Welcome everybody, and good afternoon from Zurich, and thanks for dialing in into our earnings call for the half year's results. We're very proud of it. Before we start, I want to start off by reminding you why we see ourselves as the game changer in the aerospace supply chain and also the other industries we are in, and how we follow our strategy. We then will continue with a deep dive into the results for the first half year, 2022, and also an outlook into the next six months to come, and later also for the total guidance, management guidance for the full year's result. Let's start right away and explain to you what we do, why we do it, and how we think that we exceed also not only the development of other peers, but also hopefully the expectations.
We started as Montana Aerospace one year ago with the IPO, with a clear claim, and the claim was to be the game changer in the Aerostructures supply chain. Here with a very strong focus on technological market leadership, high margin business fields, and also fast, in fast growing markets. What we do is simple. We are a manufacturer of highly engineered, very special material parts and structures, which are most terms, crucial for aerospace, e-mobility, and energy sectors. The way we produce this, the how, is quite unique. Our business model is unique by being highly vertically integrated with a very broad material competence in the fields of steel, titanium, aluminum, copper, and also composite. Thereby capturing the entire manufacturing value chain and offer a much better lead time and production flexibility and also ESG, compared to our peers.
Leading to what we believe to a 90% of single source product exposure. This leads to a compelling value proposition, which is the key for our customers. Customers which are right now more than ever under pressure to reduce the cost and complexity in the global supply chain, and therefore rely on such vertically integrated companies like Montana Aerospace. At the end, this delivered us with this unique business model, quite some market share. We have gained market share with long-term contracts up to 13 years from now, and therefore could increase on a constant basis our contracted sales. Now we exceed with EUR 5 billion, in comparison to the IPO, 30% up, order backlog, quite some extensive market share win, which we have in our books.
Of course, to deliver this growth and also to take additional opportunities on the market, which we think that we can capture in the future, we have made significant investments in the last years. With the last investment program this year, more or less most of it already paid and most of it have already finished. By expanding our state-of-the-art manufacturing capacities in many best cost manufacturing footprint countries like Vietnam, but also South America and Romania. By spending over EUR 600 million over the last five years. Why we are going this way in this, I would say, unique strategy is quite simple. With the volumes and the utilization to increase, and it is increasing on a constant level, we expect margins to expand over proportionately, and also the cash generation to grow materially over the coming years, should grow over proportionately.
Offering us a high accretive payback of our investments with future growth. Given our PE background and mindset, we also have a view of ourselves as a key consolidator in the industries. Not only organically, but also with the help of M&A, we keep on integrating the value chain, completing or completed already several acquisitions since the IPO, and we keep on to continue to consider further opportunities. Most of those M&A opportunities are offered and promoted to us by our customers themselves, who search for solutions for their mission-critical suppliers to integrate them in companies with a long value chain like we have. That's the main proposition, the strategy of what we do, why we do it, and also the way how we structure this business. Now let me go directly to the numbers of the presentation, which is also shared online for your availability.
What we've seen in the first half year, 2022, is an over proportionate growth in comparison to the market development. We've increased our sales by more than 60% from around EUR 360 million first half year 2021, to more than EUR 578 million in total sales for the first six months, 2022. Which is also slightly above the consensus for the full year, is around EUR 1.1 billion, so above the half-year's consensus on sales comparison, to our actual sales we have shown here. Adjusted EBITDA, adjusted by mostly non-cash effective MSOP numbers sponsored by the Montana Tech Components Group.
Therefore, the adjusted EBITDA rose by around 50%, slightly under proportionate to the net sales, plus minus in line with the consensus, but with an increasing pace of EBITDA on a quarterly basis. A pace which we want to continue also, and we give them guidance in the later slides for the next quarters to come. If you look and break down those sales onto the segments, as seen on page six, we can claim that all three segments, Aerostructures, E-mobility, and Energy, showed growth. Growth in case of Aerostructures, more than 100%, with 119% in comparison to the first half year, 2021. With over 70% growth in E-mobility, mainly backed by large contracts with OEMs, German-based OEMs.
Energy, by the strong demand for energy solutions for working out the grid, and energy generation worldwide. If you look on page seven, on the quarterly development, we see that our main driver, the Aerostructures, is the fastest growing within the segment, with not only more than Q2 2021 to Q2 2022 169% growth, but also with a huge jump in sales in Q2 2022 to Q1 2022. A development which also should keep on going. For more explanations on the Aerostructures segment, the main driver and the most important segment for Montana Aerospace, I would like to hand over to Kai Arndt to give you more explanations on the development and also the challenges within this segment.
Yes. Afternoon from my side, Kai Arndt speaking. I hope you can hear me good. I will come to the phrase that Michael brought in his introduction when he said that we want to be a game changer in the aerospace business. I think you need to have a USP, and our USP is the vertically integrated production system we have. That means that a customer who's ordering a part needs only one focal point, that's Montana Aerospace, compared to several focal points for every single step in the production system of other companies. We are delivering everything as a one-stop-shop concept from one side from Montana Aerospace, and this is definitely paying off now.
