Good morning, or good afternoon, everyone, depending on where you are in this world, and welcome to a business update from Omda. We had some technical challenges today, so it's on Teams, but hope that it will do the trick. You can type in questions in the chat, and we will attend to them later after the presentation. All right, the business update focuses on two areas. It's on M&A and an update there, what's happening, and it's on, you know, the ending 2024 and into 2025. So what's happening then? So, that's it. Let's give a presentation, Sverre. Let's get the show on the road.
Sure. We're now going through the agenda first so that all of you can see what we're going to talk about. And we have two great news this time, two acquisitions. So the number point one and two here are related to M&As.
On M&A and an update there, what's happening. And it's on, you know, the ending 2024 and into 2025. So what's happening then? So, that's it. Let's give a presentation, Sverre. Let's get the show on the road.
Sure, we're now going through the agenda first so that all of you can see what we're going to talk about, and we have two great news this time, two acquisitions, so the number point one and two here are related to M&As, and the first point also includes Predicare, which came in earlier, but we have got some questions and feedback from many of you that we should focus more on information about the targets we acquire, so we will focus a bit on those three targets as the first point today, and then based also on feedback from many of you, the business status, the performance, and also the bridge to our future numbers, and especially then in 2025, so we thought this agenda with the outlook both from 2025 but also initially how I think things will move into 2026 and 2027.
So we will do that and go through also the actual measures done on the cost side to secure the margin, and at the end also we've heard from many of you that speaking about cash and cash operations, working capital, etc., that we will update you on that as well, making sure everybody understands the same thing, so hopefully so many questions and feedback we've got that this will answer the most of those, but as Einar mentioned, although we are in Teams this time, not in our normal studio, we would like you to type in your questions as we go, and then we can go back and answer those at the end of the presentation, so let's now move on to number one and within our emergency sector and the two acquisitions made, and one made a few weeks ago and another one published today, Averia.
And just to explain why we are acquiring companies like this and where these companies are fitting in. What is emergency really? What is it about? And I think you all will understand that the criticality of software supporting users that are responsible for such events, as you can see in this picture, is obviously a very important role we have. And we have over time tried to create a toolset that supports a large value chain that in the end will make the emergency service better. And I will go through it now because the latest acquisition we published today, and also the previous one within emergency, is all connected and it has a role. And just to explain properly the processes within emergency and when every second counts.
First of all, before you have a business that actually supports the emergency, then you have a management to have to plan it. What type of resources should be available, whether it's ambulances, helicopter people, etc. That is also one type of software that is important because it's not easy to plan because different things are happening, like holiday things or fourth of July and stuff like that, meaning that planning such services is very, very important, so that is one thing, and the three next steps, or the user profiles there, one is the help seeker that calls in in such an incident, and then you have the operator receiving the 911 call and the emergency dispatcher that actually makes decisions to secure that the right help is given at the right time.
And all of these components have been put together to support a very good set of solutions that could support regional and national emergency services. We have this installed in many countries. And then in addition, you have from the previous acquisition we also have an ambulance software which is divided into two user groups. One is the ambulance personnel that navigates the ambulance. And then you have the people working with the medical service. And there are two types of software. And as you see on the right-hand side now, it is actually a new type of software that has come in that brings us into the acute hospital in addition. So that is the acquisition of Averia we announced today and also Predicare announced a few weeks ago.
And if you see on the bottom part of the slide here, you will see that the acquisitions that have been done over the years, how are their role in this process. And as you see, all from Optima on the left side that support the management user group, you have three of our acquisitions actually supporting the help seeker operator and the emergency dispatcher. And then you have Paratus, Averia, and Predicare helping on the ambulance personnel side and acute hospital side. So all in all, I think we can say that our history here and the way to create a platform through acquisitions has given us a competitive, very strong national position. So all in all, this has all been done through M&A.
