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Earnings Call: Q1 2011

May 13, 2011

Speaker 1

This is going to be simultaneously interpreted to English today, so that you will be able to hear both English and Norwegian on the webcast. I'm going to be speaking. My name is Rolv Erik Ryssdal, and we have Terje Seljeseth, who is the CEO of Schibsted Classified Media, and Trond Berger, our CFO. Our agenda looks like it usually does. We'll be starting with the highlights. Then we'll be going through the media houses. We'll be speaking about the financials. Then today, we'll be talking about also Schibsted Classified Media, because there's a lot of exciting things going on there. It's natural to give an update on that, of course. If we take a look at the highlights of the first quarter, we're very satisfied with delivering the best Q1 results that Schibsted has ever had.

The EBITDA is NOK 447 million, there's a good development on the top line growth. Online classifieds are going very well, especially the classifieds have seen very strong growth. We see that in addition to the established positions that we have for classified, we have Blocket and others that are starting to really get close to positive results, and Terje is going to be speaking more about that. This is also why we've increased our growth rate here, because we're seeing good possibilities here. Scandinavian advertising market is stronger this year than it was last year. That is Norway, in particular. Sweden was strong last year and Norway has caught up. It's important for us that the fusion with Media Norge has now been implemented. This took place yesterday. It was registered in Brønnøysund, the official register, so that now it has been enacted.

Our greatest challenge, and we're going to be talking about this, is the single copy newspapers home, VG and Aftonbladet. The trend in Q1 is the same as it was last year. There is a decline in circulation of a little bit more than 10%. These are the highlights, and we see a good development on the top line, growth of 7%, and this is higher than it's been in previous quarters. As you see, online classifieds has really made a good contribution here. The media houses are also growing 2% in Scandinavia and 7% for the international media houses. The margin picture is stable. It's a little bit. There are some things that are better and some things that are not quite as good. We'll be coming back to that in a little while.

This is the revenue split that we usually show. As previously, the trend is that the two top parts of this online classifieds and media houses online, they are growing and picking up momentum. While the single copy revenue is down at the bottom here of 18%, that has declined. This shows the greatest changes in performance in the first quarter compared with Q1 last year, 2010. The media houses are increasing their result by NOK 46 million, Media House Norway ex FINN. If we look at VG and Schibsted Sweden, they have together just about the same decline. We see that the online classifieds that are in the established phase are increasing by some NOK 90 million.

We have the increase in the investment in Blocket rollouts, and this is in alignment with what we mentioned previously, and we are still right on track with our expectations for the year, with a rate of between NOK 300 million and NOK 400 million , as I've mentioned previously. Here is an overview that many of you will recognize. This shows the largest units, the different operations, and if you have a good overview over these units, then you know what's going on in the Schibsted group. Online classifieds, naturally, has a higher margin. We see that there are certain fluctuations through the year and that they fluctuate. Other units fluctuate more than classifieds. The media houses.

We can see here that there's 3% growth on the top line, and there's a margin profile here that's about the same as Q1 last year-on-year. This is a mixed bag, though. The subscription newspapers have better margins, and the single copy newspapers are not as good as they were last year. If we look at Norway. The newspapers here, they benefit from the fact that the economic cycle has picked up. It's better this year than last year. The important announcement that the classifieds are recruitment and real estate, and they're growing, and brands. We see that the circulation revenues are stable. There's a 1% increase, and what's important here is that the circulation in itself is stable. In fact, it declined just by 2%.

More focus has been put in Media House Norway on digital activities. We have established a coordinated or collaborated activity, Media Norge Digital, and this allows us to work much better in the four different media houses' digital departments, and that in turn is translated into better performance. All of this, we're seeing that the ones that had negative figures last year are better. We have collaboration projects here. How are things going with cooperation, pan-corporate cooperation? It's good. In fact, we're ahead of schedule. This is cooperation with IT, with digital, it's the customer center, and then we have a common group printing function. Like everybody else, we're in the iPad app business here. The paid version is going to be introduced in Q2, both of Aftenposten and some of the others.

It takes some time to get approvals and so on. It takes a little bit longer time, all this will be coming now in Q2. Here, you can see the margin development and trends in the individual media houses, especially Aftenposten has very good trend there. These are large figures, that you really see that it has an impact. Please notice Stavanger Aftenblad there and the trend there. Previously, there's been a. Their margin has been below the others, now all of a sudden, it's going straight up. There's the merger that I'd like to speak about. We had our general meeting in Media Norge in March, they approved the merger. Yesterday, all the formalities were put into order so that now the registration is completed.

