Good morning and welcome to the quarter one presentation for DOF. We will have a Q&A session at the end, so do they have to send in questions, Hilde?
Those who are listening in.
Yeah, those who are listening. You have to send questions, and we will answer them in the Q&A after. So this is a beautiful picture. Skandi Aase, my wife is a godmother for her, so it's the best boat in the fleet, I have to say. And so this is DOF. What we do, it's we deliver services to the offshore energy sector, and we own a big fleet, 44 vessels owned by the end of the quarter. We own a large pool of subsea equipment, and we have 4,000+ people executing the work around the globe. So we come back to the numbers, but still growing. Last 12 months, EBITDA of the asset department is $371 million. Of course, what we have been growing a lot lately is the project part of the business.
So that is what employees produce, delivering projects in any category in the offshore space, and they deliver last 12 months $95 million. And of course, it's a high value of that workforce. So totally last 12 months, $466 million in the EBITDA. If you look at Q1, starting on the bottom here, Skandi Buzios, you all remember she had a big fire. We've been in Norway now to repair. Left Norway mid-April and went to Holland to install the flagship tower, and expect her to leave Holland for Brazil in May, early June, and then go on the exact task with Petrobras after importation again. So late July, early August, it's my hope that we are back on hire on her end. Of course, she's a big earner for us, and of course we also take costs for her.
So I think the numbers in Q1 would have been instead of the $114 in EBITDA in Q1, it would have been around $135, yeah. So we are looking forward to get her back. In the quarter, we had high activity in all regions. Of course, not the full speed in all regions. Of course, the project part of the business is ramping up in some of the regions when we come into second and third quarter. So of course, we expect activity to further increase going forward, and also, of course, that rate levels on the spot boats and on some of the project boats will, of course, increase during the high season. But a good start. Average utilization, of course, a bit lower last year. Part of the explanation is, of course, Buzios being off-hire in Q4, but a few boats docking, but decent.
But of course, we expect that to increase a bit the following quarters. Order intake of $280 million and then $250 million after the balance sheet. So after that, we are now at around $2.1 billion. Of course, I remember in the last webcast, I was saying that before we go on Norwegian summer holiday, that we should be closer to $3 billion backlog now too. And I still believe that, yeah. So I have a slide on backlog and give you a bit more flavor on it. But of course, it's in my optimistic corner, I counted more than 10 long-term contracts, including the one we have released that were in the pipeline in negotiations. And of course, I'm optimistic, so I can't guarantee you that.
But it's kind of a deal flow that we are in that, let's say, mode now where I expect to have very high inflow of new orders going forward, yeah. But I'll come back to that. We took on the Maersk Installer. Of course, it's a big boat. It's the first time we shot her in a 400-ton crane boat. So it's been a bit, and of course, we took it in a bit late. So it has been a bit of pressure to get backlog on her. She was ready for operations towards second half, late April. I have a slide showing that the team has done an excellent job securing backlog for her, yeah. So it looks good for the rest of the year. The numbers, as I said, so revenue $330 and EBITDA $114, yeah.
Hilde will do more on the numbers later. This is the backlog, yeah. So by the end of the quarter, we had 1 point there was something wrong here, Hilde, wasn't it? Here it says 1852. So that's wrong, yeah.
It should be 194.
Yeah. So this is correct. It's 194 by the end of the quarter, yeah. And then there was 250 after balance state, meaning we are at 2.2, yeah. And as I said earlier, I expect that to be closer to 3 than 2 before I go on summer holiday, yeah. And the chairman offered me yesterday late tickets with Norwegian in September, yeah. But I hope I can go normally in July, yeah. And of course, it is quite a few contracts. Of course, we mentioned last time, of course, the pipeline tender in Brazil. And of course, it's taking a bit longer than we expected. But of course, we still expect a few contracts from that. We have noticed the change of press release, two anchor handlers in Brazil. We expect one more on that tender. And also on the globe, there is Active.
So as I said, we expect a lot of new inflow on the backlog going forward, yeah. And what's interesting is, of course, that we see of course, rate levels are up, more or less on all categories. And of course, the duration is longer, yeah. So of course, you see a good example was the Skandi Rio built 2006 or 2007. And then the rate level she was working on the same type of job before. So rate level up from around $50-$75 on the 2006-built boat, yeah. So it shows that and of course, then you build backlog. She will commence late this year. So of course, you build backlog then to late 2028 on the 2006-built boat, yeah. So it is kind of good.
