Welcome to CICT's first quarter business updates. Today, we are kickstart with a quick overview of the first quarter performance by Tony, followed by our Q&A session. Please note that this meeting is recorded and will be shared on our website. Before we start, let me introduce our team today. We have Tony, our CEO, Mei Lian, our CFO, Jacqueline, our Head of Investment, Yi Zhuan, our Head of Portfolio Management, Mei Ping, our Head of Investor Relations, and also from the Investor Relations team we have Alison. I'll pass it over to Tony to share his presentation.
Hi. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for dialing in. Hopefully, it's a good Friday for everyone. We just announced our results, basically first quarter business update. I think you hopefully have a chance to take a look, but I'll give just a brief summary. Overall, first quarter came in pretty resilient. I think we have clocked in a nice healthy growth as a result of the activity that was done over the last few quarters, with revenue increasing by NPI increasing by 6.3%, and also clocked in a relative healthy rental reversion for both the retail and office as well. I think the office side came in fact, stronger than what we expected, and we hope that we can sustain the momentum. First quarter has been a little bit more active than what we have earlier perceived.
Hopefully, that momentum will continue, and we look forward to a good year this year. Of course, there's a little bit of cloud out there. This first half will be measured against last year's first half, which is a pretty strong first half. We hope we can sustain. Through the second half, naturally, there'll be a lot of potential uncertainty, given the overall macro environment. Again, measured against last year's second half, we already felt that things are slowing down. Hopefully this year we'll be able to deliver a reasonable kind of results, taking the context of what I mentioned earlier. This is just a brief overview. I think maybe we can just go straight to Q&A, and my colleagues here who can help as well to chip in.
Thanks, Tony. Before we start the Q&A, just some housekeeping rules. If you have any questions, please click on the raise hand button. When your name is called, please unmute yourself and switch on your video before asking your question. We would like to ask that you keep to two questions per turn, and we will circle back to you if you have more questions. You may also type in your questions from the chat function. As usual, can we have Marvin with the first question?
Yeah. Thanks for the call, and congrats on the very strong results. Maybe you can touch on the cost savings. Where is it coming from? Is it sustainable? I saw the NPI margins pick up close to two points versus 1Q 2023. The second question I have is in terms of CapitaGreen, the drop in vacancy, like who moved out and how much of the space has vacated, has been backfilled already? Thanks.
Perhaps I can pass to colleague, Yi Zhuan, give a little bit more color. Yeah.
Sorry. Give me a second. Okay. Sorry, for the operating expenses part, of course, we are doing a lot of, say, cost management in this quarter. Of course, there's also a bit of a kind of a treatments, reversals and some of that stuff. There's not going to be very major spending sustained it, right? Sorry. Yeah. We have a bit of a lower property management reinvestments from the new TMA also, coming in this quarter because from what we have signed last year. Lower utilities from lower electrical tariffs compared to the previous year, because last year first half we were actually on the higher side. This year actually we are taking in some of the lower tariff rates and also some of the lower consultancy expenses coming from the [inaudible] side.
CapitaGreen.
Sorry, what about? The lower
The drop in vacancy.
The drop in vacancy. Drop in occupancy. The drop in occupancy for CapitaGreen is actually transitionary in nature. We have a tenant that actually moved out, so we are actually backfilling that space. Yeah, this should happen. Its transitionary nature should be sorted out within the next half of the year or so.
Thank you. Sorry, how much of the space that, based on discussions, you can backfill already?
Sorry? How much can?
How much of the Yeah. Yeah. How long will it take? Is it by end of this year or what?
Oh, yeah. We are currently in talks with some tenants, prospective tenants. Yeah, the intention, hopefully we can backfill them within this year.
Okay. You should be expecting positive reversions for this vacated space?
Yes. We should be expecting positive reversion.
Yeah. Sorry, this cost savings should be maintained, right, throughout the course of the remainder of this year, given drop in electricity prices?
