Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Feb 23, 2021

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of Fagel Group's Full Year 2020 and Q4 Report. My name is Michael Brewer, responsible for Strategy and Communications at Fagrut Group. It's a special occasion. It's our very first audio course, So we are especially happy to welcome you to this event. We will continue with these calls regularly as we release our quarterly results going forward. On the call today, we have our President and CEO, Bodil Sonesson and our CFO, Marke Wud. And the structure of today's call will be that Bodil Sonesson starts with business update, Markku Wood will follow with more detailed financial updates and Bodil will conclude with some forward looking initiatives. Afterwards, we will open up for questions. And let me also remind you that today's session is recorded and will be available afterwards on our website. Before we start, for you on the conference call, be aware that the webcast has a 30 second delay, so to better follow the slides presented. You can also download the presentation from our website. With that said, I hand over to Bode. Please go ahead. Okay. So welcome from my side as well to everybody as well. It's a pleasure to have you. And I will start with when we look into 2020, it has been a year filled with both external events that we all know about And that has affected us all. But this is our first web and audio call. Before jumping into the numbers, I just wanted to give you a very quick overview of our focus areas in 2020 before we look at the numbers for both the quarter end and the year end. So we launched a new strategy in the Q1 of 20 20 based on new vision and mission statement as well as the new group branding for the Fagerhut Group, which now is consistently applied within all our 13 brands. And as part of this, we also launched the website beginning of March, which is showing the new strategy and where there is also all information for investors. So I hope that is something that you will be frequently using. We also launched a new organization with 4 business areas and the reporting in line with this we started with already in the beginning of 2020. And when you look into the whys behind the organization, it's been Very much based on collaboration between the brands with the go to look for growth opportunities in the market. So therefore, the organization has done from what I would call an outside in perspective, meaning that we've been looking at the market And what's been good for the market. So we've been looking at 2 areas, which is our common application areas, for example, health care, offices, education and for our key stakeholders and partners like architects, lighting designers, Mechanical and Engineering Consultants. And we were lucky to be able to roll out the new strategy and organization Before COVID-nineteen had an impact in Europe. And we also took a very early decision that we would continue the implementation Even when it meant working over digital tools. And I think when I look with hindsight today, I think that was a very, very good decision. So if we then move over to the Q4, we have, ever since COVID started, Been following our order intake even more closely than normal and have compared average over a rolling 13 week period. And the close down during the spring had a very high impact on the order intake. And I think that's very much related to the that our partners We're not ready for working in home office when they were dealing with big project handling. And since the spring, the order intake has Slowly and steadily been recovering, and we saw this trend continue also during the 2nd lockdown at the end of the year. I think us and many customers have been getting used to the new way of working. And also the fact that in our professional markets, the building activity was kept open during the 2nd lockdown, which was not the case in the 1st lockdown, which made a big difference. And we have all The way since the spring kept our factories 100% open. And I will come back to this a little bit later when we look into the results. There has been big differences between the different business areas. We have had a strong focus. We have communicated so and we've been able to Saved more than 60% costs comparatively to last year. And we had made restructuring activities in quite a few different businesses, Which has improved operating margin at the end of the year. The fact that being in a specification market means that we have seen it being necessary to adapt our cost structure to the current market conditions. I think also very positively has been that we have handled The financial situation well, which has resulted in a stronger cash flow, even stronger than in 2019, which was already a strong comparative year for us. And all of this has been possible, thanks to a very strong team spirit everywhere. And I think that A strong culture, I think we all know it, but when you see it, it makes an even more positive difference when you have a little bit of a tougher market. And also our decentralized structure with sales and operations close to our customer have been very important to keep service levels and customer satisfaction high. So if we look at the