Hello, everybody. Good afternoon and a warm welcome from our side to this year's earnings call. Earnings call of Montana Aerospace for the full year 2022. Together with me there is Marc Vesely. I have to apologize, my colleague and co-CEO, also Kai Arndt. It seems like he worked too much, he got ill, and therefore, I have to apologize him. I will guide you through. I will start with a very simple sentence. When we look at 2022, this quote, which is very well-known, "Never let a good crisis go to waste," is more than relevant for us. We remember how strong, I would say, headwind we had at the beginning of the year. Not only us, but the general economy in the industry we are in.
Energy crisis, material constraints, supply chain constraints, inflationary costs, interest raises, human resource issues, where there is a lack of good quality of labor available in the general markets. When we look at the results of 2022 for Montana Aerospace with a net sales increase of more than 65%, an adjusted EBITDA which more than doubled in comparison to what we had in 2021. If you look back also in 2020, for the last two years, we even increased our sales by factor two. Even, 2022, we again increased our contracted sales. I guess we can claim that we didn't let a good crisis go to waste.
We tried our best to materialize where we are here, what we are in, what we are doing, and what we are, we think quite good in it and which gives us a well balance and a good start for 2023, and the guidance for the next years. If you look into the details, you will see that we had a very strong quarter, fourth quarter in 2022, in all three segments. Aerostructures grows by factor two, from EUR 89 million sales to more than EUR 200 million sales in one single quarter, showing exactly the ramp up and the winning of market share we always claimed after in the last two years.
E-mobility, which is more and more close to its capacity constraints, optimized its sales performance with almost 27% plus in comparison to 2021, and more than EUR 50 million on total sales in the fourth quarter 2022. Energy had a massive change, and we come to that one later, in 2022. The complete market developed completely different to the years before. It changed from a customer-driven to a supplier-driven market, from excess capacities to a lack of capacity where we are in. Therefore, also here we see a strong performance, plus 16%. What we will see then later on, an enormous high increase in EBITDA and also the earnings in total. Two years ago, almost two years ago, we started with a very strong claim. We have our journey as a stock-listed company.
We claimed, and this was in the midst of the crisis, of the COVID crisis, where no planes were on the sky, airports closed, and more or less no traveling allowed. We claimed that the game changer, we are the game changer in the supply chain we are in the aerospace supply chain. Why? Because we have a certain setup. A setup which is quite special in all our segments we are in. We are producing not only what we do and for the customers we are in, but mostly in a way and the process, which is quite unique. From the scratch of the material, which starts mostly also with the raw material, with the scrap, with recycling, till the end of the assembled product, all the way through the value chain.
This in a way that most of our entities are in best cost manufacturing footprint countries, enabling a one-stop shop concept for our customers with innovative product design and high material competencies, which enables us to produce our products in aluminum, in titanium, in special steel or copper for our customers in the different industries. Still remember, we started this journey to complete our CapEx programs, which were based mostly on high contracted sales, giving us a kind of certainty and security for the next years to come, that we will increase our sales, and that we will have the chance also to come back to be a very profitable company, a very profitable cash flow producing company again. Where we are right now, I would say in the middle between investment phase and profit phase.
We have more or less finished our large CapEx programs in 2022, are right now to materialize on what we have built on. This is also the main, I would say, topic which will come later on for the guidance of 2023 and 2024. In total, we have seen an increase in all three segments: sales and even more in EBITDA. Net sales rose between 25% when we come to energy on a year-over-year basis from EUR 380 million to EUR 480 million in total sales. In E-mobility, 56% and in Aerostructures, even more than doubled to EUR 636 million on total sales or a 123% change on a year-over-year basis.
I guess what is more important, and that's what we focus on, is to increase not only in sales top line, but at the end, also bottom line, or in this case, the EBITDA. E-mobility, very close already to its capacity constraints, has finished a very strong year in 2022 with EUR 24 million EBITDA, more than almost quadrupled, tripled, sorry, their E-EBITDA over the last year. Energy has seen the most significant change I've ever learned in an industry in the last, I would say, 20 years. As I said, the market, which was driven by the customers and by no price tag, as energy or electricity, it didn't have a price tag for more than ten or 15 years all over Europe and also in the other countries.
