Welcome to the CTEK Audiocast with Teleconference for the Third Quarter 2021. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in a listen-only mode, and afterwards there will be a Question- and- Answer Session. Today I am pleased to present CEO Jon Lind and CFO Marcus Lorendal. Speakers, you may begin. Thank you.
Thank you and welcome everybody. Jon Lind here. We are at the first slide now saying interim report Q3. I would like to go to the next page and that shows today's presenters. As I said, Jon Lind here, CEO since 2013. Marcus Lorendal, CFO since April 2020. We go to the next slide. I would like to take the opportunity for you who's listening to give a little bit more color around CTEK and who we are and what we are doing. In this page you see a number of different products. As we describe our business is we divide it into two technology legs. One technology is the low voltage products that is chargers for 12 and 24 volt applications.
We were first in the world in 1997 to introduce those smart battery chargers and have developed product since then. We also developed our global footprint in that area. Over time, we of course looked into new opportunities and so on parallel to the low voltage segment. That took us to the EVSE side, electric vehicle supply equipment. We stepped into that business in 2018 based on an acquisition we did of Chargestorm in 2018. Chargestorm started in 2009. They were pioneers within their field of the EVSE side. Today we have these two legs to stand on and drive the business forward in that way. That is what we are doing.
Important to point out also and describe who we are and the culture in the company. We base our culture on three different cornerstones. We have first of all, the trust side, and trust for us that is to have a customer-centric approach and a transparent and honest way of communicating. We have had the opportunity to be in the business for a long time with the low voltage since 1997 and EVSE for a little bit more than one decade now. We have been able to build long-standing relationships with customers, suppliers and so on. The second one, innovation.
Innovation for us is a clear part of our DNA and built on customer insight and have that mindset that never stop developing, and make sure that we carry out maximize the customer value in the end. The third one, last but not least, the passion around this business and how we drive both product development, business development and so on. We have managed to have an entrepreneurial culture in the company with a high engagement from the workforce. That is the quick version of what we are doing and who we are. If you then go to the next slide and start to look into the market a little bit more.
We start with the low voltage side, and I think there can be pictures out there that the low voltage side is something that could disappear based on that electrification of course, and other vehicles takes off. But if you look at the use of 12- and 24-volt batteries, they are increasing. They are increasing based on both that we see more advanced technology in the existing car park and new cars on the road. Today we know that you have 12-volt batteries within both the combustion-driven cars and hybrid and electrical. Besides that, we see also other type of applications that increasing and the usage overall of 12- and 24-volt batteries are increasing.
We also see that the battery technology is changing over time, and that requires new chargers, new technologies. If you summarize the global market for premium 12-volt batteries, we see a CAGR of about 3% going forward, and that is then related to the automotive sector. As I said, there are other segments out there as well. Going over to the right part of this slide, we are describing our footprint and our position in the world. We have a leading position in the premium segment of low-voltage chargers. We point out North America here where we have a position number three. We see North America as a growing market for us going forward. We go to the next slide and that takes us into the EVSE market.
I believe it's important to look at this market from a segmentation point of view and make sure you have the best picture of the different segmentation to sort of compare companies and so on. In our case, we have listed three different areas here. One is the home charging area, the other one is destination chargers, and then we have a box called others. I'm coming back to that. We have been focusing in the past and now also on the destination charging, where you have the more complex, the bigger infrastructure charging infrastructures toward charge point operators, bigger installers, parking owners, et cetera. That has been our focus. We have thousands of installations in homes as well. That has not been the focus area for us.
Under others, we have created and launched a new product in the beginning of the year called NJORD GO, which is a new segment you could say, and not so well known on the market, where you have a portable charger that has a high capacity, and in our case, also a connectivity, so you can connect it to Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and carry it with you. It takes you up to potentially 11 kW. That's, as said, a portable charger. A perfect platform for the aftermarket side. What I mean there, it's a product that you can sell off the shelf and carry with you and plug it into your mains power by yourself. You don't need a fixed installation. It's also the platform for our OEM customers.
If you look at the growth here and the CAGR and related to Europe, we believe that we will be around the 30%. That is how the market look like in CAGR the coming years. On the right side of this picture, we point out our position and how we are using our footprint and our heritage going forward in the EVSE segment. We are used to work with a global footprint and with everything that comes with that to move into new countries and so on, regulations, standards, logistics and so on. We are showing a proven track record in innovations and profitability since 1997.
