Hello, everyone, and welcome to the ReFuels fourth quarter presentation. Today we're gonna hear from MD and CFO, Baden Gowrie-Smith, and CEO, Philip Fjeld, followed by a Q&A at the end of the session. So if you have any questions, just add them to the chat. On to Philip first.
Thank you very much, Baden. Good morning to everyone, and welcome to our fourth quarter 2024 presentation, which, because we have an accounting year which is outside of the usual calendar years, is for the period January to March 2024. Just to highlight again who we are as a company and what we do, we today operate 14 large public access biomethane refueling stations across the UK. We have more than 1,700 trucks that go through our network on a daily basis. We're very proud to say that in the last 12-month period, we've helped our customers save more than 135,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions.
As you'll also see later on, we continue to have large expansion plans, and as such, the 14 stations that we've got in operation today is really only the start of where we wanna go to into the future. This is what a typical station looks like. Once again, I know we repeat this for every presentation, but sometimes I think it's important, and visuals say a lot more than necessarily words. And as such, you know, this is a typical station that we build. This is our new Newton Aycliffe station up in County Durham, in the northeast of England. Can refuel your 80 trucks per hour, 14 trucks simultaneously. This station can do 700-800+ trucks per day.
They're unmanned, and as such, are extremely, you know, very efficient ways of dispensing large amounts of 100% renewable and sustainable fuel into heavy goods vehicles. Looking at some of the key highlights, we've had strong underlying growth year-over-year close to 50%. Annualized EBITDA contribution, we'll look at that later on. Baden will touch upon that as well. GBP 7 million annualized, if we take the March number and annualize that, we're expected that to grow to in excess of GBP 1 million per month towards the end of 2024.
Also, later on, we'll touch upon what's happening in the biodiesel sector, which is important to us because we generate RTFCs, and we're now seeing what we believe are very strong and supportive moves in that sector. In this quarter, we've also opened one new grid-connected station, which is Aylesford, and our first private station, actually, for Waitrose in Bracknell. And once again, look at growth going forward of the five new stations that we're very excited to put into to build very soon.
And finally, we've been discussing with Foresight, the funder that we've got a joint venture with, for the existing station network, how we can simplify our portfolio and also continue to fund our growth going forward. I won't necessarily go into all of these. Some of them are, you know, we've touched upon already. But I think at the end of the day here, what's key to understand here is really the underlying growth that we're now seeing in more trucks being put on the road and a lot more customers buying into what we're doing, and as such, coming along on the adoption journey. This is no longer about a handful of large customers.
We now have an increasingly diverse portfolio of customers, either existing customers or new customers who are still waiting for their trucks to be delivered over the next three, six, nine months, et cetera. If you then look at where we've come from, as a company, I mentioned previously, we've had close to 50% growth, if we look annualized basis. More importantly, though, we are now, we have come into a territory where we're truly starting to see mass adoption. Now, mass adoption, as I said, isn't really, in our world, a mass adoption if it's only five or six large customers who are truly mass adopting. No, we need to see that in a much broader context as such, among a much wider section of the haulage sector in the U.K., and we're truly seeing that now.
It's not only supermarkets and parcel delivery companies, et cetera, who are adopting. We're also seeing general haulage and many other sectors as such, more specialist sectors, moving down the biomethane route. If you look at this graph here, you will also see that there's a light green shaded area. That is our MRS volume, mobile refueling station volume. I'll touch upon that in a bit. But that's also been an important enabler for what we do, because developing stations, building stations, unfortunately, takes a lot of time. And therefore, the mobile refueling stations are important stopgaps, because those mean that customers can adopt and can pull forward truck orders, compared to waiting maybe another year or a year and a half for a new station, grid connected station to become operational.
The MRS that we've had now in operation for the last four years, we've now got seven of them in operation. They're very efficient enablers, as I just mentioned, that we can put on a customer depot or at a station that we are building but haven't opened yet, and as such, we can refuel up to typically 100 trucks through one MRS per day. We've got two that are located, as an example, in Milton Keynes, Magna Park Distribution Centre, which today refuel approximately 200 trucks per day. And of course, when those MRSs are removed, when we get a grid-connected station there, we will then have a new station that immediately is used by more than 200 trucks.
