Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the presentation Q1 Report 2020 Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode, and after the speaker presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one on your telephone. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today. I'd now like to hand the call over to your speaker today, Thomas Widstrand. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you very much, and welcome everyone to the short description or comments around the first quarter and development for Troax. I will more or less, for those of you who have been around before, follow the normal presentation mode. We have something which is called the presentation of Q1, which you will find under the troax.com webpage. In there, you will find it under the headline Investors, and under Investors, you will find it under Reports for the quarter one. This presentation starts with a brief introduction of Troax, which I will very quickly go through if there are any newcomers to Troax. This presentation just starts with a few pictures showing what we stand for. Namely, that we try to make the world safer, especially within the industrial environment. In that area, we try to improve the safety in other aspects.
After that, you will find a few brief introductory examples of the segments where we are mainly working. First one, which is what we call Machine Guarding, which is approximately 60%-65% of our turnover, here exemplified by a picture from the car industry, which is an important segment for us, but, obviously for the first quarter 2020, was not as important as it used to be in the past. The next one, which is called Warehouse Partitioning, and that's normally around 25%, something like that, of the turnover. As the name implies, our solutions there mainly consist of solutions that aim at making warehouses safe, both for the people who are working there and also, of course, from the purely process point of view. The third one and the smallest one, which is a little bit less than 15% normally.
We're talking about Property Protection, which is quite important for Troax in the northern part of Europe, of course, much smaller than in other parts of the world. As the name implies, it's basically not safety in the same way of protecting people, in the same way you might protect property in the cellar environment where you have your luggage or skis or whatever you have got. Comes automated warehouse, which is something which is growing very much, we try to promote that a little bit. It's actually part both of the Machine Guarding, the products that we use for Machine Guarding, also for the Warehouse Partitioning. This automated warehouse is growing very much and has done so now for a couple of years. It's, of course, driven a lot by the e-commerce.
As you will see, and probably have seen already from the figures from the first quarter, for this specific niche within the segments, we've had a quite good development for this kind of applications. Next page, if you follow it page by page, just explains a little bit the year in brief for Troax, talking about 2019. I won't go through that because you can read it there. It more or less states what I already said about the division on the segments, and you will also see the geographical split, where of course, we are very strong in Europe, regardless if you call it Northern Europe or Continental Europe or whatever. What we're trying to do right now is, of course, to achieve a much better market share both in North America and in the Far East.
Next one shows the sales development long-term, just to show that we should continue to grow. Troax is a growth company, but now in the last two years, it's been a little bit less of growth, mainly hampered, of course, by a decline, not only in automotive but also in other areas. I will come back to this within a few minutes since obviously now we are tampering with a much bigger problem, which is, of course, the effects of the ongoing coronavirus, unfortunately. I'll come back to that. The next one is the financial targets, and just to make a brief introduction to that. We have four targets that we set up as a group to try to fulfill. The first one is talking about organic growth.
Normally then, what we're trying to say is we should have an organic growth which is higher than the market growth. Historically, we've had a market growth of from 4% to 6%, and we've been growing over some time 8% to 10% per year, maybe some years even bigger. This quarter we were growing 4% on sales, which I would say is quite acceptable, bearing in mind the rather turbulent quarter we went through, and actually the order intake was growing with 12%, which actually is quite a good figure, especially from bearing in mind the conditions that we were working with. There has been no acquisition or any further real changes in the group in the first quarter, except that we now, of course, include the figures then also on the sales side from the Japanese distributor that we acquired on the 1st of January.
It doesn't really change the picture, but just for formality, it's part of the group now. We should have an operating margin of 20% or in excess of that, and for the first quarter we reached, let's say, 16% or just about. Normally we have a little bit lower in the first quarter, and hopefully it should improve during the year, even if now we see some clear problems with this going forward, which I said I'll come back to. Last year, we had approximately a little bit short of 20% operating margin. If we should reach 20% or in excess of that also in 2020, then of course we have to do better than 20% in the coming quarters.
Next one is explaining then the net debt is in relation to EBITDA, and we have a target to be below 2.5x, and we are around 1.3x at the end of first quarter. We have, as I call it, quite a stable balance sheet and a stable result development in comparison to the loans that we have or the debt situation that we are in. Finally, we have the target of paying out a dividend of approximately 50%, and we have a proposal of paying out 47% of the net profit of 2019.