Now, the go-to-market approach is well established now through three divisions that I will come back to, and we have relationships with over 50 of the OEMs around the world. On the technical side that we described in the last four boxes here, could say that for us, having focus on the destination charging, it is a question of carry out robust systems that you can support in the end when it's in operation, have the scalability, and last but not least in that area, both having relevant back-end software solutions and a strong, stable load balancing system, so you can distribute the energy and the power to the right point at the right time.
To describe the quick version of how we are describing our position, our focus, in the EVSE market. Let's go to the next slide, which will be the number six. That picture shows now how we are organized. If we start from the left, we're talking about sourcing. We have established a team in and close to our external suppliers in China, and we've been there over 20 years now. That team work with both, of course, the procurement side, but also quality assurance, and other things related to the supply chain side. On the organization side in the next row there, we talk about the R&D side. We have approximately 40% of the workforce, they are related to product development. This is a product development company.
We have seen that it's been good with this structure during especially this environment we are operating now in the hard situation with the tough situation which the temporary and shortage of components, meaning that we own our own design fully. We take the full ownership of everything we design, and that gives a certain flexibility also to change out components and so on to minimize the risk. If you walk over then to how we carry out these two technologies, the EVSE and low voltage, then I come back to the three divisions, which is very important to point out our route to market and route to our customers. On the top, you have Energy and Facilities.
Energy and Facilities, as I said before, they go to charge point operators, electrical wholesalers, property owners, et cetera. The ones that are installing or operate these destination chargers mainly. On the aftermarket side, that is something we started in 1997 with, you could say, because we started in the consumer field with the low voltage side. We have the distribution network now and reach, we reach about 70 countries today through distributors, both pure retailers, omnichannels, and online players. In that division, we carry out both the EVSE products, NJORD GO is an example, and low voltage products. The third one, that is the OE side, where we go direct to different type of OEMs, mainly in the automotive sector.
We have announced our relationship with GM as an example that has been there for 10 years, first low voltage and now moving into the EVSE side, with them. We can take the next slide, which is the seven, page seven. A little bit about split between technologies and divisions and so on. If you start in top left corner, you see that they have 18% of the total sales is related to EVSE today. In the middle, we're talking about sales per division, and the aftermarket side is the biggest one. You have OE and E&F at 12% and 16% of the total sales. I would like to highlight the middle one in the bottom there.
You have the per region and the one there that you point out on the lower side 5% Americas. We see, as I said earlier, that Americas is an interesting growing market, both in the low voltage side and the coming here now, the EVSE field. On the right side we point out again the important part that we carry through the EVSE business through all three divisions, and the low voltage goes through aftermarket and OE. We go to next slide, and that takes us to the sustainability, the ESG side, page eight. I mean, we are fortunate because we have our business itself is an enabler to get the better world. If we start with the EVSE side, I think it speaks for itself.
Now with more than 50,000 charging points installed, we have a quite big footprint, and we continue that journey. But don't forget the low voltage side because our technology, that one extend the battery lifetime. So we actually extend the battery lifetime in the 12 and 24 volt segment. That is of course also a contributor to this. The second here, we talk about the organization and the resources usage. We started already 2017 to measure and put activities in place, how we could reduce the CO2 footprint within the company. In this case, it relates to both our car fleet and facilities that we own. The health and safety side, super important.
We are used to be in a tough environment and risk environment, and we have managed this in a very good way as we see it. Things connected to this is also the well-being in the company, and we are measuring that also. I think we have reached a good level here about the well-being in the company overall. Going to the fourth block here, the governance side and responsibility reflected in CTEK's code of conduct. Here I think it's a question of implementation and how you implement things and get it into the DNA of the company and other stakeholders. We have education for all employees, suppliers, et cetera, on a regular basis.
We have our own internal auditors going out, for example, into the supply chain to look after potential gaps, helping to improve and so on. The last one, we have ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 since 2012. I think we are one of the few in this segment and business area. That, I mean, today we are a line feeder to some of the OEMs, and that requires a quite high level in a number of fields here. One is of course to have these certifications in place and the processes and policies connected to those. Let's go to next slide, and I will not go through all the details, and that is slide nine. Continue with the ESG.
