Hi, everyone, welcome to Tobii's earnings call for the second quarter of 2021. It's great to have many of you here on this call. I hope that you've had a good summer, maybe a couple of days off and a chance to relax and re-energize a bit. Personally, it feels great to be back at full cylinders, and I'm really looking forward to an exciting Tobii fall. In this presentation, I will cover our business progress in Q2. Magdalena, our CFO, is with us to take us through some of the financials. We have invited Anand Srivatsa specifically to talk a little bit more about our initiative in driver monitoring, as well as the acquisition of Phasya. Henrik Mawby, our head of IR, will chaperone us through the Q&A that we will do at the end.
I would like to ask you, if you have questions, it's actually great if you can post them in the Q&A window already now during the presentation, as it will make the Q&A session a bit more efficient. With that, let's get started. Summarizing the second quarter, it really is a tale of two halves. On the one hand, both revenue and operating result were low in Q2. However, there were specific reasons of temporary nature behind this, and underneath the reported numbers, we see a continued really good growth of sales activity across the board for all the different parts of the business. Hence, I'm quite optimistic about the outlook for the coming months, and I am confident that we have a really good second half year ahead of us. Revenue for Tobii Group was 4% lower than in Q2 in last year.
The main reason for this was the supply disruption in Tobii Dynavox. We announced this already earlier this year. In addition to this supply disruption, we also saw continued effects from the pandemic on all parts of our business, even though we see slightly different effects for the three divisions. Behind this, we also see continued good signs of recovery for all of the three business units, and sales activity is clearly picking up across the board. For instance, order intake in Tobii Pro was up 50% in the quarter. Order intake was also really strong in Tobii Dynavox, and we definitely see positive signs of customer activity pick up also for Tobii Tech. After the quarter, we announced a significant initiative, which is Tobii's entry into the mass market for automotive driver monitoring systems with the announcement of our Tobii DMS solution.
We also announced the acquisition of Phasya. Generally, in Q2, we made good progress on the planned spin-off and subsequent listing of Tobii Dynavox, and we've also been working really hard and making good progress on the integration of the organizations for Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech. Taken together, all of this really does set us up well for a really strong second half. Let's dig a little bit deeper, and as usual, let us start with Tobii Dynavox. As most of you know really well, Tobii Dynavox is a global leader in assistive technology for communication. This is Tobii's largest business unit in terms of revenue, and also from an organizational perspective, it makes up roughly half of our organization and team. Many companies are affected by large scale global supply chain disruptions that are happening right now, and this is a reality also for us.
In March already, we communicated that we had a severe supply chain disruption to one of our main products, the I-13, the Tobii Dynavox I-13 device, and that this would lead to a temporary stop of deliveries, and also then lead to a deferral of revenue from Q1 a little bit, and mainly Q2 into the third quarter of this year. We have worked really hard to resolve this issue, and it is now resolved, which is great. We have redesigned parts of the product at record pace to circumvent a specific component shortage, and we are now back again at full shipping capacity since July. During the end of the first quarter and essentially through all of the second quarter, we were unable to ship this product.
However, we could still keep up a high sales activity, and with really good order inflow, this led to actually a record high order backlog and funding cases in the pipeline at the end of Q2. Already now, by middle of Q3, we have shipped an absolute majority of this very large order backlog. In addition to this supply disruption, Tobii Dynavox business continued to also be pressured by the pandemic. Because of COVID, many schools have continued to be closed, in many regions, and there's also been continued restrictions on access to elderly care facilities, hospitals, other types of institutions which are important for us, for therapists, and of course, for our end users. Despite these challenges, the underlying sales activity and order intake continued to improve and was significantly higher than in Q2 of last year.
If we look at the second quarter, also if we measure on the first half. I'm actually personally really impressed by how well Tobii Dynavox business has actually performed in this entire past year, despite the very significant practical impact that the pandemic has had on this specific industry. To a large extent, this is thanks to heroic efforts from our team. I really want to send a special thanks to all of our team members that are working really hard under very unusual circumstances to really service our users in fantastic ways. Over to you, Magdalena, and some more specifics on the financials.
