Bucher Industries AG (SWX:BUCN)
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May 13, 2026, 5:31 PM CET
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Earnings Call: H1 2023

Jul 27, 2023

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

According to my indication, it is 10 o'clock. Welcome, everybody. Thank you for joining us. I understand that we are in fierce competition with other media reports and other half-year results that are being explained, so we really appreciate that you have joined us for this session here. We think we should be able to make our comments within an hour. Afterwards, there will be a Q&A. If I say we, let me quickly welcome Manuela on my side as well to this meeting. Then we have Renate Halter, who is doing the whole video coordination in the background, as well as Saskia Rusch from corporate communication in this office. Somewhere in the background, there is also Yvonne Kühne, who most of you know. I will first make some comments on the market situation.

Afterwards, Manuela will be getting into more details on the financials. Before that, I'd like to quickly explain some organizational aspects. The interim report, the press release, the investor relations handout, have been published this morning on our website at 6:00 A.M., should be available to you overall. This video conference will be recorded, as you have been informed, right up to the moment where we will do the Q&A session. After that, we won't record anymore. We have put you all on mute. We would ask you to stay that way. I think it will help us to be clear in the communication. If there are any problems with the system or you have delays, maybe you try to turn off your video system, if it hasn't been turned off already, first of all.

Mr. Foletti, welcome. We just ask everybody to turn off the videos. It makes it a bit easier. Afterwards, if you continue to have problems, there's a phone number in the invitation, and you can dial in on that one. You should at least hear our voice again, so that you can continue with this session. If there would be any technical issues from our side, we would lose the communication, we would do exactly the same. We will join you by phone conference and then continue with our explanations on the phone. Good.

The first half year of 2023 was significant in sense of a very solid sales, but a decline in our order intake for products and for the services, albeit from a very high level in the year before. It is in line with the general economic slowdown that we see. The divisions managed to increase their output, which was due to improvements in the supply chain, parts became availability. They had production capacity that they increased over time. We were still impacted somewhat by recruiting skilled staff, especially in North America. The geopolitical and macroeconomic uncertainties obviously didn't help, so it was a bit of a mixed picture. Material prices stayed high in that respect. Interest rates continued to rise.

Because of all these challenges, I must say, I'm very pleased with the results that we have achieved, and we have surpassed our expectations. Compared to the prior year, our key figures are as follows: order intake has declined by 16% to CHF 1.6 billion. Affected were particularly Kuhn Group, Bucher Municipal, and Bucher Hydraulics. Sales grew again significantly by 9% to CHF 1.9 billion, particularly due to price increases, but also to expansion of our production capacities. Both figures were impacted by the strengthening of the Swiss franc. Sales reached 13% of growth, corrected for acquisitions and foreign exchange effects. All divisions contributed to the sales increase, especially Bucher Emhart Glass should be mentioned. They had a remarkable growth of 24% if adjusted for FX.

Some of the sales consumed part of the order book, which declined by 12% to CHF 1.7 billion from an extremely high level in 2022. The operating profit increased by a strong 21% to CHF 246 million. As a result, the operating profit margin rose again compared with already good prior year figures to 12.7%. That has to do mainly with the strong capacity utilization and then the passing on of our cost increases. The group's net profit for the period reached CHF 199 million, an increase of 21% overall. On this chart, you can see the evolution of the previous 12 months up to mid-year. The blue line depicts the order intake that has been declining in the past 12 months.

The red line shows how we have been ramping up sales in the past 12 months, also to reduce our record-high order book that has peaked at CHF 2.1 billion at the end of last year, and now is slowly coming down to the CHF 1.7 billion that we had mentioned. Today, the order book is at about five months of sales, which provides valuable visibility, obviously, in an increasingly uncertain environment. The demand is declining, but it is still overall at a solid level, at a good level. Keep in mind, last year, the demand was extraordinarily high, at not a sustainable level. I will now comment the results of the divisions. I'll start with Kuhn Group. Demand for agricultural machinery has decreased in the first half of 2023, after two very strong agricultural years, huh?

Order intake declined significantly by 27%, especially in the second quarter, which is a low season quarter, albeit. I will comment on reasons for this decrease in the first half year. First of all, I'd like to mention Brazilian market that has been cooling off from a hyper cycle, and that was to be expected. They are now seeing record harvests, full grain stocks, and declining grain prices. That's one element. The second element is that subsidy programs are weak despite high inflation. If we look at the overall grain price development, you can see that in Europe, that is the orange dotted line. The wheat price has been declining in the past couple of months. Here, you see the past 1.5 years in the dotted line.

Importantly, the past couple of months, grain price has been decreasing in Europe. Stock levels are rising here in Europe, and yield expectations are up again, which has obviously an impact on the price. Crop prices in the U.S., that would be the green dotted line for soya or the blue dotted line for corn, are holding up better. We can see this in our orders for tillage tools over in our U.S. facilities. If we look at the right chart, you'll see the milk prices, which is another important element for us, in the key markets, in the European markets, but as well, the same also in the, in the U.S. market. You can now see a decline of the milk price to a, what I would call, a more normal pre-pandemic level.

