Hello, welcome to the Troax Group AB Q2 report for 2023. My name is Jess, I'll be your coordinator for today's event. For the duration of the call, your lines will be on listen-only. However, there will be the opportunity to ask questions. This can be done by pressing star one on your telephone keypad to register your question at any time. If at any point you require assistance, please press star zero, you'll be connected to an operator. I will now hand over to your host, Thomas Widstrand, to begin today's call. Thank you.
Thank you very much for listening in. I'm very pleased then to be able to talk to you today about the Q2 development of the Troax Group. As usual, for those who I've been here with before, we have already put on our homepage a report, which you might find under the Investor headline, and under reports, that you will find today's date, and then you will find under the structure of the review that I will take on in the coming 30 or 45 minutes. You will be able to follow, even if you don't have access to our webpage. That's no basic problem.
I'll start directly by introducing, for those of you who haven't been around before, that what Troax does is, of course, safety solutions, for people in the industry or in other places. What we try to do, and what you will see on this page, which comes more or less i n the top of this presentation is that we try to make then the environment safe and sound on solid ground for the customers. That's basically what we are doing. Short introduction, otherwise, to the company, we are working in three different product segments, whereas the biggest one is approximately 60%, called machine guarding.
As you can see from this picture, which we've shown now a number of times, you see here that, what we try to do is to divide and the possible hazardous area, which could be around a robot or some other moving object, which is heavy enough to hurt someone, by then, installing either with ourselves or if the customer is installing these kinds of hard physical fences, then which makes any possible object that is falling out or being kicked out, all those all dangerous [inaudible], since it will be caught by these fences.
Next one, next page, we call it the warehouse partitioning. Next product segment, it's approximately 30% and as you can see from the picture to the right, this is more the traditional warehousing where you have people not running around, but they're actually moving about in some sort of forklift truck. What we then actually are supplying are then the shelves for these pallet racks, and it could be the back racking system, and the pallets from falling down on the people who are working there.
It could be the dividers that you see to the right, dividing then the forklift truck with the people. Later, I'll talk to you about the automated warehouse, which is an automated version of this. You also have a lot of more the machine guarding which are introduced, then, where you have more automation in the warehouses.
I go to the next one, which is called property protection. It's not safety in the sense that it will protect people from hazardous material. It's more to protect them from burglary or theft. You have this in multi-story buildings, of course, normally in the cellars. These are 10% approximately of our turnover. As you can see from the picture, this is then clearly then things that yo u and I , we like to use them in different parts of the season, but not every time. It could be bicycles, skis, luggage, or whatever you want to have in this kind of cages that are then used for keeping the properties in.
I go to the next page, and for those of you who are following me and I will then briefly talk a little bit about the automated warehouse. We have then, as we say here, safety in all levels, and this is, I would say, maybe it's not a typical example because it's a bit of an advanced system, which is then installed in this specific case. You see here, we have these pallet racks, and we have huge then, you can see, but we have huge, call it robot systems or different conveyors.
It's picking then material, and then it's being in an automated way, brought down to some sort of picking and packing place, where normally then in an automated way also, it's being done, you throw the plastic around it, the wrap around, and then after it goes on a fixed pallet, and one way or another, to transport media, like a truck, that will take it then to the end customer, which could be anything from, you know, someone who's selling clothes to foodstuff or something in between, spare and what have you. This is something which been growing substantially over the last couple of years, until, I would say then, the beginning of 2022.
We had a fantastic organic growth in this let's call it sub-segment during 2020 and 2021, and then it stopped during 2022 because these customers. These major international customers, we talk about five, eight big ones. They had actually over-invested and based on the big demand that was during the COVID period, and after the COVID period was over, I think it's very clear then that these kind of customers need now to see the demand coming back so that it will more further reinvestments. We do think that this is coming, but it's not coming during 2023. Our indication is that it will start in a small scale during 2024, and maybe reach full scale again during 2025.
That's the main reason then why we, as a growth company, doesn't show growth now during 2022 and 2023 but b ehind the automated warehouse influence, we do have, that the core of our traditional customer segments and products, they are still growing, perhaps at the moment, not at fantastic figures, but it nevertheless is growing. If you look a few years back and compare it with today, you see then that we still have an organic growth, but it was distorted during 2020 and 2021 with a, let's call it, too big organic growth. Now I would say that you have the other side of the coin, that we actually done decreasing in orders short term.