So as I said, I will go on summer holiday, and we're going to be hopefully closer to three than two, yeah. So no changes to what we thought a few months back. So this is the same. And of course, this is what we have done so far. We commented a bit on when we delivered full year for 2023. So the Skandi Iceman, we commented on that. And of course, this rate, we are talking at least around $50 million or more in the EBITDA when this contract starts compared to what we made on that boat last year, yeah. The Skandi Hawk, we saw an increase on the day rate with about 30%. So it helps a lot. The Skandi Kvitsøy is the highest PSV contract ever I got. It was ± AUD 70,000 a day, yeah.
So it yields on the North between $25-$27 a day. On that end, of course, it's quite good for a PSV, yeah. Amazonas has been trading the spot the last year or two in Brazil. And of course, the rates are now back and perhaps also higher than it was before the downturn started, yeah. And so the rate here is, let's say, in the middle between $75-$80 a day for the boat, yeah. Not the Norwegian, so only the boat. So it's a decent income on her. And then I mentioned the Rio, yeah. And what is interesting is, of course, I see some of the analysts. You get these from Petrobras, yeah, showing the results or the preliminary results from the tenders, yeah. And then you call us and ask what we think about it, yeah.
If you look at the tenders, it's something they call VTC on when they give the numbers, yeah, the rates. So virtual time charter, or what they call it, yeah. The interesting is that due to and I had that on the last this one. You see on the slide here, there is something called PEOTRAM 2023. And of course, due to the very good performance, of course, we have been number this year, we were number two. Last year, number one. And of course, that gives us so when you see the VTC, the actual day rate for DOF is 3% higher, yeah. Because they normalized. We can be 3% higher compared to the competitors without that ranking. So they normalized it down with 3%, yeah. So the rates so it's actually money in it. Of course, 3% on $75,000 a day is a bit, yeah.
So that is the deals we have done so far. We have, of course, done quite a few smaller deals. But this is, and I come back to Maersk Installer . And as I say, it will hopefully come quite a bit more, yeah. So this is the Maersk Installer , yeah. So we took it on late last year. And of course, a bit of pressure on us. And we had already rushed our revision now and had already, I think she was ready around the 20th of April. And she went on our first job, actually, for OKEA in Norway on the 25th, I think. And then now she is in Holland, actually repairing a cable for a bottom-fixed wind farm. And as you see, we have a good backlog now. But we have a gap in July, yeah.
Of course, we have quite a few leads on that. We expect to fill that. It's happy with that. I think that was, I guess, in the backlog on the backlog for the fleet. This was the highest risk we had in that backlog, yeah. And then, of course, to give you, let's say, an example of why we thought this was a good idea. This is the economics on the number five client here, the longest project, the number five. Of course, it's going to be between 100 days-150 days. We expect it to be closer to 150 days. It might also be that we have to extend beyond that. Then the revenue, depending on how long it's going to be, $19-$29.
And then we expect then what we call a gross margin EBITDA on the project around 3.5-4, yeah. So of course and then so that's, of course and it looks good. And of course, we also have started to build backlog for next year. So I think she will become a decent earner for us going forward, yeah. Then a snapshot a bit on going forward or on what happened in April and what we see the next quarter and on the regions. And Atlantic, they had, let's say, a decent quarter for quarter one to be that time of the year in the Atlantic region. But of course, project activity, much more projects ramping up then into second quarter.
And so of course, we expect activity in that region and the revenue and of course also then the margins to or the EBITDA to increase in the quarters coming, yeah. Normally in that boat. Of course, they are earning the Maersk Installer. And of course, also she will contribute then from, let's say, from April onwards. High backlog, very high backlog. And still a few gaps. But of course, I see that we have leads and variation orders and extensions that probably will fill most of the gaps, yeah. So it looks quite OK. And APAC, at least mainly first half 2023. And of course, they were lagging the rest of the world. But quarter one now has been good. And the backlog for second quarter is what you can call 100%, yeah. So it's fully booked.
You can also say that third quarter is very high backlog. So yeah, I think it's going to be a record utilization on the APAC fleet in 2024. And so it looks good. And of course, then with higher utilization, of course, you also then can increase pricing, yeah. So it looks good, much better than it did same time last year, yeah. And the highlight on the backlog was extension on the Skandi Hawk in the Philippines with Prime. So in North America, it's of course, the main business is the two boats in projects in Guyana. It's a long-term contract in Canada. And then we operate two deck boats in the Gulf of Mexico, yeah. So also, the Gulf of Mexico market looks, it's active. It's fewer boats. And of course, pricing power is stronger than it was a year ago.
