Good day, and welcome to the Spanish Broadcasting System Q4 and full year 2021 earnings conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing star then zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on a touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Brad Edwards, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Tom, and good morning, everyone. Before we begin, please recognize that certain statements on this conference call are not historical fact. They may be deemed, therefore, to be forward-looking statements under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. In particular, statements about future results expected to be obtained from the company's current strategic initiatives are forward-looking statements. Many important factors may cause the company's actual results to differ materially from those discussed in any such forward-looking statements. Spanish Broadcasting System undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise its forward-looking statements. Please also note that we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures.
The company believes that operating income or loss before depreciation and amortization, gain or loss on the disposal of assets, recapitalization costs, and other operating income or expense, excluding non-cash stock-based compensation or Adjusted OIBDA, is useful in evaluating its performance because it reflects the measure of performance for the company's stations before considering costs and expenses related to capital structure and dispositions. This information is not intended to be considered in isolation or as a substitute for operating income, net income or loss, cash flows from operating activities, or any other measure used in determining the company's operating performance or liquidity that is calculated in accordance with US GAAP.
A reconciliation of the company's US GAAP information to Adjusted OIBDA is provided in the tables attached to the company's 2021 Q4 and full year earnings release, which is available on the investor relations section of the company's website at www.spanishbroadcasting.com. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Albert Rodriguez.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the SBS 2021 Q4 and full year 2021 conference call. On today's call, we will provide an overview of recent operating developments and review our financial results. Joining me today are José I. Molina, our Chief Financial Officer, and Richard D. Lara, our General Counsel. We delivered industry-leading performance in the Q4 and ended another successful year for SBS on a very high note. Our audio division continues to generate strong growth, and this quarter marked our third consecutive quarter of growth compared to 2019 pre-pandemic levels. In 2021, we delivered consolidated revenue growth of 20% and Adjusted OIBDA growth of 25%. Our performance was driven primarily by our audio business, where revenues and Adjusted OIBDA increased by 27% and 58%, respectively.
These results clearly speak to the strength of our audio stations and rapidly accelerating digital revenue streams. Today, SBS is a leading Spanish-language multimedia certified minority-owned company and at a time when Latino population is rapidly expanding in size, purchasing power, and being increasingly targeted by major brands. 2020 US Census confirms that Hispanic group by more than 23%, more than any other group. It also confirmed that Hispanics represent 19% of the total population. On 10 March , 2022, the US Census put out a public statement that it had erroneously undercounted Hispanics, Blacks, and Native Americans by nearly 19 million Americans. The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and many other publications across the country reported that 19 million Americans are not a rounding error, and the US Census needs to correct this immediately.
The US Census undercounted nearly 5% of Hispanics and completely misclassified them. We are currently working with government officials and agencies for a correction and a restatement. SBS Audio is the fastest growing audio broadcaster in the nation. In the Q4 , SBS grew audio revenue higher and faster than any broadcaster in the nation. That is regardless of any general market or Hispanic broadcaster. Our unmatched leadership market position is clearly evidenced by several of our stations recently achieving top local biller status in key markets such as New York and Miami, and most recently Los Angeles as the top biller in the entire market.
In addition, we have strategically expanded our footprint with the addition of audio stations in Orlando and Tampa, further enhanced our digital capabilities, and added unique and compelling content like the recent addition of the nationally syndicated Omar and Amelia show that joins our Mega 96.3 morning lineup in Los Angeles. We finished the year strong, and none of the general market or Hispanic market peers have carried significant momentum into 2022. The power of multimedia assets has never been stronger, and our strategy and strong execution is consistently delivering industry-leading growth. 2022 is going to be another incredible, exciting year for SBS, and we're looking forward to keeping everyone updated on our progress. Now let's review our operations, and we'll start with the AIRE Radio Network. Q4 in 2021, AIRE Radio Networks outpaced the marketplace by 30%.
