Good morning, everybody. My name is Lars-Johan Jarnheimer, and I happen to be the chairman of the Telia Company. Warm welcome to this investor update, and your interest in Telia's further development. We, the board of directors, some of them are represented here today, and Telia's leadership team, have an overall task: to increase shareholder value, and as an owner of the company, we are here to increase the value for you and other stakeholders in our customers, employers, creditors, and the society we are operating in. This year, the board has worked intensively, I would say, together with Patrick and his team, to update the strategy for the coming years, and I'm glad to see the outcome, which we are going to present here today, and now it's time for execution, execution, execution.
Telia plays a special role in the markets we operate. We provide vital infrastructure and services to customers across all parts of society, depending on resilience in the service and the network we provide. Fulfilling this role, while at the same time delivering high shareholder returns, is and has sometimes been a challenge for Telia. I, my fellow members of the board, and Patrick and his leadership team, all wish to lay a new foundation for Telia, and to push it into a new direction of travel, which gives us a better odds of tackling these challenges at the same time. To me, it boils down to three specific things. The first one is customer obsession. It has been a lot done in the company, the last couple of years, but there is still much to do. Secondly, speed. Speed.
Speed is very much related to simplicity, and very much of the organizational work we have done here recently is just to increase the simplicity in the organization. And the third one, not to forget, is to execute what we really are about to do. Today, Patrik, Erik, and Anders will present some of the cornerstones of this foundation. Like all plans, it does not come without risk. It will require difficult decisions, tough decisions, and very strong focus on execution. But I and the board firmly believes that this plan will make Telia Company perform significantly better. We are happy to have you here to listen, and we hope we all can help to answer any question you may have. Thank you again, and warm welcome.
Thank you, Lars-Johan, and good morning, everyone, also from me. I am Erik Strandberg, Head of Investor Relations. This is the program today. Patrik, our CEO, will present where Telia is today, and our value creation plan for the years ahead. We have chosen, as a special focus today, Sweden. This is our largest business, and it's in a transformative period in the next three years. We have chosen to focus extra on that, and Anders Olsson, who is the head of Telia Sweden, will present this section. Patrik will come back and give a very condensed overview of the other markets. But our heads of the other markets are also here today, so please take the opportunity to learn more about these businesses afterwards. Eric Hageman, our CFO, will present the financial building blocks of this plan. Patrik, let's get started.
Thank you, Erik. Good morning, everyone, again, and warmly welcome, also from me here today to our Solna office, our home for Telia Company, and also welcome to all of you participating online. I joined this company February 1st, so I've been here approximately eight months. During my first two, three months, I really focused on traveling around, you know, out in the markets and meeting customers, sitting down with employees. I think in total, I have had individual talks with around three hundred people. Of course, to better understand the Telia, how we operate, the services that we are delivering to our customers, how they are appreciated, but also hear what can actually be better. I'm very proud of what I've seen so far. We have. I mean, first of all, we have engaged and committed people.
We are acting in very stable, and I would say, predictable markets. Our customers are appreciating our services more and more, and in those markets where we operate, we have strong position, and that is a very good start. But of course, there are many things that we can do better. And one thing is definitely around execution, what Lars-Johan just talked about. And this is also what we will go through with you here during the day. But before I start, I also want to take the opportunity to introduce and present my colleagues, the senior leaders here at Telia that are participating today. But I will start also by two board members in addition, apart from Lars-Johan. Ingrid Bonde, one of our appreciated board members, and Thomas as well. Welcome, welcome to you.
Let's now look into the senior management team that we have here in place today, in here. We have, starting on the upper left, Mathias Berg. Mathias, where are you there? Mathias is heading our TV and media business in Sweden and in Finland. We have Holger there. Holger is heading our Estonian business. Giedrė, next to Estonia, of course, Giedrė is heading our Lithuanian business. We have Heli. Where do we have Heli? There we have Heli. Heli is heading our operation in Finland. And then finally, on the unit side, we have Stein-Erik, our big man, Stein-Erik from Norway, heading our Norwegian operations. Then group functions, starting first with Stefan Backman. We have Stefan there. Stefan is our Group General Counsel and also responsible for corporate affairs. We have Eric. Eric, you will speak then later on today. Eric is our CFO. We have Hein.
Hein is not here yet, but he will come. Hein is our acting Group Operating Officer. He is also heading technology, but he will be here in a while. And then, we have Anders. Now, we take Anders first. Anders, I have already introduced you, so you can sit down again, sorry. Ola, I mean, Ola, where is Ola? There we have Ola. Ola is responsible for group communication, also brand and sustainability. And finally, we have Maria, representing people and our culture. So then I hope all of you that are visiting here today, that you take the opportunity to speak with them after this session. And also, when we have the Q&A, each representative here will also, of course, help and answer the question that you may have.
But now let me talk about Telia and where we are today, where our strong areas are, and where we have our challenges, and also, of course, opportunities. So we are acting in the Nordics and Baltics. We are serving some 26 million subscriptions, and our three largest markets, Sweden, Finland, and Norway, represent 76% of our service revenues and 85% of our EBITDA. But we have, of course, also businesses in the Baltics, and although they are very small, they are performing very well. Then we have our TV and media unit operating in Sweden and Finland, again, headed by Mathias. It looks today very small on the bottom right chart, but we are now turning around that and will contribute as soon as already in 2025. So that will be very positive.
Let me start and say, continue what our chairman said in the start. Lars-Johan said that we are a special company, and we have a unique digital infrastructure position where we are basically at the epicenter of digital development. We have our fixed networks. We are leaders when it comes to best 5G network. We have incredible robust transport network, and we have our data centers. This position in the center of digitalization is giving us the opportunity to deliver mission-critical to military defense, to civil defense, but also to hospitals, et cetera. But it's also business-critical for small, medium, and large enterprises, and we are also there for the mass market for consumers. This unique position that we have comes, of course, with responsibility, but it gives us also many business opportunities.
If we look at our market, what, what kind of region it is, well, we're covering around 25 million people, and it's a very good place to be. We have stable democracies, we have robust markets, and good economic base for healthy levels GDP per capita if we compare to European average, and we are also quite happy with the positions we have, where we are either number two or number one in all those markets, and if you look at in an international perspective, majority of our business are located in high ARPU markets, where people tend to spend quite a lot on telecom and media, and more importantly, they spend even more every year. It's also important to mention that the digital maturity is high and that people and businesses are adopting and exploring digital technologies to transform and grow.
Most of the fiber in our region is already built out, with the majority of the markets at 80-90% on the fiber coverage. And we look at 5G from our perspective, we have 94% now population coverage in this region. So it's a very digital and mature market. So then let us look into our own performance and look at Telia for the last couple of years. Well, first, I need to mention that very positive is that we have returned the company back to growth. We have now been growing the company for 13 consecutive quarters, which is good. We have also seen EBITDA increasing to around 5% or mid single-digit.
We also see that we're encouraged to see that the customer satisfaction shows a positive trend, and we have a TV media business that is in the midst of an impressive transformation. We have modernized our mobile networks, and we have also strengthened our spectrum portfolio. We remain, of course, the position as the infrastructure leader in our region. We have made significant progress when it comes to sustainability, and we will come back to that later during my presentation. But also, let's look into, as you have noted, I mean, performance has still not been best in class, and we want to be best in class. Here, we are raising the bar. There are activities that we need to continue with and things that we urgently need to change.
So we, of course, need to continue to grow our business, to maintain our infrastructure-leading position. We need to modernize our IT; it's given in the business that we have, and have our eyes on the cost, so we are disciplined and continue with cost reductions going forward, and of course, being very active when we talk about how we will handle our portfolio, but then we have areas that we need to improve. In order for us to be the execution company that Lars-Johan and the board want to see, and also we, of course, in GEM, in Group Executive Management team, we have areas where we need to step up. We need, of course, to be much faster.
In order for us to be faster, we need to simplify everything we do in the company, from the structure down to product and the IT side as well. We need to take decisions much closer to where the business is done, i.e., much closer to the customer. Accountability needs to be clear. It sounds very easy to understand, but here in Telia, we are making things very complex, and it's difficult to really understand who is really responsible and accountable for what we are doing. Then if you look at our investments, we need to be much more disciplined when it comes to how we allocate CapEx, how we use our capital in an efficient way, focus much more on return on investments, and also how efficient in total we handle our capital.
Of course, what's given, we will never let our eyes away or off the cash flow. We need to generate cash flow that covers the dividend as a start. That is also why we have changed the definition, as you have seen this morning, on the press release. These realities have guided us when we have set the new strategic priorities for the coming years. Let's move in on to look into the plan from today until 2027. We call this our value creation plan for that period. Let's start with the targets. Our ambition is, of course, to radically simplify, optimize, and make Telia fit for the sustained profitable growth going forward. We have set ambitious targets.
We want to grow our service revenues by 2% per year, the EBITDA CAGR by 4% per year, and we want to reach a cash flow of at least SEK 10 billion in 2027. This is really raising the bar, but we have also a clear plan on how we want to create more value for our customers, our shareholders, all of you here today, and of course, our employees. So now let me go through how we will deliver on this plan. We see three main building blocks to achieve this. The first one is about strategy and our strategic priorities, focused on simplification, where we have already started the progress, the job, the work, to decentralize and increase speed, and of course, efficiency. I will speak more about that in the next section.
The second one is actually transitional business here in Sweden. Sweden is an important part. It's our home market. It's 40% of our business, and Anders will talk more about that later on because it is an important part of the building block for deliver on this plan. Thirdly, we want to be much more deliberate and also choiceful when it comes to capital allocation. And Eric will, in his section, talk more about this and also how we use the financials look going forward, but again, how we'll use more clever the capital that we generate. What is then our strategy? This is, in a simple way, trying to explain the strategy on one page. The first, the purpose, it reinvent better connected living.