It suddenly changed to one of the rarest and most important resources. This gave us a chance as being a material company, mission-critically company in this energy transition worldwide to materialize on it quite significantly. This not only rose the sales, more important, it rose significantly our EBITDA, where we tripled more or less our EBITDA within one year, and most of it in the fourth quarter 2022, which gives us a very good tailwind for the year 2023 and the next years to come, with a chance to reach only in this segment also with some investments, I come to that one later, up to EUR 1 billion on total sales within this decade. Stepping into the details on a company basis, total sales increased by more than 65%.
Adjusted EBITDA reached far over EUR 100 million, EUR 134 million EBITDA or 139%. I guess, with this amount and also increase, according to our guidance, which is focusing on EBITDA, net income and free cash flow, we are well in track, a bit far, further, in track than what we guided. Definitely we see that we have the capability within our segments to materialize on the sales increase and the capacity usage in our three segments. Capacity is the keyword, the password for the CapEx. We have finished more or less our large CapEx projects in the field of Aerostructures. The last one was to build up a large heavy press, mostly for the European Aerostructures or aerospace market, in Romania. This last project were more or less is finished.
Therefore, we see a decrease already from the CapEx in comparison to the previous years, with EUR 120 million and even more in the years before, to EUR 86 million. We come to that one later with the guidance. On the year 2023, we expect a further decrease of the CapEx as the sustainable capital and maintenance capital is in a region of around EUR 40 million-EUR 60 million on a yearly basis. That's what we target within the next years to come. Trade working capital. Yes, we see an increase. It's still not there where we think in the midterm range, it can be back again. Please remember, we strategically implemented extraordinary high inventory mid-2021, seeing a material crisis and also a supply chain crisis coming along the globe.
We intentionally increased the inventory of up to 18 months, being able to deliver even when no supply chain is working and others maybe are not delivering. Starting in September 2022, we started a program to bring it back to shape, which will then continuously go on till the year of end of 2024, to be then back in shape for this year's trade working capital. In total, also, this reflects the increase. The increase also reflects, of course, the takeover of the entities of São Marco and Asco. As the balance sheet is immediately included, the P&L only part of the year consolidated. Therefore, we see still an impact, a negative impact out of that one, which will be then also be aligned in 2023. Total assets therefore increased on 2 aspects.
On the one hand, yes, through the CapEx, through the acquisitions, the M&A, but also by the increase of cash. The cash position was, is over EUR 400 million, quite high by the year's end. This EUR 2.2 billion on total assets more or less also reflects, plus, minus, the total sales capacity of the installed capacity right now at Montana Aerospace. Stepping into some of the details, sales, yes, based on public topics, I would say, we see an increase of 65%. On the one hand, a win of market share. Sales increase also driven by price increases. For instance, if we look at energy and also in mobility, but also I would say the ramp up in certain industries like in the Aerostructures.
With the better usage of the capacity or even the price increases based on, I would say, the needs out of the crisis in the markets, we achieved the adjusted EBITDA, still knowing that the adjustments were, I would say, three topics like we have also shown in the IPO in the year 2021. Continuously, the MSOP, which is sponsored by Montana Tech Components AG, the majority shareholder out of the past. Legal expenses in connection with a legal case we have since many years. The post-merger integration with the acquisition of Asco. Those topics are adjusted from the EBITDA, which is reflecting EUR 126 million concerning IFRSs. Within those EBITDA, also, we have to admit or say that there are plus/minus around EUR 30 million worth of one-offs.
Those one-offs are mainly out of the acquisitions, of the São Marco entity and which is in energy business or Energy Segment, around two-third of out of acquisitions and transactions within in Aerostructures. The result of the period, still negative. I guess we have achieved the intermediary step. Not only that the first quarter was very strong, giving over to the guideline, presenting the guideline for the next years and the next quarters to come. Also the we have seen a positive operating result already in 2022. We come to that one later. The guidance for 2023 is to have also a positive net income at the end.
Please, be aware that we still face a high depreciation due to the massive CapEx we have done in the last few years, with over EUR 109 million in 2022. Of course, it impacts our result of the period, quite tremendously. I said, a positive operating result was a great step into the right direction. It was a very strong quarter already, reflecting the right dimensions of what to reach within the next quarters to come. Personnel expenses, which you see in the middle of this slide, is increased by 54%. That's quite a lot.