Just to give you a brief history here, we acquired 10 years ago almost, AMIS here in Norway, which was the first type of operator software. Then in 2018, we acquired Paratus from Saab in Sweden. Those together support many of those user groups. Then when we acquired Carmenta, we also acquired Optima, which we have been cooperating with for many years. All of those together have brought us to a value chain. Up till today, where we also acquired Averia in addition to Predicare a few weeks ago, we have managed to create a complete value chain for emergency that is very, very strong. It is important when you see our acquisitions; they are there for a reason. There is an industrial logic behind it. We are coming back now to, of course, the financial logic as well.
And now, if you look at our website, you will also see that the customers, when they dive into our website to look at what they want, they might find these functional aspects in different ways inside our website as well. So this is how the customer looks at it, as opposed to looking at it from a process-oriented way. And then the business, which is, of course, an important thing. The good thing here within emergency, we have decentralized emergency during the fourth quarter 2024. And we have created a new separate business entities, Readiness, Incident, Acute Care, and Response. Readiness delivering components to the management part of the business, Incident and Acute Care both delivering to control rooms, Incident mostly to bigger national regional customers, Acute Care also with smaller customers and acute entities.
Then we have Response that now has been increased as a business with Predicare and Averia. The integration is ongoing there. The good thing now, you've all heard about our buy, integrate, and build process. The integration here is really not very complex. The reason is that these type of companies and their software has been integrated already because Predicare is about a methodology, the RETTS methodology, which is used both in Paratus and also with Averia, meaning that we get a platform here that will support a complete process based on the same methodology. All in all, the business integration will not be very heavy.
The good thing is also after the decentralization here is that the integration is related to one smaller business entity and will not be a problem when it comes to looking at longer processes and that will hit our margins as we have been discovering earlier years. That's a good thing with scalability and decentralization. Then based on this, Einar, these two logos, you could probably explain a bit more about the business part of it.
Absolutely. Let's take the Predicare first. We have had some comments that we didn't, you know, really properly present the Predicare acquisition. We sent a press release. So we thought we'd use this opportunity to give a little more details on the transaction and the financial logic behind it and the consequences and the process and terms. First and foremost, we became aware of Predicare after the acquisition of Paratus in 2018. We realized that the triage engine within Paratus belonged to another company, namely Predicare. So we approached Predicare and had the first dialogue in 2019, made the first offer for the company in 2020. They went on their own, but we maintained dialogue and in late June this year, we agreed, you know, terms to acquire the company. We signed the term sheet with them.
The SPA was signed in October. It took a little while to complete for various reasons, as it sometimes does with, you know, entrepreneur-led companies. And we closed it in the first part of December. So that transaction is now formally completed. In Sweden, and in Europe, we require an FDI filing for a direct investment. So that will almost always, as a rule, delay, you know, and 25 business days. You should expect delay between signing and closing. The sales projected for next year on Predicare between 15 and 17 million SEK. And we expect a positive EBITDA and cash EBITDA. We agreed on transaction price of 23.5 million SEK for the company, whereof 12 million SEK in cash and 11.5 million in Omda shares.
We have had some questions and also some critical voices related to the way we financed it, but that said, to pay in shares was instrumental. We wouldn't have had a deal without it, and then you can always wonder if it was the right balance between it, especially if you look at intrinsic value of the shares, but it's what it is, and we still think it makes good sense, even in spite of that. There are some areas for improvement related to Predicare, and where we see you know synergies and upside potential beyond you know just you know changing ownership, and that is you know related to contract management, to pricing, to the business model itself, and to cash management.
So there are a lot of, you know, good things with the company and with RETTS, but there are also things to improve, which is a good thing. And that's on the agenda for next year. We just started working together and, so far, so very good. All right, Averia, same thing, same thing there. Also a company that we have known for many years. We actually had the first dialogue in 2015 with Carl Ahlstedt, the entrepreneur and founder, after we acquired AMIS. So this is, and we follow the company. But, you know, after we acquired Predicare, the discussions really advanced. And this was a very, you know, rapid transaction, but again, we know the company for years. And we signed the term sheet early in December and we are signing it today.