This is the same as before, and we really want this remains at the core of everything we do. We want, and we will be a better Telia for our customers, our employees, of course, our shareholders, and the society where we operate. We will continue to operate in the Nordic and the Baltic area, and we will continue to operate where we have the position to be number one or number two. We will win by inspiring our customers with good services, seamless and simple. We will continue to invest in our network to have the best network available, and also the technology quality, and of course, what's given is that we have the trust position. We have been very long in the market. People, customers trust us, that we are delivering good service to them.
But underneath all this, of course, is everything we do to make it work, to get things done. Then, let's talk about our key, key priorities: simplify, innovate, and growth. Let me start with simplify. You know, when I started here at Telia, during my first two, three months, which I talked about in the start, I sat down with around three hundred people, asking them really to get their feedback on what they believe in in Telia. And what many of those told me was that, "Patrik, help us to reduce complexity. It's very difficult to work here in Telia and to get things done. Every time I need to do something, I need to ask at least five stakeholders or five other people, which hindering me and slowing me down in my work.
So please, please help me to simplify." And of course, the feedback, and it was not only one, it was many people that said that, of course, that is an important input, and it's of course not good enough, that we need to address and do something about. So simplify is about creating a faster and more efficient Telia through simplification when it comes to our organization, IT, networks, and products. This is a very, very important slide. We announced on September fourth that we're implementing a significant change program to simplify and clarify our operating model dramatically, dramatically. And let's go back a little bit in time. A few years ago, Telia introduced a new operating model with the ambition...
Or the idea was really to, okay, instead of developing platforms, products, technology in every country, let's do it once on a central part. We have tried to do this, but it has been very slow, and it has been very costly for us to do it. When we try to do one solution that should fit for all markets, it has been very complex. Because the demand from the customers differs between the market, and the positions we have also difference in the markets. Now we have seen that we cannot continue to do that, so we need to create a change with that model. What you see here on the screen is where we're coming from and what we're moving into.
So what we're doing is proportionally take out a higher proportional number of people on a central level, put much more accountability and decisions closer to the customers, i.e. we will decentralize the model. We will, of course, keep things that make sense to keep. So this is actually to reduce the unnecessary coordination, avoid duplication of work, increase the speed that's given, precision, and but also end-to-end accountability. So this is what we recently exactly tried to address. So again, what we're trying to achieve is proportionally higher reductions in common group and support functions, while protecting our countries where they are closest to the customers, where we want also the decision and the accountability to be. If you combine all the central functions in group, we are more than 5,100 people.
One in four employees have been working centrally. In our new organization, the target, which we are now in discussion, of course, with the union, so this is subject for union negotiations, the number will be half as much, reducing the number of total resources drastically by around three thousand people, and this is exactly what we announced September fourth. Of course, we will still have some common resources and common technology unit, but a much smaller one and with a clear objective and where we see clear synergies that this makes sense to keep. If it doesn't make sense to keep, we either move it to the market or we just take it away. This will actually move the execution power and accountability into the markets. So every CEO is responsible for their P&L and their business local in the markets.
All in all, this change will also save 2.6 billion SEK. Out of the 2.6 billion SEK, 0.3 is CapEx. The rest is OpEx, immediately, of course, impacting EBITDA. But it's not only about organization, and we will simplify beyond the structure and the organization again. We will continue to replace legacy, of course, in our IT networks. We want to continue to simplify and modernize our IT environment for consolidation and to drive out cost and improve, of course, customer experience. This includes, for example, the big transformation of our complex B2B systems in Sweden. Anders will touch on that later on in his presentation.
But we will also take steps to modernize specific capabilities in Finland and Norway to approach less complex IT and a higher level of automation, and of course, again, better customer experience. Now, I talked a lot about simplify, but I cannot stress enough how important this work will be in order for us to be better when it comes to execution and a higher degree of customer focus. Let's now turn into the next strategic priority, innovate. There is continuous innovation going on across our operations. Most of it is incremental innovation, close to our core products and services. We also innovate around improving our customer experience and our ability to tailor and personalize offerings to each individual customers. We like to highlight a few bigger initiatives that we have. We have a 5G innovation program that we have named NorthStar.
This is a cooperation we have together with Ericsson, and we have a similar in Finland, named Sirius, that we have together with Nokia. Here we offer leading Nordic businesses access to the latest 5G technology to explore how it can advance in their business. Another one is smart electricity grids, which Anders will talk more about later on. It's, of course, not possible to stand here today without mentioning the amazing technology, AI. I want to briefly touch in on what we are doing, because many are, of course, very curious when it comes to AI today. At Telia, we are taking a broad approach. We are looking into agent support, sales, marketing, IT, as an example, but also actually how we run our networks. We have been able to try a lot and very broad at a reasonable cost.
We have learned that technology is evolving very fast, and that educating people and selecting the right partners are very critical for us. The value we get out of those pilots are increasing, or is increasing all the time, but it is also a quick developing area. We are optimistic about the future, and we have already scaling up the first pilots. There is no doubt that AI will play an important role for us and our customers going forward, and the scaling up is around agent support, where we see automation coming in, of course, and self-service, but also in interaction analytics, because here we get the opportunity to be much more precise in what we offer to the customers. So we save time for the customers, but we're also much more relevant, and these are areas that we're now trying to scale up.
There are some global trends to drive demand for trusted premium communication. So now we will move into the growth sector. Digitalization continues to transform all societies where we operate, and cybersecurity threats are increasing. For us, this represent challenges, but also business opportunities. The market for digital security service is expected to grow with 12% per year going forward, and IoT services growth also expected to grow equally fast. And national security concerns impacting all businesses, of course, but we see that the defense spending is also now increasing, thanks to two our countries are now also joining NATO. This will, of course, increase the attention on network mission-critical communication. And remember what I said in the start, we are at the epicenter when it comes to developing digital societies.
With the networks that we provide, and the position we have, and the trust we have, we are able to offer solutions to the most advanced customers within the military defense. Again, this creates, of course, demand for us to supply, like Telia. We have also the extensive experience, of course, and to serving these, not only the military defense, we have also the blue light customers, and they really want to have full control of the infrastructure, and that is what we can provide. Concretely, looking again to our value creation plan and the targets, we think that 2% growth going forward in CAGR is reasonable. 2% has been our speed lately, so we can. We know that we can do it if we get things right, of course.
So of course, each country have their own plans to deliver here. But overall, I can give you a couple of examples where we want to continue to grow. First of all, we can become better in serving our existing customers. We can personalize and offer more value based on our leading networks. This means that households and businesses can buy more from us. Higher share of unlimited plans is also an opportunity for us, and higher share of 5G, of course, in our mobile base. These are examples. Pricing remains a foundation of growth. We will continue to make market leadership and drive significant portion of our growth from this. Secondly, we also see an increased demand in specific verticals, and again, just mentioned, they include mission-critical communication services such.
And I think also when it comes to analytics and personalization, where we can target a more specific geographic region or customers, will play an important role also from today and during the plan period. Thirdly, of course, reduced headwind when it comes to legacy will help us, and Anders will come into that in his presentation for Sweden, because there we have a perfect time now at the moment where we are actually dismantling our copper. So now I'm talking about the strategic priorities: simplify, innovate, and growth. But our success is, of course, not connected to how good plan we have. Our success is dependent on how well we execute. And how well we execute is coming back to all the people here in Telia. It's coming back to the leadership and our corporate culture.
We have a corporate culture today that is strong and based on three values: dare, care, and simplify. We need to develop that and put more performance into our corporate culture. We need also, of course, to develop the leadership in combination with this. And for us to be successful now, we need to be aligned and stay focused on our more decentralized model. It will not only be the people, the culture that help us. We need to change the structure. That is why it is so important to be disciplined to the now recent changes we have announced with the decentralized operating model. We will need to take away issues that we have today in the structure and to simplify to help the way you are working to get this done.
There is no plan in any company that will be delivered without proper and focused execution, and that is the most important part of our coming years. Let me talk also through about key focus areas when it comes to sustainability. To ensure resilient business operation, this has been part of our strategy for many years. Our most important focus area now is to reduce the CO₂ emissions. We are targeting a net zero by 2040, and this is included Scope 1, Scope 2, and Scope 3. 90% of our CO₂ emissions are generated in our supply chain, means that we are dependent, of course, on our partners to fix this. And we are happy now because we ask all our suppliers to join science-based targets, and today, 57% of our emissions are now signed up to science-based targets.
Of course, we want 100% to come there, but it will be important, and so far, 57% is a good number. And of course, we're following up all our suppliers on their reduction and also on their circularity plans. The other important part now when it comes to sustainability is, of course, around security. We are putting now effort into providing our customers with security advice and tools for them to protect themselves, and we put significant resources into protecting our own operations. We, of course, want our system to run all the time. We understand that we play an important role in our customer's life, in society, and we take that responsibility very serious. All the efforts that we are doing within sustainability has also been recognized by the rating institutions. For example, MSCI, Sustainalytics, and CDP.
I know that they are followed by many investors, and we score well with all of them. So I hope this has given you an overview of our strategy and the priorities for the coming years. I also hope that you understand why I think simplification is so important, and that our plan to decentralize Telia is an important part to deliver on our value creation plan for 2025 to 2027, with speed and precision. So this is the first building block to create more shareholder value. I will shortly hand over to Anders Olsson. He will talk you through the next of our building blocks, the three value creation building blocks, which is about Sweden, will go from diluting actually to contributing. But first, I want to show you a short video glimpse, what NorthStar is all about when I talked about innovation. Thank you.
