Welcome to NORBIT's fourth quarter and full year 2023 presentation. My name is Per Jørgen Weisethaunet, and together with me today I have our CFO, Per Kristian Reppe. Beginning with the fourth quarter, the fourth quarter came in as a strong quarter for NORBIT. We ended our revenues at 396 million NOK with a EBITDA margin of 23%, giving them 92 million NOK in EBITDA. This is built from underlying growth in all business segments. For the total of 2023, we succeeded in delivering 1,519 million NOK, which is above what was our 2024 target, so this is reached one year ahead.
That's the reason why we, after the ordinary quarter representation, we'll give you an update on a new ambition going to 2027. So, when it comes to margins for the full year, as you can see from the chart, we ended at 26% EBITDA margin and a total of 392 million NOK. Our board has announced a dividend, it's based on earnings per share for the full year of 2023, of 3.1 NOK, which is a 71% increase from 2022. So, the ordinary dividend, according to the dividend policy, which says it should be from 30%-50% of the result to be paid out.
So 50% of the 3.1 is 1.55 NOK. And in addition to that, it's proposed an extraordinary dividend of 1 NOK, which we will explain a little bit later, where it come from. So diving into the segments, the segment Oceans, where we do a lot of ocean-related technology, supplying that to the global market, had a new record. Fourth quarter is, as you can see from this chart, historically the strongest quarter. This was also the case for 2023, where Oceans had 177 million NOK in revenues, giving also an all-time high margin of 65 million NOK in EBITDA.
For the full year, Oceans delivered revenues very close to NOK 600 million, which is a 35% increase from 2022. The EBITDA margin for the full year ended at 35%. So, here we're showing the revenue mix and how this is built and how it develops from 2020 until 2023. So, the main strategy remains to broaden the product offering. NORBIT is tailoring and adding features to our technology to address and open up a larger market. So from the total revenues of NOK 599 million, NOK 328 million is from the first-generation technology of our sonars. On top of that, you see the Winghead sonar that was launched in 2020.
On top of that, different other initiatives which is in the making. In the quarter, we also completed the transaction of our acquisition of a Canadian company named Ping DSP. It's a company broadening the product offering, adding to our sonar range. This is also sonar-related business. Going into Connectivity. Connectivity delivered a quarter at the same level as the quarter before, so Q4 ended at NOK 116 million, slightly better margins than the quarter before. And if you compare with the Q4 2022, it's a 44% increase. As you can see for the full year, it's been a very strong growth in Connectivity.
So we had revenues of NOK 540 million, up from NOK 308 million in the same period last year. A margin of 34%, which is an improvement from 25% for the full year 2022. If you look on the full year, you see, Connectivity started very on a very high activity level in the first half, and it has remained on a very good level also for the second half. So the breakdown on the revenues coming to the mix, as you can see, it's been growth on nearly all or over product lines. So the On-Board Units used for vehicle identification and tolling applications, et cetera, has grown from NOK 136 million to NOK 296 million.
Enforcement modules used for reading driving and resting hours remotely from tachographs has grown from NOK 37 million to NOK 80 million. Satellite-based tolling solutions has grown from NOK 48 million to NOK 60 million. And on top of that, the subscription and e-toll business, where we have a quite high percentage recurring revenues, has grown from NOK 77 million to NOK 92 million. So all in all, a very strong performance from all product lines. So, as earlier explained also, NORBIT utilizes its own factories. Approximately or north of 50% of the capacity is used to manufacture our own products. The remaining is sold on contract manufacturing terms. So this is what we report in the Product Innovation and Realization segment, together with some R&D services offered.
So, the revenues came in at 112 million NOK, which is a decrease of 25% from Q4 2022. As earlier explained, we're coming from a climate where we've had a lot of challenges in the supply chain, and we've been buying some components in the broker market at extraordinary high prices, and this has been invoiced directly to our clients. So if we adjust for this effect, and we'll show on the next page also, there is an underlying growth of... No, it's on par, sorry, it's on par on the quarter before. So for the full year, product innovation and realization segment has yielded revenues of 412 million NOK compared to 452 million NOK.
