Thank you very much. First of all, welcome to this presentation of our Q3 report for 2020. My name is Per Sjöstrand, and as you heard, with me is Robin Boheman and Fredrik Trahn. We can start slide number two, and just a short update on us. We are one of the leading installations groups in the markets of the Nordic countries, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. Our main area of operation is installation and service of heating and plumbing, electrical, ventilation, and cooling systems in all types of buildings. We have also started up installation consulting services in order to integrate the design work in our ordinary business. The group now consists of almost 80 subsidiaries and just over 3,600 employees. We have a highly decentralized structure, and we are supported by a small central organization.
I will come back to that, but you will see we have a strong profitability and high margins over time. Moving to slide number three. As you can see, we have now reached sales of nearly SEK 6.7 billion. We're talking LTM here, 12-month rolling, along with adjusted EBITDA of almost SEK 590 million. That means an adjusted EBITDA margin of 8.8%. We also have a solid order backlog at nearly SEK 6.3 billion. I will say immediately that we don't like to talk so much about adjusted EBITDA, and our adjustments are duly addressed to our earn-outs. We estimate our earn-outs every quarter. As you can understand, the figures can vary a little, both up and down. If you go to slide number four, some highlights from the quarter. We can see that there has been a continued high rate of growth, and as I said, a good profitability.
Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was approximately SEK 150 million, with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 9.2%. We have a very solid order backlog, as I said, SEK 6.3 billion, and that is quite high in relation to our annual sales, 94%. First of all, I'm very pleased to say that the results for segment Sweden, I'm very pleased with the results for segment Sweden, a lthough Rest of Nordic is still performing somewhat below the desired level. With that also, I would like to point out, however, that it's a level below the standard that we ourselves have established. Looking at the industry, overall, it's still relatively high. We can move, I think, to slide number five. I can also say on slide number four there that we have made six acquisitions during the quarter. I will come back to that, we will come back to that.
As I said, we had a good quarter despite the prevailing pandemic. That affects us all in one way or another. There has been no impact on our rate of acquisitions during the quarter, and we also have been able to maintain a high level of acquisitions despite the pandemic. During the quarter, there has, however, been a slight decline in production in some parts of the organization. Sick leaves, sometimes as high as 6%, that's approximately doubled compared to the lower, more around 3% that we usually have. Of course, that has impacted production and is reflected in the figures showing negative organic growth. If you also add that the higher absenteeism of parents needing to care for a sick child, there is no other conclusions to be made than that it has impacted production and is the root cause of our small negative organic growth during the quarter.
We will see how that will affect us in the future, of course. At the moment, I also will add, we are back on normal figures. Also, it's still very difficult to assess the market. We are prepared to adapt should the pandemic affect us in future quarters. We are, of course, carefully watching how it all develops and closely monitoring our business areas and subsidiaries. We can, with that, I think, go to slide number six. There, you see that net sales increased by slightly more than 16% to SEK 1.6 billion. During the quarter, as you saw, we made six acquisitions where the combined annual sales is set at almost SEK 500 million, corresponding to acquired growth of 20.8%. Okay. We move to slide number seven, please. Seasonal fluctuations like summer vacation typically affect us each year in the third quarter.
This year, however, performance in the third quarter was on par with the last quarter and with even higher margins. That's rather unusual, but that's the way it is this year. Underlying all healthy margins is a large quantity of well-managed small- and medium-sized projects at our company. Okay, slide number eight. As I mentioned earlier, our order backlog is very solid at SEK 6.3 billion, and as I also said, which corresponds to 94% of our annual sales. Despite the pandemic, we are taking many new orders and signing new contracts, most of which are medium-sized projects in the range from SEK 1 million-SEK 75 million. With that, I think Instalco stands strong thanks to the stability from our sizable order backlog and the diversification we have across different types of projects and markets. It also gives us flexibility in the sector where we operate.
If we move to slide number nine, maybe you can take that slide, Robin.
Yes. So, very happy to talk to you about some of the examples of projects that we've done in Q3. Especially very proud of the first one, which is a little bit of a milestone for us. It is our first Sustainable Instalco Project. It is a partnership project together with Skanska of building 50 apartments with very stringent environmental requirements, and it is our subsidiary in Malmö, Rörläggaren, who is performing this project. It's a heating and plumbing project. For those of you who don't remember, we launched our new sustainability program in the spring of this year, which is called Sustainable Instalco Project, which is built around six specific sustainability indicators.
