eMemory Technology Inc. (TPEX:3529)
Taiwan flag Taiwan · Delayed Price · Currency is TWD
4,335.00
-370.00 (-7.86%)
May 8, 2026, 1:30 PM CST
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Earnings Call: Q1 2023

May 10, 2023

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Afternoon, welcome to eMemory's first quarter 2023 webcast investor conference. Today, we have our Chairman, Dr. Charles Hsu, President, Mr. Michael Ho, Head of IR, Miss Li-Jeng Chen, and the Director of the Finance Department, Miss Teresa Kuo. The format of today's event will be as follows. First, eMemory's Chairman, Dr. Charles Hsu, will give an opening remark. Afterwards, President Mr. Michael Ho will summarize our operations in the first quarter of 2023, followed by our business outlook. Dr. Charles Hsu will talk about how PUF-based solutions secure ChatGPT and AI. We will go into Q&A session where our management team will be ready to answer your questions. Please feel free to submit your questions in the input box on the webcast window throughout the conference.

As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and a webcast replay will be available within three hours after the conference is finished. Please visit the company's website, www.ememory.com.tw, under the Investor Relations section. As usual, before we begin, we would like to remind everyone that today's presentation may contain forward-looking statements subject to the risk factors associated with the semiconductor and IP business. Please refer to the cautionary statement on page three of today's presentation. Now, I would like to give the floor over to eMemory's Chairman, Dr. Charles Hsu.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Equipment issues. Oh, okay. I was told that some of the voice did not go through. Let me start it again, okay? Good afternoon, everyone, thank you for attending our conference call today. Although the first half of this year was affected by foundry's overall low utilization rate, we are still very confident about our long-term growth. With the rapid increase in security demand, our license will be driven by PUF IP-related solutions. Since we have more than 1,000 new product tape outs over the past two years, royalty will regain its growth momentum as these two product enter mass production. Lastly, we are developing three nanometer with key customers and five nanometer customers will tape out soon. six, seven nanometer customers' adoption is accelerating.

All of this will speed our future growth. Okay, next, I would like to invite our President Michael Ho to share our first quarter performance and the future outlook.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Now, let's begin with our 2023 first quarter financial results. The first quarter revenue was TWD 668 million, down 26% sequentially and down 8.2% year-over-year. Operating expenses were TWD 301 million, down 18.3% sequentially and down 4.2% year-over-year, mainly attributable to the decrease in bonuses and the rewards. Operating income was TWD 367 million, with a decrease of 31.3% sequentially and 11.2% year-over-year. The operating margin decreased by 4.2 % points sequentially and decreased by 1.8 % points year-over-year to 55%. EPS for the quarter was TWD 4.2, ROE was 38.9%.

Next, let's move on to revenue contribution by licensing and the royalty. Licensing in the first quarter accounted for 21.4% of the total revenue, down 30.3% sequentially and 25.3% year-over-year. Royalties in the first quarter contributed 78.6% of the total revenue, decreasing 24.8% sequentially and 2% year-over-year. Total revenue for the first quarter decreased 26% compared to previous quarter, and it decreased 8.2% compared to the previous year. With that, I will comment on our revenue contribution by specific IPs. NeoBit accounted for 19.7% of the total licensing revenue in the first quarter, decreasing 22.6% sequentially and down 19.8% year-over-year.

Its royalties accounted for 30.5% of the total royalty, down 31.1% sequentially and down 23.2% year-over-year. NeoFuse accounted for the 49.6% of the total licensing revenue in the first quarter, down 28.5% sequentially and down 42.9% year-over-year. In terms of the total royalty revenue, NeoFuse royalties decreased 21% sequentially, but increased 16.3% year-over-year, accounting for 67.8% of total royalties. PUF-based security IPs contributed to 11.5% of licensing revenue, decreasing 60.7% sequentially, but increasing 138.2% year-over-year.

Its royalties accounted for less than 1% of total royalties, which is down 93.8% compared to the previous quarter and down 46.3% compared to the previous year. MTP technology accounted for 19.2% of the total licensing revenue, remained the same sequentially, but increased 8.4% year-over-year. Royalty from MTP decreased 19.8% sequentially and 58.2% year-over-year, accounting for 1.7% of total royalties. Let's look at the royalties for 8-inch and 12-inch wafers. For 8-inch wafers accounted for 47% of royalties, decreasing 25.5% sequentially and 9.2% year-over-year. 12-inch wafers contributed to 53% of royalties, decreasing 24.1% sequentially, but increasing 5.3% year-over-year.