next slide and look at Q4 in very brief, Mikael will give you much more details on the financial side later on. So we still see the market activity being affected by COVID. We ended the year with both order intake and net sales at minus 15%. And Actually, the numbers were very close to the Q3 numbers. The adjusted profit was €134,000,000 from 2020. It is adjusted for the cost of disposal of Lighting Innovations, but not including their trading losses, which is part of the result. We normally never do adjusted results, but this is a very, very extraordinary event for us and therefore we decided to do it in this way. So all other restructuring costs or write downs are included in the operational profit. Michael will also be coming back In detail in his presentation to the EPS number, as we show a comparatively high EPS number in Q4, which is related to a tax Change in Italy in a post COVID initiative from the Italian government. If we then move over to Slide number 5 and the fiscal year in figures. You can see that the yearly numbers show a decline in organic order intake, Clean for M and A in currencies of 12.3%. The trend was positive in Q1 and very negative in Q2. And since the summer, we have stabilized and then we've slowly seen that the gap has been decreasing. The net sales were down 14.3 Cassandra Gallogly with a big difference within the business areas. We started 2021 with a slightly better order intake than we did last year and with a much lower cost base. It was also communicated Today, that the board is suggesting a dividend payment of SEK 0.5 per share for approval at the AGM in May. I will not speak a lot about COVID, but in the next slide, just a few points on it. And I think that The mantra for this year with relation to COVID for us internally has been very much keep calm and carry on. We were very quick in securing health and safety for our employees as well as securing our factories, which were very important for us. The only time we had to stop the factories were in Q2 when we had government restrictions and we didn't have any other choice. And as I said before, since then there's been no more factories closed for the rest of the year. And you can see on this slide, we actually got a price in Italy Being one of the companies that has handled COVID in the most professional way, which we were, of course, happy about. Also the change to working large shift from home has been very smooth. And I would say I don't think I've seen one Single glitch during that in the year. And it's had the positive effect that we have been focusing a lot on digital transformation, Not only internally, but also in relation to a customer. So that's a transformation that continue will continue to be very I focus for us going forward. If you're reading our quarterly reports, you've seen that we have had an extensive reporting about COVID activities. And we will if the situation remains stable, we will make that a little bit lighter from next quarter. Despite the COVID, we also completed the divestment of Life Innovations in South Africa in the 4th quarter, which we have been communicating extensively about. And that's also you know the goal behind that is to be able to focus on other market opportunities where we see a much higher Growth potential, so a focused effort. Part of the Q4 report is also the divestment of Comtech That happened in January this year. And Comtech is a company focusing on commissioning that we have been owning since the Fagor World Spain sales Sidri was acquired many years ago. It's the only company in the group which is not in line with our focus Lighting and therefore the divestment. So if we then look in So a little bit more information about the different business areas, and I will start with business area collection. So the year started well from an order intake perspective and came to very much at a stop with COVID. It is I would say it's been tougher this year to be a global player, especially with strong foothills in some of the Southern European markets and on the same time working on big projects. This has been the case for both Iguazini, Ledlinear and Versus, Whereas Atelli, Lichtben, with a strong focus in the Nordics, has had a year with good results. The Q2 was the toughest one in relation to order intake. And as I said before, we've since then seen a more stable situation, but still not entirely back to pre COVID level. We have been working on reducing the cost Quite successfully. And this has also resulted and affected the results with €52,600,000 of redundancy provisions and write offs. We have been continuing to work with the strategy for the business area, and we are finding a lot of corporation possibilities That we will see the fruit of for the long term. And I would also say that we have a very dynamic management team in place. And then I'm going over to Slide number 8, Business Area Premium. And they had a tough start on the order intake and with a better ending of the year. The Business has mainly been impacted in the retail business as selling to retail end customers, whereas the other segments like office, education and health care have had a much better performance. Also here, we see geographical differences, where Northern Europe has been less