Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. We're delighted to welcome you to Virši Investor Webinar. Today, we're hosted by Virši Chairman of the Management Board and CEO, Jānis Vība, as well as Member of the Management Board and CFO, Vita Čirjevska. During the webinar, you will be introduced with Virši most recent key activities and financial results, as well as an insight into company's future plans. After the presentation, we will have a Q&A session. To submit your question to the company, please use the Q&A window that you see on the bottom of your screen. The recording of this webinar will be available shortly after the session. Now, let me hand over to Jānis and Vita.
Thank you. Thank you, Yello. Good morning, dear participants of the webinar. Yeah, well, we had quite a, quite a strong and period in last six months, full of activities. Today, we, together with Vita, will tell you more about it. Let me, let me start by reminding what are the key business segments in which we are operating. We have convenience store segment, we have fuel sales, and we have also energy. What we would like to stress is that in terms of gross profit, the weight of gross profit, we see that in last six months, store and energy segments actually combined exceeded 50% of this gross profit on group level.
Which is completely in line with our overall strategy, that we would like to have a less dependence on fuel sales in future, we want to diversify our business model. This is on top, the fact that actually, fuel sales increased quite a lot. The store and energy segment was actually developing even even faster. Now, let's let's go maybe to a bit a bit broader view. What is happening in the energy markets? We have fuel, natural gas, and electricity as our key products in energy market. If we talk about fuel, we obviously see that back in February, there was an embargo imposed on Russian oil and oil products.
We see that obviously, Europe has become much, much, much less dependent on Russian oil. This Russian oil now is obviously going to Asia markets, particularly in China and India. In terms of volume, this Russian oil actually has not decreased significantly. It simply has changed the places where it's going. Because of that, obviously, Europe had less, less oil coming from Russia, which is obviously giving some pressure on the pricing of oil. On top of that, obviously, we see that the OPEC countries are trying to limit oil supply so that it would have some effect on price increase.
We also see this, that global growth in economy is actually still in place. It's not so that there is a huge recession overall. It means that demand for oil products is still quite significant. Therefore, in last couple of weeks, we actually see that there is some price increase in our oil products. If we go next to this natural gas market, we see that obviously there was huge fluctuations after Russian aggression happened to Ukraine. The prices were exceeding even at some point EUR 200 per MWh, but now we are actually back in level, which we see in 2021.
That is mainly because Europe has adapted to this new situation. Europe has increased hugely this capacity in LNG terminals, and therefore, natural gas in Europe has now become much more less dependent on pipelines, but instead, it is using LNG for this purpose. As a consequence, we see that the storage levels of natural gas is quite high, and therefore, the prices are somewhat lower than in previous quarters and back to 2021 level. Locally, if we speak about our regions, we see that terminals in Klaipėda and in Lithuania and in Inkoo, in Finland, are operating.
Therefore, this risk of, let's say, LNG shortage in our region, is obviously becoming quite small. Electricity segment, here again, obviously, it's very correlated to the pricing of natural gas. We see that lower natural gas is impacting also lower pricing for electricity. Therefore, in last couple of quarters, decrease in pricing level for electricity is quite huge. Still, currently, electricity is still around two times more expensive than it was in a period before the Russian invasion in Ukraine. Additionally, what we see is that there is a huge uptake in this solar capacity.
Solar energy is being produced, therefore, there are some days when the electricity pricing in the middle of the day, if it's a sunny day, and especially if it is also a windy day, we see that the electricity pricing is approaching even zero or even negative territory. Yeah, the other things is that in Latvia, we saw quite a big, let's say, floods in Daugava River, and that actually impacted our electricity generation capacity, therefore, we see that pricing was also quite decreasing in Q2 in Latvia, locally. All in all, that's a big picture about energy products.
Let me maybe go next to some of the highlights of what we have done in the last six months of 2023. Because there has been quite extensive job being done in various areas. Maybe let's start with development of station networks. In this period, we increased our number of stations by two, and these two stations are franchise stations in region of Eastern Latvia. This is quite important because in these places, we were not yet there, and therefore, this is obviously improving our geographical location, and therefore, we are able to make more market share gains.
There, there are couple of stations in which we are working. You also are seeing some of the pictures where we are either fully renovating the stations, or we are building some new stations. For example, in Satekla, there is a station which is offering only fuel currently, but we are building a new shop next to this station. There is Olaine, which is another place where we are constructing a new service station. Because near this new station is already existing station, which is showing very promising results, and this is obviously motivating us to expand this network even more in that region. That's new stations.