So also there, it looks quite OK. In Brazil, we have won quite a few jobs in quarter one. I guess it's not a secret that we expect more to come, yeah. We continue to work with the three boats on this PIF project. That has been a good earner for us. We expect that to continue. It's interesting to see now, of course, apart from the well-known anchor handling and pipeline. Of course, both the Achiever and the Salvador are open for a new well later in the year, yeah. So of course, it's interesting to see how that pans out. Of course, it's quite, you could call it, multiple opportunities for both of them, yeah. It's not a bad position to have two nice construction boats coming available in such a hot market, yeah. Let's see.
So all in all, looks good on the Brazil front as well. And as I say, of course, it is we are waiting for the pipeline. And then we are waiting for one more anchor handler. And we are in negotiations on the Achiever and the Salvador. So let's see how that pans out. Dan, Hilde? Oh, good morning .
Yeah. This is our first reporting in U.S. dollar. The numbers here are based on management reporting, meaning that we consolidated the DOFCON 50%. We have changed the functional currency of five companies for this quarter to avoid too much noise on unrealized currency. But there are still some companies to go. So I will come back to that. So operating revenue of $330 million versus $295 million. And an EBITDA of $114 million versus $104 million. The gain from sale of assets, that's the sale of Skandi Captain, which was delivered in March.
The gain would be much higher if we didn't do a reversal of impairment in Q4 last year. But at that time, we knew that the vessel would be sold. Depreciation of $44 million, which is higher compared to the previous comparable quarter. The main reason for that is that we have two more vessels. We acquired the Skandi Hera and Skandi Darwin after balance sheet date last year, after March, in April, May. So that impacts the depreciation. But also the fact that we have higher book value of the fleet after we have reversed some impairment. So that gives a net profit of $70 million compared to $69 million previous quarter. Financial income of $5 million versus $3 million. And financial cost of $31 million versus $41 million. And net currency, realized currency is $5 million. And net unrealized is $26 million, which impacts our result.
The reason for that is because we still have functional currency in some companies, mainly Brazil. So the U.S. dollar has strengthened significantly towards both NOK and BRL. So the main number here is from our Brazilian activity, where we still have two companies who report or have functional currency in Brazilian reais. Taxes of $13 million. And that gives a net profit of $1 million on management reporting. You can still see that the subsea activity still plays a significant portion of our EBITDA. And when we look at what we would expect for first quarter, it's actually the DOF subsea segment that has outperformed. If you look at the balance sheet, here you see the increase in tangible assets from last quarter is the two new vessels. And also that we have did some reversal of previous impairment by end of last year.
The contract costs, that is a mix of mobilization cost to new contract. But it also is some leases that we book as assets. We have five vessels that we lease on long-term contracts. Two of them are back-to-back on an external contract. So that's part of this number here. The deferred tax has increased. That's due to reversals that we did in fourth quarter last year. Other current assets, that's mainly related to our DOFCON JV. Receivable of NOK 421 versus NOK 312. That actually reflects an increased activity within the group, especially DOF Subsea. Cash of NOK 350 versus NOK 317. If you look at the equity, that has obviously increased due to strong results after we did debt conversion by end of the quarter last year. It has reduced from year-end.
And the main reason for that is currency impacts and other comprehensive income. Because we still have, as I said, some companies who have another functional currency and U.S. dollar. The net interest-bearing debt is $566 compared to $597, the non-current interest-bearing debt is $566 versus $597. I will come back to explaining the interest-bearing debt and the movements this quarter. And the current portion of the debt, that's normal amortization. And it's also lease payments, which is going to be paid the next 12 months. Other current liabilities at $262. That gives total current liabilities of $430. If you look here, here you see the total assets. And you see the net interest-bearing debt. And you see the equity. So the equity is 34% by end of the quarter. And the net interest-bearing debt, the EBITDA, is 2.9, the same level as year-end.
If we look at the cash flow, so the operational cash flow is $110, which is significantly stronger than first quarter last year. The movements in the cash flow can vary season by season, and especially from the subsea activity. Just one example, the first half last year, the operating or the net working capital was quite weak. And that is due to projects when we complete the project and when we prepare for the project. But I would say that the cash flow here is more normalized, the cash flow, and with an EBITDA of $114. The net interest-bearing debt is $22. That's the paid interest compared to $50 last year. And the reason why it was so high last year is because that was when we did the financial restructuring. And we had to pay a lot of interest retrospectively.
The taxes paid here is 9% versus 12%. That's mainly withholding tax on a contract we have in West Africa and in Guyana. It's also a small portion of corporate tax. We have sold and delivered one vessel this quarter. That's the Skandi Captain, a vessel built in 2004, which was sold for $10 million. The CapEx in this quarter is pretty high. The reason for that is we have done a 15-year class of one vessel that is operating in West Africa, which was completed this quarter. But we have also took one class docking 1 year earlier than we were supposed to. That's due to that this vessel was off-hire. We wanted to do the docking at the same time. That's why it's pretty high this quarter. The net cash from investing activity is then $26 million.
