HMS Networks AB (publ) (STO:HMS)

CMD 2020

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Nov 18, 2020

Okay. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to slightly gray and cold hamster this morning, but a warm welcome to you and to the HMX Networks Capital Markets Day. My name is Thomas Carlson and I will be your host for this next 2 hours, 2 and a half maybe, depending on how much questions we get. So I'll be behind the screen taking any questions you may have during these next 2 hours or so. We have a package on there for you and I can ensure they have a very interesting next 2 hours. We have most of our corporate management team here ready to present to you. So during the next hours, we'll have a look at this. We'll have a short introduction by our CEO, Stefan Bolstad, followed by a strategic overview for the next 5 years by Stefan Hans Larsen, our CCO Joakim Liedborn, our CFO. Then we'll have a look into some technology, 5 gs business opportunities for HMS by our CTO, Jurgen Paul Hogger. And then have a look at the HMS Sustainability Plan by Joakim Asrock. Towards the end, we'll have a look at the financial overview and a short summary before we head into the Q and A session. So as I said, I'll be behind the screen taking any questions you may have. You can use the team live events Q and A function shoot any questions you may have. And we'll have a short break at the end, rearrange the room and then we'll have a short panel discussions with the questions that you have coming in. So once again, a warm welcome to Hans Stadt. And I'll leave the floor to our 1st presenter for today, Stefan Dahlstmann, who will introduce HMS Networks. Once again, welcome. Thanks, Thomas. Good morning, everybody. So let me give you a short introduction to HMS and what we do. I know some of you guys are new to the company and many of you are also quite familiar to our business. But we've also been changing our business partly the last couple of years and expanding our playing field. So what we do, we are connecting devices, systems and industrial machines. This means that we help our customers to connect their robots, their packaging machines or their industrial systems. For example, we have customers like the Swiss company, VAT, making vacuum valves for semiconductor manufacturing. They use our Anybus embedded technology to make sure that they can connect their valves into whatever semiconductor manufacturing line their customers may have. Another example is our wireless products, where we use our wireless technology to help customers making AGVs, automatic guided vehicles inside the manufacturing plants for automotive or maybe logistics centers to connect to both the control systems, but also the logistical systems. So these ATVs can move freely without cables. Thirdly, we also work with, as an example, with remote access of industrial machines, allowing machine makers and machine owners to monitor data from their machines without being physically close to their machines. So here we have over 300,000 machines inside our Torq Prem cloud system. So this is one of the leading IoT systems for industrial applications. And this is just free snapshots of our business. And all of them are quite similar when it comes to its B2B business, its industrial application, and it's really critical network communication. So it's important for our customers that their systems work 20 fourseven for now and for many years ahead. Looking at product portfolio, we have quite broad range of products and technology ranging from embedded communication technology to gateways to wireless products to remote access products to software and cloud technology. So all this is a quite broad range of products, a combination of hardware and software, and this is really what we focus on. We have 4 main brand, Anybus, Evon, Intesis and IXA, all with this individual strong product offer, but all their products and solutions are offered in a common go to market channel through our market units around the world. We also have 2 new areas coming in from acquisitions in the recent years. Web Factory, a German software company, adding more of a software content to our products. We can combine this with some of our harder products. And the newest addition, Procentec, Dutch company working with network diagnostic, making sure that you understand your network traffic and helping our customers to increase uptime and minimize downtime of their networks. Very exciting technology. So this is our product offer. And what we do with this offer is to target 2 industrial groups of customers. First, we talk about users, users of industrial automation systems. This could be food and beverage companies, pulp and paper, automotive, etcetera, users of these technologies. Here, we normally work with distributors, system integrators, different partners to access these end users of technology. And this is some 25% of our revenue. We also have a big business with makers of industrial equipment. And here, we work with the manufacturers of devices or machines. And we are becoming part of their bill of material or part of their solution that they deliver to users of industrial automation. And this is some 75% of our revenue today. So if you look at the company, as just a brief overview, We have more than 7,000,000 devices connected, running every day in industrial applications. So this make us a quite big company in this specialized niche of industrial communication. As I mentioned before, we have 300,000 machines connected through our Talk2M system. So we are really a leader in this remote access of machines. We focus on industrial communication and industrial Internet of Things, IoT. We are a technology company. Will talk later about 5 gs and what's going on there. But we also work a lot with AI, wireless technology, IoT and smart grid for energy distribution. So technology is very close to our heart and that's our DNA coming from a technology sector. As a company, we are almost 700 employees around the world. We have our own offices in 16 countries today, but we have partners and integrators in more than 50 countries. And we are headquartered here in Sweden, very beautiful normally very beautiful area of Southwest Sweden. But as you see today, quite grayish here in November. But we like this part of the country, and we enjoy being here on the West Coast. As a company, last year, we landed our revenue at SEK1.5 billion. We have a new ambition to double this, more than double it, to SEK 5,000,000,000 in 2025. Joakim will talk more about our financial goals. And our ambition is to keep our solid operating profit at around 20%. Last year, we had an earnings per share of SEK4.43 per share. So this is how we operate today. If we talk to our teams here, our managers, we made this word cloud survey a couple of weeks ago, and we asked our managers, what do you feel is the strength of the company? And as you know, the word cloud is expanding the words that many people select. And it's quite interesting to look on the strengths we have here. We have a solid existing business. We have a good reputation. We have a large customer base. We have good product quality, strong supply chain, good tech skills, and there's a lot of good things here. So we feel very confident now when we release our 2025 goals and going forward towards a more continued expansion that we have strong base of business. And you know this industrial world is a quite conservative world where a lot of things keep on moving in a slower pace than more consumer oriented things here. We have a strong position to start from. But how did we get this strong position? And let's take a look a quick look on the history of the company. Started in the late '80s, quite many years ago, with my partner, Niklas, and myself as a small startup working with engineering services and electronics back in the 80s. And we were fighting hard to find this new product that we should conquer the world. And it was quite hard a couple of years here. But back in 1994, we released the 1st real successful product, Anybus, that became an instant success. So since then, we saw quite rapid growth of the company. We took in new capital, new owners, and they helped us expand both the product offer, but also the international expansion. We started it especially in U. S, in Germany and Japan, which is still our 3 major markets. We had help from different shareholders. And back in 2007, we were making our IPO at Stockholm or NASDAQ OMX at $8.50 per share. And since then, we've been public. And slightly after the IPO, we got a little bit of headwind from the financial crisis. And you see this in the bump in the nice curve here on the screen. But quite nicely, we bounced back quickly, 2010. So it was a big dip, but also quite big recovery. And this is also what we see in the future when it comes to the slow business now. We expect the industry to pick up later because investments are normally not canceled. They are delayed for the future. So we expect that when things go better here, also the CapEx investment at our end customers will increase. Back to the history. Back in 2013, we started the 1st larger acquisition. We bought German IXACT, and this was a starting of our agenda for acquisition and in combination with organic growth. And since 2013, we have done 6 successful acquisitions, and one of them was Spanish Intesis. And Intesis was extra important since that they also helped us to take a step into the very interesting market of building automation. So this is one of our key markets since 2016. So we have a long history, but now we are 2020, a challenging market with corona. But our ambition is clear. We want to keep on growing. We have ambition to become the world's greatest industrial ICT company. And Hans will talk more about what this means. But we feel we have a strong foundation, and we have a good ambition for the future to keep on growing. How to do this? How to become the world's greatest industrial ICT company? Well, take a look on the coming sessions here, and we explain our plan. Our focus areas going forward, we have just from a high level view from the company, what we are doing is we are enabling valuable data and insights from industrial machinery. Okay, why do we do this? Well, this is quite important because this gives increased sustainability like energy savings and increased productivity for our customers. They get more data, more insights from their machines, from their devices and from their systems. And this helps them to increase their productivity and sustainability. So what we do is very important. This is our mission. HMS enables valuable data and insights, allowing our customers to increase their productivity and sustainability. So this is what we wake up every morning to think about, and this is what we want to do. Look at the strategic focus areas. We have 3 main areas that we would like to focus on. We have our environmental sector, very important for us. There are companies who want to reduce their emissions. There are even companies who want to have 0 emission. We have higher ambition than that. We want to have a net positive approach to this. We want to focus to become more than just 0 when it comes to emission. Joakim will talk more about the details going forward, how our environmental plans look in the coming years. Secondly, we believe that staff and customers are very important. We think that happy and high performing employees drive happy and loyal customers. This is very important for us. Sounds simple, but we believe this is where it starts. And the 3rd area, we want to continue growing. Important for us to combine growth and profitability. We believe that ambitious growth plans combined with good profitability drive us to be agile and flexible and really focused on the future. The targets we have here for 2025 for environmental is that we want to have a net positive external impact when it comes to CO2 emissions, but we also want to do that for internal purposes. This is not easy, and Joaquin will talk about how we measure this and what ambitions we have there. We want to make sure that our customers and our employees recommend us to their colleagues, to their other business peers. We want them to be a company that they recommend us. We want them to recommend us as a workplace or recommend us as a supplier. So therefore, we focus on net promoter scores. And we want the net promoter scores through our employees to be greater than 25, but also from our customers to be greater than 25. And we think this is a very strong measurement of our success going forward. Happy and high performing employees. Yes, no, it's loyal customers, very important for us. And finally, the financial goals. We want to reach revenue 2025 that exceeds CHF 5,000,000,000 more than CHF 3,400,000,000. We want to maintain a good profit level at 20% EBIT. And we also want to make sure that we can make dividends to our shareholders of 30% to 50% of EPS. So this is really the high level targets and our 3 key focus areas for our coming 5 years. With this, I would like to hand over to Hans talking about our playing field and where we are active on our markets. Hans, welcome. Thank you very much, Stefan. So we are active in 2 significant markets. So one is the industrial automation, the other one is building automation. But with the new strategy we have now, we are also expanding our playing fields a bit. So we say we have the targets to become the world's greatest industrial ICT company. So what is ICT? Well, ICT is information and communication technology. And we add the industrial parts to this because we are an industrial company. So when we look at the playing field, we will distinguish between 3 specific parts. So it will be control, information and infrastructure. So starting with control. Control centric applications are typically on premise control. It's industrial automation inside production lines, inside machines. It's real time. We talk about milliseconds, microseconds or communication to control production. Information is built on data. So it's acquisition of data and it's, of course, what you do with the data. So analytics, creating insights you need to optimize your uptime or doing preventive maintenance or whatever you have. And infrastructure is basically the data transportation, inside machines, inside systems or also up to cloud, etcetera. If we look a little bit more at the details on the control side, this is really the bulk of our revenues. We have about 70% of our revenues here. It's a market where we believe that market grows around 5% annually, and we are active in some sub segments here. We are really the market leader in network connectivity. Main driver in this field is Industry 4. That's a trend which you hear a lot about, and that's actually driving the development here. Slow