads or anything like that. This has been very carefully developed, and there's a lot of tourists in the area. So, this was an important part of developing the product to find these solutions. Now, I'd like to show you a short video of going back a little bit to Hån and show you some examples of sustainability in practice. We heard Thina was going through this different alphabet, and of course, it's a structure in the whole sustainability work.
But it's also very important to be very precise and show some examples on what this is. So, I'll show you a short film that covers the Hån project, and then I'll show you some examples of the sustainability work at Hån. All of you read our sustainability report, right? So maybe what I'm going to say now, all of you know it already. But anyway, we're proud and happy that we can be very precise on what we've done on sustainability on Hån. And as you know, all infrastructure we need to emit some CO2. We need to do some impact on the environment. However, it's important to put that into perspective.
So, working with the sustainability at Hån, and giving you sort of a broader picture of this, I hope you'll feel inspired. So, the Hån wind farm will produce 2,200 GWh over its lifetime, 30 years, and that leads to 500 tons of avoided CO2 emissions. And we're using this EU energy mix to do those calculations. And that would be equivalent to the annual emission of 70,000 inhabitants in Norway. So that's an inspiring number s to think about when you look at a project like this. Because if you look at the graph, what we do... Now, I cannot go to the screen, I was told, so I'll stay here.
When we start, of course, we start to emit CO2 in the manufacturing phase of all the components. Also, we use some transport and lifts and stuff for the wind farm. And even though we would want it to be electrical, and we'll always ask for it, it will take some time until all of that value chain is electric. But what you see is that as the wind farms start to be produced, a year later, we are positive, and then you continue to see the graph, how it's moving upwards. And for this, for the Hån project, the emissions will offset emissions 50 times that we needed for the construction and production of the wind farm. So, this is actually quite impressive numbers.
Also, apart from that bigger picture on the CO2 emissions and what you need to use for it and how you sort of bring it back, or what you can avoid by having it in production, we also did a few specific measures that I think is interesting to mention. One thing we did was that we created a just-in-time principle for some of the turbine components, that led to that we did not have to make that much hard stance in the area. So, by getting the components just in time to the area, we never had them in storage, so they were lifted directly. That was actually quite new, and it's the creative colleagues that come up with that idea.
That surely minimized the impact in the local context. Then, of course, the existing roads and the roads we used, we did them as narrow as we could, and even with the angle, how steep they are. There was different stuff there that made us not do too many changes... and also for the foundations, we use these rock-anchored foundations, which where you use much less concrete. So the calculations give us a reduction by 70%. And when it comes to the social context, we participated in creating this Unionsleden, which is a bike trail that passes through the wind farm.
There's some extreme cycle races that you can sign on to, which takes you from all the way, I think it's from Moss to Karlstad, and then you will pass the wind farm. So, try to sum it up a little bit. We looked at the projects, the overall portfolios, how we try to, of course, increase the pipeline and increase the backlog as good as we can with quality projects and the process we use, and also some examples of projects, and then, the sustainability work that we, in practice, that we do in the development segment. And then, of course, just sum it up the Cloudberry way. Well, we're here in, we're here, we are in it for the long run, which helps us a lot in the development phase.
So, when we go somewhere, talk to someone, we can say, "We're gonna be here for the long run. We see to both develop and construct and own the project." That actually gives us access to land. And showing the track record and some of the projects we did already delivered also helps us. And we are careful in selecting the sites. We have a structured process. We actually say no to projects every now and then because we don't believe in them. And with the long-term perspective, we can also talk to the locals in a different way. We can say, "We're gonna be here with you. We're gonna have a partnership for 30 years, so how can we create value? How can we work together?
What can be done apart from building a wind farm or a solar farm or a hydro power plant? How can we help in a long-term partnership?" By understanding the dynamics and the locals and the impact, we hope and aim to take a lot of responsibility in the projects. I think that's it.
That's it.
Thank you so much for listening, and, maybe we have time for questions.
We do, we do, and we do have some questions, for you. We have one very practical question: What is the time schedule for Duvhällen?