Good morning. That's a glimpse of NorthStar, what we have ahead of us when it comes to exciting 5G things in the Swedish market and our total footprint. My name is Anders Olsson, and I'm heading up Telia Sweden. I'll spend the coming 20-25 minutes to go through our Swedish business, which is in a turnaround right now, both top and bottom line. Historically, we have been pressured by a decline in the high-margin copper revenues, so DSL and fixed telephony, in combination with a weak development in our B2B. In the recent years, we have observed a stabilization in our B2B business, and a strong ex-copper growth in B2C and wholesale, supported by pricing.
Going forward, we see structural support of growth coming from several areas: a possibility of a continued broad and recurring pricing agenda, a clear demand of mission-critical services, both for the military and civil defense, as Patrick mentioned. Reduced pressure from copper, clearly reduced pressure from the copper in the years to come, and opportunities for operational efficiencies. And I will spend some time to go through the levers in these areas and some part of our plans. But before that, let's have a glimpse on the Swedish telco market. The Swedish telco market is back to growth, and we expect the market to continue growing in the years to come. And during the past years, we have been able to keep our revenue market share fairly stable, despite the asymmetrical exposure to copper decline.
We address all segments of the Swedish markets, predominantly with our Telia brand, but also complemented with some other brands. In the B2C, we are complementing our Telia brand with Halebop and Fello for the more price-sensitive customers, and in the B2B side, we complement Telia with Cygate, our system integrator, our home of experts in the area of cloud, security, and local networks. Based on the large network that we're having, we also have a sizable wholesale business addressing all operators in the Swedish market. Let me now talk about our distinct and strong assets that makes up the foundation of our plan ahead. Number one, we have a large and loyal customer base. In fact, more than 50% of the Swedish households have at least one service with us, and we have a very similar position on the enterprise side.
And as I mentioned, all major operators are using and buying network capacity and network solutions for us in the wholesale business. Our brand has the absolutely strongest consideration of all telco brands in the Swedish market, well ahead of number two, and the Telia brand is consistently ranked as one of the most valuable brands in Sweden. We have an undisputed network leadership position that is supported, built on our superior network in the mobile, where we today are covering more than 90% of the Swedish population with our 5G services. We have the absolutely biggest fixed network, and we have a backbone which nobody else have in the Swedish market.
The only national transport network, 70,000 km long, fully redundant, and to make it very resilient and robust, we also have 24 rock shelters and some 45 km of tunnels to serve the most demanding customers in the market. Let me now talk very briefly how we intend to leverage these assets in our strategy. You already heard from Patrick of our priorities of simplify, innovate, and grow. And let me start on the right-hand side on this slide, on the growth side. We have, as I said, more than 50% of the Swedish households with at least one service for us. For us, it's not necessarily to grow that in amount of customers to 55% or 60%. But with that base, with our broader portfolio of services, our intention is to deepen the customer relationships, and by that, grow service revenue.
Building on our network leadership and brand position, we also see possibility to continue drive a value-based strategy, where we innovate close to the core. Innovate close to the core for the consumer side means offer innovation and make sure it becomes simpler to be, and, to serve and meet, us as a customer. And on the B2B side, the innovation mean innovate together with our strongest partners, Ericsson, one example, and innovate together with our customers, and the electricity grid, as Patrick mentioned, is one of them. And on top of this, we see clear simplification opportunities.
Patrik mentioned the operating model change, that and the change we're doing to decentralization, but we also have some local simplification opportunities, such as the network modernization, which I'll come back to, how we can continue simplifying our product portfolio and continue driving efficiency, how we serve and meet our customers. In the next slides, I will elaborate a little bit what this means from the consumer side, enterprise side, how we intend to keep our network leadership position, and how all this builds up to sustainable EBITDA growth. Starting with the B2C, the consumer side. In the recent years, we have seen a profitable growth, and our ambition is to continue this by three key building blocks.
Firstly, as I already mentioned, we have a very large and loyal customer base, and here we intend to deepen the relations with these customers, both to fix the mobile convergence, but also the attachment rate. The TV attachment rate, especially on our fiber customers, is very important. Through portfolio evolution, we intend to almost double the unlimited share of our mobile base in the coming three years, together with a focus on family subscriptions, which has proven to be a power proposition to support both revenue growth and loyalization. Secondly, we intend to leverage our unique position in the Swedish market to crystallize value. Our network position is more than two times higher than the closest competitor, and we have a clear premium willingness to pay.
In fact, more than one-third of the Swedish population are willing to pay a premium for becoming a Telia customer, and building on this, our aim is to continue to drive a structured, value-based pricing agenda, which is recurring, reflecting our network leadership and the value we constantly create to our customers. Thirdly, focusing on operations. We are working constantly with channel efficiency, aiming at cost reduction and also to have it easier to be a customer of Telia, and here, a key strategic priority is to drive more transactions in our own channels, which have a low marginal cost when we want to increase the sales in those channels. That means that in online, we will optimize for e-commerce, being very focused on personalization and simplification of the customer journeys.
In our stores, which is and will continue being important sales channel, we will not only serve our customers that come into the stores, but also increase the utilization of our stores' personnel by actively contact customers in outbound telemarketing and to some extent, also the inbound. In customer service, we intend to increase conversion rates on service calls, enabled by both a mix of better agent recommendations with analytics and experts offer engines and improved sales steering. And last but not least, we will leverage new technologies, including AI, to help us better handle workload and improve customer experience. And when it comes to customer experience, by growing in our customer base to improve customer experience is a fundamental part.
So let me touch a bit what we're doing, our trends, and what we intend to continue doing to drive a continuation focus of customer satisfaction, including cost reductions. During the past years, we have focused on improving customer experience by working with our customer journeys. So we worked with support system, agent interfaces, the way we operate, the way we organize. In some cases, this has included investments in new systems and capabilities, but in many cases, there's been a relentless focus how to step-by-step improving all the customer journeys we're having with small improvements. By working with this relentlessly, how we meet and serve our customers, we have reduced the incoming workload to our customer service by roughly 50% the last couple of years.
While at the same time, as you can see on the left-hand side of this graph, we have seen a positive development in NPS, and we intend to continue improving on both these dimensions in the coming three years, but fixing the basics is still a key part of this journey. AI and how we focus on automation will be an increasingly larger role for our customer experience ahead agenda, where we expect to capture benefits from the existing pilots that we already have up and running, that Patrik mentioned. Let me move into the enterprise segment. We have the same overarching intention in B2B as in B2C, and that is to grow with existing customers. We have roughly 50% of the Swedish companies above 10 employees, which have at least one service with us.
So that's a great pool of continuation of our revenue growth by offer them a broader range of services. That means that we have an horizontal approach in our B2B segment, but we also are going into some specific verticals where we see some very specific increased demands, where we also have special operational capabilities at Telia side. And let me mention some words on the three ones you see on this slide. Patrik mentioned energy grid companies. Due to the green transition, there is massive changes what is happening in the energy grid, not the least in the country of Sweden, which is fairly big in size, where we have production of electricity in northern Sweden, but the consumption of electricity in southern Sweden. There's a big transformation on the electricity grid companies, and they need to transform.
And we, in building networks, in combination with our expertise in, in Telia Cygate, we have a great opportunity to make sure that we help them to digitalize the whole electricity grid companies. And we have some concrete examples. Right now, the biggest one, with the big electricity company, Ellevio, that we're doing this transformation with here and now. Secondly, we have an opportunity in mission-critical services with increased demand, both from the military and the civil defense. I'll come back to this one in next slide. And thirdly, in the healthcare sector, with an aging population, is requiring much more digitalization in how to treat and take care of our elderly, citizens, which is leading to a very big need of digitalization in the healthcare sector, and here we're doing a lot.
One latest example is that we're deploying 5G in some of the major Swedish hospitals, so they can provide full focus on how to deploy next generation digital healthcare to both save costs and lives. Patrik already mentioned the need of simplification, and in our B2B business, we have a clear need to radically simplify the experience of being a Telia customer. And we have a very specific and focused program for that, that was initiated 2022, to transform all our IT and processes, how we meet and serve our customers in the B2B segment. This starts to show some results already now, and in the coming years, we will dramatically shorten the lead times from weeks to minutes in coming years, in how we serve and meet our customers.
This is done by drastically increasing automation and digitalization of processes, where we remove manual workload and can shift attention to things that really creates value. So I mentioned opportunity in mission-critical. Let me take just some minutes more specifically on what we're doing in that area. The geopolitical changes in our neighborhood has triggered significant increased focus, but also increased of money in state budgets to both the military and civil defense sectors. And the recent membership of NATO for Sweden is meaning also a need to develop host nation support capabilities. Telia has a unique position in the Swedish market to serve these needs, based on both our unique infrastructure that I mentioned, but also our operational capabilities in this area. And that provides the foundation for a robust and resilient communication solution for even the most extreme conditions.
I can't go into details in this area in all parts, but let me take some concrete examples. We are collaborating with the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency, MSB, for the development of the next generation public safety network for the blue light authorities. We already went public with this during this summer, where we will have a new Rakel in Sweden, and we will have a very significant role to play in that network, and we also collaborate with the Swedish Armed Forces on mission-critical, both fiber and mobile solution, to make sure that we can deliver those host nation support capabilities that the military needs to do, and this, as you can see on the graph, means that we have a fairly clear view that we can significantly grow the revenue in this area, and more specifically, actually double the revenue in this area in the years to come.
What I hope is clear by now is that, our network position and our infrastructure capabilities is a key building block in our strategy. Let me spend some time on how we intend to maintain and develop that position. We will maintain to be the network leader in Sweden. We already reached more than 90% of the Swedish population with our 5G services, well ahead of the Swedish competitors. We will be done by our modernization of our network by end of next year. In fixed, we're the clear market leader, with some 35% market share in a very fragmented market. Now, when the volume of fiber rollout, and for us, the 5G rollout is starting to get to an end, we will both focus on connecting the remaining part of the fiber households that has home passed, but not connected.