That had an impact on our hay and forage tool demand. There's one other element that I would like to mention that is weighing in more and more now. Those are the interest rates. Many farmers bought their farms with credits, or they also buy their machinery with credits, and the interest rates are now putting pressure on farm income, and they are discouraged somewhat to do new investments into machinery that has become pretty expensive in the meanwhile. Overall, our dealers can see less retail sales. Matter of fact, the machinery that we are delivering is rebuilding the inventory of the dealer network that was completely depleted last year. Possibly, farmers are also holding off a bit with buying from dealers as they might expect more rebates to be offered as supplies are becoming available.

Remember, last year they were just buying what they could get. Now, it is a bit of a different situation. You can choose again, and this correction is happening, I would say, to a more normal level as we had anticipated. A bit more, quicker as well, but we should not forget the base effects that we're looking at here. I have a small technical issue. Please give me a minute. Good. Thank you much. Excuse that delay. All in all, and in contradiction, and continuing with Kuhn Group, to that decline in orders, our sales still increased by 7% in the first half of the year due to its continued strong order book and the improved production conditions. The expected sales decline in Brazil was more than offset by sales increases in Europe and North America, thanks to improved production efficiency.

Parts did become more available. It's not yet completely resolved, but also due to price increases. The shortage of skilled labor continues to be an issue, especially in North America. I'd mentioned that before. Overall, the operating profit margin exceeded the good results achieved in the prior year and achieved 13.4% of sales. The outlook for the whole Kuhn Group is more mixed, I would say. The division expects sales volumes in agricultural machinery to weaken, but at a high level in the second half of the year. In Brazil, a significant market adjustment is in progress after the period of the record highs. In North America, we should see stable development or eventually even an improvement. In Europe, lower agricultural commodity prices, the reduced producer margins, and continuously high interest rates in some key regions are having an adverse effect.

Thanks to the strong first half, Kuhn Group expects its sales and operating profit margins to be in line with 2022, which was a pleasing year, by the way. I'm changing over to Bucher Municipal. In the first half of 2023, demand for municipal vehicles was characterized by a decline at a high level. Bucher Municipal's order intake fell by 21% compared to the prior year period, which included several large orders, like the City of Barcelona or the German Air Force. Fewer orders were recorded for sweepers and sewer cleaning vehicles. The financial difficulties of England's privatized utility companies, Thames Water was in the news just recently, are also affecting demand or creating uncertainty. However, demand for refuse collection vehicles in Australia has picked up again.

Compared to prior years' level, and demand for winter maintenance equipment, as well as maintenance service and spare parts, has also developed positively. The supply chain eased somewhat, and sales significantly exceeded the prior year's period by 12%. The order book consequently decreased at a high level and still has a range of more than seven months. Preparation for the gradual introduction of a new ERP solution are progressing well. The operating profit margin recovered from the low prior year period and achieved 5.3% of sales. This was due in part to improved production efficiency and strong growth in sweepers and maintenance services, as well as price increases. The outlook for Bucher Municipal for the whole year is as follows: We expect demand to decline at a high level in the financial year 2023.

Overall, its procurement-related challenges, remember, they need chassis, and they're still a bit scarce in some areas, are likely to persist to some degree. Thanks to the division's exceptionally strong order book, it expects sales to grow slightly, with electrified products contributing to this growth. The operating profit margin is likely to recover as a result of production efficiency. I'm switching over to Bucher Hydraulics. The hydraulic market declined at a high level during the first half of 2023. Bucher Hydraulics order intake did not escape this general trend and fell by 10% compared to the prior year period. Demand in the agricultural machinery market segment remained at a high level, as did demand in the mobile electric drive technology business. The latter is related to an acquisition made in 2021.

This unit provides inverters and converters, and inverters are used to invert the DC power that comes from a battery into AC power that is needed by the consumers. At the moment, it's mainly sold to bus suppliers and there's a strong trend going on in electrifying buses. This boom we are profiting from, we almost sold as much in the first half year this year than we sold last year in this segment. The business units was also provide solutions to trucks in the future, as soon as that boom kicks in, probably in one or two years from now. We're pretty happy and bullish about that segment. The decrease in order intake overall for Bucher Hydraulics was mainly due to China and North America.

Demand varied in Europe, but remained satisfactory overall, and the division's capacity utilization remained very high. The very high order book at the end of 2022 fell somewhat in the first half of the year, but remained high at the end of the reporting period. The shortages in staff and machine hours still caused some delays for some products. Despite this, the division increased its sales. The division increased its sales by 3%. This was driven in particular by significant growth in Europe and India. The division's operating profit margins rose compared to the prior year period and achieved amazingly 14.9%, thanks to higher sales, a good cost structure, and its ability to pass on the material price increases to the customers.

The outlook for Bucher Hydraulics for the full year 2023 are as follows: It expects China to recover only slowly. Demand in Europe is likely going to remain at a high level, while the situation in North America should stabilize in the second half of the year. Total annual sales should be on par with those of 2022. The good operating profit margin achieved in the prior year should be achieved again, despite significant increase in personal cost. Next, I will give you some details about Bucher Emhart Glass. The demand for glass containers remained very high in the first half of 2023, not least due to the environmental considerations. Order intake remains on par with the prior year's level.