AIRE Network was able to widen the gap and had strong categories in this period. Such categories included pharmaceuticals by 254%, government by 87%, insurance with 81%, retail 78%, and QSR with 20%. AIRE continues its commitment to super serving Hispanics and to assert its position as the largest minority and certified Spanish language audio network in the nation. Its core competitive advantages include 95% reach of the US Hispanic market, 15 million weekly listeners across 100 markets nationwide, and presence in the top 50 US Hispanic markets. One of the key highlights for AIRE's initiatives includes Al Aire con El Terrible, La Mezcla con Alex Sensation, the influencer network delivering campaign messaging through a national platform while penetrating local markets, and Artistas360, where the brands are aligned with Latin artists.
For the full year, AIRE Radio Networks was up by 45%. Miller Kaplan reported the market was up by 11%. AIRE outperformed the marketplace by 34%. It set new record-breaking revenue numbers. This is a result of new business development combined with the launch of culturally relevant integrated content. Turning to our audio division, where we are number one in our top markets across the nation with unrelenting rock-solid rating performance and listener growth. Our deep-rooted and hyperlocal super serving of the Hispanic community has driven our success. We have content and personalities that listeners just absolutely love to listen to. New York, we report again and again that we are the most potent audio combo in all of the five boroughs. Proof of the synergy and passion of the New York team.
WSKQ 97.9 FM is the number one station in the nation, and WPAT 93.1 Amor, we have the number one and number two station in the city. Our genuine involvement and listener appreciation of the New York Hispanic community has allowed us to build an unshakable listener relationship. WSKQ Mega 97.9 and WPAT 93.1 Amor are the top stations in the market, regardless of language. Our online digital stream ratings indicate that WSKQ La Mega FM is the fastest-growing and the number one most-listened-to station, all of New York in any language format and all of the top demographics every quarter, year after year. We continue to innovate and open new opportunities for growth in audience and revenues. For example, we just launched a new initiative. Our programming team created a new original audio-on-demand content now available on laMusica.com.
Original and the best moments of our top shows across the nation are now available on laMusica.com. We are now turning to Los Angeles. We are very, very excited to announce the launch of Omar and Nayeli in the Morning Show on KXOL Mega 96.3 FM. This is no ordinary morning show. They are a married couple with over 18 years of success. On day one of the launch on their new home, our streaming numbers more than tripled in audience. The show is fun and unexpected, breathtaking moments. The listeners have spread the word among friends and family that Omar and Nayeli are now on Mega 96.3 FM KXOL Los Angeles. Just a few months after returning to the home, DJ Eddie One is now the number one rated show in the afternoon, adults 18 to 34 on KXOL from 3:00 P.M. to 7:00 P.M.
KLAX La Raza is the number one Hispanic regional Mexican station in the nation and in all of Los Angeles, and is home to the number one Hispanic morning show, El Terrible. His commitment to the community, providing food, wellness information, and the original fun entertainment makes us the number one morning show among all Hispanics in Los Angeles. Puerto Rico ratings have continued to explode. We have a station with the number one in each demographic, WODA La Nueva 94, number one, 18 to 34. Mega 106.9, number one, 18 to 49. WZNT, number one, men, 25 to 54. In Miami, WCMQ-FM Zeta 92.3 is at the top in the morning show with audio and video journalist Oscar Haza.
It also remains number one weekly with adults 18 to 34 demo. WXD J El Zol 106.7 is gearing up for our upcoming Miami Bash concert, a highly anticipated event by our listeners that creates excitement in the market. WRMA Ritmo 95.7 is at the heart of the Cuban community and is the home of unique blend of musical sounds and artists exclusive to the station, not heard anywhere else. Ritmo 95.7 is the only station that has established a powerful connection to listeners and clients in Miami and South Florida with its continuous supports of community efforts. Our overall station impressions continue to surpass the vast market, according to Miller Kaplan. Q4 marked our twentieth back-to-back quarter of outperformance as we beat our competitors by 210 basis points.
