Earnings Call: Q1 2021

Apr 29, 2021

Everyone, and a warm welcome to you all to this earnings call for Tobey for the Q1 of 2021. Today, in this session, we will start by talking about our progress in the Q1 specifically, but we will be a Bit quicker than usual on that because, of course, after that, we want to take some time to present The big and exciting news from this morning that we are planning the spin off and subsequent public listing of Tobii Dynavox, we want to make sure that we have some time to describe that to you as well. Towards the end of our session, we will have Time for questions and answers, and we've actually extended that in time to make sure that there is ample opportunity for you to ask questions, both around the quarter, of course, but also specifically on the announcement around the spin off. In this forum, the way we're doing this session today, all of you will be able to ask any questions through the chat window. You can do that at any time through the presentation or later when we are at the Q and A session. If you want to ask a question verbally, You can contact irtobi.com even now during the meeting, and we can invite you to ask questions verbally in the meeting. So that is also available as an option. Mike Deliana, our CFO, is also here today to share some of the details of the quarter together with me with you. So let us start with a summary of the Q1. And we report organic growth and a significant improvement of the operating results in the quarter. And we do this despite the fact that we continue to see strong headwinds from the pandemic also now in the Q1. On top of the headwinds from the pandemic, we also had an early negative effect from the supply chain disruptions that we have announced a couple of weeks ago, specifically in Tobii Dynavox. But again, despite this, we delivered on an organic growth of 1% in the quarter. We do see that the gradual recovery from the pandemic is continuing, and we saw a Clear trend of increased sales activity across all of the different parts of our business. We saw very different Patterns in different geographies, so that's very clear and that correlates quite closely with how we see the pandemic developing and unfolding in different parts of the world. In addition to growing traction in day to day sales, we also closed half a dozen design wins and several new products. We delivered a significantly improved operating result with only a small loss of SEK9 1,000,000. And this means that we are on good track towards reaching our goal of profitability for Tobi Group for the full year of 2021. But as mentioned, before we get into the big announcement of today, let's start by going into a little bit more detail On the business, and as usual, let us start with Tobii Dynavox. Tobii Dynavox Continued to be significantly impacted by the pandemic since restrictions in society continue to make it difficult both for us as well as for others in the ecosystem to really serve our end users effectively with assistive technology for communication. Given that we are still in the pandemic and seeing these effects, the comparison to the Q1 last year is really tough because Q1 last year for Tobii Dynavox was before we saw any impact of the pandemic. On top of that, As mentioned, we had early impact of the supply disruptions that we have announced. We have Challenges in the supply chain right now with our flagship product in Tobii DynaMox, the I Series. This is similar to many other companies that are also facing challenges with the semiconductor components in the current climate. To overcome this, we have already found alternative sourcing routes, and we're also making some smaller redesign to the I Series product. And this comes with a bit of lead time, but we are confident that we will be back in full production capacity towards the end of the second quarter. But this does mean that we will see some revenue essentially being postponed a little bit from the Q1 and specifically from the Q2 into the Q3 of this year. That we expect to be in the range of SEK 40,000,000 to SEK 80,000,000 in terms of this postponement effect. We did see a little bit of that already towards the past the last few weeks of the Q1. One reason that we're confident that this is a postponement effect and we expect to get most of this back is that we ended the Q1 with an exceptionally high sales pipeline for Tobii Dynavox. So That makes us optimistic for the actual traction in the sales. It's interesting to note that we also continue to see a positive trend, long term trend for reimbursement, Specifically for assisted technology for communication, in the Q1, President Biden signed a new law, which makes it easier for Individuals with ALS to obtain access to communication devices faster. So Magdalena, Over to you and some of the financials for TOBI DYNAVOX. Thank you, Henrik, and hi, everyone. Yes. As Henrik already mentioned, Tobii Dynavox revenue was negatively affected by both the pandemic and the supply chain disruptions. Revenue declined 6% organically in this first quarter. We can conclude that around 7 The decline was due to the supply chain disruptions. So without these, organic revenue would have grown by about 1% despite the pandemic headwinds. Gross margin was 68%, in line with last year's Quarter and costs were in line with last year except for salary increases, leaving us with an EBIT of 13% compared to last year's 15%. And in conclusion, we would like to caution here, if you only add back incremental gross profits on the missing revenue from supply chain issues, You would arrive at a profit of around 19%. This is, however, not a fair description of the underlying trend since we also have tailwinds from translation FX And from a higher pace of capitalization compared to amortization warranty. So if we adjust both quarters for this And for the supply chain disruption within this quarter, we would have seen a positive EBIT margin trend of around 1 to 2 percentage points. Back to you, Henrik. Thank you, Magdalena. So let us turn our eyes to Tobii Pro. And revenue grew at a good pace in Tobii Pro in the quarter, but we still see that also Tobii Pro's business is Still clearly impacted by the pandemic. The regional differences are very large for Tobii Pro in this impact. And the regional differences correlate very closely to restrictions in society from the pandemic. Asia showed a very strong year on year growth for Tobii Pro, in particular in Japan. And even though if we look at China, even though China sales for Tobii Pro in China grew significantly over the Q1 last year, We're still actually far from a normalized level in China because in China actually, universities were still closed for about 1.5 months of the Q1, this was due to a bit of a second wave effect in China and that Chinese government took actions to imposed restrictions to make sure that, that did not catch on. The U. S. Continued to lag severely in terms of sales For Tobii Pro and also Europe remained slow. So despite this rather mixed picture, Tobii Pro in totality grew revenue organically 13% compared to last year. These regional differences and the fact that they correlate to the pandemic situation makes us Quite optimistic about the significant growth opportunity once more regions come out of the effects from the pandemic. In the Q1, Tobii Pro also launched a new solution for reading analytics in our Tobii Pro Lab software. Eye tracking is a very powerful tool to understand reading and to use this to enhance both Assessment and the learning of reading skills. And we see opportunities in this education and reading space, both our Tobii Pro as well as in our Tobii Tech business. With that, Magdalena, over to you and some more financials. Yes. Again, as Henrik mentioned, TobiPro had an organic revenue growth of 13% organically, yes. Gross margin was up 3 percentage points, mainly related to economies of scale since part of the cost of goods sold are fixed. The operating costs were organically 3% lower than Q1 last year, which is an effect of continued good cost control, But also a combination with still not being able to travel and meet customers. The EBIT margin was 2% compared to losses 1%. And note that's a good the discrepancy between the good revenue growth and the improved gross margin, but only modest EBIT growth