In total, 137 product tape-outs were completed in the first quarter. We will provide more information in the management report later. In the next section, I will address our future outlook. We expect the second quarter to be a tough of the year, mainly due to the continued decline in the low foundry utilization rate. With new customers tape-out moving into production, we expect revenue to pick up momentum in the year's second half. For licensing revenues, licensing will significantly grow during the rest of the year, driven by PUF-based security solutions. For the royalty revenues, with more than 1,000 new product tape-out in the pipeline, royalty will regain growth momentum as new tape-outs move into production. Moving on new IP technology and business development.

This year, the PUF-based solutions will be adopted in five, six, and seven nanometer for the CPU, DPU, AI, and automotive-related applications. We continue working with foundries to develop the NeoFuse to increase the penetration rate of the mature process. Lastly, we continue developing PUF-based security solutions in the most advanced process with our CPU partners. This concludes my comments. Next, I will pass the time to Charles. Thank you.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Okay. Next, I would like to talk about how our PUF-based solution secure ChatGPT and AI. Recently, AI's application in ChatGPT has been a hot topic. Last month, Samsung employees accidentally leak proprietary information, make companies worldwide aware of some of the risk associated with ChatGPT. Today I would talk about how ChatGPT or even AI operations can be hacked attacked. We will discuss how our PUF-based technology can help secure AI operations. Turning to the page 12. ChatGPT is a great tool that can answer even the most complex questions. That's why we decided to challenge it and to see if ChatGPT itself is aware that it needs security and how this program goes about it.

I will use this as an example to talk about how PUF-based solution can protect AI securities. As you can see from the screenshot on the right, when asked, "How do you secure ChatGPT?" The answer is listed in the slide. Although it may not be completed, we just used it as an example. From this answers, we have highlighted some of the keywords we thought were important and listed how our company can help solve the problem according to the bullet point, according to the bullet, each bullet point numbers. Okay. For the first, the answer is to protect the data encryption between the user and the ChatGPT.

To encrypt the data between the exchange between the user and the ChatGPT, our PUF can be used to generate keys for the encryption. The second point is the mentioned authentication and the access control need to be managed in order to protect the ChatGPT. We can use a PUF as an unique ID, and it can generate secret keys for authentication. The third point is how ChatGPT identifies security breaches. By doing the auditing and also the log, and this will also require the system to be able to identify user so PUF can be utilized to generate such ID for the each users. In the future we can track, trace the user's ID and also their log data.

For the first part is how ChatGPT regularly updates and fix its system. This is typically done by over-the-air to upgrade the OS or the system parameters. PUF-based IP is capable of assigning firmware and the software updates, so through the over-the-air to update the systems. The last one is about the security awareness training. By adopting the hardware security, we can limit the chances of human error during the operations. With these points in mind, it is easy to see how our security solution can be applied to AI applications. I will further explain how it is done in the following few slides.

Before understanding how our security solution work, we must first understand how some of the popular attack that can happen, not only in ChatGPT, but also in AI system in general. There are four types of major attacks. The first one is called Poisoning Attack. A Poisoning Attack happens when the attacker tempers to the training data, which will then affect the training model, allow the hacker to manipulate the results through the model. The second attack is called Backdoor Attack. Hackers may also replace the model during a backdoor attack by adding additional neurons to the model. The third attack is called Evasion Attack. Even after a model has been trained and the hacker can still manipulate data, resulting in an evasion attack, leading incorrect output because of modified input data.

The fourth one is Stealing Attack. This Attack applied to all stage of the AI model, or the training data, model parameters, user data, et cetera, are all variable know-how and also vulnerable to be stolen from AI hardware. Basically, these four are the major attack to the AI systems. The next, we would like to talk about each attack, how do you mitigate those attacks? Because each attack will require different protection methods and solutions. For the poisoning attack, the problem with a poisoning attack is the training data may be corrupted, so we need to sign the training data to ensure the integrity of the data.

By signing, the training data to make sure the integrity of the data, we will use the PUF-based solution for the signing. I think I will talk about that in the next section by how to use our PUF-based solution to do the signing or signature. About the backdoor attack. The backdoor attack, the biggest problem is modifying, replacing, or even stealing the model. Not only does this require signing the model to protect its integrity, but it also needs additional encryption and key management to prevent hackers from gaining access to the model. For the evasion attack, how to protect the evasion attack. Unlike the previous method that target the training and the model, evasion attacks pose a problem with input data.

