Good day. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Nobina Q1 Report 2021/2022 conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer ses sion. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star and one on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. If you require any further assistance please press star ad zero. I would like to hand the conference over to speaker for today, Magnus Rosén . Please go ahead.
Good morning from my part also to you, ladies and gentlemen. This is the result presentation from Nobina Q1. We had a net sales which is more than 30% better than last year, most of it organic also. Main reasons, of course, the Samtrans COVID-19 business that we've been talking about before. We also have some retroactive revenue into the result and to the top line. We can also say that we have pretty weak comparables since last year when we didn't have any COVID-19 agreements with the PTAs, or for that matter, basically no Samtrans COVID business at all. EBITA SEK 255 million, EBIT adjusted SEK 210 million, which is 4x as good as last time. Basically the same things holds for the result. Of course, weak comparables from last year. Also then no COVID-19 business within Samtrans.
On the other hand, now we have a strong COVID-19 business in Samtrans during the last quarter. We also have the retroactive revenue of SEK 35 million, and that basically falls right through to the results. We have a cash flow which is SEK 108 million compared to last year, SEK 405 million, but that's quite normal, I would say. Strong competitive movement at Momentum at the time. We have won new contracts during the period for SEK 6.7 billion. We were also awarded a new extended contract with the City of Stockholm, which is the base, you could say, for Samtrans business, and where they have been very strong already from the beginning. We won four out of six contracts, and there was a cap on that and we couldn't win more. It was SEK 240 million, two year contracts with extension possibilities for another two years.
We also have, after the period, defended traffic in west of Sweden, in Vänersborg and Trollhättan. That's traffic that we have been driven before and up to now, and it's worth over the period SEK 1.7 billion. We have also had good development in the Travis platform where we are now focusing on integrating Voi as a player into the app platform. It's going to be totally possible to pay and to see where all the scooters are in the city where Voi is present and where, of course, in the Nordics to start with. We have other development possibilities and plans going forward also with the Travis platform. The proceeds of the green bond have been used all of it, basically for electric buses in Malmö that we just started up or is starting up this weekend.
It also includes BRT solutions in Malmö. We are happy for that. Another electric contract that we are starting up this coming weekend is the Turku electric bus contract. It seems to have gone quite well in both these two cases. The AGM decided on a dividend which corresponds to 75% of net income, which in turn is, if you express it after tax, it is 63% after book tax or after paid tax, I mean 63%. That is SEK 3.77/ share. We have also had a strategic acquisition in the quarter, which is the Skåne-based Telepass, which is an extension of Samtrans business. That business is now being consolidated from the 1st of July, meaning yesterday. All paid for and all set. We've taken a little bit more about the acquisition of Telepass.
It enables especially Samtrans then to establish itself as a national player. We are now present in Stockholm, Gothenburg and the Malmö region. With our own companies. This, of course, gives good coverage for what we are trying to do with Samtrans. It also gives possibilities to increase quality, as we've been talking about that before. We're going to do quite a lot of things going forward. Fossil-free transportation is definitely one of those. We look into the acquisition itself. It's so that Telepass have had a tremendous growth during the last four, five years. The CAGR revenue have been approximately 67%, which is, of course, very good. They now have a sales of SEK 350 million, EBITDA of SEK 60 million, and the normal contract portfolio is around the four years that we operate with Samtrans on those. The purchase price we've been quite precise with this then.
We've bought the company for SEK 150 million. There is a potential for earn-out considerations up to SEK 45 million over three years. That's, of course, also so that we want to keep the people in the company and so on which is also within these earn-out factors. Nobina is now 100% owner. We think it has been a quite attractive price for this company as it's a clear market leader in the region. We see that we can develop the business together with Nobina. We can just also conclude that [Bosfor] have been doing very well. We have been using also [Bosfor] into the test station business. Basically that company is repaid within half a year.
If we go then to the contracts, we have been submitting just above 900 tenders for buses during this quarter or this is actually for, yeah, for this quarter. For the quarter, still have pending a little bit less than 200 buses, and announced have been 719 buses. Out of those 719, we have won 300 buses. As you can see, there is 307 buses that has been announced and we have 163 competing buses. That means that we must have lost something, yes, we did. We did not win the Uppsala contract which contains about 170 buses, but we have more or less covered for that.