Thanks, Henrik. Hi, everyone. Well, as Henrik already mentioned, Tobii Dynavox revenue was heavily impacted by the supply chain disruption in this group, and in addition, also other negative effects from the pandemic that continue to affect the revenue negatively. In total, this second quarter, revenue was -15% organically. We can conclude that due to the supply chain disruptions, around SEK 70 million of revenue has been pushed from the first half year into the third quarter. When checking now, we can see that 85% of this revenue has already been invoiced up until today. Since the supply chain disruption started out in March this year, the picture gets clearer if we look at the first half year, when we recalculate the figures instead of only this quarter. That is why we comment on the first half year in this case.
Had we been able to deliver these SEK 70 million as normal, we would have seen an organic growth of around 7% during the first half year. Gross margin was 64%, in line with last year. Costs were higher than last year, where we in 2020 received pandemic-related government grants and work with work time reductions, and where in 2021 are back to more normalized sales and marketing levels. The EBIT margin in Q2 was -14%, compared to 13% last year. Again, now looking at the first half year, we would have had an EBIT of +12% in Tobii Dynavox during January to June if adjusting for the supply chain disruption. Thank you, Henrik.
Thank you, Magdalena. Let's switch gears and turn our attention to Tobii Pro. We'll just hold one second for some camera issue, and here we are. As you know, Tobii Pro is the global leader in eye tracking solutions for understanding human behavior. Tobii Pro is actually the part of our business which has had the biggest negative impact from the pandemic. Half of Tobii Pro sales are to universities, and many universities worldwide have been physically closed, and this has also continued throughout the entire first half of this year. On top of this, a vast majority of eye tracking studies to understand human behavior, both on the academic side as well as on the enterprise side, involve interacting with test participants in person.
For instance, at a university lab, in a physical lab facility, or when working together with a shopper to do a test in a physical retail store. Of course, this means that for a majority of Tobii Pro's customers, it has been quite difficult to actually efficiently conduct eye tracking studies during the pandemic. Of course, this in turn has obviously had a negative impact on revenue for Tobii Pro. The pandemic is not over, and we still see challenges. We still see negative effects in the market, the situation clearly continues to improve at good pace. We see this in much increased sales activity and very strong growth in order intake. Currency-adjusted order intake, as I mentioned at the beginning, was actually up a whopping 50% compared to Q2 of last year.
Sales grew rapidly across most of our key markets, including the U.S., Europe, and Japan. China, however, had a particular challenge in Q2, and that is that for a large portion of universities in China, there was a budget freeze due to a delay from the Chinese government to release certain types of research grants. We do expect this situation to be resolved during the second half of this year. In Q2, we launched an important new capability for our Sticky offering, which is to do eye tracking studies also on mobile phones. Sticky is a solution for enterprise customers to test digital media on different kind of platforms. Previously, this has only been available on desktop computers.
By introducing this capability also on mobile phones, we can offer our enterprise customers this kind of testing solution cross-platform, which frankly makes it much more relevant and much more appealing for a large majority of our enterprise customers here. Magdalena, some more numbers, please.
Okay. Thanks. Yes. Revenue grew 40% organically in Tobii Pro. Although being a high figure, we are comparing with a low figure last year, and we are still being negatively impacted by the pandemic in this quarter. On the positive side, we have an order intake growth of 50% organically versus last year. With that, we are almost back to pre-pandemic levels regarding order intakes in this second quarter. Gross margin was 69%, in line with last year's second quarter. Costs and amortizations of R&D were higher than last year due to investments in Glasses 3, in combination with a return to a more normalized sales and marketing level of the last years receiving government grants and having work time reductions. The EBIT margin was -34% compared to -39% last year.
Thank you, Magdalena. Turning to Tobii Tech. Tobii Tech is the world leader in providing eye-tracking technology to integration customers, both in consumer and professional use cases across markets like personal computing, gaming, VR, AR, automotive, medical devices, et cetera. During the past several quarters, we've seen a lower business activity in Tobii Tech due to the pandemic. Mainly this is because the pandemic has delayed the introduction, the integration, and slowed the ramp of sales of new products for our integration customers. We see that this situation is gradually improving, and the activity level started to pick up already in Q1 and continued to improve also in the second quarter. That means that we do see a good flow of new design wins coming in.
In Q2 specifically, we obtained five new design wins, one for new VR headsets and four new design wins for medical applications. Tobii is collaborating closely with many of the big tech companies to, together with them, drive the ecosystem around their technologies and customers and eye-tracking technology. We work closely with companies like Qualcomm, Intel, Microsoft, and so forth. As one example, we are collaborating closely with Nvidia to enable their ecosystem around Nvidia graphics to leverage the full power of eye tracking, specifically in what is called foveated rendering. Foveated rendering is a technology that means that you concentrate graphics processing and graphics resources only to where you are looking as a user. This enables the computer or the device to deliver a stunning graphics experience or alternatively, to trade this for lower cost and power consumption.