The average margin for the full year is at 13%. It was 10% in 2022. So the average margin for the full year is on the level we have said that is our target. As you can see, we had very high margins in Q1 and Q2. And the margins isolated in Q4 is somewhat dissatisfaction. Per Kristian will give you some more flavor to what's behind that. Yeah, as mentioned, this shows the composition of the revenues. NOK 319 million from contract manufacturing, NOK 86 million from the R&D services, and some proprietary products. On top of that, it's NOK 7 million in customer reimbursement. This was on the highest level in 2022, with 107. So then I leave the floor to Per Kristian.
Thank you, Per Jørgen . Revenues in the third quarter amounted to NOK 396 million, representing an increase of 14% from the corresponding period of 2022. Adjusting for the effect of customer reimbursements, which we invoice certain customers without any margin, underlying growth was 28%. Of this 28%, approximately nine percentage points were currency driven. EBITDA for the quarter ended at NOK 92.1 million, compared to NOK 66.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2022. This represents a margin of 23%, compared to 19% in the same period of 2022. Operating profit was NOK 63.6 million in the quarter, while net finance expenses was negative NOK 7.6 million. Tax expenses were NOK 13.2 million, while net income for the period was NOK 42.9 million. Moving to the segments.
In the fourth quarter, Oceans and Connectivity were the main drivers behind the increased profitability in the quarter. Segment Oceans reported 39% increase in revenues on the back of strong sonar sales and favorable currency development in euros and dollars versus Norwegian kroner. Gross margin was 74% in the quarter, an increase of 9 percentage points compared to the corresponding quarter of last year. This is driven by a lower share of sales on commission, as we acquired our distributor, Seahorse Geomatics, earlier this year, as well as a favorable product mix. The increase in gross profit was partly offset by an increase in operating expenses from mainly due to a strengthening of the organization, operating costs from Seahorse Geomatics and our latest acquisition, Ping DSP, bonus provisions, and a depreciating kroner.
In Connectivity, revenues grew by 44%, with growth driven by increased sales of enforcement modules for tachographs and units for satellite-based toll collection. Revenues were also supported by a strong euro against the Norwegian krone, with exports primarily to the European market. Gross profit increased due to higher revenue base, with a gross margin being approximately two percentage points down. Partly offsetting the gross profit effect was an increase in operating expenses, which is partly explained by a stronger Hungarian forint against the Norwegian krone, as approximately 50% of our operating costs are forint-based. The EBITDA ended at NOK 38.7 million, representing a margin of 33%. In segment PIR, revenues were down 25% year-over-year. However, adjusting for customer reimbursements of extraordinary material cost, underlying revenues were on par with that of the reported figure in the fourth quarter of 2022.
Gross margin was also on par with fourth quarter when adjusting for the above-mentioned reimbursement effect. Compared to prior quarters in 2023, the gross margin was, however, down, largely explained by delivery of a low-margin project, provisions for obsolete inventory, and sale of inventory at cost. The EBITDA result was NOK 3.3 million, particularly impacted by higher operating expenses, primarily due to higher payroll following a strengthening organization to support further growth in 2024, in addition to increasing operating expenses. Overall, we are not pleased with the performance in the PIR segment in the quarter, considering our margin targets. Delivery on the low-margin project is unfortunately expected to have continued negative impact on the gross margin in the first quarter, although we do expect some operational leverage as we forecast sequential growth. Next, the balance sheet and financial position.
Property, plant and equipment increased NOK 37.5 million in the quarter, following investments as well as an increase in right- of- use assets. Intangible assets increased NOK 6.8 million to NOK 303.2 million, explained by fair value adjustments in relation to the acquisition of PingDSP. Inventories increased NOK 16.8 million in the quarter, and the increase is driven by rescheduling of on-board unit deliveries from fourth quarter to January. Trade receivables decreased NOK 8.5 million, and trade payables was NOK 174.5 million at the end of the quarter, up NOK 10 million from the end of the prior quarter. Net interest-bearing debt stood at NOK 150.8 million at the end of December, a decrease of NOK 74.4 million from the end of the third quarter. Lastly, the cash flow for the quarter.
Cash flow from operations was NOK 161.8 million, explained by an EBITDA of NOK 92.1 million, a net decrease in the working capital of NOK 83.1 million, NOK 7.6 million in net finance expenses, and NOK 5.7 million in taxes paid. We invested NOK 66.5 million in the quarter. This comprises NOK 15.3 million in R&D investments, NOK 19.8 million in machinery and equipment, and NOK 31.4 million in relation to the acquisition of PingDSP and investments in shares in the EV charger company, Enua. For 2023, our total investments in R&D came in at NOK 60.2 million, in the lower end of our guidance, while investments in machinery and equipment were NOK 55 million, including leased equipment, in the middle of the updated guidance of 50-60 million.