We have seen worldwide a massive increase of salaries and there was a lack also concerning high quality human resources, a lack of talents, to be fair, mainly in countries like the U.S., but also in other areas. It's depending on the region. Still something to add here is that the personnel expenses were +/- in line on a like-on-like basis concerning the increase on what we calculated. We calculated this +/- 9% increase for 2022 at the end. We ended with on a like-on-like basis, country by country, with around 10%. Of course, this personnel expense is slightly below the expense, the increase of sales. It's under proportional.
I'm still pleased to add here it reflects that we have acquired companies like, for instance, Asco, which are not situated in best cost manufacturing footprint country. Over here, the impact is still to be seen. It's going to be different within the next years to come concerning the growth of sales in comparison to the growth of personnel expenses, which will be under proportional. The net amount between operating expenses income saw an increase of expenses of around a bit less than EUR 30 million. If you look in the details, the main drivers of this mostly operating expenses were, as announced and also guided, two areas. It was freight and on the other hand, mostly the energy. Energy rose by almost EUR 40 million on within this year, 2022, in comparison to 2021.
Plus/minus in the range of what we guided also very early already in January 2022. Of course, these fluctuating prices was the most crucial elements, how to deal with it. High prices is something else, but fluctuating prices are always very difficult to handle and to work with. In total, also under these circumstances, we are quite proud with the general development of the OpEx and income. The net amount as it is under proportional in comparison to the Net sales in 2022. Net debt, dramatically reduced. We have seen, Net debt, please remember, in September 2022, so the third quarter results, has shown a Net debt position of EUR 468.
We claimed those days that this will be the maximum amount which will be shown, it's going to be reduced dramatically. The same also when we come in later on to the trade working capital. It should have seen by September 2022 the peak, and that's the case. With a very strong positive cash flow in the fourth quarter, we have reduced dramatically the net debt position to around EUR 280 million. Even so, we acquired Asco, we acquired São Marco. We had some one-offs of around EUR 30 million, which also helped to reduce this net debt position. This more or less reflects a net debt EBITDA governance of 2.2 factor for the full year 2022, which is almost in line what we want to achieve within the next years, which is below two.
Total equity, very stable, slightly plus, very comfortable when we looked in late on the balance sheet. We remember around EUR 2.2 billion on total assets. The equity ratio of with less than 50% or 43% equity ratio. It's a very comfortable, I would say, situation which we are in. Number of employees increased by 21%, reflecting our growth under proportional in comparison to the sales. We remember still there is an acquisition also which we have performed in this, in the energy segment, São Marco, and also the acquisition of Asco for the Aerostructures business. And those numbers already reflect, of course, the increase within the increase of the employees. The main driver for the positive cash flow was beside the EBITDA, the trade working capital.
We have seen a maximum amount of more than EUR 500 million in September 2012. This EUR 500 million was reduced dramatically by almost EUR 200 million to EUR 290 million by end of the year 2022. It is a small mistake. It's not the trade working capital of the third quarter. At the end of the year, we will change this one in the slides. We can put on the deck, which deck is then presented and published within our homepage. This is reflecting the end of the year numbers with EUR 290 million.
And this is one of the main drivers of how to generate cash in this journey of under proportional development of the working capital in comparison to sales should also continue within the next quarters to come in 2023 and 2024. Contracted sales already in a very high level in 2021. This is only reflecting Aerostructures, so it's not reflecting the other businesses as we guide only on the contracted sales in this area as it is the best to calculate on. This once again rose by a good factor of 30%, reflecting more than EUR 6 billion on total contracted sales in the Aerostructures, which will be worked up in the next years to come. Trade working capital reduction, EBITDA, positive on a high level, increase in this area.
This is the main drivers for the operating cash flow. The operating cash flow rose from a minus EUR 27 million to EUR 130 million plus, reflecting a massive growth. Still, please remember, which you see on the right-hand side, we did some CapEx projects. It's the finalization of the large CapEx projects which give us the capacity of around up to EUR 2.2 billion total sales. The last major steps were performed in 2022. This of course, and beside also the impact of acquisition this year, don't forget that we have done the two major large acquisitions in 2022.
They influence the free cash flow, and therefore the free cash flow is negative still, but on a much lower level than what we have seen in 2021, therefore giving a very clear signal also in the concerning guidance 2023. Here we come with the guidance 2023, what to expect. Based on, I would say, a solid development, which we have already seen in the first months of this year in all three areas, we are quite positive to achieve the numbers, of course, of this guidance 2023, which we want to reassure or reiterate once again. An increase in sales of around 15% to more than EUR 1.5 billion. Please take into account that we sold a smaller entity by end of the year 2022.