In Q2, specifically, Nvidia launched what they refer to as VRSS 2 or Variable Rate Supersampling 2 as part of their updated graphics drivers. In this, we have worked very closely together with Nvidia to make dynamic foveated rendering possible on their graphics card without any need for software developers to actually make any changes to the code of the software. This is exactly the type of step forward that really helps accelerate and drive widespread adoption of eye-tracking, specifically for devices such as virtual reality. We also announced our entry into automotive driver monitoring systems. This is an additional focus area for Tobii Tech, alongside with gaming, VR, and medical devices. Anand again will talk a bit more to this as well as the Phasya acquisition in a couple of minutes. Before that, Magdalena, your turn again.
Thanks. Yes. In Tobii Tech, revenue was -15% organically versus the previous year. The internal sales to Tobii Dynavox was negatively affected by supply chain disruption, and also external partners were affected by the pandemic, and all in all, leading to a lower revenue for Tobii Tech in this quarter. Gross margin came in at 54%, compared to 72% last year, where we had unusually high non-recurring engineering revenues last year. Also there is an impact on the deferred sales to Tobii Dynavox, which has high margin. Costs were lower than last year as an effect of the cost reduction measures implemented during 2020. With that, we summarize an operating loss of SEK -48 million for the quarter in line with last year. The revenue for the group this quarter was organically -4% versus the previous year.
We continue to see further recovery from the pandemic, this quarter was heavily impacted by the supply chain disruption within Tobii Dynavox, in combination with continued negative effect from the COVID lockdown in all three business units. In addition, we also need to remember that Q2 normally is our weakest quarter. Gross margin was 66% compared to 69% last year, where it was the product mix within Tobii Tech that made up the difference for the group in this quarter. If you look at and compare with the longer-term average, the low gross margin is explained by negative scale effects due to the temporarily lower volumes in the quarter. Costs increased organically 9% between the quarters, mainly due to having work time reductions programs and receiving government grants last year. Operating results ended on SEK -99 million versus SEK -45 million last year.
Cash flow after continuous investments was -SEK 69 million versus -SEK 90 million last year, where the main difference, of course, between the years was the operating result. Cash at hand was SEK 349 million. Net debt was SEK 251 million. We have a bond loan that will expire in February 2022. Here we have a plan for refinancing, which we expect to come back to in the next quarterly report. With that, back to you, Henrik.
All right. Again, if we summarize the quarter, we did see both revenue and operating result pressured by temporary factors. Again, most notable, the supply disruption in Tobii Dynavox, which of course, will lead to a large shift of revenue from the first half into Q3. Second, continued pressure from the pandemic. We also really do see a continued recovery and a very strong pickup in sales activity and order intake in the second quarter already. We're leaning forward with the announcement of our initiative in driver monitoring and the acquisition of Phasya. When we look ahead, we of course expect Q3 to see a significant benefit from the deferred revenue from the first half. It should be a very strong Q3. In addition to that, we definitely expect continued general pickup in sales activity across the board also during the fall.
Taken together, this puts us in a really good position for an unusually strong second half of this year. Reaching positive operating result for the full year remains our ambition, but it has become more challenging due to the extended negative effects from the pandemic. I also wanted to specifically comment on the progress on some of the structural changes that we're implementing right now. First of all, the spinoff and the preparations for the public listing of Tobii Dynavox are progressing according to plan. Our aim is to complete this by the end of the year. Second, the organizational integration of Tobii Pro and Tobii Tech is also progressing well, and we've taken major steps here during the second quarter. Both of these changes are large projects that consume significant resources and a lot of management attention.
I'm also very confident that the result of this will be creating two even stronger companies, each with much tighter focus, more empowerment, and even more agility, and that this will boost long-term success and unlock additional long-term shareholder value. We are planning for a capital markets day to present both of these parts of Tobii in more detail later during the fall, but we haven't set a date just yet, but we'll come back with that at a later point in time. With this, I would like to hand over to Anand to specifically talk about our automotive DMS initiative and the Phasya acquisition.