So as such, it's an important enabler to pull truck orders forward from customers, but also to ensure that economics of new stations that we develop are attractive. We have opened, a couple of months ago, we opened our first on-depot station, a private station in Bracknell. This is for Waitrose. Some of you might say, "Why have we opened a private station? You know, you are- you've been very clear you're doing public access stations." Yes, that is correct, but we will always adapt to what customers want, and if there is specific reasons for a customer for a certain period of time to need a private station, then we will, of course, accommodate that. We expect this station, over time, to go from being a private, currently trailer-fed station to becoming grid-connected in the not too distant future.
We've opened three stations over the last nine months. Corby, Northamptonshire, Bangor, our first one in Wales, very important. And more importantly, also, Aylesford, which has opened the southeast quadrant, if you want, in England, down in Kent. In addition, we've got Doncaster, which is in build, and then on the couple of slides later on, we'll talk about the five next stations that we wanna put in to build very soon, as soon as we've got the next source of funding secured. We always look at where can we optimize the new stations, and where can we- where should we be building the first new stations first, instead of maybe building other stations, you know, a year from now, two years from now.
We have a dedicated land team that work very hard at sourcing new sites, and as such, when those sites come through and reach what we define as a shovel-ready state, we then have the ability to optimize and to choose which stations we put in to build first. Given that we've now got an increasingly diverse customer fleet, we've got 700+ trucks on the road, plus an order book of close to 1,000, we've got very strong visibility as to where do customers need new stations, and where do they need them quite urgently, and where would we also see good uptake and very good utilization rates in the first couple of years at those stations.
And as such, running that analysis, we've identified five highly attractive sites that we'd like to put in to build later in 2024. These we will typically see would have an IRR in the range of 25%-45%, unlevered, which is what we believe to be attractive. But as I said, you know, we are confident of those numbers. Why? Because of our diverse customer base and because we know that these, you know, a certain set of customers have already placed orders, or are in the market at the moment, looking to place orders for these locations as we go forward. Once we get these five into build and in operation, that will take us up to a total coverage in the U.K., where we can handle north of 13,000 trucks per day.
As of today, I mentioned previously, if you look at March and the annualized figures for March, we are at a run rate, EBITDA run rate at station generation, EBITDA, north of GBP 7 million. Once we then add the existing fleet order book, that we know have been placed by our customers, that will take us to GBP 12 million or more in EBITDA. And once again, if you then look at the station network that we've got today, the 14 operational stations, and we bring those up to, a healthy level of utilization, that gets us close to GBP 50 million of EBITDA.
And I think this is an important slide to appreciate and understand, because a lot of this growth we have visibility of already through confirmed orders and through orders that we are confident will be placed over the next couple of years. But also important to understand that the EBITDA we're seeing here doesn't include any potential contribution from RTFCs, from the certificate market, from the certificates that we generate by dispensing biomethane, which we're now finally starting to see recover.
We mentioned in the last quarterly presentation that we are in discussions with Foresight Group, the funder that we've been using for 14 out of our 15 stations, where we are looking to see if we can consolidate that structure or collapse the structure, if you want, and bring the stations back in and on balance sheet under ReFuels. We've also, you know, announced in April that we currently have an ongoing process where we are looking to raise in the range of GBP 150 million through a combination of debt and equity. And what would that mean as a structure for us as a company?
Well, on the left-hand side, you see the current structure, where we do have an off-balance sheet joint venture with Foresight, called CNG Foresight, where 14 out of 15 stations sit. Post-transaction, the intention here is to bring those stations fully in-house, so that we have an integrated ownership under the CNG Fuels umbrella, which is the station-owning umbrella of ReFuels, with those 15 stations. And in addition, any future growth would then happen under this now consolidated and simplified structure. And with that, I will hand it over to Baden.
Thank you, Philip. We've shown this slide before in previous quarters, which is the EBITDA generated at just the station portfolio level. What we've taken here is showing the adjusted EBITDA over the last 3 quarters alone, so not over the full year. What you can see is that with only about 30% or so growth in underlying volumes, we've increased our EBITDA by 125%. Which obviously a very substantial growth in the margins that we're now seeing. We've roughly doubled margins in the last year, but both on a gross profit level and on an adjusted EBITDA level.
And so we're now really seeing very large cash flow generation from additional kilos we put through the stations. Why are we seeing such large growth in our margins? It's a combination of a number of factors. We've had an organic fall in the electricity prices over the last year or so, which has been very helpful. We are now seeing the benefits of an improved growing logistical operation that we're seeing scale benefits through, as well as obviously the maintenance and operation, and overhead associated with the stations themselves. And we've now become a large electricity consumer. So we've now that we're consuming more than 10 GWh per annum, we have fallen to an adj...
