Earnings Call: Q4 2020

Feb 4, 2021

So hello people. It's 10 o'clock and time to get started. Welcome to Nougneet all of you and our presentation of the Q4 report. This is the first report we published after being once again the list of company at the end of November. So we are naturally very excited about this. My name is Johan Tidestad and I'm the Chief Communications Officer at Nordnet and I will be hosting this session today and this is what will happen. Lars Hogke Noling, our CEO and Lennart Kjellen, our CFO will make a presentation of our business and our financial numbers for Q4 and that will take something around 20 to maximum 30 minutes. And after that, we'll have a Q and A session. And during the presentation itself, all participants are muted. So we let Lars Rokel and Nat go through the slides first. Then when we come to the Q and A session, you just click on the button at the bottom of the screen that says raise hand, then we will enable you to talk. So you ask your questions verbally. We'll come back to that later. I can explain that again when we come to that part of the agenda. And of course, the presentation itself will be available on our corporate website after we have finished this event. So I'll have to check with the boys if they are ready. Lars Oke, how are you today? I'm great. Great. Lennart, I think so too. Tremendous nice winter day here in Stockholm for you who are not here. Great. So, Lars Rok here, before we come into the details, what can we say in general about the report? I mean, in general, it's a record quarter in all aspects. We're going to talk about that, of course, during the presentation, but yes, it's It's good quarter 4. Great. Okay, then let's do this. Lars Rokke, please go ahead. Yes. So we can go to next page, Janik. So starting with some key highlights for the Q4. And we see continued very high interest of the And share some funds. And we see record inflow of savings capital and new customers onto our platform. And only in quarter 4, we took in 100,000 close to 100,000 new customers, which is a new record. And we grow the customer base with 34% in 1 year. We also have a trading record in December around the American election. We also see that the largest broker in the Nordics during 2020. We also see 2 new trading requests also in January. We're going to talk more about that later. We also see new all time high, both on savings, capital and lending and continued development of interfaces and launch new products. I'm going to cover in more detail. So high net income, coupled with the cost control, leads to the best financial results in our history and with an adjusted profit before tax of SEK473 1,000,000 and that's up 300% versus last year. And of course, a big event for us that we were listed on the Stockholm main exchange on the take a save on the 25th November. We also proposed a dividend now SEK0.0151 per share and that's in line with the recommendation from the SFSA, Fjanssenspikonen. And we continue to see a strong development also in January, both when it comes to new customers, net savings, trading and also lending, but More on that later. We can go to next page, Sunny. So again, a record quarter then in basically all aspects, touch on the new customers, almost 100,000 in 1 quarter is the highest ever. Also the highest ever is savings capital of 35,000,000,000 in 1 Quarter and new customers and net savings coupled with high customer activities led them to the best Revenue for Porker ever as well, we've SEK 167,000,000. And that coupled then with good cost control gives us the best The financial result, the profit before tax, also of SEK 4.73 €1,000,000 and up 300% or close to 300% versus last year. We go to next. And we have had a strong momentum in all of 2020 and We see a very strong interest in savings and investments overall in the Nordic markets and we see that also continue. You also see a very strong digitization trend where customers leave the big banks and go to digital platforms, especially for savings and investments. We want to have a one stop shop and a better customer experience. On top of that, we work very hard on our platform and we continue to work very hard On our platform every day to improve to give a really good customer experience as well. And we grow on the customer base and like I said, with 30 4% in 1 year. Savings capital is up almost SEK160 1,000,000,000 in 1 year. Half of that, I'm happy to see coming from net savings, the money that customers bring in from other banks to our platform. So around SEK 80,000,000,000 net savings. Also high activity level, giving a large number of trades and all of that, of course, giving a great development in revenues. And then coupled them with good cost control, we see a slight decrease of the overall cost in 'twenty versus 'nineteen, gives this fantastic development in profit before tax of around 300%. We can go to next. And we see that the acceleration of our growth that our growth is really accelerating. Here you see the growth in customer savings capital since 2004. And since 2019, we see a clear pickup of the growth. And that's also a result from all the work we've done with our platform to really improve the customer experience, both in our app, our web, new products and also the back end systems. Go to next. When we look at the customer growth and the net