Earnings Call: Q1 2017

Apr 27, 2017

Good morning, and welcome to the presentation of Kinnevik's results for the Q1 2017. I am Joakim Andersson, Acting CEO and CFO. And with me today is Chris Bischoff, our Senior Investment Director and Tuohund Litzen, our Director of Corporate Communication. During the Q1 of 2017, we continued to execute on our strategy. Among others, we invested in a new digital consumer health care company based in the U. S, Livongo. We continued to rationalize our portfolio by selling half our stake in Rocket Internet and divested Metro Sweden. We also agreed to support Black Earth Farming's asset sale. We remained highly focused on supporting all our portfolio companies, both public and private, in their strategy execution. As you will have seen in the JACE report, we had a strong quarter with net asset value up 10% to SEK79,500,000,000 driven by the strong performance, particularly in Millicom and Tele2. Furthermore, this morning, we announced having acquired 18.5 percent of Com Hem for a total consideration of $3,700,000,000 Com Hem has a very attractive market position in the Swedish broadband and TV market, and the shareholding will be complementary to our existing companies in the communications and entertainment sectors in the Nordics. We will start today by taking you through a presentation of the results. And after that, we are happy to answer any questions you may have. Turning over to Page 3. We have summarized the key highlights of the Q1 of this year. Our operating companies had strong performance during the quarter. Notably, our fashion e commerce companies are executing according to plan with Zalando expanding its businesses profitably while investing to improve the customer experience and supply proposition. Our communication and entertainment assets continue to progress on their strategic transformations as evidenced this quarter by continued improved operational efficiencies and exit of non core assets by both Millicom and MTG. Our financial services businesses, Betterment in particular, continue to grow and are doing so by leveraging strategic partnerships in their respective markets. We made total divestments of $2,100,000,000 this quarter, whereof the majority from the sale of half our shareholding in Rocket Internet. In addition to the investment in Livongo, which is our 2nd investment in digital healthcare, we also showed our continued support for Babylon by participating in their latest funding round. In conclusion, as I said earlier, our NAV is up 10% in the quarter, driven by the public portfolio, and we have a very strong balance sheet with $400,000,000 in net cash. Let's now turn to Page 4 and some background information on our most recent investment, the one that was announced this morning. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, Kinnevik has today announced that we have acquired 18.5 percent of Com Hem from BC Partners for DKK3.7 billion or DKK110 per share. As a substantial part of Kinnevik's current portfolio is in communications and entertainment within the Nordics, it is natural for Kinnevik to evaluate investment opportunities within this region and these sectors. Com Hem has a very interesting strategic proposition with TV, telephony and high speed Internet access to Swedish homes and businesses. The acquisition enables Kinnevik to take a leading position in an asset that is complementing our existing mobile and media companies. We will finance this investment with existing cash and by drawing on existing financing facilities and the leverage post transaction will be around 4%, which is well within our target. Turning now to the first section of this presentation on Page 6. The public part of our portfolio accounts for 85% of the portfolio value and is therefore a major driver of value creation. Zalando, Tele2 and MTG all delivered healthy growth with MTG reporting record 1st quarter revenues. Tele2 showed clear improvements both in profitability and in cash flow generation. Millicom was held back by a weak quarter in Africa, but continued the rapid build out of its broadband network in Latin America. Overall, we are very pleased with the development in our public companies during the quarter. On the next page, Page 7, we have outlined 3 concrete examples of how our public companies execute their strategies. Millicom and MTG both exited non core assets in Africa and the Baltics, respectively. For Millicom, this is in line with the strategy to reconfigure its business by rapidly growing mobile data and cable revenue in Latin America, while monetizing the significant value created in other business lines and regions. MTG continues its transformation into global digital entertainer by reallocating capital from Baltic and Czech TV assets into esports and gaming among others. As announced on Tuesday this week, Clearo Group is divesting Lekmir to Baby Shop in order to focus on its core business areas, marketplace, fashion and financial services. Activity remains high in our public companies as these transactions are clear examples of. We will now spend some time on the performance of our private companies. And as such, I would like to hand over to Chris Bischoff, our Senior Investment Director. Thank you, Joakim. I'm going to touch on, as Joakim mentioned, the next steps we're taking in the building of our digital health vertical and the continued rationalization of our portfolio to allow us to focus our resources on digital brands that we believe we can grow. Healthcare is a US8 $1,000,000,000,000 sector and it's one that's facing significant challenges, aging populations, increasing chronic diseases and mounting costs in just a few of these problems. We believe technology can make health care more effective, more efficient and more equitable. However, this will take time as less than 1% of health care spend is currently