We have, as a group, then told our shareholders that we postpone the annual general meeting with approximately two months until 23rd of June, I think it is, where we then intend to keep our AGM, and this is then to give us time, the board, to give more time to evaluate the difficult situation which has come up based on the coronavirus situation. We do think that if we will go through then April, hopefully then coming into May, the board will have a better decision, or the facts to take a better decision for this dividend decision. That's how it looks today. If we then go to the development for the first quarter, the first page that comes along is then what we call then some sort of summary of Q1 2020.
If I should try to summarize it, I can say then that despite the somewhat turbulent environment, I think we have generated a stable development during the quarter, both in orders, sales, and in results, even if, which I will explain before, there has been some, let's say, issues during the quarter. We have reached a higher EBIT and margin in Q1 2020 compared with first quarter 2019. These are mainly due to what we still were possible for us to increase our turnover, and we also had, I would say, rather good cost control despite the situation.
We should also bear in mind that first quarter last year was not a very strong quarter, and we clearly had a negative impact on the volume development in the U.S., which was substantially better in this first quarter, even if it's still not up to the standards where we want it to be. If we then talk more generally about the geographical development, I can say then that despite all the issues, we see stable and good development in all areas. Even if I would like to pinpoint then the U.K. development, where we had maybe a little bit surprisingly, very good development, not only in U.K., but also in several export orders from the U.K., both overseas and by the ports of Europe. This is, of course, quite positive for us when we then compare with last year.
There was an increase then not only of the profitability in absolute terms, but also in earnings per share. Even if it's early days, it's very good, I think, to have a good start of the year, especially bearing in mind that we do expect now much tougher quarters ahead due to the development of the coronavirus. Talking again a little bit on the Folding Guard. We saw some clear improvement in Folding Guard during the Q1, but we still want to point out that on the order side, the U.S., these kind of segments where Folding Guard is mainly working with, we clearly saw then that in March, this was being hit by weaker demand by the customers, and this we expect to continue now also for some time.
Even if we were improving the process both result-wise and, let's say, more operationally, processes in Folding Guard under the Q1, we saw clearly then that the order situation and the sales situation was on the weak side. Commenting on the working capital, it's more or less on expected level, even if we have increased inventory towards the end of the quarter to be able to prepare for probably some negative effect of the coronavirus, meaning that we increased a bit the supply chain purchases in order then to comply with that there could be some disruption of the supply chain deliveries from different suppliers during the coming quarter. We have tried at least to a certain extent, to compensate for that. The investments are proceeding according to plan and are actually going into more or less the finalized phase.
The big one during this quarter was the complete new factory in Italy, north of Milan, which was taken into full operation. It was in principle, started up 1st of January, and after some initial problems, which normally are connected when starting up a full factory, I think our organization there has done a tremendous good job, not only improving on the productivity and the inauguration, so to speak, all the investments we've been doing, but have also been able to keep the factory working during this whole problematic period where all of us know that Italy has been, as you know, at least partly closed in many areas, but we've been managing on a day-by-day basis to keep the factory running. I think this is something I'd like to point out that's quite positive during the period. We talk a few comments on the general marketing situation.
We can say it was considered very stable in January and February, business as usual. It was not really growing. It was showing a tendency like we already saw last year, meaning that customers were highly occupied with what they were doing, so it was really on a high level, but the market was not really growing anymore. Clearly we saw a decrease of the demand and the interest from customers to get quotes during the second half of March, especially. It started a little bit earlier in some countries, but it was clearly recognizable by the last two weeks of March. What you see here in the order development and in the result development is only to a small extent affected by the implications or the consequences of the coronavirus.
We've had some factory closures during Q1, which obviously have had a negative impact on the result, but it has only been for a limited amount of time. Or like in the Chinese case, it's rather small, which means it doesn't have this huge impact on the total group. Talking about this directly, I can then say that the Chinese little factory that we have in Shanghai was closed sometime during January, and for approximately two months, and was opening up at least in a small scale towards the end of March. That was good. We can then see that, so to speak, this loop was coming to an end.