We're merging with Media Norway because we feel that these are good activities, and we have a great deal of faith in them. The four media houses in FINN are the core activities. They're all core activities for us, and we have great faith that they'll also be developing very well in the future. When the situation has arisen, where we had 80% and some of the other shareholders wanted to sell, we felt that this was the most natural way to do this. I would like to move on to speaking about Sweden. In Sweden, we have a decline in performance, and this is mainly due to Aftonbladet. This is because of the single copy market in Sweden. We're going to spend a little more time on this afterwards.

What I can say right now is that as far as Svenska Dagbladet goes, they have stable development trends, and they have about the same performance as they had year-on-year, Q1 last year. We can see how can a company be influenced by individual factors. In Sweden, Svenska Dagbladet has earned good revenues from classifieds. From this year, the rules were changed so that now this is done on the net, on the Internet. This is an extraneous factor, but it does have an impact on the figures for the first quarter. Svenska Dagbladet is still an example of a very good operational efficiency. Prime example. As far as Aftonbladet goes, like VG, they have a difficult trend in circulation for both newspapers. The circulation dropped by 11%-12% in the first quarter.

What they've done with Aftonbladet is that they've tidied up the portfolio, taken out a number of supplementary products and services that weren't very profitable, so that this has been planned. If we ignore that, then the revenue decline has been about 10%, excluding the supplements. In Aftonbladet, there is a poor result in this quarter than what we have before with online. We haven't had the full impact of the increase in classifieds, and then they have had somewhat lower figures than expected. If we look at VG, the picture is kind of similar. We see that the circulation volume is declining by 12%.

In addition, VG had a reduction in advertising revenues in print. I don't think that that's typical because VG will ordinarily be a newspaper that will be strongly impacted by large scale campaigns, and this can fluctuate from time to time so that there's a negative Easter effect here, in fact. As regards vg.no, last year, there were more user revenues. We had Nettby, and then we have this whole football or soccer sales. The user income from this or the revenues, they no longer exist, and the underlying growth is okay, 12%, 13%. Because there were different factors that had an impact on the result. These two media houses account for the decline in performance. We can say, what can we do with this? How can we work with this?

When I showed this picture, when we have a decline of about NOK 30 million in the profit, then we see that for VG, there's differences about half there. I think that the online segments, when we look at that, this decline in results is not the way it's going to be the rest of the year. With circulation, nobody takes this more seriously, this reduction in circulation than VG and Aftonbladet. They are continuously adapting their products in Norway and in Sweden. They're looking at what is the optimal price structure. They've increased prices in recent years. Perhaps we have to think about what is the optimal pricing structure in future. The other main initiative is that we have to look at costs.

This has been a question of the number of employees that we don't increase the staff, that we keep costs under close control. Both of the media houses are working very diligently to increase their digital revenues. Aftonbladet is experimenting with user payments, and their priced services seems now to have a wind in its sails, as it were. Both media houses are experimenting with iPad. I think that's great. I don't think it's going to result for us or any other media house that this first quarter this year and perhaps not even next year, that we're not going to see a lot of user revenues from iPad users. I think it's important to do this because this is. It's a sign of the times, basically.

These are the three main actions that we are focusing on in both of these media houses. As regards the international picture in the Baltics, things are going better. They're looking up. We have increased the performance from 2% to 9%, and it's particularly in the television segment that the trend is good. France and Spain. There we see that in France, you see that this is a place where there's a lot of competition. We're the largest, and we're the ones that have made some money, and that has not changed much. The others have just presented figures showing that they're losing money in France, so we are the clear market leader here. I would add that what I think about this 20 minutes in both countries is that they have developed a very strong position online with these products.

Traditionally, we lose money on the first quarter, while the last quarter of the year is traditionally the best. Spain, it's a harsh market environment that has to do with the situation in Spain. The figures aren't very big by our standards, but the advertising revenues, it's still very keen competition there. That takes us then to online classifieds. There we have a very good trend in the top line if you look at the profit trend, performance trend there. What is contributing the most is FINN and Blocket is also important there. If we look at FINN, I'm really impressed, I have to say, at the results that have been presented there. Christian, I believe, is in the room. Perhaps you can ask him questions afterwards as well. FINN has had a very good development trend.