We invested a lot of money in the last couple of years, and now we see that this concept is paying off. We see a clear appetite for more work share from the big OEMs, but also from other customers. When other companies are failing to deliver, and especially when we see the current ramp up and the current production rates, the OEMs are closing nearly on a daily basis. You see that already now suppliers are failing to deliver, and then we can deliver even the higher rates. This is definitely giving us a USP in the market, and we see clearly a strong demand to give us further market shares in all of the production systems we are working in.
You will see that later on the different slides. Our contracted sales, for example, is increased from EUR 3.9 billion to over EUR 5 billion, most of it coming from organic growth. We see that we don't need that big CapEx spend in the months to come, but also in the next year. It's more of the same where we are investing in, but not in big, well, new sites and new production systems. That's definitely something where we see ourselves in a USP. We also have one comparison now inside of Montana Aerospace. With the acquisition of ASCO, we see that also ASCO is not completely, fully vertically integrated, and this is definitely something we will work on.
We are in the middle of the post-merger integration process. Also ASCO will be one of the areas where we see that we have a lot of improvements in front of us in terms of making ASCO as vertically integrated as the Montana Aerospace system is. This is where we see our big strengths, and this is also acknowledged by our big OEMs, but also for the other customers, and there the big growth is coming from. We definitely think that also for the years to come, we will see more wins in terms of market share and this is definitely the concept of the Aerostructures inside of Montana Aerospace. Michael, I think you will continue now with the financials.
Yeah, thank you very much. We'll guide you through the financials, which are all also shown on our website and with the details presentation and also the report. If we flip to page number nine, we see that we have achieved within the first half year, 2022, more or less in all areas, a good development of the KPIs. As said, net sales increased by more than 60%. EBITDA rose by more than around 50%. CapEx spend, as also guided, went down dramatically. Why? Because the large CapEx programs are finished. It's only the last big project, which is now going to be finished in Romania, the so-called heavy press we build up for European demand, which will be also finished within this year.
Here, definitely within our also guidance, slightly below. Trade working capital, therefore not a full mark on this point, but strategically intended due to the massive supply chain issues we face right now, mostly in Europe, but also concerning certain supplies of material. Our vertical integration gives us the chance to outperform in case of shortcuts in the delivery and supply chain, but only if they have enough material. Therefore, this material and inventory is intended. Even so, I would say the KPI is not fully in shape, but should come down once, more or less, the crisis in different areas are fading out, then also this area of trade working capital will be reduced.
Total assets in line, therefore, as we continue, we see that the result for the period is still mostly impacted by the depreciation. Of course, I don't have to tell you, investments of around EUR 600 million resulted in higher depreciation done in the last year. We guide for this year for a total depreciation of around EUR 100 million. Total year, also seeing the peak, more or less, concerning depreciation within this year and the next years then, to continue on a slightly smaller pace.
If you continue to look at the one, on a detailed breakdown concerning sales and adjusted EBITDA by the segments, Aerostructures, in line also adjusted EBITDA with the intensive growth we have, EUR 119 million, 119% year-on-year growth from first half year 2022 versus the first half year 2021 in sales. Concerning adjusted EBITDA, more or less in the same range with 117%. A very nice development in mobility. Even so here we have the most of our gas needs in Romania and therefore here also a certain pace which we have to consider concerning how much gas with high costs we consume.
Also here till now, it worked out well with an increase of the adjusted EBITDA, almost 4x as fast as the growth in sales with 280% versus last year. Energy slightly down concerning the EBITDA. This has a reason. If you recall also our last calls, we also said that we already integrated. Intended since last year and also started with price increases towards the customers. Energy is a mostly project-based business, so pass-through of price increases take up to six to nine months. Therefore, those price increases, which are in many cases at least compensating our inflationary cost developments, will show their results from July 2022 onwards.
Therefore, also here we stick with our guidance concerning energy to slightly increase them for the total year, the EBITDA margin in comparison to last year at the higher pace of the sales. First half year still impacted by the inflationary costs and not pass-through of the price increases yet. To give a bit more guidance on the development in detail, and we will come to that one also later. Let's deep dive on production performance, personnel expenses, and also other operating expenses. Production performance, I would say, in line with the development of last year. Of course, we upfront produce what is needed concerning also the build rates and the POs for the later months.
Personnel expenses slightly below the sales and production performance concerning growth of the personnel expenses. Please keep in mind that we face worldwide a shortage of good workers and staff, something we will elaborate a bit later on. There is a run for good talent worldwide. If you're not really worldwide operating, it's tough to work on those shortages concerning good labor and workers on a worldwide scale. Other operating expenses, the impact you see here concerning higher operating expenses in comparison on the growth rates in comparison to the production performance is mainly due to the increased freight costs and also energy costs.
Something which is not new anymore, but something we have to cope with is mainly Europe, a massive increase of energy costs in electricity and also gas. There's also constant threat of more development in each direction. Right now we see it stable on a very high scale, but it's something we can partly pass through by around two-thirds of it for the total year. We think that we can pass through those extensive energy cost increases, but still a certain amount we have to purchase. This is also part of the guidance for the total year already. Net debt increased heavily to EUR 408 million as a net debt position.
