Welcome to the Scandic Hotels Group Q3 Report 2025 presentation. For the first part of the conference call, you will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, you are able to ask questions by dialing pound key five on your telephone keypad. Now, I will hand the conference over to the speakers. CEO Jens Mathiesen and CFO Pär Christiansen, please go ahead.
Thank you very much, Speaker, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning. My name is Jens Mathiesen, I'm the CEO of Scandic , and I'm here, as always, together with Pär Christiansen, our CFO. Please turn to page two. As you probably understand, we have a packed agenda for today, so we will start with the quarter and some updates on that, and then give you an update on the acquisition of Dalata afterwards. Let's move straight to the highlights of the quarter, and please turn to page four. We deliver a strong performance with good growth, result, and strong cash flow development. Net sales reached SEK 6.4 billion, and excluding negative currency effects, organic growth was over 5% in the quarter. We continue to meet the market with high efficiency and very tight cost control. The Nordic hotel market remained good.
Norway once again delivered a very strong quarter with organic growth of close to 10% and improving margins. Sweden performed well, and Denmark showed momentum. We are developing Scandic at a good pace and continue to grow our portfolio. We have now launched Scandic's new app, which, together with our new website, loyalty program, and the other commercial initiatives that we presented at our Capital Market Day, marks an important milestone. With all of this, we are building a much stronger commercial platform and are moving past the major investment pace, which means lower investment needs going forward. Looking into the fourth quarter, we expect good market conditions. Bookings are good and in line with last year, and as usual in the autumn, we see an increase in corporate travel and conferences.
Lastly, the acquisition of Dalata, which I mentioned, is progressing very well, and we will take a closer look at that later in this presentation. Please turn to page five. We report good results with an adjusted EBITDA of almost SEK 1.1 billion, which was in line with last year. This corresponds to a margin of 17.1%. The slightly lower margin compared with last year was mainly due to currency effects and somewhat higher costs related to the overall higher pace of commercial development. Pär will give more comments on this later in this presentation. Please turn to page six. You know this page. Here you can see the market occupancy rate for the quarter compared with last year. Overall, market development was good, with higher occupancy across all countries and each month. Sweden continued to improve, and the Norwegian market performed very well.
Denmark also performed strongly, supported by growing international tourism to Copenhagen. In Finland, occupancy was higher, but pricing remained weak due to a soft macro environment and also tough comparables in Finland following a very strong event calendar, especially in June and July last year. All in all, the Nordic market shows good momentum. Scandic's occupancy rate was around 74%, in line with the market. Please turn to page seven. This slide shows market data for average room rates in Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark, indexed to the corresponding month in 2019. At fixed currency rates, the market's average room rate grew by 3% year-on-year. Scandic's average rate for the same market declined slightly compared with last year, but when adjusting for currency, our average rate grew by 2%.
The slightly lower average rate was mainly due to the weak pricing situation in Finland, where you all know we are holding a large position. It's positive, though, that the demand is there and increasing, and when purchasing power also returns, the market will be able to charge higher prices also in Finland. Overall, pricing remains solid, supported by good market conditions. Please turn to page eight. Here you can see the market RevPAR development indexed to the corresponding month also in 2019. At fixed currency rates, the market RevPAR grew by 7% year-on-year during the quarter, and Scandic's RevPAR at the same markets increased by 4% compared with last year and 5% at fixed currency rates. This reflects a continued good demand environment across all markets, supported by solid occupancy and stable pricing. Please turn to page nine.
Here you can see the pipeline, and since the last quarter, we have actually signed agreements for two new hotels in Hamburg, as well as a franchise agreement for a hotel in Florø, Norway. In addition, we have decided to open our first Scandic Go in Norway. By the end of the quarter, we had around 3,400 rooms in our net pipeline, corresponding to about 6% of our total portfolio. We continue to grow in a very disciplined way, with a well-balanced pipeline in line with our targets. Please turn to page 10. Here you can see our two new hotels and two new projects coming up in Hamburg. The first one is located right in the heart of Hamburg, with direct access to the city's main bus terminal and train and subway lines. It will offer 325 rooms and is planned to open in 2028.