impacted from the business perspective than the Southern European region. Both Fagerholt and LTS Have completed restructuring programs in Q4, which means that they are having a very healthy cost base when we start 2021. They They're also working on more collaboration between the brands. And with LTS based in Germany, they are How we can grow our relatively low market share on the German lighting market, the biggest market in Europe. And that makes me too professional. They did not deliver good results For 2020, where it looks a little bit better on the order intake, which ended at +1.8%. And the Turkish, these businesses are made it's the Turkish, Australian and British markets, because these businesses are mainly working on the national markets, have all been highly impacted by COVID and measures taken by the government. But with a lower cost base and Order backlog actually 20% higher than last year at the start of 2020 with 2021 should be better. So all of those brands are strong in Healthcare, where we see continuous investment. And I think also the fact that we got clarity on Brexit gives a more predictable business climate, which is positive for the U. K. Market. And White Clough, as we've been communicating before, Has a high focus on sustainability and has very successfully launched a platform called Vitality, for future lighting with a full circular That has been giving a good momentum both internally and externally. And I would recommend you if you're interested on the sustainability side To go in and look at WhiteScout's website where you will get a full, there is a video which gives you a full presentation of the concept. That takes us into business area infrastructure, and we will end with the most positive business area this year Because they've been cooperative both in order intake and on net sales, the growth in order intake of almost 10% and net sales of 7%. And a good combination of geographical markets and also where they are focusing from an application area has been very much of The winning formula. So the businesses are mainly operating in Northern and Middle Europe and is very strong with e commerce Business and also Industrial Applications, so 2 very interesting segments. And the business area continued to work on The growth potential in these regions where they are based, but also focus in Germany and also a big focus in the Nordics where we see the potential Logistics platform. And they've also launched a new product line specifically focused on horticultural lighting. And the backlog is at 26% higher at the start of 2021. And then we're coming to a beautiful picture Before I hand over to Michael Wood, our CFO, and I hope you recognize this. This is the new landmark in Stockholm. The Golden Bridge at Slufsen. So please, Mikael, give us some more information on the financial side. Okay. Thank you, Bodo. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome also from me. It is good, as Mike So Bruno said earlier on that we can bring you our first webcast of the new era for the Paykel Group. I will be pleased to provide a little more information to what Bodil has already provided on the financials. First of all, if we look at the summary, you can clearly see the impact from COVID-nineteen, An impact that has organically reduced net sales by just over 14%, 14.3% to be precise. And at this stage, just to communicate, the 14% that we see there for the full year is now consistent across Q2, Q3 and Q4. So we see no further decline. The last three quarters of the year have been consistently delivered. Part of our management process was to focus on the management of the customer demand, and this has been a high focus and successfully delivered during the last 9 months. The adjustments to net sales arise from acquisitions and divestments relating to, 1st of all, the positive acquisition for Iguazini acquired in March 2019 And then the divestment of Lighting Innovations divested right at the very beginning of November 2020. Just regarding lighting invasions, just so we're all clear, it is important to remind us that the group does not have a divestment strategy. Bodo has explained why we have divested of the subsidiaries. Because this is a unique decision for the Fagod Group, we felt the correct is to adjust the operating results for the one off items relating to Lighting Innovation. You'll see the numbers on the next slide in a short while. The full year adjusted operating margin of 6.5% is respectable under the circumstances of Difficult conditions due to COVID. And at 7.9% in the Q4, it is clear to see the progress we have been making in cost reduction terms and stabilizing the business to make to be in a position, the group, to operate at the COVID-nineteen levels as we move forward. And that's something that we've done successfully over the course of the last 3 quarters. I shall talk a little bit later regarding the rather unusual tax charge and the impact on earnings per share that this has. Bodo mentions the Italian tax decree from August, November of last year, and we have some detail on this. In excess of SEK 1,000,000,000 for each of the last 2 years, we are very pleased with the cash performance of the group, And that positions us well for future requirements. Coming