A new bracket of electricity pricing, which has boosted our EBITDA on a like-for-like basis by around GBP 115,000 per month EBITDA. So about one third of the increase in EBITDA is due to those new electricity pricing. We're currently at a run rate of around GBP 7 million per annum, and we expect with the delivery of the new vehicles that we have on order and confirmed, that'll increase to more, that should increase to more than GBP 1 million per month around the end of the year. Consolidated revenue for the period is GBP 26.4 million, which is down slightly from the last quarter.
This is actually largely due to the natural gas prices, which have fallen around 30% in the same period. Although, of course, we've seen growth in underlying volumes. We generated about 38 million RTFCs in the period, and we've sold these at a volume weighted average price of around GBP 0.21. This is important because this obviously corresponds to a positive margin we're now making on the RTFCs, which Philip can go into a little bit later, the underlying drivers for that. But seeing a recovery back into profitable sourcing and sale of RTFC is obviously very important for the bottom line for the business.
We've also seen a drop in the EPC revenues as we come towards the end of the development, that's the engineering, procurement, and construction revenues associated with building of new sites, as we come to the end of the building of the Aylesford station in Kent, and obviously, building the final station within the CNG Foresight portfolio at Doncaster. We realized a negative EBITDA in the period. However, once we adjust out the factors, which I'll show you in a second, we actually have made an adjusted EBITDA profit within the period. Overhead costs have increased due to an accrual we've made for the payment of payroll bonuses for the period, for the full year period, coming through the accounts. Next.
Thank you. So you can see adjusted EBIT, the EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA. What you may notice if you've watched the last couple of earnings presentations, is that we have previously had an RTFC adjustment. Based on discussions with the auditors, the correct accounting treatment, now we are able to remove that very large adjustment, which was distorting our figures, distorting the earnings, quite a lot, on a quarterly basis. So that is now removed. And what you see now is with just the removal of the share-based payments and the EPC timings based on the developments, we are now able to show we're having an adjusted EBITDA profit for the quarter. Total assets for the period, GBP 203 million, down GBP 10 million from the prior period.
And this is, yeah, with about GBP 20 million, well, GBP 21 million of goodwill. Current liabilities, our trade and payable receivables have fallen because of about a 30% decrease in the natural gas cost. And the total equity in the business is now 56% instead of 57% last quarter. Yeah. And cash flow has fallen slightly. We had about a loss of about GBP 2.5 million in operating cash flow for the period. A very small amount from cash, a very small loss of GBP 0.1 million from investing.
And then we have cash from financing, which was a GBP 1 million drawdown on the facility we have with Foresight, which was drawn to GBP 6 million of the GBP 10 million available in the period. Once again, we finished the period with about GBP 4.3 million of cash at the bank. However, obviously, with the improving earnings profiles of the business coming through, we hope to see some improvement in the coming months. Thank you.
Thank you, Baden. So if we look at the market that we operate in, we sometimes get the question: "So, okay, you've got 1,700 trucks on the road, but what is the potential here, and what are the actual market segments that you operate within?" If you look at the left-hand side of this, this graph here, you will see there are three types of vehicles mentioned there. You've got rigid, 6x2, and 4x2. In total, that market is close to 230,000 registered vehicles, on the road in the U.K. today. And whilst the rigid market is a market that we're active in, it is not by us seen as our core market where we expect the majority of our growth to come from.
That said, we have been surprised over the last 12 months by the strength in the rigid market and the interest from customers to want to run rigid trucks, and as such, that is a segment that we will see grow going forward. But our core market is 145,000 trucks, which is made up of the 4x2 and the 6x2 trucks, which I'll touch upon in a bit. And if you look at the number of vehicles on the road today, yes, we've got 1,700+ on the road today, but the vast majority of those are 4x2 trucks. But once again, the 6x2 is coming, and that's something that we're very excited about, which is one of the key drivers for our customers going forward. Why?