We have around EUR 100 million on total sales. On a like-on-like, it would be a EUR 1.6 billion or from EUR 1.2 billion to EUR 1.5 billion in sales increase. What does it mean concerning different segments? E-Mobility, I start with the smallest one, as I said, is very close to the capacity constraints. Here the emphasis is once again to materialize most on an EBITDA and therefore net income increase. Which is the focus here, where we are already on a very good path with over EUR 20 million on EBITDA last year. Also this year is the focus on mostly net income generation, free cash flow generation and EBITDA increase. Energy segment had the most significant turn in 2022, with a complete change of the market.
A market, as I said, which was driven by, for many, many years, by, excess capacities. Now sees a lack of capacities for many, many years to come. Therefore, a very positive environment for the energy business. Here we do best to increase our capacities, and to guide for more than EUR 550 million on total sales, and also, again, a very strong EBITDA, in this region. The one area which is increasing fastest with sales is Aerostructures. Where the capacities are installed, to also provide the basis for further growth within the next years to come. This year we will see from around EUR 550 million to EUR 750 million to EUR 800 million on total sales. Once again, this EUR 100 million has to be adjusted, which we, disposed, the 53% last year.
On a like-on-like basis, it would show a EUR 350 million increase, to EUR 350 million, to almost EUR 400 million increase on a year-on-year basis. What to expect on the EBITDA. Please note that, yes, we have seen some one-offs around worth EUR 30 million. This is the EBITDA, not the adjusted EBITDA. It's the IFRS EBITDA. Also this slide, we have to correct. It's just a test whether I know the numbers. This is reflecting the IFRS EBITDA. We guide for around EUR 130-150 million in 2023. We had a EUR 126 million IFRS EBITDA in 2022. This was impacted by one-offs of around EUR 30 million.
Without any one-offs, there should be, again, quite a significant over proportional growth in EBITDA in comparison to sales. This is the clear guidance also what to expect and what we work on. A high profitability, profitable business, with a net income positive result, and a free cash flow positive result within 2023. CapEx, no major projects ahead. Therefore, more in the dimension of EUR 50 million to EUR 60 million, and a shift towards more maintenance and sustainable CapEx. The outlook for 2023 is mostly on the generation of a positive free cash flow, on a positive net income, a streamlining of the trade working capital. Still again, in comparison to our peers, a over proportional growth in sales, and therefore the profitability based on the contracted sales we have in hand.
Today in the morning, we also not only published the full year numbers for 2022, but a so-called also soft announcement. Let me shortly tell you a bit about this soft announcement. It's about a potential, I would say, partial spin-off, including also an option of an IPO of our energy segment, which is named ASTA. ASTA Group, which is a worldwide group, by quite mission critically for the energy transmission generation, transportation and also for E-Mobility. Why have we announced this soft announcement? It's quite simple. We have not only seen a massive shift last year of the industry, but also this tailwind and the strong demand in the areas we are in. Please note that without this energy segment, without ASTA, one-third of Europe would be dark. There would be no electricity.
One-third also for Americas and almost also for Asia. It's mission critically for this area of energy generation, transportation and transformation. Also more and more also for E-Mobility. This is now, this market is now offering us the chance with some investments of ± 100 million EUR over the next few years to grow to a 1 billion EUR company within this decade, with a quite significant strong EBITDA. Therefore, we announced this soft announcement, at least trying to evaluate the chances of a more, I would say, independent development of this segment. Thank you very much. This was the presentation for today's earnings call. I'm happy now for answering your questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star followed by one. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. The first question comes from Phil Buller from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi, good afternoon. Congratulations on the results, and thanks for taking my questions. I have three, if I may, two related ones. Firstly, on the free cash flow and the debt position, obviously a huge improvement in Q4 at the big change in the trade working capital. I was wondering if you could comment on whether there has been any material change in your view or approach to things like factoring. The second and related question, I guess, you mentioned in the annual report an objective to try and address the ties on your debt with the parent company, MTC.
I was hoping you could take us through where we are in terms of the parent company covenants and what needs to happen practically, to enable the ties on the debt to be removed and in what kind of time frame we could expect an update. Thanks.