This should more or less show the peak of the stress level, which is, I would say, guided also for 2022. The main impact came by the increase of working capital, which was strategically intended in comparison to last year. We started to increase the inventory starting mid of 2021, seeing already that there were certain shortages on materials not to fall in any shortcut and to fulfill all the massive growth we have. Therefore, we started to increase inventory strategically, but the most impact came also by the acquisition of ASCO.
Therefore, the amount of EUR 408 million should not only show the peak of our net debt position, but for 2023 onwards, we guide for and want to intend not more than 2.5 x net debt EBITDA as a ratio, which is for us also the guidance for the management for the next years to come. The number of employees rose by 23%. This mostly reflects the acquisition of ASCO, but also not to fall in any shortcuts concerning workers on a worldwide scale. If there is an ongoing increase also concerning build rates and demands from us concerning our sales, and therefore to be capable to deliver in time and to outperform also for the next quarters to come.
If you look at the trade working capital, here this one reflects mostly the inventory. Now, the inventory, once again, increased in comparison to last year by more than EUR 140 million, and this is strategically intended. It's high. It's too high for normal years. Under the, I would say, umbrella and spotlight of the present shortages worldwide concerning supply chain, with our value chain we have, this helps us and, therefore, we can deliver also when other competitors are not able to deliver, and therefore it's strategically intended as long as there are supply chain constraints in the market. Contracted sales, definitely very favorable development. We're proud to announce that, we increased almost by 30% in comparison to what we showed in Aerostructures during the IPO with EUR 3.9 billion.
Now it's more than EUR 5 billion contracted sales. This means that we can with high probability fulfill our growth plans also for the next years to come, still knowing that we don't calculate with these high build rates as announced. Increasing, but not that high ones. Kai will further explain it a bit later on how we calculate with what build rates we calculate for the future. Cash flow, as said, still free cash flow, mostly impacted by the acquisition of ASCO and also by the increase of trade working capital. Without those developments, we see a from quarter to quarter an improving cash flow.
Here once again, we have a clear guidance and also management aim to have a positive free cash flow by 2023, by reducing not only the CapEx, which you see on the right-hand side, which is also reduced in comparison to 2021, but will further reduce also in comparison to when we look in 2023. Mostly also by keeping the trade working capital at least stable and therefore increasingly fewer days, therefore having the possibility to achieve a positive free cash flow 2023 as well. Looking on a detail which, I guess I named already, is on page 16.
Some topics which is, I guess, at least from an operational issue, something we look at it on a more or less daily basis, freight costs and energy costs. Freight costs, it's not only the costs, but also, I would say the availability of the right transportation capacities and also the period of time for transportation. In many cases, for instance, overseas transportation is not showing anymore a detailed arrival time, so it's a bandwidth which is given, which makes it in many cases more strategically difficult how to schedule then deliveries. On the other hand, it's the energy costs, which at least tripled in total in comparison to what we have seen in the H1 2021 or the last quarters.
Therefore higher energy costs is something we have to count for the future, for the next years, next quarters to come, at least for 2022. Let's see how it develops maybe in 2023. When we come, this is for the financials for the first half year. I guess important is how the management and we as a company, as Montana Aerospace, see also the development for the total year 2022. The main element for the guidance 2022 as it is out of Aerostructures. It's the, not only the main giver, but as we have seen also, the most important, the fastest-growing and, the largest segment. Here within the build rate is the crucial element and the explanation on which build rate we calculate.
I would like to hand over to Kai once again, please.
Thank you, Michael. Coming to the build rates, which we have as an assumption in our calculations. You might find them a bit conservative, but honestly, if you see the current situation on the market, I think it's relevant that we manage also our trade working capital and also the employee numbers. Therefore, we did an analysis on the realistic scenarios in the market. You can see that for our guidance, we are a little bit below the announced build rates, especially when it comes to 2024 and 2025. I think we have the capacity, we can react very fast. If there are higher demands in the market, then we are able to deliver them.
For the moment, I think this is a very conservative approach how we do it, but it's the right one in the moment to do so. If you see that the long-range numbers, for example, the A350 and the 787, also there you saw some announcements in the press, some speculations in the press about higher rates, especially in 2024 and 2025. Also there my argument is valid, if there are higher rates coming from the OEM, we are able to deliver to this rate. There's no problem to ramp up very fast and to deliver on the demand from the OEMs. That's very important for us. There are no big CapEx investments needed to cover the demand on the market.
It's just the question of the right timing to, let's say, build up the capacities in terms of employees and then deliver to the demand of the market. This is what we are doing. I mean, you might expect that we are managing our trade working capital very seriously, and this is why we have lower, at least a bit lower, assumptions in our planning than you might read it in the press. As I said, this is also giving us some opportunities when there are higher rates coming from the big OEMs.
Saying that, this brings us to the guidance for 2022 for the total year. Sales wise, we slightly increased the guidance to around EUR 1.15 billion-EUR 1.16 billion on total sales for the total year, with around EUR 578 million for the first half year. I guess we are on a good pace to reach this number. As I said, the most part of this increase in sales, which is definitely far over the market average, is organic. The organic growth is the most amount of this increase in total sales. The responsibility for it is on the one hand side, the increased ramp up at different industries, but also the market share win, which we can now deliver and show in our sales.