Going to the next page, you will see a little bit the sales per region. This is for 2022. I won't go through this in detail with you, but you see, of course, then that still we are quite depending on Europe. Our target is, of course, long term to grow in, especially in North America and in new markets, which could be anything from China to Japan to, you know, wherever in Asia Pacific over time.
Going to the next, it says the year in brief, and this is more the long-term development. You will see then that the figures indicate that we are a growth company, even if 2022 and 2023 will, or rather 2023 will not be a growth from this point of view. We are approximately 3x bigger than our biggest competitor. We are in 45 countries. We've had, during a number of years, a compounded annual growth of, depending on what kind of years you talk about, but somewhere between 8%-10%, or in more positive scenario, we've been exceeding 10% in organic growth. There's no reason why we shouldn't come back to that when then this automated warehouse impact then has faded out, which is more or less doing it as we speak.
Financial targets is the next page. We have not set a target directly in figures on sales growth, but we should grow them more than the market. We normally take market share every year, one way or another. Since we're saying then that the market is growing over a business cycle with some 4%-6% per year, we think then that the historical high growth trend are not a bad indication what is possible to achieve going forward, assuming then, of course, that there is no big lack of demand in the market or, or the financial conditions are very negative.
If you look at the actual to the right, it's actually so that, for this year, we have an organic decrease of 11%, and this is not of course, offset by a small increase of the M&A activities, meaning then that it's only 1% of the acquired companies that has a positive effect this year. We have a target of having an operating margin in excess of 20%, we've in the last years, just so that to, to become the EBITDA margin, after the first half year, we are around 19%, which I think is not a bad achievement, seeing the fact then that we are still lacking some volume in our manufacturing units. Of course, it's not yet up to the target, so we are still, of course, aiming for reaching and exceeding this 20% as soon as we can.
Regarding the capital structure, we are in a very good position, since the net debt in relation to the EBITDA is only 0.7 at the moment or per end of June, which means that we are in an excellent position then to do further acquisitions if we find the right one. I must stress, which I've done several times before, that for us, it's more a problem to find the right acquisition target than to finance it under normal circumstances.
Dividend policy, we don't need to discuss right now. If I do a little bit summary, which is the next page for Q2, which you can afterwards put some questions to me about, I think that Q2 was characterized by a continuation of the slower activity from the automated warehouse customers, which started already then, let's say, one year ago. Positive is and the rest of the market or rest of the segments, we continue to have good activity levels. We are not really complaining at all over the development in our other customer segments, and we've seen a continuation of the improvement of orders within the automotive sector.
For some of you remember that I talked about in the last year that we saw, quite a good increase then of requests for quotes, and I think this year we've seen really an improvement of orders, both from North America and especially, I would say, from Europe. Asia Pacific is still, I would say, on low level. Steel price has been stable or even reducing during quarter two so this problem, what we have had during most of last year with steel prices going up and we are introducing higher prices to customers, we have not had this so far this year, and it looks like it's quite stable. Even, of course, you never know what can happen, but so far it seems stable.
We called it then a positive EBITA result, a margin in quarter two. I would say then, as I started with to say before that in light of the volume situation, we think then that this was quite okay. As the volume produced in Q2 was lower, all the obvious reasons then that the invoicing for the automated warehouse was substantially lower than, for instance, comparing with quarter two last year. The gross margin, which was a little bit low, I would say, during last year because of the delay, so speaking, getting the price increases into our result account coming f rom the increased steel prices last year and also to approach our targeted levels.
It's still, of course, somewhat hampered by the lower volume, but nevertheless, I would say that we are not far away from where we would like to be. Our reasonable sales levels also during Q2 in Nordic region and North America, whereas Great Britain was, of course, very negatively influenced by the huge projects which were invoiced in Q2 last year. This year, they haven't had, or we haven't had these kind of projects at all. Obviously then you get quite negative figures from a sales point of view. I'll come back a little bit to the regional development later. Earnings per share, then a little bit lower, even if the operating margin is higher, but in absolute figures, of course, it's lower.