Cash outflow from financing activities was NOK 78 million in the quarter, explained by repayment of debt and leases. With that, I give the floor back to Per Jørgen for the outlook section.
Yes. So, looking into 2024, which will be the starting year for our new four-year ambition plan, which we will present afterwards. In 2024, we target to deliver revenues in the range of NOK 1.7 million-NOK 1.8 million. This is supported by growth in all three business segments. First half year revenues is expected to be in line with the level we reported in the first half year of 2023. We also target to deliver EBIT margins, which you will see going into our new ambition plan, that we will increase the focus on EBIT margin and less on the EBITDA margin.
So, but the target for 2024 is also to have a EBIT margin in line with what we delivered for 2023. In addition to this, we still continue to explore value accretive acquisitions to add to these targets, which is purely organic. So, that being said, NORBIT yesterday was 29 years since we were established. And I think all these years has been just a preparation for what should come. And I feel it very motivating now to announce to you a new ambition plan, which will make life worth living to—for all our colleagues to be eager to get to work and deliver on these ambitions.... So, as earlier shown also from 2010 until today, we've delivered a good growth.
It's a revenue CAGR, on, north of 30%, per year. As you see, it's not been a straight line. There has been years, where it's been- I mean, NORBIT has also been exposed for several different crisis from, as the same, for, for the whole, business universe. But, our way of doing the business has helped us just to be, robust during the crisis and, to be agile, so we're able to continue to grow, afterwards. When announcing this plan, this is the third plan, after our listing.
So in 2018, we made the plan, which was the basis for the IPO in 2019, when we came from revenues of NOK 438 billion, we announced a target of 25% annual revenue growth and a target of more than 20% in EBITDA. What we delivered in the period 2018 to 2021 was a revenue growth of 22% and an average EBITDA in the period of 19%. So, sometime or mid-2021, we announced our 2024 ambition of NOK 1.5 billion in revenues, with the EBITDA margin more than 25%. This, we just now announced that we reached last year.
I think on this slide, you can see what we strongly believe that has helped us to be able to deliver on these plans. We have a very strong corporate culture. Under the logo it says, «Explore more.» This is really at the core of the identity of all our colleagues. Our number one priority in the history, and also going forward, is to recruit and refine the right people. We have a very opportunity-driven mindset, but it's also we're entrepreneurial and commercial.
We always start in the market, being a technology company, we could be tempted to think that the technology is the important part, but it's the challenges, the problems you should solve for someone, and it should be someone that are willing to pay for this, so you could get some profits to continue to grow your business. So we're fully market-driven in all our aspects, and we are very cherry-picking in which applications we take on. We're tailoring our growth strategy, and we are very agile and dynamic. The diversified business model, with the three business segments being very little correlated, has also been very helpful during some periods where maybe one of the business segments has some challenges, then the others could take more responsibility and carry us through. I mentioned the corporate culture.
I'm not going to explain that today, but it's been very important for us to spend lots of time on the culture and to maintain and develop the culture. And so today, Norbit is 500 employees, and we strongly believe that working on the culture, ensuring that all managers inside Norbit is working as leaders, executing leadership, much more than management, is what should underpin and enable us to deliver also on this ambition plan. We see that with a lot of challenges in the world, there is a strong need for technology. Some of these challenges, trends are well-suited for Norbit, especially the blue economics. We see that the geopolitical unrest also requires technology, and some of the niches, some of the applications in this segment is well-suited for Norbit.
Renewable energy, safe and green mobility, digitalization operations, and the demand for technology made in Europe and made in Norway is strong. So, also, when going into a new period, we made some strategic priorities. These strategic priorities is of a nature where they could be shifted faster. The culture lays fast. The core ideology is the same as it was many years ago. The strategic priorities, we adapt much more agile. Priorities as of now is to continue to broaden the product offering and remain market-driven with tailored technology. As we accumulate references and as we grow, we also accumulate skills, enabling NORBIT to take on larger opportunities, which we express as going from niche to notable.