Net payment of borrowings is $48. Approximately $41 is actually normal amortization or installments on the secured long-term debt. The rest is lease payments to external vessel owners. Here you see the movements, $78 net cash flow from operations after interest and tax. Then you have investments and financing activities and some exchange adjustments due to the dollar reporting. If you look at the interest-bearing debt, so this is the gross interest-bearing debt, including 50% of the DOFCON JV. The cash flow already mentioned, that's repayment of debt. And $44, that is actually the new charter contract with MODEC. So we took this vessel into our portfolio in March. But we haven't had any revenue on this vessel. But it impacts our interest-bearing debt.
As you saw from Mons' presentation of 100 days-150 days for this vessel, one contract, we can do $3.5 million-$4 million in EBITDA. It makes sense, even though it impacts our balance sheet. It will improve our EBITDA. Then the net impact on currency is $9 million. If you just see the secured debt here, $1.554, that is the secured debt with lenders or other financial institutions. We have the remaining bond loan in DOF Subsea. As you know, that is PIK interest. We may convert this loan in 2027 if we prefer. Then we have the lease. This is the total lease obligation that we have on external vessel hired in. That is also defined as interest-bearing debt. If you look at the development, this is a slide that we show in every quarter.
Of course, here you see where we really have increased our revenue. That also impacts the EBITDA. The margin is pretty stable. That is depending on type of projects we have from the subsea activity. I've just done a what is this DOF Subsea contribution to EBITDA the last 12 months? That is on average 75%. Of course, obviously, the interest-bearing debt decreased significantly after second quarter and after the financial restructuring. If we just look at the operation, as I said and also mentioned by Mons, the DOF Subsea segment has outperformed this quarter, especially in Asia Pacific, where we saw an increased activity in fourth quarter last year. We have seen the same into first quarter. They really have outperformed. We are also optimistic on the remainder of the year.
If you look at the Atlantic region, they are driven by projects in West Africa and in the North Sea. Here we completed a large 15-year class docking in the quarter. Continue very good performance in Brazil and high activity and also in the U.S.. Here you see this is the utilization, of course, impacted by the DOFCON JV. You see the same here. In the last 12 months, the EBITDA from DOF Subsea was $246. I will not repeat what Mons said on the Skandi Buzios. We are confident that this vessel will sail to Brazil in June to start mobilization and continue on our existing contract. But of course, it impacts the utilization, which was extremely good last comparable quarter. But you see that the EBITDA and the revenue has been impacted by the Buzios. Who has been off-hire?
No loss of higher earnings since fourth quarter last year. If you look at Norskan, you see we have a much better utilization than last year. And it was actually better than expected. And that is due to the Skandi Amazonas, who have more or less been 100% utilized in the spot market. We assumed that her contract with Petrobras would start earlier. So you just saw the press release that we have been awarded a contract with her. We expect mobilization to happen sometime in second quarter. But very good performance from that vessel. And that is the reason why Norskan is having a pretty good result in first quarter. And you see, which is good, that the EBITDA is increasing. In DOF Rederi, stable operation. As of today, all the vessels are on firm contracts. No vessels in the spot. We sold and delivered Skandi Captain.
Skandi Gamma, the impact on the P&L on Skandi Gamma will be seen from second quarter. You see that earnings here are also increasing. Utilization has been impacted because we have a vessel in transit from one region to another, which is covered by MOB fee, by the way. If you look at the silos, I will not go into this because I guess you are familiar with the terms on the existing financing for the four silos in the group. That is also detailedly explained in the financial report. What's important to see here is the secured debt. Part of it is due in January. Part of it is due in 2027 and 2028. We have this bond loan, as mentioned.
If you look at the updated gross and net debt, it's $807 versus $587, which gave a net interest-bearing debt the last 12 months to 2.4. And here you see the EBITDA, which was shown on the previous slide. If you do the same on the DOFCON, the net interest-bearing debt is 2.36, which gave a net interest-bearing debt to 2.2. But of course, the last 12 months on EBITDA in Norskan is impacted by off-hire in Skandi Buzios. In Norskan, we have not that strong numbers. It's $502 in net interest-bearing debt and net interest-bearing debt, EBITDA of 7.1. But what is good with Norskan is that the last 12 months, EBITDA is increasing. And based on the new contracts that was awarded two weeks ago, one week ago, we expect the earnings to increase in Norskan.