Now to Mega TV, where our national footprint remains more than 21 million homes via cable and satellite broadcast partners. Our prime-time content remains in an area of focus, and we are making progress driving audience growth among critical demographic groups. Turning now to our live events division. SBS Entertainment produced and delivered Maga Bash in New York City on 4 December at the Prudential Center, followed by Miami Bash at the FTX Arena in Miami on 17 December . Both concerts achieved record-breaking attendance and revenue. SBS also produced and delivered the first three-day sold-out Calibash concert in L.A. at the Staples Center, 14 January through 16 January. SBS Entertainment also launched the first-ever Latin Festival Commemorative NFT, celebrating the 15th anniversary of the Calibash brand. Calibash Las Vegas and Día Nacional de la Banda also saw record-breaking attendance and revenue, outperforming all years.
The sponsorship revenues completely broke all records in the history of the Calibash and Calibash Las Vegas attendance. Based on the momentum and performance of the entertainment division, the company has focused on a robust calendar of events for 2022, including Mexican regional format concerts in markets like Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Additional markets that will be activated with events is Orlando, Día Nacional de la Zalsa, Guaya Guaya, that are the company's outdoor festival events that will be produced and delivered at the end of this month. The entertainment division follows all local, state, and federal guidelines with respect to COVID protocols, and we are proud to have executed all the events in a safe manner for our listeners, and we will continue to produce a safe and cutting-edge experience. Now turning to mobile and digital platforms and our strategic initiatives.
Over the last several years, we have had great success transforming SBS into a leading multimedia Hispanic media company. Today, we connect brands with more Hispanics than ever before, and aggregate audience continues to expand. For our brand partners, there has never been a more important time to have a Latino-focused marketing strategy and outreach program. The Latino population is growing rapidly in size, cultural influence, and purchasing power. SBS has the multimedia assets, the reach, and over four decades of experience, commitment to the Latino community across the US. As such, we can deliver compelling and integrated advertising opportunities that cross all major media platforms and offer access to coveted demographic groups. As I stated, our aggregate audience continues to grow. As of 31 December , our total audience was up 16% compared to the prior year.
Our LaMusica platform reaches over 1.6 million people who combine over 17 million streaming hours per month. Usage and adoption of LaMusica continues to accelerate as it offers a truly unique mobile and digital experience, including original daily video content, short-form programming, millions of songs, and personalized experience. Overall, we have placed strategic emphasis in identifying new digital revenue streams, as well as increasing our CPMs on existing digital offerings. During the Q4 , our total streaming audience surpassed 1.6 million unique listeners per month. This audience delivered over 49 million listening hours and over 42 million total sessions in the quarter. Given Hispanics heavily over-index on mobile phone ownership and usage, mobile remains the primary driver of our mobile digital traffic and accounted for approximately 95% of our total digital traffic in the quarter.
In the Q4 , LaMusica had a record of 480 audio ad impressions, in addition to 130 million display impressions and 89 million video pre-roll impressions. A key driver of our growth in streaming hours and sessions has been the expansion of our LaMusica user base, as well as increasing consumption of our podcasts and playlists with products, with an average time spent listening of over 45 minutes in the most popular categories. In summary, the Q4 was a terrific end to another year of strong execution and consistent industry-leading growth across all areas of our business, audio stations, AIRE and Mega TV, and all of our digital platforms. We have grown our audience share, strengthened our content, and expanded our revenue streams. Today, we offer more touchpoints with the Latino consumer than ever before, including across the most coveted demographics.
We are connecting brands with a rapidly expanding Latino audience in more creative and dynamic ways than anyone else in the industry. We entered 2022 with momentum, a multimedia strategy that is working, and an incredible team. We expect 2022 will be another highly successful year for SBS. Thanks for your time and attention. Now let me turn the call over to José Molina for the financial overview.
Thank you, Albert. Turning to our Q4 results. Our consolidated revenues totaled $46 million compared to $40.2 million for the same prior year period, resulting in an increase of $5.8 million or 14%. Excluding political sales, a non-GAAP measure, our consolidated revenues totaled $45.3 million compared to $36.1 million for the same prior year period, resulting in an increase of $9.2 million or 26%. Our radio revenues totaled $42.2 million, increasing $8.2 million or 24%. This growth was primarily due to increases in local, network, and digital revenue streams, which continued to improve sequentially quarter-over-quarter in 2021.