Phil, thank you very much. You're right. May I start with the second part of the question. You were right. We also said that we are more and more cutting the ties to our or to the majority shareholder, Montana Tech Components AG. Please, for everybody in the call, remember that we have our financing is based on the one hand on cash, but on the other hand, on, as you still have a net debt position on debt, and this debt is consisting of a good portion of so-called promissory notes, and these promissory notes have a so-called governance covenants covenant criteria, and the most crucial one is the net debt EBITDA. As you have learned, Montana Aerospace itself has a very solid net debt EBITDA ratio with 2.2 x.
Definitely in a, I would say, highly investment area. Out of the past, because those promissory notes were issued long, long before an IPO, the governance criteria calculated on the MTC, so the old shareholders group perspective. Therefore, if one of our sister companies, in this case, VARTA, did not reach what the numbers there to be expected, this has a potential impact also for us. Therefore, to tell you 2022, everything is solved also by our strong development, but also by other topics. There is no issue.
This left, of course, a clear focus on our side to really cut also this, I would say the last major criteria, which is linking us to the MTC by changing the financing of the cross-debt of these promissory notes in 2023. We are in a process of that one, and I think that we will have a good result by mid of the summer, and then we'll present the details on that point. There's a clear goal, not only to reduce cross-debt, but also to change it, and also to reduce a bit net debt, and therefore have no major impact negative on the interest rates, but to have a complete, I would say, independent structure on financing of Montana Aerospace not for only for now, but also for the future.
The other topic is trade working capital, which is, as you said, linked a bit also to the financing because we had a very high trade working capital with over EUR 500 million. We reduced it dramatically over the last quarter. This was the starting point. Already, if you can remember, indicated in September's call, that the peak was reached, and now we started to reduce it to bring it back to normal. Back to normal means something like plus minus 35% trade working capital ratio on Aerostructures, around 16%-70% in E-Mobility, and around 7%-8% in energy in comparison to sales. This is a process, mostly in Aerostructures, to take some time.
We are in the middle of it, and it will be more or less continuously reduced till the end of 2024, where we should reach those numbers then on a steady basis also for the future. However, trade working capital in 2022, yes, we have seen some special, I would say, topics in there. We did some factoring, worth around EUR 25 million, but it's nothing which is completely out of, I would say, the ordinary course of business. We did also in the past some factoring when it comes mostly to countries like China, India and Brazil, as they faced already in the past, not only now, only the past already high interest rates, for instance, Brazil up to 17%.
Therefore, factoring with much lower rates was, I would say, a usual way of how to finance in a much cheaper way, the same like in China. Nothing majorly out of the ordinary course of business. Of course, we pushed a bit by the end of the year, but that's the case.
Got it. Thank you. That's helpful. Just finally on the potential spin of the energy business. The financial markets are a bit volatile at the moment. I assume there's no urgency. Is there a timeframe you'd like to get this done, say, is 2023 an objective or is that the wrong way to think about it? In terms of who would you consider to be the most appropriate peer group for people to look at when doing a comparable assessment of that business? Thanks.
Thank you very much. The main, I would say, the impact or the positive impact for this contemplation, let's say it like this, is, was coming also from potential strategic investors or strategic partners who said that it would be interesting to maybe take a stake or a part of our ASTA energy business. Yes, you're right, that there is no need for rush. Whenever the market is then able to, I would say, to accept again interesting stories and interesting IPOs, then we will be ready whenever it is. Is it maybe in the second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter? We don't know it. Nobody knows, I guess. I've learned in the past at least you must be prepared. You have to be prepared.
You have to give other potential strategic partners the chance to get a closer look into the company. We will be ready whenever it is. In any case, we won't change our program. Of course, it would accelerate in case of an IPO, the investments, that's it. We still also follow here a growth and also net income increase program in 2023 onwards. When we come to companies which you can compare with our business, it's not that easy as we are one of the major players in this field. I would say even that we are quality and also worldwide leading concerning capacity in this high voltage solutions.
What you can say is that we have peers in the areas of, I would say, leading cable producers. It's not the same product, but it's the same industry we're in. For instance, like this very well-known company, Nexans or the K or HUBER+SUHNER, the Prysmian Group. On the other hand, we have our customers, which are industrial conglomerates. We are working together very closely like Siemens Energy, Eaton, Legrand, ABB, Schneider Electric, or E-Mobility accelerators, which are the companies we see again and again when it comes to the copper cores of the mobility or mobility in general, where we are more and more in. It's Alfen, Gareau, Kempower or Zaptec, when you talk about listed companies. This is, I would say, the full universe we are plus minus in.