The second hotel will offer an exclusive experience in downtown Hamburg, within walking distance of Berliner Tor. It will have 430 rooms and is scheduled to open in 2030. Please turn to page 11. First, Scandic Go is expanding in Oslo and Norway. We are converting the hotel Scandic Grensen into a Scandic Go, which will open in the first half of 2026. This will be our first Scandic Go in Norway. It's a great location right in the city center. The second project is Scandic Victoria Florø, a new franchise hotel scheduled to open in December this year, 2025. With that, let me hand over to you, Pär, and please turn to page 13.
Thank you, Jens, and good morning, everyone. I will now go through the Q3 financials. We saw good organic growth of 5.3% in the quarter. Norway and Denmark with strong performance, and Finland, on the other end, struggled a little bit with a tougher market situation impacting the pricing. Sweden had a stable performance. EBITDA ended at SEK 1,088 million versus SEK 1,077 million, same quarter last year. We saw some currency headwinds affecting the results, and we also had a negative non-recurring item of SEK 15 million previous year. Central and group cost is higher than last year due to investments in commercial and IT capabilities. From next year, we expect to have a group cost on a somewhat lower level as a percentage of sales. Please turn to page 14.
We saw strong operational cash flow in the quarter of SEK 2.3 billion last 12 months, improved working capital, and investments in line with plan. Please turn to page 15. We have a very strong financial position, net debt of SEK 62 million, meaning a leverage of zero times. We are well- positioned to support the portfolio growth agenda, the acquisition of Dalata hotel operations, as well as our dividend policy. I will now hand back to you, Jens, and please turn to page 16.
Thank you, Pär. As we also mentioned, Dalata acquisition is getting closer to completion, and we would like to provide a deep dive focusing on why we are actually doing this and what we can expect from it. Please turn to page 18. To give you an update on the whole process, on 11th of September, the shareholders in Dalata voted in favor of this transaction, and subject to a court hearing that is actually in place today, the offer is expected to be completed in the beginning of November. Building on a longstanding partnership, Scandic and Pandox have together established a plan under which Scandic acquires the operation and Pandox acquires the hotel properties of Dalata. We see this as a great opportunity to add a well-managed hotel portfolio with strong brands and positions in attractive markets with clear value creation for Scandic already from completion.
Once the offer by Pandox and Eiendomsspar has been completed, a carve-out process will be initiated, expected to be completed during the second half of 2026. During the carve-out process, we will assume operational responsibility for all the 56 hotels under a profitable management agreement, with day-to-day operations continuing to be led by Dalata's current management team, supporting continuity in the business. Scandic will receive a quarterly management fee equal to 4% of the revenue from Dalata's hotel operations starting from completion date. Please turn to page 19. On this one, we will move into some of the strategic rationale behind the acquisition. Dalata is a well-run business with strong brands, and I can actually say leading brands in the, especially the Ireland community, strong positions and operating in the similar segments as we do, also with the lease model.
The acquisition further gives us a leading position in Ireland from day one and also a very established position in the U.K. that forms a strong platform for future growth. These are two markets with attractive fundamentals. Furthermore, the acquisition will be highly value creative for Scandic already from the completion, with additional upside potentially post the carve-out and also in the longer term. Please turn to page 20. Next one, we will present Dalata in more details, highlighting their market position and their performance. Please turn to page 21. As mentioned, Dalata has a leading position in Ireland with around 6,500 rooms in the country, primarily in larger cities such as Dublin, Cork, and Belfast. In the U.K., the company has also established a solid presence with more than 5,000 rooms, with a focus on the larger cities such as London and Manchester.
Looking ahead, the pipeline is very attractive, with more than two-thirds of planned growth focused on expanding within Ireland and the U.K. Please turn to page 22. Dalata has demonstrated a proven track record of growth, having grown revenues by around 10% per year since 2019, with good margins and estimated profitability in line with Scandic. For the full year 2024, Dalata reported a revenue of SEK 7.5 billion. 75% of revenues are room revenues, with a balanced guest mix of around 55% corporate and 45% leisure. Similar to the markets they operate, they have a solid year-round demand, with overall strong occupancy levels. Looking at the portfolio, we have agreed on variable lease agreements with Pandox, which will create an attractive contract mix, with rent levels below Scandic's current levels. Altogether, these 56 hotels will have a balanced mix of variable and fixed contracts.