Because if you look at running a CNG truck and what the benefits are for our customers, it's about going green. That is, you know, I would say, the most important factor for the majority of our customers. But as a lot of our customers tell us, they can't afford to go green and lose money, and that's where biomethane is such an elegant solution. Because, yes, the vehicles are slightly more expensive to buy up front, but the fuel is cheaper, and when you keep a vehicle for typically five years, there is a strong payback period of that capital. And as such, the, you know, our customers get to go green, and at least not lose money, but most likely save money compared to running diesel, and as such, it's a win-win. But our truck,
Sorry, our customers have been constrained and are constrained by the amount of vehicles, or the type of vehicles they can operate. As of today, they've largely been limited to running 4x2 vehicles, which you see on the left-hand side here, and soon we will be able to have customers running 6x2 trucks. If you look at how this works for us, we have a compression charge that we charge our customers, which is where we make the margin, that we can support the growth and the profitability of stations. We've got, you know, stable utilization, as you can see here, close to, you know, between 31,000-32,000 kilograms of gas going through trucks per year.
As the 4x2s are our main market today, but as we get 6x2 influence coming in here, they will, because those are larger engines, they're pulling heavier, and as such, we expect that to really, you know, drive future utilization growth, and as such, per kilogram usage over an annualized period per vehicle from about 31,000-32,000, up to maybe 40,000-45,000+ per vehicle, and that is important driver for our gross margins and as such, our gross profit per truck going forward. So what is a 4x2, and what is a 6x2? Well, if you look at the 4x2, left-hand side here, there is a, you know, that is a tractor and trailer combination where there is one rear axle for the tractor unit.
That is 14% of the articulated truck market in the U.K. The right-hand side here, you will see a 6x2, which has two rear axles and can operate up to 44 tons. A typical 4x2 operates up to 38, but can also operate up to 40 tons potentially. But the 6x2 market makes up 86% of the market, and as such, you see, we've got a huge market to that we can grow into. But as of today, the number of 4x2 trucks we have on the road dominates our, you know, our customer base. And as such, that's why we're so excited by the fact that the 6x2s are being launched and will be available as a factory-produced product later this year.
We talk a lot about our order book, and some people sometimes misunderstand and say, "Well, you guys don't operate fleets, so why are you talking about order book?" No, these are customer orders. And of course, customers tell us and are transparent with us with regards to their ambitions and what they have ordered. If you look at the current network today, we've got north of 1,700 trucks that use our customer trucks that use our network today. We know there is an order book of close to 1,000 trucks that has been placed, but because no one who wants, let's say, a truck for mid-2025 or second half 2025, they won't be ordering those before six, maybe nine months ahead of when they want the truck delivered.
As such, very few orders have today been placed for delivery, from, let's say, second half 2025 onwards. But we've gone out to our customer base, they inform us as to what their plans are. Hence, we've also got a number here of 2,500 estimated future orders, which are ones that we expect, based on customer feedback, for our customers to place, for delivery in 2025 and 2026, later on. We spent quite a bit of time, I think, over the last last year, basically, talking about the fundamentals that drive RTFCs and Renewable Transport Fuel Certificate pricings. We have, unfortunately, been coming through a period where the biodiesel dynamics, which drive the valuation and the pricing of RTFCs, has been heavily impacted.
by large imports of biodiesel, primarily from China last year, which basically flooded the market, and as such, pushed down prices and caused the RTFC market to crash. We've seen, and we are continuing to see, strong policy and strong, you know, government action here, to stop this. And as such, there is anti-dumping investigations going on, there are tariff reviews going on, et cetera. In addition, we're now starting to see that this huge volume is starting to wash out of the market, and as such, there is a recovery in what we say is biodiesel market fundamentals, where there is a better balance between supply and demand of biodiesel, and as such, that is causing a recovery in prices. If you then look at the theoreticals here, and I say theoreticals, why?
Because biodiesel, the spread between one liter of biodiesel and one liter of fossil diesel is what determines the RTFC value. And if you were in there today to theoretically blend biodiesel, it would cost you about GBP 0.23 per RTFC, GBP 0.229 as of yesterday. And eventually we would expect RTFC values to reflect that. As of today, RTFCs are trading in the GBP 19.50-GBP 20.20 range. And as you see on the right-hand side here, there's been a you know significant improvement in RTFC values over the last couple of months. And given the biodiesel fundamentals, that is something that we're expecting will continue going forward. Now, why are RTFC values important to us?
Because that also is a very important factor to look at the biomethane margins that we can, and the gross profit that we can generate by sourcing biomethane and by putting that through our stations. Historically, we've been at an average of about 30% plus. However, if you look at that graph there, you will see we've enjoyed, you know, healthy margins in the past, and then we have this period where we've come down and are now starting to recover. But it's important here, I think, to understand that whilst, yes, you can see we've been, you know, north of 40% in the past, we don't need to recover to 40% or thir- even 30% before we start to see a significant earnings contribution to the group. Why is that?
