Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Bravida Q2 Report 2017. Today, I'm pleased to present CEO, Mattias Johansson, and CFO, Nils- Johan Andersson. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in a listen-only mode, and afterwards, there will be a question and answer session. I'm now pleased to hand you over to Mattias. Please begin.
Thank you very much, good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Bravida's Q2 report. As usual, it's myself, Mattias Johansson, and CFO Nils-Johan Andersson, who will present this report. Turning to slide 2, we have just closed. Oh, sorry, 3. We have just closed another solid quarter, well in line with our own targets. We are growing 14%, 6% organic in the first 6 months. We have improved our underlying margin, cash conversion at 104%. We have lowered our own net debt. We continue to do M&A and have still a strong pipeline. Before we go more into the specific quarter, I just want to remind you about our risk profile in Bravida, as you can see on this slide.
We have diversified end markets, we have low customer concentration, small average contract size. As you know, by this, two-thirds of our sales is service, renovation, and redevelopment, and only one-third is new build. Low risk, as I see it, in our own profile. I'm happy to see that our strategy is working, and we will continue to stick to it. Next Slide 4, you can see the highlights for the quarter. The net sales grew 14% to SEK 4 billion, 325 million. Organic growth in the quarter at 0, M&A, plus 12%. We have an estimated negative calendar effect, around 6% due to Easter. We have organic growth in Sweden and Denmark, despite fewer working days.
It's good to see that it's not only installation that is growing in this good market condition. We also can see that the service sales growth was 8%. Our order backlog is, again, at record high level, SEK 10.5 billion, up 32%. We have continued strong momentum with order intake, plus 9%, this close to SEK 5 billion in the quarter. We're also going to see strong order intake in Denmark. Our adjusted EBIT is up to SEK 261 million, and margin is unchanged, is at 6%. If we calculate the dilution by Oras, which is 30 basis points, the underlying EBIT margin increased to 6.3%, which is a strong evidence that our strategy is working.
Specific cost in the quarter is SEK 8 million, related to the same acquisition, Oras. Cash flow is SEK 150 million in the quarter, compared to SEK 57 million last year. Working capital is -6.2% of sales. Net debt is down at 2.2x adjusted EBITDA. Two acquisitions completed in the quarter, JFE in Denmark and Oras in Norway, adding around SEK 1.3 million in annual sales. Slide 5, about the markets. We still have a strong market in Sweden. Building construction activity is strong. We can see good order backlogs in the construction companies. In Norway, we have increasing residential construction starts and a stable market for offices. We can see improved activity for public buildings, where that will balance the decline for commercial buildings.
In Denmark, the market is supported by public investment and residential construction. Investments in healthcare, infrastructure, residential construction, driving volumes as well. In Finland, the market is improving, albeit from low, low level, is the same as earlier. My own picture of the market, is that the market is strong. I can say that I've been in more tendering meetings in Q2 than I was in Q1, the demand is at least at the same level as earlier and probably higher. On the next Slide 6, you can see that the sales is up 14% in the quarter. We have organic growth in Sweden and Denmark, if we exclude for Finland, we, as you know, we always think that margin is more important than volume. This has been, especially been the case in Finland in the last year.
If we exclude for the lower sales in Finland, we have around 1.5% organic growth in the quarter, despite the Easter, which is, as I see it, quite strong. Year to date, sales is up to 17%, and about the margin, we have an unchanged margin in the quarter, despite dilution for Oras, from Oras by 30 bps, meaning that the underlying margin is improved to 6.3% from 6%. In the quarter, sales is up 14% and adjusted EBIT plus 15%. Year to date, EBITDA is increased from SEK 401 million to SEK 469 million. On slide seven, you can see that we will have a good support for the future growth as well. The order intake in the quarter is up 9%.
Year to date is plus 18%, and the order backlog is plus 32%. As you know, in the order backlog, we only have installation, and it does not include all the service orders that we produce, and that's around 50% of our. Margin, I just mentioned that margin is always more important than volume. On the next slide, you can see that our underlying EBIT margin has increased during the quarter. Last year, we reported a margin of 5.8%. We know that Oras, dilution from Oras is 30 bps.
If we add the dilution from Finland into this, it's another 20 bps, then we have special costs in the quarter as well at 20 bps, which take us actually to 6.5% in underlying margin in the quarter, if it was adjusted for Finland. This makes me confident that our action is working. We are growing in a profitable and controlled way. Next slide 9. This is the slide that illustrates the gap between the order backlog and the installation phase. As you can see, the gap has increased. Approximately SEK 800 million or SEK 875 million comes from the acquisition, Oras. Also without this additional order backlog, we continue to increase the order backlog compared to the LTM sales. The organic growth in the order backlog is around 18%.