savings growth over the year, it's not just been any one time effects. Of course, we saw a spike in March when COVID hit. But you see that we have a really strong growth in customers' net savings versus last year for every month during the year. And we see also that, that growth is accelerating in quarter 4. So in total, then 300,000 new customers and around SEK 80,000,000,000 in net savings in 2020. Go to next. We have had a good development in all the countries. And I would say outside of Sweden now, we've seen just an exploding customer growth. Norway Increasing customer base with 56% in 1 year, Denmark 76% and Finland 35%. So it's tremendous growth momentum in those countries. In Sweden, which is the largest country, we have a good growth of 9% in customers. But What's worth to mention here, we really bring in good customers. So the income per customer is good and we also have a very good revenue development of 40% increased over the year and also very strong net savings in Sweden of SEK 26,000,000,000. We'll go to next. This is a breakdown of our revenue in different revenue streams, where the light red is Net interest income, the dark blue is non transaction related income, mainly funds And the light blue is transaction related income and mainly brokerage. And we see over the years, if you look at the full year period, We have had a very strong growth in all the revenue streams with around 20% year growth in net interest income and on transactional income and around 40% in transaction related income. And if you look at the margins down to the right, net interest income margins is fairly stable, a little bit down this year due to Higher growth in deposits versus lending and also that the personal loans business is slightly less It's part of the lending portfolio, but overall stable. And the non transaction related income, mainly the funds then are also Stable around 35, 36 bps. And then we have a big pickup in the brokerage income, the light through there from 30 bps To 55 bps. And this is from a few factors. 1 is, of course, higher trading activity per customer, but also that we see Higher growth now in countries with higher margins. We have higher margins overall in Finland, Denmark and Norway compared to Sweden. And the main reason for this is that it's more cross border trading in those countries. So they trade shares on the local exchange, but then they trade the large shares in Stockholm and the U. S. As well. We continue to have very strong position on customer experience. We measure that through NPS in all countries where we have number 1 position In quarter 4 in Norway, Denmark and Finland and a strong number 2 position in Sweden. And of course, here we work hard to close the gap to the main competitor Avanza. And at the bottom there, you see the market share there's a market share of trades on the local exchanges We have increased the market shares in all markets, especially then outside of Sweden. Okay. What's the next? And we continue to see very profitable customer growth. As you know, we mainly get customers from recommendation and also all the PR initiatives we do and all the savings economists giving our message as well, driving in customers. So the customer acquisition cost is even lower now in quarter 4 looking at the full year compared to the 1st 9 months It's around SEK300 per customer. That coupled with a very low churn is a high stickiness. We have around 2% churn per year, It's a very than high lifetime value for the customers. So lifetime value versus acquisition costs is discount is almost 60 turns right now. We will probably invest a little bit more in digital marketing in some of our markets in 2021. The graph to the right, you see our customer base versus age. And the main the peak is around 35 to 40. You see the new customers coming in, the SKU is a little bit younger, that's always been the case. But what's important to note here, I mean, since we have a high stickiness, the customers stay with us on the platform. And as you see on the blue Bar here that the customer aggregates a lot of wealth during when they age on our platform. We can go to next. So just the select product releases that we've done. So far, this in 2020, we're down 782 releases on our web platform next And 33 new versions of our app, which is a very fast Launch time for both of those services. And we've launched a number of exciting features for our customers during the year. We also now have a fully digitized process and a customer journey for mortgage, probably the most digitalized mortgage journey in Sweden. And it's really been appreciated by our customers as well. And we see a very strong growth in mortgage in Sweden with 44% year on year growth. And we've also digitized the pension part, both it is to move your pension funds, but also if you're an entrepreneurial company, you can basically manage your pension We are pleased for yourself in a fully digitized way. We also launched a fund guidance flow It's mainly for the saver segment and our broader segment. And there's a Help Me Do It segment that needs help basically. What fund should I choose? And here we have now launched a very simple tool that the customer answers a few questions and we suggest the portfolio and then it's very easy to set up also monthly saving on top of that. We go to next. Also 1st February, we launched Eget Pakon's Kontu in Norway, its own pension account in Norway, which is a very exciting product. It's a new regulation in Norway with an external transfer hub. So if you have an occupational pension, You can with one click basically decide the provider of your pension service. And we see from the launch on February 1, only in the 1st 2 days, we got 3,000 Transfer request to Nordnet, which is a very good start. And it was exciting. 