Therefore, also the segment guidance on sales over EUR 500 million for aerospace. Back again, the largest segment, as also announced during the last quarterly result presentations. E-mobility, plus/minus around EUR 190 million, which is close already to the capacity. The main aim is to improve the EBITDA, which is going on track also here on a constant basis. Energy with the closing of São Marco, which should show then in the consolidated numbers from 1st September onwards, with around EUR 420 million on total sales for the total year, which sums up at the amount of a bit more than EUR 1.15 billion, EUR 1.16 billion on total sales for the full year 2022.
The adjusted EBITDA here also within the guidance of the year in comparison to March and April in percentage, slight increase, which we expect for the total year. Disproportionate growth on EBITDA expected. CapEx slightly lower with around EUR 90 million maximum of cash out for the total annual CapEx, which reflects more or less 25%-26% less than what we have done last year. Which is most of it for the finishing or for the termination of the last large CapEx program asset, which is taking place right now and where the last topics have to be solved till the end of the year. 2023 and onwards, we stick to our guidance to increase it by another 20% in 2023.
Things that we can achieve based on the setup we have, on the contracts we have. Also over proportionate growth in EBITDA. Ongoing with another reduction of the CapEx and I would say more in line development of the trade working capital, slightly under proportionately, and therefore a positive free cash flow, which is the key goal for 2023 onwards. For 2024, based on the build rates we have shown, we calculate with ± the full utilization of the CapEx we have right now in place, in installed and highly accretive business with good synergy effects all through our Montana Aerospace.
We would like to finish with the key areas, and therefore I would like to hand over again to Kai, which we are right now focusing on, and which are the challenges, for showing this growth rate and the sales development. Please, Kai, may I ask you to a bit elaborate on those issues which we have to focus on?
Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Michael, again. Yeah, here you see the four big challenges we are facing. I like to say as everyone else in the market, not only in our industry, but in all of the industry. We see the energy cost inflation, human resources topic. The chase for talents and transportation costs are increasing and also the material prices, which are now going back to a normal status, at least for aluminum. For the other three, of course, we need to find good solutions to overcome these challenges and to limit the effects on our financials. Here again, our concept is coming into play. As mentioned in the beginning, our USP is the one-stop shop concept.
That means that we don't have the amount of transportation between different sites as others have. There's definitely some opportunity and some advantage for our concept, so that we only have to deliver from our site to the final customers and not between the different sites. Of course, that's not valid for all of our parts, but for the majority, that's the case. This is giving us definitely a unique selling proposition. That's one of the big advantages we have. In terms of energy, I mean, we are trying to find good solutions also to limit the effect of the energy cost inflation. When it comes to normal electricity, we have...
Well, we launched a project in terms of the solar panels, and we will have a concept in place after the summer break to install solar panels all over the site and at least deliver the majority of the needed electricity from our own. This is also true for the material. We've launched a project to build up recycling stations to recycle our own ships from the production sites and so that we don't have any impact and effect from other sources also on the material. When it comes to human resources, I think this is more variable in terms of how we manage and overcome the shortage of labor in different sites. It's not true for all of the sites.
If I take Vietnam, for example, we see very good experience and talented labor in Vietnam, so there's no problem to hire from one day to the other in Vietnam and to ramp up. In Romania, we have some good concepts in place to overcome the challenge, but it's not easy. We will also see that we have to increase wages as it is done in Central Europe. We also see the need to do so in the eastern part of Europe. There will be some concepts needed to, let's say, hire the needed amount for the coming ramp up. Overall, I think the impact of the four challenges is clearly manageable.
We have the concepts in place, and I'm pretty convinced that we will see a more smoother 2023, when we are in a running mode and we have the concepts in place. From my point of view, everything is manageable, and then we will see that we don't have the big risk as maybe others have them in their portfolio.
That's why we stick to our guidance and say that, this was the presentation for the first half year's results. With that one, I would like to hand over to you and your questions, and we will try to answer in the best possible way. Please.
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star followed by one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selections. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. The first question is from the line of Richard Frei from ZKB. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I would like to start with the adjusted EBITDA margin of Aerostructures.
Comparing Q1 with Q2, there is quite some drop in margin. I'm wondering what the reason is for this. Is it the challenges you have shown to us, which were already known, or is there a bigger impact of the ASCO consolidation now visible in there?
In general, the development is mostly impacted by, as you've seen, by all three segments. We have increased the adjusted EBITDA more or less in line with the net sales. In Aerostructures, we have proportionately developed the EBITDA in mobility. I said more or less four times faster than the growth, which was 70%. Only energy was beyond, I would say, the development of last year concerning margin level. The reason was, I said that price increases need the time to show their impact in the results around six to nine months and not showing before July 2022, the results. For the total year, again, we think that we can on a quarterly basis and on a monthly basis, increase the EBITDA of the total group.