Just to give you a little brief update about a few examples, i t's a health and environmental, so it's a safe employment program that you have to go through at the start of the project. For instance, all our suppliers need to sign the Instalco Code of Conduct. The project also has to demonstrate quite high climate savings. It needs to be a climate-smart project, so to say. That's just to mention a few of them. This project with Rörläggaren together with Skanska is [audio distortion] ticks boxes, so very happy with that. Also quite exciting, other project was the new head office at Fortnox in Växjö, where ELUB both designed and installed all the lighting in the 10,000 sq m building, which makes it, I must say, quite a spectacular office, if you get the chance to visit it.
It's only installed with LED light, which also is a good example of the environmental impact that Instalco can make when it comes to energy consumption. Last but definitely not least, is a little hint of what's to come, and the first Sustainable Instalco Project is underway in Norway. It's not finished yet, so we can't really give it the full stamp yet, but they're well underway. It is our subsidiary, Moi Rør, who's doing the heating and plumbing, cooling, and also the sprinkler system installation for a new school near Kristiansund in Norway. That's a few examples of projects that we have done and are doing in Q3 and gives a good understanding of the type of projects we do in Instalco. If we could please move to slide 10.
Here, I would like to talk to you about a little bit more in depth about the segments. If we start off with Sweden, it's been very high margins, and we've coped very well with the corona pandemic. I mean, reaching net sales growth of above 20%, and we're even achieving some organic growth in the segment Sweden, which we're very happy about, and a s you can see, the tremendous growth in the order backlog as well. Sweden is performing very well, and there is still a high rate of demand for technical installation. Mainly, I would say it's driven by public sector in Sweden, like schools, preschools, hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, that type of project. But it's also, I would say, we see productions in the new rental apartments and condominiums remain at good levels. That's also been driving.
Really happy about the segment Sweden. If we could move on to slide 11, please. Here, we see the development in Rest of Nordics. As Per mentioned, the margin is somewhat lower here, but still 6.7%. I think that's good in the type of environment we are at in the moment. As Per also mentioned, I think it's good when you look at the industry standard, and especially if you count in that we are in a pandemic situation, and we've been affected mostly, I would say, in Norway due to the COVID lockdown. But as mentioned before, we have launched an action plan for some of our companies in specifically Norway, and we're following that strategy.
You will see a little decline here in turnover due to the fact that we are downsizing some of our companies in Rest of Nordics to focus more on margin. As you saw on the slide before or two before, we launched a sustainability program in Norway and Finland during Q3, and it was also very well-received both by employees and customers. Maybe, we can move on to slide 12, please. Looking at acquisitions then. As you see, the list has grown. We did six acquisitions in Q3. We see that the interest of becoming part of Instalco is really high, and I think that has a little to do also with the pandemic, that people want to be part of the group, you want to be part of a network, you want to be comfortable and make sure that you have the resources needed for the future as well.
We're able to attract some really good companies. The corona pandemic, in that sense, has not kind of impacted the rate of our acquisitions. You see a focus on Sweden here. That has, of course, a little to do with the traveling restrictions. We are almost at SEK 1 billion in acquired turnover during the year, and our goal is SEK 600 million-SEK 800 million, so we're well above target in Q3. For those who follow us, you know that we've also done acquisitions in Q4 already. The pipeline remains very strong at the moment. We're looking at a very good year when it comes to acquisitions. Maybe, Per, you want to take a few examples of the companies we've acquired.
Yeah. I can jump in here and take the next slide, slide number 13. I'd like, as Robin said, to highlight two examples of companies that we acquired during the quarter. The first one is in Sweden, VentPartner Group, has its headquarter in Örebro, and it has office in Närke, Västmanland, and Östergötland. This is our first major acquisition in the area of ventilation solutions, in that area, I would say. It further strengthens our position as a multidisciplinary supplier in Central Sweden, and I think that's very important that we have a strong position there. The other I want to highlight, the other company is MR Rör in Stockholm. The company primarily works with municipal authorities and their housing companies. We have framework agreements.
With its main focus on providing professional service, the acquisition is also in line with our strategy to grow in the service sector, as we have talked so much about. Other companies that we have acquired during the third quarter are FTX Teknik & Service and Boman El, both in Norrköping, Tornby El in Linköping, and Uudenmaan Lämpötekniikka in Helsinki. So, good examples of acquired companies. We can move to slide number 14, and maybe you take that, Robin.