moving technology wise in some parts, but always steadily moving forward. When it comes to the information side, here we have about 20% of our revenues. It's faster growing market. We believe it's in the range of 10% to 15% of annual growth. And this is typically where you talk about industrial IoT. So we are leader here in remote access solutions through our E1 brand. So we have both let's say, the access, but also the data acquisition and what we do with the data, dashboard, presentation, etcetera. And finally, we have also the infrastructure part of it. Here, this market, we believe, has a growth of 5% to 7%. It's the smaller of these three portions for us. We have 10% of our revenues here and it's primarily winning CAN Technologies, where we are really a leader in products for CAN. We also have an interesting opportunity here. It's early, but we're in an early adopter into the 5 gs arena. So let's move a little bit more into the details of this playing field, control information infrastructure and where do we actually have our sweet spots. And sweet spots for us, that's where we have a significant portion of revenue. So if we start from the left side here, we talk about embedded connectivity. And embedded connectivity is really where it started. It's our Enabas embedded offering. This is what we're really well known for in the market. Next sweet spot in the control side is network to network connectivity. We have a wide range of gateways connecting machines to each other and machines to, let's say, IT systems, etcetera. So these are end of our 6x up products and both the sweet spots are really focusing on the factory automation part. But we have another sweet spot in the control sector as well focusing on the building automation. So since 2016, we have NTSYS in our portfolio. And NTSYS has a wide range of gateways specifically for integrating air conditioning units into the building automation systems. So these are all 3 sweet spots in the control side. If we move into information centric solutions, we already mentioned remote access. Here, we are the real market leader. We have our E1 brand. And this is also where we have good opportunities to build upon the E1 success with additional IoT solutions, additional software solutions to create insights and make something out of the data. And lastly, a smaller dot here in our Chem Technology, this 10% of the business. We have our exact range of products. And the CAN, it's widely used in automotive industry. It's also used communication in various automation inside machines. So strong position, also showing a bit of a growth and something we can build upon. Within this playing field, within our sweet spots, we have good chances for organic growth. So these yellow circles here should symbolize that we are growing each sweet spot here. We have some growth drivers. So we have a good inflow of new design wins. So a design win for us is when a customer would design in our technology and their products. So for example, the Airbus embedded communication calls would be signed into a customer product and we live with a customer product. So it's a very sticky business model, which we like a lot. We can also work with market penetration. So we are represented in all, let's say, significant markets around the world, but we have, let's say, different penetration sweet spot in these markets. So we have a chance to work with market penetration in markets where we're already present. We have a good opportunity to add software and services. So on top of our Flexi, our Netbag Algo solutions out there in the field collecting information, we can build various software applications. We have our Web Factory acquisition which provides some technologies and some software we can build upon. So this is also a good opportunity to leverage the strength we have. And of course, we can do some selective market expansions. The last couple of years, we established representation in the Middle East region, in Southeast Asia, in Korea. So we are kind of eating up the white spots on the map, but there are some other areas where it could make sense to have a direct representation. Apart from our existing sweet spots, we can of course also establish new sweet spots and we have a couple of them in the making, which I would like to refer to here. So IoT solutions for users. You remember that Safa mentioned, we work with makers and users. Makers are makers of devices and machines. The users are where these devices and machines are being used on the factory floor, for example. We can see that a lot of companies, they have now machines with remote access from us, from E1. And they see the benefits, especially now with Grown as a driver that their suppliers can remotely access the machines to do maintenance, troubleshooting, and we see more and more of these customers looking for standardizing on remote access solutions, also giving opportunities to build IoT solutions on the data. So this is a nice opportunity, which we will explore further. We also have a lot of technology and we have a good relation to a lot of these device makers and machine builders. So the larger ones there, when they want to create their own IoT solution, they might not buy something off the shelf. They might build a solution and there we see a good opportunity to get designed into their IoT solutions with our technology. So as an example, Caterpillar has an IoT solution for remote monitoring of the power generators. And in that solution, we have a custom Netbiter product, which is an integrated part. So we see good opportunities to explore that further. Next one here, networks diagnostics. This is something which came in with acquisition of Procentec. Procentec works with diagnostics and troubleshooting on the factory floor basically for the users. So it's hardware and its services and its education. For us, this is really interesting. We have kind of never really made any business from the installed base out in the field, but here we have a chance to work with the end users, with the technologies. We might have delivered parts of it and actually create a good relation with end users in the business. So very exciting and interesting. And finally, we have what is not the sweet spot yet, but with a good potential. We have the 5 gs for industrial applications. And here, we have to emphasize, this is for industrial applications. We are well positioned. We have good partners in this area. We also have very good products for proof of concepts because that's what it is right now. And you will hear a lot more about this a little bit later from Jorgen. So with that, I would like to hand over to Joakim, who will talk a little bit more about mergers and acquisitions. Thank you. Thank you, Hans. Hello, everyone. So I'm actually going to continue using the playing field that Hans has introduced to explain to you our strategy for continued expansion with mergers and acquisitions. And this will actually be a bit of a bigger focus for us going forward. In the past, we've said that about onethree of the growth should come from M and A and now we say that 50% of the growth should come from M and A. And this is also why you have seen the dividend target being changed from being 50% to now give us an interval of 30% to 50% in order to finance these acquisitions. We have 4 main strategies that I will present to you today to do this. And let's start with the first one, which we call bolt on to core businesses. This is actually a new strategy for us that we haven't used in the past. We think that with our strong positions in the playing field, the sweet spot that you see, we think that we can find good complementary businesses to those businesses that we already have. And we will integrate them into the brands that we have. And with adding those new product lines or new solutions that it might be, we think we can gain more better market access to a specific vertical, could be a new geographic market or a new market segment that we're not actively today. So this is the first strategy that might not be the biggest one, but it's something that we'd like to utilize. The second one that actually is the biggest one, the one that we have known successful in the past and that we think we're going to continue doing, this is where you see we'll see most of our acquisitions being made in the future as well, would be strong new product companies. So this would be a company that is outside our sweet sweet spots, but inside our playing fields. So here we're looking for new strong complementing companies with strong offerings, good positioning in their niche of the business that we can add something to the HMS offering. In many cases, we see that we can utilize our sales organization to get this offer out on a wider geographic market That's proven successful in the past. So that's something that we're going to continue to work with. We think you will also see the bigger acquisitions for us being made here. And big for us would be from, let's say, €10,000,000 and up. And in the other areas, you'll probably see a bit smaller acquisitions. The 3rd area is what we call software solutions. And here we have we made our first acquisition within this area last year with WebFactory. We think Trans presented that we're going to work more with users. This we think will be a good access to the user market where we can supply a more complete offering, starting from the connectivity, going up to data aggregation and actually present the data to the user. This is interesting for us because we think this will add a new business model to us. Today, we had about 5% in software and recurring revenues. With these acquisitions, we expect to gain more recurring revenues and that will be very nice for our cash flows going forward. We don't know exactly how much this will be in 2025. We think we'll have more than 5%. We don't want to say a specific number because we just don't really know how far this can take us. But we think we will have a larger part of recurring revenues going forward. The 4th area, we call this technology to shorten time to market. And this will be you probably won't see a lot of these acquisitions, but we don't want to exclude the strategy. In many cases, we see that we have a strong offering. We maybe missed a piece of the puzzle to be able to present something completely new to the market if we then can find companies that has this technology that might be interesting for us to pick up. So I mean the main reason for these acquisitions will not be to increase the sales, it will be to get an IP that we're missing to speed up the time to market and to get better business opportunities because of that. You might also see us going into acquiring distributors. It will be very selective. We've done one of those acquisitions in the past. Last year, we acquired Roster Products in Netherlands. There are not that many opportunities of given reasons as most our distributors will carry a lot of brands. We will be one of them. So acquiring that type of distributor would destroy a lot of value and just doesn't make sense. But you might be 1 or 2 markets where it's interesting to do this. So we won't exclude it, but you won't be seeing it a lot. And we often get the question, so I mean a bit more specific what areas are you looking for. And I mean the quick answer is our playing field is what we're targeting, that's what we're going to look for. But just to mention some areas, we can say that we have the building automation space where we have instances today working with connectivity of air conditioning and we think there are more things to do. We also have some offerings with the web factory and energy surveillance that we think is interesting. So here we can definitely expand our scope and that's one area that we're looking to penetrate a bit more. We also have remote access where we have our E1 offering today and we're sure that there are other technologies, other applications that we're not reaching today that could be interesting that also we look for. There is a strong underlying growth in this area that we'd like to capitalize on. 3rd area would be into the infrastructure area, where we see there are many wireless technologies that we think will have a nice growth moving forward and then we can certainly expand our scope in that area by search of acquisitions. Okay. I also want to take you through our fundamental M and A criteria. So what are we looking for when we evaluate these companies? And we have 4 different areas. The first one is market and position. So I mean, we would like to make sure that the companies we go after, they have leading position within their market segments. That is very crucial. Those should be growing markets because without that it will be difficult to scale up these businesses. And of course, it's easy to fit with our overall strategy and our playing field. Then we have technology and supply. First thing, we need to have strong IP with any companies that we normally see with good gross margins And then that is very important for us and it also goes with a strong position in many cases. Since many of the companies we go after are a bit smaller, we like to also see that the supply chain is not too dependent on 1 or 2 suppliers. So that's something that we can work with to just reduce the risk of these acquisitions. Of course, we also need to understand the technology in order to be able to evaluate if this is something that we can work with. In terms of development potential, in many cases we go after companies that are founder led or with a management team that knows the business very well and it's often niche businesses. So that we have a strong management team is crucial for us. And we would like them to stay on and commit to continue to drive the companies. If it's founder led in many cases, it's important for the founder to have a good home for the company that they have founded. And then we would like to have growth story to it of course. We really need to see that there is a specific driver that will be able to drive the growth in these companies. And finally, in this area, that we can add some value. It could be that we open up our sales network for these companies, could be as we plan to do with the Procentec acquisition, we can present some of our IP blocks that they can use and deliver and develop further. And then the final area, financial performance. This may be the easiest one. We need to see that there is organic growth possibilities for at least 8% organic growth. We need to have EBITDA more than 15%. We have our EBIT target of 20%. If we don't acquire companies with decent profitability, will be difficult for us to sustain that margin. And then the final thing, we would like to acquire a majority stake, preferably 100%. But in some cases, it might also make sense to take a