Because that the interest rates are highest, and that's also something, of course, we are working with. We are trying to reduce the working capital, and, we've boosted, especially the inventory levels, to balance the lower demand, especially with the automated warehouse, which means that the cash flow was actually quite strong in the quarter. We have more to do in the inventory level, but I think we've taken the big chunk out of what was, so to speak, remained to be done because of the low demand in automated warehouse.
Going to Poland, Natom L ogistic, which was bought a couple of years ago. This quarter, same development as last one, they've been negatively influenced by the lower activity in automated warehouse customers. On the other hand, the small acquisition we've done in Spain, called Claitec, and also in Sweden, called Cykelrum, they have continued to develop well, both in Q1 and continuing now in Q2. Of course, these are smaller figures, so we won't really influence the overall figure that much.
In the quarter, we continued to the building work for yet another expansion of our facilities in Hillerstorp, Sweden. Still our main manufacturing units, and we are preparing them for roughly 5,000-meter expansion. When the time is right, we will then have more space to put in more manufacturing machines as the demand so increase.
During the quarter, we have also introduced then what we think is a very interesting new development called Troax Panel Detection, that has a possibility then to further enhance the safety levels, the environment, manufacturing environments. I have two slides for this a little bit later. I will come back to you about this, if you bear with me for a couple of minutes.
Going to the financial highlights, I think you read this before. Unfortunately, then the order intake is a little bit weaker than last year because of this automated warehouse, but on the margin side, as you see, we have substantially improved the margin compared with last year, and we are starting to reach now the target level, as I say. This means that despite then the volume decrease, the EBITDA is not far away from where we were last year, so we've increased the margin from 18% to 19%.
That means, of course, then that it's coming mainly from the increase of gross profit and the gross margin. If you look more to the right, you see then that the 12 months rolling, which is still at the last column, we are at around SEK 260 million in order intake, and I get that. That's somewhere where we are at the moment, because most of the influence now of the big orders from automated warehouse are now gone from our figures, both in orders and also in sales invoice. This shows probably, reasonably well now where we are, at some sort of baseline, by the end of June.
Next one is this region development, which I was briefly referring to before. You can see then on the order intake, on the three- month comparison figure that the European regions are, from an order point of view, are a little bit lower, but not too far away, whereas in North America, which still enjoyed, some good orders from automated warehouse, last year, are of course, then reducing a bit. On the sales invoice, which is further lower on this page, you see similar development, except then that United Kingdom than last year had a number of projects being invoiced.
So, you compare them with a substantially higher figure, that's why you get a substantially lower percentage up here, which, of course, influences the total figure in a negative way. We talk about total intake, 10% lower this year and on sales, 20%.
Going to some conclusions, we've continued on to get several important orders in all segments in the quarter. Also, in the automated warehouse, where we see that small and medium-sized customers are starting to improve the activity level, and that's, in my thinking, very good, because that means then that the positive view we have over the more long-term activity in this segment is true, then it should continue to increase. We're quite positive over this segment, medium term a gain.
The remaining part of 2023, and probably the beginning of 2024, we'll not see a major impact from, from activity within this segment. The big, let's say, the best development we had in the quarter was customers within machine guarding, and which generally is a lot of the core of our business, and it's very positive that it's continuing.
Continued positive development and result despite under the lower volumes, I've already explained. We see then no signs of any major decreases in the market as per end of June. I mean, you and I will, of course, look at the papers, and many people expect some sort of reduction in demand, and we'll see about this. Until the end of June, to repeat myself, we didn't see any major decreases at all in activity level in demand.
The investments in Natom, I mean, the Polish manufacturing is more or less finished. We are still doing some movement of an old factory, which we are trying to substantially reduce activity into the new one that we have outside of Poznań, and this is still ongoing. The investments otherwise from a machine point of view is more or less finished. Integration otherwise of the small newcomers I was referring to before, is ongoing in a positive way. Regarding the total development, we see that as positive, even, of course, if you look at the overall figure, the demand from automated warehouse was weak, and that, of course, had a negative impact on the total figure.