digital. We see 3 big shifts driving adoption of digital, only one of which is technology. Firstly, payers are demanding better outcomes for the same price. Secondly, consumers are demanding more control over their own health. And finally, of course, technological advances, meaning the AI and other tools are beginning to deliver at least as good, if not better outcomes, that frankly, at the costs. We see the potential to create digital platforms that address the evolving needs of both payers and consumers, both in developed and in developing markets. Our digital health care strategy is to build large stakes in a small number of successful companies. We've started with 2 important consumer health sectors: primary care, where we can address general low frequency needs of the whole population and act as a gateway to further care and chronic care where we can address specific high frequency needs of a small share of the population. We're very excited to announce that we co led Babylon's £50,000,000 Series B round with a further £70,000,000 investment. As you recall, we led the Series A round in January last year. In SoDoi, we increased our state to 20% and now the largest outside investor in the company. Babylon is a U. K.-based primary care platform that combines the latest advances in artificial intelligence with human doctors to provide accessible, accurate, affordable and importantly, individualized health care. The company launched an automated triage tool last year that is proven to be as fast and accurate as a doctor or a nurse at a fraction of the cost. The tool is now helping the U. K. Stretch Napa Health Service handle patient requests to its urgent care line in a trial across over 1,000,000 patients. Babylon is also developing an automated diagnosis product poised to help doctors to expand their reach and capability, which we see as a potential step change for the U. K. Digital health landscape. Babylon has around 800,000 registered users across its footprint, more than 5x as much as when we first invested last January. Secondly, we co led a $52,500,000 round in March 'seventeen in Livongo, which as Jurek mentioned is a California based chronic disease management platform. Livongo today provides diabetes patients with personalized end to end services to manage their diabetes. It's from the measurement of blood glucose levels to real time contextual feedback and access to Lifeco's gene. Diabetes is one of the largest and fastest growing chronic conditions globally and in the U. S. Alone is approaching 1 in 10 people. The company helps nearly 35,000 members by corporate schemes to manage their diabetes and has proven ability to sustainably decrease the largest health care cost drivers for its corporate clients. Nivongo now works with over half of the Fortune 500 companies sorry, Fortune 100 Companies. We see the diabetes as a path to a greater coverage of comorbidities. Over 70% of people over the age of 50 have other comorbidities, and the Bongo's platform is ideally placed to expand and create a holistic service offering across such conditions. If we move forward beyond those two investments, we also took the steps, as Joakim mentioned, to rationalize the portfolio. He covered off the divestiture of part of our stake in Rocket, which realized an attractive return for our investors. And as part of our intention to reduce the number of companies and further concentrate our resources, we also divested Metro Sweden during the quarter and agreed to support Black Earth Farming's asset sales. I'll now hand back to Jorgen. Thank you, Chris. So turning now to look at our financial position. We will start with the capital markets trends on Page 14. Sorry, 15, it should be. Page 15. The valuation of our businesses is driven by 3 components: operational development, general equity market conditions and the translation of foreign currencies. Now that we have covered the operational performance, I'd like to turn over to the equity market and currency developments. On Page 15, you can to the left see a generally strong development in the key equity indexes over the quarter, in particular for both European and Emerging Market Telcos. E commerce traded sideways to slight positive as also reflected in Zalando's share price during the quarter, which was up 4%. On the right hand side of the slide, we have shown a selection of currencies that all point to weakening of the SEK during the Q1, obviously, a context that should have a positive impact on the Kinnevik portfolio. With this backdrop, solid performance in our operating companies and generally favorable equity and currency markets, I will now go on to talk about what this meant for the valuation of Kinnevik's assets in the Q1. On Page 16, we have outlined the detailed information on the valuation of our largest private companies. On a consolidated basis, you can see on the bottom line that we have a fair value of $12,000,000,000 for our unlisted assets, a value that remains overall stable during the quarter. At the top, we have our largest private asset, Global Fashion Group. And still in absence of any material transactions, we continue to value our shares in GFG on a weighted revenue multiple and this time of 1.3 times. On page 17, adding the value of the private investments to that of our public companies, we get to a total net asset value of €79,500,000,000 at the end of the quarter, which corresponds to an increase by 10%, led by our telecom assets and in particular Millicom with an increase in value of DKK4.1 billion. Our NAV per share consequently came up from DKK 263 to DKK289 during the quarter. As of yesterday, our NAV has increased a further 2% and NAV per share was DKK296, an acknowledgment of the very strong first quarter performance of our large listed companies. Overall, our NAD is up by 12% so far this year. Turning to Page 18. This is