Therefore, it goes for the total given guidance, which is slightly overproportionate concerning growth. Of course, it always needs some time if there is such an inflationary development and you have, on the other hand, such a fast-growing development on sales to pass through then all the costs, and also still with the ramp-up of certain areas, still so many costs are implied with. Not everywhere the utilization is at the peak where we want them. We know that it's going to be due to the contracted sales. It is simply a question of time, therefore, we're quite optimistic for the future. Does this help or concerning the answer?
I'm not sure if I was clear enough. I was having a look at the sequential margin at Aerostructures, so Q1 to Q2. Here we had the significant drop, at least if my numbers are still correct in my model. I was wondering what was the reason for that, not just a few basis points, like 13% in Q1 to 9% in Q2. That was my question. Just in Aerostructures.
There's one simple point. There was also the integration, as you know, and acquisition of ASCO. ASCO was acquired effective in the consolidated numbers from 1st April, 2022 onwards. Here we guide, as you know, with zero EBITDA for the total year due to the immediately started PMI process. Therefore, it's dilutive concerning the margin level in the second quarter 2022. Excluding that, we had higher margins than in comparison to the H1 2021.
That's now where we clear.
Yeah. With ASCO, where we can calculate with a slightly positive, but more or less with a zero EBITDA for the first three months, which we consolidated right now.
If we stay with ASCO, looking at your balance sheet, the intangibles went up by around EUR 120 million. As goodwill and intangibles, can you give us some flavor how the PPA here looks like? How much is goodwill? How much is in intangibles? Or is that to be seen in the yearly report then?
Yeah. There's in a preliminary statement already in the financial report. Just a second, it's on page 35 of the total report, reflecting total consideration transfer of EUR 211 million, fair value of integrated net assets of around EUR -140 million. Goodwill of around EUR 70 million. Please be aware that it's a preliminary calculation. We think that the total amount will be slightly lower concerning the goodwill or quite some amount lower at year's end when the final calculation is done.
Okay. If I may, another question on the receivables. They have more than doubled. We could argue that this is in line with sales. Are the customers still paying at the normal levels or normal lead times, basically, no delays? Or is that probably a matter of time?
No, we don't see any risk on the receivables. The main impact is coming. Of course, please be aware that we have in the full balance sheet, the full impact also of the ASCO transaction, which comes with its receivables. Beside that one, there are clear contracts concerning the payment periods, and the payment periods are in line with the contracts. Here we don't see neither risk nor any overdues. Major overdues. Sometimes on a daily basis, yes.
Okay. Probably my last question. Kai mentioned it, that the biggest part of the increase in contracted sales was organic, but now I'm still curious to get some more flavor if possible. Just a rough indication, how much of this increase was organic and how much was brought in by ASCO?
Around 80% is organic and the rest is inorganic of the increase. That's all we can say, and it's consisting of many, many different. I would say smaller, but the total amount not so small, packages or contracts we achieved over the last quarters since the IPO.
Great. Many thanks.
Maybe one add-on from my side, and thanks for the question again. Even with these conservative rates, we have, as an assumption for our calculations, we see that we have roughly EUR 300 million from the increased contracted sales already from the build rates. You can see if the build rates are even, you know, going higher than estimated, then you will see again a big impact on the contracted sales, which is for us a big opportunity, of course.
Next question is from the line of Ross Law from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Actually just a follow-up on the backlog. I'm just wondering which programs you're primarily winning new business on. I know that you flagged A320, but any other programs that you're winning business on would be interesting. Also if you can divulge who are you actually winning the shipset content from? That's my first question.
The shipset content is something we will evolve in the next quarters to come, but it increased definitely. The program which is the fastest growing also concerning contracted sales is definitely the A320. Would you like to give a bit more details? The other ones I would say is diverse. It's even going down to certain paths with the special planes. Would you like to give more color on that point, Kai? It's mostly A320.
Yeah. It's mostly A320. Thanks to the acquisition of
Now we have a very balanced portfolio in terms of the different programs from the big OEMs. ASCO is more exposed to the Airbus programs. As you know, we have a big Spirit contract which is more or less exposed to the Boeing program. Overall, we now have a very balanced portfolio, and also for the long range programs, we are definitely good positioned. The current growth is mainly coming from the A320 and the A220. Hopefully we will see the 737 MAX coming back, and then this will give the growth for the, let's say, hopefully in the next 12 months to come. Overall, the portfolio is completely balanced, and then we will profit from every ramp up in every program in the future.
Okay. Thanks very much. Second question is just on your production rate assumptions. Obviously, you're still materially below the OEMs, and you've obviously flagged the A220 with your assumption of 63 a month and 25 versus the internal target of 75. Presumably, you know, your customers are sending you purchase orders for delivery, say, six to 12 months ahead. At what point do you need to potentially upgrade these production assumptions and also potentially, you know, changes in your operating model, hiring more people, purchasing more equipment, if in fact, you know, the OEMs targets start to play out? When will we actually learn that at your end?