Perfect. Thank you so much, Henrik. Now, I know that I've had the chance to meet some of you, but for those who I haven't had the chance to meet, I thought maybe it would be good to start off with a quick introduction about my background. I've been at Tobii now for a little bit over two years as the Division CEO of Tobii Tech. Prior to that, I was at Intel for 15 years in a variety of roles, from sales to product management, finally to P&L ownership, running one of Intel's largest businesses, the desktop, workstation, and channel business. Now, at the end of the year, I'm really looking forward to the outcome of the spinoff of the listing of Tobii Dynavox and taking a new role as the CEO of the new Tobii.
I'm really excited about the prospects for the company, and our announcements around automotive are a significant part of that. Today, I thought I would share some additional context about that automotive DMS market. Let's start by first talking about the opportunity and why we are so excited about the value that we can create in this space. What we see right now is that over the last two decades, you see a global commitment to Vision Zero initiatives from governments and countries across the world. The Vision Zero initiative is about reducing the impact of fatalities and accidents that happen because of driving. A key component of achieving Vision Zero is actually the adoption of technologies that are active safety technologies in nature.
We have technologies that are focused on driver assistance, like collision warnings or unintended lane departure warnings, or for example, blind spot warnings for drivers to understand that there are other vehicles on the road that may actually be impacted by your actions. These type of driver assistance technologies have been rapidly adopted, and now they're a baseline expectation for consumers for safety features in new cars and trucks. The next step in achieving Vision Zero in our mind is the adoption of driver monitoring type of solutions. Driver monitoring solutions rely on assessing the driver's behavior in providing indications of their state and ability to continue to drive. Tobii today is the world leader in developing behavioral assessment based on eye tracking solutions.
When we look at our mission, the automotive DMS opportunity is firmly within the scope of what we intend to deliver, which is delivering on improving the world with technology that understands human attention and intent. When we look around the world, the requirement for driver monitoring systems is gaining legislative mandate. There's legislative support already in the European Union. When you see other markets around the world, you see that legislation is being considered, for example, in the United States, and we expect that other markets around the world will follow suit on this trend. We think that these legislative mandates will create significant demand for driver monitoring systems, especially in the 2025 year and beyond, as these mandates come into effect.
We started our work on our Tobii DMS product focused on driver monitoring a couple of years ago because we see tremendous leverage between our existing technology set and what's being required for this, as well as this clear market potential. Let's talk a little bit about the product. Now, Tobii DMS builds on two decades of eye-tracking expertise that Tobii has brought to bear. Henrik talked about the fact that we are a leading company, both in terms of enabling eye tracking in medical systems as well as in Tobii Pro, enabling commercial companies to understand behavior, and in Tobii Tech, enabling these eye-tracking solutions into mass market type of devices. Our core competency as a company is centered on three areas that we think are extremely relevant to the automotive market. One is that we can deliver robust and reliable eye-tracking and head-tracking signals.
Number two is that we have the track record to ensure that these signals work seamlessly on everyone and in almost all circumstances. The third key competency is that we are able to deliver signals that meet the first two criteria with low power, low computing costs, and we can ensure that they're able to be delivered in systems that are manufactured in high scale. We think these three core competencies are extremely important as automotive DMS solutions scale into the marketplace. Our intention is that Tobii DMS will be an algorithm-only product that is delivered through tier ones and into OEMs for integration into their solutions. One unique advantage when we look at our offering in the space is that Tobii, as a company, has knowledge of the full stack required to deliver a product, from sensor design to compute design to algorithms, and finally, end-user software.
That unique knowledge allows us to work with our partners in delivering disruptive, lower total cost of integration solutions. Now, when we consider the product Tobii DMS, we see tremendous leverage from our core technology investments across existing verticals. This has allowed us to accelerate our development of our product as we leverage the learnings that we've seen in implementing eye tracking solutions across vertical markets like personal computing, across medical devices, et cetera. We recognize, of course, that for any development, there will be new learnings required to put the product out into the space, but we are also quite confident that as we've scaled our solutions into new verticals, there are significant learnings we already bring into the space which improve our chances for success here.
When we look at our product, we see that our core competency is around the lower-level signals, but we expect that going forward, we're going to have to build on top of these eye-tracking and head-tracking signals to go into perception layer signals that are focused around drowsiness, distraction, cognitive load, et cetera. This is the path that the Tobii DMS product is on already. As part of getting there, we've also started to announce partnerships with some leading companies in the space. We have partnerships in place with Sunny, who's a leading optics provider for a variety of applications, including automotive. We've also partnered with a company called Nviso, which is providing solutions for a next area of focus for automotive manufacturers around in-cabin monitoring.