If we just take it forward into the quarter where we are now, the pending buses have also been decided and it's concluded with the buses, the 67 that I just said was between Hässleholm and Malmö's buses that we won. Actually, the 127 buses was buses around Växjö in Småland that we didn't win and the difference was quite huge. I'm not too sad about that, I should say. That means that we at the moment are minus seven buses if we would add the 194 buses to the announced buses. It's more or less breakeven and we have won as many as we have lost and that includes then also the Uppsala or Uppsala län traffic which contained 170 buses for us. For the year, it's still remaining more than 1,500 buses.
Out of those, of course, the Stockholm contracts being the most important ones and the turn in of the tender has been postponed until August and then the normal process takes on after that. We will have, I think, a decision on those buses at the end of the year or something like that, and then traffic will start a little bit later. If we look at the changes during the period, it is not much to say about that because it is zero. We haven't started any buses and we haven't ended any buses. Average weighted contract, 8.8 years. Average weighted contract age, 5.4 years. If you divide those two, you get a maturity rate of 61%, which is a little bit overmature, but lots of contracts coming up that we are changing, I think, rapidly on that going forward. The average fleet age is 7.4 years.
If we look into the expiring buses during the year now, during the year 2021, 2022, we will have 412 buses expiring. We should note again that SL Norrtälje has not been decided yet. It's appealed to the Högsta förvaltningsdomstolen not only by us, but by a few others also. We will see where that is landing. That verdict is not given. It's decided that it will be evaluated for a court case in Högsta domstolen. I think that answer will take about two to three months before it's decided if it's going up there. If we look at the traffic starts that we have, they are 321, and out of those 321, 199 buses are new buses, and the absolute majority, 197 out of those 199 new buses are electric buses. Not that much more to say, I think, about this picture.
Okay. We reported a net sales growth of 30.5% for the first quarter. That's corresponding to an organic growth of 29.1%. This was primarily, as Magnus already mentioned, a result of continued strong performance of Samtrans COVID-19 related business, positive contract migration effect from contracts started last year in Sweden. We have retroactive revenue of SEK 35 million. We also had unusually low revenue last year as there were no pandemic-adopted agreements in place in Q1 last year. In addition to this, acquisition added 2.2% to the growth in the quarter. This relates to the companies Göteborgs Buss and KE'S Bussar, both acquired end of last year. Telepass will be consolidated from 1st of July, has not yet been included in the figures.
The EBITDA increased SEK 166 million in comparison to last year, and the drivers for this were, again, the performance of Samtrans pandemic-adopted incentive agreements in place this year, the retroactive negotiated revenue. When we look at the segments, Sweden was the main driver for the increased EBITDA. If we go into the segments, Sweden increased its net sales significantly, and this was primarily as a result of strong growth for Samtrans, driven by the COVID-19 related business, positive contract migration acquisition, and that we had no pandemic-adopted agreements in place last year. Then we have the retroactive revenue. The EBITDA in Sweden was also significantly higher than last year, and this was also driven by the Samtrans COVID-19 related business, pandemic-adopted agreements in place and retroactive revenue.
Looking at Denmark, both net sales and EBITDA were lower than in the same quarter last year, the main driver for this was negative contract migration effect. For net sales, we also had a negative currency effect. Net sales in Finland was lower than last year, when adjusting for currency effect, we saw a small net sales growth in the quarter. Both net sales and EBITDA were negatively impacted by the reduction in traffic due to COVID-19. Norway had higher net sales in comparison with last year, driven by growth in extra traffic, and in addition, we also had a positive currency effect. EBITDA for Norway was lower year-on-year, which was primarily attributable to a negative index trend. If we turn to page 12, we show the explanation regarding the development of the results year to date.
If you start with price and volume, it's the main driver to both the increase in net sales and the EBIT adjusted, and this is primarily driven by the strong performance within Samtrans and the high demand for Samtrans testing stations. In addition to this, we saw positive contribution from having pandemic-adopted contract in place, the retroactive revenue and acquisition. When looking at contract migration in the quarter, we had a positive effect on net sales, but negative on EBIT adjusted, and this was primarily from contracts that started last year in Sweden. If we look at other, these items include a negative effect of SEK 30 million from a revaluation of buses that are available for sale due to reduced commercial traffic related to COVID-19. Cash flow from operations significantly strengthened due to increased earnings.