We will remain diversified, and in addition to focusing on broadening the product offering, we will focus on broadening customer base. This is especially attractive in the connectivity segment, which is the segment that has the highest customer concentration. Being a slightly larger company year by year, we see that focusing also on operational excellence and focusing on scalability is utmost important. We see a strong potential in getting even better margins by focusing on scalability. This will give good results in the planned ambition period, but also this is what enables us to deliver a new plan with further growth also after 2027. So inside NORBIT, we highly regard the autonomy as very important, meaning that we have strong business units, which are allowed to make good decisions every day.
But still, we also build a strong NORBIT overall identity to ensure that we prioritize the opportunities, which is the best overall for NORBIT. And of course, we will continue to explore value accretive acquisitions. So to the target, coming from 2023, NOK 1.5 billion, ambition for 2024, NOK 1.7 billion-NOK 1.8 billion, and ambition now for 2027 is NOK 2.75 billion in revenues, yielded from organic growth. In addition to that, we've added a number to say that with some targeted acquisitions, we should be able to deliver revenues north of NOK 3 billion in 2027.
Per Kristian will give us some more flavor to the different financial figures in this, but I want to point your attention to the target on EBIT margin that we plan to have in the range of 20%. So with that, I leave it to Per Kristian to give some more details.
Thank you, Per Jørgen . In the strategy period ahead, we aim to deliver 16% revenue CAGR, an EBIT margin around 20%, a return on capital employed of around 30%, and maintain a conservative leverage policy in which our net debt to EBITDA over the cycle target is 1-2.5x. Since 2019, Oceans and Connectivity have been the main two segments where growth has been the highest and where we have focused our R&D investments to scale. In our ambition plan towards 2027, we are targeting equal growth across the three business segments. Growth within Oceans and Connectivity will continue to be driven by a broadening of the product portfolio by innovating new technology solutions. We see several untapped opportunities that provide foundation for continued growth in these segments.
In segment PIR, we have set a target of NOK 750 million, and PIR consists of both R&D services that we sell externally and internally to the other two segments, as well as contract manufacturing. We definitely see that there is an increased need for more R&D services in order to grow Oceans and Connectivity, which fuels revenues in the PIR segment. But in addition to that, the growth in contract manufacturing, we see a lot of interesting and attractive market opportunities, but the growth in PIR is largely dependent on that we are able to deliver an attractive return on that investment. In addition, in the ambition plan, our group blended EBIT margin is around 20% in 2027. This compares to 19% we delivered in 2023.
In the two segments of Oceans and Connectivity, where we base our offering on Norbit intellectual property, our ambitions reflect that we believe it's an attractive margin for developing advanced high technology solutions. Over the next years, we are targeting an EBIT margin between 25% and 30% in these two segments, and in both segments, we were in that range in 2023. In segment PIR, we are operating in a fragmented, competitive landscape. Around 75% of our revenues in this segment is related to contract manufacturing. Thus, the ambition of having an EBIT margin between 8% and 10% reflects what we think is possible to achieve in this landscape with a combination of R&D services. In 2023, we delivered 8% margin in this segment.
In 2023, we delivered a pre-tax return on capital employed of 29%, after consistently improving the return since the trough in early 2021. Our return on capital employed targets moving forward is around 30%. We aim to deliver that return through a combination of maintaining our margins, as well as working actively to optimize our balance sheet. This includes prioritizing the most attractive investment opportunities and managing our working capital in a growth phase. In terms of working capital, we aim to deliver an improvement with a target of 25% to revenues, compared to 30% average since the start of 2021, and 27% last twelve months. After a period with a very challenging supply market for raw materials, we see signs of improvement, which allows us to work harder on optimizing our inventory turnover, where we see room for improvement.
This slide summarizes our approach to capital allocation and how it supports our growth ambitions. As part of the capital allocation framework, we will continue to remain a financially robust company, supporting the flexibility needed to grow towards the target set by investing and employing capital in our creative R&D projects and expanding production capacity. In order to accelerate growth beyond the organic target, we will continue to explore value creative acquisitions through our defined criteria, which again, we'll say, a few words about later on this presentation. Capital left shall be distributed to the shareholders, subject to the dividend and the financial policies. Priority number one is to maintain a solid balance sheet and protect our financial flexibility, making sure that we, at all times, have a prudent capital structure.