41% of those transfer requests came via the app. So it's a very simple customer journey to sign up and become then a pension customer with Nordnet and transfer all of the pension money to Nordnet. So huge potential for us going forward. So that was a little bit introduction. And with that, I hand over to you, Lena, to talk more about the financial performance in the quarter. Thank you very much, Lars Horken. A great pleasure for me to presenting the 1st quarterly report regarding the financial performance of Novnet since we've been relisting. Again, as Lars Hogge said, It's in many aspects record figures that we have here. And we can go to the first slide, Sunny? And as you see here, we have a continuous growth of customers quarter by quarter and at an Accelerating pace, starting out in Q1 'nineteen with 40% and now up to Q4 with 34%. Actually, I think you said already seen already that we have published the January statistics regarding customer growth as well, ending us up in a 38% growth year on year. So it's actually continuing this growth rate. Regarding savings capital, that has, of course, increased quite a lot during 2020, about SEK 170,000,000,000. And I think the main thing here, the most the thing I'm most impressed by is that the savings capital Or the net savings part of that is almost 50%, dollars 82,000,000,000 of that, which is a great number. We can take the next one. Thank you. We also see step change In all major income streams in 2020, as you can see here, quarter by quarter, we have increased it And also in all those revenue streams. The only thing that sticks out here on the negative side would be the net interest income In Q4, but that is an effect of the deposit guarantee scheme that actually doubled the cost for us and that was not At our awareness until Q4, at this, we don't get invoiced until then. So it was a hit of about DKK10 1,000,000 to DKK12 1,000,000 in Q4 for that. So adjusted to that, yes, even though even that net interest income has a step up in quarter 4. We can go to the next slide. With this great growth both in transaction, both in savings capital And in customer as well, we still have been able to hold the system, the platform, the Jupyter platform, The customer growth without any interruptions and that is very good and that we have done with a stable cost, which we have indicated that we should do. So it is really scalable structure infrastructure that we have here. We can take the next one. With this growth, revenue wise, with those stable costs, As you say, we had a growth in PBT, very high growth. I would say we are 4 times The PBT as we had in 2019, so it's a really positive effect of all that we have done throughout the years And keeping the stable cost. So it's great numbers to 2%. We can go to the next one. Regarding the balance sheet, as we said, we have increased the savings capital to SEK565 1,000,000,000, About 11% of those are within deposits, and that is what is in our balance sheet as well. About SEK 20,000,000,000 of those SEK 60,000,000,000 that we have in deposits are lended out. And the lending has also developed in a very good way and in the way we have aimed to do so. We have an increase in margin lending by about SEK 2,000,000,000 and the mortgage is also an increase by about SEK 2,000,000,000 And the personal loan, the unsecured ones are at the stable level of about SEK 4,000,000,000 both in going and closing balance. So we really have a new diversification, which says more to the margin lending, more to the mortgage, less proportion to the personal loans. This is of course also reflected in the credit losses. We don't have any new credit losses. Those this change between 2019 2020 are strengthening of the reserves rather. And we have seen no losses during 2020 in margin lending except for strengthening reserves And no losses whatsoever in mortgages. There only is in this personal loan and that is all in the calculation and as expected. We can take the next one. This leads us all to a robust capital position where we have a capital ratio of almost 22%. And we have a leverage ratio of about 4%. So we feel very strong about this capital position. The requirements Compared to the ratio, 22% is 17.6% and leverage ratio is still not in effect, That will be on as of 28th June this year. But we expected it to be 3% as the hard core. And then the SFSA are implementing a buffer between 0.2% and 0.5%, which is not yet published, so still to be seen. And we can go to the next slide. And this is what I indicated regarding the January statistics that we Also published this morning, customer growth, 65,000 new customer. That is more than double the average monthly growth in 2020, which was a good year. So it is really a good start of this 2021. Net saving is SEK10.9 billion in January. I mean, we can compare it to what we had in 2019. That was a total SEK 22,000,000,000 for the full year. So it's