We had the American factory, the old Folding Guard factory, which now also produces Troax products based in Chicago, and that was in principle closed 21st of March, if I remember correctly, based on clear guidelines or instructions from the governor of the state of Illinois, where we are operative. Even if the Chinese factory now has started again, the American one is starting to get a little bit worked on. In principle, the guidelines and instructions from the governor there is still that we should maintain this closed until at least the end of April. We are a little bit waiting further instructions for how to do it in May.
The U.K. factory, which also is a rather small one from a group perspective, was closed here during a certain period of time and is expected to be closed also at least until the end of April, probably a little bit longer based on the situation in the U.K. The main production plant, besides the Italian one, which is the Swedish one, has been more or less operative in a more or less normal way during the complete period that we are talking about. No real effect there. Talk about the segments. The automotive is continuing to be a weak segment, just as has been in the last, you can say, two years.
There has been, and I think still are, some indications that the automotive will, at a certain step, come back and start to invest further, which will help us and probably some others as well. Due to the COVID or the coronavirus, we do expect that the possible startup of further investments will be further delayed, not changed or not put in a stop box or anything like that, but probably delayed for some time further due to these problems caused by the coronavirus.
On the other hand, you can then say that the positive development we've had in this quarter comes then from the elevator and from the automated warehouse business, as you are well aware of, is driven mainly from the e-commerce business one way or another, and is, I think despite of the COVID development, there will be continuous investments in this area, which you also saw during the first quarter. I'm sure there will be some ups and downs for this type of development.
We were lucky in the first quarter to get a number of these projects as orders, which means that especially for the main production unit in Sweden, in Mjölby, as the quarter was ending, we had actually quite a good order backlog, which to a certain extent, we think can offset the troublesome times that we are expecting for quarter two and quarter three, at least from a manufacturing point of view. As a conclusion of what I already said, we do expect and based on that customers are either sitting at home, they are postponing projects, or they are at least not deciding something, which are not inevitable that they have to do. We are therefore experiencing and we are expecting a clearly decreased demand in quarter two and probably also in quarter three.
It depends on, of course, as you all know, how fast the market will pick up. We can clearly say that definitely for quarter two and most probably for quarter three, we expect a significant lowering of the orders from the customers. If you go to the next page, you will find a summary of the financial highlights. I think you've read this. I will very briefly go through it, saying again, that from the order side, it was very positive. We had a 12% increase of orders, which is very good for us, and based on, as I said, that we have some backlog that we could turn into invoicing in the next coming months. Sales were increasing with 4%.
We had a slight increase of the gross margin. I think that's based on that we had a slight increase of the turnover and no good cost control on many items. It could actually have been even better then if the volumes produced in the factories not have been affected by this closure, where they explained, especially in China, U.K., and Poland during the quarter. I think you're seeing from that level, it is quite an okay margin. The operating profit then is higher last year, and hence also the margin is higher as well as the profit after tax. Net debt compared to EBITDA is on the same level, 1.3x, and no changes there. I think those are the main ones that are really worth noting for the first quarter. Going to the next one, which is called the regional development, order intake, and sales.
You will find more detailed specification of the order intake and the sales invoice of the different regions that we report. You will see then that is from a order intake point of view, quite a stable development, I would say, in the Continental Europe and Nordic region, but a very good development in the quarter than in United Kingdom. Despite that the market there is not booming, it has the same development, I would say that other European countries which are hampered by the COVID. We also have a good development in North America, mainly driven by the Troax brand, who has had a continuous good development also in the first quarter, and it was a little bit weaker then for Folding Guard as I explained before.
On the new markets we've seen, and it's maybe a little bit too early days to say something conclusive, but we do see a little bit better activity, and we do see clearly a much better performance from our own organization, I would say, especially in China, based on the actions that we were doing during last year. I'm sure also here we go a little bit up and down, but I have full faith in that new markets should, step by step, go to higher levels as we proceed quarter by quarter. In total then, we've had 12% increase of orders, which is a quite good figure, I think, especially bearing in mind the troublesome period that was, especially during the last months of the quarter. Going to sales, you will see not really maybe the same development.
You will see them in Continental Europe, had a quite a good development in sales. Actually, it was a minus then in the Nordic region, whereas in U.K., we've had a very good increase of the order intake, didn't have the same development on the sales side. Obviously, we can say then that probably U.K. would have a much improved sales figure in the coming quarter. Then on North America, you could also see there that the good order intake in the first quarter didn't really manifest so much in a high invoice sales. That is still yet to come. You also see the same in new markets. You can say then that a lot of the good order intake that we had in different data still should be invoiced in the quarter two mainly, and a little bit also in quarter three.