Positive is, of course, also that the service sales has a stable growth as well. Now, we need your 1% financial performance review. Thank you.
Thank you, Mattias. Starting on page 10, starting going a little bit deeper into the figures. If, as Mattias mentioned, we had a good growth in the quarter, the growth was 14%. 2% came from currency, and acquisition contributed with 12% this quarter. Of course, Oras is a large part of this, but even if we adjust for Oras, they contributed with roughly SEK 200 million in the quarter. M&A contributed with close to 7%. Organic growth was flat this quarter, explained by a few working days, and we calculate that they have an impact of 5%-6% in the quarter.
This is the same figure we had in Q1, but it was the other way around, of course. If you look for earning per share, it's growing faster than the operating profit. This is mainly explained by improved financial net. This quarter increased with 14%. We go for next slide 11, and start to talk about Sweden. Sweden had a good growth of 7% in the quarter. It's a combination of organic growth and acquisition. If you look at the margin, we report margin in Sweden for 6.5%, compared to 6.6% last year.
If we also go back and talk about what we report in Q1, we had a weak EBITDA margin in Q1, 4.7%, compared to the year before, 5.4%. The explanation was that we had a couple of larger projects that was in an early stage. Now, of course, we, you know, we are in most cases conservative on the profit, and now we are for three months more into this project, and now we can start to release some more money from this project. What I'd also like to give some comments about the new division that is established since a couple of months ago in Sweden, Division National. We have now the organization in place, and, you know, this division is including security, cooling, technical facility management, power and sprinkler.
The target is to increase the focus and also develop the growth opportunities. Let us come back to this and talk more about the new division in the coming quarter report when we have run this a little bit longer time. Let's continue with Norway, Page 12. Norway reported excellent growth of 39% in the quarter. Of course, main explanation is Oras, but we see all this, we have also a positive currency impact for 4% in the quarter. Norway, in Norway, we have the biggest impact from the Eastern holiday, and the biggest impact from fewer working days. If you look for the organic growth in Norway, it was a small minus. But on the other hand, again, of course, they have an excellent growth in Q1.
Looking to the order backlog, the increase in Norway, the order backlog was 68%, up to SEK 2,000,000,724. Oras contributed to SEK 875 million. Excluding Oras, there was a good growth of 14% in the quarter. Continue with EBITDA and EBITDA margin. Reported figure is down from 6.3 to 5.4. The dilution from Oras is, if we adjust for this, the actually, the underlying margin increased from 6.3 to 6.4. Oras had more or less a break-even result in Q2. Few words about Oras as well. The integration follow our plan.
The assumption we had before the acquisition that the underlying business is stable and there is a good potential for cost saving, has been confirmed. We expect to, of course, to the coming quarter, there will be quite limited contribution on the EBITDA. We built a good platform for next year by working hard to generate this cost synergies, if you call on that. Next slide, we continue with Denmark. Denmark continued to improve their position. Sales is up 13%, and it is also a combination of organic growth and acquisition. EBITDA, EBIT improved 40%. Last year, we had a tough first 6 months in Denmark, where we had some challenges in the region infrastructure.
Of course, we will not see the same development on EBITDA for the second part of this year. We expect to continue more normalized growth in the profit. Next slide, in Finland. Here, we also continue to improve our performance. This quarter, we reported a SEK 3 million EBIT result. Compared last year, there was a break even. The acquisition we finalized in December of the Asentaja Group, also contributing both to growth and profitability. For us, still, the top priority is to implement what we call Bravida Way, that margin is more important than volume. Of course, it has had an impact on the net sales and order backlog coming down. We are working hard to increase the quality in the business.
Just to comment on about the market, of course, the market is also improving. We see steadily growth in the order backlog on the construction company. The comments we have from the market is also positive. We are looking forward for Finland's development for the coming quarters. Next slide, just sum up the acquisition. We, in the quarter, we have done 2 M&A, one in Denmark, adding SEK 130 million. Of course, Oras, we have talked about SEK 1.2 billion, consolidated Oras from the 8th of May. Regarding the pipeline and the multiple, you can say nothing have really changed. We continue to have a couple of good discussions going on here and now.