Despite a slight easing in recent months, global capacity for glass container manufacturing remained tight, and this prompted customers of Bucher Emhart Glass to modernize and to expand their existing plants. New production facilities were also planned, especially in South America, where also, obviously, also energy is cheaper and available. Energy efficiency considerations and the shortage of skilled labor are relevant factors in this industry that encourage plant operators to equip their glass container forming plant with innovative technologies that come from Bucher Emhart Glass. Sales again increased significantly for Bucher Emhart Glass by 18%. The order book remained at the prior year's high level. The operating profit margin exceeded prior year's already very high level and achieved 20.0%. This was driven by the high capacity utilization, by the favorable product mix.

I'm thinking of also sufficient spare parts supply and then a positive currency effect, particularly from the Swedish crown. The encouraging business results in China also contributed to this. The outlook for Bucher Emhart Glass for the full year 2023 is as follows: We expect the demand for glass container manufacturing equipment to normalize, but at a high level, despite macroeconomic uncertainties and rising interest rates.... Luckily, the energy prices are coming back down again. That helps our customers. Capacity utilization should remain very good, but there are some risks due to the persistent difficulties in procuring electronic components on our side. The division anticipates a slight increase in sales and operating profit margin compared to 2022's very high level. Bucher Emhart Glass has a strong market position and has consistently improved EBIT margins in the past five years.

We have therefore increased our long-term, over-the-cycle target for this division from 10%- 12% EBIT margin. I will now turn to Bucher Specials. Bucher Specials markets presented a mixed picture in the first half of 2023, but remained at a good level overall. Bucher Vaslin, they make these grape presses. Bucher Vaslin's order intake remained at the prior year's high level. We had a good trend in the Northern Hemisphere. Sales grew significantly once again, also because some of the deliveries happened earlier. Bucher Unipektin, they make mainly presses for apples, but also freeze-drying equipment and so on, recorded a positive result for the first half year. This was mainly due to its good order book and the beginning of the year, and its consolidation of the Polish company that was acquired right in the last week of 2022.

The integration is going in line with our plans. Order intake and sales overall increased significantly for this business unit. For Bucher Landtechnik, the market was down overall. Farmers' willingness to invest here in Switzerland remained low in the first half of the year. This was due to the high investment volumes in recent years, and the uncertainty caused by significantly increased prices for the machinery at a time of mounting pressure on farm income. As of first of July, Jetter was renamed to Bucher Automation in order to benefit from the strong Bucher brand. The positive trend from the prior year remained intact in this business unit. This continued to be driven by the dynamic development of Bucher Emhart Glass and the cooperation with Bucher Hydraulics for these inverters that I explained to you before.

Overall, for Bucher Specials, for these four business units altogether, an increase in order intake was recorded on a par, or actually, an order intake was recorded at the par with the prior year's period. Its sales and operating profit margin showed encouraging growth over the prior year. The outlook for 2023 for Bucher Specials is as follows: the market environment for Bucher Vaslin, for Bucher Unipektin, and for Bucher Automation is expected to remain favorable in the second half of the year. For Bucher Landtechnik, however, it's likely to remain rather cautious. The division expects its sales to increase, partly as a result of this consolidation of Bucher Unipektin in Poland, that acquisition that I mentioned before, and its operating profit margin should be in line with the 2022 figures. I would like to hand over to Manuela Suter.

She will present the financial situations and the results, and then I'll take your questions.

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

Thank you, Jacques. Good morning. A tour of our production facilities is always a great pleasure, but in recent months, it was even more exciting. With a very strong team, all divisions managed a high utilization, and we were able to fulfill the customer needs with our high-quality products. We had high utilization, improved production conditions, and the ability to pass on high material and other operating costs, which are some of the main drivers of our excellent results. This leads me to the first slide. We have here the return on net operating assets, with an excellent high 30% return on net operating assets, above our long-term target of 20%, and clearly above our weighted average cost of capital.

On this waterfall chart, we have these three components, but in summary, the increase, around one percentage point, is due to our strong, profitable growth, leading to a high EBIT, partly compensated with a higher NOA, I will come to that. Third, the tax rate or the tax impact was not significant. The first part, the performance. Overall capacity utilization remained very strong. Once again, we were able to increase our sales by 9% as a result of mid-to-high single-digit price increases and an expansion of our production capacity. As you know or are aware of, roughly 60% of our sales is in euros, so therefore, the currency impact of -5 percentage points was mainly a result of the weaker euro. The operating profit margin of 12.7 was 1.3 percentage points above prior year.

This was the result of good capacity utilization, higher production efficiency, thanks to an improvement in our supply chain, and the consequent price management. The strong operating results of the agricultural machinery business, and as Jacques also mentioned, the glass container industry also helped. Compared with the first half of 2022, the net profit for the period increased by 10% to CHF 200 million . The financial result was mainly influenced by higher interest rates and the positive result of our short-term financial investments in Brazil. The effective tax rate was more or less in line with full year 2022. For this year, for the full 2023, we expect a tax rate in the same range. The second part, our net operating assets.