Norskan, mainly, well, 80%-85% of the Norskan debt is with BNDES. The first maturity of that debt is in 2030. It's fixed interest the entire period. So we are pretty confident with this company related to refinancing, even though they have high leverage. If you look at DOF Rederi, and this is DOF Rederi alone. Then you have Skandi Iceman in addition. But if you take DOF Rederi, they have sold four vessels within a short period of time. That has, of course, improved the net interest-bearing debt to EBITDA. We see they continue to have a strong EBITDA. We don't see any refinancing risk in this company. The debt will be additionally reduced after the sale of the Skandi Gamma, which will happen in April.
If you look at Iceman, I guess you have already calculated that this debt will be paid pretty fast after the new contract with Equinor. So that was it for me.
Of course, it's interesting to see Norskan. Of course, it's high gearing. But as Hilde say, very long-term debt with low interest rate. So of course, we're going to have that as long as we can. And of course, if you look at the anchor handling tender Petrobras issued last year, and you see it is starting to get awards, it is two points worth mentioning. Number one, of course, it was very good, as I said, discipline on the bidders. So nobody did anything stupid on the rates they bid. So it was good levels. And number two, of course, it looks like they will not take too many boats on the tender, meaning that we expect them to come back to the market later this year or early next year.
Of course, the interesting is, of course, that we know we expect the PLSV Rio and Amazonas. We expect one more from Norskan on the tender. Then, of course, Norskan own nine boats. Five of those nine are up for renewal in late 2025. Of course, if you then say you renew three, and then if the market stay at this level at the same level as in this tender and perhaps increasing a bit, of course, of course, the key numbers for Norskan going into 2025 and especially 2026, of course, if you believe the five boats will renew at this level, of course, will improve a lot. Of course, the cash flow EBITDA in Norskan, I expect to be on the renewal on eight or nine boats. Hopefully, it will be much better. That was the wrong way.
Sorry for that. Then on guiding, so I think we have changed the revenue. And of course, the revenue is always, let's say, difficult to guide on. It depends on the type of projects we do. And of course, also on change orders. But this is the range we see between $1.4 and $1.7. And then we have changed the EBITDA guidance. We had $470-$520. We are now lifting the lower end to $490. And of course, that is partly due to that we delivered a bit better than our own forecast in quarter one. And then of course, we see, of course, that the backlog and the projects and the schedule gave reason to be a bit optimistic going forward as well. So then let's see. We have the end. But I guess the message is that we believe we're going to live on north of $490.
And then we will tell you more about where we're going to hope we're going to end next time we meet here. So at least a good start, good backlog. And that's why we are increasing it. So depreciation, I guess Hilde talked about that. Of course, it's a consequence of that we reversed impairments last year, mainly. And on the rest of the net operating income, of course, it's a consequence of changing the order on the EBITDA line. And then on the interest cost, no change. On tax payable, no change. And on the CapEx, no change. So all in all, a bit more optimistic than we were in February when we delivered the quarter four numbers. On the outlook then in bold, we increased the guidance. And I'm a bit more optimistic. Have a high backlog.
And as I say, expected awards gives a good visibility for earnings in 2024 and 2025. And of course, the interesting is, and what I kind of like most perhaps, is we see Rio, Nova, as I mentioned, late 2028. We see Skandi Amazonas then well into second half 2027. We see Skandi Iceman starting now, 3 + 3 years for the Equinor, starting April, also into 2027. And of course, we talked about this is the picture of the pipeline. And of course, they have been bid a few of them on 3-year contracts commencing perhaps in 2025. So then, of course, you will have backlog on some of them perhaps to 2028. We expect one more on the anchor handling tender. We meaning backlog for that, actually, that we expect to commence in 2025. So you have backlog then into 2029.
So of course, what we see here is, of course, that we are building backlog then, at what you can call very healthy rates, very good margins. And we start to build backlog in 2026, 2027, 2028, and some of them into 2029. And that is, of course, on today's very healthy rates. And I think that tells a bit about how the market is. It's strong. You see the clients, as always, when the market turns, move from a short 1-year contract to longer contracts. And on the high-end side of the market, of course, there is very good discipline on the bidders. So I wouldn't say that the cycle will be long. But of course, at least we will be able, before summer holiday, to start building very healthy backlog well into 2028, 2027, 2029. And of course, that is something that makes me very happy.
Of course, if you say we own just some mats, if you say you own 43, 44 boats after the sale of Gamma. I said perhaps we do 10 contracts in the first half of this year. Of course, it's quite a big portion of the fleet that you will see start building long backlog. So that's why I'm saying we have been optimistic on 2024 and 2025. But I think I'm starting to get optimistic also, of course, beyond 2026, 2027. And it's funny. And of course, that's one of the of course, we see working on bids in the project segment, not many. Of course, we have shorter lead times than the big boys. But of course, you see now that we bid projects for 2027 already. And of course, that's perhaps one of the most interesting discussions we have on the tender side these days.