Then we are working on some new products and other initiatives, which are, let's say, the ones which require quite a heavy work over last 6-12 months. And we are now ready finally to launch these products and projects, but we will tell about them a bit shortly, so you can enjoy them in the rest of the webinar. Also important to note that we are still working on expansion of electricity charging stations. So together with funding from European Union institutions, we are now able to already offer this product in nine stations, where the power is around, combined power is around 200 kW, but the single power from single plugin is 160 kW.
These nine stations, which are already operating, they will grow to at least 14 stations by end of the year and to some 20 stations in the first half year of 2024. It's developing rapidly, and we see that actually, the statistics shows that customers are valuing this product, despite the fact that it is still taking quite a small, below 1%, market share of overall cars in Latvia.
For those webinar participants, which are maybe in Latvia, next next week, you are kindly invited in in August 16th, which is Wednesday, to to Virši station in Olaine, where we will have a, let me call it like, celebrations about the fact that we already have launched quite a big number of new stations in electricity. There will be several initiatives. For example, you will be able to drive some newest model, models of electricity cars. If you will come by your own car, you will get a free charging. There are some other things. If you are able to, please join us next Wednesday.
Sustainability, very obviously, important segment, in which we are still developing quite a lot of initiatives. Already half of stations, almost half stations are equipped with solar panels. In summer, for example, around up to 20% of our electricity is being produced with solar panels in those stations where they are located. Also important that starting from 2023, we can officially say that all electricity, which is being consumed on group level, is produced from Latvian producers, which are producing electricity from renewable resources. So that's already quite, I would say, important step, which we have taken in terms of sustainability.
Obviously, we have established also a sustainability group, in which employees from various functions are able to take part and come up with some new initiatives, which we are then evaluating on board level. The ESG report, which will be same as last year's, which will be published in September. That's on sustainability. We also had exercise where we refreshed our mission, vision, and values of the company. First time we did it was actually in 2019. Now in 2023, we actually-- we did, like a re... Not, not a rebranding, but refreshing exercise to this.
Now we have a clear, clear vision and mission, and the values updated according to the current situation in which we are operating. Because a couple of years ago, we still did not have this energy segment, now we have it. We made some changes so that, so that employees have this, let's say, guidance, what we are expecting from them and where we want to be as an organization. That's about a few items which happened in first half of 2023, and now Vita will tell more about shop.
Yeah. The convenience store, let's go. About the convenience store development and challenges in these first six months. Actually, they can be split in two sections. One is innovation, and one is sustainability. If we look at the innovation part, for a lot of you watching and for other subscribers on public channels, there was an or a robot that came out this week, and that made quite a big noise in the market. Actually, we're working quite a lot on new products in the fuel stations and also working on the strategies on the new sales channels.
If we look at the Virši coffee, actually, it's already in this August, from the beginning of the August, also available on the store chain top! in Latvia. That's available on quite more many places than the only fueling stations. It's also in the stores and in much broader network than it was before. Already in the August and in the second part of the year, we'll see the actual results of demand in there. We're also working in several projects that are sort of new kind of sales channels, new kind of shops, and I'll present you them later in this presentation. At the same time, we have been working also on our product itself, and we are reviewing this from the side of sustainability and ESG perspective.
We are also evaluating this life cycle of products and also the storage and the way the store is actually built, and products are stored to have less leftovers in the production process, and to be clear about who is the supplier and how, how we do cope with the leftovers when, when the life cycle of the product ends. In this first half of the year, there, there has been a huge program and an investigation, and actually, like sculpturing of the coffee product. The leftovers of the coffee production process are already in the biogas station.
If we look at the coffee already itself, it has full scope, and it has, it is fully aligned in with the sustainability requirements we have set up for ourselves. In the further periods, we plan to go over rest of the products, analyze them, and try to improve at all levels and all processes that we can. Of course, this has been a, also challenging period, from network side in a, in a labor market. If in the past periods, we also stressed always this labor market side dynamics and the problems with that. 2021 and 2020, it was mostly because of the sick leaves, mostly because of COVID and pandemics regulations.
Actually, this year, and it actually started already in the past year, there are, quite a challenging situation in the labor market, because Latvia is experiencing the lowest rate of the unemployment. Actually, dynamics in the labor market price rate, especially in the market segment, they are quite challenging. If we look at the, the, I don't know, the public information, how the rate has been changing over the past three years, that would be a rollercoaster, and it's upside. It's also challenging for us to manage the labor costs on the profit and loss side.
