Earnings Call: Q1 2020

Apr 29, 2020

Welcome everyone to Toby's earnings call for the first quarter. I hope that you are all doing well and staying healthy in these unusual times. I would actually like to start by introducing a new colleague of relevance to you all. Henrik Morguin has just started as Head of Investor Relations at Tobii and will take over from Ola Elmerland, who has acted as interim in this position for some time. Some of you may already know Henrik as he has a background as a sell side analyst at Nordea. So big welcome to the team, Henrik. And if any one of you have questions as investors to us, then of course, please don't hesitate to reach out to Henrik. Next slide, please. In the first quarter, we saw a good underlying sales momentum in all the three business units in Tobii. In particular, Tobii Dynavox was propelled forward by the new I Series, which has had a great market reception and saw accelerating sales during the quarter. However, the good underlying growth was counteracted by early negative effects from the COVID-nineteen pandemic. In particular, we saw a material negative sales impact from quarantine actions in China and Japan during the quarter, which specifically impacted the Tobii Pro business. Despite the COVID-nineteen headwinds, EBIT for the group improved significantly to minus SEK23 million in the quarter. Especially notable is that Tobii Dynavox improved its operating margin significantly to 15%, which means that the division reached the long term financial targets, which we have worked towards for several years. The improved EBIT for the group was helped by very tight cost control across the board and positive gross margin development. Early on, we took the pandemic seriously and were quick to prepare our operations as good as possible. We adjusted our methods of working, we placed large orders to secure supplies and initiated a cost savings program. So far, we have not seen any major disturbances in our actual operations. I am proud of how well the organization has adapted to new and often challenging ways of working. We do expect to see significant near term negative impact on sales from the pandemic, specifically in the coming one to two quarters. We are taking actions to counter this, which we will talk more about later in this presentation. However, with the COVID-nineteen impacts, it is not likely that we will be able to reach our financial targets in 2020. We will review the financial targets once the pandemic situation has stabilized. However, a majority of Tobe's business has historically been highly resilient to economic downturns. Thus, we do expect the bulk of COVID-nineteen effects on sales for Tobe to be quite short term and mainly focused during the period of strict quarantine lockdown actions in our key markets. Let's go to the next slide. And let's talk a little bit more details on our divisions, starting with Tobii Dynavox. Tobii Dynavox is our largest division, making up roughly 60% of our revenue. Tobii Dynavox commands a very strong position as the clear market leader in the long term growth market of assisted technology for communication. Next slide. In the first quarter, revenue in TobiDynavox grew by a solid 12% or 8% adjusted currency compared to Q1 of last year. The main engine, again, behind the growth was the new I Series, which was announced in October. This new product is the most important product in the division and has been a smash hit for us in the market. It has proven to deliver on all of its promises and has been exceptionally well received by both customers and by end users. Sales of the new I Series continued to be very strong in Europe in the quarter and we also saw accelerating sales momentum throughout the quarter in The U. S. If you have some time, check out our unboxing video for the product. There is a link to the right on this slide. This video has been seen by almost 1,000,000 people resulting in record high traffic to our website and strong positive feedback from the assistive technology community. The quarantine measures that many governments have put in place to fight the pandemic have a significant near term impact on our ability to conduct our business in Tobii Dynavox. It is more difficult to meet physically with customers and end users and to perform assessments and trainings. We are, of course, working hard to conduct as much as possible of these activities with virtual tools. And again, I'm really proud of the huge effort and creativity our entire team is showing in this situation. Nevertheless, we do expect clear negative impact on our trovydienahawk sales in the near term, specifically in the coming one to two quarters. However, we also expect that this negative impact will be temporary for tolvidienaHox, essentially only while the most rigorous lockdown restrictions are in place. As soon as these start to be lifted, we expect there to be a pent up demand to service users in need. In the medium to long term, I think many of us anticipate a general economic downturn on the back end of the pandemic. However, we expect tovidynavox to be unaffected by that. The need for our solutions will be exactly the same, and we do not anticipate any changes in funding due to changes in macroeconomic climate. Johan, over to you in the financials for tobeDynaWOX. All right. Thanks and hi everyone. TobeDynaWOX had a strong Q1 and continued a good trend from the 2019. It's great to see how our product investments like the recently launched iSeries and the breadth of the Tobii Dynavox offering have been received in the various geographies. Revenue grew by 12% in the quarter or 8% adjusted for currencies. And as Henrik mentioned, the strong factor behind this was the new I Series product. I'm glad to see growth in most of our main geographies despite the COVID-nineteen