That is probably, at least for us, a new, a new record. Again, closing is subject to FDI approval, the same with Dermicus, and same with Predicare. We assume again 25 working days, late January, early February. We should be, we should be good to go. Sales for 2025. This is a small company. There has been, have been challenges for them being, being small, between 2.5 and 5 million SEK in sales expected for, for next year. We do expect a negative Cash EBITDA, break even at, at best. But not, not a huge number, maybe a couple, couple of million SEK. But this is, this is an improvement case. This is a turn better case. But there are a lot of good things, to, to build on here. The transaction, very limited fixed consideration. Upfront is very limited.
But then if they really succeed, there is an earn-out. And the earn-out period is from 2026 to 2030 and will be paid, paid out in two tranches in 2030 and 2031. And it's up to SEK 20 million. So again, this is, this is not a short sprint. This is, this is, a marathon. But we absolutely want to give, the, the company and the people a chance. And we think, it can be very successful. So that is, that is this transaction. But again, it's very light, as you can see on, on cash, on cash up, upfront. Okay. And, the areas for improvement here, first and foremost, as Very presented synergies with the other, Omda offerings within the emergency and acute care. There are things to do on the contracts, things to do on MDR certification.
And we have spoken about this before that, you know, size matters. It's increasingly challenging to be small and a small supplier. Are you too small to get, you know, be invited for dinner? And until you get invited for dinner, you can't, you know, really come in and participate. So, it's a chicken and egg situation. And even though Averia probably they have the finest most advanced products in this part of the industry, they have been too small to, you know, get a place at the table. So, that is what we hope to change with this transaction. We are very optimistic about what is possible here. And so great opportunity here for us. Great. Thank you, Einar.
And then, it's not only exciting to have the combo of Predicare and Averia, but also a very nice Christmas present that we actually have acquired also the AI and telemedicine company Dermicus, because this is also a company we've been looking at over time within our imaging business. Similarly here, as within emergency, we're working on processes and different areas within healthcare using imaging in different ways. And to securely capture, share, and collaborate is one thing. And the quality of imaging is one thing that is a Dermicus professional approach to when it comes to also use of AI to secure that the quality here is very, very high. So all in all, in our stack of components, Dermicus is a very, very good thing as an add-on to current business. So let's use the same summary here from the history.
We acquired Mawell in 2016, and then we became the leading player in the Nordics, adding a lot of business projects to our stack. And then we acquired KIBI in 2019, added also other market areas. And we also added other types of storage mechanisms and also encryption engines to distribute healthcare information. So all in all, these two parts of our history, we became strong in the Nordics. So now what are we doing now with the Dermicus? It's a multidimensional add-on to what we do. And it has been a while since we've made acquisitions in the area, but it fits very well if you look at it from our customer perspective.
All of these elements that we offer put together, we see that Dermicus is very much focused on the client side, on the user interface side, and is also going to be a separate business and a growing component, standalone as well. So all in all gives us a very strong offering. And then if you look at the business side here as well, there will be two business units within the medical imaging area, which secures that we can focus on the organic growth and Cash EBITDA and working capital internally. And then you see from the other M&As we've done previously are, of course, already integrated. So and when we signed today, we also have initiated an integration process to secure that Dermicus becomes a very good part of our offering. So I'm really happy about this.
The product is very advanced and it helps us integrate with our current customers' workflow. So that means that with our current contracts, we could add Dermicus functionality, and the mobile functionality into our current business, which is very important for a company like us that sell and upsell on our current contracts. So having said that, Einar, there are also some business processes here as well. Yep, and there certainly is. Dermicus, again, you know, nothing new for us. We had the first dialogue in 2022, so not going back as far as with Averia, but 2022 with the first dialogue. What happened then was that Dermicus, called Gnosco at the time, they were actually sold to Barco, the Dutch company, but they de-merged in the first half of the second quarter of this year.
They split up again after the initial merge. We continued to have dialogue with them even after they were sold to Barco. Then we continued the dialogue in June this year. We agreed during the autumn to proceed. We signed the term sheet very late October, actually last day of October. We are signing the SPA today. This again, the closing is subject to FDI approval. That goes for, you know, almost all software within the healthcare and emergency or acute sector. So in Sweden and in Europe. Here as well, we assume to have the approval end of January, early February next year.