In addition, Dalata's portfolio is young and it's well invested and with estimated needs for the maintenance capex below Scandic's current levels. Please turn to page 23. Dalata has consistently increased their average room rates over time, with occupancy levels around 80%. This translates into attractive RevPAR levels developing at a very good pace. Altogether, Dalata is a well-run company with a proven track record of growth and profitability with attractive hotel KPIs. Please turn to page 25. On this slide, you see the market data for supply and demand across Ireland and the U.K., as well as you see the occupancy rates in Ireland, U.K., and the Nordics. As you can see, Dalata's key markets are characterized by attractive supply demands with solid year-round demand. Looking at the demand in Ireland and the U.K., the markets are back at pre-pandemic levels.
Ireland continued to show strong long-term potential, supported by resilient tourism demand. Meanwhile, the overall hotel market in the U.K. remains solid with healthy occupancy and room rates. The occupancy rates are also consistently higher than we see in the Nordics throughout the year. Please turn to page 26. As you can see here, both occupancy and average room rates in Dalata's market have outgrown the Nordics over time. This also holds for RevPAR development. Considering Dalata's strong presence in these regions, we would get an attractive exposure to these markets from day one. Please turn to page 27. Now I will comment a bit about the value creation of the deal. Please turn to page 28.
First of all, we expect the acquisition to be highly EPS accretive, with an EPS growth of at least 15% just from the management agreement and more than 20% following the carve-out. This is on a pro forma basis based on 2024 numbers, excluding any synergies, of course. In addition, the acquisition implies an enterprise value of around 6x 2024 EBITDA, which represents a discount compared to Scandic's current valuation. We will maintain a balanced leverage profile with leverage expected to remain below 2x EBITDA. Lastly, we will continue to deliver according to the existing 2030 strategy and financial targets that we presented at our Capital Market Day earlier this year. We are fully committed to our financial targets and also the dividend policy. Now back to you, Pär. Please turn to page 30.
Thank you, Jens. Let's start off with a brief process overview. As from the completion date early November, Scandic will operate Dalata's 56 hotels under a management agreement. We will communicate and report the managed fees and related costs in Scandic interim reports. A carve-out process of Dalata's hotel operations will be initiated. Costs will be reported as a non-recurring item affecting comparability. We will report and provide updates related to the process on an ongoing basis throughout the interim reports. As you can see the timeline, the carve-out process is expected to be completed during the second half of 2026. Please turn to page 31. Under the management agreement, Scandic will receive a fee of 4% of Dalata's revenues, which will be paid out on a quarterly basis. On this slide, we want to explain and illustrate a combined 2024 on performer basis and excluding one-offs.
Looking at Scandic and Dalata's respective 2024 reported numbers, the management agreement would have generated around SEK 300 million in revenue and around SEK 270 million in adjusted EBITDA. The adjusted EBITDA impacts include the cost associated with operating the management agreement. This cost is expected up to SEK 30 million over a 12-month period. Based on this, the total adjusted EBITDA margin would have increased by around 1% basis point. On the same basis, EPS would have increased by at least 15%, as mentioned by Jens earlier. The management agreement will remain in place until the carve-out process is completed in the second half of 2026. Balance sheet and hotel-related KPIs will not be impacted by the management agreement. Please turn to page 32.
We expect being able to finalize the carve-out process, acquire the operations, and then fully consolidate the business in the second half of 2026. To illustrate the impact of the acquisition, this slide shows an illustration as if the operations would have been acquired for a full year 2024. Based on the combined 2024 reported numbers, revenues would have increased by approximately SEK 7.5 billion, with adjusted EBITDA margin that would have been at least in line with Scandic's current level. This will translate into earnings per share accretion of at least 20% compared to Scandic standalone. This is calculated before taking any potential synergies and costs into account. Furthermore, the purchase price of EUR 500 million on a cash and debt-free basis will be paid upon completion of the carve-out process, meaning the second half of 2026.
To conclude, we expect this acquisition to create a lot of value for Scandic shareholders. Scandic's financial position is very strong, and this means that the acquisition can be done with a very balanced leverage. With that, I would like to hand back to you, Jens, and please turn to page 33.
Thank you, Pär. Now we would like to provide you with some overview on the organization and also the governance structure during the management agreement. Please turn to page 34. During the management period, which Pär just mentioned, a clear governance structure will be put in place to ensure consistency. During the management agreement, a steering committee will be established and serve as the primary governance body for Dalata's hotel operations. This committee will include senior leadership representatives from Scandic, Pandox, and Dalata. The steering committee will be involved in key business decisions such as corporate development, hotel performance, CapEx, OpEx, and of course also lease agreements. Dalata's CEO and management team will continue in their current roles, which will ensure operational continuity and also strong performance. Please turn to page 35.