Attackers can tamper with input data to influence the output or results. That's why we must authenticate and pre-provision users a unique ID and encrypt the asset. About the stealing attack. The last attack is the theft of all the AI assets to avoid attacks, stealing valuable data and the know-how from the AI hardware. We need a unique ID signing encryption and an anti-tampering hardware design to dissuade the attackers. Of all the problems we have mentioned, our PUF can play a very important role in solving these issues. We have developed two type of security IP. One is a hardware Root of Trust, and the other is a crypto coprocessor.

The Root of Trust IP is also called PUFrt, combines PUF and which is so-called the physically unclonable functions, and secure IP and a true random number generator. Besides, we have implemented multiple anti-tampering techniques to defend against attacks. On top of that, our crypto coprocessor, which is called PUFcc, comes with all of the above and have a cryptographic hardware accelerator built in on it. With all the industry standard crypto algorithm supported, we also have a firmware and softwares such that our crypto coprocessor can enable advanced security protocol and applications for the users. After understanding the risk of all each stage of AI used to operate ChatGPT, it is easy to see that the PUF-based solution are efficient for all security requirements throughout the AI product lifecycle.

From training data to inference results, the AI developer's know-how must be protected from copying and stealing. PUF-based solution are secure and cost-effective, and the IP blocks make them best suited for securing AI applications. This conclude my remarks. Next, we will enter the Q&A section. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Thank you, Charles. This concludes our prepared statement. We will now begin the Q&A session. Please submit your questions in the input box on the webcast window, and you will enter a queue. Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, we will translate it to English before our management team answers it. All of your questions will follow the format of answering the Chinese version first, followed by the English version. We will now collect the questions and begin our Q&A session.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] Uh, 那 他 们 如 果 第 二 季 不 好 , 那 我 们 下 半 年 会 不 会 , 呃 , 也 是 有 风 险 ? 那 就 是 说 , 呃 , 请 问 下 下 半 年 权 利 金 的 看 法 。 那 我 们 请 Michael, 呃 , 回 答 。

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 呃 , 我 们 目 前 有 看 到 在 去 年 比 较 早 做 库 存 调 整 的 客 户 , 那 在 今 年 的 二 月 份 已 经 有 比 较 明 显 在 晶 圆 厂 的 投 片 动 作 。 那 加 上 我 们 在 前 两 年 刚 好 提 到 超 过 一 千 个 , 呃 , 设 计 定 案 , 也 放 -- 也 都 是 在 一 些 新 的 应 用 上 面 。 那 我 们 也 看 到 说 这 些 大 概 在 上 半 年 的 后 期 会 开 始 量 产 , 所 以 在 下 半 年 的 权 利 金 , 哦 我 们 肯 定 会 比 上 半 年 来 得 好 。 谢 谢 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question asked was, compared to Q1, there was still no improvement in fabs in Q2, and the inventory level of design houses remained high. Since the company's royalty revenue is a quarter behind that of the fabs, what is the outlook on royalty in the second half of the year? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

We have seen that the earliest customers who adjust their inventories started wafer production in February. In addition, the new tape-outs over the last two years were for new product applications and will begin mass production in the latter part of the year and will drive the royalty growth. We expect the royalty to grow sequentially in the second half of the year. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 呃 , 我 们 知 道 公 司 在 那 个 driver、DDI 跟 PMIC, 还 有 一 些 类 比 应 用 的 开 展 都 算 很 成 功 。 那 请 问 接 下 来 公 司 权 利 金 的 动 能 会 来 自 于 哪 方 面 的 新 应 用 所 驱 动 ? 那 预 计 大 概 在 什 么 时 候 才 会 看 到 明 显 的 贡 献 ? 嗯 ,Michael。

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 好 , 谢 谢 这 个 问 题 哦 。 那 我 们 除 了 在 DDI 跟 PMIC 之 外 , 在 其 他 的 类 别 应 用 , 像 是 各 种 的 sensor, 也 有 一 定 的 占 比 。 但 因 为 这 个 sensor 的 die size 相 对 来 讲 小 很 多 , 如 果 使 用 那 个 wafer 量 跟 DDI 跟 PMIC 来 比 的 话 , 会 少 很 多 , 所 以 相 对 来 讲 就 比 较 没 有 那 么 明 显 。 我 们 在 新 的 应 用 部 分 的 开 展 , 随 着 公 司 的 技 术 会 往 更 先 进 的 制 程 去 发 展 , 就 一 定 会 导 入 更 多 不 同 的 应 用 。