Sales of Dermicus, and this is, as I said, they split out and de-merged from Barco and some because where, you know, remained in Barco. So if you try to look at the historic numbers, they will confuse you. So don't do that. But the sales for next year, approximately 14 million SEK. We have agreed the transaction price with fixed consideration of 19 million SEK, whereof 12 million are payable at closing. And the remaining seven, they will be paid in 2027. So we'll seller credit on that one. Here as well, an earn-out, subject to the company or the founders reaching certain sales and cash EBITDA targets, there will be an earn-out up to 15 million SEK. The earn-out period is 2025 and 2026 combined.
And it will be paid out, assuming the second quarter of 2027, the same time with the seller credit. So that's how this is established. The areas for improvement or the upside potential, if you like here, I mean, the technology is second to none, very impressive. But there are some synergies especially related to existing contracts, and the current Omda contracts where we have opportunities and they have the product. So from such a perspective, it's a very good match. Also, of course, pricing and the business model, there's always something. And again, you know, being part of a bigger company is something that they are looking forward to as well. It is increasingly hard to be a small company. Okay. Over to you, Sverre.
Just before I hand it over to you again, we're on Teams this time, but if you have any questions, please use the chat function. We will attend to them after the presentation.
Yes, and now, as I mentioned, initially, we have had several feedbacks from investors that want us to be more clear about our guidance, be more clear about the actions taken to secure margin expansion, and also even more specifically, guidance for the next year, so we have tried to accommodate that and also focused a bit on explaining the cash situation. Some might have misunderstood how the cash also will develop through 2025 and onwards, so we'll also make sure that everybody gets comfort that everything is in order, so let's just go through some fundamentals. Let's start with the third quarter numbers, because when we explain how the business is going to develop and the cash EBITDA is going to develop, the cash EBITDA is what we measure internally, well, EBITDA is what you see here from the report, the quarterly report.
And what you saw in that report was that the emergency area was the one hitting us very much. Most of our actions that they have been taken in the fourth quarter 2024 is to address that. These actions are completed, which is a very good, very good news because that has to do with the run rate going into 2025. It isn't a problem that we had this slightly low margin. It was related to a specific thing. That means also it's quite clear how we could approach it when it is in specialized areas that we can focus on. What we have done is to. This is a business slide, but it is also there to explain properly.
What we see now is that, when you work on next year's budgeting, we see that the business areas that performed well in the third quarter would continue to perform well. We see that those five business areas on the left-hand side will perform cash EBITDA between 13%-17% in 2025 when you look at it now. As you can see, there's one sub-performer, LIMS, that is an investment area for us still when it comes to big customer projects and a very, very long project plans. So that is still that way. But even though we see that we will get a cash EBITDA between 13%-17% anyway, on average for those. The same thing actually happened when we look at the emergency side.
While all the others here had to get their margin going based on the phase-out of remote shoring, while on the emergency side it has been very specific related to decentralization, and that is now complete, and that secures roughly NOK 30 million in permanent cost reductions going forward, which means that those four business units you see here now, number one Incident and Readiness, Acute Care and Response, those will altogether perform roughly the same as the other five, so and when we split it up it was quite easy to see where to make the right decisions and secure the right measures. So all in all, that is now done, so we expect that this is going to be the average for the combo of these business areas. And of course you saw we have announced the acquisitions that will be integrated into Response.
So we decentralize, but we also include these two businesses into the response. Again, it shows also the scalability here that we will not disturb the other part of the emergency. It will only be a project inside the response unit, which is quite clear and then easy to follow. So all in all, the internal focus on cash EBITDA is very much under control. And I'll also explain properly how we think this will look in the longer term based on what has been delivered. And by delivered, I mean we have completed FTE, FTE reductions already. And based on that, if you look at the second half of 2024 going into 2025, we have reduced a number of FTEs making it possible for us to secure a margin expansion in the first and second half of 2025.