Radio revenues, excluding political sales, totaled $41.7 million compared to $31.2 million for the same prior year period, resulting in an increase of $10.5 million or 34%. Additionally, our radio revenues exceeded the same pre-pandemic period in 2019 by $1.3 million or 3%. Our television revenues decreased approximately $2.4 million or 39% due to lower local and national revenues, primarily due to a decrease in political sales. Excluding political sales, our television revenues totaled $3.6 million compared to $4.9 million for the same prior year period, resulting in a decrease of $1.3 million. Our consolidated Adjusted OIBDA, a non-GAAP measure, totaled $18.6 million compared to $16.3 million for the same prior year period, representing an increase of $2.3 million or 14%.
Excluding the effects of political sales, our consolidated Adjusted OIBDA totaled $18 million compared to $12.6 million, resulting in an increase of $5.4 million or 43%. Our radio Adjusted OIBDA increased $8.3 million or 54%, primarily due to the revenue growth of $8.2 million and lower operating expenses. Our radio station operating expenses decreased mainly due to decreases in compensation and benefits related to the Employee Retention Credit, the allowance for doubtful accounts, and special event expenses, partially offset by increases in local commissions, barter expense, music license fees, rating services, and professional fees. Excluding the effects of political sales, our radio Adjusted OIBDA totaled $23.3 million compared to $13 million for the same prior year period, resulting in an increase of $10.3 million or 80%.
Additionally, our radio Adjusted OIBDA exceeded the same pre-pandemic period in 2019 by $2.5 million or 12%. Our television Adjusted OIBDA decreased $2.1 million due to lower revenues, partially offset by a decrease in operating expenses of approximately $300,000. Our television station operating expenses decreased due to decreases in compensation and benefits related to the Employee Retention Credit and the allowance for doubtful accounts, partially offset by the lack of production tax credits in 2021, which has increased our net production costs compared to the same prior year period. Excluding the effects of political sales, our television Adjusted OIBDA decreased $1.1 million compared to the same prior year period. Corporate expenses increased $3.9 million, primarily due to increases in compensation and benefits and outside services, offset by a decrease in directors' and officers' insurance.
Operating income totaled $17.7 million compared to $13.6 million for the same prior year period, representing an increase of $4.1 million or 30%. Capital expenditures during the Q4 were approximately $752,000. As of yesterday, we had cash on hand of approximately $20 million. In addition, we have an undrawn $15 million revolver fully available if needed. As disclosed earlier this year, we entered into an asset purchase agreement to acquire two FM radio stations located in the Orlando and Tampa area for a purchase price of $12.25 million. We have already made a deposit of $1.25 million, and the balance will be due at close. This transaction is expected to close in the beginning half of the Q2 .
We will be using cash on hand to acquire these stations.
We believe that these stations and the markets they serve are strategic due to their growing Hispanic population, and that these stations are going to be accretive to our operating performance. This will conclude our formal remarks. With that, I would like to turn the call over to the operator for any questions. Operator?
We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you'd like to ask a question, press star then one on a touch-tone phone. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. We will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.
Very good.
The first question comes from Patrick Wang with Voya Investment. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Patrick.
Good morning. How are you guys?
We're doing great.
Great, great. A few questions. The recent spike in high gas prices, has it affected your listenership, you know, demographics in the cities?
It has not affected our listenership whatsoever.
Right. Is there a way you can tell from the ratings.
There's really no correlation that with higher gas prices, people are gonna listen less to our content. It would be the reverse. People would wanna be more in tune to what's going on in the nation with the economy, maybe with gas prices maybe going up a little bit. They'd wanna because our DJs, our influencers, are trusted mentors to millions of Hispanics across the nations, and these mentors that you know, our DJs, our influencers, are basically giving them what's going on in the news, so they're gonna listen to them more.