development during the quarter. Gross margin came in at 68%, which is above 4% of improvement compared to last year. The improvement in gross margin is mainly due to higher share of I Series as well as some one off effects in the comparison quarter. We controlled our operating expenses well in the quarter and came out flat in the quarter, which is a testimony to our increased focus on cost. With these key drivers, the quarter's EBIT margin was up materially versus last year and also sequentially. A 15% operating margin is really strong and a great basis as we move into a challenging quarter due to the pandemic, which we have strived for in the past few years. So with that, over to you again, Henrik. Thanks, Johan. Our second division, Tobii Pro, is the global leader in eye tracking solutions for understanding human behavior. Also, this division is an undisputed global market leader in strong long term growth market. Next slide, please. Tobii Pro sales decreased by 17% or 20% adjusted for currency in the quarter. The division was significantly impacted by the pandemic already in the first quarter. In particular in China and also somewhat in Japan, countries which early on took extensive quarantine actions, closing both universities and businesses. Overall, the negative impact of the pandemic on Tobiopro's revenue in the first quarter was over SEK 20,000,000. Since the Scientific Research segment dominates our sales in the China markets, this segment saw a large decline in the quarter. Apart from the estimated pandemic effects, we saw a solid growth in the Tobii Pro business. For instance, the professional performance segment grew nicely. Our consulting business, Tobii Pro Insight, grew revenue by over 30% over last year. The new Tobii Pro Fusion Eye Tracker, which we announced in the previous quarter, has been very well received by the market and saw accelerating sales through the quarter. We see that Tobii Pro's sales and customer activities are severely hampered by quarantine actions that now cause many universities and companies to close worldwide. We expect this will have a large negative impact on sales for this division while these actions remain in force, probably during the coming one to two quarters. To counter this, we are taking actions to temporarily reduce our cost level. Despite the current difficult environment, we maintain a positive view on the medium to long term outlook. Also Tobii Pro has a business which is resilient to macroeconomic climate. In particular, the Scientific Research segment, which makes up about half of Tobii Pro's business has historically been strong also in periods of general economic downturn. John, your turn. All right. Tobii Pro's performance in the first quarter was heavily impacted by the COVID-nineteen pandemic. Revenues declined by 17% or 20% adjusted for FX and Henrik summarized the driving factors behind this performance. Gross margin came in at 72%, which was down materially year over year and also sequentially. The reason for the lower gross margin was less scalability on fixed COGS given the lower revenues, some production related startup costs and an increased share of services revenues during the quarter. As we have indicated before, operating expense growth was down considerably compared to the previous four to five quarters and showed a slight decline adjusted for currencies in the quarter. Again, this bodes well for the execution of our COVID-nineteen action plan in Q2, where our plan is to lower the operating costs further. The EBIT margin was materially down compared to last year due to the decline in gross profit. In addition, lower capitalization and higher amortization in R and D meant even lower operating margin. Over to you, Henrik, TobiTech. All right. TobeTech is the world's leading supplier of eye tracking technology for integration into consumer electronics and other volume products. Next slide. Revenue in TobeTech continued to grow in the quarter. External revenue in Q1 was up 31% over last year or twenty five percent adjusted for currency. The growth in this quarter was driven mainly by the VR and PC segments. In the quarter, Qualcomm presented their third reference design for VR and AR headsets, which has been optimized together with us for TOBI tracking. As core advantages of this platform, Qualcomm specifically highlight what they call their Adreno foveation, which is foveated rendering enabled by TOBI tracking, as well as eye tracking in general also for interaction use cases. We saw a continued high level of activity and engagement in customer dialogues and customer development projects in the quarter. We're making significant progress across a range of important opportunities with several of the world's leading technology companies. We see the highest activity in the VR segment as well as around our Tobii Aware offering in the PC segment. Tobii Tech is not directly impacted by the pandemic so much, but there are indirect effects. For instance, some of our customers have had disruptions in their supply chains, which of course also impact Tobii Tech's sales to them. Some customers have experienced delays in their product development projects. Also, some customer dialogues take longer time when it is not possible to meet with them physically. We expect these effects to have some negative impact on Tovitek's business over the coming quarters. We continue to believe a lot in the long term potential of the very large opportunities we are pursuing in Tovitek. And our strategy is to continue to invest in this division. However, the anticipated impact of the pandemic in the coming quarters, mainly on the cash flow of Tobii Pro and Tobii Dynavox, reduced the magnitude of investments into Tobii Tech that the group can afford. Also, parts of Tobii Tech's business, in particular parts of the PC