[Foreign language] 比 如 说 像 几 , 几 年 前 的 二 八 奈 米 , 我 们 就 导 入 了 像 是 ISP、 呃 Wi-Fi、 呃 TWS、TCON 跟 其 他 high speed IO 相 关 的 应 用 , 那 会 从 一 个 客 户 导 入 更 多 的 一 个 客 户 使 用 。 以 权 利 金 比 例 的 贡 献 来 看 的 话 ,ISP 相 关 的 应 用 会 是 下 一 个 比 较 明 显 的 占 比 。

[Foreign language] 那 接 下 来 就 像 是 Wi-Fi 的 网 通 啊 , 呃 TWS 啊 ,SSD controller 这 , 这 些 部 分 。 那 随 着 七 奈 米 的 量 产 记 录 上 来 , 加 上 我 们 在 五 奈 米 以 及 三 奈 米 的 顺 利 发 展 , 那 接 下 来 肯 定 , 呃 , 会 有 更 多 相 关 processor 相 关 的 应 用 产 生 。 好 , 谢 谢 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question asked was, eMemory has been very successful in the development of DDI, PMIC and analog applications. May I ask which new applications will drive the company's royalty momentum in the future? When do you expect to start seeing noticeable contributions? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Besides the DDI and the PMIC, we also have applied to other applications such as various sensors. Because the die size of sensors is relatively small, the amount of wafers used is much less than that of DDI and PMIC. It is not as obvious. As we develop into more new advanced process nodes, for sure, we will be adopted by even more applications on new process nodes once qualified. For example, when 28 nanometer was ready, customers like ISP, Wi-Fi, TWS, SSD controller, T-COM, and other high-speed I/O start to adopt our solutions from one customer to many. All allow the pattern of DDI and PMIC, and will eventually become industry standards. Regarding which application will be the next driving force for royalty revenue, we believe the ISP related will be the next, followed by the Wi-Fi, TWS, and the networking related.

As we accumulate production records for seven nanometer and progress to five nanometer and three nanometer, we are confident that other processor related applications will be the next following areas. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 公 司 的 权 利 金 最 大 比 重 来 自 于 DDI, 那 是 否 有 看 到 DDI 客 户 回 温 的 现 象 ?

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 这 个 问 题 最 近 大 家 都 蛮 重 视 的 。 我 们 最 近 也 是 有 看 到 在 DDI, 客 户 在 第 一 季 的 底 已 经 开 始 有 一 些 比 较 明 显 的 投 片 。 另 外 在 最 近 我 想 大 家 从 法 说 或 报 告 上 也 有 看 到 , 像 我 们 国 内 两 个 比 较 大 的 这 个 晶 圆 代 工 厂 , 他 们 的 DDI 的 比 例 也 是 比 较 高 。

[Foreign language] 他 们 在 四 月 份 都 有 不 错 的 营 收 成 长 。 另 外 , 国 内 的 一 个 大 的 DDI 的 公 司 , 他 们 对 于 Q2 的 展 望 也 是 蛮 乐 观 的 。 我 想 这 个 也 应 该 也 是 一 个 景 气 DDI 开 始 回 温 的 一 个 index。 谢 谢 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Okay, the question asked was since the largest portion of the company's royalties come from DDI, have we seen a recovery in DDI customers, Michael?

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Well, customers start the wafer production at the end of Q1. Besides from the recent report, we see the two big foundries in Taiwan with a higher DDI ratio. Their April revenue is pretty good. Another big DDI company in Taiwan, they also have a quite good Q2 forecast. I think that could be the good index about the DDI market. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 公司 在 车 用 电 子 相 关 跟 AI 实 际 客 户 导 入 的 进 展 , 那 现 在 是 不 是 有 权 利 金 的 贡 献?