to the adjusted operating profit, it's rare. In fact, it's unique in the Fagor Group's history to adjust And operating profit number to end up with an adjusted operating profit. But you see here the adjustments of CHF 6 £3,000,000 for intangible assets, £15,200,000 for redundancy other costs and £31,000,000 for loss on disposal are unique one off costs. The full year trading losses in Lighting Innovations of almost SEK 20,000,000 have not been adjusted for, And they remain as part of the operating profit, mainly accruing to the end of the third quarter, very little in the 4th quarter. Just a little bit of clarity on what's involved in that adjusted operating profit. Okay. Sales development over a 6 year period. The sales development has developed very strong. It's doubled from SEK 4,000,000,000 to SEK8 billion all the way through from 2015 to 2019. This is due to 2 significant aspects. First of all, the group successfully embraced the lead technology shift, originating at low levels in 2,008, 2010 And growing rapidly through 'twelve and 'thirteen and then on to the chart that we see. And secondly, In the period through to 2019, with the group delivered 5 significant acquisitions, Almost 1 per year during that period. 2020, disappointingly, shows the COVID-nineteen impact per quarter From a different perspective than the earlier chart, but we do hope to ambitiously get back to where we used to be in the not too distant future. Coming to margins, it's a similar Or trail on margins. We feel that the margin has developed well over the longer period, and the longer period goes After before this job, but also for 2015 to 2019, good consistent delivery of margin development at a high level, Also during a period when the group grew significantly. 2020 has been quite different. We reported many challenges during Q1, of which you will be familiar. We put a market communication out. All of these, except the ongoing COVID situation were dealt with quickly. But as we say, the impact of the pandemic has a lasting effect for some time. During a difficult period, we have delivered an average 8% plus adjusted operating margin from Q2 to Q4. And we emerge from 2020 and in improved financial condition as a result of the COVID pandemic. In our opinion, this is a good result and shows what Fodil refers to A fighting team spirit and strong set of values across the stakeholder group organization. Cost savings, it has been a focus. Not surprisingly, we reported upon it in Q2 with 86,000,000 in Q3 with 87,000,000 And in Q4 with 128,000,000. A mixture of different types of cost savings come to this number. And then in total, it's in excess of 16% year on year comparison. But let's be clear, it does not count, does not double count anything to do with the adjustments relating to lighting innovations and the operating profit. And also, the EUR 300,000,000 of savings is after taking a charge of EUR 52,000,000 relating to redundancy costs in several entities. We've scaled the business to the lower level of activity through cost reduction and whilst at the same time Preserving and protecting those areas that are strategically core and maintaining investments in these areas. Important for us to for these to benefit our future growth ambitions in focus identified growth opportunity. Of course, the focus remains on organic growth. But for now, we set the tone for a slow recovery and protect the operating margins by being more efficient and more effective in all areas and in all regions. We are quite prepared for 2021 and the ongoing lasting effects of COVID. Cash flow, an obvious highlight, not just for 2020, but also for 2019. The cash performance has been strong. There was a significant focus on cash generating activities, in particular working capital, It's improving the effectiveness of working capital. The result is clear. So to the impact On the net debt position on the next slide that I'll come to a little bit later. And just to conclude on this slide that probably need no further That explanation. Of course, we maintain our focus on this working capital and cash flow management in the current period and in the year 2021. Net debt development. First of all, it is important for the listeners To understand that, I should clarify that this chart shows the net debt adjusted for IFRS 16. Also, it shows the net debt to EBITDA ratio also adjusted for IFRS 16. And further, you will expect that any acquisitions and or divestments are dealt with on the traditional way of pro form a basis. So what you look at here is adjusted net debt for IFRS 16, and the ratio is calculated Again, without IFRS 16 complication in there and any acquisitions or divestments are taken for a rolling 12 months into all of these numbers. Despite that you can see just to the right of the center of the slide is obviously the Bridgestone Finance for the Q1 2019 acquisition of Agazini the following quarter paid off or repaid due to the rights issue. And then we closed the 2020 year At the same level, as we closed the 2018 year, which is a strong delivery of cash generation and debt management Over 2 year period 2019 2020 following not only the group's largest acquisition of Iguazini, but also in dealing in this last 12 months with the challenges