Yeah. Okay. Sorry, just to explain a little bit, right. Because the tariff rates last year for the first half, we are getting savings for it, but for the second half of the year for tariffs, probably it will be on similar rates, so there wouldn't be as much a savings from tariff alone in the second half of the year.
That's assuming the consumption
Yeah
The same.
The other one will be coming from consumption variations.
Okay, good. At least the first half of this year.
Yeah
Should be similar margins, but because of the savings you had for second half last year, you won't see a pickup again.
Yeah.
Okay. Thanks very much.
Thanks, Marvin. Can we have Yew Kiang next?
Hi. I just want to check. Can you give some updates on the decline in occupancy for CapitaGreen and also downtown tenant sales seems to be slowing down. Is that a surprise given all the high-profile concerts recently?
Okay. Maybe I will touch on the CapitaGreen one first. That one was really kind of expected because we know that there is actually an expiry. A bit of color is that actually then the tenant, we have a bit of movement in tenant, so that one there will be a bit of downtime. From there, we will then be able to backfill the space. We are talking to some of the prospects at this moment.
Can you share who is the tenant?
It's okay.
Okay. There's some movement
It's actually some movements for Rakuten previously because they were actually taking over Twitter space previously. In a way, Rakuten space, when they relocate, there's actually a very small consolidation of space, but it's probably like 5,000 sq ft there about.
Okay. Tenant sales for downtown malls and overall trend.
For tenant sales, if we are looking at it compared to your 20 year-on-year, it's a very marginal increase on a per sq ft basis. The one that is probably dropping is actually coming off from quarter-on-quarter. If you look at it on a year-on-year basis, actually it's a bit of an improvement. To give a bit of color on this, I would say that if we look at a quantum basis year-on-year, actually the increase for downtown is actually higher than suburban.
Okay. Because I recall that suburban has always been doing slightly better. No, downtown more has always been doing slightly better than suburban, but this quarter seems to be a reversal. Yeah.
A little bit of effect coming from some of the area. That's why actually I shared a bit on the quantum because actually it kind of is sometimes a bit, not often, but sometimes the trading area actually starts to affect this per square foot number. If we look at quantum basis, actually downtown, on a year-on-year basis, we saw about close to 5% upside.
Okay.
I don't know whether you go, I mean, usually we report efficiency, sales efficiency growth. That's a measurement against a square foot and a rent. That's one way to look at metrics. The other way to look at metrics is the absolute quantum. I think some of our peers report absolute quantum, some of our peers report on a per square foot. I think that's what Yi Zhuan's alluding to because some of the new tenants started trading on a larger area. On a per square foot basis may be lower, but actually absolute quantum is higher. In fact, absolute quantum outperformed the suburban growth. Close to 5%. Suburban is around about 1%. Yeah.
Okay.
And also
Go back to the queue.
On my opening remark, last year first half was a pretty strong first half. There was a bit of a rush. Downtown also got a little bit of kicker, more so than I would say it's open. People are all coming out. First half.
Okay.
Thanks, Yew Kiang. Can we have Brandon?
Hi. Morning to you and your team. Just one question on the impact of the higher interest rates. Obviously, the expected cuts could actually be sort of delayed. How does that shape your asset divestment and acquisition plans?
I think we met before. A couple of discussion. We are exploring, or we are in discussion. Whether it comes to any kind of deal, yet to be seen. Certainly, I think, that's one option that we have in mind. Not just looking at managing the interest cost per se, but more looking the capital structure, more representative of current capital cost environment. Yeah.
Basically, can I say that you don't see much changes from here in terms of timeline-wise and from a very broad standpoint?
Timeline in term of monetization?
Monetization and, I mean, just overall from a portfolio reconstitution standpoint.
Yeah, we hope we can do something this year. We'll see how the market. It's like what we mentioned last quarter, right? It's a bit of hot and cold, hot and cold. There's some interest, there are some building concern, people are looking at overall where directionally interest rate is moving, and the rate naturally has been very volatile and very turbulent. That's the underpinning kind of sentiment. Broadly, I think as a location, Singapore still do attract interest from capital to want to either anchor a position here or to enlarge their position here. We do have capital interest. Yeah. It's only in the wait-and-see, why rush in, right? A lot of people are taking that attitude. Yeah.