What I want to show here is that we have a number of defined initiatives in place, and some of them are ahead of others. On the right side, we have pointed out our timeline for the different initiatives, and in some cases, we also split them into sub-activities to take this forward. I believe it's super important here as well, we do what we say we are going to do. It's a question of take this forward step by step and become better every day and every month and so on. We will take this over a certain period now to improve and tick off these initiatives. Go to the next slide saying Interim Report Q3.
Thank you for listening to me, my description of CTEK before we now jump into the Q3 report. Let's go then to the next slide, and that is slide 11, operational highlights for Q3. What we have seen here is that we have a continuing strong demand across all divisions, both the Energy and Facilities, aftermarket, and the OE division. We have also seen in late September that we got some supply chain disruptions. We also see that we continue with higher logistic costs connected to this. We have also increased our export share in the division Energy and Facilities according to plan. We also established an EV business in Germany, which we know that is the heart of automotive in Europe.
May be worth mentioning also that we have doubled our turnover in the EVSE field if you compare Q3 2020 and Q3 2021. Other things here related to products. I'm proud, I must say, to be able to show you this list of new products that we carried out to the market during a pandemic. We have now in Q3 launched our new consumer platform called CS ONE. That one is, I must say, takes battery charging to complete new level when we're talking about safety and simplicity, where you have a product now that really do the job for you. You don't have to understand what kind of chemistry you have in the battery because it feels that by default in itself, and it adapts to also the size of the battery.
There are other things as well connected to the APTO technology that we now carry out in the CS ONE. CS FREE was launched in the beginning of this year and the first multifunctional portable charger in the 12-volt segment and where you don't need a power outlet. We can by that CTEK also moves into a new type of segment where we can take a flat battery up to a position or a level where you can start your engine or use your battery for what you're now going to use it for. You can also charge your computer and phones, and we have also connected solar panel systems to this technology.
I have already mentioned NJORD GO, and that was also launched in the beginning of this year and is a portable charger now that we have rolled out to some of the markets. We were listed on Nasdaq Stockholm in September. This, as we see, it was a milestone for the company, a logical and an important step. By this, we also developed and to develop to establish a position as a global player in the EV space together with our principal new owner, Latour. I think Latour gives us the possibility now also to continue like we have done in the past, invest long term. Let's go to next slide. I hand over to you, Marcus, and that will be slide 12.
Thank you, Jon. What I wanted to do is go through some key financials for Q3. As Jon mentioned, we see strong demand across all divisions. How does that translate into the growth for each of those divisions? Well, overall, we see an as-reported growth of 8% going from SEK 193 million to almost SEK 209 million. Adjusting for effects, the growth was 9%. The increase was mainly driven by Energy & Facilities that almost doubled its sales volume, partially offset by aftermarket, which was down versus last year for the reason that Jon just mentioned, with the supply chain disruptions that we had.
If you look at the gross margin, that has come down by 3 percentage points from Q2 last year from 53.6% to 50.6%, mainly due to three reasons, higher logistics and component cost, but also product mix. Then if we go down the income statement, you see that adjusted EBITDA for the group is almost SEK 35 million, down from SEK 53 million. After that, we have the depreciations on non-acquisition related fixed asset, which has gone up by a little bit more than SEK 3 million from SEK 6.6 million to SEK 9.7 million. That is in line with our strategy to continue to invest and develop new products and features. With that, the depreciation charges are increasing at the time that we complete the project and start selling the product.
That gives us an adjusted EBITDA for the group of SEK 25 million, down SEK 22 million from almost SEK 47 million last year. In summary, you can say that that decrease is due to the lower gross margins for the reasons I just mentioned, but also as we continue to invest in the organization in order for us to continue working on the strategy and execute the plan to reach our financial targets. Below adjusted EBITDA in 2021 Q3, you see a line called items affecting comparability of SEK 20.5 million. That is all related to the IPO work that we did, expenses that we had due to the IPO listing. That gives us an EBITDA for the group of SEK 4.5 million.