thrown onto our plate with COVID-nineteen. The net debt to EBITDA ratio has increased during the 2 year period, but has been in control and well within the Ovenance situation we have with our lenders for the whole of 2020, and it closed at 2.74 for the end of the year. Just two slides to go from me. And ultimately, earnings per Yes. From a good level, as you can see there, good level and a good growth in development of earnings per share, the EPS measure has, of course, We're iterated during 2020. We expect an improvement in 2021 and beyond. That wouldn't be unreasonable for any listeners to for that expectation to come forward, and we reinforced that expectation. The sharp increase that you see there in Q4, just look very odd, very unusual given the COVID situation, is due to the adoption of new tax legislation in Italy, which I'll explain even further on in the later slide. The approximate EPS for 2020 without the tax credit can readily be calculated from the information provided In the Q4 report that was released a few hours ago. So let me take you now straight away to that because it is an unusual transaction. And what we seek to what we explain on this slide is that during 2020, The Italian government taking several actions to support the economy, this tax decree, reference 104 2020 is just one aspect. There was 5 or 6 different measures that they took. We adopted at the group and the Agazzini subsidiary in Italy. We're well positioned to adopt this new legislation. It's what we did and move forward from there. In summary, we take, in 2020, An additional tax charge in our Italian subsidiary of SEK 52,000,000 and also, at the same time, reversed the deferred tax of SEK488,000,000 on the intangible asset valued on the balance sheet as IGAZINI trademark. So simple form, we take a tax charge of $52,000,000 and we We reverse our $488,000,000 deferred tax relating to the intangible asset, the Gazzini trademark. The whole process is long term, at least 18 years, perhaps a little bit longer. And the benefits will accrue in the lower tax rate payable in the Italian subsidiary over the course of the next 18 years As we can now, under this legislation, amortize into the corporate income tax calculation, The amortization of the intangible asset and the deferred tax thereon. And that will last until the tax has been fully recovered. So we see a future benefit, but that future benefit will take some time to come through in full. Over on the right hand side, the headline numbers there are clear from the Q4 report, but also we make it clear that the underlying tax charge is SEK 80,600,000 for 2020 And SEK 180,900,000 for the prior year. Okay. I'm going to add this current slide just to show that we are also into indoor projects as well, which is what you would expect. The head office of the Law Society in Paris designed by Renzo Piano, the famous Italian architect. At that point, I'll be pleased to hand back to Bodo for conclusion and recap. Okay. Thank you very much, Michael. So I would try in one slide to summarize what we've been saying before I look a little bit into our focus areas. I think we can summarize what we've been saying about Q4 and the year in 5 points. We have, as an organization, Handled COVID well, and it has not limited us from continue to work with our strategic initiatives to bring future results, which has been very important for us. We have also taken measurements to make sure to compensate for the sales decline we have Seen in 2020, we are able to start 2021 in a sound way. And we have Already seen an improvement in that direction in Q4. So I think overall, we've handled the financial situation well in many different dimensions. And Michael goes through many of them from a balance sheet perspective. So we are getting stronger as of 2020 With an organization that is motivated and working tighter together and sees many opportunities for collaboration in the future. And That part might be even more important than anything else. So if we then looking a little bit forward And before we start the Q and A session, the business strategies are done within the business areas and together with both with the different brands. And on the group level, we have defined Four areas where we think that we as a group can make a difference in adding value. And these four areas are, as you can Here is our group core values, its connectivity, its sustainability and digital transformation. And today, I will focus on the connectivity group values and sustainability with a very short update on what we are doing. So first one is on the group core values. And I think we've all heard and know the expression that culture eats strategy for breakfast. And when we launched the new strategy with a higher emphasis on collaboration, it is also very important for us to work on the values and that will help us in this direction. Of course, we see when we look at the organization that we have a very It is a very open organization, and they're very open to change, and there is a willingness to work together. So I think we already have the right Prerequisites. And you see the quote here, which I think is a very good quote. It says, if you believe in people, you believe in value. So that's also very much the