Total cash flow for the quarter was given Q1 last year, and that was mainly due to that in Q1 last year was boosted because we raised a loan of SEK 200 million connected to the Samtrans acquisition. We also this year have a bit of higher amortization due to the bank loans related to Samtrans. We also have a negative working capital swing compared to last year. If we look at the investment, in February, we conducted a tap issue, as Magnus already mentioned, and during this quarter we have used that for the electrical buses in Malmö. Out of the total bus investment in the quarter, 96% were related to electrical buses. We have a cash position that has increased to SEK 1.2 billion. The equity ratio of about 18%, and net debt to EBITDA at 2.3x. That is below lower end of the range.
Strong equity and a strong balance sheet. Yeah. Hand over to Magnus.
This gives, I think, a very strong start to the year. We have some parts that's performing on high levels. We already now know that Q2 with some plans is going to be pretty good also, as society is keeping a high level on testing. We know that we are running the 200 test stations, as we say now, but that is actually 340 test lines. There is no test station out of these 200-plus test stations that are being closed during the summer. There is a small reduction on the test lines. By test line, we mean that it's how many rows of cars that can come forward doing their testing at the same time, and could be one, two or three lines. A test station of three lines is, of course, bigger than a test station of one line.
The message is that this is continuing on a high level, even though we have some reductions in the biggest test stations. Into the quarterly figures, just as Pernilla said, you need to take into account also that we had a revaluation of the commercial buses in the group. That's partly because they have become a little bit older, and there has been very little commercial traffic during the year and during the pandemic, which is actually one and a half year now. We partly see a possibility to renew these buses a little bit, and that's the reason also why we have written down the value of the buses that we have used. I think that's a forward-leaning measure in what we are doing. We are also continuing our growth during the quarter at 29% organic.
It's, as I said before, basically a little bit due to the weak comparables that we had before also. The ridership in the original traffic is actually coming back. We faced numbers during the winter and partly into the first quarter also that was down to like 50%. We can already now see that the figure is starting to get close to 70%, and we ended last summer with actually, and part of the autumn also, with 85% of normal passenger figures before it went down again in the second wave of COVID that actually came in mid-October, I would say, last year. Then ended up in basically the 50% beginning of the year, just as it was in March, April 2020 or at least in April, May 2020. We see a clearly positive trend in the ridership. That's of course good.
I've said before that I believe that when the pandemic is in a stable situation, I don't think you could really say that yet with the Delta versions and so on in the pandemic. When it is a little bit more stable, then we will have about six to maximum 12 months before we are up to full speed again with passengers and everything. We have had several significant contract wins in the quarter, and we're happy for that. They are, as I can see it, on good earning levels. We have missed out on the one that I've told you about, Uppsala, and that gives more or less an even score so far for the quarter if you also count a little bit into this year. There are things, of course, that are moving and so on the whole time.
I feel quite confident with our base business and our public transport sector. We also have a reinstated dividend that the AGM took a decision on, and that is SEK 3.77/ share, and that has, of course, already been paid, corresponding to 75% of net income. Now, operator, I think we are ready for questions, if there are any. We certainly hope there is.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you will need to press star and one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. Should you wish to cancel it, you may press the pound or hash key. Once again, to ask a question, please press star and one. Your first question comes from the line of Erik Paulsson from Nordea. Please go on, Erik. The line is now open.
Hi there. I have three questions. I start with the 1st one. You write about in your report and also state here that Q2 will also be strong in your view, but it's hard to predict what it will look like as for now, but can you give some more guidance regarding Q2 now, as we have seen now that you have had quite good quarters in terms of testing, et cetera? What should we expect now for Q2?
I think we won't go with the exact numbers. Q2 will be on the strong side definitely. What we refer to when it's a little bit more difficult to say for the future, that's the full year and so on. We are quite sure that Q2 will be a strong quarter. How strong, it takes too far to say. If we say it, we're pretty certain of that. As we basically know, that's what I've said, that the testing is continuing on a high level. As we have now reported in the report, we have corrected a little bit, which is also on our side actually, and it has been changed now that we are getting paid for the test stations. We are not getting paid for each test that we are doing.
There has maybe been a little bit of a misunderstanding on that. It makes the case even more firm that we are getting paid for the test stations. To be even more correct, we're getting paid for the test lines, I should say. We know that there is a small reduction, or there is a reduction in the test lines, but all the test stations are still there as society wants to keep a high level of testing.