If you look at the price, the multiples, it's still on the same level as we have seen the last one to two years, still opportunities here. Of course, if we have, with this strong cash flow we have had, we have strength on the balance sheet, and this give us even more opportunities. Let's looking to the next slide, I will talk about net debt and cash flow. If you start with the bottom about the operating cash flow, as you remember, we had an excellent cash flow in Q1. Also, now in Q2, we have a much stronger cash flow compared to last year. We reported our operating cash flow for SEK 150, compared to SEK 57 last year.
If you look for the first six months, we have had a cash flow of SEK 531 compared to SEK 70. This have taken down the net debt now to SEK 2.343 billion. Please remember that in Q2, we also paid dividend SEK 252 million, and we also paid for Oras acquisition SEK 129 million. We are down net debt to EBITDA 2.2 times and a cash conversion of 104%. If you look for the next slide and slide page 17, we have the financial targets. We are committed to grow the business with 10%, with 5% coming from organic growth and 5%-7% from M&A. We are saying that we would like to take the margin about 7%.
Cash conversion, the target is to have about 100. We should pay out at least 50%. The net debt, we should be around 2.5, net debt to EBITDA. This is my last slide, and Mattias, summary.
Thank you, Johan. Yeah, to summarize this quarter, this is a summary for the first six months in many, many ways. We can still see a stable, good market. The sales, the first six months has increased to 17%, organic growth has been 6%. The installation order backlog grew 32% in the quarter, continued good service business momentum will support organic growth in the coming quarters as well. The underlying EBIT margin, diluted by Oras, improvement of 0.1 percentage point to 5.7% in January to June, 0.3 percentage points in the second quarter to 6.3%.
M&A execution is, as Johan said, on track with a healthy pipeline, SEK 1.3 billion added in the space during the first six months, and a really strong cash flow in Q2, as well as Q1, strengthen the balance sheet. Cash conversion at 104%, net debt adjusted EBITDA at 2.2 times. A really strong quarter, and we are happy to see again that the strategy we are having is working. We can see a strong market, and we think we are performing quite well. As we said, in terms of we, that we should be proud, but not satisfied, as we usually say. Yeah, let's see how we can continue to develop the business and Bravida the coming quarters well.
The demand in the market is definitely there. Thank you very much. I think we can open up for some questions.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do have a question for the speakers, please press zero-one on your telephone keypad, and you will enter the queue. After you are announced, please ask your question. Our first question comes from the line of Sylvia Barker from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Hi, good afternoon. Two questions from me, please. Firstly, on organic growth, it seems like it is running around kind of 6% adjusted. You know, is that where you've seen it, continuing to the first few weeks of Q3 as well? Secondly, just to clarify around the margin in Sweden, that's obviously improved sequentially quite a lot. Is that just a case of the project that you were starting in Q1, and that was kind of limited to Q1, and that's now finished, I mean, your order book is still quite strong, presumably, you know, that margin might be a little bit weaker again, and it can be quite volatile, or is there something else at play?
Finally, on acquisitions, if you could just kind of mention whether there's anything in particular, kind of, that you're looking at, any particular regions, I'm guessing Sweden and Denmark, probably. Thank you.
Okay, thank you, Sylvia. I'm starting with the organic growth question. As you know, or, Yeah, I just want to remind you that in July is not a very busy month in Sweden, so it's hard to say anything about the organic growth in the Q3. I think the growth at 6% the first half year is actually a good figure of what we level we are performing. For the moment, we have a strong support in the backlog, and we don't see any dramatic changes in the future. Of course, again, it can be some variations from one quarter to another. If we look from a longer period, I think we have a solid support for growth in the coming quarters as well.
Regarding M&As, as Nils-Johan said, we have some discussions going on, and it's nothing we want to comment any deeper about, more than it's, of course, not Norway. We are focusing very much for the moment because they have a handful of integrating Oras. It's, of course, the other markets we are trying to do the next acquisition. Regarding the switch margin, I think Nils-Johan want to expand on that.
Yes, I think you we had, as we said, after Q1, that we were in, if we have to go back a couple of To more or less the same period last year, as we are in Q2 and Q3, that we had, we protect our margins, and we are mainly Stockholm, and then we, of course, we were waiting for. The price competition was quite hard. We start to build up the backlog, mainly Stockholm, during the second part of last year. We start the production on these orders in the end of last year and beginning of this. Normally, we are quite conservative in taking profit at an early stage.
I think the normally the, I think what we saw in Sweden, that's not the normal case because Sweden is quite a stable market. Yeah, I think this, we should have a quite stable market margin development in Sweden.