We then try to do some conclusion on the next page, which is a little bit repeating what was said before. We may say something like this, that there was a substantial weaker activity in the market towards the end of the first quarter. As I said before, it was quite okay, January and February. We expect this negative short-term trend, unfortunately, to continue, especially in the second quarter. We've had a continued low demand from the automotive industry in this quarter, which has been offset by the good development in the automated warehouse business and actually more than that. To repeat myself, we think that the possible demand or increase of demand that we soon later are expecting from the automotive industry, it will still come, but I do see now that it's been further postponed of the problems with the coronavirus.
Talking briefly then in summary of the U.S. operations, the Troax, Inc. is continuing to develop very well, and the formula was improving compared with the same quarter last year, but we do need some further increase in volumes to get up to the level where we want it to be. Very good and stable development in all our European operations. The new factory in Italy was quite successfully sorted out, and we've had some extra cost, both in Q4 and then we had exactly also in Q1, but we don't want to put that up as anything extraordinary. Some of the costs that we had in Q1 was, for instance, some of the cost for the rent of two premises, and that has faded away after the first quarter.
I think we can see that from a cost point of view, that is quite under control, even if we expect, of course, like I wrote in my comments also, that unfortunately, the bottleneck of the factory in Italy won't be the production capacity short-term, it will be the demand because Italy is one of the countries, obviously, that has been hit, of course, by the lowering demand from customers. I mention also next bullet, same thing which I said before. The factories in U.K. and United States was in principle closed from sometime during the end of March, and they will at least be closed until the end of April. The small Chinese operations have resumed operation in March after having been closed for approximately two months.
I think those were the main conclusions then of the first quarter, and then follows a number of presentations of the growth factors, which really still have not really changed for us. If anything, we can see that with these problems of Coronavirus, wherever it will take us from a human point of view or social point of view, but from optimization point of view, we can do see that, if anything, this puts even higher pressure than I think on many customers to continue the optimization in order to make the factories not so reliable, so to speak, on human workforces. This, in principle, is good for us, even if, of course, we don't want this to be caused by any negative effect of the Coronavirus, this is obvious. In this niche market, we are the market leader.
We expect we have some 25% of the European market, and maybe we are close to some 15% worldwide. Where we take market shares on is a lot, especially when you come to the southern part of Europe, you come to U.S. and you come to the Far East, is what we take, of course, a lot of market share from small local competitors. Whether we call them for blacksmiths or not, it's really relevant to our small local competitors. I'm very happy to say that development is still continuing, that we can see then that customers are demanding a more higher level of safety. Of course, Troax and its professional competitors can supply that to these kind of customers, which means that the local suppliers are fading out still step by step even more. We try to make assessment of the competitive situation.
You will find it also in our webpage, our homepage, which we have included. It's our best assessment, but it's really just an assessment. There are no official figures which are really supporting this. You have to take it as it is. Next one shows our production units, and I've already told about that. Even if we had some problems then during March, and it's obviously continuing, as I already said, during April, I think we're still very good geared now for a possible increase of volumes, which will come in sooner or later. Maybe now 2020 will be, of course, a problematic year without giving any figures. I am very confident over that. Over time, these general trends that we are working with will help our production units to increase the volumes.
We have a very good sales situation now with substantial increase of capacity in this main unit in Sweden. We have a completely new unit in Italy, and we also during the year done some improvement in the American factory. We have a quite good base for the future development. For a safer tomorrow, we have some examples then of what we are doing and what we're focusing on is a lot, of course, on the environmental issues. I've talked partly about this before, but just as one little example, the new factory then in Italy is equipped with solar panels, and that will approximately cover 60% of the energy consumption of that new factory already from this summer, we think. It's a day-to-day work to reduce the total energy consumption, which is one of the major factors that we're working with.
We had some explanation on the Troax Innovation Center, which is where we try to do our development. You see that on the next page, which is called a Uni-bracket, which is a quite unique kind of bracket, which then really helps for different kind of applications within the warehouse business. Our products are certified or the processes and some part of the product are certified by the TÜV Rheinland, meaning that we give the customer the reassurance that it's not only Troax who's saying that the product is following a certain procedure. We are really then making sure that a reliable third party can then certify it and our products are following this procedure, we think this is quite good for our customers. All right. I think this concludes then the presentation from my side.