majority stake and have the opportunity to up to 100% at a later stage. All right. I think it's time for some 5 gs. Bjorgen? Okay. Thank you very much. So I will talk a little bit about 5 gs and how this new technology will contribute to bringing the industrial automation and the smart factories of tomorrow forward. It's quite exciting in our business to talk about 5 gs. It's a new famous technology that coming into our market. And this is not something that happens every day actually. So why is 5 gs so interesting for the industry? Well, we have now for a couple of years been talking about Industry 4, the 4th Industrial Revolution and all the great things that this will bring. But there has been an element missing and this is the technology that actually can make it truly scalable, truly mobile and truly flexible. So this is actually why 5 gs comes in. So with smart manufacturing, the targets are to drive efficiency in the industry, to drive cost optimization, but also increase the customer focus throughout the value chain production. This, of course, requires adaptation of new technologies, solutions and architectures, which includes 5 gs. Key requirements is still flexibility, mobility and, of course, reliability. Failure and downtime is definitely not an option within industrial manufacturing. And here, 5 gs shows excellent performance actually to overcome this compared to other wireless technologies. So since 5 gs has been designed with these requirements in mind from the beginning, this means that today the notion in the industry is that 5 gs will enable the last mile of the Industrial 4.0 Vision. And this is also one of the reasons, I believe at least, that it's predicted that the industrial applications will be one of the fastest growing applications within 5 gs altogether. So but it's easy to use terms like smart and so on. And I would like to begin to a little bit to explain what HMS sees in SMART and how we contribute to this moving forward. So taking a look on our playing field, we start with control. Well, to be smart, of course, you need a fully automated production and intra logistics within your manufacturing site. This includes, of course, material handling and warehousing as well. To do this, you also need information. And what this means is that you need both horizontal and vertical integrated value chains. Horizontal meaning machine to machine, system to system, device to device. This is an area where HMS has been very successful in the future. But now to make this smart, you also need the integration to the IT systems. So and this is normally called and or referred to as ITOT convergence. And of course, finally, infrastructure. You need a robust communication infrastructure that provides both wired and wireless services. And of course, what we see here is that when doing this, connectivity will still be a very key part of this. So industrial communication, connecting and bridging legacy system and open technology standards, industrial IoT, remote connectivity and security, all the things that HMS are doing today will still play a very, very crucial and vital part of the new systems of the future. But we also see new emerging architectures and solutions coming in. We talk about wireless and wired. We talk about this IT centric and OT centric dynamic solutions in parallel with the traditional static solutions that we have seen in the industry. We talk about intelligent new technologies like machine learning, AI and so on, in combination with a more logic control sequences we have been using in the past, and one for even more security. And here we see that 5 gs will actually be a technology and a solution that will contribute to all of these 3 parts here. So just talking about this last mile, so what we actually mean. A little bit more in technology. There are 3 main capabilities of 5 gs that is actually extra important for the industry. And if you take a look on the value chain from that material arrives at the factory until finished goods are leaving the factory, we talk about enhanced mobile broadband. 5 gs has the potential to provide industrial networking capabilities with speeds that are as good or even better as wired technologies today. And this, of course, means that all these data heavy applications like artificial intelligence and machine learning and so on will be able to run on top of 5 gs. The other one that is extremely important for the industry is what's called ultra reliable low latency communication, meaning reliability, of course, but also high speed communication or low latency communication, being able to talk to devices at millisecond accuracy, which is extremely important for control, like motion control, mobile robots and so on. And last but not least, the ability to connect a massive amount of devices. To do smart things, we need more information, we need more data. So wireless sensor technologies are becoming extremely important. But also doing things like intra logistics, you also would like to keep track of location and also keep track of where your assets are. So all these technologies combined together provides a very, very good scene to take the industry forward. But you could say that 5 gs actually takes in the benefits that we see with both hardwired Ethernet and traditional Wi Fi. So it has the flexibility and scalability. It has the high capacity that is needed. It has the low latency. It has the ultra reliability. And it's one standard in the industry today. And we see that we have a lot of different standards available. And this is actually one standard that can address and solve many of the use cases we are looking for in the future. And it has the possibility to operate in a licensed spectrum, which means that we know that in this spectrum, meaning frequency, we will only see 5 gs traffic. We will not see anything else. So there will be no other Wi Fi devices or anything like this interfering with the very critical traffic from the control systems. But as with all new technologies, when they enter the market, there are a lot of technology gaps that needs to be closed. And one thing is, for instance, spectrum availability. If you are going to run your own network, you need to have your own frequencies. And to this, frequencies in the air and spectrum availability is very, very hard regulated today. So activities are ongoing to open up, so industries can get access to their own spectrum to be able to run their own private networks. But with private networks also comes the challenge of these users to operate their own mobile network. And of course, this is where we have the operators and so on, so the telecom companies. So there are new discussions and new partnerships being aligned and new services being created around this. Interoperability is another thing. We need to make sure that the traffic that is required for the industry actually can run on top of the 5 gs technologies in a good way and reliable way. And in probability, it's extremely important because we will see a lot of old existing technologies that now needs to communicate over 5 gs. How can we assure that this still continues to operate in a safe format? And of course, not the least, affordability. It will be more expensive than traditional wiring we see today, but of course, we all expect that the benefits will be as big that you actually can afford this kind of investments that you need to do. And as always, over time, cost for new technologies will drop. But all of this also means that there is a lot of industrial devices on the market today, robots, machine, drives, controllers, sensors and so on, but it's not capable of communicating over 5 gs. And we need to provide solutions to make these devices come on to the 5 gs network. And this is actually one of the key parts that HMS is focusing on today. So this still even though we will address all these challenges, this does not mean that 5e will replace all existing technologies we see today. 5e, we will start to seeing them in new automation architectures and addressing the shortcomings of Ethernet and of course the Wi Fi systems we have today. So 5 gs will come in and solve specific solutions and so on before moving over to becoming more of a new technology that will replace what we already have today. But even though our industry is conservative, it takes time for new things to get established and developed. So we believe that 5 gs will coexist with wire technologies for a quite long time. And wires will still be used where it makes sense from a performance cost and architecture alternative like within inside of a machine, for instance. So when can we expect that 5 gs can come in and be a well start generating revenue and business opportunities for the industry? Well, you could say that it could be seen that it will become a mainstream technology for the industrial communication by 2025. Based on this is that it takes normally 5 to 8 years for new technology to become established. But it must be shown that these new technologies actually bring value and solve real world use cases in order to become this. But 5 gs definitely have all of these capabilities. So from a part where HMS is looking on today, we have 3, I would say, categories of users that we are addressing when we are now starting to work with 5 gs on the factory floor. And why do AonT uses? Well, they would like to overcome this static wired technologies, and they are looking into bringing higher flexibility into reconfigurable systems, mobile machine, automated guided vehicles and so on, and not the least, battery operated handheld tools. And for this, you need robust and flexible wire technologies like 5 gs. And it's not only in new deployment, so called greenfield, there's also big need to renewal of existing applications or systems in the factory, wholly brownfield deployments. And they do this all to address this new industry for requirements that are coming in. So use case number 1, the automation engineer, the guy on the factory floor. He is looking to use 5 gs to do cable replacement, to migrate systems that he has over to wireless, to capture new system data like introducing new parallel systems on the factory floor. And you might also have bought a new extension to his factory. So he needs to integrate new systems. Then we have the automation architect, the one who is thinking about the new architectures of the future really addressing the 4.0 requirements He's focusing on designing reconfigurable systems, looking into mobile machine, this battery operation and solving this impralogistics and positioning kind of applications. And the 3rd guy that we are working with is actually more of a digitalization consultant. He is looking to do IT integration over the factory floor. There's a lot of data needed to do doing this kind of smart analytics and so on. So measure, measure, measure trying to get out as much information from the system as possible. And of course, connecting machine and people and to do image processing and other high ends like augmented reality solutions and so on. So use case number 1, definitely a brownfield, an existing installation where you would like to do add ons using 5 gs. And this is driven by internal strategy directions to evaluate and use 5 gs. The guy in the middle, he is focusing on greenfield installations. He realizes the full potential of 5 gs and the value it brings to Industry 4. The last guy working on digitalization. Well, normally he does not he's not that focused on automation, but he definitely knows what 5 gs means and that he will do the job for him in his type of applications. So these are the real world challenges and the application use cases we are focusing on today and are active providing solutions to. So from HMS point of view, when we talk about 5 gs internally, what do we talk about? Well, we have been working with industrial 5 gs applications since 2018. We have and are still a very active member in organization and forums driving the industrial 5 gs agenda forward. We have formed our own 5 gs unit within HMS focusing solidly on industrial 5 gs products and services for smart manufacturing. And we have entered strategic partnerships with several of the 5 gs technology founders like Ericsson and others and are today doing activities on the market together. And as a result of this, we are a key supplier in several of the industrial 5 gs proof of concept installations that are taking place today throughout the market. And especially, of course, these are the guys that are going in the forefront of 5 gs are the, as usually, the automotive companies that is really normally the first ones to adopt new technologies and to adopt new automation architectures. And the real value we bring with this is actually that we do combination. We combine this new 5 gs technology with our existing industrial communication solutions. And by doing this, we really bring something that is unique to the market in terms of solution and innovation, I would say. So this is my short introduction to 5 gs, what we see for the future with this and also showing that there is a great potential for 5 gs moving forward. And if you are interested in learning more about this, we are very active in these areas. And I think already today this afternoon, we will do a presentation at the IoT Solution World Congress, which is a digital format this year, where Jens Jacobson from HMS will be presenting our 5 gs solutions for the industry. All right. That was my part. Thank you very much. Moving over to Joakim again, which is sustainability. Yes. Let's do that. So I think as you remember, Stefan presented 3 focus areas for us, one being the environment, one being our staff and customers and the third one was growth and profitability. And what we've been talking about so far mostly relates to the profit and growth part. And I'm going to now also talk about the environmental part and the staff and customers. And of course, we see a lot of demand from you guys, from the investment community to around the ESG reporting and to make sure that we do good things there. And that is important for sure. But the main reason that we are now focusing more in these areas actually that we first of all believe it's very important in the management team. We also see it from our staff, from our customers, there is a high demand to improve in this area. But that's not said that we're doing a lot of bad things today, but we think we can become even better and that's what we would like to do until 2025. So yes, to reiterate the targets, we would like to be net positive CO2 emissions in the internal perspective and external perspective. And I'm going to go through what we're doing to accomplish that, please some areas of it. And on the staffing customer side, we would like to reach the NPS above 25. So I'm also going to go through what