Okay, thank you. Just to follow up on the organic growth, the demand is not that much, I guess, in July is a fair point. Just in terms of the shortages, the labor shortages, are you seeing any potential kind of, you know, increased pressure going forward? Maybe you've benefited a little bit from hiring kind of people from Caverion, perhaps. Is that gonna be more of a concern in H2 and into 2018? Thank you.
I think, regarding the bottleneck in resources, I think we have seen that, for a couple of years, and I usually said it had been a problem since I started in this industry, since 98. We have a high focus on it, of course. We are, have some different way of, solving that challenge, but what we can see is still, the same as we have seen earlier, that we have a positive net flow to Bravida, and I think we are one of the few of the large players in the, in market that is actually performing in a good way. Of course, we have strong brand. We are delivering in all different ways.
We have a lot of interesting service business and installation business that people actually want to be part of. We, we see us, Bravida, as a very attractive place to be. Yeah, of course, it's a challenge, but it's not a big a challenge today than it was six months ago. I think we can handle it so far, but of course, we have hired some more resources to work with resources and, yeah, I think it's unchanged, and we can handle it as is.
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Stefan Andersson from SEB. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Thank you. Two questions from me. First, on the tax rate. If I understand correctly, Oras has been loss-making for a while, and there might be some tax assets in there. How quickly can you utilize them? Should we expect that already this year, or is it more something that could come towards 2018, 2019?
You said, Stefan, in Finland or?
No, Oras. Oras.
Yes. No. That's correct. There is some. When we bought the company,
We had, there was some loss carryforward in the company, and, according to the rules in Norway, we can start them to use them here and now, more or less. We are not paying tax in Norway today, and we probably will not do next year either. That, that's a good, good from a cash flow perspective.
Yeah, what I meant was, I can't really see that change as in Q2. I had expected maybe the tax rate to come down slightly, but are these assets already in the balance sheet, so it's more a cash flow item?
Yeah, it's more cash flow item, and we are, as I said, we were not paying tax, in Norway today, and so there will be a difference in between paid tax and what the tax we see in the cost and loss.
Okay, thank you. Then secondly, we'll touch upon, I guess, in the question before. Are you seeing any changes when it comes to the marketplace? I mean, it's good demand, at the same time, you have some competitors who are being aggressive and maybe slowing down a little bit, and they, you know, guarding their profits rather than going for volume, I guess. Have you seen that materializing in the market as well? That, for instance, Caverion are a lot less aggressive when it comes to tenders?
I don't think I have that fact. What we can see is that I've heard that they think the Stockholm market is a little bit weak. We think the Stockholm market is as it has been for a while. I think maybe that's the result of their focusing more about the margin than they had done earlier. That's a change, actually. We still see a strong demand. Of course, sometimes we come to the situation where they really need to focus on the margin instead of only volume. I'm not talking on a specific company saying that, but of course, that's what everyone needs to do. I, of course, think and hope they have started doing that.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Henrik Nilsson from Nordea Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thank you. Afternoon, Mattias, and this is Johan. Starting off with your cash flow and more specifically, the working capital. I mean, with the negative working capital, I would expect you to, over time, actually be releasing capital as you're growing, but you've been negative now for six, I think it's six quarters, on average, and you've been tying up more capital. Can you explain what's behind that?
I think we were on negative working capital. It used to be, if we see that there is something between 4%-7% over the year, that we are, if you look for negative working capital sales. Of course, now, when we, if you look for the last quarter, of course, when we bought Oras, they don't have the same situation as we had. I think that could well be in a future potential as well. I think what we are committed to have the cash conversion over 100%, we have today, last quarter was 99, now it's 104, this is the target we are working with.
Okay, is it fair to assume that you will return to actually releasing cash in the cash flow from working capital as well, or do you think that's overly optimistic?
I think we are, I think what we have communicated early, that we should not improve our cash position, and we should, our working capital position, but we would like to keep it. I think that's, of course, when we do an acquisition, they are, they don't have the negative working capital as we have today. That's, of course, short term, have a negative impact, but it's, we will try to keep this same situation we have, and I think it's probably could be little too tough target to improve it.
Okay. Thank you. Moving on to the segments, maybe starting in the smallest one, Finland. Can you give us the number for how much revenues came from Asentaja in the quarter?
I think I don't have the figure in front of me here and now, and, but in other way.
Let me ask the question this way, instead.
Yeah.
Is it, you know, organic growth is probably around negative 15%-20%? Is that correct?