Going to the next page, I then go away a little bit from the quarterly figures. Just for those who have maybe not followed exactly why the growth factors then are influencing us in a positive way, it is still so, of course, then what is extremely important for us is that we increase the industrial automation in general, meaning increased robotization or automatization in general terms, and that certainly will continue.
We get maybe some sort of reduction in demand around the corner, hypothetically, this sort of increase will continue because companies want to increase their efficiency and thereby, of course, increasing their own possibility to be competitive. The other one, which right now, is not so good, is the growth in e-commerce, which is, of course, then driving the demand for what we call automated warehouse. I've already explained that this is, of course, then short term, not so very good, but medium term, I'm quite positive over this.
There are also other positive things influencing, but these two are the two really big ones. On top of this, of course, you have the onshoring of manufacturing, regardless of if it is to North America or to Europe, which is somewhat positive, even if it should not be exaggerated. Then, of course, the bigger safety awareness and regulation, which is coming step by step in different regions, is having a positive impact. More that people understand, and that safety is important, and does not neglect it. It's not so that the stricter regulations suddenly increase, the potential demand for us, or the activity level, but it, of course, makes people aware, and that's something which long-term is very positive.
Short summary of the production units are shown in the next page, we have the main units is in Sweden, in the southern part of Sweden. We have a, a reasonable capacity utilization, and we are now preparing them for the next machine investment, but we will of course wait until demand picks up a little bit. We have a smaller one in U.K. We have a smaller one in China, which actually is more of a satellite to the Swedish one. Very good one in Italy, which was just invested in from a greenfield two to three years ago, is it, I believe. We have one in Chicago, which over time will not be sufficient for our needs, so we have to look into to do some further investment in the U.S. since we are growing there.
We have Poland, which we bought a couple of years ago, where mainly they have production of shelves and dividers and not, not at all really these mesh panels and machine guarding products that otherwise is the, let's call it, the old core of Troax. In the Troax Group, we have a number of brands, but it's of course, so that, we give the best solution for the customers based on what they are aiming for. The real brands that we're working with are really Troax and Satech and Folding Guard. The other ones ar more the same product brands which could be used technically in our, of the distribution channels that, we are using.
Going to a little bit further, I put in a little bit ad here about things. We are not only the biggest one in our little niche, we also have been around longest. We've been around since 1955, and we do intend to continue to do so. We focus a lot on, of course, the sustainability, the energy consumption, which of course, is hurting us with the energy cost at the moment. The real target for us is, of course, increase the recycled steel in our products. Quite important and from CO2 point of view, but there are, of course, also other advantages by increasing the recycled steel. You can read a bit about more what we do on this page or on the home page. I would like to point out that these are perhaps the most important things that we do at the moment.
Our R&D center, the Safety Center, are doing a lot of the work on the, of course, on the R&D side. We are certified by TÜV Rheinland, which means then that the customers don't have to worry so much that we are telling them things we know are not correct. There is someone who is checking us as well, which is good for the customer, and we know that will have a good impact. In other words, you can say we are protecting people, property, and processes.
That brings me to a little bit, this Panel Detection, which is actually what we think a very good product development, where we can automatically monitor the panels which are included in the cell. That means then that if you take the next page, you see here is the drawing o f a cell. There is, of course, a potential risk that someone, during a maintenance project or something else, is removing then a panel or part of a cell. This is, of course, not very good from a safety point of view. It means that the person who is passing could theoretically or maybe also practically, in the worst of cases, be hurt then because someone has forgotten to put back the panel.
This simple system that we have developed that is quite clever done. It means then that we, by signaling down that a panel is missing, then this could either just be signal as an information to the operator, or it could be connected to a robot. For instance, then that the robot will not get started, if not the current, which is going through then the whole cell is not broken. If it's broken, then that means there's a problem, and then someone should review it before you can start the production.
We should take the next one. This is another example of our philosophy, that the customers should sleep well at the nighttime and should have the highest safety standard. This is really reducing the risk. We've applied for patent for this, and it's definitely the first of its kind. That's something which means then that the customers who are quite oriented to good, good safety now have a higher level to go to, assuming, of course, that they want to have, continue to protect their people in the best possible way that they can. Because these inventions were not around before, so we are, as I said, the first of its kind at the moment.