But we'll also gradually reallocate investments to maintain the network robustness and resilience that our customers expect and value and will pay for. Parallel to this 5G and fiber rollouts, we're working to close down legacy. In end of 2025, we will close down our 3G services. In end of 2026, we will close down our copper services, and in end of 2027, we will close down our 2G services. In terms of overall CapEx, this means that stable CapEx, we will have a fairly stable CapEx, as rollout CapEx is shifted to life cycle management. We see temporary CapEx need for monetization of the copper assets in our technical sites. From the Swedish perspective, we anticipate the CapEx to decline as of year 2027. Let's take some more words about the copper dismantling, which is an important transition and transformation for us in Sweden.
For historical reasons, Telia Sweden have a dominant position in copper-based products. In fact, we are the only one that have a copper-based network in Sweden. Our financial performance has been under pressure during the shift from copper... but we're now nearing the end of the copper shutdown, and the pressure will be released both on top and bottom line, and as we are dismantling copper, a big portion of the technical real estates will be vacated and sold, and the proceeds from these transactions will fund the relocation, as well as the transition to target infrastructure, but in addition, this will eventually lead to cost saving, driving by reduced maintenance, reduced energy cost, and overall reduced complexity. I talked to a number of factors, that are supporting our EBITDA growth in Sweden. Let me summarize what I believe are the key drivers.
As you can see in this chart, we see clear reduction in years to come in the pressure from copper, as well as the potential to accelerate growth in some areas. We see a further potential in upsell and convergence in our existing customer relationships, both in consumer and in enterprise. We see a continuation of recurring pricing agenda, reflecting the value we can give to our customers. As mentioned, we see an increased opportunity in mission-critical services, both to the military and civil defense. In addition to these top-line drivers, we see further potential in structural cost reductions. Some part, what Patrick already mentioned about the operating model changes, but also capturing the benefits of a simplified agenda, reducing our network ownership costs, channel efficiency, automation, and AI. To conclude, we have the strongest market position in Sweden.
We have a large and loyal customer base in Sweden. We have a very strong brand, and we have a unique infrastructure, and we intend to leverage these assets to deepen our customer relationships, and we aim to remain a responsible market leader with a broad and recurring pricing agenda, and we see a clear, growing demand for mission-critical services that we are very well positioned to capture. Our network portfolio is starting to reach its target state with 5G and fiber rollout well ahead of European peers, and the pressure from copper is soon over. We see a clear path for EBITDA growth going forward. Thank you.
Thank you, Anders. So let me before, the intention now is to go through the rest of the countries, but before we do that, we have a colleague here that slipped in during the presentation. Hein, just, can you please just rise? Hein is then our Group Operating Officer and heading our technology. Welcome, Hein. So if you look at then the Swedish market, again, it's 40%. So you have another 60% outside Sweden, and I will try to give you a condensed overview of this market and the plans. So let's start with Finland first of all. Finland, the important point for them is to come back to growth and to turn around key financials. Finland has managed to turn around several important trends. We have great mobile networks.
We have, I mean, and also, but to enter the local networks, we have local suppliers also. Nokia is our sole supplier in Finland. We have brand perception NPS is growing, and we are growing mobile ARPU. We have also reduced cost and to manage them to increase and improve our EBITDA. We have a clear opportunity to be better. Of course, we see the opportunity to improve our operations in Finland. Our focus the coming years will be to simplify our operations, by an example, the closing down the copper, the 3G, and shut down on IT legacy, and also complete the RAN modernization. Secondly, will be to strengthen our channels.
And here we have, we want to invest in our own channels and of course, use AI, as Anders just talked in, in Sweden, in customer front and in operations. So these activities will support Hein, Heli and her team, to really stabilize, I would say, our mobile market share, because this has been an issue. We have been growing the ARPU, but the mobile market share has been diluting or reduced. This is our main focus now, to maintain that. The second one is to capture growth within the SMEA segment. Today, we have a good market share when it comes to enterprise and B2B, but in the segment SME, we have a low market share, and we will take our fair share of that market. So these are clear priorities for Heli and her team going forward.
Norway, well, Norway will continue to strive, you know, to best-in-class profitability from continued growth and efficiencies. We have strong positions and also well-diversified brand portfolio platforms in both consumer and business. We are the leader in 5G with 95% population coverage. In enterprise, we're also proud because here we're the player which has been growing the most for the last five years in a row. Our agenda in Norway is to strengthen our fixed position, but continue to grow in our partnership model. We will also accelerate the upgrades to ensure in fiber that we are responding to customer demand that we see in the market. We have around 1 billion SEK for upgrading CapEx for the coming years.
Our agenda includes also to fix quality, to upgrade, improve, and stabilize our quality in our operations, in our networks, and our services to create even better customer experience, with, of course, an increased NPS as a consequence. Stein-Erik and his team, they have a clear agenda and plan, an ambitious plan, to continue to grow mobile ARPU and keep the number one position in wholesale, capture, of course, the opportunity to strengthen our fixed business and continue to drive growth in enterprise through 5G SA, and also ICT services, since we just recently launched Telia Cygate also in Norway. Moving on to Lithuania. Lithuania is a strong performing business, and the only converged player in the market, and also well-positioned to continue to grow.
Giedrė and her team are determined, of course, to maintain the momentum in mobile growth that we have there and grow also in ICT businesses, and at the same time, develop our omni-channel experience. Telia Lithuania has a strong position when it comes to TV, in linear TV, but we have a good opportunity, a great opportunity to continue to grow in the OTT services, where we have a fairly small market share today. So there, we want to take a stronger position. Simplification, of course, is also an agenda for Lithuania, and there is much more about streamlining an organization and also our IT environment. And remember, in Lithuania, we are the tech leader with high quality.
We are also ranked number one when it comes to customer service, but maybe what I'm most proud of is actually that we are the best employer nationwide in Lithuania. In enterprise, we see good opportunity in ICT to go after, and we have, again, great position, and we have great ambitions. In Lithuania, I think your team here, Giedrė, will have good opportunity to take the shares in the market. Let's now move a little bit north to Estonia. Estonia is another strong performer and the clear market leader across all services with a very strong brand. We have the best network, we have a nationwide connectivity, and we have the highest digital share transactions within Telia Company. Our plan for 2025-2027 includes an expansion of cybersecurity in the portfolio, both for consumers and enterprise.
And we want to continue to add more value on both our TV and connectivity customers. So I think we have a great opportunity to expand also the fiber reach. Many customers are still on slow copper connectivity. So Holger and his team, they have high ambitions, but we're especially excited about the target to offer high-speed connectivity for all people and businesses in Estonia, using both fiber and mobile network to fix this. So that will take me to the last one, and that is TV and media. Our TV and media business are operating linear and digital TV in Sweden and Finland. Their main focus the coming year is around digitalization, profitability, and content portfolio optimization. TV and media, with TV4 in Sweden and MTV in Finland, offers, of course, the best-in-class content and have brands, strong brand positions in the markets.
The digitalization in our TV media business is about moving from traditional linear TV advertising into streaming, and streaming is both subscribers and advertising money. The plan then is now to compensate for the lower revenues in linear advertising TV with digital revenues. As you have seen so far this year, look at the Q1 , the gap was very narrow to compensate for the revenues, but in the Q2 , we balanced out the loss in linear TV advertising revenues with digital revenues. TV media have a clear plan in place to drive this transformation and to generate better EBITDA. We believe, regarding EBITDA, that this asset can generate more than SEK 1 billion in EBITDA, and we will see also already in 2025, that we will be very close to SEK 1 billion in EBITDA.
Of course, UEFA Champions League gave us, of course, a push in the right direction there. So be the number one streaming service to fully transform from linear to digital. These are the key ambitions for Mathias and his team. So thank you for listening. I hope you have. I've been giving you a clear view on our targets, how we will reach them, and the priorities in the group, but also when it comes to our most important market, Sweden. I will now turn over to Eric, to talk about our financial ambitions and also our capital allocation. Welcome, Eric. Thank you.
On a toilet, right? Sorry, I'm not gonna read from the computer. It's just my version of a mic stand, I guess. All right. It's so great to see you all here, so funny to see you at the back, where we normally have our sandwiches, but it's our home. All right. I need my glasses. It's old age. As Patrik mentioned, we also have other assets beyond our core telco operations that you perhaps may be less aware of. These are both partly, fully or partly owned assets, and I wanna touch on those before we discuss our financial ambitions. In addition to our TV and media business that Patrik just mentioned, we own data centers, including one for commercial purposes in Helsinki.
A substantial real estate portfolio, mainly related to the copper network here in Sweden. But also rooftop sites, which we still own. We have an ICT business, Telia Cygate. We've mentioned it a few times today, and Telia Finance, which helps our customers with financing solutions. Within, on the right-hand side, partly owned assets, the biggest is, of course, our Nordic tower platform, which we created together with our partners Brookfield and Alecta. It's executing ahead of plan. It has an EBITDA now of around EUR 130 million, up from just over EUR 100 million when this partnership started.
In Finland, we own 40% of Valokuitunen, sorry if I pronounced that wrong, Heli, in Finland, which rolls out fiber and has gone from around 20,000 households passed to around 250,000 today. In Latvia, we run a mobile and a fixed business together with the Latvian government, and we still have a small venture capital portfolio. All in all, we own significant value here, and we are operating with quite a pragmatic approach. Happy to fully own assets, or operate it with partners, but also very much willing to monetize value if that makes sense for us. Before we cover our financial ambitions, let's have a brief look at our most recent performance.
Like you've already heard from Patrik, as a group, we have, in the last three years, returned to quite consistent and broad-based service revenue growth, with all telco units contributing. This, despite pressure on advertising revenue in our TV and media business. This top line growth has supported our EBITDA development, which to some extent has been masked by the cost impact of the macro backdrop, higher salary cost due to inflation, and an increased energy bill, but as you can see on this slide in the middle, with those headwinds slowly but surely behind us, EBITDA is growing again and has done so for the last Q4 .