the final slide in this section is, as usual, the summary of our investment activities and the overview of our financial position. During the Q1, we made net divestments of $1,900,000,000 the majority from our share sale in Rocket Internet, which puts us in a net cash position of $447,000,000 at quarterend. We issued a SEK1 1,000,000,000 bond in the Swedish market during the quarter, taking advantage of the favorable funding conditions and further increasing our financial flexibility. Let's now conclude this presentation by summarizing the key priorities for 2017 on Page 20. As our launch companies are the main driver for value creation at Kinnevik, our top priority is to grow and protect our value. Each company has a clear strategic agenda, and we will continue to work hard in 2017 to ensure they all deliver on their respective priorities. Similarly, our investment team remains firmly focused on driving sustainable growth in our private portfolio. Furthermore, a key priority for 2017 is to ensure we find new exciting companies, companies that will complement our existing portfolio. And as I said earlier, we announced one of those companies today and we have made the Livongo investment earlier this year. Delivering on our targets would, however, not be possible with our top talent. Therefore, we seek to attract, retain and reward talent in line with Kinnevik's value creation, And we aim to support a strong culture and brand, both through proactive and transparent communication with all our stakeholders. In short, we are very pleased with the Q1 of 2017 and look forward to executing our strategy throughout the rest of the year. As a final remark, we will host our Annual General Meeting on 8th May, and I look forward to meeting many of you shareholders there. Thank you very much. And let's now open it up for questions. Thank you. The first question comes from Elias Tors from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Thank you. Elias Poscha from Nordea. Good morning. Do you see any synergies between Com Hem and your older holdings, Tele2 and MTG? And if so, how could this be extracted as a minority owner? Elias, thank you for the question. Well, as you understand, this is an investment that we are making from Finnvik as a minority investment into Com Hem. Typically, you would be able to extract synergies if you would consolidate businesses rather than if you have the investment theme with minority stakes. So I would say you shouldn't view this investment as part to achieve synergies, but rather as making a standalone investment into a company that we think is very interesting and complementary to our existing portfolio. All right. Could you update us on the search for a new CEO? Well, yes, I can. I can give the update that the work is still ongoing as far as I know. This is a board led process, as you know. And I'm sure as soon as the board reach a conclusion, Kinnevik will communicate that to the market. The next question comes from Victor Holguin from SEB. I have a few questions relating to the previous one as well. Could you just comment on the timing here? I mean, I suppose that you've been contacted several times regarding Com Hem and why you choose to do this now. And then maybe if you can also comment on I read, of course, that and you say that Entegiteletru and CompareMore separate companies will remain that way and so on. But if you were to elaborate a bit, in your mind, do you see that Com Hem and Tele2 have more in common in the future or Com Hem and MTG have more in common in the future? So maybe not related to synergies, but more related to where you think you can see partnerships and so on? And then also, do you still believe in a mobile only strategy for Tele2? And then lastly, how is your has this been catalyzed in any way from the recent questions. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for the questions. I'll try to deal with them in the order that you put them. So first one, if I got it right, so timing, why now? As I said, Kinnevik is a large investor in these sectors and subsectors in the Nordics. And as such, we obviously stay close to the developments, keep an eye on what's happening there and what investment opportunities there are. Com Hem is a company that we have kept an eye on for quite some time. And based on the ownership structure of that company and based on the fact that BC Partners in February sold down, we thought that they might be sellers for the remaining stake as well. So we've been and that's I mean, that's the background. We've been in a discussion with them the last couple of days and the opportunity was here now and we decided to pursue it and execute on it. On the next one, if we see that Tele2 has more in common with Com Hem than MTG or vice versa, I think that these companies obviously know each other. There are some commercial partnerships already established as the companies have announced, as you can understand. There is obviously one, just to give an example, there is a partnership between MTG and Com Hem on content as MTG has acquired exclusive content and then have commercial partnerships with all the distributors for them to access it or for MTG to access the consumers. I'm sure that those discussions on commercial partnerships will continue. And I'm not really in the position to say if Tele2 would benefit or if for this from this or not. I would also say that, I mean, these companies operate on a stand alone basis with our own boards. And regardless if Genivik Kinnevik is the main shareholder of any of these 3, the discussions will continue on a company level. The third question was a question about Tele2 strategy and their connectivity strategy. I actually I don't have a view. We have a strong belief that Tele2 will continue to execute the strategy that is the most appropriate one for them based on where they are and what they think about the future. And the 4th question relating to MVNO and the what's happened the last that's a couple of days probably. Obviously, we've read the communication from all the telecom operators. We've read what's been written about this. It hasn't had any impact on our view on this transaction that we announced this morning. Was that clear enough? Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Magnus Raman from SHB. Magnus Rohmann here. I have firstly three questions on Com Hem. Who was the adviser for you in the transaction? Number 2, were there any other bidders in the transaction to your knowledge? And then number 3, how do you plan to finance the acquisition? Can you repeat the second question? Sorry, Magnus. Yes. The second was, were there any other bidders in the transaction to your knowledge? Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Okay. So the first one, adviser. No advisers to Kinnevik. We have a very competent team with relevant backgrounds. Discussion, And I mean, this is also a discussion bilateral discussion we had with the sellers. If they had separate discussion or pilot discussions, I can't comment on. I don't know. I don't obviously, I don't have full transparency there. The third one was on financing. So we ended the quarter in a net cash position of 400,000,000 dollars and we will finance this by using the gross cash position we have. We will finance it through drawing on existing credit facilities we have. So after we have closed this deal, we our leverage will be at for around 4% of the portfolio value, So still well within the target of 10%. Yes. And that leads me to the next question following on there. As you said, it's plenty of room to 10% ceiling on leverage. And relating to your dividend, I guess, I just want your confirmation that there should be no scare for cutback in dividend levels. And maybe also if you can confirm that the dividend gap between incoming and outgoing dividend, which has been around €350,000,000 should decrease by around €200,000,000 from the additional dividend sort of incoming dividend you will receive from Com Hem. So the gap there would decline to some SEK 150,000,000. Is that correct? Yes. So dividend gap, you're probably right. I haven't really done the math there, but you're probably right. So this is Com Hem is obviously adding cash flows and dividends to us. So you're probably right there. On the leverage target and our new leverage, we are very committed to the dividend policy and I don't see any risks of changing that based on this transaction. We are still at a very low leverage level even post this transaction. Thank you. I just have one final question on the Rocket Internet holding. Could you remind us what the lockup is currently for you on the remaining stake there? So it was a 3 month lockup based on when we executed the transaction, so quite customary. We executed it in the beginning of February, so still a couple of weeks to go, I think. I can get back to you with a date if you want. No, that's fine. But that would imply I mean, if you would take that out, it would imply gearing coming down to maybe 2% or something like that? Yes. I mean we obviously don't comment on any future transactions. So but the value would probably be right. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Stefan Wort from Swedbank. Please go ahead. Your line is open. My questions were also related mostly to the gearing of dividend outlook, etcetera, which has been somewhat answered here. But if you could just give some further details on how you look on the investment forecast for this year in relation to the Com Hem investments, obviously? And also, how do you view with this rather large investment if it's if you will scale back on investments in other areas in the over the next couple of years. Also another issue, it's looking at Zalando. In my model, it looks like there will be free cash flow positive for 2017. Is it reasonable to expect Zalando to start distributing maybe in the next couple of years or so, if you could comment anything on that development. Thank you, Stefan. So on leverage and investment activity, I don't think you should expect our activity level to change based on this morning's transaction. So we will continue work hard, look at different opportunities that are out there. The guidance that we have provided is just around well, just but it's around the leverage target. So we are we will stay below the 10% leverage. You remember probably last quarter we said that we will probably continue on the same level of activity as last year. But we continue and work hard to identify and find exciting investments such as this is that we announced this morning. On the Zalando then, moving on, and the free cash flow and the forecast there and potential for dividends, if I understood you right, I mean, that's definitely up to the Zalando board to work on that. But I wouldn't expect them to start paying dividends anytime soon. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Ms. Lainacker from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Great. Hi. Thank you. So just to follow-up on the investment activity question as well. How should we look at the sectors that you may be interested in going forward? Because I guess with the Com Hem acquisition, it seems like you're going back to that infrastructure heavy sort of telco or broadband based asset. And you have also made investments in the digital consumer this year as well. So going forward, would you be more focused on the digital consumer side of things or would you be looking at the more high EBITDA margin dividend paying assets as with Com Hem? That was my first question. And secondly, I'd like to understand a bit more the reasoning behind lowering the multiple on Global Fashion Group. Is it just based on the total e commerce space? Or was there