As you can see on the right side of this graph, the level of net operating assets on average increased by 19%. The volume-related increase in net working capital was amplified by investments in internal and also external growth. Compared with year-end 2022, the net operating assets per closing increased by roughly CHF 270 million, mainly due to seasonal factors and higher investment. Additionally, the exceptional high level of advance payments at year-end were reduced over the last months in connection with the deliveries of our machines. The seasonal increase in our net working capital had also a negative impact on our free cash flow, which can clearly be seen on the next slide. We have here the waterfall chart of our free cash flow. On the right side, a negative free cash flow of CHF 218 million.

As mentioned before, the high outflow of cash is mainly due to the seasonal increase in net working capital, CHF 259 million, higher investments, CHF 59 million, and the dividend payment, CHF 134 million. The cash used for the investing, or in other words, our capital expenditure, amounted to CHF 59 million. The main focus, besides several machines, were the construction project of Bucher Hydraulics and of Bucher Automation in Germany, as well as Bucher Emhart Glass in Malaysia. Depending on the ability of our supplier to deliver the machines, to deliver on time, we expect investments for the full year of around CHF 150 million. The net cash situation.

At the beginning of the year, we started with around CHF 450 million, and with the negative free cash flow just explained before, we ended up with net cash of CHF 30 million at the end of June. Our outlook and the seasonal pattern, we expect the net cash level at year-end of around CHF 500 million. To summarize, we achieved a high return on net operating asset of 30% due to a strong, profitable growth, which goes hand in hand also with our high utilization. With the solid financial position, we can ensure financial stability and, with other words, a very solid financial position, which continues to secure our flexibility, which is all the more important in times of a weakening demand.

With that, I would like to hand over to Jacques to say a bit more about our outlook.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Thank you, Manuela. I talked about the divisions, and I already mentioned the outlook for each of the divisions. I would now summarize once more for the whole group. The group expects the demand, we call them, to normalize further over the second half of the year, starting from a good level and an increasingly uncertain environment. The high order book means that capacities will remain strongly utilized in this year, although weaker than in the strong prior year period, especially the second half of last year. Difficulties in procurement are likely to persist for specific items, and we're talking mainly about electronics. Increased personnel and other operating costs will increase pressure on the margins in the second half of the year, some salary negotiations are only effective for the second half.

Negative currency translation effects should be offset by price increases in our assumptions. Overall, the group expects sales in the range of 2022, as well as a slightly higher operating profit margin. Accordingly, the group's profit for the year should be slightly higher than the prior year's period's high level. This would be our explanations for the divisions and the situation that we have and our outlook as well. I would now hand over to the Q&A situation. If you have a question, we would ask you to raise your electronic hand. We see already two or three are happening, and I will pick these questions in sequence. Start right away with Tobias Fahrenholz. Please unmute your microphone, eventually your camera.

Tobias Fahrenholz
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Stifel

Yes. Actually, it should work. Hi. First on the glass business, I mean, quite strong performance here. Thanks to these good results, you now have a quite a big gap to your 12% target level. Are there any kind of special components in there at the moment, which could fall away next year? Could we expect to see it at a quite high level for the time being? That would be my first one. The second one, maybe you could comment a little bit more on pricing. What have you seen here, especially on group level and division by division? Has this been kind of margin neutral? Is it going to stay the same until the end? Maybe some thoughts here.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

I'll leave the pricing question to Manuela. Okay, I think we have some data there. Maybe on the glass side, at the moment, what is nice for our production is, we have a production planning that lasts almost like 12 months in advance, and we have these, what we call production slots. Once you start assembling these huge machinery, that lot, that space is blocked. What can happen, and what has happened is the fact that suddenly a customer says, "I don't need it right away, you know, I have three months delay for my, for the factory building, and now please hold with that order". That kind of ties down capacity, that is running basically at idle, and we can only deliver it later.

These are the risks that we have in a neutralized market. At the moment, we didn't have that. Customers were extremely happy to get the machine as quick as possible, that allowed us really to have a perfect capacity utilization. Is that already gonna happen in 2024, that we start seeing shifts of these assemblies happening? Maybe, I cannot exclude it, and but that would probably be a main factor that would bring down profit margins from the very high levels that we have at the moment. That would be, I think, the, the explanation and the 2024 outlook. We see a little bit of tightening in the market, and if that will start canceling or delaying orders, then we will get into a less efficient mode, which will bring down the margins. That will be the explanation.

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

Those were Bucher Municipal. Maybe also to add, they benefited from a better Swedish krona. It was a bit more on the weak side, the hour costs are in Swedish krona and sales in euros. I would say that also makes roughly 150 basis points as well. As also Jacques mentioned before, the mix, the product mix, we had really high with services and spare parts. With regard to the pricing, let's start with the sales and with Kuhn. I would say Kuhn was the division with the highest price increase and had an impact on the sales as well. It was around mid to high single digit for Kuhn in the first half year.

Whereas for the other divisions, I would say it's more in the mid-single digit range, or for Bucher Specials even, yeah, it was also mid-single digit. All in all, for the group level, mid to single digit in the sales, partly compensated by negative currency impacts of the five percentage points that I mentioned before. For the full year, I would say it's more the prices are coming down. First of all, what we see that in particular for Kuhn Group, we see already that also some competitors give some rebates, in particular, for example, in Brazil.