Good. I'm starting to round off. We are the original, and we try to say that safety equals Troax. With this, I'd like to just end my little presentation and give the words for you out there, and I'll be prepared to answer any questions you've got, hopefully. Please go on with the questions on the Q&A. Thank you.
If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Please ensure your line is unmuted locally, as you'll be advised when to ask your question. So once again, that's star 1 if you would like to ask a question. The first question comes from the line of Gustav Berneblad from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon, Thomas, it's Gustav here from Nordea.
Hi, Gustav.
Hi, I guess my first question here is regarding the orders. I think it was quite positive commentary in the report regarding demand, and you are saying that you're seeing increased interest from especially automotive in Europe and North America. How should we interpret this? Is this increase in order something that we have already seen now in Q2, or should we interpret it as it is likely an uptick in the coming quarters?
From an order point of view, you, you should see then that there has been an increase of orders in Q2 compared with Q1 and earlier quarters. What happens in Q3 and Q4, we can, you know, primarily only speculating. In my mind, it's of course, a good sign that this important segment for us or customer group for us is increasing its investment, because we've been waiting a long time for them to really take off, and hopefully this will continue. Again, we don't have the facts yet.
Yeah, okay. Then I guess in terms of the margin, given sort of the same volumes, as you have today, is it possible to drive the margin expansion, even further? Would you say that to exceed the level you are today, do you need that extra volumes?
I t will be easier, of course, if you get the extra volume. To answer your direct questions, no, we can drive the volumes even further. We have further, let's say, improvement, project going on in Europe. We still have a few units who could do better. Everything else equal, we still have a potential to come. On the other side, the positive side, so to speak, on the 40%, despite the fact that, of course, we would like to have a bit more volume to help us through that.
What is the sort of the factor that you can adjust the most? Is it, sort of, wages or cutting down on personnel ?
It's the efficiency in the still in a few manufacturing units, not all. It's basically, you could say it's personnel, if I'm really blunt, but it's not only personnel, there are other things as well.
Okay, perfect. Then maybe on a CapEx level here, I think in H1, it's been rather on the lower side, if we compare t o last year.
Yeah.
First, is, is it fair to assume that H2 is likely to be on a similar level? Then also for 2024, should we expect that the CapEx level should be more closer towards 2022, then?
Yes, I think 2023 right now is a little bit on the lower side, as we do not see any increase of volumes, which obviously means that we are the plans that we still have to continue with CapEx. They are coming a little bit later. Yes, you're right, that the rest of the year will probably be on the lower side. I think next year we have a few investments coming in, so they will probably be a little bit higher, but not as high as it was here when we did the bigger investment plans here during, original 2021, 2022 .
Oh, okay. Perfect. The last one on M&A here, and you touched upon it a little bit, but would you say that it's hard for buyers and sellers to meet, sort of, in the price negotiations ?
That's a good question because it is a bit difficult, yes. Half a year ago, one year ago, the price difference was more or less, much more difficult to come over. Right now, I would say it's, there is a possibility to achieve a mutual consent between seller and buyer. It's much more positive now, to be honest. We need to have facts, and that means that you have to have sign a contract, and until then, everything is just speculation.
All right, perfect. That's all for me. Thank you.
Thanks, Gustav.
The next question comes from the line of Anna Widström from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.
Hi, Thomas. Hope you're well. It's Anna here from Handelsbanken.
Hello, Anna, nice to hear you.
My first question is regarding the capacity reductions, which are helping to reduce costs in North America and Poland. In what stage would you say that you are currently? Meaning, should we expect some further reductions going forward?
Yeah, there will be some further reduction during Q3. I can't give you any figure, but there will be some further reduction in Q... In both places.
Okay, that's perfect. Thank you. My second question is, have you seen any trends during the quarter, meaning, differences in the first month compared to the last one?
Sorry, could you repeat? I lost you there a bit, Anna.
Have you noted any shift in trends during the quarter? Meaning you've-
Ah.
-seen differences in the last month in comparing to the first month?
No, it's been rather, I would say, similar to what we've seen already during 2023. A little bit lower activity than, of course, coming from mainly automated warehouse. The other type of customer segments or product segments are ongoing and so forth, ongoing pace, which is still positive, albeit not any impressive figures. Not any major shifts within the quarter, so far.