That's actually my second question then. If we could get a number of the test lines as it is now and the reductions here during summer.
Test lines, plus, then it's a few plus/minus, but 340 approximately. The test stations, meaning the physical places where we are testing, it could be one line, two lines, or three lines. Those are plus 200 places around in Sweden.
The reduction now during summer here, what do you expect in terms of test lines?
The reduction is on no physical test lines, or I mean, on no test place. We remain in every corner of the country, if I say so, in every city and in every village where we have been. There is a little reduction between 10% and 20%, I could say.
Okay.
Of the test lines.
Yeah. My final question is regarding, you talked about the SL Norrtälje contract, I was wondering if that includes the double-decker buses that you have been running for quite a while regarding the incentive contracts there. I think it's like 676 line or something. Does that include that?
You're quite on the spot there. Yeah, it includes the double-decker from Norrtälje to Stockholm. The 67, I think it is, just as you said. It's included in this contract, definitely. Also the city traffic, if we could call it that, in Norrtälje and the lines around Norrtälje.
I get the impression that that double-decker line that has moved from Stockholm to Norrtälje with quite good capacity, hasn't that been quite a good profitability for you? If you lose that out, then it could be a stark loss in profitability for you.
We have other contracts that are also good, and you couldn't say that this is exceptionally good. Of course, it has not been a loss-making contract, and we don't have any loss-making contracts, by the way. We don't really state every single contract and what their earnings are and so on. It's a good contract, but there are also other good contracts. This is getting to the hooks of about in Solna, our argumentation here is that we need to find out how much a PTA can steer who they want to win the contract, meaning that in this case, it was very randomly selected who got into the second and third round in negotiations of this contract. It's quite common that we have negotiations when we have a tender process with PTAs.
That needs to be defined how that is going to be done in the future. To be a little bit more specific about this contract.
Okay. Thank you very much. I get back into line.
Sure.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Johan Dahl from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. The line is now open.
Yeah, thank you. Good morning, everyone. Just a question on the requests for quotes that you get currently from the PTAs. Does that reflect in any way changed expectations on travel habits, et cetera? I'm just wondering how much wiser you guys have become regarding long-term effects of this, potentially changed traveling habits.
The tendency is that we get a little bit less of incentives into the contract compared where it used to be five, six, seven years when we won, for example, Södertälje and some other contracts in Stockholm, which are 100% incentivized. Because there is more uncertainty at the moment of what is the normal ridership. An incentive contract works usually so that we have a base year where the level of measurement is established. Of course, the PTAs are a bit scared for having the level measured at the moment because there is low ridership, and then it would be easy to increase the level of ridership. That's definitely one tendency. There are maybe some other things also. We are, of course, corresponding to this, but I think in general it's quite normal except for this.
PTA sort of request from you guys to submit tenders for pretty much similar volumes looking forward?
I would say that there are also contracts that have been postponed because of the uncertainty of the pandemic. You could say the two SL contracts in South Stockholm, Huddinge, Botkyrka, Nacka, Värmdö which are two of the major or biggest contracts in Sweden, actually. They have been postponed more than for a year. That's one issue also, but it is about how the uncertainty leads with the ridership at the moment. Now I think that this is going to proceed. We're going to turn in, everyone is going to turn in their tenders in August. There are some specialties. It takes too far to go into the details of the contract or the tender formulation, but there are some changes in how, in this case, SL wants to run their incentive contracts, but there are still incentives in the contracts.
Okay, I get it. Also on this testing business, and I'm sorry to dwell on this, but it seems to be the biggest Delta in the report versus last year. Just to be perfectly clear, is it that you've got a fixed remuneration per testing line, i.e., you would be actually gaining from having as little practical testing as possible due to low variable cost? Is that the pricing model that you apply? Secondly, beyond Q2, what's your visibility here in terms of readiness and availability of testing lines and hence your income from this area?
If we start with the first question, it's what I stated. We get paid for each test line that we have open, meaning test station. We don't get paid for each test that we do, meaning that we have a better coverage of fixed costs than maybe we have partly explained before and what you have interrupted us to say. I just want to make that clear that we are getting paid for each station and each test line. I won't go into details of how exactly we're getting paid and so on. It's more covering fixed costs, as you're saying. Obviously, it doesn't take too much to say that the testing have gone down a little bit more than I expressed that the test reduction or the test station reduction will be for the summer. I just said 10%-20%.