They had a very strong development trend last year, and they are continuing that trend. This is a good. All of these different areas of FINN, especially recruitment, has gone very well thus far this year. This reflects, to some extent, the improved economic cycle, but they have also made very, very dedicated efforts at looking at volumes and prices. I'd like to mention that FINN Travel is really picking up. It's taking off, and it's strengthening its brand position. This is then at the expense of many of these foreign websites where you can book travel. I really feel confident about this. FINN has some very exciting news. Among other things, they're going to be launching a financial service along with VG. That's going to be very exciting.

Blocket has a good result, strong performance, good development in traffic, good traffic in new advertising, good new services, and the commerce platform is good. E-commerce platform has seen growth. There's also a number of very exciting developments taking place. Blocket is doing very well, and in future, they're going to be looking more at the verticals. The recruitment and housing, I think they're going to be working with more. They're gonna be focusing more attention on that. I think they're gonna be learning from FINN, what FINN has done in the market for different brand advertisements and so on. They were actually the largest place for advertising this year in Norway last year. Now Blocket is learning from FINN and seeing what they can manage to accomplish there.

Here we see the collective development for Spain and France, and I'll give you a separate picture of France afterwards. In Spain, the cyclic trend is still very difficult. Unemployment remains high, but the online segments have managed to grow. Jobs, I would say that this has tapered off, flattened out, and we're seeing a weak positive development compared with last year. The others are continuing on a good development trend. This year, it's Fotocasa, the property real estate segment that's developing very well. What we've then done is to take the, In the fourth quarter last year, they took away some payment and made things free, and then we recovered these this money in other ways. If we look at leboncoin in France, you see it's the second-largest site in France, six billion page views.

This will always come high, and Google, of course, is larger too, so that's not even along in the measurements. I can tell you that this is very strong, though. I would also say that we are actually on or ahead of the schedule that we set when we bought these remaining percentages, this stake last year. I think it's really strong that we see this tremendous traffic, and we are still seeing growth of almost 60%. This is fantastic. This picture shows the sites where we have activities. Light blue shows where we have marketing, we're market leaders, and the dark blue shows our venture phases, where we are not leaders yet. In the course of the next quarters, we hope that we can show you a map where more of these companies are the lighter blue color.

Terje will be speaking a little bit more about that. That was the main content from the business areas, and we'll take the questions and answers at the end so that then I will give the floor to Trond Berger, the CFO. Thank you very much, Rolv Erik. We have a strong first quarter to report. It's the best ever, in fact. It's a record quarter. It shows growth, underlying growth of 7% year-on-year. Despite some decline in the tabloids, there's good development trends and to some extent, strong trends in all of the other areas. We also see that we can take advantage of the online positions that we have to build up new services like we've done in Sweden with the Tillväxtmedier, the growth media.

We have an EBITDA of NOK 447 million, which is up from NOK 418 million last year. We have continued to increase the online classifieds, the rollouts there. Terje will be talking about that. The net financials, there's not so much to comment on here. There are not a lot of special effects that have impacted the figures this quarter. We still have good growth. We have an EBITDA of NOK 310 million against NOK 256 million last year, NOK 266 million. We've sold our library in Denmark. We have the Sandrew Metronome.

We have other parts in Norway and Finland are on the market, and we have a slight positive impact of the sale, but a slight negative effect other places so that there's not a lot to say about the net financial items either, other than that they are developing as expected. The profit before tax is NOK 289 million. We have a tax percentage that is 33%. That's up a little bit from previously, first and foremost, because we have larger earnings from foreign companies whose tax percentage is a little bit higher, and we're seeing the effects of the deficit that we have had in other areas, and we have a little bit more careful approach to those. We still have some way to go. This is for print media in Scandinavia.

You can see that the first quarter, 2011 is still about NOK 180 million under the level that we saw in 2008. Sweden is starting to recover a little bit better to this, closer to the 2000-2008 levels, but Norway still has a ways to go. Sweden has in fact picked up remarkably in recent quarters, and the Swedish economy in general has improved. The key financial figures are still positive. We have a strong cash flow from operations. We have a limited CapEx, and we have invested in the big projects, printing facilities and so on, so that we now we're going to have more a normal level of investments, typically IT investments.

Now we're collaborating so that we have the same advertising system in Norway and Sweden, and we believe that this is going to give some good effects, collaboration synergies. This is at a good level. If we look at the EBIT and EBITDA, we've said should be between one and two, and we'll go up a little bit in the second quarter because of the payment of dividends. This is about NOK 700 million altogether. We're going to have a strong cash flow in future, so that we should have a very, Our balance sheet should be very good. We have a funding profile that we have strong financial situation, and we have good liquid reserves.