How do you price a job in 2020, 2027, 150-day job in 2020 or 2027? And of course, it is of course, you are gradually turning the heat up and see where it ends. So I guess my take on it is that I think we see signs that, let's say, the high activity and high earnings will continue not only for 2025 and 2026, but beyond that. And hopefully, we can show more on that in the next few months. So that was the presentation done. This is the appendix. We don't go through that. But this is an important slide, of course, refinancing by early 2026. And as Hilde said, of course, the debt that is to be refinanced in DOF Rederi after we sell the Gamma now, the net debt will be around $60 million again.
Of course, the last 12 months, EBITDA was in the mid-40s, wasn't it? So of course, it might be debt-free when we come to the end 2025. And then, of course, the rest of the main portion to be refinanced is in DOF Subsea. There was a 2.2x we had debt to EBITDA. So it's not a challenge. It's more a question of how we want to do it. So of course, we have a strategy where we want to end around the group, around debt to EBITDA around 1.5x and stay on that. We don't want to be debt-free. We want to stay around that neighborhood. So of course, that means that and of course, we expect to be there when we refinance. And of course, it's more a question of how do we do the refinance? How do we structure it? And that we have started to look at.
And how do we do it? One big fleet loan in Europe and stay with the Brazil financing. So we are looking at that. And of course, we want to get rid of the silos we're going to have want to get rid of so we can have free cash flow between group companies. And of course, we want to get rid of the strong covenants and, of course, start paying dividends. So that is priority number one. Now is to get on to that level, do the refinancing, pay dividend, and then see where we go after that. But it looks I'm getting more and more optimistic on that the debt will be reduced according to plan.
I see also that banks—we have—it's been a few years since we had so many incoming calls from banks and also new banks for us asking. They are calling Hilde and asking if we actually have something they can fund for us. That is new. It's looking good on that side as well. Then, I guess, the last important message on this, of course, is that the DOFCON debt, most of the Norskan debt, is very long and very cheap. We're going to have that until the end of it.
Danish Q&A.
Danish Q&A.
Yeah. We have received a question via the webcast. You have partly answered that already, Mons Aase. That is, when do you plan to pay dividend? What is the restriction on the existing financing? Already mentioned by Mons Aase, we are pretty confident that we will succeed on the refinancing. We will start that probably fourth quarter this year or something. It will be done during 2025. It's a very cheap debt with a favorable margin. There are restrictions on the existing debt related to dividend. We expect that we are on the level that Mons m entioned, 1.5 net interest-bearing debt. We believe we will reach that. I will not say when. We definitely have a plan to pay a dividend from this company. That will happen after we have done the refinancing.
So that was the answer on the question on the webcast. Is there any question here? Yeah?
Hi, Erik [audio distortion]. I had one question about Brazil and Petrobras. Since we saw the CEO being fired last night, I'm just wondering how that's going to impact your current negotiations with Petrobras.
No, of course, I haven't spoken to the guys in Brazil after that news came. And what's all right? So it's difficult for me to comment that. And of course, we expect, of course, business as usual. So let's see.
That's happened before.
Lukas Daul from Arctic Securities. On your guidance, your new guidance implicitly has a lower EBITDA margin than your previous one. It's like down from 36% to 33%. Is it more project work that you have included now? Or what is the driver behind it?
No, because as I said, the top line is difficult to predict. As a consequence, also, the margins. So it is, of course, it is a consequence of what type of project you do. So of course, if we just showed the Maskin Stola project for second half. And revenue, was it $19 million on the short part of it and EBITDA of $3.5 million? So there you have one margin. And then, of course, if you do the other one, for instance, on this Skandi Aase, that she partly replaced, she will go on, let's say, a contract with less subsea. And of course, there the margin is kind of 70%. So it's a type of project. And of course, that is, and there are quite a few other projects. Of course, there is a bit of purchasing. And of course, then the margin might be 10% on that.
So it is, and then, of course, we have a project in West Africa that we have responsibility for mooring of the whole spread. And then it might be that we charter in third-party boats with high revenue through our P&L. But then, of course, you don't get 50% margin on chartering in third-party boats. So that's why I'm saying to guide on margin, to guide on revenue is a bit difficult. But to guide on EBITDA, we are more, let's say, it's easier for us to do that.