To conclude this section, I would like to summarize it through a couple of important takeaways. Please turn to page 36. As mentioned, Dalata holds a leading position in their markets. They operate well-known brands in the same segment as Scandic, coupled with a proven track record of profitable growth. Ireland and the U.K. are attractive markets, supported by strong year-round demand, healthy supply-demand dynamics, and high occupancy and room rates. This transaction reflects value-creating capital allocation, with an acquisition multiple at a discount to Scandic, where we maintain leverage below 2X , as Pär mentioned, and on a pro forma basis, an immediate estimated EPS creation of over 15%, increasing to more than 20% post completion. Finally, we have established a robust governance structure based on joint decision-making between Scandic, Pandox, and Dalata.
With that, I will conclude with some closing remarks for Q3 and the transaction before I hand it back to the operator and the Q&A session. Please turn to page 38. We delivered another strong quarter. Scandic continues to perform well with good growth results and cash flows. Our operations are efficient, and we maintain disciplined good cost control. Market development was positive across most of the regions, and looking ahead, the outlook is good. The booking situation for the fourth quarter is in line with last year, and we expect occupancy to be on par with last year and price levels to be slightly higher. The acquisition of Dalata is going well, as you just heard.
It is being made at a very attractive valuation. It is expected to contribute positively to earnings from the start and provide a strong platform for continued growth and improved profitability over time. All in all, Scandic stands on a solid foundation with strong momentum, disciplined operation, and record-level leverage. With that, let's bring it back to you, operator, and start the Q&A session. Thank you.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Alice Beer from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Just [a question] on Dalata, Pandox shared that it expects an annual rental income of around SEK 1.2 billion from Dalata. Would you say that the rental agreements for Dalata hotels are similar to your standing ones with Pandox, and also do the agreements differ between Pandox and Eiendomsspar?
I guess the assumptions around Pandox calculations I'm not fully informed about, but I think it's on the reasonable levels that they're informing. Bear in mind that for the total acquisition, we will have 56 hotels, and 31 will be with Pandox. The structure of those contracts will be similar to the one we have in the Nordics with the revenue-based rent and the fixed minimum. I don't know if that answers your question. If you look at the other contracts, the 22 in the market, they are more on a fixed basis with much lower rents than this one, but also with different responsibilities.
Great, thank you. That is a good answer to my question. Also, maybe more on the U.K. and Ireland market overall. You comment frequently on the Nordic hotel market data. Have you found a suitable provider for U.K. and Ireland market data, and will you start sharing that with us? From what you have seen, do Dalata hotels generally perform in line with the U.K. and Ireland data, or is it less comparable than the Nordics?
Yeah, it's maybe a quarter too early to compare with Dalata with the market. They have a very, very strong position, especially in the home market in Ireland, and also where they are definitely leading. We will come back and share more market data also on U.K. and Ireland and also the performance of Dalata versus that. We haven't done that for this session.
Okay, great. You said that Q4 occupancy is expected to be in line with last year and a bit higher ARR. Could you elaborate a bit on this and why you think that?
We look at business on books, and when we look at the business on books, both the first part of the quarter, fourth quarter, and the last part, meaning October and December, look very solid. November is more in line with last year. All in all, looking at those numbers, we expect these things to happen. Occupancy levels are close to in line with last year, but prices are slightly higher with normal inflation growth.
Okay, perfect. Your ARR growth in the quarter was below the market. Was this only due to Stockholm, or could you give us some more color on your performance versus the market? Also, why do you think that Stockholm is struggling with prices compared to, for example, Copenhagen?
No, it's not actually linked to Stockholm as such. We're doing, actually, if you look at Sweden as a whole, we are actually delivering, I would say, also a high result in the quarter versus also last year. We are actually having a very strong quarter for Sweden as a whole. You're right, Stockholm was somewhat more flattish, if you may, and Gothenburg has recovered after the high impact of new capacity last year. No, it's more related to actually Finland.
We have a very strong position in Finland, and Finland did have a very weak July compared with last year, where last year was a very strong event calendar with Coldplay, etc., big events and concerts, which meant that prices in the whole market dropped this year versus last year, and that is impacting the total numbers. If you take away Finland, we have growth in line with markets, I would say, in almost all other markets.