Please note once again, Phil, that what we are doing is only more or less done by very few companies, and we are, I would say, concerning capacity, quality, and also I would say the footprint, the major player in this area. Therefore, we would compare with those companies just named.
That's great. Thanks very much.
The next question comes from Richard Frei from ZKB. Your question, please.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. First of all, just a clarification if I got you right, on slide 16 regarding guidance, you said this is GAAP EBITDA, not adjusted EBITDA you guide for EUR 130 million-EUR 150 million?
Richard. Yes, I guess, when the slides were made, they wanted to test me whether I know the numbers or not. Yes, you're right. The 126, as you see on the left-hand side, is definitely the IFRS EBITDA.
Okay.
This year we guide for usually, adjusted EBITDA of EUR 130-150. Of course, there is a gap between IFRS and adjusted, plus minus in this range, it's fine.
Okay. I got it correct. Regarding E-Mobility, you've mentioned that you probably reach a situation where you have capacity constraints. On the other hand, if I got you right, you mentioned that you have invested now for around sales of EUR 2.2 billion sales for the group. Is there a possibility to shift capacity from Aerostructures to E-Mobility, or how should I understand this? For the group, it doesn't seem that there is a CapEx need, and for E-Mobility it seems that there is some.
Richard, you are correct. We are more or less close to capacity constraints. The installed capacity we built up, the year 2016-2018, starting production then with the third plant in 2019, 2020, is more or less full. You can remember at the IPO I said, we are maybe able to reach something like 180, and now we stretched this one again to 220 already. With that one, we are more or less really full, yeah. Of course, there, here and there are some optimizations possible, but it is not big jumps and not big increases. On the other hand, we have learned in mobility or let's say with the automotive business in general, that overcapacities can be very, very tough then to handle.
If we invest, then only on the basis of very clear contracted sales for long periods of time and which are then giving us a very secureness, not to fall in a situation where we have an excess or overcapacities in this area. Therefore, the clear goal is not necessarily to invest or not necessarily to increase sales in E-Mobility, but to strengthen again and again and again, EBITDA, net income, free cash flow, to have a very high positive free cash flow business and to really see out of its strengths whether some contracted sales bases in mobility is possible to then start maybe a program within the next years to come. Is it possible to shift capacities? Partly, yes. Yeah. As you know, we work together between the segments for some areas.
For instance, when it comes to seat area, seat structures, also some batteries, battery boxes, which are then jointly work together. If aerospace is ramping up so fast, therefore, and also having an even better at the end possibility of EBITDA, too much shift doesn't make sense. It should be seen on a standalone segment.
Okay. In the near future, it's more about quality of sales than sales growth in E-Mobility.
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly, yeah.
Okay.
We want to reach this 13%-15% EBITDA. It's a very high cash flow business. Please remember, the assets installed, there is about EUR 60 million. When you look at EUR 220 million sales, a good portion of something, good portion over 10% EBITDA, I said in the region of 13%-15%, with 5% depreciation, it's a very strong net income and a very strong cash flow business.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Last topic also on energy. A trade sale is also possible?
At the end, everything is possible. I think the major intention is to have a potential, a bit more independent development of energy segment. We see it highly critical and highly valuable for us. It's an asset low basis or asset light business at the end in comparison to Aerostructures. We want to keep the majority. There could be within, for instance, also potential IPO, the one or the other strategic partner coming in as a shareholder. That's definitely the preferred business.
Also for everyone as a shareholder, what we want to achieve with this is mostly the accelerated plan to reach a EUR 1 billion on total sales, with a solid EBITDA and a very high net income. Therefore, have also a potential, obviously good return for every shareholder within Montana Aerospace, but also energy business.
Okay. I understand now the press release of this morning a bit better. As you say there, potential IPO proceeds of around EUR 100 million-EUR 150 million are for future growth of energy. This now makes sense if you keep the majority. It's like you dedicate out of the proceeds EUR 100 million-EUR 150 million to energy. Is that the correct reading?