segment, have taken longer to materialize than expected. And for these reasons, we are taking necessary actions to reduce the long term cost level in TobiTech one notch and hence facilitate to reach profitability also in the TobiTech division in line with our previously stated ambitions. These actions include a significant reduction of the number of consultants as well as a smaller reduction of staff. Over to you again, Johan. Okay. Thanks, Henrik. TobiTech's external revenue growth continued with 25% in the quarter where we saw sales in the VR segment contributing strongly. However, this quarter we saw flat internal sales mostly due to the COVID-nineteen impact in TOGI PRO. Overall sales were up 20% or 14% adjusted for currencies. Gross margin was up eight points to 52% versus last year, primarily due to changes in the product mix and one offs of negative character in the comparison period. Our focus on efficiency showed results and the operating expenses were down more than 10% versus last year and actually at a lower absolute level than our earlier communication. I want to say thanks to our TobiTech organization who managed to deliver increased revenues, higher gross margins and lower operating costs in the quarter. Next slide, please. Moving over to the group. The group revenue showed some growth in the first quarter despite the pandemic. Revenues increased by 5% or were flat adjusted for currency effects over last year, where TOBI DynamoX and TOBI Tech both delivered solid growth, but with a decline in TOBI Pro. Gross margin for the quarter was 69%, up one point compared to last year, driven by the impact I mentioned in Tobii Dynavox and Tobii Tech. Tobii's EBIT for Q1 was a negative million, which was a material improvement versus last year and the underlying positive profitability trend was driven by increased gross margin and a decline in operating expenses adjusted for FX. Factors contributing negatively to improved EBIT were decreased R and D capitalization and increased amortization with around $21,000,000 more than in the corresponding quarter of 2019. Without the estimated impact of the pandemic, TOBI Group would have been very close to EBIT breakeven in the quarter. Next slide. Let's wrap up with reviewing our cash flow, which was a negative 62 in the quarter and improved materially versus last year. This change was driven by the improved EBIT and also a lower buildup of the net working capital compared to last year. During the quarter, we executed SEK 150,000,000 cap issue in our existing bond loan and we also established a working capital facility of SEK 15,000,000. Our cash position was SEK $3.00 1,000,000 at the end of the quarter and excluding SmartBox, $278,000,000. So with that back to you, Henrik. All right, let's spend a minute to talk about the measures we are taking to counter the effects of COVID-nineteen. The main reason behind our measures is the anticipated short term impact on sales. The uncertainty is of course high, but in the second quarter, we anticipate that we will see a clear negative impact on our sales in almost all markets. We also expect this to continue to at least some extent in the third quarter. Once our communities open up again, we expect the majority of Sobeys business to rebound fairly rapidly up to its normal level. Hence, we anticipate negative impact on sales in the short term, but likely a rapid recovery. To adapt our costs to the new revenue level in the short term, we have initiated a cost reduction program. This includes decreased discretionary expenses, fewer consultants, a global temporary work reduction program and a temporary salary reduction for the executive management team. An additional part of the program is to facilitate the TobiTech divisions path to profitability in line with previous ambitions. There is still a large opportunity to bring our technology to several new major markets. And as mentioned already, we will continue to invest in Togi Tech. However, given the impact of the pandemic to Togus' overall cash flow as well as longer time for parts of the PC business to develop, we plan to somewhat reduce this level of investments. Primarily, this means that we will prioritize harder and increase our focus. Examples of activities we will put less emphasis on are research with a very long time horizon, customer projects with low short term profitability, and activities that build long term ecosystems, but are not clearly linked to customer revenue in the near future. As part of this, we have recently given notice of termination to 35 employees and 30 consultants in And to put this in perspective, TobiTech has around two forty full time employees. All in all, we expect the program to reduce the group's operating expenses, specifically in the second quarter with roughly 20% compared to last year. And through these measures, we expect we will have a sufficiently strong financial position, both short and long term. We will also be ready to accelerate when the situation improves And we are prepared to take further measures if need be. Next slide, please. So to summarize, in the first quarter, we saw a good underlying momentum in all three business units. However, this was counteracted by early negative effects from the COVID-nineteen pandemic. Despite COVID-nineteen headwinds, EBIT for the group improved significantly to minus SEK 23,000,000 the quarter, especially notable again the large EBIT improvement in COVID-nineteen. We do expect to see a significant near term negative impact on the business from the pandemic, specifically in the coming one to two quarters. Once quarantine actions are lifted, we expect our business to rebound and a majority of Tobi's business has historically been highly resilient to general downturns in the economy. To counter the near term impacts and to facilitate