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 这 个 答 案 是 肯 定 的 哦 。 我 们 在 AI, 呃 在 车 用 的 部 分 有 不 少 的 应 用 , 像 是 从 七 奈 米 的 ADAS 到 像 二 八 奈 米 的 网 通 相 关 的 , 一 直 到 成 熟 制 程 的 像 DDI sensor 以 及 PMIC 的 部 分 都 有 陆 续 的 量 产 。 那 至 于 AI 的 客 户 , 目 前 大 部 分 都 还 是 在 tap out 的 阶 段 , 那 有 客 户 已 经 开 始 在 少 量 生 产 , 那 都 是 在 初 期 的 一 个 阶 段 。 谢 谢 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question asked was are there any royalty contributions that reflect the company's progress in automotive and AI customers? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

For automotive customers from like seven nanometer ADAS and the 28 nanometer networking related, they are ready for the mature process such as DDI sensor and the PMIC related are all in mass production. For most AI customers, they are still in the tape-out stage, only minimal volume production. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 呃 , 你 们 曾 经 提 过 几 乎 所 有 公 司 都 是 立 旺 的 客 户 , 那 为 什 么 八 寸 的 这 个 占 有 率 只 有 twenty percent?

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 一个很好的问题。我这边也大概解释一下。目前在 8寸 的部分,除了我们的 large NVM 技术之外,还有另外一个技术,另外一个 embedded non-volatile memory 的技术,那叫做 embedded Flash. embedded Flash 比较有名的公司像是 SST 或 ISSI,他们大概在 1990 年那个时代就开始发展这些相关的技术,那主要是应用在 MCU 的应用方面,那这部分的市占率大概也差不多就是 20% 左右。至于其他的部门,大多是用 foundry eFuse 的 solution。我们认为在成熟制程上的渗透率仍然有很大的一个扩展空间,因为我们仍旧看到有客户因为 density 或者是 performance 的考量,会从 eFuse 转来用我们的 OTP。另外我们的 MTP 的相关技术也提供更好的一个性价比,譬如我们的 NeoFlash 相对于 embedded Flash 来讲,不需要增加额外的机器设备投入,以及在光罩的数目来讲有明显的降低,这也非常适合一些 specialty process 的应用,那这部分的话 embedded Flash 就很难导入。我们在这个部分,正和很多家,多家的一些代工厂客户合作开发,我们的 NeoEE,现在已经导入像 DDR5 的这个模组的 PMIC 的应用,客户也开始做量产,这些都会持续拉高我们在成熟制程的渗透率。谢谢.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was, you mentioned before that most companies are your customers. Why is the market share for 8-inch capped at 20% if that is the case? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Besides our large NVM technology, there is another 8- inch embedded memory, non-volatile memory technology called embedded Flash. It was developed by like SST or ISSI in the 1990s, and many used in the MCU applications. Its market share is also around 20%, with the remaining others use the foundry eFuse solution. We believe that the penetration rate of mature process have room to grow, because we still see customers switching from the eFuse to our OTP due to the density and performance requirement. In addition, our MTP related technologies provide a better cost performance than the embedded Flash. For example, compared to the embedded Flash, our NeoFlash doesn't need additional investment in the equipments and use fewer masking layer with much lower wafer cost. It is also suitable for specialty process. For that part, the embedded Flash is not available.

It's currently being developed with many foundries customers. For our new NeoEE, it has been adopted for PMIC in the DDR5 modules, and we'll start big volume production at the end of this year. The above reasons will continue to increase our penetration rate in mature process. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] May I ask, are Amazon and Google promoting CPU, GPU customers to adopt PUF confidential computing technology? Michael.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 好 , 我 想 这 两 家 客 户 确 实 都 有 在 导 入 一 些 机 密 运 算 的 技 术 , 我 们 也 有 相 关 的 合 作 案 件 正 在 进 行 。 谢 谢 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was, are Amazon and Google pushing CPU and GPU partners to adopt PUF-based confidential computing? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Customers are currently collaborating with us for security-related application. Thank you.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 现 在 的 这 个 处 理 器 , processor 很 常 被 攻 击 , 用 PUF 可 以 保 护 吗 ? Charles。

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] , 那 关 于 这 个 问 题 , 呃 , 首 先 我 们 , 呃 , 需 要 了 解 这 个 , 呃 , 这 个 在 资 讯 系 统 里 面 我 们 保 护 的 范 围 是 什 么 。 其 基 本 , 基 本 上 可 以 分 成 下 面 三 个 , 一 个 就 是 这 个 叫 做 protect data in storage, 那 第 二 个 就 是 protect data in transit, 呃 , 然 后 第 三 个 呢 , 就 是 protect data in use。