Exactly. Exactly. If you remember, we talked a lot about, Richard, about the segments and also there are synergies between, as you named it before, there are strong synergies between E-Mobility and also Aerostructures within the Montana Aerospace Group. They have common groups. They have the common material, aluminum mostly. They have common end and an end. On the other hand, the synergies between energy and the other segments is very low. It's quite independent. Exactly this independency also concerning the potential development. This is the intention with this, I would say at least evaluation. Yeah.
Okay. That helps a lot. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one. The next question comes from Beltrán Palazuela from DLTV. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good afternoon, Michael and Mark. My pleasure speaking with you. I have a couple of questions. First of all, I'm sorry about asking again about the energy business regarding I think you were quite clear, the proceeds and the growth opportunities, but maybe if you can go in more detail, why spin it off? Do you really see, let's say, a multiple arbitrage about the possible valuation of this business? Then my second question is regarding the Aerostructures. With the volume you have guided, let's say EUR 200 million-300 million to reach, let's say, maximum capacity in Aerostructures.
Could you guide us regarding the, let's say the current guidance of margins of this years to how, how do we get to the 20% EBITDA margins in the end, Aerostructures? My 3rd question is regarding competitors. If you could give us, let's say, a little bit of more detail on the three, let's say, segments, how competition is functioning. 4th question regarding the outlook. It was quite weird because you said that you're going to suffer a lot in the 1st to the 3rd quarter. Is that that your plans compensate you in your, in your 4th quarter, or how does that function? My last question is regarding M&A. Clearly seeing your excellent, let's say, balance sheet and prospect for positive net income and free cash flow generation.
Are you starting to analyze, let's say, possible opportunities in the Aerostructures to be executed in 2024? Thank you very much.
Four questions, so I try to answer the best possible way. Let me go first on the energy segment and the details of the idea behind it. It's quite simple at the end. We have a very independent segment. We have a very clear plan. Now we have a massive tailwind. I said already quite some while in the business, and I've never seen in one single industry such a massive change within one year, where suddenly, something which didn't have a price tag, like for instance, in this case, electricity, got one of the most valuable goods around in the market. This is driving our business not only now, but also for the next years.
This gives us this chance to really grow extensively, where we want to have the used proceeds in three areas, which is quite special for us. Again, I would say this green copper, the recycling of copper for this copper business, based business, more in E-Mobility, mostly in Asia, and also capacity increase in Europe, which is in this case in Bosnia, which we want to intend. Details on that one will follow as soon as we have the chance also. Now that we have the chance also to go out. Let's say it as it is. We have of course, to not only look at the company which is doing quite well, but I guess also on the markets, how they accept new stories. What to expect here?
In general, we had last year, EUR 32 million on EUR 33 million, excuse me, on EBITDA, out of which ±EUR 10 million were one-offs in connection with the M&A acquisition we had in South America with São Marco transaction. If I take this or deduct this, I would say normalized EBITDA was something like EUR 22 million-EUR 23 million, based on the EUR 480 million total sales. The plus minus, this is a business with only 2% depreciation. Very low. Usually, if it's not financed, which is in our case, the case, by IC loans, but if it's financed, normally with a very low trade working capital of only 8%, 7%-8%, it's a cash flow strong business, yeah.
Exactly this business is going to shall be grown to a level of around EUR 1 billion by the end of the decade, with a high single-digit % of EBITDA rising steadily over the next years to come. Based by the three areas we want to invest around EUR 100 million till the end of 2030 over the next years to come. It's exactly the plan, and it's exactly also what to await in here. That's why we evaluate the chance of a potential partial IPO, including also the chance maybe to include the one or the other strategic investor. You talked about the Aerostructures and how do we get to 20% EBITDA. You're right. If you look at the Aerostructures only, 2022 was dilutive.
We had seen an under proportional positive development of the EBITDA in comparison to sales. Please note, we acquired Asco. In Asco, we calculated with a zero EBITDA with all the PMI costs and other costs, where only a fraction of it was then adjusted. At the end, it came out a bit better than expected, however, still it was dilutive. If I take this away and if I look at the other planes in Aerostructures, which are running at a decent utilization already, then we see that they reached again more than 20%-25% EBITDA. Therefore, we have a very easy way of seeing that with more sales, we are continuously improving our EBITDA. Sales is what we guide.
