Welcome to the Instalco Q4 presentation, 2025. For the first part of the conference call, the participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key five on their telephone keypad. Now, I will hand the conference over to the speakers. Please go ahead.
Okay, welcome to this presentation of Instalco's report for the fourth quarter and full year 2025. My name is Per Sjöstrand. I'm CEO of Instalco, and with me today is our CFO, Christina Kassberg, and our Head of IR, Mathilda Eriksson. The fourth quarter concludes a challenging year, but also marks an important shift driven by our own actions. As always, I will start with a short snapshot of Instalco today. We are a leading installation group across the Nordics, with an established platform also in Germany. Our strength is our decentralization. Local companies close to customers, combined with common standards, tools, and governance. With over 6,000 employees, we are exposed to market segments driven by long-term needs, such as energy efficiency and electrification. Over to slide 3.
First, for a quick glance at our LTM numbers, which, for the fourth quarter also represents the full year. Net sales amounted to SEK 13.6 billion, and we ended the year with a backlog of SEK 9.5 billion, which represents a steady book-to-bill of about 70%. Exactly where we want it to be. It allows us to be disciplined in the projects we take on, focusing on quality and profitability rather than growth for growth own sake. Our EBITDA for the full year amounted to SEK 800 million, corresponding to a margin of 5.9%. When adjusting for one-off costs taken in the first and second quarters, this would amount to SEK 875 million, corresponding to a margin of 6.4%.
Despite the extraordinary circumstances around these one-offs, I believe that this is the cost of doing business in a project-based environment, and we have during the year taken several steps to take down our risk. With or without adjustments, we are, however, not satisfied with this level, but the quarter shows that we are moving in the right direction. Service remains strong and again accounted for 38% of net sales in the fourth quarter. The strong cash flow in quarter four also as well as throughout the year kept our LTM cash flow from operations above SEK 1 billion, even despite the decrease in earnings, showcasing our strong focus on improving working capital. Next slide, yes. Well, let's move onto a quick summary from the quarter. Our improvement in initiatives are beginning to deliver results.
For the first time in seven quarters, EBITDA increased compared to previous year. We are proud of the progress, but not satisfied. The improvement is primarily driven by our own performance. Market conditions vary geographically, and the installation market is late cyclical. We are not relying on the external environment. Instalco 2.0 is making a tangible difference in daily operations: sharper priorities, clearer accountability, and more consistent follow-up. A focused approach to doing the right things collectively and with precision. Our financial positions has strengthened, and our leverage has come down significantly. Improved earnings, improved POC ratio, and a clear focus on cash flow are reinforcing the balance sheet and increasing financials as well as strategic flexibility. So for next, and now I will hand over to Christina, who will take you through our financial development in more detail.
Thanks, Per. Let's start off with looking at how our net sales and order backlog has developed during the fourth quarter of 2025. Net sales grew by 4.4% to almost SEK 3.8 billion. Currency had a negative impact on, on the outcome, with -1.4%. Organic growth, on the other hand, turned positive at 4.9%, and we saw growth in both the reporting segments. Our order backlog also reported growth of 5.6% or 7.5% organically, again, impacted by FX. Most of the growth came from Norway, but we also saw strongly increasing order intake from a few of our Finland-based subsidiaries that mainly work towards industrial clients. Especially for the Norwegian order growth, it is important to keep in mind that many of the projects taken have long durations.
I would therefore caution against expecting it to quickly go to execution. In addition to the backlog, we saw our service business, which remains an important stabilizing factor. For the fourth quarter, service amounted to 38% of sales and at the same level for the full year. Then on to our earnings, EBITDA in both millions and margin. Q4 tends to be seasonally strong, with lots of projects wrapping up by the end of the year. This pattern continued also in 2025, though December saw activity going down for both ourselves and our customers due to the holiday period. In total, EBITDA grew by 39% compared to last year, to SEK 272 million. This corresponds to a margin of 7.2%.