The combination of these core competencies around eye-tracking and head-tracking, our partnerships with these leading companies give us a lot of confidence going into this market. One area that we understand that we're going to have to go augment our solution on is around higher-level signals like distraction and drowsiness. This is where our acquisition of Phasya is a perfect strategic fit. Phasya is a leading provider of algorithms that assess and monitor physiological and cognitive states. The acquisition of Phasya brings to Tobii a world-class set of algorithms around these higher-level perception signals and perfectly complements our core competency around eye-tracking and head-tracking, as we've talked about before. The primary rationale for acquiring Phasya is really around accelerating and augmenting our automotive product line. This is a perfect fit that sits on top of our core competency and extends our portfolio.
These higher-level signals have tremendous value in other parts of Tobii's businesses as well. In addition to seeing the benefits that we expect here on the automotive market, we think that we have the potential to unlock significant value by scaling Phasya's algorithms into a diverse and broad set of customers with Tobii's global sales and marketing reach. In summary, the automotive DMS represents for us a significant opportunity going forward. We believe that our technology approach, which we've built over two decades of experience, allows us to efficiently go after new vertical markets. Our ambition, of course, is to be a leader in the automotive DMS space. With the acquisition of Phasya, we are augmenting our automotive offering, but we fully expect that the algorithms that we are acquiring here will have value to our diverse and broad set of customers.
I think the combination of this automotive announcement as well as our acquisition is a fantastic way for us to kick off the second half of the year and another proof point that we continue to be focused on driving growth.
Back to you, Henrik. Great. Thank you so much, Anand. With that concludes the presentation part of this session, and let's move over to questions. Henrik Mawby, do we have any questions that have come in?
Actually, no, not yet. Let's dive into that. Please post your questions in the chat. Analysts, if you wish to ask a question, indicate your interest in the Q&A or chat and we'll let you in. If you're not an analyst and you wish to ask a question verbally, please send an email to ir@tobii.com and we will invite you in as presenters to the meeting. Let's see here if we have any analysts. Daniel Thorsson, please unmute yourself and go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you very much. Do you hear me?
Yes, loud and clear.
Excellent. Question on Dynavox then, and the supply chain. We hear from many companies in the tech industry that both component shortage and the supply chain issues have really accelerated throughout July and August. You basically reconfirmed the guidance you left in March. Has the supply disruption really resolved that quickly for you? Is it as you guided for in March without any acceleration recently? The follow-up is obviously what kind of organic growth do you see in the first seven weeks of Q3?
Yeah. Maybe I can respond on this. Yes, the specific supply disruption is resolved. The actual component shortage that we had on this I-13 product was the actual display element. We happened to use a display element that is similar to many educational laptops, and that's just extreme component shortage, and we saw that coming a while back. We actually took the decision to redesign for a completely new display element. It's a pretty radical decision. I think afterwards this turned out to be exactly the right decision. Of course, it meant that we had to introduce a new display element. We have to go through all the medical certification and other processes of the product with this new display element component integrated. That's why it actually takes a period of time, several months of a stop.
It also means now that we actually don't have to rely on a display element that could have additional supply shortages, but we're actually quite confident that we have good supply of this particular component. That said, there is also, I think many companies see that there is, from time to time in this very particular environment we have right now, there are component shortages or challenges showing up. We see this as well, and we see it sort of not only in Tobii Dynavox, but sort of for all parts of our business. This is something that we are working very intensely with, and our operations team are putting in a lot of effort to handle this and manage this in different ways. The team is doing a fantastic job, and so far we've been successful at mitigating any of these challenges and problems that have occurred.
We are also taking precautionary steps of increasing our inventory levels quite substantially. It also means that we do pay a premium for certain types of components. We pay a premium to put more components on the shelf to secure production and supply. So far, this is working and is working well for us. It does mean there are risks here also going forward. As of now, we are not aware of any particular supply challenges that would prevent us from not being able to deliver to our customers in a good way. However, as we've stated, we do get a small cost increase. We had it in Q2. We expect to have it over the coming several quarters as well because of this hedging and paying premium for some of these components.
Yeah. That's good. I think the natural follow-up on that is obviously how you think the gross margin will develop. Now it was down slightly. Will it have a material effect if you pay up for products?