Yeah. We have a negative organic growth on that area, in that area, yes. We are, as I mentioned earlier, that we are working with the quality in the business, try to go for margin instead of volume.
Yeah. Yeah, on my numbers, it seems like the negative organic growth is actually accelerating on the downside. Is, I guess, is that a correct view, and what should we expect here going forward, do you think?
What we, in our plan is that we probably will be in negative one, a negative organic growth in Q3. It should be stabilized, we should start growing towards the end of this year. I think another way of asking this question, answer this question is that, I think if it's just for Finland, I think we have an organic growth for Sweden, Denmark and Norway, for one and a half %, roughly.
Yeah, I understand.
I think that in Finland, we're not only focusing on the margin before volume. We have been forced to doing that, and that's not surprise, but it's also the result out of that is actually that we need to find more profitable customers, and I think that takes some times before we have more profitable than new ones. I think this pattern is actually expected, and it will be the same pattern next quarter before we can change that, yeah, change the direction of that line.
Thank you very much. Maybe coming back to Sweden here also, I mean, sequentially, if we just reach and everything, the margin is looking exceptionally strong in, in this quarter. If I, if I understood your answer correct from the previous questions, that this is sort of a level that you think is sustainable and it's not boosted by any extraordinary events or one-offs, right?
No. No, there is no one-offs or no negative one-offs in Sweden this quarter.
Okay, thank you. One last question from my side. Just to confirm, basically, you stated, Mattias, that organic growth in the order backlog was around 18%. I guess two things in this, is that number correct? And also, am I right in that number being the strongest one in probably the past 3 years, I think, at least?
I think it's around 18%. It's not an exact number. I think I need to say something about it, because quite large part of the increase in order backlog were coming from Oras. Even if without the order backlog coming from Oras, we had a strong growth in our own, yeah, the organic order backlog, so to say. Around 18%, it could be 19 or 16. I'm not exactly sure about that. The strong growth organically in the order backlog as well, is what the thing I want to address.
The duration of these contracts are in line with what you normally have, or is there any reason to believe that it's different?
Yeah, I wouldn't say that we have the same knowledge about the order backlog from Oras, but in our own order backlog, we don't know or can't see any dramatic changes from that perspective, no.
Okay. That's it for me. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Pat Jörgensen from IMT Asset Management. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Yes, thank you for taking my questions. A few one here, if you could take a talk a bit about the bigger projects, above SEK 50 million. I mean, it's common knowledge that construction companies have huge problems with these bigger projects. How do you manage to keep the margin and also to keep the costs in place with these bigger orders? That's my first question.
Yeah, thank you very much. You said SEK 50 million?
Yeah, about SEK 50 million. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it starts already during the tendering, the work with the tenders. First of all, I'm part of all tenders that we are submitting above SEK 50 million. That's actually the limit where I'm part of the discussion. That's not, of course, because of I'm better in calculation, but you have a proper discussion. You know that when I'm in the meeting, the quality in the work, calculation is a little bit better, and we can have proper discussion around risks, order backlogs, margin, the type of customer, the type of organization we put in place, and we also have steering committees on all these projects, and we follow up on these projects very tightly, of course. We don't have very many of those. I think we have today, 10 projects, 15 projects above SEK 100 million.
Yeah.
It's not a situation that we can't manage or follow up. We are following up on these very closely.
Okay. You don't have, for example, in some of the hospital, and I know from Denmark that some of the hospital projects are for some of the constructions companies, a bit of a challenge. Are your contracts done in different ways, so you can, is it cost plus, or do you have to put in a fixed price for these bigger projects, and then you have to manage them fairly or better than the constructions companies, or how does it work?
Actually, I don't know how the construction companies manage the business, but we have a mix of fixed price and cost plus, you can say, depends on which country we are in or what kind of projects we are working with. We see these slightly larger projects as less competitive, where we have another, a better chance of pricing the risks, and we're always pricing the risks in the way we think it should be priced. If we can't price it, we actually say, "No, thank you," and leave it. Some projects we're winning and some projects we are not winning. We do not allow anyone in the organization to actually bid on those type of projects.
You need to have the resources, you need to have the right organization and competencies to actually be part of this project. I think that's the most important thing, make sure you have the right organization in place to be to bid on those projects, so you are sure you can deliver the right quality on time, to the right cost. I think that's the most important strategy as part of these projects.
Okay, thank you. My last question on the Swedish market, do you see there's a trend that the renovation will come back to the market? Now, you mentioned that the commercial is a bit maybe stable, you see the new construction of housing. Do you see the renovation side coming back to the market?