Okay. Have you seen any trends because you mentioned in the report that you have had some easing in some of the costs, which have been helping margins a bit?
Yeah.
Which trends have you been seeing in your different cost segments, the biggest ones?
Well, we have, since we've already done some cost reduction during this year, we've seen some reduction in, on the salary part, wages and salary. We've seen negative influence, of course, on everything connected with energy, if you compare with last year, like electricity and gas and what have you. We've also seen some reduction, I would say, in Q2 on the, let's call it, the general inflationary pressures, even if the wages and salary went up.
I would say then that the increases we saw, especially during the second half year of 2022, in everything from, you know, spares to maintenance and what have you, that has been more or less not subdued, but it's stopped to at least increase as it used to during last year.
Those are all positive things we've seen during, at least Q2.
Okay, perfect. That's very clear. My last question is regarding the press release that was sent out after the report.
Yep.
In your opinion, what will be important for the upcoming CEO, and are there any internal candidates that you think would handle the role well?
Yeah, that's a good question. We've sent out what's been standing in the annual report now for a couple of years, that since I'm reaching an age where I'm should not work so much longer, I will then retire, and go with pension, more or less at the end of the general meeting in the spring. To answer your question: Yes, we have internal candidates, and we are, we are also searching for external candidates in order to match these against each other, and then we will see which person we think will be the best one fo r the future, for the company. I will still remain, for those who are interested in the board, so I will not disappear entirely from the company.
There will be a new CEO or President of the company appointed, and probably somewhere during the beginning of next year.
Great. That was all my questions. Thank you, Thomas.
Thank you, Anna.
The next question that comes from the line of Per Josephson from INT Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you. Hi, Thomas.
Hi, Per.
I missed the first part of the Q&A, but due to I was interrupted. Just coming back to the dynamic about order intake and sales, you mentioned in your presentation that the automatic warehouses, they were out of the books, so to say. Is it fair to assume that it's around 10%-15% of your business when it was relatively okay? How is the dynamic in the basic trucks business? Is it still fair to assume that book-to-bill around one is fair, as it has been on the historic level?
We are around these SEK 260 million, that's, let's say, the bottom level of your revenue, and then you can actually grow from there. That's my question to you.
That was a big question, Per.
Yeah.
I'll try to answer you in a way. Yes, the negative figures is coming from the automated warehouse. Otherwise, I think we would have shown them a small, small increase compared with-
Mm-hmm.
... last year. It is indeed so that, the automated warehouse, is more or less gone now from the books. I think we have, some smaller projects still coming from, let's say, historic orders. Otherwise, there are new things coming in from small and medium-sized customers-
Mm-hmm.
It's not bad at all from that respect. Of course, you don't have these kind of huge projects that we, we had during 2020 and 2021 going into 2022. Which means also that you don't have these big projects which are distorting the order to bill ratio.
Mm-hmm.
We are right now you can see it even more in the way that this is the old products without this big project for-
Yeah.
... going forward, and you should see it like this. Indeed, when I'm saying that we are around, right now, around 12 months old, you know, SEK 26 million or something like this, yes, this is probably something then which you should see at some sort of zero level.
Yeah.
Then, of course, it depends how the market will be during the second semester, i f it will go down or as some thinks, or if we just, you know, continue the growth that we have had since a long time back.
Great. Thanks a lot. Thank you.
Thank you, Per.
The next question comes from the line of Kenneth Toll from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you. Most good questions have been asked, but I have a few ones still left. On this Panel Detection product that, that you're launching now, how easy is it to use? Does it mean that Troax employees have to go out and service installations, or can that be maintained by, well, factory workers?
It is designed that it should be able to maintain by the customer's own people, so the factory worker, or at least a maintenance person. It's not that complicated from a, let's say, installation or maintenance point of view. Not at all.
Mm.
It's fairly simple.
Okay.
From that respect.
Great. One question also, you talked about some lower prices for some input costs. Do you think that you will be able to keep your own prices up, or do you think i s it more price pressure on your prices? Are customers complaining that steel prices have come down, and now, you need to cut your prices, or do you think you will keep your prices?