Yes. Here, you see our financial target and dividend policy. As you can see, we are in line or exceeding our financial targets. Like the slide here shows also, we are ticking all the boxes. Looking at growth, we're well above the 10% annual growth over business cycle. We are also above when it comes to margin, so we are at 8.6% year- to- date, above. Looking at the capital structure, that also gives you a good understanding of our capabilities of continuing doing our M&A. We have good headroom here when it comes to our capital structure. Our cash conversion is on point, so to say. We are at 100%, which gives us a very good and unique possibility of using the cash that the business generates to acquire new companies. Our dividend policy stays unchanged, 30% of net profit.
Maybe one thing I would like to mention when it comes to this is that we frequently get asked the question, so why don't we raise our financial targets? Here, the answer is quite simple, and I'll explain it again. It has to do that these are financial targets that are made to kind of withhold both good times and bad times, and we are looking at the long-term cycles. That's why I think these are good financial targets. They can resist not only when it's good times, but also in some tougher conditions as well. We also like to hold our promises. I think that is what we've shown over the quarters as well. Per, I leave it to you to summarize.
Yeah. Thank you. I think we have shown that we hold what we promise for a long time now. To summarize on next slide, slide 15, we delivered a strong performance yet again in the third quarter. Even though society at large, as you well know, and the entire world, economy has been struggling with the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, and you are all well- aware about that. I think, still, the demand for technical installations has remained strong and stable. We also have been able to pursue a high rate of acquisition, having, as we have mentioned several times now, added six new companies to the group during the third quarter. Again, nevertheless, it's difficult to assess the market over time since the pandemic is still an ongoing concern. So, last slide, 16. Slide 16.
As you know by now, I like to wrap up these meetings with reference to song titles. This time I've chosen an Ashford & Simpson hit song from the 1980s, "Solid, solid as a rock and nothing's changed it." This is how the song goes and how I feel about Instalco and our situation now. Despite these challenging times, we remain strong. We demonstrated that even in a year as unusual as this, we are still able to grow, maintain our margins, and pay dividends. Instalco, solid as a rock. With that, I'd like to thank you all for joining in on this call, and I will now like to take your questions, please.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do wish to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad now. If you wish to withdraw your question, you may do so by pressing zero two to cancel. That is zero one to register for a question. We have a question from Carl Ragnerstam from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Hi, it's Carl here from Nordea. I have a few questions. Firstly, if you could give us any idea of the organic impact without the Nordics from the sort of phase out of less profitable business. Also, given that the margin is still down quite a bit year-over-year as well as sequentially, are you planning on further measures or are we still waiting for the materialization further on?
Okay. Starting with the organic growth or not. I mean, as Robin mentioned, especially in Norway, we are following our plans to tighten up and focus on margin instead of growth. That's just in line with our strategy in Norway to do that and focus on margin. We have raised the margin a little from quarter two in other Nordics. Also, I think we maintain good margins, and we have a high margin in Sweden, and we maintain it. I think we're following our strategy from the beginning of the year. Maybe , you have something to add to that, Robin.
I think it is hard call to say like how much we need to downsize the specific companies in Rest of Nordics to become kind of profitable at the level that we think is profitable. It's hard to give an estimate, but there are definitely significant cuts being made in a few of the companies. We are talking about, just to give an example, like companies going from SEK 150 million maybe down to SEK 100 million in turnover, and there are a few of them. It's hard to say now before we kind of, w e need to find the level of where they're very profitable and then kind of keep that level. It's hard to, beforehand, to say exactly where that level is. Is it SEK 100 million? Is it SEK 120 million? Or is it SEK 90 million even? You'll definitely see some cuts especially in a few of the Norwegian companies.
If that answers your question a bit.
Yeah. Are all cuts made, or should we expect even further cuts to be made in Q4?
The cuts are not really made. I mean, you have to understand the business that if we announce something this month, they've already taken orders for a few months ahead, so there is a lag in the process. If we announce something like in Q1, it takes a few months to kind of get that going. You haven't seen the full effect yet, no.
Some effect at least.
Yeah, some effect you would start to see due to the fact that a few of these companies are not allowed to take new projects in the same rate as they have done before. That comes back to your margin there discussion as well but, I mean, that you won't see the effect yet, because first of all, we need to kind of downsize a little bit. We also need to kind of make sure that the organization is at the right level, so saying that head office and everything follows with that. It takes a while before you will start seeing the margin effect as well in Rest of Nordics, I would say.