is explained by a higher R and D amortization and lower R and D capitalization in this quarter compared to Q1 last year. This means that the Cash flow metrics for Tobii Pro improved significantly more than the EBIT margin reflects. Back to you, Henrik. So let's cover TobiTeq briefly as well. So In the Q1, we saw a good trend in terms of increasing sales activity and Engagements in customer projects. During large parts of last year in 2020, TobiTeq also saw a lower activity level due to the pandemic, and TobiTeq has quite long sales cycles. So the impact of that lower activity level is something that we see in revenue numbers, etcetera, also still now in the first quarter of this year. But in this quarter, we saw the activity level clearly picking up. We have a good flow of New design wins coming in. We are engaging in several new projects that aim at future design wins And business volumes are starting to pick up for several of our customers, our OEM customers, where we have existing design wins already. In total, we landed 6 new design wins in the Q1, including 2 design wins in the personal computing space and 4 wins for different medical applications. So that's great. We continue to see Good trends in the VR market, both overall in the VR market as well as for eye tracking continuing to gain traction as a key technology within the VR ecosystem. In the during the quarter, and we mentioned this in our previous earnings Already, we announced a research collaboration with Valve and OpenBCI around eye tracking and VR. Worth mentioning is also that our PC gaming peripheral continues to show very strong year on year growth. Revenue for our gaming peripheral roughly doubled in the Q1 compared to the same period last year. We also launched our new TOBI Horizon offering, which is essentially our TOBI Aware offering, but Tuned specifically to gaming. So this is our low cost solution for attention computing, but that also marries it together with Many of the investments we've done over the past years in the gaming space. And we also announced Lenovo as our first customers to implement Tobii Horizon and their flagship Lenovo Legion Gaming PCs. So a quick I think with that, Magdalena, your turn again on financials for TobiK and then for the group. Yes. Looking at TobiTech, the revenue declined organically with 1% during the Q1. The Potempic was still affecting negatively. Internal sales declined 14% organically, mainly due to the supply chain disruptions experienced within Tobii Dynavox. So the external revenue grew with 4% organically, where we saw the strongest development within the XR segment as well as within the business of consumer sales for our gaming peripheral. Gross margin came in at 59%, 5 percentage points lower than last year due to the different proportions of revenue mix between the years. The costs were organically 24% lower than Q1 2020. This was achieved through the cost reduction measures implemented during 2020. The operating loss continued to develop in the right direction, going from minus SEK61 1,000,000 to in Q1 2020 to minus SEK40 1,000,000 in this quarter, which is an improvement with SEK21 1,000,000 between the quarters and thus In the right direction. And then if we take the next page to look at the group. The group had an organic revenue growth of 1% in the quarter. This growth was achieved despite the supply chain disruption in Despite the pandemic's continued negative effect in all business units, for the group, the supply chain issues had a 5 percentage point negative impact Revenue. Gross margin came out on the same level as last year, 71%. Cost control continued, and we lowered our operating expenses with 9% organically versus Q1 2020. This was achieved through the cost reduction measures initiated during last year in combination with the pandemic's dampening effect on travel and sales activities. Tobi's EBIT for this quarter was minus SEK9 1,000,000, which was an improvement with SEK14 1,000,000 compared to last year. This Q1 is thus another good step in the direction to deliver profitability for the whole year of 2021. Last quarter, we introduced the measure EBITDLS Capitalized R and D, which you see here. This is a KPI that we work with internally. It is a measure that's A bit closer or it's closer to cash flow than EBIT. And it is independent of the ratio of R and D capitalization and amortization Since it is the equivalent of seeing R and D costs as ongoing operating expenditures rather than CapEx investments. As you can see in the chart, we are now very happy to deliver 2 consecutive quarters with a positive EBITDA less capitalized R and D. We are moving in the right direction. And then we have our last slide on the financials, Looking at the cash flow after continuous investments, which ended out on minus SEK4 1,000,000. This was an improvement with SEK8 1,000,000 versus last year, thanks to improved operating result in combination with lower investments and less Negative effect from change in working capital. Cash at hand was SEK422 1,000,000. Net debt was SEK187 1,000,000 or if we exclude IFRS 16 leases, it was SEK42 1,000,000. And the IFRS 16 debt grew this quarter since we have set a new lease agreement for a headquarter office in Dandenrij. Our bond will expire in February 2022 and is thus now reclassified as being short term financing. We have a well established plan for how to secure refinancing, and we'll come back to that when everything is in place. And with that, I leave it back to you, Henrik. Thanks, Magdalena. So If we again summarize the Q1, we're happy that in the Q1, we delivered organic revenue growth and clearly improved operating result despite the continued headwinds from the pandemic and despite the early effects from the supply chain disruptions. We continue to see gradual recovery from the pandemic and increasing sales activity across all of our businesses, so that's great. The underlying momentum is good. We have a solid financial position with plenty of cash in the bank and a very low net debt. We are optimistic about the outlook for the year based on both of this improving sales activity in all of our divisions And also this clear pattern where we see actual sales revenue correlating very closely to how different regions coming out of restrictions from the pandemic. Of course, we still have to be mindful that we expect the supply chain disruptions in Tobii Dynamics So we have an impact of deferring some revenue from the second to the third quarter, so we need to keep that in mind. But all in all, we are definitely on track to deliver on our target for positive earning operating result for the full year of 2021. So that concludes sort of the first part of today's call and specifically the presentation around the Q1. And with that, we shift over the focus to our biggest news of today, which is the natural and the big next step in Tobi's evolution. As we announced this morning, we are currently conducting a review of Tobii Group's structure, and we have a clear intent to Spin off, Tobii Dynavox and publicly list Tobii Dynavox on nastek.com. With this, we will create 2 fully independent companies, both of them very clear world leaders in their respective domains. A new Tobii, which continues to be the world leader in eye tracking technology and solutions and a standalone Tobii Dynavox continuing to be the world leader in assistive technology for communication. The rationale for doing this is clear and strong. And Again, to a large extent, this is a very natural progression of a path that we're on for a long time already. As our businesses have grown and grown and evolved and matured, Torbi Dynavox has also become increasingly autonomous and separate from the other parts of Tobii to the point that today we actually see very low synergies between Tobii Dynavox and the rest of Tobii. We do, however, see significant and actually growing synergies and benefits of working closely together between the Tobii Pro and the Tobii Tech parts of the business. And therefore, there is a strong rationale for keeping these two parts together. By creating 2 separate companies, we will be able to maximize the long term Potential and opportunity for growth for both of these two companies, both for Tobii Dynavox and for Tobii. This will enable us to unleash their full power and even