Right. Well, what I'm getting at is the reduced miles driven, that people just don't drive as much, because gas is $6 a gallon. [inaudible]
Yeah, I mean.
Okay.
We're not seeing any correlation of that whatsoever. To the contrary, our ratings are going to continue to be very, very strong. With the electronic measurement, we have not seen a dip in ratings or even really, at least to listeners, having an adverse effect.
Right. Good. Albert, a question for you on TV. It's been a loss making for the past year and the revenue declined and also negative EBITDA margin. As I recall, you know, in 2017, 2019, those EBITDA margins are around 20%. So what's causing the negative EBITDA margin? And also what's your future plan for TV? You know, what's the current status of subscriber base? And I know you don't have any affiliate fees, but you know, what's driving that recovery for TV or lack thereof?
Look, for obvious reasons, television broadcasters are feeling the impact with streaming. A lot of viewership has gone to the streaming. The other thing that impacted our operations was the fact of the tax incentive in Puerto Rico in terms of us producing and getting the Puerto Rican government to give the local broadcasters there the incentive. Now we are working with the local government in Puerto Rico and we are working and my understanding is they are working in changing legislation back to where it was or close to where it was. Look, we're hopeful for that, but I do think my opinion is that TV will be in the positive for this year. There's been a lot of activity. There's gonna be a midterm election.
That's gonna keep television very, very busy. I'm hopeful in that sense.
All right. The ending subscriber for TV still around 3 million for Hispanic households?
I couldn't hear the question. I'm sorry.
Sorry?
We couldn't hear your question. Sorry, Patrick. Can you repeat that?
What's the latest subscriber count for the TV subscribers?
Well, for ours, it's with our subscriber base, it's gone down about 10% to 20%.
Yeah.
It fluctuates month by month. Yeah. Right now the subscriber base is about 3 million, roughly.
$3 million. Okay. Okay. Again, this leads to political because I think political will be important for TV, definitely for radio. What's the total expectation for a midterm election? In the past, you talked about $15 million for political, Florida being a swing state. What's your latest thoughts on the political side.
Look, the target.
[crosstalk]for TV and radio?
Like for TV and radio and digital is gonna be a big target. It's not just gonna be for Florida, it's gonna be for all of the battleground states in the nation, including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan. Because of our audio listenership, we will get political buys across the nation, including Arizona, plus all of our owned and operated. The target is still close to anywhere from $12 million to $15 million. We're very optimistic it's gonna be a very busy political season because of obviously the two branches of government. The House of Representatives and the Senate are so close, and that's just gonna mean that that's a great opportunity for broadcasters and for the reach that we have.
Right. You're thinking 12 to 15?
Yes.
Okay. Last question regarding the two stations you acquired in Florida. Can you disclose the station EBITDA and station-level EBITDA cash flow?
We, you know, very
On par with your existing margins.
We didn't buy it based on multiple. We bought a stick, and we're converting the format. It is an actual startup station, if you will.
Okay. Would there be any cost to ramp it up to your format?
Yes, there'll be some CapEx to it. There'll be some marketing behind it. There'll probably be, you know, a couple of months or maybe a month of non-commercial just to get the ratings up. Yes. We do believe in a short amount of time it will be accretive and, you know, the purchase price is a very attractive purchase price, and we think that we can do very well in these two markets, which are very big. Hispanic population and [crosstalk].
Look, based on the market size, Orlando for Hispanic is ranked number 14. Tampa is ranked 18. Tampa, as everyone knows, is one of the largest national test markets in the nation. We're gonna do very well in both of those markets.
Okay. Great. [inaudible] , thank you. That's all I have.
Thank you.
Thank you, Patrick.
Thank you. Have a good Easter.
The next question comes from Tim Padgett with RBC. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Tim.
Hey, guys. Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Here we are in mid-April. Can you talk a little bit about the trends that you saw in the Q1 from both the radio and the TV side?