But all in all think we are in a good position in the market and also with the labor requirements, and we're trying to make this environment for our employees the best we can and change the rates in a way we see that it's applicable and competitive in the market. If we look at the store results, it also showed the good dynamics. Actually, the economics are still in turbulent position in Latvia, but if we look at the growth rate of Virši store turnover, we see that there is a growth of 23.8% by Nielsen data that observes all the petrol stations. But the network itself has been growing by 16.5%, and that's including the Virši growth.
We can say that we are in quite strong position, and we continue to grow our market position, and we see that this growth continues over the past periods as well, and we see there is a prosperous future in this segment as well, for, for us there. Now about the innovations. The one I touched already before is the coffee robot, which actually made a big sound in the market and this week, and made a quite big interest in the public. Of course, everybody evaluates this new new employee of Virši from its own perspective, how acceptable it is for, for you to see the robot working instead of the person.
This is a quite interesting, actually quite interesting store, and we suggest you all to visit Spice Shopping Center and have this experience and see how our barista works. If we see in the fueling stations that coffee has always been more attractive to the family, the old- the oldest members of the family, and then this small store, that will be also a very interesting place for, for the kids. You can get more than 20 drinks from our barista, applicable for any taste. This has been like the first, the second step in the August, where we have been stepping out of fueling stations with our coffee, with our stores itself.
As I mentioned, we are in a top! shop network with a coffee and now also with a coffee robot in Spice's shopping center. We also have the third innovation for our network, and it's opening up in September this year. We had had a lot of requests for our clients in the center of Riga, where there has not been any Virši coffee, but there are a lot of Virši coffee lovers. From the September of this year, in Tērbatas Street 24, in the very center of Riga, we have found the place that is, we believe, the best fit for Virši stores.
We will have the first Virši store itself without fuel products, but with new, updated, and more extensive shopping offer. If you are in Riga, don't hesitate to visit, and you are welcome.
Yeah, definitely.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, let's go to fuel. Fuel, what is happening in the market, is that we still see that biggest players are continuing to increase their market share, which effectively means that this market consolidation is still happening. We also see that there is quite a, quite a big, let's say, competition or fight, for a retail segment, because obviously we are gaining the market share, someone is losing it, and nobody wants to lose the market share. There is a lot of promotions, discounts, and marketing activities, which are negatively impacting the margins of the product. Overall, what we have done, is a really strong performance in terms of fuels, amount sold.
We have increased our volumes by more than 14% in last six months versus last year. While in Latvia overall, the increase is only a bit more than 2%, so it's a quite a significant market share gain, and we will obviously continue to do it in a similar pattern in future. Also on alternative fuels, I remind that we are still the only ones which are offering CNG product in the Latvian market. We are actually happy to see that this market is still growing, despite the fact that there were some challenges with price of natural gas in the last couple of quarters.
What we see is that we are able to grow CNG amount by 18% versus last year. Which is obviously showing that our customers are still valuing this less CO2 product, which we are offering. In terms of electrical cars, this is a market which is increasing, obviously, and we have currently around 5,000 electrical cars in the market. Still, given the fact that total market is much higher or larger, these 5,000 cars are constituting around 0.6% of the total market. Overall, I would say quite strong performance from fuel market.
Which is also important to note is that there is a project which we have been working for quite a long time, I would even say. We have finally launched a mobile application in Apple Store and Google Play in August 9th, which is basically Wednesday this week. Now any customer who is visiting our stations is able to download this application and very simple choose which product to fill and basically to pay by not going into the store.
That's one thing, but another thing is that obviously, this app can also be used to have some paying functionality also on store products and having these discounts on store products. Which is also important, that finally you can get rid of your plastic card. You can obviously combine it with your bank card and a mobile app, and in that way become a bit, bit more nature friendly. I would really invite everybody to try to test this app, which is very fresh. Of course, we understand that there might be some some few maybe issues at first, but currently what we see is that this popularity is growing quite significantly for this app, and hopefully we will continue in the same way.
On electricity, a couple of things. So that's our third segment or energy segment in which we are working. You can see that this electricity, which we are selling to our customers internally in Latvia and also outside of Latvia, is growing very rapidly. In the first half of 2023, we actually sold already 130 GWh of electricity, which is quite a significant amount, given the fact that we only launched this segment only around two years ago. Therefore, we see that our B2B customer portfolio is increasing in our electricity segment quite significantly. We are also working extensively with more than 60 producers of renewable electricity in Latvia.