more create truly empowered teams, become even more agile as organizations, create an increased much Clearer focus for both of these companies enable us to come even closer to our customers and the market and just generally reducing complexity overall in the organizations. And I'm personally, I'm very confident that this will drive even stronger growth, even stronger long term success and of course, with that, drive significant shareholder value for both. Another strong benefit of doing this is that it forms 2 very clear cut investment opportunities. And I truly believe that this will make it clearer and easier to really in-depth understand both Tobii Dynavox and Tobi and make it easier for you as investors to appreciate both of these companies in their own rights. Based on good performance in the past several years and strong revenue growth In combination, of course, with a strong outlook for the future, both parts are now ready to take this step, where we can be confident that both Tobii Dynavox and Tobii will have what it truly takes to succeed as stand alone companies. So let us take a little bit of time to talk briefly about both of these companies, and I have invited also also stand alone. So Fredrik, do you want to share some thoughts on Tobi Dynavox with us? Sure. Hi, everyone. Good morning. I am, for those of you who don't know me, Fredrik Rubin then. I am the CEO of Tobi Dinerworks. This is a position I have held for the past 7 years. My background prior to that was predominantly from the software space, where I also was the CEO, also in a publicly listed setting. TOBI DINAVOX is the undisputed world leader in assistive technology for communication. And in essence, that means that we provide a rich Portfolio of products and services to help people with disabilities to communicate. We The product that Tobi Danube has are life changing in such a fundamental way. We provide them not only our users with life But also the people around them, the families, the caregivers in that setting. And this is, of course, a quite unique proposition we have to the market. And I think we can't overestimate the power of independence of being a person who is able to learn, interact, work And be a part of society, thanks to the products and solutions that Tobi Dynavox does. Our products Coming in 2 main scenarios, either because of a condition that you have gained later in life, something has happened to you later in life Or we also have the segment of users where you had a condition that came to you at birth. So examples of those conditions could be ALS, spangle cord injuries, MS, but also conditions such as autism, Down syndrome, aphasia, cerebral palsy and many, many more. And as you can imagine, we have a highly mission driven organization of some 500 fantastic colleagues of mine, But yet, we're actually extremely performance oriented in doing that. This is a team that really Lives by the values and in our mission, as you can see on the screen, to empower people with disabilities to do what they once did or never thought possible. We're also a company that's been growing steadily over the years, both organically and through acquisitions, and we currently have a revenue of just under SEK1 1,000,000,000 at a healthy profit margin. The market in which Tobii Dynavox operates is highly or even hugely underserved. Unlike other assistive technologies such as wheelchairs or hearing aids, where there is a solid reimbursement system in most markets, The market that we operate in has an extremely bad reimbursement system in most markets. That includes markets such as France, the U. K. Or even Finland. It is in fact estimated that less than 2% of the users that every year are diagnosed with a condition that warrants our communication devices are being served. The rest are left silent. So Tobii Dynavox don't only have the products, we also have the infrastructure and the expertise to counter that and To basically help these users to come back in communicating. We also see that there are other large societal factors that works in our favor. As I'm sure everybody knows, the topic of inclusion, both in society at large and in workplaces, is definitely high up on the agenda for most. And also the Improved health care systems in most markets works in our favor. Tobii Dynavox as well as our industry peers also Puts huge efforts into explaining, educating not only the professionals and the caregivers and the prescribers in our industry, But also the policymakers and the legislators to make sure that we have a difference. So we have a solid underlying opportunity for a long term Steady growth of this industry and our business as a whole. If you look a little bit on our offering in TOBI DYNAMVOX As a company, we have a set of products that has been built up over decades. It's both hardware and software, And it's clearly leading and this in combination with the expertise we have in the medical space as well as in the clinical space. But not only do we do the products, we also take an active part in the reimbursement processing to making sure that The process from identifying that you need a device until you actually get the device is something we take as a part of our responsibility, too. We're currently available with our products in over 70 countries. That is done in some countries where we have our own staff, some of the key markets, but also through a network of almost 100 distributors, resellers and partners. The 500 or so employees that we have in my organization spans from everything from the full research and development, finance and supporting functions. But of course, we have all these specialists, whether they're clinical specialists or whether they're specialists that actually does the processing of reimbursement in those markets. We also collaborate closely with tens of thousands of prescribers and professionals out there, both helping them to educate in functionality and best practices, but also, of course, to ultimately give success to some of our users. So with that said and almost a 40% world market share, Tobii Dynavox, if you put the perspective as an investment, we are extremely established in what do both when it comes to our products that are truly life changing. They have revolutionary benefits to most of our users, but also the people around these users, which is Cannot be underestimated. It's a significantly underpenetrated market, and it's also non cyclical, which, of course, bodes well for a long term sustainable growth in our business. TOBI DYNAVOX is truly the only global player in this space. We're we have the most comprehensive offering, and it's available in the most everywhere, more or less. We also have not just the products and the competence, we also have an unmatched Access to the reimbursement is such a super important part of getting a device. Our offering is compliant with medical standards. We have the clinical expertise. And we are right now coming out of a period of significant product investment focus. So we stand really strong and shifting gears right now to sales expansion and margin expansion, which I think we're Well positioned for it to do both organically and through M and A. So that's Tobeydan of Oxaliplans. Great. Thank you, Frederic. Let's have a quick look At Tobi as well or the new Tobi, and of course, Tobi also after this split We'll continue to be the undisputed global leader in eye tracking technology and solutions. Tobii's mission statement stays intact to improve the world with technology that understands human attention and intent. Eye tracking, as we know, is a very powerful enabling technology, which brings value to many types of devices for many different applications and across a broad range of different industries. And Tobi addresses a broad range of markets of which many of these have tremendous opportunity and potential for growth and long term value creation. In most of these use cases, eye tracking is still early on the adoption curve, But the technology is today much closer to large scale commercialization than they were only a few years ago. As part of the review of the group's overall structure, We have decided to merge our current Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech business units together. Between these two businesses, we see significant synergies and