Okay, perfect. Also, on the backlog in Sweden, could you give us any idea of how much of the growth in the quarter was driven by large projects?
I think the main thing when it comes to order book, I think you can help me out here as well, Per. As you understand, we're not located at the same place anymore due to the fact of the corona situation. So, we have two different offices at the moment to secure this. But just to give you a quick understanding is that we took the large [El-El] project, the hospital project of SEK 700 million, and you've seen like a few hundred million rolling in from that in Q3. You saw a few in Q2, and you see a few in Q3. We don't, even if we had to announce the project earlier, we don't put it fully in the order book until it is signed. That's also why the delay came now in Q3.
On the exact number of how much of this growth that you see in Sweden is driven by large projects, we don't have that number.
You can also add to that, Robin, that we are going from what we call phase I to phase II in several larger projects, meaning that we are speeding up now. Phase II is more when we execute, and that means a difference. Then we put it into our order backlog. First, which is in phase I, is more design work, lower pace on that. Then when we step it up, then we put it in our order backlog when it comes to phase II.
Okay, perfect. The final one from my side also. Your recent move to employ quite a few consultants from AFRY. Could you please share some more information of that sort of venture? Also, I know that you like the idea of entering projects at the early stage or soft design phase. Should we expect you to start expanding the consultancy offering in the other Nordics as well, or how should we look at it?
Yeah. Definitely. The main purpose with this is to integrate design work and execution, and we integrate it in many ways. As you mentioned, of course, we can be in earlier stages in some projects. We also employ specialists in several areas when we employ consultants from different companies, of course. We can be closer to the customer. We can also take on more complex projects. We can also, the main purpose is, of course, to integrate the technical part, the more technical part and also with our ordinary work that we do installing. So, that's the main. There are several, I think, opportunities here, and we will continue to grow that part, and we will go to Finland and Norway as well with the consulting part.
Do you see the risk that the consultants, I mean, the big consultants, view your move as an attempt to sort of compete with them, and then which could negatively impact your relation with them?
I don't think so. I mean, it's natural, the part that we are, I mean, there is about 50% of the total costs for a production site today is installation, and i t's natural that we take a larger part of the design work with that so we can offer to the customer more better solutions. I don't think there has to be a conflict there between us and more purely consultant companies. I think we can live together with that, and I think we can have an understanding for each other's part on the project. I mean, we are their customer as well, and we will be in the future. So, we are living side by side. I don't think this will interrupt that.
Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.
I remind you that if you want to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad now. Our next question comes from the line of Stefan Andersson from SEB. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thank you. A few questions from me. Just trying to understand the organic drop there. In Q2, Norway, for instance, or also Finland were closed down to some extent, and kids were home from school, and we had all that as an impact, calling it sick leave, I guess. I would have expected less negative effect from that during the third quarter, some easing, really some improvements. Would you say that the further deterioration here is more related to the downsizing of some of the international operations, or am I misunderstanding the situation?
I can comment a little bit about the sick leave situation. You also have to understand that, I mean, there are a lot of restrictions, not only lockdown, but in Norway, if you have one person contaminated of COVID in the construction site, you need to put the rest of your people in quarantine as well. We have been, quite unfortunately, in a few cases where we had to put a lot of people into quarantines, like self-quarantine, and that has affected us, and that is also what you see in the sick leave numbers. I guess we were luckier than many companies in Q2 and did not have as much sick leave, but instead, we got a lot of sick leave in Q3, and m ainly due to the fact that we had to put people into quarantine.
We are running a business where you cannot work from home, in much extent. Me, Per, and a few others, we might be able to work from home, but the rest of the 3,600 people that we have employed are not able to work from home, so I think we'll see some higher sick leave numbers than we are used to due to the fact. Also, we want to take our stand for society as well, and not some people that might be sick to work as well. I don't know if you want to add anything to that, Per, or you agree with me?
No, I think that that's right. I mean, we are taking care and we have strict rules when to go to work or not. We are trying to take care of our employees, of course. I think we are doing the right thing there. I think we are down on sales, so we are down to normal figures now when it comes to sick leave. I think we have done the right thing.
Just a follow-up on that, does that mean that you're growing again in the fourth quarter organically?
We are very focused on growing organically. As I just said, I think we are looking, for the first nine months, we have grown with about 4.5%. I'm rather satisfied with that. We are not looking into each quarter organic growth or not, but we have a strong, I mean, w e were doing a lot with cooperations between the companies, and that will lead to organic growth. Of course, it can go up and down. If you look just to a quarter, I can't assess next quarter or even how it was this quarter, third quarter. But in the long term, I'm absolutely sure that we will grow organically because that's the fundamental of the Instalco model. With the close cooperation between the companies helping each other, best practice and all that, we will grow in the long-term perspective, organically as well.