I mean, of course, if you want to have a detailed answer, then you have to break it down to certain machines and machine types because it very much depends on which machine type, then there could be a bottleneck. As a general guidance, Aerostructures installed capacity is around, good for EUR 1.15 billion on total sales. EUR 200 million limited around capacity for e-mobility and around total capacity for energy is a bit more than EUR 600 million. Taking this one as a guidance, you see that there is a good deal more room for all the Aerostructures. When do we think with our assumption of the build rates, when this could be reached?
Something around between 2024-2025, depending on the real development of the ramp up of the OEMs and also their purchase rate. This is then when we need also, upfront to the development afterwards to increase further also sales too on some points, add some capacity. Please be aware, it's not then housing which we need or bricks and mortar you can call it, but it's mostly machinery, which could be a bottleneck, another one. Still, I would say, much lower than what we have seen in the last years, and still it enabled to increase our capacity there.
Yeah. I like to expand a little bit on the question because I really like it. There we can exploit also the proprietary production system we have. As you know, we starting with extrusion and then we do machining and also the surface treatment and the assembly. So we see in the extrusion a very high demand in the moment, which is not reflected in the purchase orders of the machining. So this is definitely underlining our assumptions that there might be a small delay in terms of the build rates which you see every day in the newspaper. There is definitely some mismatch between the extrusion demand and also the machining and assembly demand.
This is giving us some confidence that the planning with some lower rates might be the right way to go. Again, we are very fast in terms of reacting if there is a higher demand, and the current purchase orders definitely reflected in the current build rates, at least in the years 2022 and 2023.
Understood. Thank you. Just last one for me is just on the balance sheet. Clearly, you know, leverage is optimally high at the moment following the recent acquisitions. You know, I appreciate it's distorted because it's not on a pro forma basis. You know, it has been in the past and continues to be, you know, a concern amongst some investors. You know, what kind of comfort can you give us that, you know, you don't expect to raise more equity in the coming months and quarters?
Good question. It's important, and I guess also we guided here, and I'm happy to repeat also this point. You're right. We have right now in our terms as CFO concerning net debt EBITDA exposure also for 2022. We think that net debt should have reached its peak. Mostly, of course, due to the two topics, which is trade working capital, intended strategic CapEx increase, and on the other hand, the acquisition of ASCO. Both together, of course, brought this development. There also from our side, the clear guidance, free cash flow is the one clear not only goal, aim, but also has a guidance which is intended for 2023. Therefore also a further growth and also CapEx.
Excuse me. M&A acquisitions only with also free cash flow reduced by Montana Aerospace. For 2022, we don't intend to have any capital increase or further acquisition. This is clear. The password is the execution of the contracted sales of the market share wins we have of the capacities usage of what we have right now. That's therefore we think that this should see from now on a positive development concerning net debt EBITDA into the direction of 2.5 x net debt EBITDA 2023 onwards.
That's great. Thanks all.
Not more than 2.5x, please. Yeah. Less is fine.
As a reminder, if you'd like to ask any further questions, please press star followed by one on your touch tone telephone. Next question is from the line of Andy Schnyder from zCapital AG. Please go ahead.
Hi, gentlemen. I have a few questions. First on ASCO. Can you give us a little bit forward guidance on what kind of trajectory we should expect for ASCO for second half of year in terms of on sales and margins, and also a little bit further out in 2023 and 2024? That would be helpful.
I guess Kai is best to answer this one. Kai, please.
Well, in terms of the trajectory, I mean, ASCO should be back on the margin which we saw in 2019. That's at least the expectation we have. For the current year, they are delivering to the assumptions. We will meet the guidance we have in our books. That's the first statement from my side. In terms of the further margin, this will highly depend on the way we integrate ASCO in our system and how we make use of the current production system we have in the total Montana Aerospace. Meaning that ASCO should also profit from the other sides of Montana Aerospace when it comes to extrusion or the machining parts from Romania.
Just to give you an overview with the acquisition of ASCO, we now have over 300 CNC machines and over 400 spindles in our system. What we are doing right now is that we trying to, let's say, clean up the portfolio in that way that we see, well, in which side it makes sense to have which kind of the parts to be built. This is what we are doing right now, and ASCO will definitely profit also from this setup. What does it mean in terms of numbers? I mean, we see that we will achieve the same profit margin in ASCO as we have it for the other sites in the aerospace environment.
That's what we are targeting for. The current post-merger integration project is running. It's running in that way as is expected. We will see also the impact in 2023 as expected. In terms of concrete numbers, I like to be a bit, let's say, reluctant to disclose any numbers here, especially on ASCO.
Do you believe that, despite not being back at 2019 level in terms of sales in 2023 and likely not 2024, that you can go back to the 15% margin they had before just because of the integration effect and synergy effects?
No. I said once we in the profit margin for 2019 with ASCO next year, that is what I said. This is the target we have for ASCO. In terms of the sales, I think we will definitely see higher sales in 2024 and onwards with the current product portfolio we have. We have some good running RFQs, so that means that we have some sales initiatives especially for ASCO, where we do see some good potential for further growth. This is what I said.
Okay, great. Thanks. On energy, I already expected to see a little bit higher margin in the second quarter as
Probably the first price increases kick in a little bit, but that didn't happen. Can you talk a little bit about what to expect in energy for H2?