I'll try to be prepared now for your questions. Please, if you would allow then the listeners to ask the questions.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We'll now begin the question and answer session. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel that request, press the hash key. Once again, that is star one. We have one question come through already. Two questions, one moment. First question comes from Kenneth Toll. Please ask your question.
Yeah, thank you. I was wondering a little bit, I was surprised by the strong order intake. Also, as we enter Q2 now, how big is the order book? Because I guess that some of the orders you got in Q1, you managed to deliver in Q1. How much sales do you have left in your order book as we enter Q2?
That's a good question, Kenneth. We don't give out exactly the order book in the figures, but I can say that most of these orders that we got during the first quarter, which you might explain as a little bit of a project order, I don't like to take the word extraordinary in my mouth, but you understand what I mean. The absolute chunk of those are for deliveries in quarter two, have not really been delivered in quarter one, and I think there are some parts still remaining for deliveries in quarter three also.
Okay.
A big part of it is coming quarter two. Compared with our normal quarters, we have, especially for the Swedish manufacturing plant, we have an order book, which is just to give you a sense of it's not double the size of what it normally is, but it's approximately 50% higher than what it normally is at this time of the year.
Okay. Amazing. Also, you talk a lot about factories being closed and some operational and so on. Where you have open factories, so to say, do you experience a lot of hassle, a lot of disturbances and extra costs and so on for logistics and running the operations?
We have experienced some of that, yes, Kenneth. I wouldn't say that they are substantial, but they are there both in case of freight costs to get some material into the factories in time and obviously to deliver to customers. We've also experienced, of course, some turbulence because people have been sick, and you have to have other people and all these things. We've had some extra costs, yes, but I wouldn't like to say that these are really substantial costs. During Q2, you will probably notice some of it in the gross margin that's probably inevitable. In Q1, you haven't had too much of that. Some of it, especially in the Italian one, you would have seen it. The total for the group is not insignificant money for Q1.
Also, your balance sheet remains strong, and a lot of your CapEx needs have now come down significantly. I was wondering, now when there is turbulent times, over the years, you have said that you might be interested in acquiring a competitor or so on.
Right.
Do you think those opportunities might open up now, and would you dare to act in such a marketing environment in such a case?
To answer your first question, if I think that these competitors or if there will be more possibilities for the M&A openings, I can clearly say yes. I think there clearly will be more openings because some of our competitors or some of the interested companies that we are interested in looking into, we'll probably see that there will be trouble sometimes ahead, and probably will be interesting to discuss. I clearly see that coming up.
Whether it will be this month or next year, we don't know. I would think that it will come up. To answer your question, yes, we are of course following this from, not maybe daily, but on a very close basis. Of course, we have to be careful since we don't want to end up in a situation where we make a rather big acquisition and then find ourselves that the market is going down in such a way that we might have our own liquidity problems. We have to find-
a balance, and that's really why also the board is, of course, postponing a little bit in the AGM in order to see if we can find some tendencies which we can rely on.
Otherwise, we have to take it case by case. We are still open to do acquisition. Of course, we will look very closely not to endanger the total operations and bearing in mind that what we today see with COVID might not be the worst situation, coming in the coming months.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Okay. Thank you very much. I have another question here from Daniel Lindkvist. Please ask your question.
Yeah. Hi, Thomas. Just a few short questions. You touched upon the gross margin with Kenneth, but if we look at it, would you say that it's mainly factory shutdowns, or is there also product mix effects and price pressure in the quite pressured gross margin this quarter?
Yeah. We haven't seen actually during the first quarter any major effects worth mentioning, so to speak, on the pricing side. I can say that during the first quarter it was more stable there, so we can more or less take that out of the equation. There were a little bit of a negative product mix side. I wouldn't like to say that that was a big one, but if there was anything, it was a little bit on the negative side. It could have been better if the product mix would have been slightly different. Nothing extraordinary. Nothing to let's say that you really want to pinpoint to explain this. I would say that from my point of view, I see then that the factories it's working at let's say more optimal level should have had a little bit more volume than during especially March.
That I would say was the major, if anything, influencer of that margin and could have been slightly higher.