areas we think would be important to achieve that. Let's start with environment. And first, just to put this in context, I think you're all familiar with Scope 1, 2 and 3, Scope 1 being the direct impact that we will have from our facilities, from our assets, Scope 2 being the indirect impact from the energy that we purchase and scope 3 being more or less everything else. So I think what we're going to do now is define what areas within scope 3 that we think would be most important and also tell you a bit about scope 1 and 2. We also will look in the upstream activities in our operations and in the downstream just to make it a bit more easy to follow. Let's start with the first area. We call this the internal impact because we think this is something that we actually within our power indirectly to do something about. If we start with scope 1, starting with our vehicles, today we have a fleet mostly consisting of diesel cars, which is not great. So we are now rolling out new policies to go over to only electric cars or at least cars with an electronic component. So we have could be hybrids in the short run, short would be electric cars in the longer run. Within our facilities, so we have mostly offices for we don't have a lot of factories. We have some production here in Halmstad. Otherwise, it's mostly office buildings. So it's difficult to say 1 or 2 things. There will be many small initiatives that we're working with to improve the carbon dioxide emissions in the offices. Looking at Scope 2, we have the energy part where we in our biggest sites today are using green energy. In 2025, that will be in all our sites. So that is something that we're rolling out, probably going to be done before 2025, but that is something that we believe is easy enough for us to do and that will have a good impact. So that's definitely something that we're going to do. Then going over to Scope 3, which is a bit more complicated because it's so wide. So we have decided to focus on some areas, at least in the first run, might be that we have an updated plan during this 5 year time since it's a pretty long time. But one of the areas that will have a big impact is our EMSs, our contract manufacturers. And here we are working together with them to see what we can do to reduce their footprint. And we think that we have many of the MS that we have, we are pretty big customers. So we think that we'll have a good chance of influencing these guys as well. The second area is the transportations that we have in the upstream activities. And here we know that there are green alternatives that we have in some places. We're going to make sure that we have that for all our transports going forward. The 3rd area will be our own traveling. And right now, we're not doing a lot of it, at least not by plane. We think there are some different things we can do here. I mean, first of all, what the pandemic has learned is that we don't have to travel as much as we've done in the past. So we think that we can actually reduce the traveling and use more digital tools instead. That is something that we're going to continue with also post pandemic. But also there are other options. So we can use green options instead of flying. In many cases, train would be feasible. So that we're going to try to use in more cases. And if we have to fly, which we still will have to do, just make sure that we climate compensate for those flights. Then looking at the downstream activities, we have the same situation with the transports, the same initiative goes for that. We also have the designs for products and the end of life use of our products. And I mean here we see when we work with the product designs, we use parts that can be recycled. We're happy enough to have parts that stay in place for many years, but still we will use parts that can be recycled, materials that can be recycled. And also we're working with the packaging material of the products to make sure that we use as little material as possible when we do the packaging. And then last but not least, which might actually be the most important thing, is the savings that our products will actually give when they are in use. And here we know that we have a lot of carbon dioxide savings from reduced trips from use, for instance, our remote access offering. You don't have to send the engineer out to the plant. So if we should do one single thing, it should be better design our products that will enable a faster growth, that will enable more customers to come out to connect remotely. That will be the main thing that we actually can do. So that's, of course, a main priority for us. So going over to the employees and customers, we have some areas that we think are of high importance here. We're going to start talking about health and development, which of course is imperative for us. So we would like to encourage a healthy lifestyle of our employees and make sure that we develop the staff so they have the latest skills and tools that they need to do a good job. And what we do here is we offer a lot of training opportunities. We have crossfit trainings during lunch. We have running groups and so on to make sure that people get moving to just get down the sick leave. It's a good thing for everyone. On the education side, we set aside a certain time of the year for each employee to develop their skill sets in the way they want, of course, and meet together with the management. Company culture, we are a small company that are becoming a bigger company. And what's important for us is to keep this entrepreneurial feeling within the group that people dare to take their own initiatives and that is something we're really encouraged to also try to spread this in the global organization that we have. A third area is leadership where pilots might not say too much to you. This is our leadership tool that we use. We have P for passion, I for initiative, L for leadership, O for organization and T for top priority growth. This is something we work with all our managers to develop in these different dimensions. We have local sessions going on all the time. We have also global initiatives where we collect our managers every year to make sure they get the last the latest updates what's required and what we'd like to do to develop within. So that's something that's important for HMS. Then we have diversity and equality. Some of these things are probably given to you. It's given for us that you get the same pay for the same job, everybody has the same opportunities to develop in the company regardless of gender or where you come from or whatever it might be. This is completely given for us and something that we work extremely much with. In terms of diversity, I think we have now about 30 different nationalities within the group, which is not that bad for the size of company that we have. But what we see is our different sites are still quite homogeneous. So here we think we can can actually do more and more work to get more influence in the different sites. And we also have today it's male dominated industry. We have about 12% female managers, which we're not happy with. We've set a target for 2025 to reach 20% female managers, which you might not think is super aggressive, but we feel we need to start somewhere and we don't want to fire a lot of people just because their demand that will feel a bit bad. So we think this is a good start to get to the 20% and from that we can set a new target. Then being a responsible tax payer, I think you see a lot of companies being super intelligent in how they set up the structure to pay the taxes in Ireland. We're not that interested in that. We would like to pay the taxes where we have our business and be a fair citizen. So that is a key of our DNA and something that we're going to continue to do. Last area, ethics and anti corruption. First of all, I think we would like to be a fair business partner to our employees, to our customers, to our suppliers and that's also within our DNA. And to make sure that we keep on track, we have our code of conduct and where we have updates regularly and we make sure that the staff gets training and they need to do tests to make sure that they've understood the different parts there that's in there. Also, we have a supplier code of conduct that we will ask all our suppliers to comply with and we will of course audit them on this as well to make sure that they stay in compliance. Okay. Finally, around the sustainability, I think what we presented to you now is our ambitions within this area. We think that we especially in the environmental part, we have pretty strong ambitions as you see. We don't have all the answers yet how to do it. We still have 5 years to go to this level. So we're pretty sure that we will come up with everything that needs to be in place until then. We would like to encourage you to follow us in our sustainability report on our way to our objective. What we're going to try to do is to be a bit more crisp and show some more KPIs on where we're going, how we're developing going forward. So you can follow us also in this journey. But take it as the ambitions and that we are working with some areas, we're going to add more and we want to make sure that we reach those targets by 2025. All right, that was sustainability. I'm going to continue now with a financial overview, and I will start with a few slides on the last decade. So I think many of you have seen this slide before. We have during the last decade, we have achieved 18% CAGR. And starting from 2010, which was a good year after the financial crisis with 41% growth versus 2,009. So it's a good base here to start from. During the time, we had made 7 successful acquisitions. We made IXAT in 2013. We made Intesis in E1 in 2016, Beck in 2018 and WebFactory in RASTR in 2019. And then you know Avid is not visible in the graph, but we made percentic now just 2 months ago. So at the end of Q3, we had 4 main brands. That would be Anybas, IXUP, E1 and Entasis. And as you see, Anybas being the base business of HMS where it all started, this is still by far the largest part of the business with 56% of the total sales. We have IXA being 12%, E1 21 and Entasis being 8% of the sales. So I think this is where we still have our main businesses, percent will get in there as well being around 10% a bit less maybe. But then you might wonder, okay, so how did we achieve this growth? What was organic? What was M and A and so on? I'm going to try to explain that to you as well. So starting off, we have here 20 10, the 345,000,000 going to 2019, the €50,000,000 19,000,000 As you see, €587,000,000 is organic growth in this period being 12% CAGR. Then we have also the acquisitions, which adds €412,000,000 if I count rolling 12 month sales from the time of the acquisition. So in total, that will take us to a 16% CAGR. We've also had a very favorable currency development in the period adding another 2 percentage points in terms of CAGR, SEK175,000,000 that takes us to a total of the 18% CAGR. And what's also worth mentioning, I think 2020 was actually the 1st year from 2013 where we have negative where we will have negative currency impacts on the business. So as you see, we've had a good tailwind from the currencies, but now we will not be that way this year. And just to put it in perspective, we have 60% of our sales in euros and 25% in U. S. Dollars. So that was the last decade. Now we're going to zoom in a little bit on the last 5 years to see what's happened during that time. So I'm sorry for the busy slide here. We have we are showing the net sales per quarter divided per brand. And I think there are some interesting things to comment on related to this. First of all, we'll always get the question, what about the seasonality in sales? And we don't really have a lot of seasonality in our sales. As you can see also between 2016 to mid-twenty 19, we had a pretty solid growth every quarter. So we think it's easier to evaluate our business on a sequential basis than on a year by year basis. What happened there in mid-twenty 19 was that we saw declining investments in the underlying business in factory automation, which impacted primarily Anybus and Ixad, which started to see a decline in order intake and sales during that period. And then we'll talk about this later, but that also caused us to put a restructuring program in place. So the growth drivers during this period has been the remote access offering with E1 and the building automation offering with Infosys. But despite even if they continue to grow after mid-twenty 19 that couldn't make up for the declining business in Enbast and Ixa. And then of course in 2020 everybody knows what's happened. What will be interesting to look at is also we have during this period we had group CAGR up 17% where currency actually helped us 4% of that. But then looking at the different brands, we have in this period, this is also adjusted for any M and A, so this is without any M and A impact. Anybas grew 10%, IX at 9% CAGR, E1 21% and Intesis 29%. So what I would like to say here is that, I mean, first of all, you see that all the acquisitions that we have made, we actually managed to scale up the growth on all of them after the 10 of the acquisitions. So I think that is very positive and it proves that we actually have a good strategy for how to integrate and how to use the sales offering, the sales force to get these offerings out in the wider markets. Then let's go down to P and L talking about gross margins for a while. So as you can see on the trend line, the yellow course here, we we have improved our gross margins over the period. We are now around 62% and this is in a year when a lot of things actually work against us. We have lower volumes, we have currency effects working against us in the gross margin side. But with some internal efficiency in supply, we're doing a good job there to take out some costs and with some selected price increases, we can still expand the margins to the 62%. I also would like to point out that a weak Swedish krona is working in our favor. So it's positive for our gross margins. And one reason to that is that we have pretty big part of the manufacturing overhead in Swedish crown because we have all the overhead team in Sweden. Then we have looking at the different brands, what we can say is that most brands are in very similar levels in terms of gross margin. The exception would be the embedded business, the embedded custom business that we have within Anybus, which is normally bigger volumes and a bit low margins. That is also helping us with a few parts of the percentage points this year through 10ths of the percentage points. And this might work against us in the future when we scale up the business again, when investments comes back this will then limit the gross margin expansion. So we think