With a net debt to EBITDA ratio of 0.5 and a liquidity buffer of NOK 530 million as per the end of the fourth quarter, our balance sheet is rock solid, allowing us to invest, pursue strategic acquisitions, as well as distribute dividends to our shareholders. Our financial policy is to maintain a net debt to EBITDA ratio between 1-2.5 times. The interval allows us to dynamically prioritize how we allocate capital. In a scenario where we are above the interval, we will prioritizing allocating our operational cash flow for debt repayments. In a scenario where we are below, like today, we will have capacity to allocate additional capital for investments, acquisitions, and dividends to our shareholders. Organic investments have been the primary driver for us reaching our revenue targets in the period behind us.
We will continue to invest in R&D projects with an attractive risk-adjusted return profile in order to continue broadening the product offering in Oceans and Connectivity. In 2024, we expect to allocate between NOK 65 million and NOK 75 million in R&D investments. Over the strategy period, we anticipate that the nominal level will increase each year, with a target to be between 3%- 5% of revenues. Investments in machinery and equipment are expected to increase this year to NOK 90-NOK 100 million. This is well above the historical average, partly as a result of under investments in 2023, and also due to expanding SMT capacity with two lines, as well as investments in a new production line for the tachograph enforcement modules in segment Connectivity. The investment level in machinery and equipment will heavily depend on our product roadmap and the strategic priorities that we make.
As a reference point, the nominal growth we have experienced since 2019 to what is our target in 2024 is approximately the same as what we target in the strategy period from 2023- 2027. Since 2019, we have invested an average of NOK 50 million per year in machinery and equipment. In terms of floor capacity, our last investment made was in 2020, where we doubled the size of the Røros factory. Due to certain capacity constraints in production, we expect to invest between NOK 50 million and NOK 75 million to expand our factories to be able to deliver on the ambition plan. Now, with that, Per Jørgen will say a few words about our approach to M&A, as well as our amended dividend policy.
Since the IPO, we have done a couple of acquisitions, and we've chosen some of them to show the dynamics and in the focus. The acquisition of iData, which is our Hungarian daughter company, which for Norbit was a jump start in the connectivity segment to get a more a subscription-based business, where we do fleet management and toll service activities. As mentioned in the last quarter, we included and welcomed Ping DSP, a Canadian company, having a very strong technology in the sonar segment. We welcome them into the Norbit family, where we see lots of synergies in the market. The Norbit global market platform for ocean-related technology will and has already started to-...
to enable Ping to grow through this extended market access. Talking about market access, it's worth mentioning Seahorse Geomatics, that has been our North American distributor for sonars since many, many years. During last year, we chose and agreed with the owners of Seahorse that they also should be welcomed into the NORBIT family. So we now do direct distribution with these brilliant colleagues in the North American market, and through that, we see that we've been able to further strengthen the footprint and broaden the market and gain more traction.
The acquisition of CPS, a company working on IoT-related products, was acquisition where we really got hold of top talent in the connected IoT space, which is very important for the future product portfolio inside connectivity. So when working on these acquisitions, we have some focus areas. There should be some clear synergies, as shown, either on the technology side or on the market side, or both. We are very focused on that we should believe that it should be a strong cultural fit, there should be a clear synergy, and the acquisition should always be value accretive for all of our shareholders.
As Per Kristian showed, in the capital allocation framework, then number 4 and at the bottom of the list was distribution of dividends. This chart shows what's been paid of dividends after we IPO'd and became listed in 2019. You see, as explained earlier, the proposal from the board of 1.55 NOK per share in ordinary dividend for 2023, and extraordinary dividend of 1 NOK. We've been asked some questions in the past, given that we in the capital allocation framework has shown a range that we should have an NIB over EBITDA in the range of 1-2.5, where we've been way below.
So, it's proposed some clarification in the dividend policy. The policy itself remains the same, but it's amended wording to show that excess... potential excess capital could be distributed to the shareholders. So I think with that, we conclude our presentation, and we could see if there are any questions.
So we have a few questions here, and I think the ones here at the start at least, this is probably to you, Per Jørgen . So, in Oceans, could you elaborate on the end-user split and what will drive revenue growth in the sonar segment the next four years?
Mm-hmm. I think it's a very interesting question, because the end-user space is a combination of a lot of different users. I think we addressed lot of different segments. We see that we have scientific segment, we have construction, we see an increase in the renewable, an increase in security, and lots of different segments. So it could... It's both private, it's public. The sub-bottom profiling part has also been attractive for us. So sorry, I mean, the seabed mapping has been a very strong part of what we have delivered since these many years. So going forward, what should drive the growth is to continue to broaden the product offering.