In the short term, not material. We see right now that it might affect us around 1% to 2% percentage points within Tobii Dynavox going forward.
Okay, that's fine. The second question on Tobii Pro. At least on my expectations, operating costs were quite a lot higher than I expected. Although sales is close to 2019 levels, the EBIT is some SEK 25 million lower here with a loss. What are your initiatives there? What is your message for us looking into H2 on the cost side in Tobii Pro?
You or me, Magdalena?
Would you like to start?
I can start, maybe you fill in. It depends a little bit on how you do the comparison. Obviously, if you do a year-over-year comparison, the primary reason for a higher cost is that last year we had fairly significant lower cost due to both government grants and work reduction programs. I think that's the biggest change there, if you look at the operating cost organically. If you look more relative to a steady state or previous quarters, we are leaning forward in the Tobii Pro division. We are increasing sales and marketing activity and hence also sales and marketing expense and OpEx because we see this very rapid pickup in sales activity and customer interest. I think those are the main explaining factors. Magdalena, anything we should add to that?
No. In addition, we have a slightly higher level of amortization of R&D. Meaning that, as you asked, this will continue. That we are on a level now that we see will continue being the level we are on.
One additional point, if you look at the operating result, of course, which is good to keep in mind, is that the second calendar quarter is always, from an operating result, by far the worst quarter for Tobii Pro. Whereas in particular, the fourth and the first quarter are where Tobii Pro has a tendency to make its profits.
Okay, I understand. Then another question to Anand, I guess, from Tobii Tech external sales. When we look at the industry, we see a tougher momentum for all gaming-related products, both hardware and software, due to the shortages of the components and also the reopening of the society. How do you see the PC sales development and the VR headset development going into the second half of the year? Do you still think that 2022 will be a big VR year?
Yeah. Let me take the two parts of the question a little bit separately. I think from a 2022 perspective, I think that we absolutely expect that it'll be a big year for VR. We have already seen the back half of 2020, for example, surprisingly positive from a VR perspective. I think that if you're following along with the industry rumors, there's of course the rumors around many players coming into the space. From a 2022 perspective, I think the big change is going to be increased focus on consumer VR. The pandemic itself, of course, has also increased the value of collaboration in general. While we do a lot of collaboration with video conferencing, tools like VR are becoming more and more relevant as the pandemic, unfortunately, continues to extend beyond what all of us would like.
I think from that perspective, I think VR has a tremendous amount of momentum, and we still continue to believe that 2022 is both a big year for consumer VR as well as a big year for eye-tracking adoption. We continue to see momentum through the course of this year. In this year, our VR momentum has been impacted a little bit by supply shortages. We have seen announced design wins that we've had either ramp slower than expected or launch later than we expected. Those are things that we are seeing in 2021. Again, we think 2022 is a little bit of a discontinuity in terms of the VR market.
On the PC side, I think it's quite well known that there are a lot of supply challenges. This is part of what has been a little bit more of a global issue for tech in general. In general, we see that our integration customers are having challenges. Some of them may be related to things like graphics cards not being available as much, specifically to gaming-related systems. There are broader supply challenges as you alluded to. We are seeing that not only in PC but also in other parts of our markets. That being said, what Henrik alluded to earlier in terms of our business activity coming back is the peak of the pandemic, where some of our more disruptive customers were seeing financial challenges beyond just the supply impacts we see now or concerns about the longevity of their business.
Those things are starting to stabilize. Again, we see a mix of our customer base, some that are large companies that today may be dealing with supply chain issues, and some smaller, innovative companies who a year ago were really concerned about where is this pandemic going to go. That's part of what we're starting to see normalize.
Okay. That's clear. I end up with the final question from Magdalena, I think, and that's on the capital allocation in the separate listing of Dynavox. Am I right when thinking that the bond you have outstanding of SEK 450 million is linked to Dynavox in the sense that the cash related to that has to be transferred to the Dynavox business, which ultimately should require a quite material capital increase in the remaining Tech Pro business. Am I right there?
No.
Okay.
We are looking into the split now. As I said, we are looking into the refinancing of the bond, which we will come back to before the split. We are populating or looking into the two balance sheets, and you will see Tobii Dynavox that will have loans, while you will see new Tobii without loans.
The bond will be fully on Dynavox.
Yes.
Sorry?