As we embark on the execution of our plan for the period 2025-2027, it is fair to say that we start from a vantage point of solid growth in service revenue and EBITDA, but as you see on the right-hand side, with a cash flow that has been rather erratic due to working capital volatility and rising interest rates. This is how we see our current performance. Let's reflect on how the investment community looks at Telia. As you saw on the press release this morning, we have created an ambitious free cash flow growth plan based on both an outside-in analysis and the internal work we did with the management teams of the various countries in which we operate, present here today. Also, since Patrik and I joined, we invested lots of time to better understand the market's perception of Telia.
During that period, we met with many of you present here today, and this is what you told us: firstly, that we operate in some of the best telco markets in Europe. We fully agree with this and firmly believe that having strong positions in politically, economically stable, and highly digital markets are a great starting point for being a successful telco operator. Secondly, you told us that investors want to see a more robust and predictable Telia with less cash flow volatility and with much better control of operating and capital expenditures. Thirdly, that investors want us to stay focused on telecoms as our core business. And finally, investors want stable, predictable, and preferably progressively growing dividends that are covered by free cash flow.
This feedback has provided us with great input when we worked on our value creation plan and to set out our ambitions we shared with you today. We want to increase our investment appeal, and we describe this approach as having four missions. Firstly, we have the ambition to substantially improve free cash flow generation, driven by a consistently growing EBITDA, combined with a decline in CapEx intensity, so that we cover our dividend with the all-in free cash flow already in two thousand and twenty-five. Secondly, we will be more choiceful in the assets we own and what we invest in. We need to own the right assets with the right return profile, and we stay close to our core business when we invest.
This much more active portfolio management style will not only free up capital as we divest assets, it also means we invest less in absolute terms, and we invest in projects with much better returns. Thirdly, having a healthy balance sheet will continue to be important for us. To be able to operate from a position of strength, and it gives us good access to capital markets. We continue to target a net debt to EBITDA in the two to two and a half times range. We also endeavor to make the balance sheet more transparent and working capital more predictable. In that context, as you saw on the fourth of September, we reduced the vendor financing program by 50%. This brings it much more in line with the broader industry, and it should remove any concerns investors may have with regards to this program.
Finally, as we grow our cash flow in the coming years, we want to get back into a position to grow our dividend per share, in line with our already existing dividend policy. As you have seen in our quarterly reports, we have, for the last three years, shown consistent broad-based service revenue growth. We have the clear ambition to continue to do so in the coming three-year period. This ambition of 2% revenue, service revenue CAGR we announced today, is first and foremost underpinned by a continued focus on value-based pricing across all our markets, all products, segments, and services. Further supporting this top line growth is the growing demand we see for services within security and defense across our footprint, as you just heard from Anders. You also heard from Anders that Sweden's growth rate will also increasingly benefit from the fading legacy pressure.
As you can see on the bottom right of this slide, Sweden will pretty much halve the copper revenue headwind in the coming three years, down from two to one billion. This, of course, also adds to the pot. Moving on to the other countries in our footprint, we see scope for market share increases in Finland, in Norway, and we expect structural growth to continue in the Baltics, where both Estonia and Lithuania continue to perform well. Let's now have a look at our EBITDA growth ambition. You heard me talk on the previous slide about our ambition to grow service revenue, and this is, of course, the first important driver of our 4% EBITDA growth ambition. As Patrik explained this morning, it is equally important for us to create a much more nimble organization that focuses on performance and executes with greater speed, determination, and precision.
Therefore, we announced early this month our revised operating model and our change program. We expect this program to yield at least 2.6 billion in annual savings, of which 2.3 is OpEx and 300 million is CapEx. Part of this 4% annual EBITDA growth rate is made possible because we will accelerate profitable growth in Sweden, as you just heard from Anders. On top of that, we will see margin expansion across all our other markets, most notably in Finland and Lithuania, during this planned period. Lastly, we also have the ambition to deliver an EBITDA above 1 billion SEK at our TV and media business. As you heard from Patrick, this is largely made possible by the continued optimization of our content portfolio, by driving down general operating cost, and our successful transition from linear to digital.
Let me now move on to CapEx. Over the coming plan period, we see scope for falling CapEx intensity, and we are budgeting booked CapEx below 14 billion SEK per year in absolute terms. During this period, we will finalize the implementation of 5G across all our markets, and we don't foresee any large-scale rollout of fiber. We will make selected fiber upgrades to our fixed network in Norway, costing around 1 billion SEK over the period, approximately 90 million EUR, but we will make this fit within this 14 billion SEK CapEx envelope. Still on Norway, it's important for you to know that approximately 50% of our customers are actually already on fiber or fixed wireless access.
What also fits into the CapEx frame is the investments of around SEK 800 million relating to the divestment of a local copper real estate here in Sweden, something that is, of course, temporary nature only. We will, on the other hand, also get around SEK 1 billion in proceeds from selling these buildings, and therefore, there is no impact on our free cash flow on a net basis. As said, we aim to achieve all this by investing a total envelope of less than SEK 14 billion per year, and with a much more disciplined and returns-based approach to investing, ultimately leading to an improved, improved return on capital employed. Let's now look at free cash flow. As I'm sure you saw on the release this morning, we are moving to free cash flow as our key metric.
This metric also takes into account line items such as spectrum licenses, minorities, which previously were left out of the two free cash flow metrics that we were guiding upon. We can see that in our industry, there's been some criticism of these types of adjusted cash flow metrics, which are often not appropriate for analyzing things such as dividend coverage or value per share. We simplify this. Our free cash flow metric is an all-in free cash flow. We are assuming in this definition, a normalized amount of spectrum CapEx of SEK 650 million per annum based on our historical spending. As you know, we've already been reporting free cash flow in our analyst presentation according to this definition since the beginning of the year, so we're not introducing a new definition today.
We ultimately want a measure that is trustworthy, all-inclusive, transparent, and reflects funds that over time can be made available for distribution. Our roadmap. Looking then at what we target in terms of free cash flow generation, you can see there is a clear ambition to cover the dividend by our all-in free cash flow already in 2025, and then to reach at least SEK 10 billion by 2027. Breaking this free cash flow down into its main constituents, the main driver is, of course, the 4% EBITDA growth. Secondly, as just explained, we are increasing the discipline around capital expenditures. We are raising the requirements on the business case that teams present to us, and we are going to hold people's feet really to the fire on these business cases and the returns they give us.
Thirdly, after peaking this year, interest paid for 2027 is estimated to be back down again towards the 2023 level. Four, tax and leasing will both be higher, driven by our profitable growth ambition, and working capital is estimated to have a positive, albeit more limited than in the past, contribution across the period, not driven by our vendor financing program anymore, but rather by traditional working capital initiatives, like, for example, changed billing cycles. And finally, as I said, we've included a SEK 650 million assumption for spectrum CapEx. Onto our balance sheet. Operating with a strong and healthy balance sheet, as I said, will remain a central part of our financial framework, and an important component as we build a more robust and more predictable Telia for the future.
Already this year, we have reduced interest rate sensitivity, and announced early this month that we're reducing the vendor financing balance by 50%. This will have an impact of around 0.2 times on our leverage, leaving us still well within the 2-2.5 times range. Lastly, we have a new treasurer joining in November, and together with her, we will continue to work actively on the maturity and the interest rate profile of our bond portfolio. This slide we specifically made for the analyst community, and it helps to clarify a couple of cash flow details linked to the vendor financing program. Firstly, to say that once this 50% reduction is done, we target to keep the new and lower balance flat over the coming years.
The quarter-by-quarter impact on our working capital in the cash flow statement will, of course, still occur, but it should be much lower from next year onwards. Secondly, there is up to SEK 6 billion negative impact on working capital this year from the reduction in vendor financing, which will result in a relatively limited free cash flow in the second half of this year. But we can afford it, and of course, it will make for a much more stable and higher quality free cash flow going forward. When it comes to portfolio optimization, Telia has achieved a lot in recent years, with the big-ticket items being the sale of Telia Carrier, the minority stake in our Nordic Tower platform, and the sale of our business in Denmark early this year.
All deals done at very attractive multiples, and which gave us substantial proceeds, which we distributed to shareholders via dividends and share repurchases. Going forward, we will continue to actively pursue further portfolio optimization. When and where we feel that Telia is not the best owner of an asset, and superior value can be created from exiting, we will take decisive action. This is all part of a strategy to increasingly focus on our core telco operations across the Nordics and the Baltics. We will also invest in this planned period. For example, we will actively pursue customer projects with very attractive returns, and we will consider smaller build-on acquisitions to further strengthen our business.
Overall, however, in the coming plan period, we think it's highly likely that we will sell more than we will buy, and when we have excess cash as a consequence, our primary objective is to return that to shareholders. So as you heard me already say, our capital allocation principles, listed here in summary on the left-hand side, are based on being more choiceful on what to own and what not, where to invest and where not, and is now much more shareholder returns-focused. We have the clear ambition to grow our dividend again once we've managed to sustainably cover the dividend by our free cash flow. Our stated policy is that we aim for a progressively growing dividend with a floor of 2 SEK, and we aim to grow our DPS. Potential funds available beyond that, i.e.
Beyond the money needed to cover the dividend and which we are deemed as excess, will be returned to shareholders. This is, of course, always subject to Telia Company board approval. Now let's look at our guidance for next year and our medium-term guidance, starting with 2025. We foresee this to be a strong year as we reap the benefits from actions taken this year, with service revenue growth of 2% and EBITDA growth of at least 5% next year. We have the ambition to keep booked CapEx below SEK 14 billion, so below the circa SEK 14 billion we guided for for this year. Consequently, we expect an all-in free cash flow next year of around SEK 8 billion, which covers the dividend of roughly SEK 7.9 billion in absolute terms.