for Trobby Tech to reach profitability in line with our previous ambitions, we've kicked off a cost savings program. Our overall strategy though remains intact. We continue to pursue the large opportunities created by technology that understands human attention and intent and that we derive from our position as the global market and technology leader in this space. We continue to drive increased awareness, adoption and usage in our established markets in Tobii Dynavox and Tobii Pro, thus reaching into the large untapped potential for strong and long term further growth and further improved profit margins. And to unlock the very large potential in new markets by continued innovation and rapid sales growth in Torbitec and reaching profitability also in this division. That concludes the presentation part of today's session, and we are moving on to take questions from, from all of you listening in on the call. To the participants joined over the phone line, should you wish to ask a question, you will need to press star and the number one on your telephone keypad and wait for a name to be announced. Should you wish to cancel it, you may press the pound or hash key. Once again, to the participants joined over the phone line, it's star and one for question. No no questions over the phone line. Proceed, Junior. Okay. Have received Andrej Mover here, the new IR with Toby. We have received a lot of questions over the webcast, so we will try to go through some of them. And thank you for posting those questions. Some of them have been grouped together, so don't feel left out if we don't have your specific wording. So firstly, Toby has a large patent patent portfolio. Are you going to work with Apple? Okay. Thank you for that question. I mean, the first part is we have a large patent portfolio. Yes. We do think that that is important and it's an important part of our strategy to grow and to nurture our patent portfolio because it enables us to have a strong position as we do business in the space of eye tracking. We do believe that the patent portfolio strategically is becoming increasingly important over time as eye tracking becomes more widely adopted across different industries and devices. I don't think it's something that relates specifically to one company or another, as such, and we cannot comment specifically on, whether or not we are working with that in any capacity. Thank you for that. And one question on the current trading, how has sales developed so far in April in all three segments? So typically, we do not comment on sales in the current quarter in an earnings call like this, nor do we give specific forecasts or projections looking forward. However, I think that, in particular, given the current COVID-nineteen pandemic, I think it is clear that we are sending a signal that we expect to see a significant negative impact on sales, in particular in our Tobii Pro, but also in our Tobii Dynavox business in the second quarter. Thank you. Will we see any more computers with Tobii Aware? Yes. It's the short answer to that. Are you still working with Microsoft? We are working with Microsoft in a number of different capacities. We have historically collaborated with Microsoft around standardization of eye tracking, and we are working on similar initiatives today. And we've been working very closely with Microsoft on the integration of eye tracking into the Windows operating system. We're also collaborating with Microsoft around future visions and and directions for the PC market how intelligent sensor technologies play into that. And there are also touch points around the, for instance, the VR ecosystems, etcetera. So we are we're collaborating with them in in numerous different capacities, and actually both, not only in Tollitech, but also, for instance, in Tollbi Dynavox. Thank you. When does Tollbi enter the auto market? So the automotive market is is an interesting market with respect to eye tracking, and, we are pursuing some business development activities in that field similar to what we're doing in other markets that we see as potentially interesting as well. Related to tech, historically, you used to communicate more design wins in v Doctor. Today, it's quiet in the report, but you always say that you are in dialogues with many of them. What do you really mean? We have close relationships with several of the major players in the VR ecosystem, and we are collaborating with several of them around development of an integration of eye tracking technology for future products, that we expect them to bring to market. These are at the stage that the market is still at, these are typically quite long term projects. They run over multiple years, which makes it quite difficult for us to comment specifically on what happens on a quarter to quarter basis. But we continue to see really good traction. We continue to see a lot of interest. We continue to be absolutely convinced that eye tracking is becoming a standard and de facto must have technology for future generations of VR and AR headsets, and Dolby continues to be very well positioned in this space. There has been some articles and and news articles saying that the pandemic might increase the interest in DER and AR. Do you share that view, and have you noticed already a big of interest? It's a pretty a pretty muddled picture that we see. I think the short term effects from the pandemic are actually slightly negative because we have seen impact on supply chains of the major VR headsets in the first quarter and the second quarter to some extent. Many of these ODM and manufacturing partners are based in China, for instance, and then have factories closed, etcetera. So there's been some supply chain disruptions, and that has also led to certain delays in development projects and other activities like that. This