We have a financial net of SEK 41.1 million for the quarter. In that, I would like to highlight one item of SEK 24 million, which is basically a non-cash expense that we had when we did the previous financing, we had expenditures that was capitalized in the balance sheet. When we did the refinancing and we paid off all financing, we also had to write off that asset from the balance sheet. Again, that was a non-cash item. Profit and loss for the period ended at almost SEK 32 million, down from a positive SEK 12.6 million. Again, you have items affecting comparability impacting that number and also this one-off cost included in the financial net number.
If we go to the next page, we can look at each of the divisions individually, starting with the Aftermarket Division. Aftermarket Division was down 6% on an as-reported basis. Comparing or adjusting for effects, it was down 4%. That was mainly due to the substantial supply chain disruptions that Jon described earlier that happened at the end of September. If you look at the segment results, the adjusted EBITDA, that was down SEK 18 million from 67 down to 49. Again, obviously impacted by the lower sales, but also higher logistics costs and component costs. If we look at the first nine months, we did see an increase of 31% on an as-reported basis. Adjusting for FX, the increase was 36%.
Our adjusted EBITDA increased from SEK 146 million to SEK 188 million, and the margin, segment margin was almost flat from 40.8% to 40.3%. If we then take the next page and we look at original equipment. Original equipment had a net sales increase of 14%, going from SEK 22 million to SEK 25 million. If you adjust for FX, the organic growth was 16%. The adjusted EBITDA was around SEK 5 million, which is almost the same number as we had last year. But with a higher sales number this year, the margin went down from 24.15% to 19.5%. For the first nine months, we had an increase of 27%, on an as-reported basis.
Adjusting for FX, the increase was 34%. We did see an increase in the EBITDA from SEK 8 million last year to SEK 17 million this year. That also created a higher segment margin of 22% up from almost 14% last year. If we take the Energy and Facilities divisions, take the next page. Here, we had a strong increase in the Energy and Facilities, which almost doubled in sales, up 98%. Adjusting for FX, it was up 99%, so going from almost SEK 19 million to SEK 38 million. However, the adjusted EBITDA you can see is still a negative for the quarter of SEK -4 million, up from almost SEK 2 million from the SEK -6 million we had last year.
I would like to highlight here that Energy & Facilities is a division that we are obviously want to increase quite a lot, and it includes only EVSE products. It's important for us to make sure we drive safe in that area. As you know, our financial target sets in the medium term, we're having a SEK 2 billion in medium term with the majority from EVSE products and obviously Energy & Facilities is a key component to reach that target.
It is a division that today is subscale and if you do the increase from SEK 19 million to SEK 38 million in sales and you only see almost SEK 2 million increase in the EBITDA margin, it demonstrates that fact that this is a division that we continue to invest in, and over time, it will be scalable and will be an important factor for us to reach our financial targets. If you look into the first nine months, the net sales increased by 83%, up to coming above 100 million, 104 million, up from 57 million last year. On a comparable FX basis, it was up 84%.
Here again, if we look at the adjusted EBITDA, it has actually decreased to SEK -13 million, and last year for the first nine months, it was SEK -7 million. It just reconfirmed the subscale point that I mentioned earlier. With that, I will then take the next page, which is the cash flow and CapEx side. If we start with the development year to date, this is for the first nine months. We have cash flow from operating activities amounting to SEK -2 million. Last year, it was 47. The key reason for that development is the development of the working capital, where we this year have increased the inventory balances. There is also an increase in the receivable balance.
The inventory is today a strategy that we try to build as much inventory as we can, so in order to secure deliveries to our customers to in the best possible way. On the next line, we mention the CapEx. Again, we are committed to continue to develop new products, and Jon already mentioned a few of them that we have developed this year. I think this number also confirmed this strategy. As we can see, the CapEx has increased from SEK 28 million to SEK 42 million for the first nine months. If we then add the cash from financing activities which for the first nine months amounted to SEK -19 million, the majority of that was related to the refinancings that we did in connection with the IPO.
We have a cash flow for the period that is negative by SEK 63 million. That leaves us with a cash position of SEK 34 million at 30 September . As we did the IPO, we did also complete the refinancing where we received a capital injection into the company. With that, we were also able then to change our financial leverage, and we had a net debt ratio as per 30 September of 2.3, down from 5.2 last year. At the end of the page, at the bottom of the page, just to reiterate our commitment to invest in the business and how that compare with the net sales number, you can see that our CapEx as a percentage of sales has remained stable for the last 12 months, 57 million.