It's important to point out that this around SEK 8 billion includes 650 normalized amount of spectrum CapEx, as well as dividends from minorities and associates, and the proceeds from the Kopa real estate. So then looking at our midterm ambitions, we see service revenue continuing to grow at 2% and an EBITDA averaging 4% across the period, with 2024 as a base year. Booked CapEx is expected to be below SEK 14 billion, and we expect to see gradually declining CapEx intensity. In combination, this will result in an all-in free cash flow of at least SEK 10 billion by 2027. This now concludes our financial section, and with that, I hand back to Patrik for our closing remarks.
Thanks, Eric. So, thank you, Eric. We will shortly open the Q&A, but let me first briefly summarize this presentation. We are on a journey to radically simplify, optimize, and make Telia fit for sustained profitable growth going forward. We are stepping up the pace and are raising also the bar when it comes to our execution ability. We're doing this by decentralizing, simplifying interfaces, and have clear accountability throughout the organization. Our Swedish business, presented by Anders before, can clearly accelerate its performance. We will intend to be much more disciplined when it comes to capital allocation and how we use our CapEx. The whole plan and the roadmap will give us at least SEK 10 billion in free cash flow in 2027. This is a step up.
It's all about execution, have focus on our customer experience, and executing very well on the plans that we have. Then we have good opportunity to deliver on this plan. Thank you.
Perfect. Thank you, Patrik, and then we are ready to start Q&A.
Yes.
So, and we're actually one minute ahead of time, so we've already become simpler and faster at Telia. That's great news.
Good. Great news.
If you have a question, if you're online, write it, and it should pop up here on this iPad here on stage. If you're in the room, raise your hand, and there will be a microphone coming your way. But I'll start right away. We've had a few questions this morning, Patrik. Why are we guiding for only 5%? You've made this big change program, great saving, and TV and Media is gonna increase its EBITDA.
You mean the guidance for the 5% EBITDA growth next year?
Yes.
Well, first of all, we're not guiding for 5%, we are guiding for more than 5%, to be super clear, first of all. So the ambition is more than 5%. But remember now, we are going through a huge change program in the organization, and and we have a target to have everything in place, by December 1st, but it is critical, and it's a big change, that's going on in the company. So if we see and feel that we will perform better in 2025, of course, we will update you on that at that time.
Perfect. We have a question from Andrew. Andrew?
Hi, it's Andrew. Can you hear me?
Is his microphone on?
Hear you, but not through the mic.
It's pretty close. Can't get it much closer.
Yeah, there we go.
There we go. Now it works.
Okay, yeah, yeah. Thanks, everyone. It's Andrew Lee from Goldman Sachs. I... Thank you also for the much clearer free cash flow guide. It's much appreciated, and you've clearly guided to pretty strong growth over the next, few years. What we wanted to better understand is the underlying EBITDA and CapEx intensity assumptions you're making here. Because obviously, you're laying out this big structural change in your corporate structure, which presumably doesn't repeat every three years. This is a big shift, and that's obviously helping support that EBITDA growth of 4% and the CapEx being below 14 billion SEK. We're not quite clear exactly how much in each of those cases.
I wonder if you could talk about why maybe the EBITDA growth isn't even higher than 4%, given you've got that extra boost over these next three years by, you know, from the corporate change. Is there something holding it back, given that legacy is coming down? And then also on the CapEx side, I guess one of the key questions from investors is, once you get to the end of this help of the, from the corporate structure, do we then start seeing capital intensity go up again? And I realize we're asking you for kind of four-year-out guidance, but just to give us a sense of what's going on, you know, beneath the surface. Shall I do the CapEx first?
Yeah, you can do both. Both are before.
Is it working? He can, he can hear me anyway.
Yes.
We're quite close. So yeah, we're very comfortable with the guidance that we've given, right? And a lot of time has spent in the last six months on coming to what do we feel comfortable with? What do we wanna say at the outset? So we feel very comfortable with the 2% and the at least 5%, and then subsequently, the 2% and the 4% CAGR. It's also, you know, a couple of years out, right? So we're standing here September 2024, and then we're guiding also for, you know, at least SEK 10 billion free cash flow by December 2027. That's a long, long time ahead. So we feel very comfortable with that. You also wanna cater for unknowns, right? And by definition, you don't know necessarily what they, what they are.
I think it's pretty clear if you look at the various building blocks of EBITDA for next year, 2025, yeah, that we feel very comfortable what we, what we said, and as Patrik said, but you missed it because you were getting handed the microphone, we obviously, if we see things progressing in the right direction, if we are executing according to plan, we obviously come back to you in 2025 and see if at least five maybe was too conservative. When it comes to CapEx, we feel very comfortable with the below fourteen for this plan period.
Just in terms of that tick up, so just to follow up, just in terms of that capital intensity, essentially coming down during that period-
Yeah.
Is that something that's structural into the long term, you know, beyond that period, or?
Yeah, you mean, if you look at ca-
Beyond '27.
Beyond twenty-seven?
Yeah, yeah.
It's very hard to predict. You know, I've been in the sector for 12 years before, you know. We're always predicting a lower CapEx around the corner, but then anything else, a lot of others, actually, initiatives are coming up that we need CapEx for, you know. So that the CapEx to sales will continue to go down, but will be around the 14 and just below 14. We will not be significantly below 14 because we need more CapEx, and not only but for networks, also for IT. And beyond the 2026 and 2027 onwards, it's very difficult to predict today, but we don't see a major shift going up again in CapEx, to be clear on that.
Yeah. I think the one advice I would give, have another look at what Anders was saying about Sweden, right? But it's pretty clear, we give group guidance. We don't necessarily want to guide on things beyond 2027, and certainly not when it comes to specific divisions. But I think Anders' story was pretty clear.
Just last, just quick follow-up: Could you give us any sense as to how much that corporate structure saving, you know, the SEK 2.6 billion, how that splits between OpEx and CapEx?
Yeah. 2.3, 2.3 is OpEx, and 300 million is CapEx.
Yes.
That, I think, answers one of the questions we got online, which is from Usman Ghazi at Berenberg. We have another one from him, which others have asked. Making a 15% head count redundant in three months can have an impact on morale and execution. How do you mitigate this?
Yes, of course, I understand that this is a big change, and a lot of people are involved, of course. But I must say, so far, when I talk to people in the organization, I get an okay feedback. You know, people understand the rationale and why we're doing it and what we're trying to achieve. But of course, it comes down to each individual, you know, okay, how will this impact me? And we have big respect for that. We have mitigation activities, and we'll do activities throughout, you know, the coming year to try to mitigate the, you know, the uncertainty, et cetera, that we have.
But that is also one of the reason why we want to do it very quick and get this in place by December 1st, because people are involved, you know, and we want to show them respect and do this quick so they know, so you don't live with this uncertainty too many too long time. So that's the reason why we speed it up. So of course, but we of course know it will have impact on the company, but so far, I think it's okay.
Good. Yes, there's a question here in the middle. Oh, Andreas has got the microphone already.
Yeah, I took it before.
Of course.
Andreas Joelsson, Carnegie. A bit of a harsh question, perhaps, but Patrik, I think you mentioned dare, care, and simplify. If memory serves me right, that was introduced 2014 or something like that. So, it's a company that has worked with simplification for quite some time, without then obviously having had the success. So, to boil it down, what is different this time?
Thank you. I didn't know when we introduced dare, care, simplify when it comes to corporate culture, because these are the values based on then building up then to our corporate culture. And again, what I'm trying to explain in my section was really that we, how we need to develop our corporate culture by putting in more performance into it, so we make sure that we are delivering, that we are accountable. So the difference now is that during the last years, we have tried to centralize the operating model, makes it very complex, and we took a couple of bets to saying that, "Okay, let's now centralize, develop product and services and platforms, and then scale them out to markets." What we have seen now is it doesn't work.
It's in a theoretically very correct, but in reality, it's very difficult, and it's costly, and it takes too much time. So now, the most important part now is we're changing the structure back to the countries, make them really accountable, and also support them with the necessary resources they need to be able to execute the local plans, because the business is, to the majority, local. Second one we do is, of course, continue to see, look for through the ways of working. Then, giving comfort to the short plan now to deliver, of course, yet to be seen, but we think that we have a good commitment together in the board and in the group executive management, extended leadership team... to deliver on the ambitious plan to December 1st.
That is also one of the reasons why we try to stress it now, to make a speedy decision to get the new organization in place from December 1st, and then focus anything, everything on execution. So these are the plans, the mitigations that we have to be able to deliver on the plan. So but, of course, I understand, yet to be seen, but let's see that we are capable to do it. We, I think we can do that.
Can I build-
Yes
on your, on your answer? Just because we like numbers, right, we can put those in the model. I think the simplest way, when people ask me what is make the difference, this is one big initiative, execute plan for six months, execute it in three months, versus what historically was long-term, multi-year, several hundred initiatives. That is the big, big difference between the two.
That is cell A325 in my model.
There you go.
So thanks for that. If I may have a follow-up on the centralized, decentralized, can you give some concrete example of where this has taken too long versus what would happen with a decentralized, or the customer experience, how that will be impacted in a concrete example?
Yeah, so let's take some, try to give some concrete examples. We have been running transformative initiatives when it comes to products. Try to centralize the product development and say that, "Hey, this is the architecture on products, and this will then be rolled out in all the market." The problem we have been facing is that given that the markets are in different positions, and the demand from the customers is a bit different between the markets, we have not been able to scale the centralized product development to all the markets. To the maximum, we have two markets that are using the common products, and this is because the nature of the business is local, so we need to make sure that we serve the local customers with the local demand. So that is one concrete example.