Yeah, good question, Kenneth. In general, I think we can keep our prices, but there will be here and there some reduction because of, absolutely, you're correct assumption, and that the price is going down, and some customers will, of course, put pressure on us and are already doing this. On the other hand, we have the things going against this, meaning that the salaries and wages are, of course, going up, higher than what it's been done, at least historically.
We have, of course, the energy also, which is going- again, it's a bit of a discussion. In general, in a general way, I would think you can, so to speak, probably think that there might be some smaller reduction on prices overall, but not any major implications for the group.
I was thinking last two years, when steel prices and other costs were going up, t he organic sales were, were benefiting from that.
Yeah.
Do you think that, now if prices are rather coming down a little bit, that it will be noticeable also in organic sales numbers?
That is a possibility, too, at least for that. Yes, Kenneth, I agree.
Okay. Yeah. You talked also about margins and efficiency and plants and so on, how are you doing on your sales force?
Mm.
Are you hiring new salespeople at the normal rate, or, a re you a little bit more cautious?
Mm.
How do you reason from that?
Yeah. We are hiring still, but on a more cautious rate. You're correct in the assumption that, because of that, the demand right now, and especially as I've said now several times, for automated warehouse, this of course, has an impact on the overall, let's call it, demand or pressure on the organization, so we don't need to hire. We are continuing to hire, both geographically and in some specific product areas where we see some potential.
The final one, again, coming back to acquisitions. Now, when, the business cycle is probably softening a bit,-
Mm.
Do you think that could be a trigger for the owners of, attractive assets for you, that they will sort of finally agree to give in and actually do the sale?
I think so.
Would they rather wait? Yeah, yeah.
No, but I-
Rather than-
The simple answer is, Kenneth, yes. I think so. Now, whether that will happen is, of course, another story. But if you just look, look it, try it, from a logical point of view, it is normally so it works in the market, over the business cycle. That, in the beginning, when things are not so bright, they wait, and then after some time, you, you get to reach then some sort of at least a discussion point where you can discuss things in a better way. We are there now.
Mm. Mm. Great. Yeah. We, Yeah, that's helpful lot. Okay.
Mm.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, Kenneth.
Our question comes from the line of Daniel Lindkvist from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.
Hi, Thomas. I understand I need to be much faster pressing the star one.
I learned.
Almost all my questions have been answered already, but just a few quick ones. On North America, should we interpret the reduction of capacity, something just temporary and no change in your long-term very positive view on the outlook for that market?
No, that's correct. It's just to reflect the lower demand for automated warehouse, which was, as I call it, pumped up too much during 2020 and 2021. Long term, we are still quite positive over North America. We will continue to do further investment there, also in organization and also, let's say, physically.
Your long term, you're more afraid of not having the capacity than having too much capacity in that market?
Yes, correct.
On the order conversion, now, we have reached a level where we've been almost close to converting the order book previous quarter and in the upcoming quarter. Is there anything that's affecting that, now that you get the automotive orders back in the business once again?
Mm, not-
Affect the conversion.
Not really. You will not see a lot of that on the overall side. You can see it for one single project. These orders are not of that dignity that it will have, you know, an impact on the total group figures either way. If you look at the specific market or specific months, you will see some, let's say, distortion of the figures. Overall, you shouldn't see the main distortion that we've seen now in the last couple years because of the big orders for automated warehouse.
Then, if I do the calculations, it seems like you have some backlog apart from what was your [inaudible]-
Well-
in this quarter from the previous.
Yeah, that's, that's the normal backlog, if you see my point.
Oh, okay.
I mean, we got the orders from May, June, that will obviously be delivered in, in July and August, normally. Those are the normal ones. Mm-hmm.
Thank you so much, Thomas.
Okay, thanks, Daniel.
Thanks.
We currently have no questions in the queue. As a reminder, please press star one if you'd like to ask a question.
All right.
We have no further questions in the queue, so I'll turn the call back over to your host for any closing remarks.
Yeah, just like to thank you very much for listening in and for your interest and inputting questions, which I appreciate, as you know, very, very much. I look forward to meet you all again in this sort of occasion in October, when we're going to then report the third quarter results. Thank you and see you later.
Thank you for joining today's call. You may now disconnect your lines.