You can also derive from that one that we will increase over proportionately in this area, also EBITDA. This is something you will see this year, over proportional development of the EBITDA concerning our guidance in comparison to the sales in Aerostructures. Short to mid-term, we guide for over 20% in Aerostructures, also for this segment, also in a clear guidance. Competitors in all three segments. I start with the energy business, as it was your first question. The competitors in energy, there are only two major competitors we are in. It's a Korean group, and one is, which is a mixed reference basis, also Italian, Korean, Japanese group. They don't reach the quality, technically, and also the capacity areas we are in.
Therefore, we think that we are leading in this area. There are many smaller ones, but they are not really able to provide then those applications which are needed when it comes to quality, efficiency, and so on. The more need for electricity, the more need is also for high-tech quality or high-end quality, because here every single nanometer or micrometer counts. Just to give you an idea of how much this market is now driven. A couple of days ago, the so-called very famous newspaper Handelsblatt in Germany wrote that Germany needs to double please, its capacity for generation, transportation, and also transformation for electricity till 2045. This is exactly the market from us, from energy business, and it's our market. The higher the demand, the less competitors we have.
In E-Mobility, there are a couple, a couple of other competitors, for instance, HI Group and many others. But to be fair, we are in a kind of, I would say, special niche. The main part of our business is producing and developing the prototypes of these battery packs and then delivering including the surrounding material to the OEMs. The German-based mostly OEMs in mobility and E-Mobility. Therefore, I would say we have a good standing in this carry area. Still we have to be clear, there are many, many potential, also split it up in the value chain, competitors. Here I would say the landscape is a bit different. But all together within the value stream, there are very few, and this is exactly our competence.
That's also underlining our clear strategy not to have excess capacities, but to materialize on what we have and increase our net income and cash flow in this area. Aerostructures, we are concerning the setup special. Yeah. Especially in the way that this long value chain is coming more and more into the focus of interest of the OEMs. They have the need and also accept more and more that only if If a company has the capacity installed concerning the full value chain, then they're really able to provide the ramp up. More and more, of course, they have to look as an ESG-related topics like recycling.
To have the material under control, there's recycling under control to solve, to help to solve with solutions to reduce the CO2 footprint, like local to locally and less transportation, reducing lead time is getting more and more crucial. Yes, there are competitors out there, like for instance, Precision Castparts in some areas, which have a similar path. We have more than enough to do. We can be in the meantime, very selective concerning what we want and what we want to take. And therefore, I would say the competitor landscape did not massively change. Yes, many have more problems than we have seen maybe two years ago concerning their supply chain, and this once again emphasizes our own business.
Competitors are like companies like Meggitt in Europe, Precision Castparts, and many others. The Q1-Q3, our statement in today's announcement, we calculate at least risk. You can remember, we talked about energy one year ago before even the Ukrainian crisis started, and we said there is an energy issue. We talked about material supply chain issues in September 2021 already, long ago, long before maybe others also took this topic as a material part of the guidance. Still we see within the world we are in that there are many topics not yet 100% solved.
We still think, and this is part of our guidance, that it will be not easy going concerning supply chains, concerning certain OpEx, certain other parts to handle re-risk. We have to expect the unexpected. This is what we wanted to say. We still said that still the first three quarters will be tough to handle with all those impacts coming from different ways of, for instance, some areas of some supportive material which we need in the supply chain or extensive cost increases. We are prepared, we think. We are flexible enough to react fast on those topics. We will try to keep those topics as a chance to increase even our market share. It's part of, and it is part of our guidance. M&A, last part of your question, patron.
We're looking at, again, at many interesting potential targets. However, we want to stick with our guidance, which says not before we have the chance to fund a potential M&A out of our free cash flow, and not risking our financing structure with a net debt/EBITDA under two ratio. Therefore, we would guide more for 2024 with another M&A transaction in Aerostructures than for 2023.
Thank you very much for the detailed answers and all the support from.
Thank you.
There are no further questions at this time. I hand back to Mr. Pistauer for closing comments.
Thank you much, very much for attending. Had a very interesting year, finished with the presentation of the 2022 results. A very interesting year started with where we see the first month going right in the direction, which we intended and also guide. A strong tailwind in all three areas, mainly in Aerostructures and also in energy. With that one, I'm looking forward to the next call we have together, and hopefully we will be then able to present again a growth in all areas with a clear focus on more cash flow, more EBITDA, and more net income. See you soon, and thank you very much.