Oh, yes. Duvhällen is our next... It's permitted project, 60 MW in Eskilstuna Municipality. We just got the grid concession a couple of weeks ago, confirmed, which was the sort of last milestone, and we're now starting to look at the procurement and the design, and hopefully take an investment decision with that within the next 12 months. That's the plan.
That's the plan. Okay.
Yeah.
Thank you. So we have another question that's tapping into a lot of the things you've talked about of local stakeholders. It's the whole kind of movement, Not In My Backyard. How do you see the development process and the Cloudberry way of developing a kind of a maneuvering in that Not In My Backyard, and if you also add on to that, the nature versus climate type of dilemma?
Yeah. So, the Not In My Backyard, the NIMBY, which we also would like to turn into the YIMBY-
Yeah
... the Yes In My Backyard is not an easy, it's not an easy task. And it's all about change. So, people are, doesn't really like change. So, some people are—they are worried when we start to develop a project. They are worried, and they have a lot of questions. So, the only thing to do is actually to be present, to be accessible. Someone said to one of the project managers that, "The best thing about you is that I have you in my phone. I can call you and ask you a question." So, it's, it's being there. Sometimes you need to be, to... Sometimes you need to talk about facts. There are a lot of myths. There's actually an organized resistance movement to wind power all over Europe.
So, you need to add facts, you need to build trust, you need to be present, you need to be active, you need to understand the worries, you need to be able to answer the questions.
Mm-hmm.
If we can find ways for involvement, that's the best thing. Can more people in this community be part of this project in some way? And then in what way? It differs. Every project is unique, so...
Yes.
But we need, we need to understand that people are worried.
Yes.
It's, uh-
Understanding the local segment.
Yeah. Yeah.
You had a question in the digital chat that you actually answered. It was about the backlog in Denmark that you tapped into about our backlog with Skovgaard. So I think that has been answered. I don't see any questions here in the audience. Do we have another question now digitally? Just give me a second. Oh, yes. So the political sentiment, how does that differ in Sweden versus Norway? Do you see any risks of tax proposals like we've had in Norway, in Sweden?
Well, my view is that the wind industry in Sweden is actually quite large for the moment. So, there's a lot of capacity that was used about the last 20 years. I think the problem with the tax proposal in Norway is not that it's a tax proposal, it's that it's retroactive. That you say that would influence the investments already been done. My view is that that is not gonna happen in Sweden, with retroactive tax on already producing assets. What we see is that we are discussing this in incentive programs. So how would you bring incentives to a local community? And maybe that could be sort of a new law that you as a renewable energy developer needs to do certain things. But we welcome that.
We think that's a good thing, we're not so worried. If that would speed up our processes, we're happy. So, we already do some of those things, so I'm not so worried about that.
Okay. So one question for you.
Hi, Charlotte. Thanks for the presentation. Can I just quickly clarify something? You know, on the slide where you show your exclusive backlog?
Yeah.
Just now, when Christian was talking about the 3 TW of TWh of development, kind of, generation, is this 1.5 TWh, like, part of that figure? So, like, when you say you're 3 and 30, this is kind of like part of the development TWh that-
Absolutely.
Okay.
Absolutely.
Then when he said that you're gonna farm down or, like, Cloudberry will farm down 2 TWh of this, how do you decide what projects move from development to into construction? Is it-
Yeah
... just a matter of, like, what the...
So-
... assets that fetch the best price or something?
So mainly what we think is that the offshore projects, which is part of the development portfolio, will not be owned by Cloudberry.
Okay.
Yeah. So... And we sort those out in the pipeline. So, part of the pipeline is a number of offshore projects. We believe that we are best in class on the local dialogues. We know the authorities, we know our way, so, but we don't think that Cloudberry is enough big to carry those projects into construction and into our own owning. So, what you see here... And we need more projects in this backlog to reach the target. That's a daily focus.
So it's-
... to grow this backlog.
It's only the offshore.
I think also to elaborate, it's always a portfolio thought for us. So, it's in the portfolio. So, I think what we keep and what we sell has a lot to do with thinking as a portfolio manager, to manage risk across price regions and so forth. So, what fits nicely in our portfolio, we keep, or, as you say, if there are certain we also can farm down 1/3 or 49% of certain projects where we see, so we get more efficient use of our capital. But,
And we should-
Regional focus and diversification is important.