This will have an impact, it's clearly the high basis impact from last year that also came into the picture, which will lead more to a mid-single-digit price increase in sales, as we mentioned in our outlook, will almost be offset with negative currency impact for the full year. This is with regard to the sales, I think as we mentioned with regard to the margin, raw material was more than compensated by price increases, it's also the result in a exceptional or in a very good EBIT margin. More and more, what we see is also increasing personal costs, as Jacques mentioned in the outlook, which will have a bit pressure on the second part. We also have the seasonal impact that we see in our margin. Normally, the first half year is stronger than the second half year.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Good. Thank you much, Manuela. I would hand over the question now, or the microphone, to Mr. Foletti. You have to unmute your microphone.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Yes, thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

That's good.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Thank you for taking my questions, and I'm seeing you in good shape there in the office. I just had two questions, if I may. One on hydraulics. This order intake was still low, but it seems to me that the decline is sort of slowing down. Is that a correct assessment? Does this indicate the end of or bottoming of the cycle there, or is it too early to say anything here?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

It's always a bit of mixed picture with Bucher Hydraulics. We look at the order and take it to. Where we expect further slowing is obviously in agriculture. We're not doing so bad, we expect that to slow down. On the industrial level, we were profiting from this electrified bus systems. There we had growth. There, the boom is continuing, maybe not quite as steep as we saw now in the past 12 months, which was amazing. On the general hydraulic industrial cycle, it's really a mixed picture. The question mark is, what is happening in China? Is that going to pick up or not? That's one question, I think. We assume that the U.S. could pick up quicker now.

That's, that has been on the slow side. At the end, it's really a mixed picture. I would agree, it's not that we're standing in front of a cliff and looking everywhere downwards. It is some elements could still slow down further. Some elements, there's potential to be, for it to improve again, and maybe it's a good sign because it's an early cycle. It's the early cycle part of our business portfolio. It is really by region to be looked at and applications as well.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Yes, great. Thank you. The second would be on on Emhart. A couple here. First of all, you mentioned tight capacities at your clients. Can you maybe give an indication, if you can qualitatively quantify, how much you think that this under capacity is? Has it worsened? Has it improved over the last quarters?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

No, I have no numbers available, and it probably would be by region as well. Usually glass is not shipped globally. It is continental, probably as a as a main business. No, I cannot give you any number as such. Yeah.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

All right. The second I wanted to ask on, also on Emhart. You also mentioned that one of the reason they invest is because of sustainability reasons, I imagine, because people say that it is better than plastic. How is that measured, really? Because in terms of energy consumption, it's really not the best.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Yeah, I mean, it's a matter of priorities. That's true. E-energy consumption really depends. If you manage to sell a fleet of bottles that are gonna be rotating, being refilled, then it is the best, even comparing to plastic, because a fleet like this can easily do 30-35 tours or rounds before it gets remelted again and reused again. As soon as you have that set up, energy-wise, it is absolutely justifiable. Obviously, it's a bit more questionable when you have a beer bottle that is being emptied and thrown away right away. That's another story. The returnable glass is energy-wise, not a problem. Yeah.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

All right. Very last thing, on Emhart as well, on the, on the new target of 12%. I understand what you have been saying just now regarding the potential reduction next year, 12% really doesn't seem very ambitious for a company that has been above that for many quarters. The question would be, are you not too easy on your management in a way, to give them a so low target?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Do you really believe that's gonna be the budget for next year? No, no.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

No, but if this is-

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

This is a planning-.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

the long-term target.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Yeah. No, this is it's a planning figure for us in the long term. It is over the cycle, so on high cycles, we clearly expect more. We also have to be realistic. We are in cyclical business, it can also go down. That's why we set it to 12. I understand your question completely. Obviously, I also say, "Hey, we are at 20%. What is that going on?" .We don't see that really as an ambition. It is more really a planning figure. The ambition is higher, that's for sure. The budget won't be at 12%, I can assure you that.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Okay, good. Thanks.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

[Miss Ivan?]

Speaker 9

Good morning. I would have more of a follow-up, especially concerning Kuhn Group. I think with the turn of the year, you were cautiously optimistic there. I mean, you mentioned the drivers that are leading to the current situation, which sounds a bit less optimistic. I was wondering, what was for you, I mean, the main negative surprise there? You also mentioned pricing, co-competitors are giving or starting to give rebates. Is that also something that you are seeing on your end going forward? That would be kind of the main question, and then just a small question around CapEx. Can you remind us what you are seeing for this year? We've seen that pick up, yeah, what is your current expectation for the full year? Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Okay. I will leave the CapEx question to Manuela. Yeah, I think the element that surprised us more is the speed of the slowdown in the agricultural business and then the effect on, especially, also the effect on the European market, and these are the two elements. What we did see is. It's not the most important quarter of the year, the second quarter, but there we really saw how the dealers didn't manage to sell through anymore and that they're now collecting the machines into their stock. That is an element that happened quicker and harder than we had anticipated. We anticipated Brazil, for example, that was not a surprise, but here in Europe, it slowed down quicker than what we had thought.