The higher margin and improved result are explained partly by prior year items affecting comparability and partly by improvement, implemented operational improvements. The outcome breaks the negative year-on-year EBITDA trend observed over recent quarters. The adjusted EBITDA margin is unchanged year-on-year in the context of a market that has pressured margins throughout the year. Maintaining that level in Q4 reflects underlying operational improvements. It also marks a clear break in the pattern of year-on-year margin decline we have seen in recent quarters. The focus on margin improvement remains a key priority for the entire group. To break it down into more detail, over to a slide that summarizes Segment Sweden in Q4. Overall, net sales grew to SEK 2.6 billion, with an organic growth of 6.6%. Acquired growth contributed with 1.3%.
The order backlog was down by 3% compared to a year ago to SEK 6.6 billion. This, however, represent a sequential growth of SEK 300 million compared to the end of Q3. The EBITDA amounted to SEK 180 million, corresponding to a margin of 6.8%, compared to 5.5% last year. The strong, stronger margin is the result of the segment no longer being burdened by last year's one-off costs, combined with operational improvements. Improved margins and earnings are evident across the majority of geographical areas. At the same time, performance continues to be weighed down by a persistently challenging market. When adjusting for the one-off costs of SEK 54 million, adjusted margin for the same quarter last year would have been 7.7%.
The Swedish market is showing early cautious sign of recovery, particularly in the major cities where new projects are starting to move forward. At the same time, decision making remains slow, and conditions are still challenging in parts of the country, with pressure on pricing in some regions. Demand within technical consulting, automation, and digitalization continues to strengthen, providing early signals of gradual improvement despite a mixed industrial backdrop. But as always, it is important to keep in mind that installations is late cyclical. Now for a summary of the Rest of Nordics segment. Overall, net sales were down slightly to SEK 1.1 billion due to FX effects. Organic growth amounted to 1.2%. The EBITDA margin amounted to 7.8%, compared to 5% last year, or 6% last year, if adjusting for the one-off costs.
The improvement was driven by both countries, but primarily by Finland, and in particular by projects for industrial customers. The segment showed very strong development of the order backlog, which increased by 33%. As I mentioned a few slides ago, this was primarily driven by Norway, which saw some, for us, larger orders come in during the year, but also in the quarter. In Norway, the market has stabilized following a weaker period, with early signs of recovery, particularly in Oslo and the south regions, supported by public investments in infrastructure, defense, healthcare, and education. Competition remains intense, and the macro environment is still somewhat uncertain, with inflation and interest rate expectations affecting investments decisions. Overall, the market is gradually stabilizing, but any recovery is likely to be gradual rather than fast. In Finland, activity remains subdued, with the residential construction and larger private investments still on hold.
Demand is mainly driven by renovation work, industrial projects, and longer-term investments linked to the energy transition, defense, and digital infrastructure, while a broader recovery is not expected in the near term. Finally, a reminder that this segment will be split up in our external reporting starting from January 1, 2026. We will publish historical numbers according to the new segment reporting before our Q1 report. On to the cash generation in the quarter. In Q4, cash flow from operations amounted to SEK 451 million. The slight decrease is attributable to last year's much higher adjustments for non-cash items related to the one-off costs taken in Q4 2025. Q4 tends to be a period where we build up working capital due to the typically increased invoicing at the end of the year.
So was the case also this year, but I'm happy to report that we did so, to a lesser extent than a year ago, despite our increased top line and earning, and earnings. Taken together with a strong development throughout the previous quarter, this means we ended the year with a cash conversion of 108%, which is above our target. This is the result of improved earnings and improved POC ratio, and a clear focus on cash management within the full group. In total, the cash flow performance give us confidence in the direction and the quality of our execution. This cash flow profile strengthens our financial foundation and increases our flexibility going forward. Then let's have a look at our performance on a rolling 12-month basis in relation to our financial targets.