Okay. All right. Hey, thanks. That's all from me. Thank you.
Thanks, Brandon. Can I have Rachel?
Hey. Hi. Good morning, Tony and team. Thanks for the call. A lot of my questions have been answered, but maybe just to follow up, in terms of the tenant sales, have you included Clarke Quay this quarter or still not yet?
Yes. This quarter it's been included.
Oh, okay.
Just
Go ahead.
Just started this. Last year, remember we officially finished Clarke Quay, it was around mid-November, late November. Last year we had only a month of so-called transitioning, opening into opening. In fact, not even opening, because a lot of tenants were still doing fit-out, right?
First quarter, we have taken the number in.
Okay. Has they trade back to normal levels already?
No, too early. Yeah. I mean, some of them are trading reasonably okay. Some tenant that stays open, will in fact been quite resilient. It's not evenly spread, given the different pockets of area that has been under AEI and at different stage of opening. Like for example, the more recent new happening opening, the NTUC came quite late, only in the late, I think in December last year. We have Ministry of Crab just opened a few weeks ago. At [inaudible], we are adding more new tenants coming in now. Yeah. In fact, we're going to have our official launch in a week or so. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, thanks. Just on office, I think you mentioned that it came in stronger than expected. Reversions was very strong. Just wondering where's the interest coming from? Is it movements from just CBD or is it new companies coming into Singapore? Just more colors on that.
Yeah. Tony, you want to?
For office, we do see actually a mix of Firstly, we have very good reversions coming from some of our renewals as well as expansions. We have a couple of new relocations from buildings in the surrounding to Six Battery Road, as well as a couple of new setups in one of our properties. It's quite spread across the different type of factors, how we get the reversion numbers.
Got it. Also your average cost of debt, are you going to change your expectations for this year, given there's a delay in interest rate cuts?
Which meaning, I beg your pardon?
Yeah. With this delay in interest rate cuts, I think we are looking at the average cost of debt to inch up to mid to probably coming into high 3%, given the impact of.
Sorry, I didn't catch that. It was what? Mid threes to four?
Mid to.
Sorry, I didn't catch that.
Sorry, it's mid three to high three.
Okay. Thank you. Mid three to high three. Right. Thanks. Just one last quick question. I think previously there was news on Bukit Panjang being put up for sale. Just wondering whether there's any progress. Is it progressing closer to closing the deal or the interest have sort of, like you say, start, stop, start, stop?
It's still at exploratory stage. In discussion. Yes.
Okay. Thanks, Tony.
Thank you.
Thanks, Rachel. Jonathan, you're next.
Good morning and appreciate the healthy growth in the results. Two questions. First question is a bit similar to this comparison between suburban and downtown. Relating to rent reversion, tourists are coming back, we would expect stronger positive reversion for downtown, but you are quite evenly spread, both downtown and suburban is positive 7%. Should we read that as your relatively stronger positioning in suburban? Second question is your distribution reinvestment plan, 59.8 million new units issued. Could we get the acceptance rate for your DRP? If you could remind us, how much do you offer in terms of discount to the market price for your DRP? Thank you.
For reversions, I would say that it's quite a few factors affecting reversion. It can be market dynamics, your demand, supply, and also our business consumer sentiments. By and large, if we look at, I would say that actually not so much just in suburban. It's just that for downtown site, actually if you look at OpEx, the downtown OpEx is slightly higher at this point also. Definitely it's really dependent on some of the tendencies that government could bring in. Our reversions for the mall should be positive for both sectors, both urban and downtown. I won't say it's particularly stronger positioning in the suburban.
Suburban does have its own resilience, having said that, looking forward, whether or not some of these outflow, high cost, all these may affect a little bit, definitely the demand from tenants in the suburban is quite strong and is still quite strong at this point. Whereas for the downtown mall, the kind of interest that we are getting is slightly different, where we have some of the new demands coming from that. For example, interest coming from your new setups from overseas, like China banks and everything coming through.