Also actively trading this renewable electricity, which we have bought, this trading certificates, so that there are quite a big demand for these green certificates, which are proving this say, green or renewable origin of our electricity and is becoming like a revenue stream for us. Also important thing, very important, we already announced that we are working on electricity product for households, and we can officially announce that in by end of September, we will launch this product into the market. Currently, all employees already are using this product, and we will be ready by end of the September to launch this product for households.
Anybody who is interested from your side, of course, please join this product because we are feeling that it will be a very strong product in the market, and you can also you will be able to combine this product with our already existing products and therefore have a quite a strong product package to use. Okay. Finance.
Okay. We can, I will start our financial ratios presentation with a bit of a look at the Latvian market, as I do it always. If we look at the GDP growth in last six months in Latvia, there has been ups and downs in respect to the quarterly changes. In the first quarter, there was +0.8, and then there was a drop of 0.9. Still, Latvian Bank sees that this year could finish at around 1.2 GDP growth and still quite high inflation rate of 8.5. If we look at the Virši situation, as you saw in the previous slide, in general terms, there has been a growth in all segments, and the situation is quite strong.
Looking at the financial data, we see that, for instance, turnover grows by 5%. As a fueling station and network, we are quite correlating with the fuel price change. If you look at this retail segment and fuel prices in the first six months of 2023 compared to 2022, there has been actually the price drop of 11.1%. Thus, turnover rate is not quite indicated in this situation. It's rather gross profit that we present, and there has been growth of 10%. Mainly this growth has been generated by two segments, which is convenience stores and energetics, e-energy sector.
But the fueling part of the business has been quite a big run in the last year's first six months due to the changes in geopolitics. There has been a big increase in demand and high peaks in the profits, and this year has been more back to the normal situation. If we look at the rest of the costs, there has been increase, and we will analyze it later in this presentation. But we are happy, actually, about the EBITDA or EBITDA ratio for Virši, because there has been growth of 14.5%, and we have reached EUR 7.6 million in the first six months, and compared to last year, EUR 6.6 million
That has been quite a systematic work from the gross profit side and also controlling the costs, because cost side has been affected a lot by the inflation that was running high, especially in the last part of the year of 2022, and it's affecting the ratio still this year. If we look at this ROE, I would suggest you looking at the ROE adjusted here, and you see that it's still remaining in the level of 2022. There has been an effect to the net profit from the derivatives we are having in our asset portfolio.
We can say that, if you remember the third slide of the presentation, where Jānis was discussing the electricity market dynamics, then taking into account that we have still quite the same portfolio of the assets, from the derivatives of the electricity, the price changes that had the experienced market last year, in the first six months, where we needed to recognize the increase in the asset value of EUR 1.5 million, then a bit running down towards the year-end and dropping a lot this year, when we need to recognize minus of EUR 1.3 million in the value. All in all, we can still admit that our price instrument is still-...
quite below the actual market price. It's competitive. It's still asset with a plus sign. This roller coaster with the pricing in the past periods has been effective, affecting our profit and loss ratios for this period. If you look at the clean net profit results from the core business activities, then we see that there is a bit below 10% increase and reaching EUR 4.4 million in 2023, compared to EUR 4.1 million in 2021. We could extend the graphics back to the past periods and also prolong it to our financial plan to 2026, and you'll see that this is still around, you know, up in the mountain.
We see that there's quite challenging periods in front of us in respect to the high targets set. If we're looking at our balance sheet and cash flow balancing ratios, then we still have a quite low net debt to EBITDA ratio of one at the end of June of 2023. That's let's say it's a low in an average, but it's a very good position compared to what we are ex-expecting in front of us. Previously, we stated we plan to have 80 stations in 2024. We have not changed this target also at this point of time.
We know that by the end of the next year, we need to build up a bit less than 10 stations, and that is quite expensive investment period in front of us. We are in strong position to take on new liabilities and have more capital spending in the next period. Let's look at the net profit bridge, and if we look at the net profit, here we see the absolute numbers for the 2022 and 2023. We started this bridge with the 2022, when we had EUR 5.6 million in our profits. Clean net profits without financial derivatives would be EUR 4.1 million. Then we see how we are affected by our results.