Okay. That means basically that for the Q2, we will have pressure as well then from the closures in U.K. and U.S.?
Yes, that is correct.
Just looking further down the income statement on the sales costs. They're popping up as a bit high in this quarter. Could you elaborate on those?
The sales cost has, of course, been influenced then by the very small acquisitions we did last year or beginning of this year, meaning the Japanese operation, and we also then included our Indian operations, which previously was also working as a distributor. If you take away that hypothetically, and you also take away a little bit, we've increased a little bit the accrual and for bad debt, not that they have happened, but we're just taking some precaution because we noticed then that people in general are increasing the payment days at this very moment or at the end of the quarter. If you take away those influences, the sales costs were on the same level as last year, and when you compare apple to apple.
Of course, under the present circumstances, we are going to be very cautious until we see how things are developing to further increase the sales cost. We're also very, let's say, cautious not to do anything stupid because the main part of the cost, of course, in the sales cost are our salespeople, whether they are outside salespeople or inside salespeople. Personally, they are very good and very important for this group. They've been with us generally for many years, and we've tried to educate them step by step. We will try to keep them as long as possible. Of course, if the worst will come to worst, we will also look into cost reductions in those areas.
Okay, perfect. Just on the e-commerce orders, you had a few, if I understand correctly, in the quarter. Were they from the same customers, or was there a split among many customers?
There were several customers. We had three, four, which were standing out as bigger than normal, or at least not the sizes that we get every quarter. They came from different sources, I can say.
Okay. Perfect. Just finally, with the blacksmiths that you often talk about as competitors in the local markets, what kind of shape are those in? Do they survive in this environment, or will you have a bigger market once this opens up?
It's a very good question, Daniel. It's very difficult to give you a straight and honest answer, which include all of these blacksmiths that we see all over the place. I would say generally that My gut feeling, and you have to take it as that is, that the smaller ones will clearly have more problems during this problematic period. There's clearly opportunity for Troax, as well as Troax competitors, of course, to take market share, and based on that some of these smaller local competitors will have problems.
Yeah. It seems natural with that kind of-
It's quite logically, naturally should be.
Yeah. Perfect. Thanks, Thomas.
Thank you. We have a question from Johan Hultén. Sorry, I'm not going to pronounce this correctly. Johan Hultén. Please ask your question.
Thank you. Hi, Thomas.
Hi, Johan.
Just a question on the good orders you had in, well, it was mainly U.K., North America, and new markets. Just wondering if you can deliver on those from the Hillerstorp factory, or if you will be limited by any way of the factories that are closed down now, and if that would be prolonged?
We don't see today that these orders that we have got will have any problem being delivered from mainly the Hillerstorp factory. We have delivery schedules there, which are all confirmed, et cetera. It should all be possible to do. However, of course, with the present situation, we of course assume then that the confirmed deliveries from our sub-suppliers will continue to come in according to plan. That is, of course, one source of a bit uncertainty. I think that these deliveries will be, at least on an overall basis, be possible to deliver according to plan.
Mm. does that go even for the regular business in the U.K. and in the U.S. where you have closed down the factory? Will you be able to switch to deliveries from Hillerstorp instead, or will you have some issues here before you open up?
In those areas, we will have some issues, but we are allowed, according to, for instance, the government in the U.S., to deliver to some of these, what is called critical companies from a government point of view. It's not entirely closed, and we can do something there, and that means then that we can do in good cooperation with customers who, of course, stand in the same situation, postpone in some cases then, deliveries. I'm not talking about these huge project orders. I'm now talking about the day-to-day business. There will clearly be a lot lower volume produced in these kind of production facilities, especially during April. I think from a customer point of view, we won't upset so many customers because of this.
As far as I know, there will be a limited number of people who will be, let's say, where the orders will be postponed in such a way where they will be hit negatively.
Okay. Great. Sounds good. Thank you.
You're welcome.
There are no further questions at this time. Please continue.
Thank you very much. I appreciate both your listening in and, of course, to your questions. I appreciate your interest, and I look forward to talk to you again. I think there will be a little more maybe gloomy situation than from a figures point of view, but let's see how it goes. We are only into April yet, and a lot of things can happen. Thank you again, and talk to you then. It will be then in August. Bye-bye.
That does conclude your conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.