Trends are very strong. We're up locally. National, it's gonna be flat to off a little bit. We're going up against some comps from last year. Network is plus 30% to 40%. Overall, we're gonna have an incredible quarter to report. We can't wait to report it.
Perfect. I know last quarter we talked about maybe being on track for getting over $50 million of EBITDA this year. Does that still seem like a reasonable goal to get that over $50 million and to get leverage back down below 6x?
That is the target. I have no doubt we'll be able to achieve that.
Okay, great. I think you talked before about the bond being callable in September 2023. Is that still the goal, potentially be able to take those out on that first call date in September 2023?
It's not really the goal. I mean, it's an option, and we'll evaluate it at that time. Our goal now is just to build, you know, increase EBITDA and you know, de-lever based on, you know, building cash on the balance sheet. At that moment, we'll make a decision.
Okay, great. On the events business, what should we expect for 2022? Could that generate cash, you think, this year?
We started off the Q1 very strong, and we have a very robust calendar of events for the rest of the year and for 2023. Like I mentioned in my comments before, it's been January was record-breaking and ever since record-breaking for five nights in terms of attendance. Record-breaking with respect to sponsorships. We've never done anywhere near the sponsorships that our Los Angeles team did. Very proud of our Rachel Lester in Los Angeles, who did a remarkable job. Not only she do a remarkable job, she broke the record of the entire SBS company in the history. We're very proud of what that Los Angeles team has done. Right now, that Los Angeles team is the number one biller in the entire market.
You can imagine how happy we are. I wanna clarify, not number one Hispanic biller, number one total market biller for our station Mega over every single general market and Hispanic broadcaster. No one even comes close.
Okay, great. Thank you. On liquidity, I think you said there was $20 million of cash on hand yesterday, and I guess there's $15 million available in the revolver. That is Obviously after paying the coupon and you owe how much left on the station that's to be acquired? Is it like another $11 million? Is that the right way to think about it?
Yeah, $11.25.
Okay, great. Maybe last question for me. What was the share count at the end of or the end, the most, the latest share count?
8.1 off the top of my head. Give me a second. 8.1, and then after the PVR is issued, it'll get to 9.3.
I think last quarter you said it was 9.7, but now the real number, like the diluted number is 9.3. Is that the right number to use?
Yeah, 9.3.
Awesome. Thank you, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you, Tim.
The next question comes from Umesh Bhandari with Legal & General. Please go ahead.
Good morning.
Hi, guys. Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I'm gonna just maybe first a simpler one. What is the earning potential when those two stations are fully ramped? What kind of, you know, EBITDA contributions do we expect from those two stations that you're acquiring?
I would say between $2 million and $5 million combined. As the market, I mean, these are growing markets, so.
I would say that would be short term because of the population growth in I-4 corridor with respect to Orlando and Tampa. That would be short term. If you follow the trade and you look up this company, Spanish Broadcasting, in most of the markets that we're in and owned and operated, we are the number one billers. I've already told our creative team to start working on ads for both Tampa and Orlando, because I expect that we're gonna be number one in ratings and number one in billing. I've already told them to start working and mocking up designs for us to review and approve those.
Got it. Thank you. Maybe the one sort of big picture question. I mean, you guys had a great 2021. Looks like, you know, you're gonna have probably another great 2022, especially with the political and all. Even with all that said, sounds like, you know, we are sort of aiming for $50 million of EBITDA in 2022 on a good sort of political year, and that means, you know, you'll be still north of 6x leverage. I guess my question is how do we sort of create shareholder value here? It seems like, you know, obviously the most obvious way to create shareholder value would be if you can delever to below 4x.
On a going basis, given the limitations of the cash flow, even the like, you know, solid EBITDA numbers that you're posting, I just don't see how we can sort of delever, you know, 4x. Maybe are there other sort of inorganic way to delever here? Or how should we sort of think about that?