really a kickoff. We have a savings capital almost at SEK 600,000,000,000. We have continued to grow the lending portfolio, especially the margin lending by SEK 600,000,000 in January itself and SEK 0.1 billion on the mortgage side. But still, as we said, Personal loan on a stable level is SEK4,000,000,000. Regarding transactions, the number of transactions on an average per day is almost 40% higher in January than they were in December. And December was a good month as well. And if you compare the numbers to January 2020, it's 150% growth. So it's really a good start of 2021. We can take the next one. Lars Hogo also already mentioned the market position has grown in all countries. But yes, the targets are to be number 1 and we're still number 1 in Norway, Finland and Denmark, but number 2 in Sweden. Customer growth, as I said, we're up to 34% 2020. We have a target of 10% to 15%. Yes, it is exceeding that target and as I said in January even so. Average savings capital per customer, with this growth of customer, one would expect that the average capital per customer would decrease, but actually it has increased and is above our target of 409 1,000 per customer and is now 4.60. Income in relation to savings capital, we have guided and have the target of Plus 40 bps, but we are on the level 60 bps as Lorcan was telling you about. And as I said, Shifting to other countries, high activity and the cross border, all those things matters to that. We will we're not seeing we can't tell when this will go down to targets, But we're still sticking to the target that we have had and that we have. And as I said, regarding costs, stable level, SEK10 1,000,000,000, which is below the target and we aim to stick to that stable cost target. Regarding dividend, I think you can go to the next slide, Sunny, because we're still having the target and we have not Change the policy to have a dividend of 70% of the net result for each year. However, as you I think you're all aware of, there is a recommendation for banks by the SFSA to be a little bit restricted and cautious about they do the dividend and has recommended the banks to take 25% of 2019 2020 years result and maximize maximum debit of that. And that is how we have done it and thereby it's €1.51 per share that we have. When or if the SFSA comes back to revise the recommendation, We will look at the situation and come back. And if it's possible, yes, we have no reason not to add any dividend at that time. But that will be an evaluation when it comes to that. By that, I think I hand Back to you again, Lars Holcken. Thank you, Lennart. So I'm just going to Clutch talking on our key focus areas before we open up for questions. So starting on the top with engaged customers, for us, it's key to have the best customer Savings and Investments, something we work hard with every day. And a large part of our cost base is also going into building the platform every day. And that's everything from scalability in the back end. And of course, we have put a lot of focus on scalability with all the trading records we have seen. We've been up and running all those all the year and also January. Automated customer journeys, digitize everything we can, Also launching new exciting digital products and then of course continue to work with our front end channels, the app, the web and shareable. Then it's Engaged Employees. We know we will never have happy customers unless we have happy employees. And here it's very important to have a very clear for our company. But also, Securad, we do what we say, that we deliver together and deliver and win together. And of course, the leadership part here is very important. And it's a strong governance. We are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day. And of course, we have especially large focus on our compliance risks, especially AML and GDPR and cybersecurity. That is profitable growth to show that really can scale as a digital platform with good operating leverage. And we've seen that in 'nineteen 'twenty and that's, of course, the focus also going forward. And what's key here is automation and digitization to automate and digitize Absolutely everything we can and we have a number of customer journeys that are still too manual that we will work hard with to digitize now going forward. So with that, Johan, I think I hand over to you for Q and A. All right, great. So we can take the next slide. Thanks a lot guys. With that, it's time to open up for questions. And like I said before, you just raise your hand in a digital way and I will enable you to speak and you do that by push the the button at the bottom of the screen that says raise hand. And I will go through all the people 1 by 1 that have raised their hands and then I will announce you by name when it's your turn to ask a question and then you also need to accept to be unmuted, So it will show up a request on your screen that says that you accept to be unmuted. And of course, it's nice if you just Briefly introduce yourself before you ask your question, so you know who's speaking. So I will start with I think I will start with Ermin Kerik, who is I think with Can you hear me? Yes, we do. Please go ahead, Will Kristin. Wonderful. Thank you very much and congratulations on a strong report. I thought I would maybe just start on The high activity we see now