[Foreign language] 那 对 于 这 个 处 理 , 处 理 器 的 攻 -- 呃 , 攻 击 呢 , 那 , 呃 , 我 们 必 须 要 有 的 就 是 叫 做 protect data in use。 哦 , 那 在 目 前 的 这 个 现 在 的 这 个 处 理 器 啊 , 为 了 加 速 资 讯 处 理 的 速 度 , 所 以 现 在 的 这 个 high performance computing 都 是 采 用 , 呃 ,multi-cores, 呃 , 还 有 这 个 所 谓 的 共 用 , 这 virtual memory 的 架 构 来 作 为 这 个 multi-user 跟 这 个 multi-tasking 的 这 个 应 用 。

[Foreign language] , 那 因 为 共 用 这 个 , 呃 ,virtual memory 的 关 系 啊 , 就 会 让 这 个 hackers, 就 是 骇 客 啊 , 有 机 会 经 由 这 个 virtual memory 来 造 成 对 其 他 程 式 运 算 的 这 个 影 响 , 哦 。 所 以 解 决 的 方 法 呢 , 就 是 让 每 一 个 程 式 在 运 算 的 时 候 就 都 只 能 用 它 被 指 定 的 这 个 virtual memory, 而 不 能 access 到 其 他 的 virtual memory。 呃 , 所 以 这 个 PUF 在 保 护 这 个 data in use, 在 CPU 里 面 呢 , 就 是 提 供 这 些 运 算 程 式 , 呃 , 及 其 相 对 的 这 个 virtual memory 的 这 个 key ta-key tag, 哦 , 就 是 给 , 给 它 一 个 钥 匙 , 哦 。

[Foreign language] 然 后 这 个 钥 匙 呢 , 就 是 CPU 跟 的 -- 这 -- 在 run 的 这 个 程 式 呢 , 这 个 它 跟 这 个 virtu-virtual memory 这 个 运 用 的 这 个 空 间 呢 , 会 有 一 个 对 应 的 关 系 , 吼 , 就 是 用 这 个 key tag。 所 以 各 , 呃 , 个 别 的 这 运 算 程 式 呢 , 就 只 能 用 自 己 的 key tag 去 使 用 自 己 的 virtual memory, 哦 , 如 此 一 来 就 可 以 防 止 这 个 骇 客 呢 , 想 经 由 这 个 virtual memory 去 影 响 , 呃 , 其 他 人 的 这 个 程 式 运 算 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The next question is security related. The question is, modern processors are often attacked. Can PUF protect them? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Okay. The process of protecting information usually is divided into three categories. One is protect data in storage, the next is protect data in transit. The third one is protect data in use. To attack the processor is to attack the data in use, belong to that category. And in order to accelerate the speed of information's processing, current high-performance computing uses multi-core architecture and shared virtual memory to facilitate the application of multi-tasking by multi-users. Because of the shared virtual memory, the attacker will have the opportunity to manipulate the other programs through the virtual memory. The solution is to ensure that each program can only use its designated virtual memory during operation, and not access other virtual memories.

PUF can protect the data in use in CPU by providing a key tag to computing programs and their corresponding virtual memory. Each computing program can only use its own key tag to access their own virtual memory, and this will prevent the attackers from gaining access to other programs' operation through the virtual memory.

Speaker 4

OK。[Foreign language] , 今 年 授 权 晶 是 公 司 成 长 的 重 点 , 请 问 这 部 分 的 制 程 与 应 用 主 要 是 在 哪 方 面 ?

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] , 那 在 这 个 有 关 这 个 因 为 我 们 现 在 极 力 地 在 发 展 这 个 PUF-based 的 这 个 security 的 solution。 好 , 那 我 们 也 看 到 这 个 趋 势 , 这 个 security 的 requirement 的 趋 势 非 常 明 显 。 不 只 是 industry, 现 整 个 这 个 government 都 开 始 在 重 视 他 们 所 有 的 这 些 device 进 口 到 他 们 国 家 是 不 是 有 这 些 安 全 的 装 置 。

[Foreign language] 那 个 目 前 那 个 很 多 的 这 个 IC 公司 呢 , 他 们 在 develop 这 个 新 的 这 个 产 品 , 都 会 开 始 这 个 ask for 这 个 security 的 要 求 。 特 别 是 我 们 最 近 看 到 在 这 个 CPU、DPU, 还 有 AI 跟 车 用 的 这 个 应 用 上 面 , 以 及 这 个 5 nanometer, 6 nanometer, 7 nanometer 在 这 方 面 的 应 用 都 有 明 显 的 需 求 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question is: This year licensing fee is the focus of eMemory's growth. What are the main process and applications that are adopting your technology? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