As a percentage of sales, it's 6%, which was the same percentage as we had for the calendar year 2020, and down from 8% in 2019. With that, I will hand back to Jon, who will then go through the next page, which is current trading.
Yes. We are on current trading. Thank you, Marcus. Some words around that one. We have advanced our market positions, enhanced visibility in online channels. We have strengthened the relationship with both end consumers, a number of leading automotive manufacturers and major charge point operators. We see that we have really taken steps there. We have already talked about the strong demand across all divisions and of course, we see this electrification help us to grow the EVSE segment overall. The low voltage side continue to be a segment that is growing, and we now have also launched new products within existing segments, but also taking us into new segments within the low voltage side.
Based on this strong demand that we see, we continue to invest now in the organization going forward. We invest in new exporting markets, mainly related to the EVSE segment. Parallel to that, we continue to develop products and invest in that area. We have announced the long-term strategic partnership with General Motors, and I mentioned it before, an important part that has been in our plan from the strategic plan we have put in place earlier. We had now the chance to communicate who the customer was, and we are of course proud to be a supplier now to help them to roll out the Ultium charging system in first North America.
That, as we see it, will be in the books from second quarter of 2022. This is based on GM's call-offs over time. Refinancing will give a lower interest cost going forward. Last but not least, we see now and have described that we have disruptions in the supply chain, and we continue with higher logistics costs, and that will have an impact on the business the coming quarters. Thank you for that. Let's go over to next slide. A quick one on the financial targets, and Marcus, you maybe can take that quick version of that.
Yeah. You may have seen this already, but just to then reiterate, our financial targets are achieve SEK 2 billion in sales in the medium term, with the majority stemming from EVSE products. As you can see from the Q2 report, our EVSE share of the total sales was 20%, up from 10% last year. A good development there in Q3. Achieve an adjusted EBITDA margin of more than 25% in the medium term. Here, just to reiterate, growth in the Energy & Facilities division, the one that I mentioned is subscale, may impact in the short term. We look at the capital structure. The net debt shall amount to less than three times last 12 months adjusted EBITDA.
Obviously, if we would make strategic decisions to make an acquisition, that could have a temporary impact on that leverage. Today, at 30 September , we were at 2.3. We also have a dividend policy saying that we should pay out the dividend corresponding to 30% of net earnings.
Yeah. We go to the last page before we take the Q&A sessions, number 20, and a quick one on the strategy going forward here. This is a strategy that we have had in place for some time. If you start with aftermarket, it's a question of now using the existing distribution network we have to also distribute the relevant EVSE product. We have been talking on the low voltage side that we developed, and we have already launched some of the products within that field. The OE strategy is very straightforward, using the existing relationships we have, but also of course looking for new ones to tap in with now parallel to the low voltage side, also going with the EVSE side.
Energy & Facilities, we are expanding that geographically right now and investing in that part. Parallel to that, also continue to invest in the hardware and backend offering. M&As for us, we have a strategy that is based on organic growth to reach the financial targets, but we see M&As as an opportunity to maybe speed up and secure in a different way. We will look for opportunities connected to accelerate our existing strategy. Thank you for that. I suggest that we go then to the last page, 22, for Q&As.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question for the speakers, please press zero one on your telephone keypad. We have a question from Johan Eliason from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, Jon and Marcus. This is Johan at Kepler Cheuvreux. Some questions just, I'll take them one by one. I noticed a pretty good growth on the EVSE business, more than 100% up year-over-year. Is it so that you're able to source the components that might be difficult to get hand on today and you prioritize the EVSE business as it's a significant growth opportunity right now or are those components sort of different and the problems with supply is just because the specific components for a specific product that's missing or how should we think about it?
Yeah. There are a number of different factors into this. We decided at the early stage to try to build a stock related to EVSE field, EVSE product program. That's been a help for us to build stock and we've been able to do so. Of course, we had a separate one connected to the aftermarket side of the consumer goods that was the biggest disruption during end of September that had an impact nearly 10% of the total turnover in Q3. As you say, we have managed the EVSE side better during Q3 compared to the consumer chargers in the low voltage segment.