Just one more comment there. Because I totally agree with Mons Aase. You have to look at the EBITDA. You saw on his first slide, the contribution from the subsea project on top of vessel hire has been $95 the last 12 months. That's, in my view, not the most, but a very interesting number when you are going to analyze DOF. The margin is very difficult to predict and also the revenue.
Okay. Good. Thank you. Then on the anchor handlers that you have been awarded with Petrobras. And there might be one more to come. Is there any CapEx that you need to take on those vessels before they commence the new contracts?
Yeah, it's always some, let's say, modest a bit of CapEx with our friends in Petrobras. So it's always some upgrades on systems, communication. But it's not any major big numbers. And of course, it's including our CapEx guidance for the year. And of course, it also depends on if it's just an extension. Of course, the CapEx is normally smaller. And if it's a new contract, new boating going in, it's higher. So I guess also on the I guess you have asked the competitors on the pipe layers. But of course, the boats that were renewed in I guess they were renewed, some of them, in so 2025, 2024, 2023, 2022 started 2021, 2022 started on contracts. Of course, on those, there is very little CapEx because you did the CapEx last time.
It is a mix of a bit of CapEx, no CapEx, and a little bit more CapEx.
Okay. So, PLSVs once they are in place, it should be relatively modest and.
Depending on when they started the contract.
Okay.
Yeah. But we'll come back to that one day, hopefully. We will hopefully come back to that.
Well, I guess you need to go on that summer holiday. And then when you showed the silos, obviously, there is a lot of cash being accumulated in DOFCON as we speak.
Yeah.
I guess what's the intention there going forward? Has there been.
Of course, the intention, of course, is that DOFCON has paid a dividend to the owners or repaid debt. So there's been I think we have is it their own we have received $25 million a year in USD that company. It was stopped when Buzios happened. And of course, if you when you looked at the debt level in that company, and of course, if you normalize for Buzios working, of course, you are well below two on that. And of course, our thoughts on it is, of course, that when Buzios is back, and hopefully, you have been, let's say, awarded a few new contracts giving long duration on longer duration on the backlog that in DOFCON we have today, it is natural to have a discussion to increase that dividend from DOFCON.
But of course, we have a partner that has to agree on that.
Do you have clarity on Buzios with regard to the insurance picking up the repairs and stuff?
Let's say, of course, it's a big, fairly big numbers. But of course, because we have the loss of hire have already been paid. The account payments on the repairs is flowing in. But of course, the final settlement is not done, of course, because we have not finalized it yet. But of course, we do believe that we have conservative bookkeeping on that and that we will get the cover we have assumed. So of course, I mentioned on Buzios, of course, we are not only losing the revenue in quarter one, but of course, we also, I think, was it for $5 million we have booked on cost on here in quarter one. And whether that is, I hope that is conservative. But it remains to be seen.
The CapEx that you have put into Buzios so far, has that been reflected in the CapEx number you are reporting?
Part of the 38, that is the CapEx that we have, well, part of it if it's upgrading the vessel, etc. But this is a separate case. But just that we are receiving; we have started receiving payments on hull and machinery. So it's not only loss of hire. So this is regular payments when we have reached certain milestones, etc. But as Mons said, it's a large case. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah. And as you said, we are booking cost on it every quarter. So hopefully, I hope we have been conservative. But let's see.
Good morning. Yes, Haakon Amundsen in ABG. I just wondered if you can give some color on I mean, it looks like the vessel balances, obviously, in all the segments looks pretty tight. Is there any new signals or new interest in new builds in any segments or interest from clients in kind of giving long-term contracts against new builds, etc.? Any new information there?
Yeah. Yeah. You can say it is. It is almost, I guess, it's not the secret that Equinor, for instance, are out for long-term contracts on ammonia dual fuel PSVs. I think tender went in yesterday. So let's see how that pans out. And then we see, of course, Petrobras are out also for PSVs long term. They want to have, was it ethanol dual fuel? So it would be good if they could agree to have the same. But that will not happen. And then we see, of course, also in APAC and North America clients looking at long contracts that are, let's say, fit for new builds. And of course, then you Equinor 10, 15 years, I think Petrobras will be long as well. And so you see that coming. But that is mainly on the PSVs side so far. So it is and then I don't know.
It might be that, but of course, on the high-end side, the big anchor handlers and the big construction boats, of course, we don't see that at all. And of course, it's and of course, my view on it, of course, we have seen a few people now ordering some, let's say, small, medium-sized construction boats at very at what you can call high prices, $130 million-$140 million for a 250-ton crane boat for delivery in 2027. And of course, it's at least it tells what expectations they have. You don't order a boat for delivery in 2027 for $130 million-$140 million on spec if you don't believe the market is going to continue for many, many years in a good level. And of course, we all of course, the consequence, of course, is second-hand values picking up.