That is, I think, the element, and that it happens for different reasons. Now we have to see, is it just kind of a readjusting? Bear in mind, we had some 2 very high cycle years, so a lot of them bought new machinery. Is it kind of a readjustment? Is it kind of a readjustment of expectations as well? Sometimes when there's too much uncertainty, people freeze, and then they wait for all the elements to stabilize until they start making buying decisions again. Are we in this kind of a phase of freeze before they continue? That is the element that we have to see, but that came a bit harder than we thought so at the end of last year. Concerning CapEx, I would hand over to Manuela.

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

Maybe to the question of the pricing as well, the rebates.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Oh, sorry, yeah. Yeah, forgot that. Yeah, we have to expect price increases. You know, that can be in all kind of different forms. I mean, first of all, the dealers are handing over price increase, price decreases or rebates to their farmers. The farmers might also request, for example, better financing conditions. That would be also in collaboration with banks and so on. Or are there payment terms that are different? There are all kind of different shapes and forms of the way basically, the price can come down over time. We expect that there will be more agility by our direct competitors in the second half of the year, and we expect also that we will have to follow here and there.

It's difficult to predict, and we're usually not the initiator of this kind of a round. You have to follow the market to some extent. There, most likely we'll get into more normal waters again, whereas last year it was nothing about price decrease, nothing about rebates. It was all about, can they get the machine?

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

With regard to CapEx, as mentioned before, we spent around CHF 60 million in the first half year. Given the last 10 years, normally spend one third in the first half year and two third in the second half year. For the full year, this year, we expect around CHF 150 million. It has also to do with an improvement in the supply chain situation, also from our suppliers, as we now get more machines that we already ordered last year. We had some major projects going on. For example, in Klettgau, for Bucher Hydraulics, a construction project, for Bucher Automation in Marbach, Germany, a new building and also started this year, the new building on construction site for Bucher Emhart Glass in Malaysia. All in all, for this year, around 150, but also it depends a bit on the ability to receive the machines.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Thank you. Welcome, Mr. Vogel. Welcome.

Sebastian Vogel
Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Good morning. I have three questions. I would ask them one by one. The first one is with regard to the order momentum. Have you seen in any of your segments that the average of the quarter was materially different from the exit rates there? That would be great if you can share your thoughts.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Of any of the divisions had a stronger slowdown in Q2, or what is your question, sorry?

Sebastian Vogel
Equity Research Analyst, UBS

No, no. That the order momentum on a sort of a monthly basis, if I look at and compared versus the quarter average, that it was sort of going down, that June was particularly weak compared to the average, or June was particularly strong to the average, to get a bit of sense of development there.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Yeah, nothing alarming. It was no stop. Yeah. I mean, the slowdown accelerated in the second quarter of this year. That is true, but it's not like June was that big culprit, and it was a bit through the months, actually, so yeah, cannot say that there's no sign up for June. Yeah.

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

It's also important to note that the second quarter of, in, particularly in the agricultural business, is normally the weakest quarter for Kuhn Group. It's really you're waiting for the third quarter with regards to order intake. Yeah, there are no specific movements from May to June, no, to July.

Sebastian Vogel
Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Got it. If you stay with Kuhn in that regard, you mentioned already dealer inventories. What is your view there on European dealer inventories compared to the sort of the long-term average? Are we sort of on that range, or are we already beyond that one, so that the inventories are already to a bit higher level and therefore would be a concern for you going forward? Actually, we still below, and therefore there's still enough room to put more stuff into stock, so to say?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Yeah. No, we would just we anticipate the dealer stocks to be roughly at normal levels now. Kind of rebounded back to what we would call, I don't know, the 2019 level or so, as the pre-hype level. Yeah.

Sebastian Vogel
Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Got it. The third and last one is on the backlog and the support you get from there. How long do you think the current backlog can support your top line? Will it be some further two quarters or actually even lasting in terms of your pipeline management into the first quarter of next year? How much sort of... What's the thinking there?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

It should last for this year. I think that should be okay. I think the big question will be about our pre-order season, which we usually have in Europe. That comes Q3 is a strong order quarter just because we have a pre-order program where they can order for next year, for the next season. They get rebates by doing so. That, of course, is gonna be the big test as well. Are they willing to now invest money into the future business or not? I think in the sense of order book that we can work on this year, we're still fine.

Sebastian Vogel
Equity Research Analyst, UBS

Perfect. Many thanks. That's been all my questions then.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Thank you very much as well. We continue, Seb?

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Yeah. Hi, I have questions relating to Kuhn and to Hydraulics. I start with Kuhn. We had the latest results from John Deere. John Deere still expects industry growth of 5% in Europe, 10% U.S., flat in Latin America. That is on unit terms for this year. If one includes 5% price, that would imply, like, industry growth of 10, maybe 15% for this year. I would like to know what your view is on industry growth and what that means for the market share situation. That would be my first question. Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Well, the element that we have seen is, we look at tractor registrations, which is the indicator for us. We can see that in Europe, it's cooling down, but in the U.S., we still have growth, especially for the big tractors, the big ag tractors. That makes sense in the overall picture, where we have stable grain prices in the U.S., so the farmers seem less uncertain about the future than in Europe. They seem to be still investing into bigger machinery, from at least as we see the registrations. That then would maybe be plausible for the 10% growth overall. Bear in mind, they also had problems delivering last year, so the growth is maybe also just fulfilling an order book that they have.