It will be mainly driven by a PUF-based security solution and 5, 6 and 7 nanometer application in CPU, DPU, AI and automotive related applications, which are our major growth on the license fee.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 呃 , 请 问 目 前 手 机 厂 的 那 个 AP processor 的 硬 体 安 全 是 用 什 么 方 式 来 保 护 ? 那 如 果 换 成 我 们 的 solution 有 什 么 好 处 ?Charles。

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 我 想 过 去 大 家 没 有 这 个 PUF 可 以 用 , 目 前 的 手 机 厂 的 硬 体 安 全 , 它 在 储 存 key 的 时 候 , 钥 匙 的 时 候 , 都 是 用 所 谓 的 传 统 的 这 个 eFuse. 当 然 这 个 eFuse 在 我 们 的 OTP 进 入 市 场 之 后 , 这 个 eFuse 也 慢 慢 地 被 我 们 的 OTP 取 代. 因 为 如 果 说 用 eFuse 的 话 , 目 前 用 储 存 的 部 分 , 那 个 钥 匙 呢 就 必 须 从 外 面 注 入 这 个 私 钥 来 储 存 这 个 私 钥. 但 是 渐 渐 地 在 这 个 未 来 ,

[Foreign language] 除 了 储 存 , 因 为 这 个 私 钥 的 储 存 呢 , 过 去 用 eFuse 来 储 存 的 是 用 这 个 外 面 这 个 operation 的 方 式 注 入 这 个 私 钥. 但 是 假 如 说 未 来 让 这 个 security 要 更 高 档 的 话 呢 , 就 必 须 要 由 这 个 晶 片 呢 来 自 己 产 生 这 个 私 钥 , 而 不 能 从 外 面 的 注 入. 那 个 用 我 们 现 在 的 这 个 PUF 的 方 案 呢 , 就 可 以 利 用 这 个 PUF 来 产 生 这 个 私 钥 , 然 后 产 生 完 这 个 钥 匙 之 后 呢 , 再 把 这 个 私 钥 呢 存 到 我 们 的 OTP , 这 个 是 一 个 最 完 整 的 这 个 hardware Root of Trust. 就 未 来 的 这 个 solution,

[Foreign language] 用 我 们 的 这 个 PUF 的 晶 片 指 纹 就 可 以 来 保 护 整 个 安 全 系 统 , 而 且 可 以 由 晶 片 呢 自 己 来 产 生 私 钥 , 然 后 储 存 这 私 钥 , 这 样 的 话 就 可 以 大 幅 地 减 少 这 个 系 统 被 曝 露 的 风 险. 这 个 因 为 这 个 整 个 所 谓 的 这 个 operation 的 supply chain 的 这 个 operation 的 成 本 也 会 降 低 , 不 用 说 这 个 从 外 面 注 入 这 个 钥 匙 , 因 为 这 会 引 起 很 多 的 这 个 operation 上 面 的 困 难 度 , 这 个 部 分 是 对 我 们 使 用 我 们 的 这 个 PUF 的 solution 来 做 这 些 , 这 个 手 机 上 面 的 AP 的 这 个 硬 体 安 全 有 非 常 好 的 这 个 好 处.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was: What is used to protect the hardware security of AP processors in mobile phone factories? Follow-up: What is the benefit of switching to eMemory solutions? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Currently the hardware security mobile phone manufacturer use is the eFuse to store the public and the private keys. It does not use a chip fingerprint to protect the entire hardware Root of Trust. Our solution can obtain the best hardware Root of Trust while the PUF chip fingerprint protect the whole security system. At the same time, the public key and the public keys from the chip can significantly reduce the security concern and the cost when injecting keys.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 呃 , 接 下 来 一 题 是 Nomura 的 Kevin, 他 都 问 那 个 很 困 难 的 问 题 。OK, 呃 , 过 去 加 密 协 定 RSA 扮 演 重 要 的 角 色 , 那 NeoPUF 如 何 取 代 呢 ? 那 另 外 呢 , 过 去 BIOS 也 可 以 放 入 安 全 认 证 , 叫 做 Secure Boot, 那 这 部 分 跟 NeoPUF 是 互 斥 的 吗 ?Charles。