Going forward, you expect maybe still quite even between the two?
It should be relatively quite even, plus minus a bit, for this year at least.
I think that should be in this all depends on also outgoing that we are measured against. There will be a kind of a fluctuation in between when we measure, it's always against outgoing. It all depends on where the outgoing we are looking at different quarters. It may have a little bit of fluctuation. I think broadly, I just want to supplement what Yi Zhuan is saying. Directionally, we can see some of the things happening. You can see a little bit of outflow of people are traveling a lot more. Naturally, it will also have a little bit more tourists coming in, given that the travel has sort of resumed, right? The travel intensity, and we're seeing a healthy pickup in Chinese tourists coming from actually from February onward.
That's a broad trend. That will shape the way how we look at suburban downtown. Suburban, we naturally need to think, in the longer term, how we could look at the kind of offering that We are still observing the inbound, outbound kind of a trend. Definitely got to think about how we want to reshape the kind of offering we have, both in the suburban downtown, in the mid to longer term. That's something we are observing quite closely now.
Yeah. I understand. On the DRP?
The DRP, the take-up rate is about 32%. Our sponsor had also taken, yeah. The DRP was priced at 2% discount.
Got it. Thank you, management team. Thank you, Tony and management team. Thank you.
No worries.
Thanks, Jonathan. Xuan, you can ask your question.
Hi. Morning. My first question is on Gallileo. Can you share a bit more about reversion, timing of contribution? Is the reversion included in this quarter's office reversion number?
In terms of income, we are expecting the income to start to come in in the second half progressively. First quarter go to five, six, actually. Yeah. For reversions, actually, I think previously we've kind of shared that it's possibly in double digits now.
It's not included. It's not included.
It's not.
Yeah. It's not included this number.
It's not in this current. Yeah.
Yeah, Xuan, just to recap, don't forget, Gallileo, we are doing the 18 months AEI.
Yeah.
We're talking about this one more in the later part of next year, 2025.
Okay. When would the reversion number be included?
Usually we won't capture this reversion numbers.
The revenue reversion that we are sharing is for Singapore portfolio only.
Oh, okay. Gotcha.
This one got better sensitivity, because it's a large tenant. I can only tell you it's the double digit. Can't tell you too much.
Okay. Got it. Second question is on AEIs, right? Like for Clarke Quay and Gallileo, can you share if the ROI is positive? Also beyond IMM, are you still reviewing other AEIs?
Definitely, we are still reviewing other AEIs, and of different scale. Some of these, hopefully it can come through in the next year or so for some of the AEIs. In terms of ROI, those are positive ROI for the current AEIs. Definitely, besides IMM, we would also look across, not specific to suburban or downtown. Across our malls, we are looking at opportunities for us to try and do something better.
In terms of scale, anything you can share there?
It is really ranging quite varied. Usually I would say that the one that probably takes larger scale is also those that take a much longer time for us to work out and also get the support of other stakeholders.
Okay, got it. That's all from me. Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you. Next, can I have Vijay? Vijay, would you like to ask your question?
Vijay, you're muted.
Hi. Sorry, can you hear me now?
Yes.
All right. Okay. I have a couple of questions, but my first question is in terms of MAC. There was an occupancy drop risk, but maybe can you explain a bit from which tenant is this coming from? Overall, from a Germany market, has this market stabilized at this point of time? Do you see more risk downside?
Okay. Maybe I clarify a little bit is that for Germany, actually, this quarter's result, the 92.1% actually is partly also due to Gallileo being taken out. For Germany, we have only two assets. While the 92.1% reflects MAC, right? On the asset level, actually, MAC saw a slight improvement in occupancy. As for how the thing is, I would say that currently the Germany, it is still pretty quiet in terms of I think the demand is also not very reactive. If we look at the whole Frankfurt market generally as a whole, in fact, actually a large part of the transactions on leasing front is actually tends to Gallileo that kind of move the market.