We have treasury shares, about NOK 4 million that we have used in connection with the settlement for Media Norge, so that we're left with a very small number of treasury shares. At the general meeting later today, we will ask for a continuation of the authorization to buy treasury shares, so there's nothing new in that. This is so that this can be used in the future to adjust our capital structure, as well as for use in this type of acquisitions. It's the same as we've done before. We have increased the dividend that is proposed. It's a doubling from last year, in fact. Our policy has been to pay out 25%-40% of our earnings cash flow, and we want to be within that territory.

We adjust a little bit for sales for 2010, we're at 26%. This means that we want to examine that and then pay very competitive dividends in future. Costs. We have very tight cost control, in fact. If we look at the trend from Q1 last year to Q1 this year, we see that they are increasing from NOK 2,845 million to NOK 3,055 million. The effect is mainly in SEK. There's a currency translation effect. We have sold some things. We have an increase in payroll of NOK 61 million, the personnel costs. We're following this very closely. If you break down that figure, you will see that we have growth of 150-160 employees in Media Online, FINN.no, different kinds of online services to Växtsverige , this Growth Sweden that has, we've started.

We have a decline of 150-160 people in the printed media. We're continuing this. We're building up in online and drawing down costs then as well as we can in the other operations. We also have a significant increase in marketing costs and in the NOK 142 million here. We have an overall effect of EUR 109 million, mainly in the SCM area and also in new and established activities. We have increased commissions and so on for online services. This is what a lot of this cost comes from. We're focused very strongly on keeping the costs under control, not least in the media houses. If we take a look then at the NOK 1.7 billion we had in a profitability program, we're not planning on introducing anything new.

We're still realizing dividends from this. We're running projects pan corporation across the whole group. We have a common shared service center that's established in Norway and Sweden. As Rolv Erik pointed out, we are seeing synergies there, and we are trying to see what we can realize. If there are gains there, we can get more joint and common IT systems. We have very close control, tight control of the headcount. We see that this is especially in established activities. Naturally, we are increasing where we are building up. If we look at the reporting, we have decided to go over to EBITDA reporting and focus more on that.

We see this not least with our talks with investors and analysts, that people are focusing more on comparing the EBITDA with other companies, so that we would like to cultivate this a little bit more. I'd like to say thank you for your attention, and I will pass the rostrum over to Terje Seljeseth, the CEO of Schibsted Classified Media. Thank you. I'm going to be speaking a little bit about why we still continue to have such faith in the classified sites, and I'll also talk a little bit about how we group them and what the different sites are designed to achieve, and then a little bit about how things are going. We see here that as our websites are growing and developing, we are actually scoring very high in the internet universe, if I can call it that, in the individual country.

Not least the number of users. FINN in Norway, Blocket in Sweden, and leboncoin in France are among the largest sites in the country. This is even more clear if we look at the page views. The page views are the best measure perhaps of how much these websites are used. We're right up there with Facebook and Google. We said that Google wasn't part of the measurements. That's true. As you can see, we're right up there with the big ones. We're right at the top in the different countries. Very, very strong positions. Whether we're national or international, these are among the strongest sites. This really reaffirms our faith that this is an area that's important to be, to have a presence. We have the question of the economics, the financials in this.

You have seen from FINN for many years, for example, is that where we have strong positions, then we also make money. We have a very clear number one position there. This is the job that this is the intention of many of these sites. We've divided them up in three different phases: the startup phase, the traction phase, and the established phase. An example of the startup phase is tutti.ch in Switzerland and Tori in Finland. Subito is perhaps in the traction phase, is the best example in Italy. We have in Austria, we also have activities. Blocket, Segundamano, and then leboncoin, and in the established phase. We have different product developments there. What is their job, these different assets that we have?

In established phase, it's really to consolidate their position as a market leader and concentrate on sustaining volume. What's interesting is to see the development that FINN has, and this is perhaps the best established asset that we have there. We still see strong growth. FINN is still growing seven, eight, nine years after it came into this very clear leadership position. This is something that we're starting to see in the other number one positions that we have. They are growing in other relevant areas as well, and they're continuing to grow a long time after they achieve this number one position. Their job isn't just to consolidate that position, it's also to continue growing. Rolv Erik has mentioned this briefly already. Traction. There, everything is focused on gaining a position as number one, being the best.