Mm-hmm. And we should say that this is the processes that run for the moment. So, this is our best guess on when we deliver new permits. So, my view is that we will have new projects into this backlog, and some of it might not be there two years from now. So, it's a very dynamic. It's like a "This is the view for the moment" picture. Yeah.
Thank you.
Okay, I think that concludes the deep dive into development. Thank you so much.
Thank you
... Charlotta.
Thank you.
We will now move into the last segment of our Capital Markets Day. It is now Stig Østerbø, our Chief Technology Officer and the CEO of Captiva. Cloudberry acquired 60% of Captiva in the beginning of 2022, and it's now a fully integrated part of the Cloudberry group. We will now hear how Captiva is creating synergy within Captiva, within Cloudberry.
Yes, thanks a lot, Ingrid, and hello, everyone. I guess you're all tired now and want to do something else, but if you can hold on for another 15 minutes, it would be great for me. The synergies within the Cloudberry group is so far under-communicated and undervalued. Undervalued is understandable because it's not that easy to see from the outside, and under-communicated, that's on us, and that's why it's the topic of my presentation today. I'm head of the operation segment, externally branded as the company Captiva. My angle will be to try to explain to you how we work and the dynamics work internally, and which gives synergies to the other segments within the Cloudberry group as well.
So, just to start out to explain what the operation segment is all about, our mission is to maximize renewable asset performance with insight. And with insight, we mean our experience in the team, the competence, and also the insight that the data provides us. We are responsible within Cloudberry to operate and manage the plants and also supporting Charlotte and her team on late-stage development, like in the construction phase. We have a team of 25 industrial experts doing the management services. Within the management, about 80% of all our activity is outside the Cloudberry domain. We are organized in four teams: two technical teams, one on hydro and one on wind, a separate commercial team, and one financial team.
As renewable assets in hydro and wind are highly digitalized, we have strong focus on developing industrial digital solutions, well fitted and suited for the purpose of operating the plants. A team of 15 who is supporting the asset management teams with the software, software developers, but also doing data management, the practical part of data management and data analytics. This on the digital side, we also have a separate product strategy, since many other power companies also see the value in using our digital solutions. So, we deliver many of the digital solutions also as a product to the market.
This interlinks where, if we go back to before the break and Arnold's presentation on the targets for the strategy for 2030, with a target of having data flow on 30 TWh on the digital platform, but also a target of management of 3 TWh of external clients. The uniqueness on our platform is the combination of these two parts. There are many players developing digital solutions from the technical side, and also many managers only doing asset management. I think the uniqueness we have here is that the users of the digital solutions in the management teams are working seamlessly with the software developers, and which is crucial to define what problem to solve with the software solutions.
That gives us a user-driven software development, but also very easy to implement the solutions in the data-driven asset management. The basic circle of data-driven asset management works like this. Data is extracted from the power plants into our IT systems and combined with external data, such as weather data and market prices, for example. We use one high-level reporting system, web-based, to supervise and analyze the plants, and also analyze the commercial aspects of it. We have a deep dive time series-based system analyzing sensor data to optimize production and bring more operational intelligence into the system. We have an on-site mobile app where we ensure compliance, share documents, and also log manual data into the total systems.
This gives insights to the management teams, with ensuring the technical performance, commercial aspects, and compliance on the operation of the plants. Okay, so this is pretty basic, but if you see some figures of where we are today, this is a diagram where you have the owned assets by Cloudberry, about 730 GWh. We manage about 800 GWh today, 80% of that for external clients, which gives, gives a total of underlying assets of about 1.5 TWh. We have recurring advisory assignments on about 6.5 TWh today. Among those, supporting the biggest infrastructure funds and investors in the Nordics on wind. And we have data flow on corresponding to 4.5 TWh from wind and hydro, hydro plants in the Nordics today.
And you, there are some logos on the right there, a lot of infrastructure funds on our client list, also several Scandinavian companies. But the point is that this operational scale is far beyond what you can find in the balance sheet of Cloudberry. So, we have five times the operational scale in-house capacity compared to what would be proportional to the asset base owned. And with the advisory assignment engagement we have and the data flow, we have ten times the insight we would otherwise have. If you look at the value chain of Cloudberry, I would like to just make one point, that we have this what we have talked about to-...