But of course, and the interesting thing is that for us then, of course, if you look at the really big boats, the big anchor handlers, what would Skandi Iceman repeat cost today? And what would the pipelayer cost today? So it's, I don't think we will see any orders in those segments. So as we said, we are getting we see on term for anchor handlers now, of course, the rate levels are picking up a lot. So we are getting more and more optimistic on that side as well. So the North Sea spot has, of course, been a bit disappointing, I would say, so far this year. But the term side of it has been quite good. So now I don't even remember the question. But the answer was that, yeah, there are clients in all regions looking at it.
Of course, of course, we don't chase those PSVs tenders very hard. But of course, we have some insight on yard prices. That is going to be interesting to see what the dual fuel ammonia PSV is going to cost. It's not going to come cheap. So, it is so from a Norwegian yard today, I guess, you're probably talking for a standard 1,000 sq m PSV without the fancy stuff. I think you are talking $17 million now for a Norwegian yard. So, it's, and of course, you know, when our recent deal on a PSV was $25 million-$27 million in EBITDA on a two-year contract. And of course, they have to be prepared to pay, hopefully, substantially more than that if they want to have new boats. So let's see.
All right. Thank you.
Hello. Clarksons Securities. Most of my questions have been answered, but I'm left with one. It's on contract risk. One thing is building a substantial backlog. Another is clients' ability to swiftly turn around and cancel those contracts like we've seen in Saudi Arabia recently. Have you noticed any improvements in contracting terms this year or last year relative to previous periods?
Yeah. Of course, it's of course before the downturn, of course, I guess the main there was a lot the clients, of course, could ask you to do anything when the downturn started. So of course, the termination for convenience, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days against no fee or minor fee. And some lot of other stupid terms. And of course, that is fighting back now. So of course, it's if people want to do a new contract with us these days and have the possibility to terminate, of course, it's it is a termination fee that costs them a lot. So it could be 50%-60% to 100% of the full revenue under the firm period or on the contract. So it's fighting back on every corner on payment terms, on termination clauses, on maintenance days, on all the stuff.
Of course, we want today, of course, you don't take a contract if you are not happy with the terms.
And then one final one. You said banks are approaching, looking, or asking if there's something they can finance for you. And Haakon already touched upon new builds. Are they willing to finance any new builds?
As you know, we have said we have some priorities: repay debt , pay dividend. So for us, new builds on spec is, of course, not something we spend time on. But of course, we talked to a few banks. And I think they are and I don't know. When we asked them, I think they are saying without backlog, 50%, perhaps. So it takes a bit of cash to order a boat. And if you then go and order a pipel ayer costing $500 million, of course, it's not money that has 50% of that to order. But of course, if you get a 15-year contract on a PSV with Equinor or something like that, of course, it's quite different instruments you can do to do that. So then it's, I guess, another ball game.
So far, I don't think any bank will support any massive new building program on spec. It takes a lot of equity, which a lot of people don't have.
Thank you.
Christopher from SpareBank 1 Markets. I'm already late to the next meeting. So I might be extra late. You mentioned you're targeting a debt level of 1.5 EBITDA. On that debt level, you could be basically fully financed by banks. Is there still room for bonds? Or do you see that the future capital structure will be pure bank debt by DOF?
No. And I guess we haven't just started. So of course, what we want to have, of course, is full flexibility. We want to have one cash floating free, no silos. And we, of course, want to pay dividend. And of course, we don't want to go much below 1.5. So how to do that if it's going to be pure bank, if it's going to be a combination of bank and bonds remains to be seen. So go ahead. And of course, it depends on the cost. So I think.
Depending on price, terms, flexibility. Of course, we are following the bond market very closely. We see it very active. That's also an opportunity. But as Mons said, we have incoming banks who want to fund our activity. That's a very positive sign.
We don't want to have where we have to have a lot of amortization. So of course, we don't want to go very much below 1.5. So it has to be kind of a flexible financing where we can stay stable on the debt level.
Or a view that's a healthy capital structure and we believe is achievable.
Sounds like an RCF. With regards to the nationality of banks, I assume those would be typical Norwegian and Brazilian?
No, Brazilian. With no refinancing in Brazil, so BNDES will stay there on no refinancing. So in Brazil, it's only a small portion of the Norskan debt that is financed internationally and the DOF debt. The rest of the Norskan debt, of course, maturity from 2030 to 2037. So it's.
It's Nordic and Europeans, in addition.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. That's all from me.
Done. I think we are done. So thank you very much for listening. And.