If let's say we look at just the first quarter alone, if you take out Gallileo, the next biggest size in Frankfurt is around 5,000 sq m. That kind of shows that the demand is not exactly very strong at this point. Definitely in terms of leasing, there is a bit of challenge there too, and definitely we will try to retain and if not, try to backfill as quickly as we can for MAC. I would say that for this year, probably it will be quite sluggish. We won't expect it to suddenly go very strong. Yeah.
Okay. My second question
The economy there is still very at best it is like 1.1% growth. Economic situation is not strong in Germany, let's put it this way. company are cautious.
Yeah. Understand. Thanks. My second question is in terms of hotel segment performance. Can you give some color in terms of first quarter? How was it compared to that of the last quarter and previous year?
Yeah. Say that one. Hotel?
Yeah.
Just give us a second.
Hotel is stronger. It's still strong.
Yes.
I would say sustainable.
Right. I think occupancy for hotel is actually coming up pretty strongly, and it's been holding up quite well. In fact, actually, we expect this to probably continue to see a bit of strong performance in the coming quarters also, especially with some of the tourism numbers coming up strong quite well this in the first quarter of the year.
It's actually, I would say the occupancy has gone back to, in fact, around when it was the first open up, so first quarter 2021. No, sorry. That was under the Still unknown, not correct. In fact, it has gone higher than the pre-COVID in first quarter 2019. Compared to fourth quarter last year, occupancy also has gone up by about seven percent point. I think it could be the concert effect. February, March, pretty strong, high, mid-80s. Mid, I would say around 80s. Yeah, I think it continues to deliver the hotel side.
Okay. It would be right to say that you have a healthy jump in RevPAR and variable rents compared to last year and last quarter?
Yeah. RevPAR is good.
Okay. My last question, in terms of divestments, how should we look at it? Are you actively trying to divest, put assets in the market? Are you, in a way, waiting for reverse inquiries to come for any assets to potentially look at divestments in the market?
We have already reverse inquiry. All this inquiry led to more discussion. It's a question of whether the conviction is strong enough to move forward, right? That's where I alluded earlier. Sometimes they just want to watch what happened to the rates. There's a little bit of a wait and see kind of attitude at this point in time.
Okay. Now if I have to look at it, would you say that you would look for at least 10% premium to current valuation before you think about divestments as the price that needs to be coming? Is that how you look at it from a price benchmark perspective, and you think at this point of time, that is not able to be met from the market offers and bids?
I wouldn't want to comment on 10%, 5%, 15%, 20%. I think it's a discussion point, what exactly they're looking at, what are the thing that they think there may be matters that we need to address. It all depends on the kind of detailed discussion. Yeah. It's above book, obviously. We are looking at above book. That's the only thing I can say. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. That's all I have.
Thank you, VJ. Do we have any other questions? Jonathan, your hand is still up. Marvin, do you have any last questions?
Yeah. I got a few questions. WeWork with the press that concluded negotiations with their various landlords. Is there any updates for 21 Collyer Quay? That's my first question. On the office side, over the next few quarters, is there any upcoming vacancies that we should be aware of that's in similar magnitude to CapitaGreen? The question I have is in terms of associate contributions, is it the same degree of NPI increase that we've seen for first quarter? Thanks.
I will take the first two first. For WeWork, 21CQ, as WeWork recently shared in their release, they have actually concluded all the negotiations. In our active discussions with the tenant, they have actually always assured us that they are serious about staying here and operating here, and in our pool assets, the locations that they operate in. For 21CQ, they have been current on rent, and we expect that to continue going forward. On the second question is pertaining to office expiries. I would say that there wouldn't.
Sorry, this side.
For office expiries, I think there's a few tenants that may be coming up, for example, renewals. For instance, we are in negotiation for WeWork and all these things. So far the whole rest has been good, there shouldn't be any big movements or shocks in the near term. Having said that, I have to do have a qualify in a sense that we do expect, as we previously shared in the last quarter results. I kind of alluded that, in the first quarter and the second quarter, we do expect a bit of a volatility in the vacancy rates for our properties as we go through some of these renewals and replacements.