We know that in gross profit, we made 10% more than in previous years' comparable periods. We know that the big bunch of this came from the convenience stores and also from energetics. As you saw from Jānis' presentation, we are having more than 50% of these two segments in our portfolio. Last year, with the market situation, actually, we were quite below and finished the year with a 44% in these two segments. We were quite affected by the inflation in the labor market and also in the rest of the costs. If we look at the selling costs, that is increased of around EUR 500,000, and most of this increase comes from the labor costs, that increased year-to-year by 15%.
There was also increase in rest of the costs to operate the infrastructure. Altogether, we still managed to make EBITDA of almost EUR 1 million, more than in the past year's first six months, or an increase it by 14.5%. If we look at the rest of the positions, we know that our network is still expanding and depreciation is growing, and that's, I'd say it's controllable and understandable, and we can cope with these expenses. There has been also the position in the interest income and expenses, where it has been increased more out of our control, because still in 2022, in the first half of the year, Euribor has been negative.
Thus, we only had our fixed margin on our loan portfolio, but, since 2022, middle July, and, up until now, when, in, this August, Euribor is reaching, almost 4%, the interest rates are still running high, the inflation is still running high, and, in this year, our interest expenses have doubled. We're trying to manage, these, expenses by overnight deposits and, like, very, conservative management of the loan portfolio. Also this year, by now, we have not still taken any more loans, and, it's just a payback of the old loans and management on our operating, cash flow. Yeah, that's, that's the position that is, we're still looking forward, for the Euribor to drop, but, it's...
We can manage them, but it's not a pleasant situation as it's out of our control. In the bottom line, if you look at the adjusted net profits, we have grown by almost 10% or EUR 385,000. This has been a very strong increase compared to what's happening in the market. We are looking at this six months period, the challenging period, but with a high, high results, and they are much higher than we actually budgeted in our management estimates. We see this unpleasant minus that is driving our net profits in absolute value slower.
As I explained already before, that's just the net result of what was happening in the markets and in the energy sector last year, compared to where that it's now. Although we are experiencing this high peak and a drop in this year, it's still with a positive sign because the agreements we have been signing in the past years gives us confidence and a good price for the next periods to come until 2027. That is what it is. Also the shareholders from the last year experienced the same increase in the profits and the dividends, that draw also the corporate income tax a bit higher from the dividend distributed.
In general terms, the situation is stable. It also helps us to manage and control our cash flow situation with our financial instruments we're having right now, and the net profits for the period have been quite high and pleasant for us as a management.
Yep. Okay. Thank you. So, before we jump to the questions, let us look at strategic goals. I might remind you that when we launched IPO, we had a strategic long-term goals up until 2024. Obviously, because 2024 is already next year, so we needed to refresh and revise our goals for a longer period, which is 2026. What we see is that there are concrete targets which we want to achieve in 2026, including EBITDA, EBITDA, I guess that's more than... Yeah, also net profit. Basically, we see that this development of organization's profitability is expected to still be very significant, especially if you exclude these one-offs from this financial instrument.
The way how we will do it is we will continue to strongly develop our service station network. We see that an optimal number, which we would have to reach by 2026, is around 90 stations. Currently, we have 72, so we need to open at least five to six stations per year. We see that next year will be actually, we might open even more. Next year will be very, let's say, critical in terms of expansion, where we will be opening new stations in very strong places. Which should result, obviously, in even higher market shares for our segments. We are continuing to develop our alternative fuels.
Again, currently, we are already number one in alternative fuels because we are offering CNG products, which is nobody else able to do in the market. That's obviously besides, this product which we are already offering. The next couple of years, we will be still working on LNG, on biomethane, and potentially also on hydrogen, so that, by 2026, we have a quite a big range of alternative fuels to offer to our customers in a, let's say, ESG- friendly way. Then, obviously, you need to mention this business diversification and in particular, this gross profit. What are the sources from which this will be coming?
We see that this dependency on fuel segment will be becoming even less in a couple of years. We estimate that more than 55% of our gross profit should come from non-fuel segments, which is completely in line with our overall strategy to become less dependent on fuel segment. None of this obviously mentioned above would be possible without top talent in our organization. We will continue to work hard on becoming even more, even stronger employer to our employees, so that we are able to attract the top talent from the market and also to develop existing one. Therefore, we are continuing to keep our goal to become top 10 employer in the Latvian market by 2026.
Just a reminder, in 2022, we were in top 40, so still a way to go, but not, not something which, which would be impossible to do. That's it from presentation, yeah.
Thank you. Let's now continue with the Q&A. The questions keep coming in already. Please use the Q&A window should you like to join our discussion today. First question that we have received: What is revenue growth in comparable stations, excluding those added during past rolling 12 months versus last year?