We have been driving also centralized other transformation project that has been too big, that we actually lost control of, to be fully honest, and that we now need to back off from and do much more localized. Then we have also development areas where we've seen we have been beneficial for it. In networks, as an example, the common core networks, very beneficial to have it in common, and we are among the few telcos that actually have achieved a common core when it comes to our core mobile networks. So there are areas where we actually can develop common, and those we should continue with, but the rest, either we localize it or we stop. For us, it's important also, we have doing a lot of initiatives in parallel.
We need to stop that and do fewer and do them really good. So that is also what we're doing. We are stopping initiatives. By taking out the three- these 3,000 people, decentralizing the model, we're also stopping a lot of activities that we cannot continue with. So we do fewer and do them more proper.
Perfect. Thank you.
Siyi, I believe, has a microphone.
Hello. You can hear me okay? Okay.
Yeah, perfect.
Hello. Hi, Siyi He from Citigroup. I just want to follow up on the question on the reorganization. I think my question come with two parts. First of all, I understand that you decentralize and allocate more responsibility to locals. Should we expect you actually will need to invest in the local area, in the local operations, so the net benefits coming out from your cost cuttings will be actually less, or you think that the SEK 2.6 billion will be achieved regardless? And the second question is really on the control of the local management. I understand that local management now have control of their own P&L, and I guess if you can walk us through what's the KPIs or measures that you monitor the performance in locals?
Because in the past, we have the cases that local operations has been too focused on gross adds such that they lose sight over the profitability. Just wondering what kind of things I can monitor that.
Yeah. Maria, do you want to answer the first question? I can take the second one, or do you want me to answer it? I take it? Yeah, that's fine. I trust you.
Okay, let's start with the second question. So clearly, the country CEOs have a clear P&L responsibility. Means what we are measuring them on, not only on gross ads, you know, it's actually on revenue development, EBITDA, and the cash flow, and of course, CapEx, and how well they use the CapEx. So these are the most important KPIs that we are now measuring the countries on. And then on your second question, will it add cost to do the reorganization? No, we will not add cost because what we will try to do, of course, we have a cost of SEK 1.4 billion to do the structuring program, but on top it will not be more cost. Because what we're doing is now reducing the number of people by 3,000.
Again, this is subject to union negotiation that we are now doing. We are taking a higher proportion of that on the central, common, and head office functions versus in the countries. What you don't see in the 3,000 is that we have another significant number of people that will be moved from central into local. What we are trying to achieve here is to strengthen the local operations closest to the customers and make them clearly accountable for the service and product they deliver and the financial KPIs.
Yeah.
I hope I answer your question.
And just one nuance, if I may. It is at least SEK 2.6 billion.
Yes.
And savings.
Terrence, please go ahead.
Hello. Thanks very much for the presentations. It's Terrence here from Morgan Stanley. Got a couple of questions, please. Can you just elaborate a bit more on the fiber strategy in Norway and Finland? The 90 million seems like a pretty low number, so can you talk about the various partnerships you've got and how you're mitigating-
I'll do it first.
the investment costs there? And then in Finland
Mm
It feels like your competitors are also investing a bit more into fiber, so what's your strategy there? And then secondly, my question is around the copper monetization. So you speak about the SEK 1 billion of proceeds. Can you share some assumptions around, like, how many tons of copper you got to monetize? And the timing of monetization definitely seems pretty early compared to what other people in the sector or other telcos in the sector are anticipating at their end, more, you know, next year-next decade in terms of monetization.
I'll do the second-
Thank you
Question first.
Yeah, take the second. Yeah.
So just on the copper, it's not actually physically the copper. So what this is, is the real estate portfolio where the local exchanges were, which historically used copper as an infrastructure. So we are in the process of selling those, right? This is information we've shared before. We expect to get about SEK 1 billion in proceeds from that, divided between this year and the coming two years. The cost of moving the buildings, as Anders explained, is about SEK 800 million. So it's net proceeds positive, this year, and a small positive also next year. So there's no physical copper-related related to this. Shall I say something on fiber in Norway?
You can start, and then I want to hear Leander.
Fantastic.
Yes.
Maybe just to repeat what was said in the slides today. It is indeed SEK 1 billion over the next three-year period. We have already around 50% of our customers on fiber or fixed wireless assets. We've been growing our fiber business quite steadily in the last seven years, quite successfully, and we see an opportunity now to deploy in both SDUs and MDUs. Quite happy with that. We don't foresee that more is necessary, but maybe we can ask then Eric to add a bit more color.
Yeah. I can see if I can answer a little bit. And then I think we need to take one step back to 2018, when we acquired Get TDC. Because at that time, the strategy was to then upgrade from DOCSIS 3.0 to DOCSIS 3.1, and that seems like just a technical upgrade. It's not, because you actually deploy fiber closer to the customer when you do that, to be able to get the speed that we are looking for. At the same time, also, we have now a fully fiberized metro network. That means that the backbone of what we are doing is solid and caters for then going further with the fiber. And just as Eric said, we do now have more than 50% of our customers already fiberized.
So what we will do with the SEK 1 billion over the next three years is obviously to go customer by customer. We have been focusing a lot on the MDU segment. We will keep focusing on that, but also we will be selective when it comes to the SDU market, to be able to drive up our ARPU, and doing so together with deployment of fixed wireless access, because of what you also heard, that we have more than 95% 5G coverage. But it is one final thing here, and that is the fact that we have not only the largest wholesale set of customers in Norway, but we also have the largest partner network. Norway consists of more than 100 utility companies throughout the country. 26 of them is our partners, and they will also grow, obviously.
So they connect to us, but they connect with their fiber, which again drives a service revenue for us, and also makes us have a nationwide footprint, because the Get TDC network was never fully operating throughout the whole of Norway. So that's our plan. Okay?
Thank you. Helle? Yes, we have a question here in the middle from... Sorry.
Heli's doing Finland.
In Finland. Finland, very well.
Yeah.
Yes.
I'll try to be quick. So, in Finland, as Patrick went through, we have a joint venture, Valokuitunen, which is basically doing the fiber build-out in Finland, and we own 40% of that company. Finland has been a bit different market compared to the rest of our footprint, so the fiber penetration has been historically quite low. We are a mobile country, as you know, and fixed wireless access is pretty much the standard product for the not urban areas. But we see that the fiber fever has reached Finland already now. So last year and this year, I think that we have peak seasons for the rollouts in fiber.
What we clearly see is that that will start stabilizing, so for the CapEx usage, I don't expect a big increase for next year. We are focusing more on the activation of the homes passed going forward. But I think that the key factor is that how do we balance the fiber together with the fixed access, fixed wireless access, to support the households' connectivity going forward?
Now, Fredrik.
Yeah. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Fredrik Lithell from Handelsbanken. Thank you. Thank you for arranging this today. I think, Anders, you became Head of Telia Sweden 2018, is that correct?
Around that time, yeah.
Yeah. And that was a year after that, the centralized-
The organization was announced, I think. So you had to work your way into that type of organization set up, and now you're gonna reverse all that. So it would be interesting on all this theory to hear you describe your daily situation and how this might improve your ability to win market shares in the Swedish market. That, that would be the first question. Eric, on 2025 cash flow, did you say that divesting the real estate on, on the copper will be part of that 8 billion? So can you, can you gauge that number for us, would be good. Thank you.
Should I start then? For me, concretely what this means, I think, Patrik described it in a way that I fully subscribe to, and what that means in practice is that we're moving roles and mandates and decision closer to the customer, and that is a difference in terms of taking one line of decision, rather than sometimes having two line of decision structure, so I think that is the main difference, and both in the operational day-by-day, but also allocation of funds, so if you take, for instance, the CapEx, the CapEx then will go through the country dimension completely, which historically, to some extent, has gone both into the central organization and then come to the local organization, so I think this will clearly make us more efficient and more speedy, which is the intention of these changes.
Very good. It's a very modest benefit in 2025, similar to what we'll see in 2024. So we will sell a bit more. The proceeds are a bit higher than CapEx that we have to deploy, and the delta over the three years is roughly SEK 200 million.
Great. We have, yep, a few questions on the third row. Bengt-
There.
Please go ahead.
Trying for a few minutes. Cost reduction programs are abundant among telecom operators, even in your case, and the former management had a quite extensive program. I take it from memory, I thought it was 5 billion SEK in 2023 or 2025. I think that was the number. What has happened to that? How much is that into your program, which is only FTEs? Could you describe what happened there? Did it go away, or are you still executing on that, please? That's for you two. Anders, one of the important things in Sweden will be ARPU development.
Mm.
Could you describe your plan?
Mm.
Firstly, why you have... Well, why you are where you are, and secondly, the plan to increase ARPU.
Mm.
in the Swedish market.
Mm.
Okay.
Okay, should we start with the historically? I think historically, and, and Anders, help me out, because you have been there-
Two and four. It's two and four.
What, two and four?
Two billion savings and then four billion savings, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, but start you then-
Mm
Because I have another comment on that. But start you.
Yeah. So part of the savings is in that period. We delivered that as a company, just over SEK 1 billion of the SEK 2 billion. There were reasons for that, macroeconomic headwinds, et cetera. That's in the past.
But historically, we have been taking out around thousand people per year-
Mm
You know, so, and when we looked into the business and meeting a lot of people, working very actively together with the board now, we have seen that we are still too complex, and we need to reduce the cost in the organization, in the company. So we saw that we cannot continue for doing this, because we made some progress as well, and then we fell short of the plan. So now we said, "Let's take a bigger grip now," and that is the three thousand people now. Make it bigger now, and then, of course, we will continue to take out efficiencies going forward, but we will do a bigger step now. That was, I think, the biggest change.