another reason as to how you viewed that particular valuation? Sure. Thank you. So I think the acquisition or the investment that we made this morning was a very interesting one for us, as I said, as it complements our TNT portfolio in the Nordic region. I think you shouldn't are changing our view or our investment strategy. We continue to spend time on those sectors that we've said before, the sectors that we have invested in and adjacent sectors or subsectors. Regarding stage, we also continue to focus a lot on the growth stage, what we talked about earlier. But obviously, we are open minded and can invest earlier and also later in the more mature businesses. However, I mean these businesses, the more mature businesses, if you call it that and looking at MTG, Tele2 and Com Hem, obviously, there's a lot of innovation going on as well inside those businesses. But no, you shouldn't conclude and say that Kinnevik going for infrastructure investments. It will continue to be around digital consumers and we obviously acknowledge also that the connectivity is an important stepping stone to achieve digitalization. And again, this the Com Hem asset is very complementary and very logical for Kinnevik to make. So that's probably the first one. The second one around GFG. So the approach we have is that we have a peer group which you can pick up from the quarterly report in the notes. We have a peer group for all our e commerce businesses and in this case, it's fashion. We look at the multiple they are trading at and then we try to assess how that fits on our businesses. For GFG, we then use kind of a sum of the parts approach where we have different multiples for the different assets in GFG. And then the 1.3x is an average where we have applied a discount level towards the peer group that we have because the peer group is done Western or more mature companies. Was that the answer to your question? Absolutely. Thank you. Okay, great. Thanks. Thank you. The next question comes from Felicity Smith from Hampshire Hall Asset Management. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you. Good morning. You've been very clear about articulating the strategy and the sort of companies you want to invest in. But I just wondered, how do you think about the returns you expect? And how do you balance the need for some of those companies to produce decent cash flows and dividends with some of those earlier stage investments? And are there and at what stage do you review and say this isn't working, we need to reduce or it's time to take profits? Thank you. It's a very, very good question and very important, a big question as well. But yes, so of course, we every time when we make or consider making an investment, we do make assumptions around the minimum or the required return that we are looking for in order to make the investment. And that return then obviously differs depending on geographies and stage and etcetera. When we think about the portfolio that we have, then again back to what I said, so we have today a portfolio with companies, quite early stage companies. And then we have on the other side of the spectrum, more mature companies. So the more mature companies is then also probably quite cash generative, whilst the other category or other side, they are more cash consuming. So you're perfectly right that we are looking to find an appropriate balance both on cash the cash generative side, bearing in mind our leverage target as well, but also on the risk side. So we don't want to put all eggs in the very, very early stage. At the same time, we don't want to put all eggs in the very, very late stage. So it's a mix, but we are quite pragmatic as well on the mix. So we evaluate all the investment opportunities on a standalone basis. If we think there is a fit with Schindlerich and our criteria, then we consider it and in some cases, we go all the way like this morning with Com Hem. Okay. And just as a follow-up, I mean, obviously, we've been through a very period of very favorable interest rates. If that cycle starts to change, would we expect the pace of investments to come down, perhaps more biased to more cash generative business and fewer early stage investments? No, I wouldn't say that. It's certainly a factor to consider, but there are so many other factors that we consider. So no, it's not as important. Okay. But there are no sort of parameters we can look at to sort of say you wouldn't want the mature portfolio to exceed x percent of the value or anything like that so that? No, no, that's no, you should nothing around that. So I mean the two numbers that we have in this context is around the leverage target of 10% maximum of the portfolio value. And then also what we've said based on your comment around the favorable interest rate environment is that we aim to deliver to all our shareholders 10% to 12% over a cycle in return. So that's probably the framework in a way. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Helmer Alber from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you. Just first question on Com Hem. You generally are interested in companies that are high growth, I would say. Where do you see growth in Com Hem? Do you see it in the new offers? Or do you see it in potential acquisitions? Or what sort of view there? Thank you. So I mean, I think we have they have a very good business, a very solid business with I think they're around the mid digit mid single digit growth as well on for both revenues and EBITDA. I think what we are looking at and what we are understanding is that, for instance, acquisition of Box that they made earlier last or last year, mid last year, is something that they are working on where they are trying to convert the consumers onto their fiber and then IPTV offerings. So that's clearly a growth opportunity, I would say. But otherwise, I mean, I think