opportunities to leverage the combined strengths. As I mentioned before, over time, we've actually seen these two businesses, Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech, grow closer and closer together. And today, we see a significant overlap in customers and the customer journeys. We see overlap and potential And in leveraging combined marketing, in core technology development, in leveraging the product portfolios And of course, also see opportunities for economies of scales and leveraging these and internal efficiencies by working much closer between the Tobii Pro and the Tobii Tech divisions. If we end up Completing the intended spin off, then I personally plan to hand over the CEO role to 2 New, very capable CEOs. So not just one, but 2 new CEOs, Fredrik on the one side for Tobii DynaHawks and Anand Srivatsa for the new Tobi. Anand is today the division CEO of Tobi Tech since about one and a half years back. And Anand comes with a wealth of experience from the high-tech industry, mainly from very senior roles at Intel. And Anand has, in a short time at Tobi, proven to be an amazingly good and appreciated both leader and strategist and colleague. I am absolutely convinced that Anand is going to be an awesome CEO of this new Tobi once we have completed the separation. So if we take a quick look at TOBI also after the separation as And investment opportunity, of course, eye tracking provides strong value across this very wide portfolio of different applications, devices, industries. It has a significant long term Volume potential in the range of 1,000,000,000 units per year, making this a very attractive and viable industry. Several of these are close to large scale commercialization today. TOBI is very firmly established as the global market Leader for eye tracking technology and solutions, it is also very clearly the technology leader in this space, both when it comes to know how, product solutions and IP. Taken together, If we summarize Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech, over the 5 year period, if we look before the pandemic, The period 2014 to 2019, these two businesses together grew revenue on average by more than 20% per year. And we expect, of course, Tobii to continue going forward with very rapid revenue growth as we as eye tracking proliferates deeper and deeper into several of these very exciting growth markets. Worth mentioning further is that the gross margins are quite high in Tobi and also that Further revenue growth comes with a low need for incremental OpEx growth and that provides A very strong leverage all the way down to the bottom line on any additional revenue growth that we expect over the coming several years. We do look forward to presenting this new Tobii to you in more detail, and we plan to organize Capital Markets Day is actually both for TOBI as well as for TOBI DYANAVOX later in the fall as a part of this process to provide you with more information. Let's look briefly at the time line. So super high level, we are obviously in the middle of Preparations, we are conducting this review of the group structure right now. We are announcing that today publicly. But of course, there is a lot of work still to be done here in terms of planning and actual preparations for this, and that will take us most part of this year. We do plan to update you on the progress with this also in our earnings call for the Q2. And as mentioned, we plan to have The market stays both for Tobii Dynavox and for Tobii during the fall. A note, perhaps obvious, is that there is, of course, no guarantee that we this decision will ultimately be taken to pursue a Lexasia distribution and subsequent listing of Tobii Dynavox, even though it, of course, is a clear plan. So A little bit of a final comment on this. Personally, I am really, really excited about this step. As you know, I believe tremendously much in the opportunity and the potential of both of these businesses. My personal ambition is even as I hand off the CEO role to Frederic and Anand is to stay deeply engaged In both Tobi Dynavox as well as in Tobi, my ambition is to be on the Board of both companies as well as to continue in an operational role In Tobi also after the separation. But of course, I remain also as the Group CEO until the separation is complete at the end of this year. I truly believe that this step will unleash even more greatness and really unleash the full power of both Tobii Dynavox And Tobi, we have been building Tobi for some time already. It's 20 years ago that we started Tobi in a garage and it has been growing and growing and growing ever since. But Still, our journey has just begun. And in many ways, I think this announcement today and this step of creating 2 world leading successful companies marks the start of the next amazing and exciting chapter of the Tobis, both Tobii and Tobii Dynavox. So with that, that was what we wanted to cover in presentation form today, but of course, we're keen to hear So let's switch into Q and A mode. Joining us for this is also Henrik Mawby, Head of IR in Tobey. And as we mentioned before, we're happy to take questions both through the chat and potentially also if we have some verbal questions And with folks in light of that, Henrik? Absolutely. Thank you, Henrik. So analysts, gentle reminder, if you wish to speak, Give us a ping, and we will unmute you and give you the work. Otherwise, I will start While waiting for that, you can use the chat or the Q and A to ask for the word. I will start with some questions that we've already received through the chat. And the first one being, can you, Henrik, give an updated overview of Tobi's road map The big eye tracking categories like XR headsets, computers, vehicles, phones, etcetera, and when do you think they will really start to be valuable To Tobi. That is a large comprehensive question. So I'll try to address parts of it at least. So First of all, if we look at the some of the core segments that we are addressing specifically in Tobi Tech, which this question relates to. We have VR, we have PC market, we have exciting applications in the medical space, education space. These are the areas where Tobii Tech is currently mainly focused and where we are doing proactive investments both in core technology and market creation. In VR, we see significant traction for eye tracking, and we have over the past 2 years, We've seen eye tracking become well established on the enterprise side of the market with major headset manufacturers like HTC, Pico, HP, launching Doctor headsets targeting the enterprise customers with Tobii Eye Tracking Incorporated. We See a rapid proliferation of eye tracking as a technology through the VR ecosystem, and we expect This will also start hitting into the consumer devices of the VR market over the next 1 to 3 years. So VR is definitely a market where eye tracking will rapidly become reach high adoption, high penetration over the near future. And Tobi is well positioned to be a significant player and supplier of eye tracking technology in this. Of course, The VR market as a whole is also seeing growth and is expected to grow rapidly over the past several years. This has been Further accelerated even by the pandemic and humans interacting in virtual ways even deeper. But VR is growing, both enterprise consumer, eye tracking is coming big time, Tobii is there. If we look at the PC space, we believe that eye tracking has a significant role to play in the PC market as well. We have multiple engagements with major PC manufacturers. We also have our own product with our gaming peripheral that we sell directly to consumers. We worked tightly with game studios for game development and other types of application partners also outside of gaming. Where we see significant traction in the PC space right now is for our gaming peripheral, which as I mentioned, grows at very rapid pace currently. We also see significant interest for our lower cost offerings for attention computing for the PC market with Tobii Aware, Tobii Horizon. We do expect the PC market though to take more time to reach really high adoption rates. It's not as fast moving as the VR space. And Frankly, in VR, eye tracking provides very, very fundamental values for optimizing graphics and device efficiency that We expect drives the adoption there