Look, I think I'll let Brian answer your question right after I make these points. I think, number one, the best way to bring shareholder value is for the performance of the company. The company has performed better than every other radio broadcaster in the nation. I'll give you an example. In terms of with respect to radio, our radio revenue growth was in the mid 20%. The only other broadcaster in the nation that was even close to us was iHeart, with 9% growth. Everyone else was way below the mark. Most of them were flat. No one in the country was close to us with respect to radio growth. In terms of OIBDA growth, quarter-over-quarter, we were in the mid 50%.
I believe firmly the way to bring value to the shareholders is based on performance. After we do that and we continue to do that as a minority-certified broadcaster, okay, we are on every single major avail in the country, and we're gonna continue to grow faster than every other broadcaster. I'll let José answer. Did you wanna answer anything else?
I mean, I would say yes. Organically is probably the best way to look at it. Clearly our digital division is up and coming, and we're making the right investments to build out our digital capabilities. Network is another. You know, for all intents and purposes, our network division's only been around for seven years to eight years. That's growing leaps and bounds. In addition to that, you know, we acquired these two stations in up-and-coming markets. Leveraging the content and being here in Miami, I think those stations will do extremely well. National, with our new deal with Katz, we feel pretty bullish on that. Political seems like it's more constant now than it used to be before.
Now we're starting to see a lot more money year-over-year. Even in non-political years, you're starting to see some money. I would say organically. The future looks bright. It really does.
You know, you guys are performing very well. I mean, I was just talking more about like, you know, I think just given the leverage level, the amount of, you know, interest costs, interest burden then on the business, is it really. I mean, I guess when you put pencil to paper, do you see, you know, I'm not saying over the next year that put any kind of timeline, but do you see, EBITDA sort of trending above $60 million? Because I think that's really the kind of the only way you can sort of get this leverage sort of to a manageable level.
That can, you know, actually result in some shareholder value creation because if you just look at the equity right now, right, you know, it's $20 to $25 million of equity value. That feels like purely option value at this point. So how do you sort of, you know, create real equity value below the debt?
Well, look, it sounds like we're on our way. We're certainly on our way. We're growing revenue faster than every broadcaster in the nation. We're bringing value with everything that we are doing strategically. We are making absolutely the right moves going into markets like Tampa and Orlando that ranked 14th. Orlando is ranked number 14 with Hispanics and Tampa 18th. With the management team that we have in place that has been proven again and again with results, we're definitely on our way to increase the shareholder value.
Our goal, Umesh, is just basically building cash and then, you know, sometime down the line, look at our balance sheet.
Got it. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Umesh Bhandari.
Thank you, Umesh Bhandari.
The next question comes from Craig Kucera with Longfellow. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Craig.
Thanks for the time. Good morning. Good morning.
Hey, Craig.
A couple quick things. The TV business, given your potential view of streaming and the growth of streaming that you're seeing and your industry is seeing, generally speaking, is the TV business still core or is that something that you have or would consider possibly divesting?
Look, 95% to 99 % something of our overall business and profitability is on radio. TV obviously in terms of our platform is important. Now if an opportunity would arise, that's something that the company could look at and consider, but it would have to be obviously the right decision or the right move. Our platform is growing exponentially right now, and we're trying to keep up with the demand overall with our platforms, with audio, with digital. We just created an app for TV that's gonna help our streaming platforms. I do believe the combination of all of our assets together are gonna continue to grow for some time. Look, a testament to that is the 2020 census. I mentioned in my comments before, we're working with the census.
They clearly underreported it by 19 million. 5% of that was the Hispanic population, 3% was the African American. We're not happy about it, and we are pressing the local government officials to do the right thing, and correct that.
No, that makes sense. That makes sense. I appreciate the thoughts. With respect to it was nice to see CFO minus CFI and, you know, real free cash flow generation in 2021. It looks to be the highest we've seen in quite some time. The last period, 2018 and 2019, when you were generating north of $50 million of EBITDA, which is your target, the CFO minus CFI was quite muted for both periods. Do you expect 2022 to have a cash flow, a true free cash flow generation materially higher, commensurately higher with 2021 given the EBITDA growth? Are there other one-time items that you see?