Because while we have, you know, seen these margins in the past, you have to remember, we had much less volume going through our stations then. So we can, and because our volume has grown so much since, we only need to see a fairly minor improvement in margins, but because our volume is so much greater, so much larger, that will provide a large boost to our earnings, even though the margins don't need to recover to the historical levels. If we look at where we are now, we've spent the last 10 years, you know, building the company, building an industry. We've got a strong market leadership in the U.K. market for public access Bio-CNG. We're very excited about the future.
We're excited about the 5 more stations we wanna put into build immediately, and a lot more stations beyond that. And if you look at what, what we have created today, we have essentially created an industry or an ecosystem, which is, you know, an integrated offering, and as such, have created some really strong barriers to entry. Baden highlighted it previously as well. EBITDA margins have improved a lot over the last 3-4, 3-4 quarters, and a lot of that is down to the economies of scale and the operational leverage that we have within the group. Now, we only need to increase our overheads by 15%-20% for us to operate basically 3 times as many public access stations we've got today.
So, so we've got huge operational leverage that we will continue to benefit from going forward. We've also got ambitions outside of the U.K. That said, our focus today on the station side is very much within the U.K., but as we as we access additional capital in the future, and we are being offered opportunities outside of the U.K., that's something we wanna look at. But... and as I say, we'll we'll come back to that later on, but I just want to mention, it's not off our radar just because it hasn't happened yet. It is something that we will inform the market of when the time is right. And finally, we've got strong online growth that will continue going forward. We've got good visibility on the truck pipeline when it comes to orders. The 6x2 is coming.
We see that as a game changer, a fundamental game changer for the industry, and as such, you know, where we've come from, when hopefully we'll look back 5 years from now and say, "Okay, 2024, 2025 was a true turning point with regards to the options that customers had," and as such, we're expecting that to affect the order book in a positive way over the next 6-12 months. And furthermore, we're not done with our 15 sites. We've got 5 more that we wanna build later this year, and then a lot more from 2025 onwards. Thank you for that, and we will see if there are any questions.
We do have a couple in the chat now, and I assume there will be some more actually. We can start off with the private station that you've just opened.
Mm-hmm.
Is the private station in Bracknell a shift in your strategy from building public access stations, and can we expect more private stations in the future?
The answer is no. As in, it's not a shift in our strategy, no. We are convinced that nothing really beats large public access Bio-CNG stations the way we develop and build them today. But as you've seen, you know, I think the best way to also explain this is what we've done on the MRS, you know, the mobile refueling stations. You know, pre-2020, we never thought we would need them. We thought we would need two for one specific location. You know, now we've got seven in operation. We've got one more in build. There'll be another one going into build later this year, and we'll probably do another two or three next year.
So we adapt to what the market needs and how we best can serve the market, but we are not seeing a lot of demand for private stations as such. But Waitrose is an important customer to us. We have a strong relationship with Waitrose. As such, you know, providing them with what we see as a stopgap solution to a grid-connected station in the future is, of course, something we will do, but it is not a fundamental shift in our strategy, no, and I wouldn't expect to see a lot of those being developed going forward.
Yep. Thank you. So now there's a triple question about the 6x2s. So,
Okay.
So first of all, obviously, with the 4x2s, you have the order book, and
Yeah
... there's a lead time on the orders. How do you see the 6x2 market isn't very big for the CNG ones currently. How do you see the lead time on the 6x2s for Bio-CNG?
It's a good question. There are some... Maybe I should just clarify, there are some 6x2s on the road today. I mean, we operate some. The image you saw in the presentation is our truck that we use in our operation and for demo vehicles. The problem is that they are, they're having to be modified and turned from a 4x2 into a 6x2 off the production line. As such, it adds cost, and it adds timeline, a lot of time. That's why we're so excited now going forward because not only is there going to be one manufacturer that offers a 6x2, there's gonna be two manufacturers, and the production of those vehicles will be streamlined.
As such, we expect that once factory production really cranks up, for the 6x2, second half 2024, we're not expecting a large contribution of 6x2s for 2024 or probably the early part of 2025. But from mid-2025 onwards, based on the interest we're seeing now, it is a true game changer. Now, just to put it into perspective, we've currently got 10 demo vehicles in operation throughout the U.K. Five of those demo vehicles, if I'm not mistaken, four or five of those demo vehicles are 6x2s. The wait list for certain regions is close to a year to trial a 6x2 CNG truck, and that's from one manufacturer. So yeah, it is a game changer for us.