has actually led to a shortage of VR headsets just from a supply perspective from several vendors in the market as well. I also think that there is potential to see sort of a long term change of behavior and increased usage of all sorts of virtual and remote collaboration tools as a consequence of the pandemic and that human beings are more or less forced to learn to collaborate also in different ways. And I think that VR and AR long term are likely to benefit from this trend. I think it's quite a long term effect, though. Personally. Your big efforts in esports and analyzing players' skills are not really kicking in. Can you please give us an update on that? And maybe related to that question, can you describe why it takes longer time to get traction with eye tracking in computers? So the first half of the question on on on esports, these initiatives are still quite new and fresh. We have decided since some time back that our approach to esports analytics and training is to engage with partners, who are experts in the field of esports analytics and training. One such partner, which we are working together with is called Mobalytics. Mobalytics has just recently started their beta testing of their very first implementation of eye tracking into these type of tools. So it's still very early days. Their sort of real beta actually only launched last week two weeks ago. It's just absolutely brand new. So it is still too early to assess and estimate how these initiatives will play out. It's exciting. It's interesting. There's a lot of potential, but it's still early days. So I think we need a bit of patience to before we, make a proper analysis of the outcome of that. Okay. And continuing on the tech theme, wording seems to suggest that management has been rethinking the long term tech strategy, as seen by the cost cutting. Besides defocusing on certain PC segments, can you elaborate on which other parts of the tech business that is developing better or worse than expected? I do not agree that we are in a larger manner rethinking the long term strategy for TobiTeK. We still very much fundamentally believe in the significant opportunities for us in TobiTeK. And our strategy is to continue to invest in creating and building this business. But we're also very dedicated to our ambition to bring also TovaTec to profitability. We think that is really important, and it's an important part of growing a healthy and long term sustainable business. So it's a matter of adapting and doing a slight modification on the investment level into TobiTech to facilitate to reach the profitability in a manner that is consistent with our previous ambitions. Now that of course does mean that we have to have a sharper focus and we have to put the lower priority on certain types of activities. It is natural to put the lower priority on some activities around parts of the PC segment that have taken a little bit longer time to materialize compared to what we had expected. And it's also natural to put somewhat lower priority on activities that are really long term investments, such as really long term focus re research. Okay. NVIDIA has launched a lightweight VR gaze tracking system using lead sensors. You got any comments on on that product? There are I think a high level comment is that it is interesting that we see continued very strong interest in eye tracking from a broad range of the biggest players in the tech industry. This is all very, very good signs that a lot of different players are putting significant effort and thinking into eye tracking technology, both how to use eye tracking technology and how to incorporate it into the products, but also in understanding and exploring different technology options. Our specific understanding of what this particular initiative is that this is a research initiative and research article on one potential way to design an eye tracking system. We've also historically done research on similar types of technologies in the past. Okay. And then two m and a related questions. What is the deadline for selling smartphones, and what happens if you can't find the buyer in time? So we cannot communicate anything publicly around deadlines for that process. And but what we can say is that we have seen a good interest from potential buyers in the Smartbox business. It's a good company. That's, of course, why we acquired it in the first place. The pandemic does cause a little bit of of difficulty in the process for obvious reasons. And so we will see exactly how that will play out in terms of timing, etcetera. It's a little bit too early to And continuing on the m and a theme, you raised cash to pursue acquisition opportunities. Nothing has happened so far. Why has nothing happened? And how is the m and a processes in general progressing? So we have a proactive M and A agenda. We are looking at sort of on a continuous basis on a number of different M and A opportunities. We have interesting M and A candidates in the pipeline. We have for the very near term, decided to put them on hold given the current pandemic situation. But once the situation clears up, we have some opportunities K. And we have some more questions coming in. I will try to do them here. Looking back at last year, we saw a negative macroeconomic impact from Brexit and uncertainty surrounding research funding in The U. S. For Tobii Pro. Is this something that has carried over to Q1 twenty twenty? And if so, how much impact has it had on the decrease in revenue for Tobii Pro? So the Brexit impact was a clear negative impact throughout most of 2019, and it was especially notable in 2019. We believe that we've actually turned that corner, and we saw a really strong sales, specifically in The UK market for Flodipro in the first quarter. So that was really good to see. Now, obviously, going