So what are these, what does this graph mean? Let me take point by point. If you look at this orange number one on this graph, you will see that we have decentralized emergency, which has made it possible for us to reduce dramatically, with the run rate into 2025. That is already done, meaning when we enter the first half of 2025, we think that it's possible to get up close to 20% EBITDA margin in the first half of 2025. Then, we have to recruit some Nordic resources, and we have also added some of the employees that come in through acquisitions. All in all, that means there will be a slightly higher number of employees than when we get out of the year with the current operations.
Then the third one is, of course, the remote shoring agreement expires in the beginning of the second half year, meaning in the first of or the 30th of June in 2025, and that is already signed, and the projects are already the phaseout of of these consulting agreements is already planned to be finalized. That means we have created a more sustainable level of employees through the fourth quarter 2025, securing a margin expansion that going forward will be close to what we have had as a target as a long time, but we haven't achieved it, and that has many of you asked us when will you reach 30% EBITDA based on the fact that we haven't done it in 2024, and now we're going to explain how.
The fact is the number of employees, combined with actual, stable low-turn recurring revenue that is predictable and growing, that is what makes this possible. Also, Einar, maybe you can explain why can't we just get 30% EBITDA in the first half of 2025 and wait to the second half of 2025?
That's a good question. I think we all need to be reminded about the seasonality effect in Omda. Again, we are accounting according to GAAP and Swedish GAAP Norwegian GAAP, and most of our employees they are either in Norway or in Sweden. That means that we have what we call the holiday pay effect. That is very pronounced, and that means that the salary cost, the recognized salary cost will always be lower in the third quarter specifically, compared to the other quarters. So the second half will always be, you know, more lucrative, but we need to look at it, you know, on average, and to understand that. You should always expect a lower profitability in the first half and a better profitability in the second half of the year.
That is the seasonality effect related to holiday pay, and very pronounced in Norway and Sweden. So as long as most of the employees are in Norway or Sweden, that effect will be visible in the accounts. Not much more mystic than that. But I have one question for you, Sverre. The number of employees here we see, are they, I mean, we just announced, you know, we're Predicare and it was just closed and we are signing two other acquisitions today and there are some people there. How does this all add up?
That's a very good question. And of course, they are included in those numbers, because that is what we actually have when we look at 2025. So we have to start with 2025 and in 2025 we will actually have all of them. So the point here is not to explain to you whether it's 263 or 266. It'll be very, very precise, but the point is a very important point. The trend based on the actions already completed brings us down there, and that starts already in the first half and the recruitments we are doing, based on the fact that we are phasing out the outsourcing. That is also included here, meaning that the new platform is what we think is sustainable for a business.
That is why we wanted to show you 2026, 2027 just briefly here that with the current staff, handling the current customers, current products with those acquisitions we've already done, we should perform roughly like this. You see the expected EBITDA margin interval added there. That is where we think we will run looking at the current business with those acquisitions included. That is important to emphasize. Maybe then when we get back to more specific guiding questions, we haven't really guided specifically, but based on what we see now, this is where we are running. Also here, as you can see from the two comments here, this is organic growth when you look at the fourth or 2024, and it's included acquisitions when you look at 2025.
As mentioned in the previous slide, that 2026 to 2027, we think that the 30% margin will be the ordinary place where we should try to start our margin expansion over time. Similarly that we stick to our 5-10% organic growth, going forward as well. That's where we are. The reason why we don't have 30% EBITDA full year 2025 in our guidance is, as Einar now explained properly, that the first half year after we have now reduced and also we have these phasing out of external consulting in the first half year, it will be 30% in the second half of 2025, which is our target. Then on average between 2023 and 2025 for the full year 2025 budget as we see it now. Maybe based on that, we feel that we have a good plan.
We feel that we even can provide you more comfort when it comes to cash, don't we, Einar?