And we had in the plans already today, to this year, to reduce the number, and we have already taken out around 500 out of 3,000 this year. So they were already in the plan. So this is included, but I think we are accelerating the plan by doing this.
All right. On the Swedish revenue side, so I feel very confident of what the things that we have in our plan with the delivery service revenue growth. And just, just to dissect that apart, remember, the copper headwind is gonna disappear for us in the coming period. Underlying revenue development, not the least in our consumer business, have been strong the last couple of years. The other thing is that our strong position, as I mentioned, give us a possibility to price. Now, we have clearly a superior network position, and we clearly have a willingness of people to pay. So, what we will not do is focus on the gross intake, as we talked about here before. We talk about how we deliver the overall service revenue. But we will not look at ARPU just isolated.
I think that's a key component. We are a very converged player, so for us it's important that we are working with the total portfolio approach we're having, and in some period, that means that we are sacrificing a bit of growth in one specific product to make sure the totality is where we're growing, so I feel confident that the plan we're having of being really playing the convergence player, having less copper pressure, and having some specific verticals where we go after the growth, such as the mission-critical services, is the right strategy for us in Sweden.
Thank you. Then we have Stefan.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. Stefan Gauffin, DNB. I was told I was, I needed to stand up, otherwise it would be a strange echo. I just have a clarification on the gross savings of more than 2.3 billion on OpEx. How much of that will be visible in 2025? And then I have a question on the TV and media business. You did not extend the Champions League rights. Instead, Viaplay took over that right, and you have an ongoing content agreement with Viaplay, and it's a well-known secret that that right cost around SEK 1 billion. How much of the cost disappears from Telia, and what impact could this have on the service revenues from TV and media? Thank you.
Okay. Should I start with TV and media?
Go for it.
I can start with TV and media. It's right that we didn't extend or renew the contract with UEFA Champions League. We have not been, I think, transparent with how much it cost, even though you're speculating one billion, so for us, it's important to have these content rights. We said immediately, we will be disciplined when it comes to content cost and also renew our, especially on international sport rights. We will not continue to do the game where we pay so much money for it, you know. It has to be realistic, and it needs to be profitable for us, so in that case, we have today an agreement with Viaplay. We expect them to deliver, which they are, in our services.
So this will be in our normal model with which we have with Viaplay, so no extra included there. So that is important case to say. We will continue. I mean, sport rights will be important for TV and media, and we will continue to be open-minded to see for international sport rights, but we will be disciplined when it comes to cost. Because we have seen what happened in market with Viaplay, with also our performance in TV and media, also with the increased cost. We cannot live with them. It's too expensive.
A small part for you based in Sweden, you know, we have a very good sport package now with Champions League included and all Premier League matches. That is not the case for all in the market.
I thought you liked Italian football, Anders.
Well, that-
That's included as well.
Yeah, I'll do it. So, and then on the at least 2.6, as we had explained, subject to union c- conversations, of course, we're executing this at pace. Hopefully, get it done by the beginning of December, which means that, you know, the full run rate will impact thereafter. Some questions in the back there, right in front of the cameras-
Yes, I think we have one first here.
But there's no microphone come there.
Yes, Oscar. Yeah.
All right. Oscar Rönnkvist from ABG. So my question would be just a follow-up on the cost reductions. So you've taken out around 1,000 in headcount per year. You've had around, I think, SEK 1 billion in restructuring. So when you've made this sharp cut of 3,000 employees, how will the underlying cost reduction plan going forward? So let's say in 2026 and 2027, can we still expect around SEK 1 billion in restructuring, or should that fade as the sharp cuts have been made now in 2024?
Take it.
Yeah, yeah. So we're not guiding at the moment for what restructuring cost will look like going forward. We have said that the at least 2.6 takes a restructuring charge of about SEK 1.4 billion. So that's what you should take for this for this program. Then, you know, as we move ahead, so I would say somewhere in 2025, we'll give you a better sense of what the building blocks are after that, things like interest rate, tax, et cetera. Yeah.
Okay, Jacob.
Thanks. Thanks for taking the question. I had a question on your cash returns. A two-part question, actually. So firstly, you're guiding for the dividend to be covered next year and then grow more than 25% into 2027. So I guess the question is, why are you only guiding for a low-mid single digit growth rate? Because that would presumably imply a falling payout ratio. So that's the first question. And then the second question is, you've obviously alluded to the potential for some disposals and returning excess cash to shareholders, and I just want to understand a little bit better what is the mechanism you're looking to do that with. In the past, because your dividend was uncovered, you were, to some extent, reliant on asset disposals to fund your ordinary dividend.
Now that your dividend will be covered, is the idea that you would grow the ordinary faster, or is the idea that you would do special cash returns, like buybacks or dividends, if you were to make disposals? That's it.
You wanna join me, Mika?
Take it.
Yeah. So we're quite happy with the guidance that we've given. So from eight to ten is the ambition, and the ambition was, as Patrik said in his opening comment, and as well instructed, we wanna cover the dividend, right? That's the first starting point. Then, when it comes to our dividend policy, that is an existing dividend policy that is there every year, a proposal goes to the AGM for a proposal. There's a clear backing order that the company historically has had, which is, "Let's cover the dividend." And then from that, as I said, during the analyst presentation, we will try to grow that, and there is a dividend policy for that. What happens beyond that, that's a conversation for a later stage.
If I can just pick up on that, I mean, you're saying you want to return all excess cash to shareholders. Your dividend policy suggests paying out less than all the cash, and that's... And obviously then, as you grow the EBITDA, if anything, you could recap and pay even more than your cash flow. So what I'm trying to understand is, why aren't you going for a more aggressive dividend policy?
Yeah, we're very comfortable with the policy that we currently have. First, let's go and execute this plan. Let's deliver the around SEK 8 billion. Let's then get to the at least SEK 10 billion. Let's cover our dividend first, and I think from that, the moment we've done that, and it's sustainably covered, we can have a conversation on what happens next.
And I think that is an important statement. You know, our focus now is to reach the level where we cover the dividend. Then, when we take the next steps, next levels, of course, we will have a discussion with the board how to handle that, but let's now focus on delivering on the short term now in 2025. Great. Many good questions. So there's at least one more here from Felix. Yeah, there we go.
Hi, Felix Henriksson, Nordea. Thanks for taking my question. Just a couple of clarifying ones on the EBITDA growth drivers. Firstly, on TV media, you mentioned the long-term target of 1 billion SEK, and that you would be close to that already in 2025, which, I guess represents a small implicit upgrade to the previous communication of 600 million SEK. So just a clarification there. And then you also mentioned, potential for margin expansion in Finland and Lithuania. So could you just elaborate a bit more on that, especially in terms of Finland, where you're looking to also improve the market share? Thanks.
Mathias, do you want to reply on the EBITDA for next year?
I can do that.
Yes.
Use the mic.
Yes. I will ask Mathias here, heading our TV media business, to reply on the question.
As I'm sure all of you know, TV media, our company, TV media, as an industry, has been going through some pretty rough times lately. We're fortunate; two years ago, we made some important decisions in this company by the board, by the management, which has really put us in a good position. We're transforming the business from being a linear business to becoming a digital streaming business. We've had addressed a very difficult situation with sports rights, sports costs, and we have addressed a long-term underperformance in our Finnish business. When you do stuff like that, you do a lot of initiatives, and eventually, you'll have the outcome. Where we are right now, and as Patrik has alluded to, we've done a lot of stuff. We've changed everything.
We've addressed our cost base, and much about everything comes out a bit better than we hoped for. So we are on a good trajectory, and I leave the financials for the big boss on the stage, but we have a very good trajectory based on the changes we've made, and those takes us to a better place in twenty twenty-five.
Yeah, and to add to Mathias as well, I mean, the transformation from traditional linear TV to digital revenues is really important, that we mitigate the lower levels in linear TV, and which we are doing at the moment, which is very, very good. At the same time, we have been able to take out cost, so getting a much more cost-efficient operation, and that is what we see, and that is why we will be closer to a billion, very close to a billion next year.
So maybe on the margin expansion question, if you think about what ultimately gets you to that 4% EBITDA growth, it is not just a cost-out exercise, clearly. It is also working very closely with them in the last couple of months on an ambitious plan. And, you know, in the deep dive, you heard from Anders how, you know, he creates this smiley face from declining to growing and even accelerating EBITDA growth. The same is true for the other markets, right? So we have agreed a very clear plan where in the various markets, depending on what their position is, to increase market share, but also to expand their margin. We obviously have clearly not chosen to share that for the obvious reason. There's enough, you know, targets out there already, so we're not... But that's the clear mission that we have.
Great. Many great questions, so we are happy to run a little bit over time. Let's take one more there on the third row.
All right. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Perfect. Yeah, Eric Lunablue Stahl from SEB. So, one question to you, Eric. You mentioned a couple of assets in your portfolio that you're looking to perhaps monetize in the coming years. One of these is Telia Towers, where you own 51%. I mean, is it fair to say that you would be looking to divest further out of this asset, and are you also looking at fiber assets? Thank you.
So no and no, I would say. What we're happy with is to look at everything and see where the best return is. I talked about the ownership levels, et cetera, and what we've publicly said is rooftops is one of those things that we are thinking about. Again, yet to be determined if that's the case. You know, us playing back on STV Media, et cetera, again, not for us to comment on, because it is part of the family. So yeah, and then the one which is obviously very public, which is what we're executing now, actually, as we speak, is the sale of the real estate related to the old copper network, and those are the ones. The other ones are not happening at the moment.
Thank you. Thank you, Eric, and Patrick, and Anders, and thanks for all the good questions. We are nearing the end of this webcasted Q&A session. We hope to continue to this dialogue in the next few quarters, and we have our Q3 earnings on the twenty-fourth of October, so tune in for that. But for the online audience, we say goodbye here from the Telia headquarters in Solna.