In Europe, grain production or crop production is more under pressure. That we have seen as well. We're not quite sure, latest CEMA indications show actually that one is a lot more pessimistic here in Europe, especially. I don't know how they would justify the 5% growth, you would have to ask John Deere at the end. Here I would be a bit more skeptical. Maybe it's the order book that they still have, and they can deliver, but that would be about it, as I would judge it. Now, bear in mind, for them, crop production is extremely important. Probably it's about 80% of their business.

For us, it is about half and half, we are more into dairy and meat production, or just as much into that segment as we are into crop production. In that segment, at least on the dairy side, is suffering more than crop production. That's why probably the impact on our side, on Kuhn, is a bit more higher than what we would expect for John Deere.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Understood. I stay with Deere for the second question. You know, John Deere and other OEMs, they try with their telematics to kind of increase the data transfer between tractor and implement, between the harvester and then the next seeding period, and so on. Do you see incremental pressure from the large OEMs that try to squeeze you out in terms of the electronics needed on the implement, or is that still a very stable market situation? I would like to have some insight there. Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

I don't know if I can generalize it. I must say John Deere is doing a pretty good job in developing electronics. They have quite a team working on it. It's probably the most integrated solution that becomes available. The others, I think, are still lagging. That's a bit my personal opinion. The other element is, though, that the whole telematics, the adoption rate is still on the low side. It will come. For me, there's no question it must come. Regulations in Europe are pushing a bit in that direction as well. That's helping. The adoption rate is a lot slower than we had anticipated a couple of years ago. Are they trying to push us out? Well, everybody's trying to provide the best solution.

There are some industry activities going on to ensure interchangeability of data. It's a fluid area, John Deere is playing a good game, and others are trying to come along, but they will probably more associate themselves with the market standards that are becoming available now for data interaction. That's as much as I can say. Obviously, would have to go into depth for each one of them.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

You don't say you lose market share currently against the implement makers that come from OEM? John Deere's balers-

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

No.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

versus your balers, or John Deere's seeders versus your dealers, you don't see market share change at the moment?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

No, I have no indication of that.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Matter of fact, we also have an online version called MyKUHN.com, that provides actually good solutions for the farmers. We see the sign-on rates, which are continuously rising for these platforms, somehow we're playing along, that's for sure. I have no indication that we're losing because of that game.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Understood. My last question is on hydraulics. You mentioned, I think still capacity utilization issues in the U.S. or adding staff in the U.S. I think Kuhn is a similar situation. I would like to know how much staff you have and how much you would like to have, to just have, let's say, fluent output and good capacity utilization instead of 110% utilization. What's the situation there? Because it has been going on for probably 18 months or maybe even longer.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

That's true, and it's not only us having the same issues. But to be honest, I'm just thinking, is there any logical number that I could give you and say, well, it's 10% more, 15% more? Probably in that range. I mean, what you want to do is you want to kind of balance all the production factors that you have. You have machinery hours, you have basically space, logistical space, and so on, and all the supply chain issues that come along also in the warehouse, and then you have man-hours. The man-hours is a limiting factor at the moment.

I'm not capable of telling you, "Well, in this factory, I would need 15% more employees, and then, all the other limiting factors would be at par, and we would roll out at maximum capacity." Yeah, I'm sorry, and then it would be really by facility as well. I don't have these numbers on hand. We can make calculations, but I don't have it.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay. Is there any progress there?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

It is getting better. Yeah, it is getting better, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was horrible right after Corona in 2021. 2022 kind of released a bit. I mean, obviously, we had to also adapt to the new market conditions, which meant higher salaries, and we did so. We are finding people again. The... What was amazing in 2022 was a turnover rate that we had in with employees. They came, they worked for a couple of days, then they found a job which paid CHF 0.50 more, and then they left again. That was incredible at an incredible high rate, and that makes you inefficient as well.

Once you can get staff, you can stabilize, you train them, you just let them work, that obviously also helps for capacity utilization because they're more effective once they are introduced into the job.

Sebastian Kuenne
Equity Research Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Understood. Thank you very much.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Thank you. Walter Bamert, yeah .

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

Hello, everybody. You mentioned the labor situation in the U.S. and the, from there, for the group overall, can you guide me on the labor cost inflation with regard to the timing throughout the year and with the margin effect?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Well, I mean, let's put it that way. I think one of the, or a lot of employees are working in France for us, and there, the negotiation round is such that you have increases usually in Q2 of the year, and then one more in November. That's usually a twofold increase.

I would say that is the biggest lever that we would see in personnel costs on our side. Other countries, I mean, we talk about Switzerland, it's the beginning of the year, but here the inflation wasn't that high, and the increase wasn't, was accordingly. I would say that was probably the biggest kick in on personnel costs, that we would look at the numbers. The American situation is very fluid. I mean, you hire, you bring in, more people, they are at a higher market price, then you eventually start adjusting your existing staff. That is a bit more fluid and less to the point of the year.

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

You would say we have about one quarter of higher salary cost already included in the figures, and there are two more to come.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

That would-

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

Without being significantly higher than in Q2?