Our targets are defined over a business cycle, and in the current market, we continue to prioritize profitability and disciplined project selection over pure volume growth. Despite this, we ended the full year 2025 with a negative net sales development of only -0.7%, and an organic development of only -0.3%. The EBITDA margin came in at 5.9%, or if adjusted, at 6.4%. It remains below our long-term ambition. We are not satisfied and are taking actions. These actions are making an impact, as can be seen in the quarter. Operational cash flow was again strong, with a conversion rate of 108%, above our target, supported by ongoing improvements in working capital efficiency.
Our leverage remains somewhat over our own long-term target of 2.5 times net debt to EBITDA, as it currently sits now at 2.8 times. This represents a significant deleveraging compared to 3.3 times at the end of Q3. The board proposes a dividend of 0.5 SEK per share, based on the current numbers of shares, which amounts to 133 million SEK. Of course, we remain firmly focused on delivering on our climate commitments as part of our long-term targets. By that, over to you, Per.
Thank you, Christina. Let's talk about Fabri for one slide here. And first of all, I want to point out, momentum in Germany remains strong. Our German platform, Fabri, continues to develop well and has made 2 further acquisitions during the quarter. This means Fabri has now reached 22 companies in total, underscoring the steady progress of the platform. As with previous additions, these companies are a strong fit with the Fabri model. They are entrepreneurial-led, technical skilled, and firmly rooted in their local markets. Together, they strengthen both the platform's technical capabilities and also its geographic reach. The collaboration between Instalco and Fabri is built on a long-term agreement, and the next step in ownership under our multi-phase model is gradually approaching.
At the same time, execution is very much about timing and preparation, and based on our current assessment, step two is expected to become relevant in the second half of 2026. Overall, the development in Germany continues to confirm that our platform strategy is working, and that the market offers attractive opportunities for long-term, profitable growth. Then I have a theme here on the next slide, I think. I wanted to do a brief look back at the year we have just added to the books. As I said in the beginning of the presentation, the fourth quarter concludes a challenging year, but also marks an important shift driven by our own actions. 2025 was a challenging year in the market. We know, we all know that.
With uneven demand and limited visibility at times, we also started the year with setbacks, including Northvolt. But what really defines this year is not the market we were given, but the choices we made within it. We deliberately reset the fundamentals of the business. A lot of focus went into Instalco 2.0, which we introduced to you during our Q3 call. This includes better follow-up, planning and execution, and more structured way of driving improvements across the group. Getting the basics right matters, especially in a decentralized project business like ours. We also choose discipline over volume. We are not chasing growth at any price, but focusing on margins, margins, risk, and the right projects with the right customers. That is both a profitability choice and a risk management choice. And this focus on discipline has also shaped our approach to expansion. Execution comes before expansion.
That applies to organic growth, but also to M&A. We completed one acquisition during the year, Alf Näslunds Eltjänst in Örnsköldsvik. This was a very deliberate choice. The region is seeing positive momentum with several major upcoming investments, and Alf Näslunds Eltjänst gives us a strong local platform. It strengthens our position in the region and our multidisciplinary offering, allowing us to deliver more complete solutions to customer locally. At the same time, we have remained selective and patient elsewhere. On the strategic side, we took several important steps during the year. In March, we took possession of our minority stake in Fabri, giving us exposure to a new market while keeping risk balanced. Over the summer, we extended our credit facility to a total of SEK 3.4 billion, securing financial strength and flexibility in a time when that really matters.
Taken together, this has been a year of deliberate choices. Choices, choices to focus, to be disciplined, and to make sure we execute well before we move on to the next step. Those choices are now starting to shape where Instalco is heading next. While we have made a lot of changes during the year, our focus has, of course, remained on our core business. Day in and day out, our subsidiaries are out in the market, competing for and delivering complex installation projects. This slide shows a small selection of four important orders secured during the year in a market that has been anything but easy. What they have in common is not size, but quality. They are technically demanding projects, often multidisciplinary, with long-term customers and high requirements of execution, planning, and collaboration.