during January. In connection with the IPO, you talked about your capacity on the website being about 10 times Which you saw during March. Could you give any color on how that stands now versus the activity you saw during January? And Did you have any downtime or anything like that? Yes, yes, I can comment on that. Now, the main focus area for us is continue to improve capacity on the platform with new hardware, but also Optimize all the processes that we have. We have increased capacity tremendously in 'nineteen, but we see again, then we thought the trading record we saw in March that will stand for a long time, but then we saw that in December on the election and the information of the vaccine. We had a new trading record and then we had additional 2 new trading records in January. But our platform has been up and running in a good way. So we have a lot of I mean, additional capacity on the platform, but it's something we really focus on and continue to focus on going forward as well. That's one of our key areas. Okay. Thank you. And I think also on your January statistics here, you mentioned you've added about 65,000 new clients, which is more than double the average during 2019. Do you see any difference in the characteristics of the Clients you've added during January. I mean given the whole Reddit and GameStop Yes, Thierry, it's been do you see any risk that those are, call it, lower quality and less sustainable? It's a little bit Too early to tell, but we saw the customers that we got in 2020, which was also a very high number, 300,000 in 1 year. And That cohort has been very good, both when it comes to net savings and activity level. But let's see when we follow the January cohort as well. But I think Underlying is a very good base and then you might have had some extra spikes with the customer We're just coming in to buy certain shares, but my belief that this is also going to be overall a good cohort. Great. Then just could you give us any more flavor on the EPK account you saw in Norway? That sounds very exciting. Could we have any numbers on the potential you see there? Yes. I think like I said, Nuno was very successful. 3,000 transfer requests already the 1st 2 days. And it's basically We are the main challenger versus the big pension companies. And we have a good platform. So we do see a potential there. Then we know also that Pension normally is a little bit hard moving. So that was very exciting to see good numbers in the beginning and especially also that the more customers came in via the app. That's a good proof that the customer journey to sign up for is easy. But exciting start and that's followed this now going forward. Got you. Then just one last detailed question perhaps from my side. On the NII, should we just adjust for the deposit guarantee in Q4 and use that as a base for Q1? Or will the deposit guarantee have any Run rate impact going forward? It wasn't a one off effect in Q4 of about SEK 10,000,000 to SEK 12,000,000. But I would say You can add to the other quarters. I mean, if you deduct that part, you divide it into the other quarters and then you can have the same as for 2021 as you had in the total for 2020. Very clear. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Thank you. Thank you, Erwin. Thanks a lot. And then we have next up is Patrick Bratiles, I think with ABG. Hello, Patrick. Hello, hello. Good morning. Yes, if I start off, you have a cost guidance until 2023, but Looking more short term, what can you say about the cost in 2021? Can we expect to see reduced costs Compared to your target level on the back of less dependency of consultants and old IT system being run off or should we expect Flat cost or increasing cost due to the high inflow of customers that we have seen in the last few months. I think that the guidance is still flat on cost versus 2019 on the 10.97 level. Of course, I mean, we I mean, there's a tremendous inflow of new customers that makes And by that, we have to run really fast also on the automation part. We need to automate everything we can. Of course, that takes some time. But So far, we maintain the guidance. If this customer inflow would continue through the entire year, That we'll see, but so far we've maintained the cost guidance. Yes, yes. But I was more talking short term like in 2021, the first few quarters here. Yes. We maintain the cost guidance where we are now. Yes. Thank you. And then I saw you announce some costs related to the IPO taken this quarter. Can we expect any additional one off cost in Q1 or was all taken here in Q4? All was taken in Q4 for the IPO, yes. Great. And Q3 as well. And in a total, 110 10 in Q3, 99 in Q4. Yes. Thank you. And If we look at the customer growth rate in Norway and Denmark, especially Denmark, it seems to be Standing. Can you talk a little bit and elaborate what is happening there right now and why you're growing so fast Compared to the Swedish market, does everything boils down to the competitive landscape or are you doing something differently there? I think it also has to do with critical mass that we both in Norway and Denmark, we reached a tipping point Being large enough, really having a good word-of-mouth. And that's and in all ways, we also acquired Net 1 of the main competitors in 2019. So we have a critical mass and a fantastic base now to grow And on