We have special measures that we implement in order to accomplish that. In the first phase, naturally, a lot is how to approach the market leaders, how to manage to get a steady growth rate. For example, a lot of it is a question of advertising and product development during that phase. How are things going? Well, all of our sites that are in the established phase are doing their job very well. All of them are very profitable, and all of them are consolidating or improving their positions. Traction. Well, there we see, for example, as Rolv Erik said that there were countries that were dark blue and light blue. Already we are seeing that we're going to have to change some of the shading on those, because some of the sites that are in the attraction phase are starting to reach number one positions.

That means that they're also starting to get a good number one position. Willhaben in Austria, for example, you see the figures here. We measure our performance against eBay here. Not necessarily that eBay is the leader, but it's one that is comparable for our classifieds. eBay is often the largest player in any market that we go into to start out with. We see this in many contexts. Here that we're just as large as eBay means that we're the best. We're the highest at page views in Austria. Subito, Italy, we've been best two months running, and the largest website there. Subito is showing very strong performance in all areas. In Portugal, it's not eBay that's the leader, it's OLX is the name of the website there.

There, our website has climbed right up and surpassed with a relatively clear leader position now. We also see that these websites are not only doing well with traffic, they're also doing well financially. They're generating revenues. In the startup phase, this is kind of a mixed bag. It's too early to say something about some of the websites, while others are doing very well, and yet others we're not entirely satisfied with. In the traction phase, everyone, all the websites are doing well. If that had been the case for the startup phase, the growth picture would have been even better than what you're seeing here.

What we see that makes us confident that this is an area that we need to invest even more in this year, is that we are constantly seeing or sites from the startup phase that are knocking on the door of the traction phase. There are several of these sites that are gonna bring those countries on that map up to light blue. We are, as I said, several of the websites from the startup phase are knocking on the door of the traction phase. If we look from left to right. They move from left to right, and this makes us fairly confident that this is an area that is going to be a very good investment for us.

That, naturally, is the reason that we are going to be putting more money into this area than what we did last year. In order to constantly support this movement, we've built up a network of competence hubs all over the world, and we have systematic exchanges of lessons learned and different instruments in order to succeed so that this entire network of sites, they're independent in each country, but they work together very, very closely and systematically. Completely across the groups that I've shown you. The startup phase learn from the veterans. Sometimes the people, the sites in the startup phase have new things to teach the more established ones, so that we're really seeing the benefits of this close-knit network, and we see a steady stream of websites then that are moving towards the established phase.

I will give the floor back to Rolv Erik. Thank you very much. We're getting towards the end now. I think it was very important that Terje came and told you about these things. Investors naturally ask about this. You've got Norway and Sweden, you're big there, you've made up an acquisition in Sweden and France. What else can you point to? Others have asked me, "Why are you increasing the investment level?" It's because we see that we have exciting investment possibilities. Everything that we touch doesn't turn to gold. There are some long processes involved. France that has been profitable already for two years is an exception. Subito is going to be profitable this year, probably, that's four or five years after startup, that's more typical.

I think that there's really a lot of exciting developments there, so that this will give us good positions in the years ahead. I would like just to summarize a bit with our outlook. I can say that as far as the macroeconomy is concerned, it's difficult to forecast what the year is going to be like. I can refer you to the IRM, which says, in Norway, they think that media will grow by about 6%, and in Sweden, about 5%. They say in particular in Sweden, television is a large part of that growth. That the media market is better in Norway now than it was last year. That's very clear. In Sweden, it's still demanding. France looks a little bit better, but that is of less importance to our main figures.

I don't see any change in the trend for single copy newspapers, single copy sold newspapers. Unfortunately, there's kind of varying degrees of decline, but for the moment, there's no change in this as yet. We also see that online classifieds, we've talked about that. We say that, okay, we have a good level of investment there. There's a lot of thought that goes into this, where should we invest? We follow this up very closely, especially Terje and his team do so. Because of we wanna take into account the people who are following along by the website. The three of us are going to stand here together to take the questions.

Please do not start talking before you have the microphone from Maria as we do the question and answer session. One question about SCM, are there any common features of the markets where you achieve success and those where you don't achieve quite so much success? Is it the competitive factors or are there local differences? Terje, the answer is yes. It's a mixture generally of competition and local factors that is decisive here, and this is what has allowed us to learn, and we're hoping that we learn how to deal with the differences as we move along. Question to Trond also. The dividends, the shares that are used for the settlement, are they justified? Do they get dividends? No. They don't. Thank you. Question.