The bond will be fully on Dynavox balance sheet, right?
Yeah. The bond/the loan sort of.
Yeah. We will refinance the bond, but we haven't said exactly how yet. We'll come back to that a little bit later. Yeah. It's of course super important that we ensure that both Tobii Dynavox and new Tobii both have a really good and solid balance sheet and capital structure. That's something we are working on right now, and we're confident that we will be able to find good solutions for that.
Okay. Thanks for that. I stop there.
Okay. Just Kristoffer and Jeff, I think that the last discussion on the bond answered your questions. If not, ask another question on that topic and we'll try to clarify. Daniel Djurberg, you want to ask some questions? Please unmute yourself. He's probably calling in. Okay. I'll try to allow this number then. Okay, Daniel, I think you have to use the link that I sent in the email and log in via your phone or computer on the Teams or call in again. Sorry about that. Okay. Let's go to one more question from the chat then. In terms of the automotive f ield and entry into that space. Can we discuss a little bit about the time or volume expectations we have there, and maybe if we can comment on market share wishes or hopes or dreams?
Yeah. I can take some of that, I think. As we talked about in our product, our expectation is that we think that there's going to be significant increases in the amount of cars that are shipping with driver monitoring systems that are tied to the European legislation, for a start. As I mentioned, there are other countries and regions that are also considering legislation, which will really drive the adoption of those technologies. The timing for that that we see right now is in the 2025 timeframe. Of course, there's already cars with DMS out on the street today, but when it gets to being mandated that cars have to have it in order to sell in a particular region, that will create significant sales momentum.
We see that 2025 timeframe being pretty significant, where all of a sudden you start to get to tens of millions of cars on the road that will need DMS in that particular year. Now, from our approach, we are looking at a product that would then be targeting those kinds of cars in the 2025 timeframe. We expect that, what we would be engaged on between now and then is in RFIs and RFQs with customers, hopefully with awards of business in the 2022 timeframe that would result in shipping products from these customers in that 2024/2025 type of time horizon. Again, our aspiration is to be one of the leaders in the space, but we are also very humble and cognizant of the fact that there are other competitors.
We think that because of our pedigree, our capability, our immense leverage between our products, we think that we have built enough credibility that we think that this is something that we can go achieve at that point in time. I think as a market leader, I think we don't have specific market share expectations to share with you right now, but we hope to share more details with you in our capital markets day when we talk about it in the fall.
Thank you. Let's jump to Carnegie. You have some questions, Mikael Laséen?
Yes. Good morning. I hope you can hear me.
Loud and clear.
Good. Yeah. About this DMS opportunity on the automotive side, can you talk about the cost that you have had and expect to have or investments into this area?
Yeah, I can take that again. I don't think we would go into the exact detail of exactly what the costs are. As we talked about, the investment in automotive relies on two parts in general. One is the fact that we are able to leverage our core eye-tracking technology. This is part of why we are able to deliver this product on this kind of timeline. We're leveraging core investments that we make across the different segments that Tobii plays in today, medical, PC, et cetera. We've also started on the specific adaptions that are needed for DMS because there's certainly changes that are required to be in the automotive space, and we started that work already two years ago.
When you look at the results that you're seeing for Tobii as well as Tobii Tech, the cost of some of those investments are already played in. We don't think that there's going to be a substantial increase in base platform costs beyond what's already in our current run rate of spend. You should think that that's going to be normal. Of course, as we start getting awards, there's an expectation that the integration work to get into a particular car will drive some investment, but those are typically defrayed with investments from that OEM towards us in the form of NRE. You should think about that cost being balanced by revenue for the particular adaption of our platform into a model car. That's something that would come over the next couple of years and would be dependent on the design wins we get.
Okay. Got it. Can you say something about how ready the product is right now and when do you need to have it integrated and sort of fully competitive and ready to be delivered? I'm thinking about lead times in the auto industry.
Again, our target is to try to be in cars that are shipping in the 2024/2025 timeframe. Again, we're timing that based on where we see the legislative mandate, in the European Union, and we know that other markets like the U.S. may be slightly beyond that, in terms of timing. That, of course, is what's causing a lot of, I think, opportunity for disruption here. As soon as you get DMS into these kinds of volumes, there's a requirement for trying to drive the cost of these things down. Our product is targeted to go be in awards that happen in 2022. That is sort of how we backed our way in. In order to be in a car in 2025, those cars typically get awarded in the 2022 timeframe.