They also reflect the parts of the market where activity continues even in a downturn, such as healthcare, public infrastructure, retail with scale, and secure or specified facilities. And for us, these orders are a clear confirmation that our model works. When the market is challenging, it is the subsidiaries with strong local positions, technical competence, and discipline that continue to win the right kind of business. I'm assuming most of you have seen this slide before, so I won't go through it in detail again. But Instalco 2.0 is the core of where our efforts have gone during the past few months, so it's worth a short recap.
At its heart, Instalco 2.0 is about protecting what has always worked for us, and that means local entrepreneurship, closeness to, to the customer, and fast decision-making, while being more deliberate in how we run and support the business. We are raising the bar on one day-to-day execution, building stronger capabilities across the organization, and taking a clear, more hands-on approach where performance is not where it should be. The goal is, of course, stronger execution, more predictable outcomes, and a more resilient group over time, without moving decision-making away from the subsidiaries. It's very important. Slide 16. The slide illustrates how Instalco 2.0 has progressed over the past 2 quarters. During Q3, the focus was on setting the direction of defining the framework, aligning the operational model, and establishing common principles.
That work was about creating the conditions to execute in a more disciplined and consistent way. In Q4, the focus shifted to implementation. Parts of the framework are now being applied in daily operations, and we are working systematically on rolling out across the group. This is not about launching a new process or sending out material, but about gradually changing ways of working and how performance is follow up. We are seeing tangible effects in better visibility across all levels of the organization, earlier identification of deviations in results and projects forecast, and a more disciplined approach to risk and working capital. Issues are surfaced, challenged, and addressed rather than postponed. While we are still early in the journey, we are starting to see these improvements reflected clearly in operation and, to some extent, also in the numbers.
Importantly, Instalco 2.0 is not a one-off initiative. The ongoing phase is about maintaining momentum throughout or through continuous improvement, structured follow-up, and capability building, including targeted training and leadership initiatives. This is about establishing a new way of working for the long term, not delivering a short-term project. Okay, I think this is this last slide and, summary. So let's return to the quarter and, look at the key takeaways. As we have mentioned, for the first time in seven quarters, EBITDA is growing, which, marks an important shift after a prolonged period of pressure. At the same time, market conditions remain varied across geographies, which continues to require a disciplined and selective approach. Operationally, we deliver strong cash flow and further strengthen our financial positions, reflecting improved control and focus in the business.
Instalco 2.0 continues to progress according to plan. The rollout is ongoing, and we are starting to see clear effects in daily operations, with sharper priorities, clearer accountability, and more consistent follow-up across the organization. The focus is on doing the right things together and with precision, and reinforcing these ways of working over time. All in all, we are taking steps in the right direction from a stronger financial position. And with that, I would like to thank you for joining in on this call, and now open up for questions.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Oscar Rönnkvist from SEB. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and good morning. So just my first question would be on, on the Swedish contract sales. I think they seem extraordinarily strong here in Q4. So I just wondered if there are any temporary effects or if we should extrapolate the, the strength here. I mean, the construction market is feeling, you know, pretty, pretty cautious, and this is a late cyclical business, and also considering that you highlight the, the seasonality going into the Q1 then. So just wanted to hear if I'm reading too much into that or, or not. Thanks.
What do you say? Should you take that one?
The organic growth in Q4 was encouraging. Particularly given the, I would say, the market environment we have discussed and we all are aware of. It reflects a combination of good order intake earlier in the year, but also solid execution in the quarter. And I would say also the fact that we continue to see demand in parts of the market that are less exposed to new build-up, new build activity.
Maybe adding to that.
Mm.
That we, our selling process has also developed.
Mm.
So, I think you're on the right track there.
Mm.
All right. So underlying frame, not sort of particular or temporary positivity.
We don't believe that. We think it's a slightly better market, better off, more offensive, you know, selling process and a combination of that.