faster. So PISA will come, but it will also likely take be more of a gradual growth over a longer period of time. We have now dozens of design wins in the medical and education space. These are vertical markets where we see Large margin opportunities, and we work together with really innovative companies that are developing new diagnostics or treatments or interaction methods in surgical environments, etcetera, where eye tracking plays a crucial role in these products. We're working both with small start ups and larger established companies in the medical space, but common for all of them is actually many of these are really exciting products and product It is creating in themselves new niches, new markets through innovation powered by eye tracking. Most of these are still early stage. Several of them are in the market with products, but we definitely see significant opportunity for these Products and for us providing our core eye tracking technology with high margin into many of these. So those are the three areas that we are focusing mostly on proactively. Then, of course, beyond that, we see additional opportunities in other areas as well, but that is currently less of a focus area for Tobey today. Thanks for that. And Danie Juhlberg, I see you want to ask Daniel, I don't know if you're on the line and if you can hear Okay. I'll move on and ask some other questions until we get Daniel on the line again. What is your view on being acquired by a synergistic tech giant like Facebook or Google? Clearly, That would accelerate the adoption of your incredible technology and your valuation would no doubt be very high. It's a good question, I think. Yes. That's not entirely up to me To make to take that decision as such, no. But I mean, I think that Tobi actually is of the size that we are really well equipped to continue to evolve and grow our world leading position in eye tracking also as a stand alone company. We have the sort of size of engineering capabilities. We have the brand recognition. We are the world leader in this space. And I think we really can grow tremendously as eye tracking proliferates across all of these different markets and opportunities. That said, of course, there could be other constellations, other situations, other opportunities that can emerge. Some of those potentially maybe could accelerate this even Further and of course, if such opportunities arise, then of course, it's definitely the job of the Board of Directors of Tobi To take those into consideration and with a mind to the long term best interest of Tobi shareholders and other key stakeholders, that could also be a great situation. And on that note, let's continue on the strategic trajectory here. Does The split also opened up opportunities for both new companies and for more strategic partnership. Partnership, I'm not sure about the formulation here, but for both new companies and for more strategic partnerships. I'm a little bit unsure what is Meant by the question, maybe focus on new strategic partnerships. I think that might Impossible to answer, while the person asking the question maybe can reformulate what you mean by new companies. So I think that one thing that's quite clear is, as Frederic mentioned, there is there are some really Exciting opportunities to have a forward leaning agenda when it comes to both sales and market expansion in Tobii Dynavox. Part of this is organic, but part of this is also through acquisitions as well as deep partnerships with companies in this space. And I do think that this split for Tobii Dynavox to be a stand alone Company does actually open up for some additional possibilities and tools to actually accelerate and expand those opportunities. I don't know if you want to answer that, Frederic. Yes. I can add to that. If you think about just on the partnership side, the announcement that we made a couple of months ago together with Google kind of solidifies our role. We are the We're a leader in assistive technology for communication, which means that features such as, in this case, Google Home fits really well into Someone like Google because we are the specialists in what they do, and they are, of course, the specialists in what they do. And when it comes to Acquisitions or other opportunities for us to grow in an inorganic way grow our business faster. It is, as I mentioned before, we have a fantastic platform to stand on from products, relationships and infrastructure. But of course, we could accelerate that both organically by simply growing our own team, but also by through acquisitions, Improve our presence in specific markets, in specific segments. So I think we have to summarize, partnerships in the true meaning of partnerships, Fantastic opportunity, which again is proven by the likes of Google as well as slightly more Concrete M and A activities which will strengthen our current platform. I hope that answered the question to some degree. I think it does. Okay. One more question here. Could you provide any guidance on the capital Sure. For Tobii Dynavox and the new Tobii, given Dynavox is more mature and cash generative than pro and tech, Do you ambition that the separation leaving new Tobi with a strong balance sheet to support the investment necessary for its high growth trajectory? This is a great question. We are still in the preparation and planning phase for this split. And one thing that, of course, is going to be an important part of these preparations is to do detailed planning around the capital structure, both for Tobi Dynavox as well as for the new Tobi. Today, Tobi Group as a whole, we have a strong financial position with plenty of cash in the bank and very low net debt. And we are confident that we have several tools at our disposal to ensure that we create optimal capital In both of these companies, that is exactly as you say, that will be important. Obviously, Tobii Dynavox has a strong Cash generation capacity, Tobi and sort of the new Tobi We'll also, of course, need to have a solid financial position to support exactly as you said in the question, the continued Strong revenue growth and expansion of Tobi going forward as well. So we will come back with more details on this during the fall. And let's try with Daniel Juulberg again. You should be able to unmute by pressing star 6. That goes for the rest of you as well, if you called in using a cell phone or phone. Looks like he's not on the call, perhaps. Okay. Sorry about that. I'll just continue with more questions from the web then. How will the spin off of Tobi Dynavox affect the existing shareholders in terms of receiving new shares in Dynavox versus new Tobi? So the plan is to do this split and spin off according to the rules of Lexasia. And that essentially means that we would distribute The shares of Tobi Dynavox to Tobi's existing shareholders in proportion to the ownership current ownership in Tobi. So existing shareholders of TOBI would receive for free new shares in TOBI Dynavox. And then after that, we would publicly list TOBI Dynavox. So as a shareholder of TOBI, you would end up keeping your share in TOBI and receiving new shares in TOBI Dynavox. So once the split is complete, day 1 of trading, you would be shareholder of both companies. And Frederik, what are you most excited about with the split? How does this make your future brighter Or how does this make the future for Tobi Dynamics brighter? Yes. So like we I tried to explain also previously, Tobi Danworks currently stands on very solid grounds. We are fundamentally growing. We have a very solid both product platform and infrastructure. But of course, what this enables me to do is to further accelerate the expansion of what we do. And that is, in practice, meant that we will spend more Effort, energy, focus on expanding sales and marketing, creating awareness, educating the world, making our products Better and more available out there. That is really what the shift that we're going to, and that's why this is not necessarily related to this Project, it's actually the reason why the timing is partly really good right now because this is the position we have reached. And our solid performance through the pandemic kind of solidifies that we stand on extremely solid financial and operational grounds to do that. So full throttle ahead is probably a short summary of that. Good. Mikael Asian, you want to ask a question? Go ahead and unmute yourself, please. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Excellent. Yes. Interesting news today. And I had a question on the capital structure as well. Just a follow-up, Maybe a clarification. Do you think it's possible for Dynavox to have net debt EBITDA of around 2, 3 approximately? Or is that a bit too much? Any sort of initial thoughts would be great. I think it's a little bit too early to be maybe quite that specific, to be honest. We do need to come a little bit further in preparations. But obviously, Again, given the strong cash generation capacity of Tobii Dynavox as a business, if we believe that to be the right Strategy and capital structure going forward, it has the capacity to have a reasonably significant debt leverage on that type of business. So we definitely believe that there is opportunity and potential to use That is a tool as part of the optimal capital structure. Got it. And just curious about the Dynavox pipeline that you mentioned here in the report and during the call, that it's stronger than or unusually strong. Can you elaborate a bit on what does that mean? In total, difficult to know, Jerome. You are the expert, Eric? Yes. I mean, we have 2 parallel forces here right now. We have the pandemic, which, of course, has affected our ability to go out and sell and meet with our customers. We should remember that a lot of our customers are vulnerable per definition. So we have of course, we entered the pandemic being unsure how exactly do we translate that. And it has turned out that we're very capable of doing that. So we're still able to meet customers To fill up the pipeline. We also should remember that almost exactly a year ago, we stood there with a bright, shiny new product in our new eye series, which has continued to win significant approval rates out in the market. So this is kind of the platform we stand on. At the same time, we, as many other companies, are feeling the headwinds of the supply chain of certain components. Even though we have fairly low volumes, so we're not as exposed to high as a high volume semi technology company, We have, as we have explained experienced right now, but fairly temporary slowdown in our ability to deliver products. And with these two forces combining, we see that the need and the Underlying market need for our products, even during a pandemic, is super strong. We see the end of the pandemic, which will literally open up the world for a lot of our But hampered by the fact that we have been and will be for weeks unable to deliver certain parts of our portfolio, We can pretty much see that the underlying momentum and the need for our products is really high. It's actually way higher than we've ever seen before. And Since we have high confidence in that we will get supply back in due course, that will basically be simply a backlog effect on our books. So I feel confident in the longer term, thinking 2021 as a whole, But we will have headwind in the Q2 in our ability to deliver those products. Maybe one addition to that could be that Specifically in the Tobii Dynavox business, there is actually a in particular in the U. S, which is about 70% of sales, There is a particular and pretty lengthy reimbursement process that each of our solutions typically goes through in order for the end user To obtain funding from the insurance company. That process typically takes anywhere from 1 to 4 months, which means that We, of course that's for us sort of the sales pipeline as we see this building up through the insurance pipeline. And that The size simply of cases sitting in that insurance pipeline was exceptionally high at the end of the Q1. And of course, the reason why it's still in the pipeline is because of some of these supply chain challenges, we're simply not able to ship them even though the reimbursement process is essentially done. And then we sometimes refer to as the supertanker effect of Tobi Dynavox, which really is partly what Henrik referred to that we have Also when we launch new products, the uptake isn't instant. But on the other hand, when things like this happen, We can still have a quite good visibility on what future near and mid- or long term performance will actually look like. So strong confidence in that. Great. That's really helpful. Have you heard anything about competitors taking market share during this time? Or is it the same for everybody? No is the short answer. We haven't heard anything about that. And We should also, again, put into the perspective, this is a prescribed product. It's actually quite complex and long process just to Come to the point where, okay, there is a decision, there is the right stamp and of approval to make sure that you get the product. It's not that you say, okay, this one wasn't in stock. I'll Click on this one and get things done because that's really not how the industry works. Got it. And just a final one on Dynavox. Would be interesting to hear more thoughts on this new law in the U. S, how this will affect And when? So what we're referring to is a specific law, which is almost a continuation of Work that we've been doing throughout the years, which specifically then targets users with a diagnosis of ALS in the U. S. And in essence, what happens if we roll back the tape a little bit, as Henrik mentioned, the process of obtaining a device could be long. And we're not just talking about the 1 to 3 months once you basically have heads up, this is what's happening. Before that, someone was diagnosed with ALS, Which is a neurodegenerative condition and sometimes quite rapid. It could still take a year before you obtain the device. So we fixed that in the so called Steve Gleason Act, which we had enacted a couple of years ago and actually extended Enacted by President Obama, extended by President Trump. Now we have President Biden, who basically improves that law a little bit more, saying that As soon as you have a diagnosis of ALS, you should almost be fast tracked to be able to obtain a communication device like the ones we do for Tobii Dynavox. So don't expect anything to happen overnight, but this is a typical case of the gradual improvements of the reimbursement systems that we are Highly active in making happen, but they also sometimes actually happen without our involvement. Great. Can I ask one more question? Sure. Okay, great. Just wondering how you're doing in VR. The market activity, of course, is, I guess, well known. But the eye tracking part and especially within consumer, when do you expect That to take off. And any sort of input on timing would be great. We expect the 1st consumer VR headsets with natively integrated eye tracking to hit the market next year and then to grow and expand from that. Okay. So we've received a few questions from Daniel via the e mail. So I'll try to read them here. And after that, we'll take Eric's questions. So Will Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech be more integrated now or still seen as 2 different companies? And will Tek still have internal sales to Pro And external to DYNOX and the rest of the market. And I think also we can take a question from the chat into that question as well. You're merging Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech. What benefits are you seeing from that? Yes. That's good. Good questions. So yes, we are merging Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech together. And the one CEO and with a cohesive management team. Because as we mentioned previously, Whereas for Tobii Dynavox, we've actually seen as Tobii has grown and grown and grown, Tobii Dynavox has grown further apart. Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech have gone in the other direction, actually growing closer together. And we see a lot of opportunity to actually become stronger together between these two parts. There's a lot of Customer and customer journeys that overlap, where actually the current structure can be confusing with customers going for 1 division and then maturing and becoming an OEM customer in the other division, things like that. It is easily easy that it becomes confusing in terms of understanding the marketing messages. There's, of course, a pretty obvious deep synergy in the core technology evolution with eye tracking technology we do for the glasses in Tobii Pro, for instance, with the technology that developing for BR and AR. And of course, these teams have been collaborating also in the past, but by actually fusing the organizations tied together, We can kind of put that collaboration on steroids. There's also a relapse in the product portfolio and so forth. So We definitely think that it's going to be great to actually fuse these tighter together. This means that we will no longer have internal sales from Tobii Tech to Tobii Pro because Tobii Tech and Tobii Pro are will not sort of exist per se as concepts in the future. So rather, we will have different market segments in this business that all Sort of can tap into a strong pool of engineering capabilities and competence. However, what has previously been internal revenue from Tobii DynaMox to Tobii Tech will, of course, actually become external revenue from a stand alone Tobii DynaMarks to a stand alone Tobii. Thank you. And another question from Daniel. You speak about unleashing the power, clearer focus, etcetera, with the spin off. Most likely, that's true. But what has been the constraints in the current setup that now will be solved? Yes. And I don't think there is any there is it's not a hard tangible thing as such. And I think the structure that we've had in Tobii Group has actually served us really well. Both Tobii Dynavox and Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech, all of these three businesses, they We have given birth to them inside of Tobii. These have been inception initiatives from the beginning. We started with a business that's today Tobii Pro and then we started what is today Tobii Dynavox Then we sort of put power behind what is now Tobii Take. And each of them have grown and grown. And we early on, we realized very clearly that Actually, even if they have a common origin in eye tracking as a technology, they actually address fundamentally very different customers, very different markets, who need different solutions and who we also reach through different channels. And that's why we very early on created 3 autonomous divisions, with a lot of autonomy to be able to do that. But of course, we realized that at some point in time, essentially What we've seen happening that as time has passed, all of them have grown and grown and grown, and this is now just sort of a natural step to become even more efficient in the organizations. The structure we've had has been the right one based on where we are, But now we're at a stage where the business have matured, and we can become even better. One of our core values in Tobey is beat yesterday, and this is Beat yesterday on a grand scale where we can do this even better. And the synergies are now so low between Tobii Dynavox and the other parts that there is really no benefit with keeping it together, but there is always a benefit in the power of entrepreneurship and the power of focus, and the power of the entire organization, but also customers and other stakeholders, investors truly understanding and appreciating the focused, crisp and clear business. I believe a lot in that, but it's subtle, but very Strong and powerful, I think. Quite human. Very human in many ways. Frederic, maybe can you elaborate from your perspective what are you seeing as the benefits of getting Stan, on your own, 2 things. Well, if you look on the internal aspects, of course, Tobi Dynavox will have its own dedicated Board of Directors who will focus only On the matters that matters to Tobii Dynavox. It's, I would assume, quite difficult to have the split vision of the eye tracking conglomerate We're running today jumping from reimbursement in the U. S. For people with ALS to the next stage in virtual reality. And that, to some degree, applies to me and a set of colleagues as well within the group because, of course, what's happening is that I will personally focus 100%, even though I must say I'm quite focused already today on TobiDynavox. And as another consequence of this split, we have shared functions today, which are super important for us to be successful as a company, But these individuals will also only have one mission, one type of customers, even though we work in a more supporting function. So I'm looking forward to slightly more pointy and slightly more focused internal aspect. And I think I mentioned the external factors about Full throttle ahead on sales expansion. And last question from Daniel. Can you comment a bit more On your world leading IP positions, I guess OEMs like Apple, Microsoft, etcetera, hold on to strong IPR portfolio. But when eye tracking goes consumer mass market, I guess other OEMs are on the verge to launch New XR headsets, glasses, etcetera, how would you see your IP position here? Any chance to get a decent IP licensing Revenue stream ahead and do you pursue this? Tobey has a strong IP position in eye tracking, That's correct. And obviously, as eye tracking continues to proliferate in bigger and bigger scale, the value of A strong IP position increases. One really important part of strong IP is that this becomes a value to our customers. It's part of our sales proposition to our customers that working with us means that you have a Good freedom to operate and that you're implementing technology that sort of has a robust IP He associated with it. So this is already today a strong selling proposition for us when we have are in discussions and close Deals with OEM customers and other types of partners. We also see opportunity for long term For licensing revenue from IP, this is still something that is relatively immature in this market simply because the market as a whole is still very at a very early stage. We already have several licensees to IP, And we have been in processes in the past with Partners and competitors around IP that have resulted in licensing arrangements. But then again, we're still at an early stage, So it will be quite interesting to see how this evolves and how we are able to capture value from this as the eye tracking market continues to grow. Good. And with that, Erik, Larsen, Please unmute yourself, and you should be able to ask questions. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. That's great. A lot of interesting news, of course, and a lot has been covered already. So if I may, I'm going to ask a few questions on the quarter. And first off, we talked or you talked a bit about this earlier, but regarding the supply chain disruption, I estimated on your estimates there that about EUR 20,000,000 just shy of EUR 20,000,000 headwind here in Q1. I assume that this is in addition to the EUR 40,000,000 to EUR 80,000,000 that you guided for in Q2. And if so, Will these almost EUR20 1,000,000 also be recovered around Q3? That's my first question. Yes, it's in the range of €10,000,000 to €20,000,000 in Q1. It's an estimate from our perspective as well, so that's correct. And we do see the $40,000,000 to $80,000,000 to be inclusive of the effect that we've seen in the Q1, But these are fairly round numbers. It actually depends a lot on the exact timing of when we regain full supply capacity to our customers and exactly how that falls around sort of the quarter cut between Q2 and Q3 because according to the current status, we expect to be back in supply during the month of June. But then, of course, how much of that we are able to translate into revenue during Q2 is going to depend on the final outcome and the outcome. That's why the span is quite wide. But the SEK 40,000,000 to SEK 80,000,000 should be considered to be inclusive of the effect that we've seen in the Q1. Okay. That's super clear. Just one more question really on Pro. You mentioned that the gross margin increase was Mainly driven by leverage from fixed COGS. Could you perhaps quantify how much of these are fixed and how much is variable? Margalena, do you want to give a stab on that one? It's a difficult question that is difficult to answer right off. It's sort of it's fixed in steps. So We where you add a proportion of working hours and then you can leverage on that up to a certain step and then you can add Then comes the new step. So it varies over time sort of. So it's difficult to give a very clear answer. I see. No worries. I was just curious. But just one final