that 62% is a fair level for us to be in the future as well. What you see in 2018, the drop in gross margins there for a few quarter is mostly dependent on the Beck IPC acquisition, took us some time to get an integrator and to fix those things. And then in Q2 2019, we had also acquisition of WebFactory that helped the gross margin a little bit. All right. Let's continue down to operating expenses. We have, as you can see, for the period 2016 to 2019, we had OpEx growth pretty much in line with sales growth. And then we had, as you saw before, the drop in sales down to 2020. And what we did here in Q3 2019 when we saw this, we immediately put in place a restructuring program to take out SEK 45,000,000 on the run rates, which is now done. Everything has gone according plan and we're ready with all those things. What I also would like to say if you look at the OpEx per function, we have the sales and marketing being about 22% to 23% of sales is pretty much the same over the whole period. Admin is between 8% to 9% of sales and R and D is between 12% to 13% of sales. And you can see that this is pretty stable over the whole period and this is where we expect to be going forward as well. And we think that we will need those R and D investments in order to have a successful offering that we can continue to grow within the future. What you will see us do a bit differently maybe is we'll be a bit more selective on the open expansion post pandemic. So we'll not invest in all the areas that we've done before. We'll make Eiram a bit more careful there. Okay. So all of this comes down to the operating margin. You know we have our target of 20% and that was the same target as we had before. We're still keeping that target and we've been on around 18% for the last few years. We think that we should be able to go up to the 20% now. And we have the restructuring program in place. We have the pandemic impact this year that is helping us to actually reach 20%. That's where we are year to date. What you'll also see here is that we have a bit of a seasonality effect. We have Q3 always being very strong. We have vacation effects in there, so giving us lower OpEx. And in Q4 is quite often quite bad for us, which is because we have the marketing investments in terms of many fairs and trade shows that we go in the Q4. In terms of what will help us to get to this target is, of course, the sales growth coming back. We're going to continue to get cost control. We're going to have a more selective OpEx expansion and the solid gross margins. All of this should take us from this 18% to 20%. I also would like to show to you, yes, the EBIT sorry, the EPS graph, which I think is quite positive. We've seen a growing EPS despite the decline in top line this year. And we think we are in a pretty good position to continue the EPS expansion. And then we have cash flows and cash conversion, which is one of the things that I think we've been doing pretty well in this period, which is one of the key things for HMS continued growth strategy. So as you saw, we expanded the M and A growth to be now 50% of the total growth. This will be one key to achieve that. In 2017 here, you saw we actually achieved 18% organic growth and still could have almost 100% cash conversion being defined here as cash flow from operations divided by EBIT. During 2018, we had an inventory buildup, which put some pressure on this for us. We had some component shortages that led us to take on some more components in inventory. Then we had in 2020 very good cash flows. And I mean the main reason for that is that we have lower demand which actually makes that we can take out some working capital and then get the upbeat cash conversion. Okay. So I also would like to add that besides what you don't see on the graph, we are a pretty CapEx light business. We have R and D investments that would normally be somewhere between 2%, 2.5% of sales. We have fixed assets that will be less than 1% of sales normally. We have some investments in our facilities in Halmstad that we need to do in the operations. Otherwise, it's still a bit of IT, but not much more than that. So all of this, you can see also the net debt EBITDA, how that has developed through the acquisition journey the last couple of years. I want to start by saying that we have RCF of €45,000,000 that we currently utilized a bit less than 50% And we have a covenant that is on 3 times net debt to EBITDA to towards the banks. But to see what's happened during the period, we acquired E1 and indices in 2016. So we went up a bit in leverage pretty quickly coming down as you see here. Then in Q3 'eighteen, we had around Beck going up a little bit again, then down and up with the WebFactory and Roster in Q2 2019. And from that, you've been seeing that we've been able to amortize a lot. And one thing that's behind that is, of course, we didn't give a dividend in 2020. And now within percentech, you can't see it in the graph, but I think we expect to close the year somewhere around 0.5, which also of course leads us in a very good position to continue making acquisitions. Over time, I think we expect to be somewhere between 1 and 2.5 net EBITDA. So I mean, if you would like to discuss more details, you're always welcome to contact us. You can also reach out to one of these to you guys. I know those very well. We have Fredrik with Nordea, Viktor with Aske Bank and you are working with DNB can help you understand the business better. Thank you, Joakim. Great presentation. Okay. Let's make a summary before Q and A. And not easy to summarize all this comprehensive information we've been sharing today. But as a quick summary, we have 3 main areas. We talk about our environmental focus, making HMS a net positive CO2 company by 2025. That's an important ambition we have. Secondly, keep on working with our employees, making sure that our employees are happy and high performing so they can generate good business and create loyal customers. And as Joakim described very clearly, we have growth ambitions. We come from a solid foundation. We have good situation today. We have good ambition going forward. And as Harr explained, our playing field still leaves us a lot of room for growth going forward. And we have a good organic ambition and good M and A ambition. So these are our 3 focus areas when we set our targets going forward. But let's look on this boilerplate we had from the beginning. As I said, we have our 3 areas: environmental, staff and customers, growth and profitability. We are a tech company. We will continue working with technology development related to 5 gs, related to IoT, related to wireless technology, AI, smart grid. That's important for us. That's our future. But you also see what Harald explained in the playing field. Even if we have a quite, I would say, a business to business in this industrial field, that's quite conservative market, but it's also a playing field with a lot of room for expansion. We have our control. We have our information. We have our infrastructure section. But you saw in our sweet spot, we have good ambition to grow our sweet spot, but there's a lot of empty areas between our sweet spots where we can actually expand through organic growth, but also through acquisitions. So we're quite confident that this playing field is enough for us for the coming years to come to keep our growth targets. And our growth target is to make sure we exceed our SEK 5,000,000,000 revenue to 20.25. So that's beyond SEK 3 point 14,000,000,000. We would like to maintain our operating goal of 20%. As you saw on the curve from Joakim, we are almost there. And NPS larger than 25%, that's important for us, but also being a net positive when it comes to CO2. So, this picture we have here, this is what we, in our management, take forward and this is what we wake up with every morning and this is what we run for. So we are quite excited about the future. We have a good plan. We have a good market, even if right now, it's a bit depressing. But we look ahead. We have a long term perspective, and we are quite confident for 2025. All right. We will open the Q and A session in 5 4, 5 minutes. Maybe it's time for a leg stretcher. Grab a coffee. Hang on here. And we just rearrange the tables and keep on posting your questions to Thomas. And we bring up as many as possible in the following sections. So have a good coffee and see you soon. Thank you. Okay, everyone. Welcome back to the Q and A section. We will take some very good questions that we received during the next 2 hours. So you still have time to ask questions as we go through these Q and A up until 11 around. One question that's been coming in a lot is if this presentation will be recorded and distributed afterwards. And yes, will be distributed as a PDF on the website and also a recording will be available. So let's dive into the questions here. First one, I think this is for Hans. In terms of the it's from Joachim Gennel from DNB Markets. In terms of the potential sweet spots you mentioned, can we discuss the growth drivers in more detail in terms of which are the most important segments to drive the bulk of your 2025 target growth? Where will your attention be as a management team? Yeah, that's a good question. When we look at the control the bulk of our business, it's 7% of our revenues today. So even if the growth percentage wise is a low adaptive to the bulk of revenues. The drivers here is, of course, increased automation in factories and innovation, increased, as I said, normally the content also in individual fossilized machines. So pretty solid drivers which we'll be confident with. And then the growth rate is the highest in the information side of things. There we have a very solid base position with our E1 foothold, 300,000 devices connected in the cloud. Here we see a good potential. We see that the market is moving really from connection only to data. So we bring data out of these devices. We bring it to the cloud. We have, in the last 2 years, established a solution partner program with partners who put applications and thought using the data to create insights. And we have also added WebFactory software, which is a component here for ourselves to also add more of the application side here. So here we will see a really good growth rate. It's an area where we as the management team spend a fair amount of time of course. But I would say we need to be all over the place and focus on all our sweet spots. I mean, we have business which is not in the sweet spot today. So we have kind of defined these sweet spots to know where we need to spend our attention. I think that's it. The next one is I think for Jorgen. Where are your current priorities from an R and D standpoint to execute the technology shift you see? Well, from a technology, if we go back and talk about 5 years and so on, that's a true novel technology that is coming in. Trevor, let me start with this. Our market has always been changing. There's things going on every time there's technology shifts going on. We have a quite good established setup for handling this with both initiatives within our local business units where they're focused on their application areas and technology areas and so on. We also have a centralized approach where we treat call HMS Labs where we look at truly emerging technologies that will take a couple of years to be established, where we do a little bit of incubation and trying to bring this technology out in a more packaged format to the business unit. But when it comes to 5 gs, for instance, in our industry, we must remember that when new technology ends that has the potential to change the way we do it today, it's really, really important that it's done in a collaborative of companies and partners. So that's not only one company that can drive us. And our focus today is actually to be very active within this venues and organizations, bringing this out via an active contributor to this because no company by itself can establish new technology. We must make sure that we have this in probability that we have this setup and that the users actually the end users of the factory owners and so on actually can trust the technology that it's truly a multi vendor technology that is coming out. Thank you. Right. Next question here I think is for Hans again. And it seems as if COVID has a greater premium on software transformation and being able to do more remotely and not be on every single point of contact in the factory or plant or have sent out a team to diagnose the customer. Is this still seems as a very fragmented market, but how do you think about HMS Network to position to capture the demand opportunity from a remote monitoring? Yeah, that's totally correct observation. I mean, the main driver for remote access in the past has been the machine dealers. They do machine basically somewhere in the world. And then they do remote access to maybe commission the machine, fine tune it or troubleshoot whether it are products. The driver there is the warranty time of course because machine dealers would happen to pay this during warranty time. And then post warranty, they can charge for a trip, so at least buying an engineer. Now with Corona, I think that's been quite a lot of focus for the asset owners here, the machine, let's say, the factory owners that when the production line goes down, even if you pay for it, you might not get the service engine that kind of fixes. So we see increasingly that factory owners are interested in remote access but also concerned about the security aspects of how the account balance connecting into the factories. So for us, we have a very secure solution. We have, for example, the company like Nutrien in Netherlands, they have a group's M and C, they have plans all over the world, a standardize now on E1 devices for remote access and they will be in charge of which supplier can access which machines at which time. So this is clearly a potential for us. We talked about this week's box in the making where we talk about user IoT and this is clearly a move for us to start talking to these end users instead of talking to only the machine that is like we did in the past. So long answer to a short question, but it's a correct observation and we're moving on that. Thanks. I think the next one is the German, so you can talk about greenfield and brownfield. How large share of sales today is driven by greenfield and newbuild? And how much is more downfield? Well, it's this is quite hard to say because we when we are focusing on the users that actually are the brownfield or the greenfield, the application space, we have a very small part of our sales today focusing on the users of Zelle. You mentioned the percentage for the price. 75.5. 75.5. 