Got it. Next one, just a more technical one on the working capital release here. So I think there was almost SEK 200 million now in 2025, despite you know, having pretty flattish organic growth. Do you expect any setback on the working capital levels, or should we see this as a new normal?
Well, as you are aware of, when it comes to leverage, for example, if you look at that, it's a combination when it's come to how we go forward on both net debt and the EBITDA components, but through cash flow forecast, we have worked hard with it during the quarter and the full year. We have given out measures, and we have really focused on it, and we will continue to do that. Cash flow and working capital improvements, it's hard work, and we continue, and we are happy that we have made a positive conclusion like this for the end of the year. 108% in cash conversion.
Yeah, and if I can just add on to that as well, I think we can definitely see several components of this really improving. We have an improved percentage of completion ratio, which is very positive, as well as several different components of the working capital. So this has been a focus area from the entire group throughout the year, and we're happy to see it pay off.
Understood. Thank you so much. All right, last question, just on the market outlook. You had some mixed confidence or some mixed comments about the sort of cautious confidence that you just say in the report, and implied order intake, as we have spoken about, seems pretty strong. And I believe also that you mentioned in earlier calls that you don't want to fill up the order book with low margin projects, right, naturally. But should we expect that, you know, when the orders are accelerating a bit here, that the project margins on new orders have improved regarding competition?
It's hard to say, of course, but it's in the right direction, I think. And, you know, we are talking also a lot about partnering projects. We are talking about the service sector. But I will say that market conditions remain mixed. And of course, we try to address our efforts towards the market where we think we can have gain most, of course. So it's still weak in certain new build segments, but there is a demand in infrastructure service, as I mentioned, more complex installation. That is also something we look into, and I think we suit very well in that.
It's more stable with those more complex installations, and we see signs of gradual improvement. But the recovery is uneven and varies by geography and customer segments, of course. We have to be on the right place, and take the right projects and the right customers, as we mentioned.
All right. Perfect. I'll stop there. Thank you so much.
The next question comes from Carl Ragnerstam from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Good morning. It's Carl here from Nordea. A few questions from my side as well. Firstly, in Rest of Nordics, you mentioned that the margin was partly at least driven by industry clients in Finland. So I wonder if you could give more flavors around whether these are several projects. Was it completion now during Q4, meaning that you released some POC, boosting the margins? Or do you think that the project will continue at the current level for one to three more quarters?
I think we see a rather stable, you know, market within the industrial part of our business. I mean, there is still several investments that we are looking forward to. And there are signs, as we mentioned, of also new projects coming up. So I think we can say that, and we will have, you know, a major part or a large part of our businesses are in the industrial, we call industrial sector right now. And I think we will see continuously improvements and but also new projects coming out there. So several projects, good order intake, that is something we are looking forward to.
Yeah. Hi, Carl. I think you can see that also written in the report on the Rest of Nordics segment, that Norway, of course, was the majority of the strong order intake, but also some industrial leading companies in Finland saw good growth as well.
Mm-hmm. No, I mostly refer to the margin, though, not order intake in Rest of Nordics.
I mean, in general, the industrial projects have a slightly, at least, a higher margin than maybe other parts. But, but also, I think they are I think they did good in quarter three as well. So I think it's a rather stable margin. Those companies have a rather stable margin, and I think, or I know, that also the business area has a little bit higher margins. So that's also. And we I mean, there's no reason for changing the opinion about that, and I think that they will continue to leverage a little bit higher margin.
Okay. That, that, that's good. That is stable and then, in terms of the-
Sorry, sorry, Carl. Sorry, Carl.
Yeah.
We have to mention the seasonality in Q1, of course. That's also something to, you know, addressing the industry or the more heavy industry as the sector. They have a slower pace in quarter one. I want just to mention that. So, but they are, you know, catching up in Q2 and Q3 and Q4. Okay.