maybe. After this if this spin off happens, How much of internal revenues today goes to Dynavox? And how much will thus become external, say, for the new Tobi? So the internal sales from TobiTek to TobiDynavox is around $45,000,000 a year. Thanks, Erik. Good. A few more questions from the chat, quite short ones, I think. Will the spin off of Dynalox happen regardless of whether a future stock exchange listing will be proven possible for Dynavox or not? Not necessarily. I mean, we have To be a bit humble to the fact that, of course, we are still early in the preparation for this. So The planned spin off is subject to both sort of the outcome of these preparations as well as The fact that market conditions also, of course, have to be favorable to do this, but the intent is crystal clear. And our plan to do this is crystal clear. So unless something comes in the way, then this is absolutely what we intend to do. And I think also the question maybe is phrased, so will we distribute Tobii Dynavox even if it's going to be listed? And the answer to that is Probably not. We will not distribute a company that will not be that you will not be able to trade as a shareholder. Correct. Then we would keep it. Should Tobi Pro see a strong acceleration of its business during the second half as the pandemic wins off for weekend. That is absolutely our expectation. Let's move to Tobi Tech. Impact of Horizon going forward, how important Is that business or can that business be? It is pure software, so it should have good margins, right? It is pure software, so it has essentially 100% gross margin. The long term opportunity for Horizon as well as Tobii Aware and their sort of cousins where significant parts of the core technology is the same. The long term potential is significant. But of course, again, we're still early on the adoption curve. And this year, we should not expect Very large impact on the total revenues. But over the coming several years, there could be a significant opportunity. Good. And can you comment a little bit about the competitive landscape for Tobi Tech, maybe around the U. S. Military order Went to Microsoft for their HoloLens. I think in general, and maybe if I even broaden the question, if we look for across all of our divisions, both Tobii Dynavox, Tobii Pro and Tobii Tec, we feel there are Very strong market positions and market share, they remain intact and even grow slightly across the board also over the past year or years. Specifically in TobiTeq, We have a very strong position, I would say, relative to other independent third party Suppliers of core eye tracking technology to OEM customers, both in the VR space, in the PC space, for these medical and education devices, Our market position is really, really strong. It does mean that we, in many cases, We see our de facto sort of main competition to be rather from internal initiatives For eye tracking development, which exists in only a few cases with some of the absolutely largest companies on the planet, Microsoft being one of them who where Microsoft has actually developed their own eye tracking technology for the HoloLens headset. Apple being another example with rumors around upcoming VR headsets from Apple, but it's very, very few companies that can actually afford developing such complex technologies, iTrack, and frankly, where it would even be rational. It doesn't mean that we are it's impossible for us to win these companies even as customers, and that's definitely part of the long term ambition, of course. But it leaves us with a very, very strong position towards 99% of all the integration customers out there. Thank you. And can you talk a little bit more about how you see the integration of eye tracking and brain computer interfaces into products? Yes. Far out there. Yes, that's pretty far out, but it is interesting. I think as a general caution, I think we believe that brain computer interfaces On any kind of meaningful scale, it's still very far out. We don't foresee that, that's something that's going to be sort of in our daily lives in any kind of near term. But of course, there is a potential long term that brain computing interfaces could become important and relevant, at least, instance, for certain types of user groups like on the assisted technology side. Like for us, absolutely. Yes. We what's interesting is that eye tracking and brain signals or actually great combination. We have already today in our Tobii Pro division. We do have a fair number of customers actually that work with different kinds of technology for measuring brainwaves and combining that with eye tracking to gain a really in-depth understanding of Human behavior, so using both EEG and other forms of even brain scanning technologies in combination with eye tracking. So when you know sort of What's happening in the brain and what you're paying attention to, that combination allows you to actually understand what the person is Really thinking what information processing, what kind of reaction that gives. So it's actually a very potent combination. The project that we announced now in Q1 with Valve and OpenBCI in for virtual reality actually also aims to explore a combination of other types of input, including brain signals in the ER with eye tracking. But we also have some research engagements on the Tobii DynaMark side. Absolutely. And I think it's fair to say that as new technologies emerge that are makes you able to control something In spite of the fact that you can't control your limbs or your hands, that's super relevant for Tobii Dynavox. Thus far, what we see is exciting, but it's Exciting. And I we embrace everything that will come out and both at a distance or internally. I think it's safe to say that right now, I'm not super keen to be the company who implants chips into people's brains. I think someone else can do that the time being, but we will be happy to read the signals and interpret that into a communication device. But As Henrik alluded, it's still some time out, but it's by no means a competitive thing. It's actually something I would embrace highly. And from a Tobii DynaWorx perspective, you are actually agnostic to the actual input technology already today, and this is sort of A fan out that happened for us very much strategically through the acquisition of Dynamox Systems back in 2014, where we originally we were an eye tracking focused company in assistive technology. But today, Big parts of our solution portfolios are based on touch interface or different kinds of joysticks or buttons or inputs. So eye tracking is just one of many inputs. And as you said, if we can add Brainwave to that equation and make communication solutions even more powerful, well, that's just another tool in Tobii Dynavox future potential technology portfolio. Exactly. Cool. I think we need to start a round off here. We will finish off with 2 last questions, and that is, Henrik, why are you not going to be leading the new Tobi? And secondly, will your new work Your new duties at Tobi be equally engaging? Or are you going to be more of a family father now, spending more time at home? It's kind of funny, I shared it internally a little bit. When me and John and Morten, when we started Tobey once upon a time 20 years ago, We sat at a coffee shop in downtown Stockholm and we shook hands and say, we're going to do this. We said, yes, let's do it. Let's start the company. And John and Morton, they pointed at me and they said, Henrik, you get be the CEO and I'm like, really? Okay, I can be the CEO, but only until we're 10 people, then we'll hire a real CEO. And I guess it's taken us 20 years and I've been clinging on for 20 years, but I really do think that now is Excellent time and excellent opportunity to hand over to 2 real CEOs, Fredrik and Anand for the new Tobi side. And I think there's always something fantastic that comes from doing things a little bit different and not getting stuck in old tracks, etcetera. And I have been CEO of Tobi for 20 years. I'm personally really looking forward to contributing and being deeply engaged in other ways, both from the board level as well as operationally in Tobi. So that's going to be a lot of fun. We're looking forward to that. With that, I'm done with all the Q and A. Thank you for listening it in. Yes. Thanks, everyone, for joining