75.5. And when we supply to makers, this is our recurrent revenue for us. These makers and their company, they sell either the brown field or the green field. So it's really hard for us to determine this. But to be quite honest, it's really, really seldom that you see that the brand new factories being built at Roundup. Today, you do a lot of modifications, you do rebuilds, you do extensions. And this could actually be seen as brownfield, I would say. Okay. We have a question about sweet spot, we talked about that. I think this is for you, Joakim. How large share of sales is software and how much is service in the same? So today, if you say without if you don't take percentage into account, we have about it is total 5% that is recurring and most of that is software sales. We have very little bit of service offering today. We presented AQC being they have a bit of a body share in service offering. So if we do that, it may be fifty-fifty. Okay. Right. Okay. Question about the Procentec acquisition. I think this can be a brief step on. Regarding the progress in software and off market transition, in what way would you say that the Procentec acquisition will be will strengthen your aftermarket business to tap into an installed base of the 7,000,000,000, any of us device that you have in the strategic. What's the strategic reasoning behind making this acquisition now? We have seen that we want to come closer to users of industrial automation systems. We have a huge base of installed units, but we have not delivered them to the end users. We have delivered them to machine dealers, the device manufacturers, and then they end up in this end user application. And we see a lot of value in these systems because they need to work 20 fourseven. And if that doesn't work, there's a lot of lost value for the customers. They're willing to be proactive here, and they look for how can we maintain our uptime in the network. That's exactly what Percepta is doing. They started with troubleshooting tools when things does not work, how to fix it. Now that we'll need more predictive tools to make sure we can plan, okay, when will this not work? How can we be proactive in solving these things? I think this helps us to grow with the user of industrial automation, high value type business, but we also use our IPs because it's the same IP that is used for monitoring the network that actually could create the common gate from the engine. You see a lot of synergies in the technology that they open up a new door towards the users. So it's quite a bit of a risk. Right. Thank you. The next question here is kind of 2 sided. So maybe if you start with the first, who are your main competitors today? Maybe that's for Francois or Stefan and then more to Jorgen. Where are your what do you see potential emerging competition given the IoT and 5 gs trends? As maybe in stock with the main competitors today. We have several different spot reports. I would say that we have different competitors in different sweet spots. So this is a fragmented marketplace. We don't really have a head to head competitor in our playing field. But in the embedded communication sweet spot, we have competition with substitutes such as microprocessors that is easy to deploy, you do it in house instead of using ATMs. We have a few mainly German smaller competitors like the great company called Eacher that is a competitor to us in that industry. Within network to network database, there are another set of smaller competitors, etcetera, etcetera. So I think this is a very fragmented marketplace and we don't have a fear this is our main competitor. We have a lot of competition, but it's fragmented and it's different in the different response. But we can see in an area like remote access where we're clearly marketed and this is a market where it's becoming increasingly competitive in the base functionality remote access. But then obviously we try to be step ahead with our data collection and dashboarding and whatever we deliver. So hopefully we'll stay ahead there. But yeah, competition is sound. It shows that there is market. Going more to the technology side and the parking, Adi? So of course, with new technology, there's also new players coming around. And of course, there are small in the start up with new IDs and so on, but they might not be the real challenge here. What we see is, of course, that the larger IT companies, the larger companies from the IT side is moving in and stepping in and taking a look at the industry. You have companies like Microsoft, there are companies like Cisco and so on. And of course, they will actually, of course, generate competition in these areas, Maybe not from going in and doing industrial automation, but being able to be a technology provider or a backbone provider or an architectural provider and so on that enables Alper to become competitors straight from us. But we have seen the, of course, activities from these kind of companies. And of course, when you take a look at the infrastructure, 5 gs is coming in. Of course, the guys that are delivering 5 gs infrastructure to the commercial side, of course, they're also looking into the industry side like Ericsson and so on. This is not really competition for us. We are not in the space today. We see this more as a potential of having partnerships and actually being to go together to the market to provide a better offer. But of course, with new technology and with the move that we're now leaving our safe OP domain and also moving into the IP domain, which might be much more fast moving and so on, these companies that are active there will, of course, competition going forward. In our industry, we're going to approximate a factor towards almost impossible for 1 company to solve all applications in that factory. Great companies like Siemens and ABB, fantastic company with BTU, part of a problem. But even these companies, like Siemens, cannot solve all applications. So in the industry, it comes from a it's quite natural with this kind of cooperation and you need a multi vendor application because you select the best robot and then the best this and the best that for your process. I think this is what we see over the 5 gs is that it's a mix of commercial companies coming in that we use to dominate the state. But there's so much multi connectivity underneath that. So this is 2 different industries that we merged to make this happen. I think that's what we've seen, we've got a good collaboration between us and companies like Zeeb as an ABB and Ericsson and Rockwell as Cisco. So I think we have seen the start of having these collaborations. And as I said, industry has always been a market. It should be multi vendor. It should be interoperable. Competition is, of course, something, but we use the term frenemies as well. We need both to be a little bit of friends in order to develop a standard moving forward. On your own, you can't do this. We need to work together. Okay. Moving a little bit more on the financial side. I think this is for Giulio Achin from Dogen Hoonhill at TD Markets. On the topic of the EBIT margin improvement, you're already at 19 percent versus your 20% medium term target. So I'm just wondering from your point of view, how much room for increase is there? Should your new adjacent services and the growing software mix be active on the margin side? And can you talk a bit about some of the key levers that you can pull? Okay. So let's start by commenting level of EBITDA at the moment. So year to date, we're actually at 20%. And then I think we are seeing a lot of onetime effects. We are running extremely lean for the moment at the moment with no traveling, no trade shows, no customer events, also some short term work impact especially from Germany. So I think the current OpEx level is not at all sustainable. We're going to be very clear with that. And if we're going to be able to sustain the high single digit organic growth, which we would like to do with our new target, we will need to add on some resources from the level that we are today. So I think you will see the OpEx expand. We're going to see the market coming back. Right now, we are careful in what we take on. So we would not be able to have this 20% margin with this top line development in normal circumstances is yet to also have a very special effect this year. So we still have some work to do to get to the 20%, then complementing acquisitions and we hope that we'll add to that. It makes up for acquisitions that will also help us a little bit to increase the margins. That is one part of the recipe also to get to the 20%. So I have to say that under normal circumstances, we don't do this 10% to get there. So we'll need to make some things better in future to actually reach 20%. What levers we control, I think we are of course adding some parts to the economy at scale. We don't necessarily see that we will have the number of resources to supply that is in relation to the new sales that we get. So there we think we'll have some operational leverage that also will be part of driving us to the 20% growth. Maybe also on that insight where we can see some leverage on in the central resources that we go forward. I think that's about it. In terms of R and D, we still think there will be a summer 12% of sales going forward, but also those are the new acquisitions that we do. So we don't necessarily see that there will be a lot of leverage to gain from that. Was there anything I missed on that? I think in both the levers and So more questions about emergency acquisitions coming up. So the first one here, could you maybe this is the spot one. Could you elaborate a bit on the go to market strategy with the acquisitions and how you have been able to accelerate the growth in the acquired units historically? That we have. I think we've done a couple of mistakes and we've done we've learned some lessons. But I think when we buy these kind of companies, they're all very successful. So I think sometimes we need to make sure that we do the right things. In general, we've been trying to integrate them in our sales organization that's been successful. But we also saw we acquired the Infosys 20 16. They were also very successful in a different area where we did not have sales. We're very careful in how we expanded that. It took us 3 years before we started to integrate the sales organization. 2nd course, we learned really to be careful. We don't count a lot of synergies short term. We want to make sure that these successful companies can be even more successful by some help of HNS, But we are not really forcing something on them. We would like to collaborate with them. And this is what we see now with Presente. And there we own only 70% It was to work with their managing team. And we tell them, let us know if you want to start an office in the US. We already have this infrastructure that we try to coach them instead of telling them what to do. So I think this is what we learned to make sure that the local management team are really in the driver's seat. But I think we're also seeing good synergies within our sales organization. We're also seeing good synergies from a technology point of view. We'll have a common technology platform going forward. But this takes years to do this. And we are quite careful in how we do these things because the companies we buy are good companies from beginning. We don't need to trust one that we need to help them become either. Okay. Thank you. And both some more questions on mergers and acquisitions. The M and A ambition implies a higher pace than historically. What are the key challenges to achieve this? Would be interesting to hear about your equity in sourcing. How do you work with finding targets and some numbers on the number of potential targets? And also, I think maybe we'll break the question there. Okay. First part of it. I mean, one of the main challenges, I think to find good targets and to actually be able to close those targets. That's the main thing. Even if you see a lot of companies, not all of them will be the same. So that happens sometimes in the discussions quite often. I will say, yes, we'll act a few process, but we're not to say right now. The structure we have or the different sources, I think we try to use every different sources that we can. We use we talk to the bankers that approach us. We explain to them what they're looking for. Sometimes we get leads that make sense that way. We also get a lot of proposals from different brokers around the world of companies that they believe with HMS. However, I think the main strategy that's been successful for us is actually through our own channel with the companies that we know that we meet in the trade shows that we see in the space, so to say. It could be in most cases, I think it's been now with the staff on context in many cases. But with this open initiative that I discussed before, we also see that our business units that also know the specific companies in the different sweet spots. We expect them to bring a lot of new leads into the pipe as well that they can continue to work with locally. That will be a new source to the mouthfuls I think. And the last part of the Frederic's questions there as well. How is the competition looking in terms of other buyers? And also, what do you think the valuation models will be on average? Okay. That's a good question. So the competition, I think it's different. Our primary channel, as I said, would be to the final scores ourselves to coach them when they're not on the market, so to say. And we find in that case, we don't really have a competition. We'll be alone about the deal and we think that is very good if we can have that situation going forward. I think on the broker sold companies, normally competition is quite high. Many companies are bidding and also depends a little bit where we are in the cycle. I think now it's been the call for a couple of months. It's coming back now after the summer and we see more companies coming out and more people are willing to buy at this point. About the valuation multiples, I think most of the acquisitions that we make, we expect to pay around 10 times EBITDA and could vary plus minus maybe 2 times depending on exactly where they are and the underlying growth in that field. Something that will be different though that we've learned is the software companies, software companies that are more expensive and we will try that and in some ways we will defer a few of those companies this year and we work well. So I think we just need to accept that we're going to grow for that type of business, to the return revenues, we need to pay high multiples. Think we'll be prepared to do that from the final perfect fit as well. But yes, they will be different from those. Thanks. And more about the name of this business, could you expand on the verticals you find attractive for M and As? You mentioned building