There are inquiries in those ways that potential tenants that may be vacating, where there's already discussion ongoing.
Do we expect further slippage in office occupancy in the second quarter, or you think it has maintained around current levels?
We think that we should be able to maintain plus minus our office occupancy. There shouldn't be a huge drop per se. Yeah.
The thing is transitioning, whether we sign or eventually we sign on. It's the timing, whether you can sign before 30th of June to capture that.
Sure.
The operational issue that we have to deal with. Yeah. Potentially may miss it. Potentially one or two building may slip. If we sign later than 30th June, then it'll be captured in the quarter.
Sure. Sorry, back on the WeWork, the rents are current, they're staying. Have there been any negotiations of the rents they're paying or returning any floors? Yeah.
No, there isn't any changes. No change.
No change to current lease terms at all? Right. Okay, excellent. My follow-up question, in terms of the associate contribution, are we seeing at least similar growth rates to your NPI, around 6%? Is it plus higher or lower? Yeah. Thanks.
You're referring to CapitaSpring. In terms of Sorry.
CapitaSpring in Australia. Yeah.
Only CapitaSpring.
Only CapitaSpring associates.
Sorry. Yeah, CapitaSpring.
There's a slight increase in expense mainly because the DLP period is expired.
Sorry, you were cutting out. Do you mind repeating it again for CapitaSpring?
There's a slight increase in property expense for CapitaSpring due to the expiry of the DLP last year. Compared to, for first Q, year-on-year, there's a slight increase in expense and leading to a slight reduction in NPI.
In terms of cash flow that's coming back to CICT, it should be still up, right?
Should be up.
Yeah
Yeah, should be.
Exactly.
Should be.
For CapitaSpring, we're only getting back.
Yeah.
Depending if they distribute, how much they distribute from the sub-trust, then that's where it will contribute to CICT. Yeah.
It should be up year-on-year, I presume, given last year was still.
Yeah, there's also higher interest expense year-on-year. We can't really say that for now. Yeah.
There should be still a big difference between actual NPI and cash flows, right? Given that there's some straight-lining impact.
Most of the straight-lining has actually run off already, so it should be fairly consistent with the NPI in terms of cash distribution. this is subject interest expense as well.
Okay. NPI slight increase, some interest headwinds. Yeah. Okay.
NPI slight decrease.
Decrease. Okay.
Okay, thanks very much.
Thanks, Marvin. Rachel, you have another question?
Yes. I have some follow-up questions. I think back to the tenant sales. I think first quarter we had a lot of events in Singapore. It doesn't seem to be flowing into the numbers. Is that because there's been change in the tourist spending habits in Singapore that's coming through? Do you expect to see some softening to this spend?
My sensing will be that, of course, in some other sessions I kind of share a little bit is that the Taylor Swift concert event, I know it's quite talked about. The reality is that we don't expect it to be a one-off event to kind of really change a lot of the numbers. If we look at it, even the average stay of the visitorship, in the first quarter even though we had all these concerts and whatnot, if we compare on last year, actually, the average stay is actually lower than last year. Although, having said that, the positive side is that the average stay is actually longer than pre-COVID days now. In a way, it shows that a lot of the so-called concert goers, they may just come pretty much for the event, and then after that, they go back.
It's in a way understandable, given that if you look at how much the hotel rates have actually moved. I don't think it is quite wise to stay too long also. There is one part that we say that in the long term, there will be benefits to tourism attraction. One-off in where it actually skews the number in tenant sales may not be as pronounced. Second part will then be that, of course, then the other mitigating thing that kind of hold back some of these tenant sales is also, of course, GST increases, and then their cost actually is quite high.