Absolutely. Just before we leave this slide, you see the adjusted EBITDA. That is something we don't present very often. The reason why we mention it here is that, linked to the cost reductions and reduction of the number of personnel, there may be some severance packages or you know, non-recurring cost items. If there are indeed you know, non-recurring cost items, we think it's fair to single them out. You can see what the you know, business going forward and what are indeed one-time effects. We don't do it very often, but this may be one of those instances just to make it easier for you to establish a run rate picture of our operations. Cash, we said you know, in the previous quarterly calls that we are focusing on cash.
We have focused extensively, I'd say, on cash management and working capital improvements in the fourth quarter. This relates to four specific areas. One is what we mentioned before, the aged accounts receivable, to make sure that, you know, the money we actually get is transferred from the customer's bank account into ours. Again, I mean, we have more than 95% public customers. So it's not like we don't get the money or any losses there, but they can be slow payers and we need to put pressure on. And we've made substantial improvements there in the fourth quarter. Invoicing practice, we think we mentioned before, you know, when you earned an income, but you haven't invoiced it because maybe it's not usually wait until the end of the month or something.
So we are, you know, going through all the practices there and improving on that. The third and maybe most important, here in the big picture, especially now as we draw to the end of the year is the invoicing of the annual recurring revenue, and to do that as quickly as possible. So we have been much more agile this year than we were last year. And I should also mention that last year we introduced a new system, an invoicing and digitization system. It has been extremely good, very good, but we introduced it approximately a year ago and there were some symptoms and, you know, startup challenges we had to make it all work smoothly. And that delayed us a little in the invoicing and some should have been, you know, invoiced before.
They took a little longer, but that is working better this year, and the last thing is supplier terms, we did the terms with suppliers. Those four we're working actively on, and then, you know, also improving the cash situations, of course, to reduce the cost of the payable costs. So, and that is related to salary and personnel and to also other costs, typically, everything else, software, whatever, office lease, whatever it might be, and the base assumption for a cash position at the end of this year is probably in the neighborhood of where we were last year, and that, as you can understand, a decent improvement, really, you know, underlying because keep in mind that, for non-operational items, we have paid out NOK 10 million in dividend. We paid out the SEK 12 million for Predicare.
We have another NOK 10 million paid out for what was the last one?
Dividend.
Dividend, yes and so that is but despite all that, we think we'll arrive at approximately the same cash position at the end of this year as we did last year. Again, of course, provided that all the customers they actually you know pay their bills and invoices on time, so but in the neighborhood of that but not that far away. And especially if you adjust for the items that I mentioned. Okay. So we are doing you know we have really you know improved very much on the working capital and very happy because that gives I think gives us all comfort going into Christmas knowing that the cash is on our side. Okay, Sverre.
Yeah, I think the combo of the cash situation and the ability to continue acquiring and knowing that our business from the fourth quarter and onwards is actually performing much better when it comes to cash. I think we are just thinking that we have to stick to our ambitions and continue doing what we have been good at doing in the past, so I think what we have talked about today, the three acquisitions you see on the bottom part of the slide here, is definitely very good news for Omda, and I think we can continue based on how we see the business now is performing to do smarter M&As on that size, bigger M&As. We will also work on that, of course, then we have to look at the funding case by case.
All in all, we are quite happy with the platform into 2025. We also see that the organic growth and the profitability now is supporting what we actually want to do. All in all, I must say that although we've had struggled a bit during 2024 and someone asked me why didn't we decentralize the emergency sector before. The answer to that is that we had extremely important contract negotiations in different countries that were very important not to disturb. We postponed it by a decision, not a coincidence. We knew that it will hurt us a bit in especially in the second and third quarter in 2024. However, I think we made the right decision and we stick to our plans. Having said that, maybe we should look at see if there's some questions.
There really aren't any so far, but I'd just like to add one thing I mentioned about the cash situation. I said there are three things, and the last one was, of course, the share buyback. So share buyback and dividend and Predicare roughly NOK 30 million. Okay. There are some questions here. They are not here. Okay. For some strange reason. Okay. Again, I apologize for this. A bit unfamiliar with this. How do you estimate CapEx % of revenue 2022 and onwards? I guess maybe it's a typo 2025. Maybe it shouldn't be from you journalists. But we maintain the same guidance on CapEx. So when Sverre said 50, around 15% Cash EBITDA, that means, you know, around 25% EBITDA that would translate into that.