Yeah. The energy is the price increases. Yeah. We had, for instance, two price increase waves. The first one started in November, December 2021. Upfront, I would say to a general industry discussion already we saw that the signs concerning inflationary costs are there, and we immediately started. What do we expect here to be at the end of the year? Around a level of EUR 420 million on total sales, slightly above from that point. And the margin level, please be aware that, 85% of the total sales is more or less copper-related, so it's mostly that you have to calculate and evaluate it. Clearly over 3%, maybe even on the upper level of the 3% on the margin level. And what is it from?
Mostly, I would say on the projects and the price increases, the price increases, which at the end then make the difference, and the project, which make the difference, and we're pretty optimistic to see that one. We said it's mostly a European topic. The Chinese, the Indian, and also the South American and American entities run on good margin levels between, I would say, 6%-9% EBITDA. It's only the negative impact we have from Europe. There's another topic for Europe which also increasingly impacts EBITDA.
Maybe you can remember, we talked about a certain kind of a shift of certain capacities from Austria to Bosnia, and this is also something which is started ongoing by end of June 2022, and therefore with every month to come, this positive impact also shows some impact in the EBITDA.
Okay. 3% for the full year means about 5% margin in H2.
That's right. That's just by the margin development for the next year. For next half year.
Great. To the CapEx reduction you're guiding for next year, 2023, massive CapEx reduction. Can you give us a rough number from these EUR 90 million today? What number should we expect for next year?
It's between EUR 40 million-EUR 50 million. That's what we expect for next year. In 2023, also a year I would say EUR 40 million-EUR 60 million. Of course, the total plan is not done yet, as there are some projects, for instance, like the energy project Kai announced, or we talked over last time, maybe needs some acceleration, to be more ready and for us ready than planned originally due to the impacts of the worldwide energy issues, but in this range.
Okay. That means, when we have probably EUR 1.4 billion in sales and EUR 50 million CapEx, that's roughly 3.5%, CapEx to sales ratio. Is that also a ratio you see for the next few years between 3%-4%?
Yeah. That's.
It's a good level, but.
CapEx we
Excuse me.
Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.
No, continue, please.
Yeah.
Continue, Kai. Please. Sorry.
What you're referring to is for me, what we call the sustainable CapEx. What we need to spend as CapEx to keep our system running. Then there are some specific projects on top, as Michael and I mentioned already in terms of the recycling project and maybe also the energy project. This is the level we foresee in terms of keeping the system running. I said also for the capacity we have installed today, we are ready to deliver the mentioned sales from your side. There is no big CapEx spending needs to come to the EUR 1.4 billion.
Okay. Perfect. Then I have a question on raw material prices and the inventories. As you mentioned before, we're seeing prices coming down a bit in recent weeks from their peaks, and I wonder how that works with your clients. If you paid X back in April for some raw materials and only they deliver the parts now in August, where the input price is 30% lower than it was back in April, can you still charge the client the April price you paid or will the client demand to get market prices? How does that work? And is there a risk of inventory write-downs?
A very low risk, but let me explain it and elaborate on it segment by segment basis because it's a bit different. In energy, it's a project-based business, and here we simply, it's copper related. Copper is, for instance, highly fluctuating concerning price levels. We have seen over $10,000 as a peak for the metric ton, and now it's something around $7,700 per ton. There's highly volatile, but here it's hedged. At the end when the contract is fixed, it's hedged against the delivery date. The risk is more or less zero. There's only small impact concerning, as I said, they are slightly higher.
The copper is slightly better for us because some elements are based on the copper price. For us it's a bit favorable. Mostly we calculate with originally those topics with $6,000 per ton. Still with over $7,000, we are slightly better than what we have calculated with. In E-mobility and energy and Aerostructures, it's different because there are clauses concerning pass-through. The risk is extremely minimal. Where is there some risk concerning volatile prices? It's mostly some ingredients. Yeah. As you know that in some areas there are some supplements which are added to certain, for instance, alloys, to then deliver certain criteria which are needed strengths, durability, and end. Those are not in those.
They are calculated on a rough number only in these pass-through clauses. There is a certain care we need to be more cautious, but they are extremely minimal because they are only a certain percentage of the total material and those supplements. The rest is pass-through clauses and therefore no risk concerning the material.
Okay. Great to hear. Perfect. Last quick question. Solar energy. Your project you're doing there, do you have any idea how much of your energy needs you can cover with these solar panels?
Yes, we have. There's this focusing on Romania. As you know, the largest entities we have are in Romania. We have more or less in the meantime, with the heavy press also the four sites. We want to cover. There was almost 3,000 people working there, and we want to cover at full capacity around 70% of the total amount of electricity we use there. It's quite some amount.
When will this project in Romania be finished?
It depends, but we calculate with the end of 2023, hopefully to have then the full capacity available. It depends a bit also because we of course ask for some support on certain topics like for instance also land and also the possibility, permissions from the governments and the local governments and the state. That's why we calculated till the end of 2023 concerning having this capacity as a need.
Okay. Thank you very much.