Timelines as regard to order and when we will see them delivered, as I say, we will probably start to see these in big numbers from around about mid-2025 onwards.
Yeah, a follow-up on that. You mentioned that there are two manufacturers now. Are there any other truck manufacturers that are planning to launch 6x2s?
Not at this point in time that we are aware of. There are other truck manufacturers that do a wide range of CNG trucks, but not the 6x2s. And I should probably also explain to the audience here that the 6x2, in a European perspective, is a bit of an anomaly. If you look at trucks in the EU in general, the EU market is heavily dominated by 4x2s. Why? Because regulations are slightly different there to the U.K., and as such, a 6x2 is, you know, a variant that the truck manufacturers have to produce for a quite limited market, which is the U.K. market. It is a big market, don't get me wrong, but compared to the overall EU market, it is a smaller market.
In addition, of course, in the U.K., we are right-hand drive, not left-hand drive, which adds also complications. As such, the fact that the 6x2 has come in late as a CNG variant is also a result of the fact that it is a smaller market and a bit more of a niche market because of the, well, what I've just explained. As such, for other truck manufacturers, it is seen as a niche product. But we don't need more manufacturers. Two is, will be absolutely fine for the growth that we can see going forward.
Thank you. A question on the RTFCs. Can you elaborate on the improving fundamentals in the biodiesel market and how this affects the certificate market and the margins you achieve from them?
Indeed. So if you look at the overall construct of the biodiesel market and the driving factors there, the RTFC price is determined by the price spread between one liter of fossil diesel and one liter of biodiesel. And of course, as biodiesel price came down last year heavily, that squished the margin, and as such, the certificate price came down. Now, why is the certificate price determined by that? Because if you are an obligated party under the so-called RTFO, Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation in the UK, your go-to fuel that you will blend will be biodiesel, and hence, that is what determines the price.
What we saw in the market, starting late 2022, now in hindsight, but the market really only appreciated it come Q1, Q2 in 2023, was yeah, a huge quantity of Chinese biodiesel that came into the European market. That, of course, caused an oversupply. Prices came down, but what also happened was there was a lot of blending that took place. And most of the obligated markets in Europe allow certificates to be carried over. So if you over-blend in one year, meaning you blend more certificates than you need, you can carry them over to the next year. And last year, from what we've heard and what we've seen, pretty much all of the countries and a lot of the players carried over a lot of certificates.
That, of course, meant they didn't have a lot of demand for blending during the first quarter of 2024, maybe the second quarter of 2024, but we're now starting to see blending starting to pick up, and we're also starting to see a, I wouldn't say shortage, but a healthier demand-supply balance between or for the key biodiesel both feedstocks and end products that are needed to blend in Europe. And that's why we are positive, and I would say I'm trying to contain myself slightly here, but we are optimistic that the market is turning, and that we will see sustained improvements going forward.
Yeah. Thank you. There's one about the station expansion. So, obviously, you recently opened your fourteenth station. You've got one more in build now. Do you have visibility on the timelines after that and the further plans for station expanding the station infrastructure?
Yes, we do. So we have a dedicated land team of five people that only does one thing, which is secure, you know, negotiate with landowners, get all the survey work done, make sure we get planning approval, and so on and so forth. So basically, get sites to something we call shovel-ready, which means we can put a digger on site, and we can physically go and build a station, and there are many, many boxes to tick along that journey. Unfortunately, developing these sites, and when I say developing, developing site up to shovel-ready is something that can take a very long time. And as such, when we are confident that we've got sites that we can build, that is because these sites have been coming through our system for years.
We are now at the end, very end of the process, which means that they are either shovel-ready or will be shovel-ready over the next three-six months. Now, as an example, from we identify a location where we would like to have a station, until it's operational, typically takes us three-four years. We've got one location that we've been going at for eight years, and we're still not building, and we can maybe... if everything goes well, we can maybe have a station built in a location in two-2.5 years, but the general time is three-four years.
So if we were to start now and try to get some stations into development mode in the next couple of months, we couldn't do that, or even a couple of years, because it takes us long. So yes, we have a lot of confidence in the maturity of our pipeline, not just the next five, but also the ones that we can start to construct in 2025 onwards.
Yep. Thank you. That was the final question in the chat. So,
Thank you.
Yeah. I guess if anyone has any questions following the presentation, you can email them to the ReFuels team, and they'll be happy to respond.
Thank you very much, and thank you to everyone online.