The actual testing for the last, maybe starting May or something like that. I think in March, April, it was quite a lot of testing still, and we had a lot of contamination and so on. Obviously, when people get vaccine and so on, the testing will go down a little bit. For the next quarter, we can probably say that we are staying with the number of physical test stations. We're taking down the test lines a little bit which is a little bit less than the testing is going down. I hope that's clear.
Just so I get it right. Maintaining readiness is one thing, but as actual testing goes down, is that positive for your profitability then? Is that correct understood there?
No, I wouldn't say that. It doesn't really matter, I would say, because we are getting paid per test line and test station. We don't have variable cost into this in the same amount as if we would have been paid for each test. We keep up the readiness for the society for more testing. Of course, there is a little bit less administration if we have a lot of tests instead of just a few tests. These test kits they don't weigh too much, and then they don't take too much space. The transportation and the logistics that we do with these tests doesn't really matter if it's one test or 1,000 tests. If you get what I mean.
I get it very clear. Thank you so much. I'll get back in line.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Johan Sundén from Carnegie. Please go ahead. The line is now open.
Thank you. A few questions from my side as well. The first one is on the retroactive revenue. Now we've been into this pandemic situation for over a year. You have been reporting retroactive revenue for, I think, three or four quarters in a row now. How much lower are, so to say, the run rate contract pricing in your pandemic adapted contract? Should one look at the retroactive revenue as an extraordinary thing now, or is it just one thing that compensates for the lost revenue in this quarter or so? What's the lag? When you started to renegotiate contract, you said that you renegotiate for six or nine months.
Yeah.
Now you should start to renegotiate the second time and so on.
There's been various times on this, three months up to 12 months, I would say. We have some, I think would be even longer, at most around six months. That's why we've had to come back to the negotiation and to the retroactive income sometimes because we might have had one contract that have ended, and when a contract have ended and we don't have any firm agreement with the PTA, then we book the actual amount of passengers boarding the bus, if that's the incentive, which is the incentive, which is, of course, the most important one that differs most. This retroactive income could never be a one-off.
That I must clearly say because we are already, and we haven't stated how much, and I won't say how much either at this point, how much we are losing because we are losing, and we have said that a bit before, or I don't know if you could say lose, but we are taking some of the hit in the incentive contract as we have a ridership which is much lower than what was intended from the beginning. We make these contracts, the COVID contracts, as we say, and then it's stated in a percentage, and I won't say the percentage either, on how much we get paid for. That incentive contracts turns in more or less into the production contract, but obviously with less than 100% of the incentive that we thought or was intended to have.
You're right in the sense that the core business, when it comes to PTA business and public transport with a ridership of well within under 50, I explained now that we are costing 65% or something. We're getting up to 70%. Last summer, we were up to 85%, and I think that in a six months to a year, we will be back to this 100%, is taking a hit. That's why, of course, the Samtrans business, which is completely different business from what we have been doing before, have been a hedge to what we are missing out on the incentive business. There is a lower result in the normal contractual business that we have run. Your description and your question, how we should phrase it, is in the right direction, but it takes too far for me to reveal the figures in this.
Yeah. If we phrase it like this, are you overcompensated in this quarter by the retroactive revenue, or if we had the normal steady state, should the revenue.
No, I think we are not overcompensated. We did say the number, didn't we?
We did. SEK 35 million.
SEK 35 million. That was basically one, or maybe it was two contracts that we have been dealing with for a pretty long time. I think I'd say also that for next quarter, there will be most probably, it's not signed yet, but most probably it will be signed another contract that expired two, three months ago, and we have had the negotiation now and so on. There will be also that I can think of one contract at least, if not more than two, I think for the next quarter also.
Something around some SEK 20 million-SEK 35 million should be expected in retroactive revenue for the next quarter as well, at least.
It could be in that level. Yeah.
Yeah. Great. That was very clear. Also Norway, I noted that you wrote that you have a lower index effect due to your cost in Norway from last year was lower due to COVID. How long will this persist? Will we have now during this fiscal year, a lower kind of revenue base in Norway? Say if passenger volumes increase, there should there be a time lag and pressure module factor?