There are no further questions at this time, and I would like to hand back to Michael Pistauer for closing comments. Please go ahead.
I would like to hand over to Kai. Yeah. I guess, we are both times, the first time in this quarterly result discussion. I thank you all that for attending, for having interest in Montana Aerospace. We think it's a thrilling development. Our key goal is once again, with the setup, which is unique in the industry, not only for Aerostructures, but also for E-mobility and also energy. With this long vertical integration, to not only elaborate on what we have, but to exceed the developments of our peers to win additional market share. Now the focus is key on the execution to over proportionately also grow our results and also cash flow. Kai, do you want to add something? I see that, there's still two questions which might be maybe, interesting also to hear.
Okay. We have a follow-up question from the line Richard Frei from ZKB. Please go ahead.
Yes. Sorry to step in again, and thanks to take that add on. The audio quality was not too good at my side while the discussion around revenue potential and capacity was ongoing. What was the number of Aerostructures? How much rev sales could be managed with the current CapEx spending?
Yeah. Plus, minus. Yeah.
Yeah.
depends always on the program and the machine which is implied in the specific topic and which one is growing faster, now around EUR 1.15 billion on total sales. For Aerostructures, around EUR 200 million. On E-mobility, I see that we are already close to full capacity utilization, and energy's portion over EUR 600 million.
Okay. The add-on on Aerostructures, is that including ASCO? Because I have in mind that they still have some spare capacity or is it excluding?
No, it's including ASCO, but if you calculate it all together, we are around EUR 2 billion on total sales, which we have as a capacity.
Okay, great. Many thanks.
There's another question.
Yes, there's another question from the line of Miro Tuzak from JMS. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, gentlemen. Can you hear me?
Yes.
Can you hear me?
That's very good. It's all clear.
Okay. Hi, Michael. Hello. Thanks for taking my questions. A bit nitty-gritty, frankly speaking on the cost lines. If we look back into 2018, 2019, we see that the material cost used to be around 60% of sales. Now during the COVID time, it went up from 60% - 65% and then 70% last year. Now in Q1, it was above 70% of sales. Now in Q2, it was already down at 65%. Now, I know that this is very hard to forecast now going forward because of Framoco and ASCO and so on. But maybe you can give a range in terms of what level of material costs you expect in the years forward.
I'm not asking for, you know, like a precise number for Q3 or for 2022, but just in the years forward, what would be like in a good scenario, a level of material cost that you're expecting? And then also in a rather bad scenario, how high could it be in a bad scenario? Maybe this is the first one, and if you agree, we take them one by one.
Yes, we could take it also offline and also maybe discuss it with the models of the analysts. The point is it's of course a bit dependent on the mix. The mix, if you see that energy business has the most material input with up to 85% material input, which we've needed to produce the sales. Aerostructures depending, but still very high margins, as you know. The only total amount percentage material input is slightly misleading. For us, it's important to reduce the material input on a segment-to-segment reporting or level. Maybe we can bring this to offline discussion then in detail. To give a total guidance, we don't give on the material.
Okay. The trend, maybe you can give guidance on the trend. We expect this number.
Yes.
to come down further going forward back to the 60% somehow in terms of
Yes, correct. It's also within the segments that, of course, with less scrap produced by ongoing high runners instead of first articles which you produce at with ramp ups over the year, we have a positive impact. It's not only the mix, but also I would say within the segment, a positive development.
Okay, cool. On the personnel cost, there was quite a steep increase there to the EUR 72 you re-reported with the new ASCO people on top. Is this the new flight level that you have, like the EUR 72 per quarter and maybe in Q4 some kind of bonuses on top of that? Is that the number that we should take into account, or was there any kind of one-off involved in Q2, which is like significant?
Not major one-offs in the Q2 or in the first half of the 2022 numbers. Flight level is okay. Please be also aware that of course, if we see already that there is a certain ramp up in certain areas around half a year upfront to the delivery of those parts and therefore the sales, we have to have hired those people rather than being able to, I would say, deliver the parts and machine the parts or produce the parts. There's always a certain upfront, which we always have to consider when we have our personnel planning and cost planning for the personnel costs. The flight level is okay.
Okay, cool. On other operating expenses, you already commented on this one. On the depreciation level, also the 2027 was mainly driven by ASCO, I believe. Is this also a kind of basis going forward to 2027, and then maybe with the CapEx that you make, then it might go up from this level?
The plus or minus fine. We guided for EUR 100 million for the total year.
Okay. You have to stick to that. The 100, that would mean at like a sequential decline.
Exactly. 2023 onwards, yes.
Okay, cool. Thanks a lot.
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you everybody for attending. We are always happy to provide you more details in different discussions, attending conferences or the incoming investors meeting, and hope to see you in person soon within one of those next meetings. Thank you for attending today.
Yeah. Also, a big thing from my side, I think. It was a pleasure to answer your interesting questions. I'm speaking on behalf of the management team, of course. I mean, we are sticking to our guidance, and we want to deliver on the guidance and the promises we make, and this is what we do, and this is what you also can expect for the future from our side. Thanks for the interesting discussion again. Have a good day. Bye-bye.