Do you think that could continue or could it be the EVSE the next quarter, basically because you have low visibility on the component supply?
Yeah. I don't want to speculate and guess here. I think it's better to take it step by step and look into this. I cannot say that we can secure it in that way. We have been building stock that has of course helped, and then we are on it based on how we are also operating the sourcing and so on. We try to be fast to change components if we have to and can.
Good. On the GM contract, you gave us the details it will start to kick in as of Q2. Will there be more announcements similar to this one in, let's say, the coming quarters?
That is nothing I can talk about right now and answer on. We have announced GM.
Yeah. Now this was a destination charger or a home charger. I thought also potentially the new NJORD GO would be a suitable product for the OE partners. Is that also sort of part of the plan going forward?
Yeah. You're good at analyzing the program here. We made one announcement regarding the Pininfarina super sports car here, Battista, that selected us as the supplier for the EVSE side with NJORD GO as the product that goes with the car. That is of course an example. It's not high volumes. I think they will produce 150 cars. It is what you say, that it's a perfect platform. I can say that the NJORD GO platform is the base of the GM business as well.
Oh, okay. Okay.
It's of course a customer solution.
Yeah. Now, talking about NJORD GO, I noticed in your numbers you say that EVSE is 18% of turnover, but E&F is 16% basically implying that 2% of the EVSE business sold somewhere outside the E&F division. Is that purely the NJORD GO in the aftermarket division or how big is the NJORD GO today?
We are selling the NJORD GO in aftermarket. Yes. That will be my answer.
Okay. Excellent. Yeah. Well, that were the questions I had.
Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from Kenneth Johansson from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you. Also, if we continue a little bit with the GM deal, there is no exclusivity in that deal that prevents you from striking similar deals with other car manufacturers?
No.
Good.
No.
Also with the component shortages that affected sales now and you say that it's very hard to predict how it's gonna develop in the future in Q2, when you should start your deliveries to GM, I guess that sales volumes for the whole group will be quite significantly positively affected by that deal. Do you have components available to start delivering to GM?
GM, we work on a call-off system. Based on the call-off system, we are trying our best to plan the availability of the products. That is what I can say regarding the GM collaboration we have. We started to develop these products for quite a while and of course they have a rollout program. A pretty good visibility at the early stage for the ramp up. I'm also humbled about the situation in the world regarding the components and so on. Hopefully that mix and that visibility give us the possibility to deliver according to their needs.
Okay. You said also, I mean, the problem you got in September, those delays you got, have you delivered them now? Is production running more smoothly into October and beginning November?
I can describe it like this, that we had an impact of approximately close to 10% of the revenue we could reach in Q3. That amount of chargers, they were delivered in the beginning of October. It was a question of timing in the end of September, and then they went out in beginning of October. They are delivered.
Mm-hmm.
That tells you something about the timing thing regarding the delays. We continue to monitor the shortage of components and changing components and so on, so to try our best to fulfill the needs out there and the demands on a daily basis. I don't want to speculate for the coming quarters. What we have said that we see that it will be some sort of impact for the coming quarters related to this issue.
Can you sort of change and use the components in the products that you sell in the different divisions and sort of prioritize what you ship? I'm thinking that the OE clients are probably very eager to get the products, so that they should be more eager maybe than the aftermarket, but you also should have higher margins in the aftermarket. There are also, I mean, growth potential in the Energy and Facilities division. Can you discuss first if you can sort of direct components to the different product groups and divisions and if you can, how are you thinking around that?
Mm-hmm. This is in some areas. It is possible from a component point of view that they're using the same components in the different products. There are differences as well, so you cannot just swap from one to another. In some areas, we will come and have come into priorities based on shortage of some components that you see in different products. Priorities, of course, they are set according to the best knowledge from customer needs. The priorities like you are saying, OE versus our own aftermarket, consumer, road and so on. It's a mix there. When it comes to margin discussions, we say like this, that we don't match level and supporting margins per product.
In this case, that is not a driver for us because in the end, it's the customer needs. I think you put it very well, customers and the consumers. I think we want to main needs, how we are setting priorities there.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you. That's all for me.
Thank you. We have no other questions for the moment.
Okay. We say thank you, everybody. Have a good day.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's web conference. Thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.