Yeah, Craig, look.
Excluding acquisitions.
I'll give you the inputs and then you put them through your model here. I would say CapEx.
Okay.
Let's say roughly it's like $4 million I think in 2022. Let's say in the $4 million range. Cash taxes will probably be between $8 million this year. That's really cash taxes is really the delta between, you know, the prior years where we weren't a significant cash taxpayer. Those are the major ones. Basically interest clearly is roughly $30 and change. You know, assuming we're at $50, clearly there's a good amount of free cash flow that should spit out.
Okay. Okay, I appreciate that. That's all I have. Thanks for your time, guys, and keep up the good work.
Thanks, Craig.
Thank you, Craig.
Yeah.
The next question comes from Matthew Harrigan with Benchmark. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Matthew.
Morning, guys. I just wanted to ask, there were a couple of add backs related to PPP and other actions that were other government activities that were used as offsets for the cost lines in the Q4 . I know there were some expenses relating to getting the events business back up and running. Can you just provide some sort of outlook for at least the Q1 , if not the full year, on what the SG&A and corporate and the engineering lines will look like, the OpEx lines will look like in 2022?
Yeah. I'll give you some general ranges. I won't get too specific on that. I would say Q1, let's say total expenses, you're probably gonna be in the high $20 range. That's all, an all-in number. Just make note, clearly we had five events in Q1, so that drives cost up.
Okay. Is the number, you know, adjusted for the seasonality of those events? Is that sort of a sustainable number, or are there items in there either unusual expenses or unusual credits? You know, are you giving people raises, things like that I should be thinking about as the year goes on?
Yeah, no. Look, I think inflation is real. I think you know, we're in a tight labor market now. So that's definitely holds true. I think just in general, we are in a growth mode type, and there's a lot of opportunity for us. So we're definitely attacking everything that comes our way. In addition to that, we're building out our digital capabilities now, which we should. It's pretty much a real investment type of year for us from a digital standpoint. Network standpoint, we just hired a very talented morning show in Los Angeles.
Nice.
which, you know, will be syndicated as well. Yeah, look, we're making, I would say, prudent investments in the business, which, yeah, you are gonna see a tick-up in expenses, but you're also gonna see a tick-up in revenues as well. For the long term really are these investments being made.
Okay. All right. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question comes again from Patrick Wang with Voya Investment. Please go ahead.
Hey, good morning, Patrick.
Yeah, just a quick follow-up. Good morning again. Just a quick follow-up. Since you were talking about taxes, you're projecting $8 million this year. I'm surprised to see the taxes ticking up quite dramatically, 'cause you're not really a top taxpayer in the prior years, and you have NOL, last time I recall, $260 million. So what's the calculation here that you have to pay that much taxes?
Yeah. With the restructuring we had a Section 382, which limits the NOLs going forward. Yeah. Look, I think this year's gonna be $8 million, and as we grow the business, it'll continue to go up. You know, I think I've calculated all the way up to basically $14 million in the outer years. But again, that's subject to performance really.
Wait, what?
We are a cash taxpayer going forward.
Okay. You don't have any NOL left after the.
We do, Patrick. We have approximately $5 million for the next five years each year, so that's yielding about $1 million in taxes. You know, the tax reform limits the interest expense deduction, and that's really what's driving this in addition to, you know, Section 382, the limitation on the NOLs.
The tax deductions are captured in the tax calculation? It's not 100% fully taxable, deductible.
Correct.
Okay. You think that's just $8 million ramping up to $14 million, that's like staircase for the next five years?
I would say so. Again, that's just based on projections of models with income going up as well, right?
Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay, great. Thanks.
Thank you. Thank you, Patrick.
This concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the conference back over to management for any closing remarks.
I wanted to thank everyone for participating in today's Q4 year-end earnings call, and I'm very excited to discuss our Q1 earnings. I can't wait to get on the phone with you guys again, so we can discuss our incredible results. Have a great day. Thank you.
Thank you.
The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.