For us, we need to be ready to go and showcase our capabilities to tier 1s and OEMs, targeting that kind of timeframe. We are already participating in multiple RFIs and RFQs with this product. We think that where we are right now, we're on track to try to compete for business that gets awarded in 2022.
Okay, good. A couple of questions on Dynavox or, sorry, Pro. The university budget freeze in China, can you say something about the impact from that? What do you see right now?
I don't have the exact numbers, but with the risk of being incorrect, if I still. Take a number that I think is right ballpark. It's probably around maybe a 5% revenue impact on Tobii Pro in the second quarter.
Good guess.
Yeah. That's the order of magnitude, because it is actually a very significant part of China sales for Tobii Pro that has been impacted in the second quarter. Originally, if Chinese government plans would've been according to plan, this budget freeze would never have occurred. It's due to a delay in their approval process. Of course, it's not super easy to have transparency on Chinese budget processes, but there's definitely the expectation on our side that this will be fully resolved in the second half. Hopefully, that would also mean that there is an element of pent-up demand from these universities and actually being able to access these budgets they haven't been able to access in the second quarter.
Okay. Just a final one. I'm just curious about Boardmaker 7, how that is developing.
Boardmaker 7 is, for those who don't know, the latest generation of our special education product in Tobii Dynavox. The Boardmaker product represents approximately 10% of Tobii Dynavox's revenue. It's a software that exists both as an online web platform and as a desktop software, as well as a hybrid solution between the two. To a large extent, it is SaaS-based with recurring revenue, and it's sold to schools, both directly to teachers, but mainly in high volume to school districts. This recurring revenue product has seen very good revenue growth over the past several years. It has faced a particular challenge, and that is that the majority of customers using the web version, the web version has been based on Flash. Flash was decommissioned by web browsers over the past two to three years.
This has forced us at somewhat of a strain, redesign the product to not be dependent on Flash. This is the big part with Boardmaker 7. It's essentially moving the Boardmaker solution from Flash into non-Flash-based product. This is something that we started to migrate customers to around January timeframe and have continued with throughout the year so far. Given that this is happening on a sort of a forced timeline, it's not a super smooth process for us. It is causing a little bit of challenges for us to conduct this. In an ideal world, we would've had longer time to do this migration. It's something we're working through right now, and we are very much looking forward to having all of our customers successful on the new Boardmaker platform towards the end of this year.
Okay, great. Thanks.
Any more questions, Mika?
No, I'm fine. Thanks.
We have a few more from the chat. I think these are probably going to be the last ones. It's related to the DMS offering again and entering to that market. The questions are: when will Tobii DMS be fully certified and ready for the market? The second question is: what type of RFQs are we involved in for Tobii Driver Monitoring? Are those for smaller or larger car manufacturers, premium or mid-class vehicles?
Okay. Maybe I can take one of those. Again, I think we are not ready to sort of share the level of details of exactly what the RFQs are that we are in, but I think it is actually a pretty wide range. Some of them are with tier 1s that are looking for solutions with particular OEM deals in place, and some are directly with the OEMs. We fully expect, of course, that part of the reason for this announcement is for us to be more public about our participation in the space. Whereas over the last couple of years, we've really been focused on trying to get the product to be more mature and also focus on a very small set of partners as we go and refine our product.
We expect that now that we are more open about our ambition, we will have the chance to go and compete for more business as customers who may not have considered that we were going to be in the space now look at us as a potential technology provider as well. The second one, in terms of timing and maybe regulatory or ASPICE certification. Again, this is part of our path. We understand that from an automotive perspective, this is part of the adaptations and changes we have to make on our core technology stack. Some of that certification work is already underway, and we've actually planned with the expectation, again, to be awarded business in 2022 and to be in cars in 2025. We do have a certification pipeline that is paired with our product development to support that kind of timeline.
Thank you. Let's give Daniel Ylberg another try. Hopefully, we've sorted all the IT issues here. No. Seems we can't get him on the line. We apologize for that, Daniel, and hopefully we can get you through next time. That's it from the Q&A.
All right. Thanks everyone for joining this call today. As Henrik Mawby alluded to previously, if you have further questions, never hesitate to reach out. Henrik Mawby is very available, and he's good at funneling questions to us as well. Of course, we are looking forward to seeing you on our next earnings call as well. Thanks and bye for today.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye guys.