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

Yeah. For the full year, as we mentioned, we expect mid-single-digit salary increases for the full year on average. Yes, as you mentioned, I would say the first quarter was not yet that affected. The second quarter was already affected a little bit, and the pressure is increasing. The exact number on the EBIT margin, I think that's too difficult to say, but yes, there will be a higher pressure in the second half year.

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

Okay, then a follow-up on Kuhn Group, where, yeah, everything turns out a little bit more pessimistic. Could that be under the base effect that last year saw Q2, a very strong, unusual order intake? Does that make you also more pessimistic, or could we see that order intake is almost balanced again for the last two quarters?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Well, that's a bit the question mark that we have, but definitely the base effect is there. I mean, we had a very strong 2022. There's no doubt. It seemed people were still worried about getting enough machinery, so also the pre-order season was pretty good. That's what we're delivering now. As I mentioned before, I think it seems like we're a bit in a state of shock at the moment to see, okay, everything is changing. How is it gonna continue? Here in Europe, we have the other element of the wheat deliveries out of Ukraine. Will they be dumped onto the European market, or will they find a way through the passage to be sold on the global market?

These are all question marks that come into this equation, and that's why it's a bit difficult to make predictions.

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

Okay. Are there any dealers trying to cancel orders?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

No, we have not seen that, substantially yet. Not an issue.

Walter Bamert
Financial Analyst, Zürcher Kantonalbank

Okay. Thank you very much.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Thank you. Mr. Voermaelan?

Bastien Voermaelan
Financial Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Good morning. I just would like to focus a little bit on your, on Kuhn and the dairy side of the business, because what we are seeing in Europe, I think, is increasingly politics getting involved in agriculture because of the environment. Governments have committed to reducing the environmental impact of each country, and therefore, they're looking also at agriculture, and therefore, dairy. Given that, so therefore, is the uncertainty that you're seeing in dairy, is it politically driven, and therefore, you don't know how long this could continue?

It might continue actually for a very long time because it's very hard to reach an agreement because you have the farmers' lobby, obviously, which is very powerful in a number of countries, and against the pressure of reducing the environmental impact of especially of the dairy side of agriculture. I mean, is there a real risk that this uncertainty and therefore impact on demand for your equipment is going to continue beyond, well into 2024 and 2025?

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

The other question is, does it have an impact on our equipment or just on our customers, the dairy farmers? I think that the big discussion on the dairy side is also how to bring out the manure, and how to take care of that as well, and what technologies will you be using, and, you know, using injection technology, or can you spray it onto the fields? There's a push for more organic fertilizing, which would help that whole thing, but they don't want it to be sprayed in the open. But we don't have any of this machinery. That machinery is sold by... There are a lot of Dutch, actually, suppliers or Belgian suppliers.

There's only an indirect effect on our customers, and then eventually they, I don't know, have to invest in something else. The uncertainty, I would say yes, it's increasing. We also see that some subsidies, and that's an element I didn't mention before, is that subsidy programs are being reduced for farmers again. I mean, after the Corona element, there was a strong push for subsidies into farming. Also in Brazil, I mentioned that subsidy program from the Brazilian government was not as high as one had hoped. That is also weighing in into the farmer's decision: should he invest or should he not invest? Your point is justified, just not for our products, but for our customers, yes.

Bastien Voermaelan
Financial Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Good. I would Michael Roost had written a question, and I would quickly suggest that we will continue on that side, and then we'll come back for further questions. I think, Manuela, you would cover net workinging capital.

Manuela Suter
CFO, Bucher Industries

Yeah. Reducing overall net working capital in the second half in order to improve cash flow. Yes, as I mentioned, I think it's important that the first half is always. We have a seasonal pattern. In the second half year, we clearly expect a decline in net working capital. As I mentioned before, we expect a net cash situation of around CHF 500 million for the full year. That implies a positive cash inflow in the second half year of around CHF 280 million. This is clearly coming from net working capital. We expect improved inventory level. It's still high, but also accounts receivables.

On the other hand, we will have less advanced payment, or we expect less advanced payment as it's related to the order intake of Kuhn Group, which is expected with the order intake coming down, as we have seen in the first half year, that we will not repeat this excellent, extraordinary high level of the advance payment that we had at the year-end. It will be a mix, but clearly an improvement of net working capital in the second half year. Just also from a seasonal point of view, as we have seen in the past over several years.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

I hope that answers the question, and the other one was about order cancellations. As I said, no, we didn't see any order cancellations so far that are worthwhile mentioning. It seems like we have one hand open, and it's, Yeah, it's Alessandro Foletti once more.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Yes, thank you for taking the question. Sorry, it was also on customer advances, so it has been just answered. Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

Okay, good. At that moment, I think we're pretty much on time here at least 11:05. I don't see any hands anymore. Thank you for joining us. Again, we are aware that you had a lot of other informations that you have to cover as well. We appreciate you being there. We wish you a good summertime. Hopefully, some of you still get some vacation, and we will be in touch at least next year again for the full year results, huh? Thank you very much, everybody. Bye-bye.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Thank you.

Jacques Sanche
CEO, Bucher Industries

All the best.

Alessandro Foletti
Senior Research Analyst, Octavian

Thank you. Bye-bye.

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