Perfect, thank you for elaborating. Could you share any information about how payment of the acquisition will affect your interest expenses after the carve-out period is over?
I think it's a little bit early to say. I think the SEK 500 million will be financed with both own cash and some with our banks, and I guess it's a little bit too early to say. As you see, we have SEK 62 million in net debt now, so we're coming into this acquisition in a very good position, and we can share that later on when we know exactly the date of it and exactly how it will be. We will wait on that one.
As you know, we generate quite a lot of cash here, so of course, dependent on the timing, it's also having an impact on the amount of the loans in the end. Day by day, we will have a positive cash flow, and that's definitely supporting the whole deal in a good way.
All right, got it. Just a final question from me then. About the buybacks, do you think that it's possible that we will see buybacks in the future?
Yeah, we like in general, we like buybacks. We like both to have stability in dividend payments, and buyback is a very good tool for creating value once we generate a lot of cash. We always measure what is the best for the shareholders, and this deal with the numbers we have provided you with today shows that this was the best we could do with shareholders' money. Of course, we prioritize that versus buyback. Definitely, we could foresee buybacks in the future as well once we get on the other side of this deal.
Great, thank you. That was all for me.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Artem Prokopets from UBS. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions. Let me also ask them one by one. First, I thank you for clarifications on Dalata deal. I just wanted to double-check. I think Dalata has 13 hotels in the pipeline, including one leased hotel in Madrid. Will it all become a part of the Scandic pipeline?
Yeah, they will all become our pipeline, you can say. You're totally right. They have almost nearly 2,000 rooms in the pipeline. Dalata hosts today approximately 12,000 rooms, and they have a pipeline of 1,900 rooms that has been at least announced. They will all be part of our future pipeline. You're definitely right. It's also important to say that we have said this before, but it's good for you to know.
You know we do believe that Dalata holds two very, very strong brands in the home market, Clayton and Maldron . We will take over these brands, and we will continue working with these two brands. That also means in the future, it's not clear in all of these hotel openings whether it will open as a Scandic or a Clayton or a Maldron or which brand we will use. That's dependent on the market conditions and looking further ahead once we come into the deal. Everything is possible when it comes to these brands, but it will be Scandic-branded hotels.
Thank you. Second question on the restaurant and conference revenue. I think they declined as a percent of room revenue, so they do not seem to recover. Is it perhaps a new norm to spend less on restaurants?
Yeah, I think more. We have been extremely good during the last, I would say, yeah, maybe since pandemic in prioritizing the initiatives we run and opening hours in restaurants and also how much we want to drive the different parts of the whole F&B area. We are very good at running our meeting business, which is very stable. Our restaurants and à la carte are very prioritized.
When I say this, today we are much better at finding more efficient alternatives on the shoulder days, such as certain markets on Sundays. Instead of having a full restaurant open, we might have a bar solution with food. We also prioritize how much banqueting we want to run in all the hotels. Some of this is also, you can say, because of a very, very clear strategy around the F&B, which, as you know, has much lower margin than the room side.
Thank you. On costs, last question. Could you perhaps provide any indication of cost growth in 2026? Also, in relation to central functions, I think central function costs declined as a share of net sales compared to the previous quarter. Do you expect them to remain broadly flat in absolute terms?
I think it's a good question. I think it's a little bit too early to say. I guess we have a clear ambition to lower them as a percentage of sales. Of course, we in our cost base also have inflation and salary increases that push the costs up. At this point, we're not commenting on the absolute terms, but as a percentage of sales, they're certainly going to come down.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Jamie Rollo from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Thanks. Good morning, everyone. I've got a few questions just on the quarter and then on Dalata, so I'll ask them separately as well. The first couple are really follow-ups from the questions just asked. On the food and beverage and other line, that actually grew 1% in the third quarter. I appreciate it's been under pressure for some time, but that looked like quite a good result to me. Do you think we're now back to a level where that line can start to grow modestly, or will it continue to decline as we go into more sort of corporate-driven period from Q4?
Jamie, thank you for the question, and you're right in your assumptions on this one. No, we did spend, and we have spoken quite a lot on this topic during the last couple of years. I think we have really spent a lot of time prioritizing and securing that we are more efficient in the F&B area. This can be almost a marginal diluting if you do this wrong. I think we have shown throughout the years that we are very good at prioritizing at Scandic.