they have a solid business and also very cash generative business and very attractive assets and back to the reasons why we think this is interesting for Kinnevik as an investment as well. Okay. And then just a curious question on the quicker. I mean it seems to be developing very well in terms of growth, but your valuation has been pretty much the same for several quarters now. Why isn't it increasing? Sorry to interrupt you, but it's very difficult to hear you. Okay. Let's try again. I was wondering about your DCF evaluation on Quicker. I mean, the Quicker seems to be developing very well, but your DCF valuation is pretty much staying the same. Should it be increasing if Quicker is doing well? So yes, I mean the valuation is based on the DCF and the DCF then uses the business plan that we have been providing. So yes, it's fairly stable. Chris, would you mind commenting a bit more on the operational performance of Quikr? Look, yes, I think we have to take into account it's Chris. I think we have to take into account the macro environment in India where, yes, there's a positive tailwind, but there's also been some headwinds in the shape of demonetization. It remains an early stage market. So we look at the cost of capital as well as the business plan for the business. So we feel pretty comfortable in terms of the value as where it is for the moment. Thank you. The next question comes from Paolo Matoruti from Towerhouse Apartments. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes, good morning and thank you for taking my call. With regards to the Com Hem acquisition, if you look at the history of fixed and mobile consolidation, it has been historically able to unlock a large amount of capital and operational synergies. In this case, when looking at the senior management team, there is quite a lot of, I would say, history between people at Tele2 and people at Com Hem that goes back from the Swedish market, but even prior to that into the Virgin Media experience. So the quality of the people and the management to potentially unlock this type of synergies is there and is very high. How do you see the potential to extract value without combining the control of these 2 companies? And whether there is something that commercially can be viable or whether there is the need for a much deeper combination of the assets? Yes. Thank you. I think it relates a little bit back to what I said earlier as well. I mean we have made this investment on a standalone Obviously, we Obviously, we also acknowledge and see the convergence trends having both fixed mobile and content media and different trends all over the globe. And we also see different companies acting differently upon it. I think what we do see from our portfolio and our perspective as investor into these businesses, we have today a company within the mobile. We have a company within the media or digital entertainment. And in a way, we were lacking the fixed piece of this. And then we thought when this opportunity was given that Com Hem fulfills that for us. So that's back to the reason why we made the Com Hem investment. I mean that's the plan. We have a standalone plan Com Hem as we have for Tele2 and MTG and then back to the commercial partnerships that is in place and that they are working on a daily basis between the companies probably. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is a follow-up question from Magnus Raman from SHB. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you. Yes, just on Com Hem again. I mean, if you in your view, why hasn't there been any significant partnership between Tele2 and Com Hem today if they make commercial and financial sense? And also, do you see an MVNO agreement between the 2 companies having become more likely posted transactions? So thank you, Magnus. So no, I don't have any comments to your first well, I don't have any comments to your second either. I think these questions should be put forward to different boards, I guess, to the companies. It's the board that will deal with that for them. So actually, sorry, Magnus, but I don't have any comments to the questions. Fair enough. Thank you. The next question comes from Stefan Gafford from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Open. Yes, hello. Sorry if I didn't hear the previous question. But I just reacted to your comment that you have assets in the media, in the mobile and that you lack the fixed business and now you complement this. But I mean from an owner perspective, this is only meaningful if you combine these three assets. And now you don't get that from being a minority owner. I mean, the only thing I can see makes sense is that this is a defensive move, keeping the option that you can combine these assets in the future. Just your comment on this. Yes. Thank you, Stefan. So yes, my comment would be that, well, firstly, you've seen for a number of years these trends playing out differently, as I said, these convergence trends. And you've also seen that we have managed to run Tele2 and MTG on a standalone basis separate from each other quite successfully, we would say. So I think you shouldn't look at the Com Hem investment in any other way. Obviously, you could argue that you could realize synergies from a combination of different companies, but that's not the plan. So this is an opportunity that we had to buy the 18.5% in Com Hem. And again, I mean, very solid company, cash flow generative and complementary. We will run it as a standalone company going forward as an investment from Finnequik. Thank you. There appear to be no further questions. I return the conference back to you. Very good. So thank you very much for all the questions. Very good questions. And thank you for listening. As a reminder, we would like to inform you that we will report our Q2 results on the 21st July. Thank you again and have a nice day.