top of that, of course, it's a very high interest also in those markets for savings investments and also very strong digitization trends. So I think it's just that the maturity that we reach now, the really take off point in those countries. Okay. And but if you compare that to, for example, Sweden then, where you grow by less than 10% here in Q4. Do you have any action plans for the Swedish market in order to boost this customer growth rate In this 2021 or are you focusing more on the other geographies given that you have such strong momentum there? Yes. Overall, we have a Nordic focus and we want to be the leading platform sales investments in the Nordics. And we have only 5% market share with the Market Nordic, which makes, of course, fantastic growth potential. But that said, we also do focus quite a bit on Sweden, and we want Over time, we see higher growth rate as well. And one area there might be that we boost a little bit digital marketing as well in Sweden. But I would say, also in Sweden, even though the growth rate is lower, the customers we get in are very good. It's high income Customer and as you saw, we have great savings in Sweden, EUR 26,000,000,000 and also very good revenue growth 40% year on year. So it's a very good customer base. Just see if you can get, especially in the saver segment, in the broader segment, some more customers in there. Yes. Thank you. But this digital marketing that you talked about, that will still be within the cost guide and Okay. Thank you. That was all for me then. Thank you. Thanks a lot, Patrik. So we'll go to the next person that is Gurjit Kambu from JP Morgan, good morning, Gujit. Hi, good morning, everybody and yes, congratulations on a fantastic set of results. So I've got a few questions. If I just maybe just go through them and then you can take them 1 by 1. So firstly, in terms of the kind of private banking channel, What sort of growth are you seeing there? And are you targeting growth perhaps in markets outside of Sweden as well? So that's the first one, just a little bit on the private banking side. And I think I read somewhere that some of the Nordic banks were actually increasing Their cost for trading, which I guess is contrary to what many people are thinking, is that something you're seeing More broadly in the market, there's not that much pricing pressure for trading. And then maybe just if you can Comment a little bit more on the digital remote advice offering and what you're doing there and what the opportunities could be for that type of offering from Nornet. Thank you. Yes. I'll just start with Private I mean, especially in Sweden, we have a fantastic momentum in private banking in all scale. Of course, digital savvy private banking, but both From the smaller, euros 2,500,000 up to customers with a lot of money. But overall, fantastic momentum. Why I said also in Sweden even if the growth rate is smaller, it's very good customers we get and not least in the Private Banking segment. And one really good attractor here is our mortgage also with the best interest rate in the market. We do see potential in other countries as well. We see growth in Norway. We See potential for pickup also in Denmark and Finland, but Sweden is the most matured. And one tool, of course, in Norway and Finland is If we launch a mortgage product there as well and we aim that mainly then in that case to the private banking market. And so that was first. The second question was the increased cost for trading. I would say, I mean, as you know, we've been pushing the The trading cost down for many years. So overall, we have a very good cost level both for local and international trades in the Nordics. And it's been fairly stable now for the last years and we don't see any big movements Up or down. There were some of the big banks that tried to lower the local commission for smaller traders Or smaller if you didn't trade that much, but it hasn't had an impact to us or the market overall. And the last part, digital remote device, yes, it's definitely potential. It's just a matter of prioritization, of course, especially then versus the private banking channel there as well to move not just for the Self made guys, but also then do digital remote advice to that segment. And they have a tool for that on our platform already that they can That's great. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, Gurjit. So We'll move on to the next person that is Nicholas McBee from DNB. Good morning, Nicholas. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you, Niklas. Please go ahead. Great. Thanks. So yes, just first a follow-up question on costs and your cost Guidance to or target to keep cost flat until 2023. If you could reflect on this target How important you think it is given the current revenue environment? I mean and how is it the balance between maybe investing a bit more and just the strong Revenue tailwinds to kind of expand more aggressively? Or what's the kind of value you think in keeping costs flat Until 2023 at this point. Yes. As you know, I mean, we come from a higher cost level than Our peers, we are now moving down when it comes cost to savings capital and some of the competitors are moving up. So we might meet in the middle somewhere. And we also increased, as you know, our cost base with SEK300 1,000,000 between 'seventeen