Mm-hmm. That's actually from our, let's say, limited information side. We're not providing such an information. You could have some comparison to the, to these, information we're giving in the management report about the stations that are incoming, and have some understanding on the average growth. We can say for sure that we are looking forward, the, the old stations as well as the new stations, and putting some some investments there, to have always this positive growth on both sections.
New ones, sometimes, growing not as fast as expected or even faster than expected, and that's, that's a quite, let's say, a lottery, what, what will be the result. Looking at the old stations, it's always a stable growth, and, we, we watch out that all the investments made are paying off there, yeah.
Are there plans to increase the shareholders' discount per liter discounts in the foreseeable future?
We actually already increased this year slightly the discount. And we think that currently this offer for our shareholders is very competitive, because again, you can receive the discount not only on weekends, but also on each working day. On top of that, you can also have quite significant discounts in our convenience stores and products. Therefore, no, the answer is currently, we are not expecting to revise this.
Mm-hmm. Thank you. We talked about sustainability earlier in the presentation, and here comes a follow-up question: Do you track, and if yes, how, the sustainability of your partners in both convenience stores and fueling stations?
I'd say that's that's quite a struggle in the market, and not for us, but for everybody with the new regulations. This framework is still sculpting up, but it should come in the nearest future. Right now, in our sustainability team, that Jānis presented already before, we are working to understand what is the best fit and what is the best ratios to track on our suppliers. Right, right now, it's more of a case-by-case analysis. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. What are the plans in regards to opening new fuel stations?
Yeah, we are, I guess, already, indicated it, somewhat in, long-term strategy. We need to have around 90 stations by 2026. Currently, we have 72. Which means that around five to six stations per year, we will definitely, open. As I mentioned, the next year will be one of the most crucial ones because we have, long worked on several very strong projects, which we needed to have all the permits and so on. Finally, they are, ready, so next year will be quite, quite exciting, in this area at least.
Do you have plans to organize secondary public offering and increase free float of the shares in First North in the nearest future?
The short answer is, no, not, not in the nearest future. As right now we see the sufficient balance of the internal management financing and, and the external.
Mm.
Do you plan to offer electricity for households only in Latvia or also outside Latvia?
Honestly, obviously, the first milestone is Latvia market, which we will launch, as I mentioned, by end of September. Let me be honest, we have not currently thought about other foreign markets. Of course, we have some ambition within the team. I guess, the first homework is to become and implement our strategic goals in Latvian market. And then in, let's say, two to three years' time, we might think about some other markets as well.
Mm-hmm. Yesterday, you released an update for the long-term development plan. Can you summarize this and the expected reduced profitability in the short term?
Yeah, I can take this one maybe. Yes, if we compare, compare 2024 previous goals with current 2024 goals, there is some, some slight drop, very slight in EBITDA, and a bit more significant in net profit for 2024. The reason is obviously the fact that, I guess, two reasons. First reason is that, obviously, we have this inflation coming all around and putting pressure on wages, on interest rates, and so on, which is obviously making this market a bit tougher in terms of salaries and financing costs. The second reason, maybe even more important, is that we are actually accelerating our investing long-term investment plans in next couple of years, quite significantly.
Because in order to develop around 20 stations, it's a huge amount of investment needed. We see that obviously, initially, once you build those stations, there will be some time when they kind of kick off. There you obviously have some amortization costs in P&L, and therefore, there will be a bit, let's say, more time needed so that those stations are giving our profits and EBITDA as a number. Yes, that's what we can tell about that, but it does not, let's say, change the overall big goals for a longer term. We still want to become, and we will become number one in all the segments, a bit more patience needed then.
Mm. All right. Continuing, on the topic, on the same topic regarding the long-term development plan, how do you expect to finance the expansion of the network? Meaning, what do you see as the need for additional external financing compared to current situation?
It's quite short answer. Looking at this net debt to EBITDA ratio, we have a capacity, and we have a plan to finance it from the bank loans.
Thank you. The follow-up question regarding the financing, would you consider a bond issue or purely bank financing?
Yeah, we have discussed internally this topic actually quite extensively, some time ago. We have reached the conclusion that there are more advantages to bank financing than, than bond financing, especially obviously the interest rates and so on. Therefore, we are not planning to do bond issue in future.
All right. Thank you. We have answered all the questions. I would remind that the recording of the webinar will soon be available online, therefore, follow which announcement. Thank you for your time today.
Thank you.
Thank you.