In Norway, it's not actually incentive contracts because they only have a production contract. It's the interpretation of the interest rate index, which is a little bit unfortunate, I would say. Ruter, who is the main PTA for us in Oslo, have made this interpretation, and we are accepting that. It's about, in Norway, an interest rate increase before we get compensation on that. The interest rates have been quite low, and we're taking a small hit on that. You could say that, I'm not taking this too far now, but we would be compensated going forward when the interest rates are increased.
Okay. That's clear. Let's see. I have another question that's regarding your tax rate, paid tax rate. It was some time since you commented regarding how much tax you will be able to pay. I know that you rearranged your financing structure so you had a favorable situation for another few years. When should we expect that you should be forced to start paying tax in Sweden?
In Sweden, if you look at the tax laws carry forward, we have almost used up them. As you mentioned, we have this "new" EU tax regulation from 2019 that we're able to use tax depreciation times over only five years, and that enable us to further then delay this entering into a tax-paying position. The effect from this depends on the level of investment going forward. We have not made that forecast yet, so to say, because it can vary between the years going forward and depending on how much investment that we have.
Sorry, Pernilla. My headphones, the battery died. The last 10 seconds there, can you please repeat that?
I don't know where I missed you. This new EU tax regulation from 2019, we have the possibility there to make the tax depreciation times over only five years, and that enable us then to further delay when we enter into a tax-paying position. The effect from this depends on the level of investment going forward. This will vary between the years, depending on the level of investment. Next year we will probably have a lot of investment and then that affects the situation. We have not made a forecast that we have published regarding this.
Okay. That's also very helpful to know how it works and what one should take into consideration. I think that was my questions. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Any follow-up question for Mr. Paulsson?
Yes. Thank you. I was just thinking about here Q2 again, and you're talking about a good development, et cetera. If we look historically back in time, now it's a special situation with the testing, et cetera, but if we look back in history, it seems like Q2 has always been slightly better than Q1. How should we think about the sequential improvement in earnings before tax comparing Q2 with Q1 here?
I think the seasons are, as you say, a little bit offset. Normally Q1 is probably the weakest quarter that we have. No, Q4 might be, and Q1 is the second weakest, and then Q2 would be the strongest.
Q3.
Q3 would be the strongest, of course. Yes. Q2, the second strongest. That's the way it normally is. I think that's offset a little bit at the moment as we have other parameters into this. Q1, Q2, I think we stay with what we have said, and that is that we believe it's going to be a strong quarter. The comparables for Q2 are maybe a little bit better than Q1, at least, because they were very low. Maybe you have to look into that a little bit. Still it seems to be a good quarter.
This year we will have the strong first half year, and the second half year you will probably see a bit of more normal.
We have told you also before, I think, that you maybe have been, all of you, a little bit missing on that this year, the first half-year is the stronger part and the second half-year gets a little bit more comparable against the figures also that we had last year. Of course, depending on what's happening in society and what's happening with ridership and all these things. Everything is a bit more uncertain at the moment, we have confidence in what we are doing, we think we have a good business and everything. Don't misunderstand that.
All right. Thank you very much.
Sure.
A follow-up question for Mr. Sundén from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Sorry, I came up with another question, and this is regarding your M&A strategy going forward. I know you're widening your target range a bit and start looking at these special transport companies, but what kind of company should we expect that you look into? How big of a shift of business model would this make? Would you, for example, look into emergency traffics, for example, ambulances or fire safety and so on, or will you stick to this kind of hourly transport and so on?
It takes a little bit too much to say the strategy going forward, I guess. I think we are looking broadly. Don't forget that the contractual traffic is also a place where we are looking for decent businesses and so on. Of course, a lot of companies have had problems now as the commercial traffic has been very weak and maybe also for other reasons. I think that there are quite a lot in there, and we'll see where it lands. Of course, the special traffic or the Samtrans kind of business is something where we are looking at and maybe expanding in some direction. It might be the direction that you're imposing here or talking about, but it takes a little bit too much to say exactly where we're going.
One should expect you stay focused on wheel-based transport, not going to rail or boats or so on.
No, primarily wheel-based and primarily in the North. That's what I've said for four years now. At some point, that might change, but I don't think it's time to change it yet. That's as precise as I know.
Good. Thank you. I can come back with this discussion another time.
Sure.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. No further question at this time. Please continue.
Okay, very good. We thank you all for participating, and have a very nice summer. See you next time.