We are getting actually increasing comments that we hear from people saying that, "Oh, actually shopping in Singapore is actually quite expensive compared to a lot of places that people go to." I'm quite sure a lot of us have probably traveled to Japan, Korea, Australia. Even surprisingly Australia, if you buy things, actually Australia can even be cheaper than Singapore, which I was also not expecting that. It kind of shows that this may shape a lot of shoppers' behavior and how they want to spend. Of course, definitely food is still one place that they do have to spend here. This is something that we will have to monitor to see how it goes and it shapes. It will kind of skew how we actually open in the longer term, how we actually plan out some of the ways we go out, trade mix. Yeah.
Okay. Thanks for the color. On office, I just wanted to follow up, because I think you mentioned that the demand was actually from some relocation from other offices. Wondering what's your signing rents for first quarter and what are the reasons? Last year you were saying that tenants prefer to stay on because of the high rents, high moving costs. What has led to the movement?
Okay. Maybe I provide a little bit more explanation on that. We have saw some relocation. Some of these relocations that we see from other buildings coming to ours, at least I only can speak for our portfolio, are actually people coming for qualitative reasons. For example, they come to our asset because better view, better quality of space. One of them actually came from another building, which it's a little bit older and it's actually undergoing some refurbishment works, planning to do some refurbishment work. There's a little bit of disruptions to their business, then they rather kind of move. I think the considerations that we shared previously about being a high-cost environment, a lot of tenants are still sitting on the fence and weighing their options on whether to incur that cost.
I think there's still a bit of resistance to incur the extra cost to actually move. We still see that inertia. Definitely if the asset still works for them, the property still works for them, unless they get a very good discount, which is quite unlikely in the flight to quality and limited supply situation. Unlikely people would want to move as a first option. That one I don't think is totally gone yet. In terms of signing rents that we have seen based on just now what I kind of shared, some of this relocation, I will say that the rents are actually quite comparable to what we are securing for the rents for those properties. It's actually quite in line with it.
Okay. Still above SGD 12?
Yeah, it depends on property, but for the ones that came over, it's actually above SGD 12.
Okay. Got it. Yeah. Just one last quick question. I think we saw the Keppel student accommodation portfolio has been sold. Just wondering if there's any thoughts about potentially looking at Paragon soon.
Oh, this one. Yep. That student portfolio, I can't comment. That means it's other parties. I can't really comment on that.
Okay. No worries then. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks.
I want just to give a little bit of colors pertaining to how that trend of coming here for concert and maybe what you see on the ground, what the trades may have benefited. It pretty mixed. I think F&B, pastries is one notable. A little bit of beauty and health, skin care. Those are sector, and beauty services maybe not so visible, but the numbers are showing up. The one that did not really pick up strongly is the entertainment part. Perhaps when they are here, they are already having fun. Not sure. I don't know whether that translate to a bigger presence in the nightclubs. Maybe after only a smaller group. Let's say we use our club case example.
Some were obviously post or pre-concert people. They dress up, and they will have the clutch here. I would say they come in waves. Not that kind of phenomena. Yeah. It's a mixed bag. I think we are watching also. Like I say, we may have to rethink about how we want to calibrate in terms of the offerings. Yeah.
Okay. Thanks so much, Tony.
Thank you. Xuan?
Yeah. Hi. Can I just follow up on the office rent reversion? I think previously you were guiding for mid-single digit this year, but now you have already renewed half of this year's lease expiry at 14. How are you thinking about full year rent reversion for office, and is there any tenants or assets that you are incrementally more worried about, if any?
Thanks for your question because, I think previously one of the guidance that we provided was that if we had to forward guess and estimate how we see the year-end reversions, mid-single. With a stronger first quarter and a lot of the bigger deals being done like this, we do think that at this point, looking forward, we probably can expect the year-end around high singles.
All right. Thank you. That's very helpful. Any change to retail then? It was also previously mid-single digit.
Yes. For retail, we also feel that it should be going into the high singles. We do expect it to go into high singles.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you, Xuan. Marvin?
Just on the office market. Previously, Marina One was quite competitive in terms of offering incentives. Has this died down, which maybe contributed to very strong rental reversions you delivered this quarter? The shadow space competition, has that died down as well? Thanks.