No, I can't say that we have seen it yet, but my guess is that the big construction companies in Sweden, they think it's more profitable today to build residentials and sell their homes. Which means that we don't have resources in the industry to actually work with the renovations. I think when the residential goes down, the renovation definitely will go up, but have to go up. There will be a high demand for renovation when the residential comes down. I think that's my guess, and that hasn't happened yet, but it will.
In due course, yeah. Okay, great. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Johan Helldahl from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Thank you. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Yes, hello, Johan.
Hello, hi. My first question is on the market dynamics. In this type of strong market, do you see pressure on wages upwards, but typically, you also are able to raise your own prices in the tenders? Could you elaborate a bit how that dynamic works now? Are you able, in the tendering, are the tenders good enough to offset the higher wage costs?
I think, if there are something that or one thing that this industry is good at, is actually to pass through increased cost to the customers. We have been doing that for decades. That has changed in the last year because the customers have been more professional. I think, in normal year, we and our competitors, and the industry is used to pass through the increased cost to the customers. I think, again, when we have the tendering meeting, discussing tenderings, we always discuss the durational projects, what kind of increases do we are we going to face during this period, and so on. We try to increase the prices and make sure that we have covered the increased cost in the projects and so on.
Okay, good.
Of course, it's a some there are a delay in a couple of months, depending on when we have won the project, and so on. So far, we haven't seen very high increases, and we can see that we're working in extreme strategic way regarding the procurement, and we haven't seen any dramatic changes in the material prices until now, at least, so.
Okay. Another question on how the market works. If you look at the construction company, they are more frequently using foreign firms for their work, cheaper costs, but also due to the constraints of labor. How is that affecting you in the tendering process, if you work with foreign construction companies versus the normal national ones? Do you see any type of shift in the installation market, where foreign firms are entering?
I would say no, not so far. First of all, we are, of course, looking at that solution ourselves to see what kind of benefits we can try to take out of the possibility to use foreign labors and so on. I think, I know that some of the construction companies are doing it today, and we're following that quite closely. What I have heard is that in some services or installation projects, where the where the installation part is not that complex, it can be working, but it's not a success so far. Of course, the industry is changing, we need to follow it or lead it. I think this is very much having effect in the large cities, maybe because we have...
You need to remember that we have more than 250 bosses, 150 location, and many of those locations are on the countryside, where it's the project or service business are not that large. It's not efficient enough to use other labor forces to doing that. Again, 50%, close to 50%, I'd say, is a service, meaning that you need to have your own resources to deliver the services to the customers because they need to know the customers, they need to know the language, they need to know the geography and the building, so they can find the room for central heating and so on.
I think things are happening in the industry, it's going quite slow, and we are following it closely, and we try to take advantage of it ourselves as well.
Okay, my final question on Oras. I think you mentioned that you, Oras was break even in the quarter, which was a positive surprise. What do you expect for Oras in the coming quarters?
I think we have said that we expect a loss in 2017, and I think it's too early to change that estimate by now. We think that we have seen exactly what we thought we should see after our due diligence. No major surprises, we know what to do. Slightly positive results in or break-even result in the quarter is, yeah, it's good, but it's quite early. We haven't been through all the projects yet, but it's at least as good as we thought it should be.
Okay.
yeah, but.
again-
It's too early to change the estimates, already now.
Looking at this analog, is it similar in Oras, as you have been in Bravida, where Q4 is typically the strongest, or is it?
Yeah, it's the same. The only difference between Sweden and Norway should be that the Easter effect is slightly larger or bigger in Norway than it is in Sweden.
If you break even now, and there's no extraordinary cost in Oras, then Q4 is typically the strongest quarter, then.
Yeah, you know, but I think, we, I hope you're right, but, we know that we had the possibility to take out some costs, in the long run, and of course, the first year it will cost something to take out that cost. We usually, do that in the P&L, and we are not presenting that.
Okay.
as one-offs. I think to make this efficient, profitable, competitive, I think it will cost some money in the second half of this year.
Okay, got it. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do have any final questions, please press 01 on your telephone keypad now. As there appear to be no further questions, I'll return the conference to our speakers.
Okay, thank you very much, and I think good questions, and thank you for those. I just want to say thank you for listening, and I hope you will all get have a good and great summer. Let's hope we get in touch soon again, and that we can present an even better Q3. That, yeah, we will see. Have a nice summer, and thank you very much. Thank you. Bye.