That's very clear. Thank you. In terms of cash conversion, you talked a little bit about it. Of course, we saw a very busy POC coming down quite a bit quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year as well. So firstly, do you see that you are where you want to be on the POC right now? Because you've obviously done a lot of measures over the past years. And also secondly, in the cash conversion in the quarter, you've taken some big or large contracts over the past year. Startup of these tends to come with upfront payments. So, is cash conversion boosted by upfront payments then extended to the quarter, or is it sort of the Instalco 2.0 effect or any other?
It's a mix of everything I would say, Carl. First of all, the cash flow and the cash conversion and the working capital in the quarter was strong. And as you mentioned, variation in work in progress or the POC ratio is very, very important here. But then, you also, as you know, we tend to tie up more accounts receivable at the end of a year. We have good invoicing and that ties up accounts receivable, but in less extent, I would nevertheless say compared to previous, previous quarter.
But in the end, what we have done and what we are working with is more effective, I would say, use of payment terms in Instalco 2.0 and our measures around this. This is an important theme. And a lot of best practice in contractual payments and ensuring compliance across all units. So-
Okay.
Measures and Instalco 2.0, and a good work in the entire organization.
Okay, that is very clear here. And also looking at service sales in Sweden, particularly, seems to be down a bit year-over-year. Of course, you've done some measures with discontinuing sales. It's hard to see the underlying data, but do you still see a sort of stable/sluggish market in services, or what should we read into that number?
Service, we ended up for the group, 38%, and in the quarter, and approximately the same numbers in the quarter, but in quarter and the full year, a little less in the group, smaller numbers in Sweden than in the rest of the Nordics. This is a measure we have worked in around for many years to stabilizing and have this strengthening part with service in our businesses. We will continue that, and it's exactly we can't say exactly the numbers for the coming year, and we are not giving forecasts, but it is a priority-
Yeah
To have a stabilizing service business.
Yeah, exactly. And I think also we can say that was a strategy-
Mm.
That when we saw the market downturn a couple of years ago, it was a strategy to strengthen the service sector. Of course, when and if, of course, but I think so when more projects is coming out, it can be so that we are now focusing more on projects, and the service part is going down slightly, but that depends on how much, how many projects that will come out there and the price level, of course, of them, because the best is a mix, a healthy mix, but also the possibility to change almost from day to day between projects and service. So
Okay, that's very, very clear. Thank you.
The next question comes from Karl Bokvist from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning. First one on Fabri. Is it possible to give an update on kind of a run rate revenue level for the entire Fabri group?
I mean, I can say so much that they have performed well, and of course, they now have 27, 22 companies, as we said. They have a turnover, EUR 150 million. I mean, they are growing, and as I think we have mentioned before, they have at least the margin that we have in the Nordics, and I will say at least, because they are performing well. So, yeah. So, yeah, that's what I can say. We are satisfied, so to speak.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Understood. Also, I noticed in the report also on Fabri, that you now say you expect to close it by second or during second half. Any particular reason or decision why, why in the second half compared to perhaps first half before?
I say it's just, you know, little administrative work. So it's nothing that has changed. So it's just that we think that we have to go through the figures, of course. We have to see that everything is okay. They are a little bit, you know, not slower, but they have more administrative work down to do down there. So it's just yeah, almost a coincidence, but the figures are fixed, and we have to just to look into them.
Understood. And my second question is on, it's a bit of a follow-up to Oscar's regarding contract sales. So in the past, if we look back a few years, you, you have been a project execution installation group, and this is a part of a market where you have historically also had good margins. Contract sales now growing, good to see. I'm just curious to hear about your view on kind of pricing environment right now compared to what you can do by just, well, as you said, doing better things internally from the Instalco 2.0 model, et cetera.
Good question. One of the main targets and one of the pillars, I would say, in Instalco 2.0, is also to you know, improve our selling capacity, as I mentioned, and pricing goes with that. So it's one thing that you calculate projects, but the pricing is another you know, expertise, I will say. And that is also, that's something we have added to our you know, Instalco 2.0 and what we are doing now. So hopefully, of course, and that's also our both our you know, view of it and our wish, of course, but still we will work a lot with what we call pricing and value-added pricing, and that is something we have you know, picked up now and looking forward to.