and 'nineteen. I mean, The main investment there was product and tech. So we do see that we have room in the cost base for both developing the platform, but also select marketing initiatives. But of course, I mean, we will guide the growth rate of 10% to 15% on customers year on year, currently at 38 And of course, if this continues, we will put some pressure on cost. And we work super hard now in all dimensions to automate exactly everything we can. But we need to it takes some time. We need to catch up with that. But so far, we see that we can maintain the cost guidance. Okay. Thanks. And then a couple of other questions on the quarter. First, If you could give us the information about how much of the non transaction commissions that stem from mutual funds in the quarter? And then Secondly, also related to the quarter, the other operating income line was very strong in the quarter as well. If you could give some color on What drove that strong increase in other operating income in Q4, please? You want to take those, Lars? Yes, absolutely. The relative share of the mutual fund income is About 10% to 15% on an overall basis fluctuates all the time, but that is not the main thing for us, but About 10% to 15%. Regarding other income, of course, we had some IPOs activity that was higher here, especially compared to the Q1 during 2020. And that is the main reason for that high increase in other income. Nikolas, on the mutual funds, I think the question was of how large share is that on non transactional income, Was that the question? Yes, exactly, Pest. Sorry, I thought you were mentioning the overall. It is the main part of it. I mean, we have some other revenue streams, but the absolute main part is from mutual funds of the non transactional. Okay. Yes, if you could clarify that or perhaps get back to that afterwards would be interesting because I guess you include revenues from Nordea Markets in that income line as well. So it would be useful if we could break those up, please. Okay. We can see I would say about 7%, 75%, but I'll come back. Okay, perfect. That's all for me. Thanks. Thanks a lot, Nikolas. So we have the next person and that is Karl Bria Derngen from Berenberg. Good morning, Carlos Gare. Hi, good morning everyone. I just wanted to Check a little bit up on the I mean the current very amplified market volatility. We see a lot of interest from retail investors Jumping on sort of the GameStop, AMC, etcetera. And given the strong growth that you have, are you seeing any other retail brokers or any Continental European brokers trying to capitalize on the strong growth and trading activity we see in the Nordic region. So just in general, what do you see on the competitive landscape? And do you see anyone trying to creep in and take market share? And do you see anyone trying to creep in and take fair market share? Not really, I would say. We have, I mean, The main players, I mean, you know in Sweden, Samansa and in Norway, it's S Bank and Pareto and mainly then Pareto is probably more GameStop platform. And in Norway, it's of course, Sakso. We have also eToro, but it's been small in Denmark. But we haven't seen any big movements to from anyone to try to capitalize big time on this in the Nordics. Okay, thank you. And another one, I mean, obviously the growing savings capital It's getting a boost from the EKP or Engenparkschondor in Norway, for instance. And if If you continue to win market share and savings capital going out of the incumbents and the life insurance companies as they go over to the platform, How long do you think you can sustain this growth rate before the incumbents truly start to wake up and say that they're losing out too much market share from the life insurance business now that You taking this market share as well. Do you expect to see any headwinds or competitive dynamics happening if you continue to Take a lot of market share from DNB Life Insurance, Storebrand, etcetera in the Norwegian market? Yes. It's a good question. I mean, but overall, I mean, if you look at the total market We have 5% of the addressable market in Nordics across all products. And in pension, we are even smaller. So overall, with the big banks and insurance companies, I mean, we focus on one thing only and it's to build the best platform For Savings and Investments, that's what we do every day. In the big banks, they do a lot of stuff. So and we're still small, so it's not that easy for them to really just Lower price or develop massively on the functionality because we're probably going to be 1 step ahead of them. But I see, I mean, especially in Norway with EPK, we are so small yet. So I think we have many years of good growth there without any Big impact to the market, so I would say. Thank you very much. That's all from my end. Thanks a lot, Karlos Karl. I think that was it for the questions. Great. Thanks a lot guys, great questions. Before we close, I can say that next thing that happens when it comes to financial At Nougneet is that we publish our monthly statistics for February on the 2nd March and after that our annual and sustainability report for 2020 on the 24th of March. So thanks a lot for joining in today and for your interest in Nordnet. All information about us is available on our corporate website, nordnetab.com. Bye bye for now. Thank you. Thank you very much.