automation. Could that be a competitor to any places or rather an adjacent segment? And what would be a good vertical with an energy? So, we already mentioned some of the work for team automation. There we think there's a lot of nice opportunities to build around what we have done with the indices. Also, there's a lot of drive for energy savings and asset management and these kind of things in this more industrial or larger buildings. We mentioned also energy. We are doing an initiative within Omnia and Agro within Smart Grid. We have some really nice products, how to communicate between any distributors and things like this. And there, we believe that there's room for acquisitions that can really build that area because we see some nice areas, industrial applications there. Geographically, I think we would like to do something both in Asia and in U. S, but our focus on targeting on the Continental Europe or Nordic area. But of course, we think that in Asia, it will be nice to grow faster than on the organic. And on the U. S. Market, we feel that there's much more things that could be done. I think we are looking quite broad at the moment. So it's not so specialized. We are outsculpting in all these areas. Logistic automation or service robots, another segment that we have got, does that fall outside the industrial focus? I will call service robots. My understanding is that this is more for healthcare and lease applications. I think we are feeling right now that this is too far away from our industrial automation kind of focus area. It's out of the world. Question around software. What kind of software offering did you lack today that you think you could have a good go to market approach together maybe that's not good with M and A. So we got to start with you right now and this is interesting with web factoring. We are asking our, working with our business units who developed a new product for Evo, for Anyvance, for Infosys, etcetera, where they take their factory and bundle a solution with that software together with our existing hardware. And We've done some successful pilots now in Netherlands, for example, in the loop parks. We actually take our connectivity, our data collection and things, and then we add this software for diagnostics, asset management, and things like this. I think the challenge we have here is more of a go to market because these are normally verticals. We need to be really good in waste water handling, for example. And then you need a go to market plan to reach this municipalities and wastewater plans. So I think there is more commercial challenge than so much technology challenge. We also know that I would agree. I mean, whatever we can package as a solution on top of our hardware would be very interesting for us. I think we have a lot of these bits and pieces already, but we need to pack it together and then find a way working on it. And then we have this solution partners. I mean, they are basically software companies who standardize on getting data out of the top end cloud systems. So very easy for an end user to deploy. And of course, partnering and doing it ourselves, we think partnering is also an important factor in the software business, which drives our sales, which drives our strength in the infrastructure and the data side of it. So I think there are many ways we can do it. But the fuel software that is a challenge for us. So it has to be connected somehow to what we do in the industry context. And yes, more in certain M and As, I think that's good stuff on us. So with increased focus on M and A, what will change in terms of your criteria to execute on interesting targets? Will you source more companies? And if so, will you be changing the way of sourcing or will it pay more? Yeah. We'll send you a team. I mean, we are working now to expand our short list. I think it's too short today. So we need more names on that list. And this is one of the reasons we engage now more of our business unit managers on who they know in the past before this group who came in with inputs to the shortest. So I think we try to get more people involved within our organization. We're just recruiting a new M and A manager who can work more with us. We expanded there. But I think we need a larger shortlist because we know that many of these companies are founder led or privately held, have their own. It's not easy to buy them. You need to trust to take years. And if you look on these acquisitions we have done, the 7 acquisitions we have done, these accounted that we have been working with. We know both of them before and take Cosentyx. We know them. We've been drinking beer with them in that trade show for the last 5 years. So we have a friendly relationship with them. And now the stars also in the right position that we can simply do this because the founders had retired level 9 through something else. So that was not new. We did not have a competition. We will go and be person that would like to sell to them. We paid a fair amount of money and we will be free. And I think this is a very typical kind of M and A process we have. So it's a long process and we make sure we have more of these processes ongoing. But it's so difficult to say when can they close. It's not what we're going in a minute. Okay. Another one on competition. I think we answered that. Marco, on 5 gs, what do you say when you say about the revenues from the quality products and solutions? What does mainstream by what do you mean by mainstream in 2025? Maybe we can start with that and that's the second point. With mainstream, I mean, it will become an accepted and accepted technology that you will see actually in many installations. My view is that this will first happen within the larger organizations that is driving automation being in the foreground. Example of this has always been, as I said earlier, the automotive company that is really pushing the boundaries of what's possible to do with automation technologies of today. When it comes to revenue, it's very, very hard to say, of course. I'm not really on the sales area, but of course, we see that if you take a look on the estimates that could be done is that if every machine should have a 5 gs connection instead of the normal Ethernet connection, well, then it could be a quite substantial, of course, but it takes time to get there. You need both to prove that the technology is working. This is what's going on from today. Then we need to approach the makers, the machine business, the device manufacturers, making sure that they also adopt this 5 gs technology. And this is, I think, our main sweet spot and it's both to provide infrastructure components bridging 5 gs with industrial communication, but also helping our traditional customers getting on to 5 gs. So I'm not sure. Could we make an example? We do work in wireless technology, Bluetooth or Wi Fi for 10 plus years, 10 years ago, that was a new technology in the industry. And we talked about the value of not having a cable, no wireless. For moving robot arms because it was so expensive to build the tables there. They were the 1st adopters or wireless equipment. Now 10 years later, a lot of tables that were made are replaced by wireless, so that's been become more mainstream accepted. I think you see the same thing of 5 gs. If you need specific applications that are difficult to solve today without 5 gs, that's where you have a higher value. But that will spread to also other applications. So in 2025, we think that 5 gs will not replace everything. But it will be a technology that is okay to choose without a big debate with their users. Exactly, yes. And also the product offering, the infrastructure, the affordability as I talked about earlier has been coming down to reasonable level. And the knowledge has been also been going up, the competence. And it's a trusted technology model. Maybe you could clarify that. I mean, know it involves laptop applications, which are 5 gs. In fact, we would have 5 gs nodes in several We have cellular products there with 3 gs, with 4 gs, and that will be 5 gs. So that's just a natural development. So now we're talking about specific applications. We are talking about factory automation, smart manufacturing, how 5 gs comes in and solves on prem private network installations. Of course, in the commercial 5 gs networks using this data transportation, that will be done much, much earlier. I think that might be the biggest part of this is just like we do for the ULT today. Yes. Thanks. The second part is question from the Webex is more financial but directed to Joakim. On the 20% EBIT margin target, where do you see gross margins in this context as gross margins remain at 62%, but with double revenue, 20% EBIT margin in 2025 since rather conservative. Yes, I think that's how we look at it. For now with the current mix that we have, we think that 60 2 percent gross margin is where we'll be in the future. And if something would happen, let's say we'll make a big software acquisition, of course, we'll come back to revise the target. But from what we can see today and what we expect that we will make more smaller software acquisitions that will have a big impact on the gross margins. The 60 2% is the gross margin level here. And volume with the things that the margins of 'twenty seems to not ambitious enough. I think when we do the math, we think that's where we're going to be. And again, the current situation where we actually reached the 20% is not a sustainable level. So we still the way we see it, we've had a run rate of about 80% now for 3 years and we still need to close the gap for those 2 percentage points on the market. That's something I would believe we can do in this period of time. Okay. Thank you. You mentioned it before, but we look at M and A. We look at the kind of leading product companies that we have been buying and we continue to buy. We look on their EV partners. They are normally 10, 12, 15, some days up to 20. But I think in that sweet spot, it's slightly under our target. So we'll bring that in. We'll work with them a little bit to into our targets. I think that's partly affecting our the mix. I think also back to your question, we have the 4 round, what's the problem with finding targets. If we're going to only look at companies that have a 20% margin and a 10% growth, then it wouldn't be a lot of targets either. So I'm really glad that we need to expand the scope a little bit. We need to accept lower EBIT margins, still the good companies with 50% EBIT margin. And then that will also be something that we need to take care of and ensure that we can work with each 10%. Thank you. Right, we're closing up to 11. We have about 10 ish questions. So coming into we could go on for a little bit more. The next one is on the pandemic. How far have you come in terms of up and cross selling of Infosys and E mOn products and have customers' perception of their products changed with the pandemic? Hansel, Stefan maybe. Yes. Cross selling the prospects, I'm not sure I understand that question. I think it may be related to the question. I think can we say pandemic impact, of course, we what we talked about earlier, the fact that, let's say, back to the old machine industry out there, they have, of course, increased awareness that remote access to node services is important and also, of course, to ask this to this when we go to the road. So that's, of course, contributing. When it comes to the intensity side of things, I don't think the pandemic itself is a driver. I mean, that is a very good driver of that business in the fact that there are areas of our globe like Asia, in Latin America. The installation of air conditioning is increasing a lot. And that's a fundamental driver. And then it might slow things down a little bit because we cannot really go out and install this kind of equipment. But that's a very temporary effort. So but yes, cross selling there, I'm not sure what's cross selling means also doing a remote access within building automation. That could be. And if we look at that, we have launched, let's say, more high level teams solutions into the building now. So we have more connected gateways and cloud services going into the building and whether we utilize our HMS hub technology for data and we are of course looking into also say, IoT applications for the use of factory software also in the deep being in the management side of this. So maybe in the industrial automation market. I think we see right now lower CapEx investments, investment hesitation for investments, Stated bounce back by the end. So I think these investments, they are not they are postponed. They don't cancel their postponed. But we see that palm and paper, food and beverage, automotive, still diesel industries that keep on moving. People are still drinking beer and you still need the toilet paper and all those So these industries tend to delay their investments. But if you look at the situation, I think there are some uncertainty. We have end customers in hotels, shopping malls, airports. So some of these things are more, actually, how will this market look going forward? We see good growth, okay growth at indices. But I think there's the end customers there are more concerned how does this market look in 5 years. But on the other side, energy saving and cool by AC is 2 very strong drivers. And I hope that market is more of discussion topic and long end customer. And warehousing. That's increasing. Constant Bjorkin on OpEx. On the OpEx side, what does being selected with OpEx investments mean in the various cost buckets? R and D to sales unchanged, but more specifically on the other cost items, what will be more and less selective? Okay. So if you look at the different offerings as you saw when we presented the growth of the different areas, we see different growth and I think we need to think a bit more about what those areas can actually have a high growth and they will need to make the underlying investments in a higher pace to support that growth possibility. There's some other areas where we'll see a lot of growth going forward. And I think we need to be inched a bit on cash cow on those areas. We're not going to be investing as much as we've been doing in the past. Those customers in Marahara, we will still not be able to outgrow the market. So I think that's what we mean by that. And in terms of sales and R and D, I think it also varies between different there are some areas that we're growing very well. So like in China and Japan for at the moment, where we're going to continue to do a lot of investments and especially in China, we're going to look at next year to get a higher presence on that market. And then some other areas like France and Germany at the moment, we do have a pretty strong big organization, but we don't really see that the underlying goal