We haven't you know done anything on the CapEx guidance, but I'd say if anything, I would, I wouldn't be so surprised if it was, you know, 8%-10%. I would be more surprised if it was 10%-12%. So but we maintain the guidance. And there's one from you. Hello, Shahzad. What is your expectations on the number of FTEs and run rate personnel expenses for the 1st of January 2025? The run rate, we haven't published the run rate personnel expenses into 2025, but as you saw from the number of in the presentation, I can share that one. So we can let me see here.
If you look at this chart, it is not the exact number, but as you see here from the second half, when we go out of the second half of 2024, you see a number around 270, including the new acquisitions. That is important. And then based on the number of FTEs in the contract, it's not only the Filipino contract, but also some other consulting contracts that ends, we will end up roughly around that number when we enter 2025. However, when we get out of the second half of 2024, first half of 2025, then you will see the reduced number below 265 there, including the new acquisitions.
So all in all, compared to the sales, we think that that number of FTEs in the second half of 2025 will be supporting the 30% EBITDA or 20% EBITDA. That is really the idea, and the reason for not being able to have that run rate into the first half year is because of the consulting agreement in the Filipino part and also other consultants that will be removed. Without publishing the exact number, that is how it's going to go with number of heads. Okay. Another one from you, Shahzad. The question is, will you report revenue and cash EBITDA for each of the new four emergency business units in the 2024 annual report? The answer is no, we will not. We are splitting that up now.
So we will do our best to give you the information you need to, to make good decisions. But we don't plan to, we will report per business area. And then the last question was about Averia. And you write also, Shahzad, Averia has 6 million SEK revenue. It looks like 12 employees. This implies that Averia is running at a cash EBITDA loss, maybe in the range of SEK 3-6 million. If so, this will make it more difficult for you to achieve a sufficient level of profitability. What are your thoughts on this? Let me address the numbers first, and then you can address the business logic. First and foremost, no, they are not 12 employees. As you can see from the press release, both on our website and on NewsPoint, they are six employees. So that is half.
Again, as we said, there is, but we still can expect, you know, maybe a negative Cash EBITDA, but it's limited. So maybe in the order of between zero and 2.5 million NOK in that order. But considering what we are paying upfront for the company, you know, the negative Cash EBITDA, potentially, I said potentially, through the year is really what we are paying upfront. Okay. And then, we wouldn't have, you know, acquired it if we don't think that there is a substantial upside potential for us as well. So, what can we say about this? You know, why should Averia be more worth or more successful owned by Omda compared to being a standalone company? Well, it has to do with the actual contract situation.
We have several contracts with large regions in the Nordics that would like to have that type of software that Averia has, which is difficult for them to sell because it often requires tendering. And the good thing here is that it's already integrated with our RETS methodology. And also, since our ambulance software is also integrated into using the same methodology, we can create a value chain and package this with pricing and add-on modules that I have a really good reason to think that even though we have put a negative expectation between NOK 1 million and NOK 2 million-ish, as Anna mentioned, our goal is obviously that we wanted to get positive as soon as possible. And I think this is one type of software that is quite easy to sell as an add-on because it addresses very specifically a continued workflow process that is already in production.
So we have a very good view on Averia combined with Predicare. We think that'll be a very good thing for us, actually.
Okay. There seem to be no more questions. So, knowing there is a little delay on Teams Live, we can give it a little time just to see if there are any more questions. No, doesn't seem to be. Okay. We thank you for participating. We know that we invited you on short notice. That is, of course, because we wanted to make sure we had all the agreements in place. So I apologize for that, but still hope you have enjoyed the presentation. Hope you like the news. You can see that we definitely haven't forgotten about M&A. We are focusing on cash and we are focusing on.