guiding staff. It has, however, though, been very important for us to make a bottom up process. We don't want we want this to come out and shape in the organization, so nothing forced on from a group level. So in 2020, we have made workshops with more than 100 managers in the organization to collect their feedback. And currently, we're in the process Rolling out what we did in those management workshops to all employees to get their feedback on the suggested The values that we have selected before we go ahead with implementation after the summer. And we also have since the beginning of Of January, we have a new Chief People Officer, whose name is Andrea Gaiei. She started in January. So she is the one who's managing this The project together with HR and the different brands. Then you have connectivity, where we have a group wide approach. And I think it said it's one of the other slides, but I want to highlight it as well. We had a good year in 2020 in connectivity with a growth of 79% as part of our solutions sales. And this is one of our long term investment areas. What you see on the picture here is from our center in Linkoping, where we have opened a second competence center. The other one is in Melbourne. This is taking us closer to our European brands and customers. And the connectivity agenda is also very, very closely related To our sustainability agenda. And with our dark winters in Nordics that we are clearly getting out of, our Product life cycle analysis shows that 70% of a lighting 75% of a lighting solution's energy consumption is during its usage. So if we have connected solutions that make sure that the light is on when necessary, that, of course, becomes very important. So then looking at the last slide, and you will see us when we go forward, we have Started with a very high focus internally on the sustainability side. So, I think every time you will hear us speaking from now on, you will hear about sustainability. And I think that the trend if you look in the markets, the trends and awareness about sustainability have accelerated enormously in the past year. So I'm very happy that we took a decision for such an ambitious mission statement, which we did in 2019. And you see it here on the slide. Together, we innovate to deliver professional lighting solutions that are circular and time positive and contribute to better life. And during this past year, we have appointed the sustainability officer, which is part of group management. And he's, together with the brand, working on the group's sustainable strategy and the action plan that we're going to take. We have also developed an approach for the group with the ambition to have a sustainability focus integrated In all our business areas and focuses, our function, so we believe that we have a big impact on the entire value chain. And therefore, we can make a difference all the way from supplier relationships in working with like minded partners suppliers through production and then bring our knowledge to our specified partners. Also reporting within the field, as you all know, We'll have an increased importance. And just to give you an example from our production facilities is that we actually already have so much solar energy in place in our different factories that we can run one of our biggest Production facilities entirely or we could run all of business area infrastructure with the solar energy that we are producing. So if we do this right, we also think that it will bring us opportunities. The focus from The European Union and also lately the U. S. Is very strong. So after the transportation industry, the building industry is 2nd biggest saluta. And if you look into buildings in Europe, there's only 1% of buildings that has undergone efficient renovation, And they're standing for 40% of the consumption of the energy. So there is no way that Europe will reach its Goal of being climate neutral without massive renovation program. And I think that will also that will mean business opportunities for us as well. So the last picture on here is also from Stockholm with very beautiful lighting in front of the Opera House. You can see here that we're doing our best to have you thinking about us when you walk around the city. And I think with that, we will End our presentation and we can open up for Q and A. So with that, I will hand over to the operator to see if we have any questions. In this section, we will only take questions on the audio and not from the webcast, something that we might change in the future. So this is the first trial. So let's see if we have any questions. Thank you. Our Our first question today comes from Max List of Kepler Cheuvreux. Max, your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Thank you. I have a couple of questions here. First, I guess, you indicate that you expect the markets to Recovered gradually, but given the current level of orders, SEK 1,500,000,000, SEK 1,600,000,000, you're still Well, below the SEK 8,000,000,000 you seem to target after the IGUSINE acquisition. But it seems that while you see an improvement, but when should we expect you to return to of the pre COVID levels. Hello? Hello? Sorry, I was on mute. I'll give you. I think that's the $1,000,000 question Yes, on that