You said that you're seeing some, the change in the trend for, that the trend is continuing for single copy sold newspapers, and you're trying to find an optimal way of operating. Does that mean that you're going to increase the price of VG, for example? How probable is that, and how soon will that happen? Mr. Ryssdal. VG has increased its price not long ago, and Aftonbladet is even more complex there because they have different supplements that are different prices. We've made a lot of minor adjustments in recent years. We're not going to be announcing any plans today, but I just say that we are looking at the overall picture. Is it probable that there will be an increase? It's probable that we'll look to see if we have optimal pricing.

Can you comment on how VG Pluss is doing and what you see in the future for that? What kind of ideas you have about Aftenposten? VG Pluss is doing well as a tablet. Most people go into the browser version, even the people who are looking at it on their iPads at home. That means that in VG, we're thinking, okay, how much can we charge? How many would pay? This is why I'm saying, telling you that we're going to start experimenting with this. We've got a good product, and we'll see how it goes. You have other services that are free. I don't think that we should then expect tremendous income from this.

As regards Aftenposten and the other newspapers in Media Norge, the situation is somewhat different because there's an iPad version of Aftenposten, we've gotten a lot of positive feedback on that. There, it's possible that this is bundled with the paper subscription, for example. This is the kind of things that we're looking at. You touched on it, could you say a little bit more about the market development for the advertising market in Norway? If you look at the statistics of Norwegian Media Statistic Agency, it's not the whole picture, it shows that there are certain segments that are declining even though the overall market is increasing, and television is taking large market shares. Can you give us an idea about how you think this is going to be for the print media?

I think that television is the big winner in that particular statistic this year. The IRM that I referred to said that the Norwegian media market overall is increasing by 6% and the print media by 5% of that. If we look especially at classifieds, And in fact, in brands, too, we've had a positive development. I think that the prognosis that I referred to here seems reasonable. Is it then natural to think that there's a lot of classifieds that are not in the statistics there? We see that brands is doing very well, as well, not least to Media Norge. We see that the brands in a number of our online positions, for example, FINN, they're doing very well. It's been a little bit more demanding for VG, for example.

Some months we do well, and some months the figures aren't quite as good. It's a little bit up and down there. Question to Terje. Can you explain what it is that people why do people use your sites, your websites instead of eBay's when they're advertising too? What makes them want to use your websites? Answer. We have a philosophy behind our websites. Going into detail of what that consists of actually is industrial information that we do not want to share. We have long experience. We've been doing this for almost 15 years now, and as time has passed, we have developed a philosophy of how these sites should be in these three different phases, how they should perform.

We follow this fairly slavishly, and it's been successful. Mr. Ryssdal, or you want more information, Terje says, "Keep it back." We have to be careful that we don't share a lot of information with our competitors. There's a balance that we have to strike here in how much disclosure we make. Question to Terje. Potential threats from these social networks as regards online classifieds, what can you say about that? Terje. There are two areas that could be potential threats. The one is the mobile, which is the strategy area that we're going to probably be focusing most on this year. The other is the social media. The social media, and especially Facebook, we see them as possibilities or opportunities rather than threats.

That's how we view them in the short term and, in fact, also in the long term. Question. VG and Aftonbladet. You say there hasn't been a change in the trend, do you think you're going to go down to one-digit this year growth rather than double-digit growth? Mr. Ryssdal. Well, it's difficult to say that. If we look at the positive things that Dagbladet has said, I think that this goes in waves, up and down. I would hope and believe that this is the case, for the moment, there's no change in this trend. I think there's a lot of really good work being done, not at least in Aftonbladet in a difficult situation. All right. The last question was here. Question to Rolv Erik.

If we look at the list of the principal shareholders, we see that Sweden has fewer shares than Luxembourg. Just 3.1% of your shares are owned by Sweden and 3.6% owned by Luxembourg. What do you have to say about that? Well, we've done something about that already, in fact. Yesterday, we registered this merger with Media Norway. This means that activities that are in Sweden are going to be large shareholders, 4.5%. We also have noted a lot of interest among institutional investors in Stockholm, and we're going to go visit them, in fact. Oh, sorry. Mr.

Berger, a lot of the analysts in Sweden that have followed us for a long time, and then they've turned their attention other places, and now they're back looking at us. There are natural fluctuations that we take with the utmost of, we take it very easily. All right. It's 10 o'clock, and now we say thank you so much for following along with the webcast. The

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