Now we have normalized it, and I believe that we have a lot of initiatives now to start growing, especially because of what we mentioned, both me and Pär today, and you know it since the last many quarters, that we have spent the last couple of years on a lot of initiatives within the commercial area in order to get a new website, a new app, a new loyalty program, a lot of new backing systems, etc., which also makes us much more capable of selling more, doing more ancillary sales, both into the restaurants, but also into the room part. Yes, we would expect this steadily to start growing looking ahead.
Thank you. On the cost question, the operating costs in the quarter were up nearly 4%, and that was quite a big increase compared to the first half when they were up 1%. Obviously, some of that's connected to what we just talked about with more food and beverage revenue. I know you won't give guidance on costs next year, but maybe talk about margins excluding Dalata. Should we expect margins next year to come under a little bit of pressure like in the third quarter? Thank you.
I think it's a mix, and Pär, you can add a few comments to this as well. First of all, we are kind of concluding most of the commercial initiatives, which of course has an impact on some of the cost level. If you look at hotel level, there is definitely a shift from even more leisure-driven occupancy during the third quarter, meaning you see occupancy is increasing, and it is very leisure-driven, meaning also more guests and more kids and more people in the hotels. That is, of course, pushing more pressure into certain parts of the business. On the other hand, we managed to save hours. That shows how we work with the efficiency to compensate that. Now we go into a more corporate-driven period, you can say, in this quarter and the next. We expect this to be a bit more normalized.
Also, the cost level, as I said, linked to these commercial initiatives, will, of course, start to go down a bit now going forward. Since we have concluded most of this, we still work on optimizing, and we will have more features coming into the app and to the web. It's not that this job is stopping just by launching a new thing, but it's actually something we will constantly develop, but at a lower, let's say, cost base than what we have seen up to now.
Yeah, and if you look from the other annual on it, I guess we believe that Norway will be quite strong even next year, and Sweden will also recover better. There's a lot of initiatives coming from government and relief, and people are experiencing a lower interest rate. I think the little bit question mark is, of course, around Finland for next year, how it will recover and what will be the trigger of the recovery, whether it will be the macro or whether it will be the stop of the Ukrainian war or something else. There was an interesting deal yesterday with Nvidia buying part of Nokia, so of course there needs some positive news in Finland. I think if you exclude Finland, I think we will see a very positive margin development, and I guess the view on Finland needs to be added to that to see the total picture.
Thanks. I have a few questions on the acquisition, if I may. First of all, on the U.K. and Ireland, as you rightly say, very good data on occupancy and revPAR versus 2019. In the U.K., there's been quite a lot of cost pressure, and that seems to be continuing, particularly on the wage front and maybe business rates with the upcoming government autumn budget next month. I'm just wondering what sort of risks you're factoring into your budgets from those inflationary pressures, which seem to be a lot higher in the U.K. than maybe in the Nordics.
Yeah, but I think, as we mentioned, you can say, we will operate this on a management fee during the coming period, and we will conclude with the planning for next year in the fourth quarter together with the team in Dalata. It's a bit too early to say exactly what the expectation is on the different parts of the region when it comes to next year. When we look at it from outside, it seems that, as you mentioned also, both Dublin and Ireland are extremely stable, still a lot of both corporate and leisure, lots of activities. When it comes to the U.K., I would say certain parts of the U.K. also still have a very high activity level. Maybe it has more been like London that has been a bit flat for a period of time, maybe with the purchasing power also weakening a bit.
On the other hand, here we're talking five hotels in that market, so I don't think it will have a huge impact on the total numbers for our deal going forward. We expect London to also normalize and come back very strongly. It has historically been a very, very strong market.
Thanks. On the strategy, some might say this is a bit of a departure from the organic growth path you laid out at the CMD, but obviously the numbers are great, and it's a great opportunity. Do you think this deal could be a blueprint for the company to expand either in new markets or existing markets in a very quick way in the future, waiting for a property company to come in and they need an operator like yourselves?
I think there will be lots of opportunities going forward, and Scandic has historically, you know, we started for many, many, many years to concentrate on really fortifying the Nordics and building a stronger platform and position in the Nordics. We are number one operator in the Nordics. That, of course, gives certain limitations for growth, which also meant that we have for quite a long time been looking at markets outside the Nordics. If we, of course, waited with talking about other markets than Germany, especially where we have had our focus, we also said that we are open to look at alternatives and all the opportunities if they came on. We have been for quite a long time looking at U.K. and Ireland because we feel it's really strong markets. We think there's a lot of opportunities in that market, high occupancy and prices.