A lot so far today is the left side of this slide, which is the part where we actually deploy the capital, either through development projects or M&A investments. But there comes a quite long phase after that as well, which is actually to manage the capital. And, for the plants we are invested in, you have economic lifetime of maybe 30-60 years on each investment. So, one thing is, doing the investment phase diligently, but how you actually operate the plants, and what kind of intel you use, during the coming decades, is also highly important of what kind of return you actually end up achieving. And there is both downside and upside to this.
So, there is, if you don't—if you're not diligent enough, you can of course, lose return you otherwise would expect, but there are also upside potentials that can, that can increase your, your, your returns, going forward. Which is, of course, super important for, the cash flow for, for, for the coming years. Also, important part of the funding plan to reach 3 terawatt-hours in 2030. So, if you see—look at the, at the value chain from pipeline and, development and, M&A, as, Charlotte covered, earlier, and then you move into the operational management of the assets. I think one important aspect here is, again, referring to scale.
So having a big scale, an operational scale, enforces how we are able to achieve those returns that are expected and even overperforming on the expected returns. The synergies across the value chain is really important. I think when we have, we now operate 10 times as many hydro plants than we own, and we are involved in more than 5 TWh of wind power, representing the largest infrastructure funds in the Nordics. That gives us a much bigger network than we would otherwise have. As Charlotte explained, these greenfield development processes are highly unstructured. It's about being there, having the relationships, having building trust over time. We are present at least 5 times as many places that we otherwise would be with this strategy.
That drives increased pipeline and deal access also on M&A opportunities. With this presence and this operational scale, also gives us a lot more market intelligence. That's super important on after we have identified the potential deals, then we move into asset selection and being able to select the right deals, but also valuations in during transactions and risk assessment during transactions is super important. And the more you know about this, the more market intel you have, the better equipped you are to make the right judgment in this phase. And the last thing is also strongly linked to operational scale.
It's super difficult to build a power company from zero if you are going proportional on your asset base and your organization. Because the critical mass of organization is quite high compared to the asset base. So, you need to move, like, really fast to 3 TWh, not in 10 years, but maybe it's like 3 months to make that work. And we don't need that now because we have the organizational scale with the external clients as well. So, we are already there, where we have the broad set of competence. We are beyond the critical mass already.
By that, we have at the current stage a 5x in-house skill set that we can deploy when projects are maturing, and we need extra capacity, we need to reduce risk and execute on M&A opportunities. Some examples how this has played out in practice only the last six to nine months. On the pipeline building, the hydro team has over the last five years we have developed, identified, and greenfield developed 15 small-scale hydro plants. The last or only this year to date, we have signed up 4 new projects, exclusive with exclusivity, which was a part of Charlotte's slide on the backlog earlier.
And this is just like, it's not big projects, but it's a recurring activity, simply by being present and having your eyes and ears open. On the development side, last year, we were really successful in strengthening and laser-focus a lot of our capacity on the wind team, with both the experience and their competence. And I have to mention also a dedication and commitment that you cannot really buy for money. So, that's also was really important to be able to prepare a project like this for an investment decision.
I don't know how familiar you are with it, but like making an investment decision on a wind farm is not reading through some papers the night before and then say yes or no. It's a lot of work in the procurement process, the engineering, design, make sure that the risk level is appropriately low. So, it's a lot of work on the field to make that really happen. On M&A, another example is the 100 MW Odin transaction before the summer. It could leverage on the wind teams more than 8 years of experience, advising on over 1,000 MW wind farms in the same Nordic region.
And on commercial, just one example, we had a very special event in July, this year, with extreme negative prices of EUR 62 per MWh. And that was the first time ever happening in any Norwegian price area. And, even though it was, I think it was 16th of July or something, within days after, we had a routine up and running, practical routine, end-to-end, making sure that we could avoid, feeding power into the grid, at negative prices, which is not so obvious, that you might think at first, first time. Okay, but summing up, our central question is: Why is Captiva part of Cloudberry? I think one thing is, is a good thing just to establish. First of all, the operation segment is profitable on a standalone basis.