But we don't focus on it. It's better to, as Robin mentioned in Norway, to decrease the turnover a little and focus on margin, and then from that point of view, going upwards.
Okay. On that topic, could you, in any way, give us a little bit of indication of the magnitude of downsizing we're talking about in Norway? Are we talking about 2% revenues or 10%? Just so we understand what we're talking about here.
Yeah. I think I'll say the same to you as I said to Carl just a few minutes ago. I mean, it's hard to say how many percent we'll downsize. We need to find the level of where the company can turn over our 8% in margin that we demand from our subsidiaries. Until we find that point, it's very hard to say where that is. If it's a SEK 150 million company, is that at SEK 120 million? Is it at SEK 100 million? Is it at SEK 90 million? It's very hard beforehand to say, but you will definitely see a few companies in Norway where we need to cut probably SEK 50 million, SEK 60 million in turnover, and a few of them. I think that is coming.
Robin, what we can add to that straightforward is we're talking about two companies. Two companies, I think we have 13 or 14 companies now in Norway, and w e're talking about two companies. You can assess it almost yourself, Stefan, how much that will be, as Robin mentioned the figure there. We will not say if it's 2% or 5% or whatever. We'll wait and see, and we will take it slowly and from what is a level that we think and where the management can handle the situation and the levels from.
Yeah. No, that's fine. Thank you. I mean it was possible in the end then. Just , I mean, my problem was I didn't know if you were talking about 50% or 10%.
No, no, no.
We didn't know anything, and that's what we're trying to figure out. Thank you for that.
No. You are more close to the truth when you say 2% something, but of course, not 60% or something like that.
That's good. I think I got what I needed there. Then, another question is, normally we've seen rather good pickup in margins into the fourth quarter. Per, during the presentation, you might have said, or I might have misunderstood, I don't know, but you were a little bit saying that Q3 in Sweden was very strong. Could you maybe, from that point of view, help out a little bit with that kind of quarterly seasonality that we are used to? Is it less of that in this year or because of a very good Q3, or should we still hope for that kind of normal pattern?
As you can see, we went to slide number seven, I think , we had the quarterly results. As you can see, normally, quarter number four is the strongest. Also, we can see this year that it's more, even between the quarters, I mean, q uarter two and quarter three was almost at exact the same level, q uarter one was maybe higher than normal, but ordinary quarter four is the strongest, absolutely. Of course, we hope for that, but we also have to take in consideration that the ongoing pandemic and other things. As usual, we can't promise anything, but usually, it's the strongest quarter.
Sorry, I forgot to ask about the Norwegian side there. Do you expect any charges or cost associated with the downsizing, or is it done?
No. It's operational and it's just in what we do. Of course, we will reduce some overhead costs during this period, but no unexpected.
No major cost.
No major cost.
On that topic of non-recurring items, looking back, you've had transaction costs on that line and also now, you commented to Carl Ragnerstam about the earn- out adjustments. Could you maybe, I mean, if you had, first, you did some positive revisions. You had a lower earn-out than you thought in last quarter, now you have some other companies, I guess, that are doing better than you thought, you had to move it up. I mean, is this something you really need to do on a quarterly basis or, seems like something you could do annually really, but I don't know. It should be expected going forward as well, ups and downs in that number?
Yeah, I mean, we've tried to cope here. We have some people that want us to do it quarterly or even monthly. We have our auditing committee that wants it quarterly. Ourselves, we think it's a lot of ups and downs. It's an ongoing discussion within the companies, I'd say, Stefan. We have many stakeholders here to also, how shall I say, try to please here. You might be one of those who thinks that it's unnecessary to do quarterly, but we also have a few that wants it quarterly. Yes, it is a little, we're between a hard place and a rock, or what do you say?
It will be quarterly going forward, most likely?
Yes. Going forward, as it looks now, it will be quarterly. Just as you say, I mean, you'll see fluctuations, ups and downs, depending on a lot of the prognosis that the company gives us, and how we also value it. We try to do as a professional evaluation as possible. I think this quarter, we downsized a few and upsized a few, so to say, when it comes to earn-outs.