It's all dependent on the mix of leases that we can get in such a market. This deal is actually marking a huge milestone for Scandic because we, like Pär mentioned, we go in with this deal. All the 31 leases that we now make with Pandox of the 56 will be on almost like Nordic terms. We're talking about turnover-based leases with a guarantee, something which we like because then we have a common interest with Pandox in continuing to invest in the properties and securing that these properties are delivering well. I think this is absolutely a good opportunity. With this model, we like to continue to grow, and also, of course, the 22 leases that are on fixed leases are on much lower levels. All in all, both the turnover-based leases and the fixed leases are on lower levels than what you see with Scandic's current portfolio. That makes this deal extra attractive.
Brilliant. Just finally, quickly, when do you think group leverage will be back to your under one-times target?
I think you can calculate it almost. Jamie, I know you're good at this, but you can see when you look at our ability to create a lot of cash, which Pär also showed you on this one, you know, more than SEK 2 billion in positive cash flow. You can calculate how fast this will come down. We will continue to generate a very, very strong cash flow, and we have also said that we continue with our targets for the CapEx part of Scandic. We also mentioned that we expect Dalata portfolio to be on lower levels than ours due to the fact it's a younger portfolio and it's very well-managed hotels. Of course, for a certain period of time and the years to come, we expect below the target and the percentage that we use on Scandic. That also creates a lot of cash for that part of the portfolio.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you, team.
The next question comes from André Juillard from Deutsche Bank Equity Research. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen. Two follow-up questions for me, if I may. First one on price renegotiation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you must be in the middle of the annual renegotiation with corporates. Could you give us some more color about what is going on? Secondly, I guess that you are hardly working on the data integration. Could you also give us some more color about potential synergies that you could expect to deliver and maybe some potential positive effect on the margin that you guide at the moment on a flattish base for next year and the years after? Thank you.
Yeah, I can start with the first one on the corporate. We have definitely started the corporate contracting period, and it's good to see that it's highly stable in the conversations with the corporate accounts. We haven't seen yet that, let's say, a cost focus related to next year. When we have these conversations, it's clear that we expect... Remember that a lot of the prices are corporates having a discount to the ongoing or running rates, meaning that we can fluctuate that up and down versus the market's development on prices. That means that we have flexibility during the year. If prices increase more, then we can follow and vice versa. Right now, all signals from...
It's early because we still negotiate a lot of maybe approximately 10,000 deals or so being negotiated, and a lot of them are being negotiated as we speak, and it will continue until early June. It seems that it's a very stable environment in these communications with our corporate clients, also expecting stability next year. For the other question, apparently...
Yeah, a good question around the synergies of Dalata. Of course, there will be apparent synergies when we come in, as Jens mentioned before, around certain deals, for example, the OTA business. Someone will have a better agreement than the other, and there will be also other synergies where we can align and combine the IT environment and get scale from that. Lastly, of course, there will also be possibilities to work in a different way together as a team. I guess it's a little bit too early to say exactly how that will play out and who will do what. Of course, there are two full organizations today, and we could find a way to together work in a smarter way. I guess there will be synergies, but we're not guiding on that at this point.
The last question [cross talk]
I think it's related to the margins, and I guess given the pro- forma we showed you earlier on the slide, it's of course expected that the 1+1 will be higher than two, as Jens said before. There will be a period of integration and transformation, and after that, you could expect support from these synergies into the margin. Right now, we will keep the financial target, as we said, with 11% and 5% growth, as well as a leverage below one as the first part. If we change that, we will come back.
Okay, thank you very much. Maybe a follow-up question on my segment. If you're saying that the corporate segment is relatively stable, do you see any improvement on big events, seminar, convention, and so on, which are also important for the F&B part of your business?
Yeah, I think it's also a very good question because I think we have discussed quite a lot during the last, maybe since pandemic, how the recovery would be in this segment. I think meeting business as a whole is absolutely back on pre-pandemic levels or close to being back. The thing that we are still lacking, and which I really don't know if that will come back in the level we saw pre-pandemic, was kind of the global big congresses where you saw like 15,000 doctors coming to Gothenburg or Copenhagen. You know, we see less of those. They are there, but they are not as big maybe as they used to be, and they are not as often. I don't know what we should expect in the future if people would gather these, you know, huge amounts of people in a city.