We have a couple of sonar platforms where we tailor new features to open up the market for new users. In addition to that, we will launch new products, as we did last year, also with the Guardp oint surveillance sonar.
There's a question with regards to connectivity as well. OBUs have been the main contributor to revenue growth in 2023. What is the main driver here? Could you quantify the revenue growth expected from EU's third mobility package in relation to the tachographs and what your VDO's market share is?
Yeah. So, to the final part first, on the tachograph side, where we have... I think we could point back to an announcement we did of a frame agreement with a German blue chip client that is the market leader in the tachograph space in Europe. So, estimates we've seen is that they have, like, an 80% market share. The question related to EU's Mobility Package is, I mean, for those not being familiar to this, EU's Mobility Package is an addition to the directive on tachographs, where we see that it's now increased the utilization of the tachographs, not only for driving and resting hours, but also for registering Cabotage activities, et cetera.
Through this, it comes a demand for retrofitting tachographs also then with these enforcement modules from NORBIT. So this expands the market. The speed of that, and the magnitude of that is not quantified. So I'm not going to quantify that, but this is significant for NORBIT, as you could see from the frame agreement announced last year.
In relation to the OBUs, what's the main driver for the revenue growth in 2023?
So the main driver for the revenue growth in 2023 on OBUs has been, as you saw that first half year, we had a very strong growth. We had some very good contracts from some European clients. This has been a result from our drive in migrating the business from pure tendering activity to more business-to-business relation. And this comes from a shift where we see that several countries in Europe is adapting to a more private toll tag issuing activity, where the insurance companies enters this arena. And NORBIT is very well set up to work as a technology partner for these insurance companies. So that's been very vital to this growth.
So, this is a question you probably would like to answer as well. R&D is obviously for you as a company to reach your targets, probably important, I guess. Why work for you and not another company? How do you attract talents?
Yeah. No, I think it's a good question, why work for NORBIT? But, I think it's also a matter of, if you're good enough as an engineer, you would be accepted among the colleagues, and you could blossom and be a world-leading engineer. But if you're not really, really eager to be a Champions League player in electronics design, you should rather work for someone else.
How do you differentiate yourself from competitors in oceans when it comes to sonar production? What is the key difference?
So, if the question is related to production, I think what's special for NORBIT is that so we say that, "Okay, we'd like to be in control of our own destiny." That's why we have vertically integrated our business, so we do our own in-house manufacturing. So making a sonar, it's a lot of applied physics. So, instead of then depending on lots of external companies to do this, we've built up capabilities in-house, so that we control also the manufacturing process. The beauty of that is that we're in a position where we can be much more agile than we would have been if we did as some others choose to do and manufacture externally.
Mm-hmm. Question regarding financials. On the planning to 2027, could you say something about cash flow and targeted cash conversion rate? So, when it comes to cash flow, I think, so what we've said is, is that we aim to deliver an EBIT margin of around 20%. And I think based on that, it's possible to read what would be the implicit EBITDA margin based on our reported numbers as well. And we have also said what our target is when it comes to working capital.
So I think based on those two metrics, you should be able to draw up a cash flow profile for the company in addition to the guidance we have provided for investments. So, I think that was the answer to that question. So, question to you, Per, again. Could you elaborate on the move from niche to notable?
Yeah. So we've had as a clear strategy, tailored technology in carefully selected niches. For NORBIT, what is the right opportunity? So it's a question of choosing the right opportunities. For NORBIT, we've said that if we could find a problem in the world, that we can apply technology and make something to overcome this problem or make life easier for someone in a way, so that they're willing to pay us lots of money to do it, then that's one good criteria. The other criteria is that the scalability in this niche should be in the right level compared to NORBIT scale. We're not looking for opportunities that really could quadruple NORBIT the next half year. Some opportunities are too big.
They're meant for Google and Microsoft and companies like that. But as we grow, what is the right level of scalability in a niche for NORBIT also will grow. And what we see is that maybe we're at a scale now where you could see that some opportunities is they are of a size that it's not worth calling it a niche. So I think that's really the difference.
Okay, good. I don't think there were any more questions on the web, so-
Okay, so then thank you.