With that said, you can just, you know, maybe you can imagine that this is on the highest on our agenda.
Understood. Thank you. That's all from my side.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Johan Lundqvist from DNB Markets. Please go ahead.
Hey, Per, Christina, and Mathilda, a few questions from my side, this one. You can hear me?
Yeah, yeah, just go on.
Yeah.
Just go on. I hear you perfectly.
Just curious to hear a little bit of your thoughts on FTE account. I note that the year-end FTE numbers was down from 60 versus end of Q3. Have you planned any further FTE reductions going into the beginning of 2026 and potentially some kind of restructure charges related to that?
I mean, no, we have not planned. There's no, you know, FTE savings or what you call it as program going on. We have our. We launched a couple of cost savings programs during 2024 and, maybe 2025 in the beginning. It's more like, you know, cost control right now around every sub in every subsidiary, and we are doing our business plans with these, you know, head counting as well. But we have no, you know, specific plans to reduce FTEs or so.
But of course, it depends on the market, and one of our main points here is that, and we have talked about it during this call as well, to act very quick and quickly on, to quickly respond on if we see ups or downs in the product intake.
Yeah, and I can also add that, of course, we have a very, we have a big mix of companies in, in our portfolio, and we have strong companies with very high profitability, and we have companies with that are struggling. So, we work individual with company after company of where they are, and, and where we need to make reductions, if, if that is the case, we work with cost control and, and et cetera. But we have a mixed portfolio and, and the geographies is different, and the market difference in, in the different countries and, and regions, so.
It's a daily, day-to-day business, yes.
Mm-hmm. Makes sense. And another margin drag that you've been fighting with for quite some time is the building automation startup. Possible to give any color on where you are with regard to margins in that area?
Did you ask about I didn't hear you clearly about Intec or Inmatic or?
Inmatic.
Inmatic.
Repeat the question, please.
Okay. So yeah, I mean, we, we know that the demand for, for their services are high. And I think also that what we can see now is they are, you know, catching up. They, this is a startup, and startups always start with, you know, empty hands. But what they are doing now is, and we can see that, that they are less dragging than now than in Q3. So I, I think we, we see signs of, of a really, really recovering-
Mm.
In that company and that in that segment, and they now are more, you know, stabilized in the market. I think they are well known now, and that means that they have more tenders are offering to do, and customers start to understand that we have this in-house. So we are looking forward to the development of Inmatic and of course, Intec as well during 2026.
But is they in yet, or?
Let's phrase it like this, today they are approximately 90 consultants in our automation startup businesses. They are still negative, but they are dragging less than in Q3. They are making better in Q4, but they are still negative. But what we are saying is that the margin is improving stepwise as we expect.
Excellent. My next question is back to Fabri. Can you give me some comments on what the balance sheet of Fabri looks like?
I mean, I think when we acquire then in part two, we will acquire 27%. I mean, then we will have a more, you know, a better view, and also it's more important for us. But of course, they have taken up a loan, but it's not, you know. It's very, very small figures today. So, I think we will come back after Q1, Q2 here, and explaining the situation in Fabri.
They are-
But it's nothing to worry about.
They are very well capitalized.
Yeah, exactly.
They have a strong balance sheet.
Yeah.
Excellent. Those were my three questions. I get back to you. Thank you.
Thank you.
There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for written questions and any closing comments.
We have no written questions at this time, so Per, if you want to wrap up?
Yeah. With that, I want to thank you for dialing in and for your questions. And of course, before we close this call, I want to take the opportunity to truly thank the people that make up Instalco for their work, responsibility, and commitment, demonstrating throughout the year, especially in what we call Instalco 2.0. So give credit where credit is due. We have seen good progress, and there is more to do and more to come. So, thank you very much.