That has not, on a global scale, not now I'm not talking about Nordics, I'm talking globally, that has not really recovered to the levels we saw pre-pandemic. I don't have the answer for whether this, we don't include it in our plans. We know also that we operate the business without expecting this to happen. If it happens, it's just an add-on to the results. They are there, but they are on a lower level than pre-pandemic. I wonder if that ever comes back on these levels. The normal mice market is very stable, I would say. If we would see a growth in the market, we probably also see a slightly smaller growth on the mice segment following that.
Does that mean that in terms of ponderation, the leisure segment is still slightly above the corporate one? Do you expect that to continue or not really?
Everything and all trends are absolutely confirming that this will continue. We have seen that during the, I've been with Scandic for more than 17 years. In all that period, you know, leisure is kind of in percentage outgrowing the corporate year on year. It's not yet on 50/50, but it becomes closer and closer. There are no signals that this would change. We also incorporate that when building new hotels. We are much more leisure-oriented in securing that we can take our share of that growing segment. You will be seeing more and more leisure-focused hotels with those facilities that are catering for that. Yes, I would expect that to continue to grow. It's also individuals versus groups on the leisure side. Much more leisure-driven, much more individually driven. That's what we are catering for.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Raymond Ke from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning. A couple of questions for me as well. First one, just a follow-up on a previous question. I'm not sure if I misheard, but on the Scandic brands with relation to Dalata, was I correctly understanding that you said that hotels in Dalata's pipeline could potentially fall under the Scandic brand? Or did you say that you have plans to change, for example, Clayton and Maldron's brand?
No, thank you for the question, Raymond. No, it's very clear that the current hotels, we have no plan of changing the brands on the current Dalata hotels, meaning that the Clayton and the Maldron that they have in the markets will stay with these brands. We will take over and own these brands as part of the acquisition. They have a pipeline, and of course, we will overlook that. For instance, right now, they are opening a hotel in Berlin next year, and that means next summer. That has been created as a Clayton with interior design and look and feel and everything from a Clayton. That will be opened as a Clayton. What we will do with a hotel in Madrid coming up later in years to come hasn't been decided yet. That could be a Clayton, that could be a Scandic.
That could be or even a Maldron. We are looking to grow with all our brands going forward, and we spent quite a lot of time already together with the Dalata team as a pre-work to this deal going through, you know, to organize ourselves rightly with the different brands. You should expect to see growth in all the branded segments.
That's a very, very helpful clarification. On what you wrote there about the market situation when you look into Q4, occupancy on par with preceding year and price levels to be slightly higher in the fourth quarter. Could you maybe provide some more nuance with respect to each geographic market?
Yeah, I think we keep that on a very, very high level because it's really, it's a bit too many details maybe, Raymond. I think we expect, you know, quite a lot of stability in the markets where you have seen this stability. What is a good thing is that we have seen that we have an increase in occupancy in Finland, and especially some of these weak areas like the Vantaa, the airport area of Helsinki, as well as Gothenburg last year has started to recover. It is two important markets that are starting to recover. Once occupancy is growing, then it's also easier for us to yield on prices. Of course, we work a lot to start improving prices also in Finland. It's yet to be seen whether we manage that and whether the market manages that because the market has been a bit weak in Finland.
It's a bit too early to dare to estimate whether we manage to see those results already in Q4 or whether we need to wait a bit for the beginning of next year before we see it. It has a positive development on occupancy, and that's always good that we know that yielding will come.
Great. The final one for me on, I guess it's too early maybe to talk about integration costs with relation to Dalata. Could you maybe talk a bit about the costs associated with the carve-out process itself and if you see some extraordinary costs during the carve-out period?
I think what we mentioned today is during the management agreement, we will, of course, have some costs related to that. We gave some guidance on the other parts. I think we're still discussing actually how the carve-out will take place, and therefore we're a little bit open in the end date. There are variable ways to do it, and therefore I think it's too early to talk about the cost related to that. Also, even going more forward to the integration to that, we will report in every quarter how this cost has been developing, and I'm not sure whether we will guide on it yet.
Okay. Got it. Thank you very much. I'll get back in line.
Thank you, team.
There are no more questions at this time. I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.
We just want to thank you for listening in and for all your very, very valid and good questions. If you have any more questions, feel free to contact us. You know where we are. We wish you a fantastic day out there. Take care.