We have been profitable every year since our establishment in 2006. It's now 16-17 years ago. We have doubled our turnover over the last 7 years to about 55 million NOK in last year, and we delivered a net profit margin of about 15%, on average, the last 7 years. More investments in new markets and products now last year, this year, and will continue into the next year. So, we expect the revenues to grow even more the years to come and are steering towards a steady state EBITDA margin in the area of 15%-20%. But the most important thing is what comes on top of this. So, as I said, there are quite strong synergies.
I think one strategic rationale for, which is actually the case in this case, for our client to have strategic ownership in a supplier, which is the setup formula we have now, is that there is to ensure a strategic alignment, so that the supplier can support the client going forward the years to come as well, both when it comes to competences, systems, and capacity. That's one obvious strategic rationale.
But as we have touched into to earlier, the organizational scale of 5 times what's proportional to the asset base and 10 times the intel and insights you would otherwise have gives increased deal access to the early stage of the funnel and the pipeline, soon to show up as back, as backlog in our figures. The market intel to improve the asset selection and valuation, and also the broad competence from the organizational scale to increase the execution abilities and risk reduction. So in total, we have the combination of being able to have this organizational scale.
We are able to benefit of the scale similar to our top 10 Nordic power company, but at the same time remaining agile and a fast mover to identify and follow up on opportunity, opportunities as they come along. So, in total, these synergies they amplify Cloudberry throughout the value chain and increase the return on the owned assets, and by that, creating value far beyond the intrinsic value of the operation segments alone. Thanks.
Thank you, Stig. We do have some questions for you as well. There's one question that came in digitally. That's about cybersecurity. That's high on the list on all big companies-
Mm.
but, working with critical infrastructure, that is also, I assume, on Cloudberry's watchlist.
Mm.
What are you doing in terms of cybersecurity in Captiva and for Cloudberry?
Its cybersecurity is important for everyone, and especially, as you say, on critical infrastructure. But there are levels of this, of course, because most of our system, if not all, are only reading data from the plants. So, what you are really concerned about is two things. One thing is that someone alien are able to control the plant. That's really bad, of course. And then again, also, how critical that kind of infrastructure actually is.
So, it's important for us, but we are not that exposed, as you might read in the newspaper, when, like the large power producers and the level of security they need to have on their system, actually controlling the plants. But we need to be super diligent on that as well. It's. We don't not want any leakage of the information, but that's more or less on the same level as other companies.
Okay. And we have another question about opportunities going forward, and if you're looking into more international expansion. What can you say about that?
I think we are following the same mega trend as many other in a strategy linked to the green transition. So, we see good opportunities in our home market, which is the Nordics, and especially Norway, Sweden, and now Denmark also, following the Odin transaction. On the asset management side, the local presence and local knowledge is super important, so we don't have any plans of going, let's say, further south than that. On the digital side, it's a bit different because it's more scalable, and also, our motivation by establishing an office last year in Bern, Switzerland, to promote our digital solution there as well.
A bit more expansion on digital side than management side.
Going to Europe on the digital-
Yes
... agenda. Okay, I think that wraps it up. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
We have come to the end of the presentations, and I'm now gonna give the floor to Anders to wrap up with some closing remarks on our second Capital Markets Day.
Thank you. Thank you, Ingrid. And, yes, thank you so much for your attendance here and online today. We have heard today, and we know that it's an ongoing energy transition. We all know where we need to go. We all know that this is going to happen, and, we are uniquely positioned in that, call it mega trend or in that energy transition in the Nordics. So, I think that's a key takeaway from today, is how we look at our positioning in the Nordics on the ongoing transition, and also that we have a flexible and scalable platform. There will be bumps in the road.
There will be some twists and turns that we have to make, and I have at least tried to talk about the flexibility that we have, which is important in times like we experienced now. But we are a growth company, so scalability is also important for us. And of course, Christian has covered the balance sheet and the funding going forward. Profitable growth is the number one for us now, and I think with that and the 2030 ambitions, I think you got what we were hoping to communicate today.
I'm also open for questions, if it's any questions, but I think that will be the key takeaways, the position and flexible and scalable platform, and also that we are now funded and ready for growth. Any questions? I'm saying thank you to everyone.