For shadow space, actually, it has been compared quarter-on-quarter. Actually, shadow space has been quite stable and quite low. I think it's around 200,000 sq ft, there about. It kind of peaked a bit, like first quarter last year, right? It steadily came down. Actually, I think it has been quite stable. The good thing also is that so far the landlords generally are quite consistent in their view that with a tight supply market, at least for the good quality space, there's no real need for people to drop rents.
When you look at the kind of rents that even a tenant have to relocate and they're factoring relocation costs, right? Renewing at around similar or even higher rents compared to outgoings is something that tenants are a little bit quite open to. I think that part helps in terms of some of these stronger reversions as we see for some of our renewals now.
We heard Marina One was giving incentives for relocation. Based on your news on the ground, have they stopped that activity?
Nothing came strongly on Marina One.
Marina is more the shadow one.
Correct.
The other shadow is gone.
pretty much not that big of a concern now at this point. I think going forward, if anything, I would be more concerned about will be more the secondary stock that comes from eventually when tenants actually relocate and take up their spaces, say for example, at IOI, right? Then the secondary stock that they left behind, right? Whether or not the landlords in those buildings will actually be competitive in their rents to try and backfill those space.
Yeah, that's more 2025.
Yeah, that one will maybe more later this year.
Yeah.
That one will be the one that I will be more concerned about compared to I think shadow space risk is quite under control, actually.
Yeah. I think Suntec Tower has got some shadow space. The bigger one is the Suntec Tower.
Yeah.
How are you thinking about dynamics in terms of OCBC redeveloping their HQ? Do you see them taking up space at other buildings, or how do you think they approach you in terms of taking up office space, yeah?
They have not approached us per se. Definitely I would say that there's an opportunity for us. There may be some other tenants who are very happy and comfortable with this location. They would want to actually look for a space within that vicinity. In fact, if anything, I would say in the longer term, it's actually good for us because we have quite a few office buildings in the Raffles Place CBD area, right? This will actually help to rejuvenate a little bit more, continue the refresh of the Raffles Place area to make it attractive city, part of the CBD. Yeah.
I think it will be those older stock will be taken up. That's the effect. Existing tenant will start to think about where they want to go. I think there's an opportunity for us to look at it. Not this year. More like 2026, 2025, 2026. That one
It won't happen so soon because that one, at this point, they're only starting. They haven't really gotten everything they really like to go. That one will take a while. Yeah.
Can we touch on the Australian or at least Sydney office market? The rents are starting to turn around off a low base, of course. Are the tenants becoming a bit more formal, which may mean perhaps you can include your occupancy in your buildings?
I would say for Australia occupancy rate, it is still a quite challenging market in terms of getting tenants at this point, especially for the North Sydney area. I think we've done okay to backfill some of the expiries. The question is that going forward, how much more we can push in this current market now. It's a quite fine balance. We are talking to prospects, but we are also quite trying to manage some of the reality on the ground is that currently, it's actually quite a tenant's market.
There's actually quite a lot of options and some of the landlords in the, like cost, even in the Sydney CBD itself and the Western corridor, some of the landlords are a little bit aggressive on incentives. It's trying to see how we can actually position ourselves properly. In terms of office occupancy, definitely we should try to be defensive and hold this level of occupancy, if not trying to improve it slightly above in the next coming quarters.
Sure. Just a final question from me. You may have missed it earlier, the DRP, should we be assuming this continues for first half DPU and full year? Or is it subject to asset sales?
I think we will take it one step at a time. Depends on whether also whether we want to have any kind of other AEI. I think we will be careful. Yeah.
Okay, excellent. Look forward to the high single-digit rental reversions hopefully a high share price.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We all need that.
Thank you, Marvin. Any other questions? Okay. If not, thank you everyone for the questions. As we conclude today's briefing, thank you all for your time.
Thanks a lot.
Yeah. CICT has delivered a resilient first quarter, and we will continue to drive our portfolio through our portfolio management and valuation strategies. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team. Thank you, and happy Friday.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.