forward in the next month, two quarters, have pandemic in turn, which impacts UK as well. But I think that that turn that corner has been turned. That was really good to see. And if anything, turned into a positive in first quarter. The uncertainty around research funding in The US, we did not see that specifically clear in the first quarter. So I think that our feeling is that that we did not see that as as a clear effect, which is good. Thank you. What is the increase in revenue in TOBIDANA was due to? More units sold or higher prices on the new I Series? So average pricing for the new I series is reasonably much in line with previous pricing. So it's not per se a price increase, but rather a an increase in in the number of I Series units sold. And we also see an increase in gross margin. Is this a trend we will continue to see the rest of the year or in the future if there is a higher gross margin for the I Series? Good question. Yes. We believe that the new level where we're actually back to more historical gross margins will sustain. Obviously, there's short term uncertainty around the COVID nineteen impact, but that should be of temporary nature, I believe. And then the revenue increase here, I presume it's in Dynavox in q one is mainly or almost everything is due to the increase in North America. Is this due to faster shutdown in Europe and Asia, or is it a coincidence? We generally see, in Tobii Dynavox specifically, we see a good sales increase both in Europe and North America. So that's not specifically tilted to North America. If you look on the group level, we see an increase in sales to North America. But that, if anything, is due to the fact that tolbiidinavox performed very strongly in the first quarter and tolbiidinavox generally have a pretty significant tilt towards sales in the North American market. And do you shift breakeven into 2020 instead? And are you happy with the I will take that question. All right. So I mean, in line with our communication on April 7, we communicated that due to the uncertainty of the pandemic situation, we have withdrawn our financial targets for review, and we will be back on those when the situation has stabilized. Okay. Was there a second question? No? Yes. Are you happy with the cash line? Or do you need a capital increase in 2020? We believe that with the measures that we're taking in terms of the cost reduction program that our financial position and liquidity are sufficiently strong in both the short term and long term. About the 20% OpEx reductions you expect in Q2, how much of that is temporary? And how much do you expect will remain when the COVID-nineteen crisis is over? Good question. I mean, most of what we have designed and Henrik talked about is to temporarily drop down significantly in Q2 in terms of operating expenses. Some of it is more long term, which is related to the structural changes that we are doing in the TobiTech area. You know, I would expect some of the short term, hopefully, to stay there in terms of, you know, cost focus, etcetera, but how much is very hard to say. Okay. And will you stick to the classic one to one sales approach in the Tobii Pro business, or are you planning to implement more digital online approaches? It's a good question in this pandemic and times. We are working, of course, as I think many companies are, extremely hard to conduct our business virtually today. And I think that that our team also in Tobii Pro is doing an excellent job at this. I mean, today, virtually, all of the sales activities are done over different kinds of virtual platforms and sales activities, marketing activities, training activities, and so forth. And I think that we are well equipped to do that. One challenge though is that eye tracking equipment is sort of inherently actually a physical device that you install, in particular in the Tobii Pro business, you install it in another environment of one of our customers to a large extent. And when, for instance, universities are just physically closed, that does cause significant challenges short term in the sales process. But on the other hand, the grant money is still there, the professors are still there to do the grant application, but it may cause timing delays for when we can actually evaluate the product and conclude a purchase. There are parts of Tobii Pro's product offering that are pure web based solutions. For instance, we have a platform called Sticky, which is from an acquisition that we did a few years ago, which is pure SaaS based testing solutions that actually use people's sort of in home web cameras to do a rudimentary form of eye tracking, but in large scale. And this is, of course, the type of platform that we are pushing very hard in the current environment in the Tobii Pro business and which is seeing a lot of increased interest due to the sort of world the way it looks today. Okay. And I think we've covered most of them, only one last year. Can you confirm that you still expect Orbitech to reach breakeven in 2021? I think that what we are saying specifically is that we are taking actions to facilitate to for TobeTech to reach profitability in line with previous ambition. But we are not providing a specific new financial target specifically on this at this point in time. And as Jon stated previously, we will come back with revised financial targets once the situation is stabilized, and we can be a bit more accurate in making projections and predictions. Thank you. Good. So then I think we are done for today. Thank you. That was a lot of really good questions. Thank you for these, all of you. And thank you all for attending our earnings call today. We hope that you all continue to stay healthy and that we will see you in an upcoming Toby earnings call as well. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.