is really there. So we don't have to as much sales fees in that area. So I think it goes both for the sales and for the R and D, but it's depending on where we see the growth in the different businesses. Thank you. Okay. So more about M and A, I think you answered that question. One more from Victor Hurdeft and Stefan. Maybe you want on the existing products. Could you elaborate on how the competition has handled the pandemic? Do you feel you have strengthened your competitive position or performed after market? Yeah, so this will be a little gut feeling. I think doing it and then it's very hard to acquire new customers. So it's fairly easy to go, say, digital and virtual selling to existing customers. It's a lot harder to really secure new customers. So I think most companies do not really grab market shares in certain classes like this. We have been like many others extremely active with the lead generation through webinars, we do a lot more tech talks, we do a lot more activities that will create interest. And if we just count lead generation, we generate more leads now than when we were exhibitions and so on. But the quality of the list and it's just they are good enough. So yes, long answer, but I think the short one is that probably no one is really taking market shares in this climate. We're kind of maintaining this and growing with our customers or suffering with our customers. Thank you. And given the goal of gearing level, how much room requisitions will be in billions? I think maybe I can answer like this. I think we don't see a problem at the moment with enough new funds available for acquisitions periods of our time. But we also have a standing mandate from the AGM to 5% with initial shares to acquisitions. So with the pipeline that we have today and the vision that we have right now, I think we have then we have room for what we would do. Another question from Neovann about acquisition. Do you have a long list of acquisition targets? Or are you prepared to see your own shares in deals? Use your own shares? Yeah, I think we start with the first one. Yeah, we have a long list and I think one of the activities that we need to work on now is expand that long list and we need to especially take it down to some qualified profits on the short list as well. That is one area that we're working to do it now. And also, as Stefan said, we're going to have a new resource back then to form more focus on this What's the second part? That will be shared. Yes, that's I think the primary target will make the medium sized acquisitions, small and medium sized, we don't pay with 100% cash. And if we're going to go after something larger, we're totally okay with using our shares. We did that once in the past, partially with the acquisition. Otherwise, everything has been financed with other bank for our own cash. So we will probably see mostly to be financed. We'd like to take the opportunity to send greetings to Uwe by Alsson. He's the former Chairman of the Board for HBS for many, many years. So great to hear that you're on this call over. Right. We've got final questions coming in, so I think we'll take them that will be just about the number of questions. And I think it's good stuff all about NPS. What activities will you undertake to keep customer on NPS up 25% net positive? What are the drivers going forward to keep customer satisfied and buy more? Good question. I think the key thing we are thinking about is how can we make sure that our employees are both happy, motivated and high performing? We believe that that is the key thing, is creating loyalty with customers. We announced our order NPS measurement that's not going to be customers. So we're changing it. We don't have an update on that yet. There were no customers that they appreciate good service, good functional services. They really appreciate it. We tell them that the things that are good, we will tell some of the things that are bad. This is very good for us. I mean, we don't give them what they want here. We try to be honest and talk about new things about things. And I think we talked a lot about service levels, how we can have short lead times, understand customers. I think it will not the challenge going forward, maybe how can we expand also the big data relationship with our customers, how can we make more of this kind of same service and things like this. So I think we need to maintain this kind of small company personal feeling we have with customers today, how to keep that building growing into more deeper tools at the same time. But I think it's important that we really keep our close contact with customers. We are not the company. We hear that many of our developers, we feel that they have too long distance to our customers, really shorten the distance. So we need to act as a small company, we're getting bigger. So I think that's what we work here in management to make sure we maintain this kind of entrepreneurial culture that we maintain and drive the NPS customers. And for Hans, how does your go to market channels look today? How do you foresee development? Okay. So that's there is quite a lot to run below depending on the market situation. So we have quite a lot of products which are typically sold through channels, gateway products which are open and sold as often in the industry. Sysmian creates by them through channels. A lot of the eOne remote access products are also sold through channels because we reach all these more machine builders more efficiently like that. So the markets where these products are dominating, of course, they have a very high dependency on our channels. And if you go to typical, let's say, device making market, Germany, Japan, we have a lot more direct sales. All in all, best guess and maybe you have better figures. I don't know. I would say around 30, but growing is channel sales, but that's growing. So the highest growth we have are in sweet spots where we're more depending on channels than direct sales. And I can confirm the number. It's been around the 30% channels and 7% average sales for the last few years. And I also think it might change a little bit in the future too. Also, like in Germany, we're on a longer driving count. We're also moving to make sure we spend more time with the leaders of our customers. And we're actually motivating some of the small customers to go to our channel system. So we're actively trying to make sure we get a better mix there. That's correct. I mean, we are a customer company. So of course, we're going to expect to be a small company. We have everyone that actually are now and we really try to focus our energy on more important or, let's say, larger customers. All customers are important, of course, but the large ones we first got our own direct resources. And we try to have our smaller customers serviced by our distribution for SEDIFET service. We have also hooked up a lot of our products to win on web shops. So we have a fair amount of our products in Europe, it's Conrad and the U. S. Is BBB or U. S. Is a global BBP. They are truly global. So we try to make it easy for also these companies who need 1 or 2 and they need it tomorrow. It's actually about I mean, we operate that we are really great. Long relations with high volumes to our embedded customer. So that has been quite successful. You can see that in many of our tech companies, if you're a developer or if you're working in the production environment, you are allowed to buy from this. You have an account and we see very nice growth of online sales, but through China POC as I would say. So that's an impressive development as well. Thank you. Right. Few more questions coming in. Can you say anything about the total market in terms of the European? How large is the addressable market we define our sweet spots today? And what is the Asian market share? Yeah, I think we get that question a lot and it's a very difficult question. So we're active in pretty narrow niches. There are no really good market data available. I think what we can do is just make your best guess. And what we normally estimate is that let's say we have somewhere between 20% 30% of the market in our Energas offering and maybe the same if we take the even offering in remote access. For the other areas, we don't really know. And but also this is our best guess. We know that we are a leader, the leading player in those fields, but exactly I'll be in the lead to talk more about this. Okay. Maybe this is for Gustavan on market and trade fairs. For us to get a sense of how important it is for you to be out on trade fairs and demo new products, how much of annual sales growth usually pertain from leads generated from these trade fairs and where are your plans to digitalize these processes? I got this question a year ago. I would say that trade fairs very important for growth in our lead generations. But today, Paul, maybe it's for you, but we see that we have more leads coming now to our digital activities. Of course, we haven't met them face to face, so we are we don't have the same feeling for these individuals, but we haven't need to do now to nurture the leads and make sure marketing is doing one part and sales will get to one part. So I think right now trade shows will, to some extent, come back, but I don't see that they will play the same role for us post pandemic like before. So I think we can do more of seminars and this kind of we made this flex things, our own events in the US, fantastic events. We miss them. But these big industrial players, we for sure don't miss the OpEx cost in doing this kind of big moves in Germany. But of course, it generates on 500 leads, 600 leads in a week. That is a very high cost for me. So I think we are looking into all of this. Absolutely. I mean, the majority of leads in the past has been created by some kind of face to face interaction. So trade shows events will be our overall same customer meetings. I would say 60% to 70% of the leads and that will probably create that way. And right now, probably, I don't have specific because it's so you would have had an estimate, but I would assume that we create 90, 95% of the leads either from existing customers, but with digital interaction digital traction or through online. That's also deploying this marketing automation tool. We have the deploy now will give us a really good way to nurture these leads, which we're creating digitally and make sure that they qualify to put them on the go next year, where we will hopefully create high quality stuff for that. It is most that This is not our choice. I think our customers, the buyers, they prefer digital tools. For them, it's much more efficient. Like this, we discussed the other day, 7% to 6% of business to business buyers, they prefer ticket to use. So for them, I think that's leading a donor to that new world. Being a supplier, you have advantages, a face to face contact that being the buyer. Yes, it looks like buyers are more ready to go be better than sellers. Right. We talked about the housing automation and robots and we talked about the addressable smart suite parts there. One last question, I think we'll keep this the last one that's once we will see. How do you create differentiation when it comes to technology services or other in the Anybus business? I think what we have it might our products and technology, I mean, the products we do, they fulfill the goal and so does a lot of other stuff on market. I think it's more of us from HMS perspective. I would say it's the complete package. It's good technology, transparent roadmap, good quality, good supply chain. Basically, it's doing business with H&M and stuff might be one of the most differences. We have always put a lot of effort into making sure that the customer gets successful using our product and so on and our services have been extremely well appreciated. Every time we do a survey, it pops up at a high level that we are a good company to work with, a good service level, that we have good quality of the products and so on and we take care of the customers. Then of course, we also like really that we are in the forefront of innovation that we are seeing new technology. And basically also what's also been important is that the commercial value of technology. We don't only do things for the technology sake. It must bring value to both the customer and of course, to us. So that what I would say is it's our more of a profile of the company than actually down to bits and pieces of technology. If I may add a little bit to that, I can be the traditional, let's say, embedded technologies business within Airbus. It's a lot about make for by decision. From these sort of standards, and we design our communication part. So for a large customer, even large volume on, they could develop the communication and sense. But then they also have to maintain it and make sure that when a standard is upgraded, they upgrade their product. What we deliver is a solution which we guarantee will be upgraded all the time. So the make or buy decision is the most important, I think. And what we buy from us is not just a product. It's a a lifetime commitment. And so that this works. The future is intuitive. Future is intuitive. And I think what you see here is a small differentiation. We've been working for the last 3 years with large customers, all large companies like Rockwell and Schneider, they realize that they have helped the security implants. We cannot fully get an idle level. We need to boil down those devices. And we announced HMS Note certified according to a standard called 62,443. 62,443. And this is a security standard. This is also how we develop products in a secure way. So we are now certified here in Hong Kong for development center to do that. We believe that this will spread to other customers. But here we own the hands to our large customers. We implement invent new capabilities in our development. But we also think that this will be a differentiation going forward because security is so challenging for many small and medium sized device manufacturers in the machine learning because it's a completely barrier competence. So we are developing these new competencies and capabilities together with our customers, but we do that because we think it will boil down and give us benefits that we are small, medium in the future. So this could be one differentiation we all want. Okay, that was all the questions for the chat coming in. Anything you want to add at this moment, Simon? I mean, also great questions. So thank you for the interest. Excellent. So with that, we'll just say that this presentation and the recording will be available on the website, hnsnetworks.com. And we also have a PDF of the slides there. Thanks very much, Rune. Thanks to us for taking this. Thank you.

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