side of it. So I think we don't have I mean, what we see today, I think we're telling you what we're seeing. And we never give Any forward looking numbers, so we can speak about an ambition level, but it's we can't give you any Concrete numbers when we see that we will be returning to the €8,000,000,000 And then Michael, if you have anything you want to add on that? Yes. I did just a little bit to help Max with his understanding there. I think the wrong thing to do for this year, Max, will be to Set our ambitions too high on the top line because we see the COVID is still around us and it's still affecting some markets. You correctly point out €1,600,000,000 to €1,700,000,000 of order income net sales on a quarterly basis, that's been consistent now across And the last 9 months of 2020. So we're not going to pressurize ourselves into accelerating the growth agenda too quickly. We've you saw the words from myself on one of the slides. So at the moment, we cut our cloth and we embrace 2020 In a more prudent way, we're ready for dealing with 2020 in that more prudent way. However, we do see, As you've experienced, a little bit quarter on quarter, things slowly coming back. Q2 was minus 24%, as you know, And Q3 was minus 15%. And Q4, despite the sharp impact of the second wave, It was flat. So the impact of the second wave of the pandemic didn't deteriorate the numbers further. So we took that as a positive sign as we now move forward into the Q1 of 2021. And I think that's an indication that the world is The medical world is beginning to deal with the medical side of the pandemic better, but also ourselves and our peer group in terms of Supply chain and customers are beginning to find new ways of carrying on with doing business despite the pandemic. So We are looking forward in a healthier way, but not relying upon overnight return To growth levels. Yes, of course, we have €8,000,000,000 in our site to return to a pre COVID level as soon as we possibly can, but that will need the market to support that. But as Bodo says, We don't say we're going to be at €8,000,000,000 by such and such a date. That's not within our group chemistry to give that out. Okay, great. Thank you. And well, just Coming back to some issues that have affected other companies, and that's the sort of semiconductors and electronics and so on. Do you see any sort of supply chain issues in that area? Yes. We in the Q4 report, you'll see a line in there as one of the qualitative impacts from COVID. And what we see is quite varied, math that you see across there. There can be challenges in cardboard for Packaging, even recycled cardboard because of the amount of consumption that people like Amazon are doing for home deliveries. But there can also be sheet steel at the areas of sheet steel that goes into the fabric and the housing of our luminaire, Which is the automotive industry beginning to recover. And then when you talk about semiconductors, the particular question, Again, it's longer lead times and some cost pressures that we see, not significant on cost pressure side And quite rare, we've experienced 1 only so far from 1 supplier. But it's more to do with the lengthening of the lead time on semiconductors. And we are now being organized to provide longer term forecast to our supply chain to help meet that demand. So it's not The world is talking about it. It's not overnight a very significant problem like the rare earth oxide was in 2010 for the supply of fluorescent lamps. But it's definitely there and we're dealing with it in a good way. It is good that we have distributed manufacturing and distributed operations close to our large customer bases. But we are, through the group's operations, staying close to that topic. It's not it's there, but it's not I think it's significantly at this stage. Okay. And just a final one on while the infrastructure there you had then reversed or not. And is that sort of what you had made Cleaning up there, I guess, and this is sort of fully implemented there. Sure. Yes. That was It was the final year of the year 2020 was the final year of the year now relating to our Dutch acquisition of Veiko in 2018. So that is now clean and clear. At the moment on the group balance sheet, there's no more provision for earn out. So that was like you say cleaning and tidying of the balance of the Weyco burnout situation. Whilst I'm saying that, The Veiko business as part of infrastructure has been going very, very strongly during its 3 years with the Fagerholt Group. Yes. I think that's an important conclusion. It's been a successful acquisition. Okay, great. Thanks a lot. Thank you, Matt. No further questions at present. As we have no further questions, I'll hand back to the management team for closing. Thank you, Alan, and then thanks everyone for joining the conference call and the webcast and today's presentation. We hope to see you again at our Q1 presentation, which will be on the April 29. So again, big thank you for today. And thank you also from Michael Wood, CFO. As Michael said, look forward to seeing you again in about 90 days' time. Yes. And thank you from my side as well. And we're also open to your questions in the meantime until April 29, we are here. Thank you very much, everybody.