Yep. A small thing. I don't think it's very important, but just noticed that in the quarter, maybe the working capital was a little bit soft. It seems to be tying up a little bit more money. Is there something specific in there or?
No, it is that last quarter was very good, and we had a lot of, oh, the English word now, sorry.
For [Foreign language].
Invoicing.
Yeah, like.
Cancelling the invoicing.
Yes. Thank you. Was not as high as last quarter, so t hat's the main effect. Also, that we had to pay out all the vacation pay. That's also affecting it.
Yep. Okay. That was all from me. Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of [Jonas Jonsson]. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Okay. Hi there, Per and Robin.
Hi.
Hi. I had a question on the sick leave, and you mentioned the impact of that, and you mentioned the low level of production that has led to low revenues, but is there any element of a delay? I mean, that production is sort of moved into Q4, or are these revenues basically gone?
I would say there are some delays, a bsolutely. Our customers is a little bit more cautious now, and there are delays, a bsolutely. That has affected us a bit, a bsolutely.
Okay.
When it comes to those 3%, as we mentioned, a lot of them will probably be picked up, but we're not sure that it's us all that we have to, I mean, a few of them are, of course, gone due to the fact that we maybe had to rent in someone else to do the job, if we couldn't perform it, and then the revenue went to someone else because we had to rent someone to do it.
Okay. Sure.
But it's hard to say how much. Yes.
Okay.
A few of them might be spilling over to Q4, but a part of it is gone, I guess.
Also, I mean, the cash flow, we were into that, the working capital, and apart from that and the fluctuations from quarter to quarter, I mean, basically this year so far, you're more or less self-financed, in terms of operating cash flow. I mean, the acquisitions you make are basically self-financed. That also means that your net debt is roughly at SEK 1 billion, and that is very far away from the targets. Looking a bit ahead now, I mean, the cash flow position should improve. You're still making new acquisitions that are contributing to the cash flow. Your debt level is low. You have your targets for acquisitions. Would you consider doing something? Sooner or later, that would be an issue for you. I mean, you will be very cash generative. Would you be willing to do something bigger?
I was thinking more in terms of another geography, maybe another business area, that maybe could be a little bit more expensive, but on the other hand, could increase your margins in general. How are you looking on that?
We are very open-minded when it comes to new countries or new geographic areas or broadening our offering or bidding. But we have to wait to the right time. I think the timing has to be right. We are open-minded for it, and we will look into new geographic areas and also, as I mentioned, new specific areas. We have talked about that before. We are close to several other business areas like, for example, alarm and security and other things. I think that's a possibility for us. It's an important study that we will do now and a strategic decision as well. We will discuss that. We had a board meeting, of course, today, and we discussed it there. As I said, we are very open for it.
It's in line with our discussions now to broaden and to look into new geographic areas.
What is determining the timing of that?
I think.
You said that you're waiting for the right timing.
Yeah. The right timing is when we've found the right management, when we have a stable company or platform companies in new geographic areas that we can feel it have the right fit for Instalco. They are stable. We have a good management team there. That's how Instalco started, and that's the way we want to grow into new areas. Of course, it's also a matter of price. You have noticed that we acquire companies 4x to maybe 4x-5x EBITDA, 4x-6x maybe EBITDA sometimes. That's also a part that we want to continue with, and also what we are ready to pay for a company.
Sure.
So, it's a puzzle.
Okay. Thanks a lot.
There are no further questions registered, so I am back to the speakers for any closing remarks.
We got just a few questions from the audience by the web r egarding consultancy and sustainability; I'll try to summarize them. First, the consultancy idea. Is it likely that we will see also acquisitions, larger acquisitions within the consultancy business?
Not larger acquisitions. Smaller acquisitions, absolutely, but not larger acquisitions. Smaller acquisitions where we can find companies, consulting companies that fits into our strategy, but that means they are smaller and more specialized, not general or larger companies.
The other few questions about sustainability, if I summarize them, are that the sustainability is getting more and more important. Will that be an advantage or disadvantage for Instalco in the future? Where are Instalco standing here at the moment?
I will say it's an advantage. We are working very, very hard with this. We launched our sustainability program during spring, summer, and now, at fall as well. We are working very hard with this. We are in the middle of energy savings programs and sustainability in every matter. I think we can have a large advantage in this because we have started early with it, and also, I think we have come a long way. We are ready to take that position as a company that will be in the middle of this circle.
Okay, no further questions from the web.
Okay. Thank you very much for joining in and thank you very much. We will stop there and say hi to you all. Thank you very much.