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

OK. [Foreign language] 我 想 这 个 问 - 问 题 哦 , 我 要 先 澄 清 一 下 , 因 为 , 呃 , 第 一 个 就 是 RSA 啊 , 它 是 一 个 , 呃 , 从 私 钥 去 产 生 公 钥 的 这 个 算 法 哦 。那 , 呃 , 这 个 , 这 个 公 钥 跟 产 生 , 呃 , 为 什 么 需 要 从 这 个 公 钥 跟 产 生 私 钥 , 这 主 要 是 用 在 于 安 全 功 能 里 面 的 这 个 authentication 跟 这 个 , 呃 ,signature 啊 。 但 是 那 个 PUF 跟 , 就 不 是 一 个 算 法 哦 ,PUF 是 这 个 , 是 一 个 , 呃 , 所 谓 的 这 个 晶 片 指 纹 , 所 以 它 是 产 生 私 钥 , 哦 , 主 要 可 以 用 PUF 来 产 生 私 钥 。

[Foreign language] 所 以 这 个 , 呃 ,RSA 是 一 个 从 产 -- 私 钥 产 生 公 钥 的 算 法 , 但 是 PUF 呢 , 是 一 个 产 生 私 钥 的 晶 片 指 纹 , 哦 。 所 以 通 常 我 们 的 在 security 的 这 个 功 能 里 面 , 就 是 先 产 生 私 钥 , 对 不 对 ? 那 就 是 PUF, 它 会 产 生 , 因 为 它 是 一 个 晶 片 指 纹 , 所 以 它 就 是 , 呃 , 基 本 上 就 可 以 产 生 一 个 私 钥 , 然 后 RSA 呢 , 再 利 用 这 个 , 呃 ,PUF 呢 产 生 的 私 钥 来 去 算 - 算 出 这 个 公 钥 , 哦 。

[Forign language] 那 这 样 的 话 就 有 这 - 这 个 , 这 个 , 就 可 以 产 生 这 个 , 呃 , 私 钥 跟 公 钥 。 那 有 私 钥 跟 公 钥 之 后 呢 , 就 可 以 做 这 个 authentication, 还 有 做 这 个 , 呃 ,signature, 哦 。 那 在 , 呃 ,BIO,BIOS, 呃 , 过 去 这 个 BIOS 呢 , 是 一 个 要 启 动 这 个 OS 的 这 个 前 置 的 这 个 , 呃 , 认 - 认 - 认 体 , 哦 。 那 但 是 这 个 BI-BIOS 要 被 这 个 , 呃 , 被 保 护 , 它 就 用 这 个 公 钥 跟 私 钥 去 保 护 这 个 BIOS。

[Foreign language] 所 以 通 常 是 这 个 用 这 个 , 呃 , 私 钥 去 签 章 , 签 章 , 签 章 这 个 BIOS, 然 后 再 把 这 个 公 钥 呢 , 是 由 这 个 user 呢 , 用 这 个 公 钥 去 解 - 解 开 这 个 私 钥 , 然 后 取 得 要 boot, 这 个 系 统 要 boot 起 来 的 时 候 的 这 个 , 呃 ,BIO,BIOS。 呃 , 所 以 这 个 , 呃 , 所 以 这 - 这 三 个 基 本 上 就 是 , 呃 , 其 实 是 不 同 的 , 呃 ,process, 哦 。 所 以 这 个 , 这 个 问 题 他 把 它 混 在 一 起 , 哦 。 所 以 我 再 重 复 , 这 个 , 呃 ,RSA 就 是 一 个 从 私 钥 产 生 公 钥 的 一 个 这 算 法 , 哦 。

[Foreign language] 然 后 NeoPUF 呢 , 它 是 , 呃 , 利 用 自 然 界 的 差 异 产 生 一 个 , 呃 , 乱 数 , 然 后 这 个 乱 数 呢 可 以 用 来 当 做 一 个 私 钥 , 哦 。 然 后 呢 , BIOS 呢 , 在 有 了 这 个 公 钥 跟 私 钥 ,RSA 产 生 的 公 钥 跟 私 钥 之 后 , 然 后 这 个 BIOS 是 一 个 firmware, 然 后 BIOS 这 个 整 个 系 统 要 启 动 的 时 候 , 这 个 BIOF, 这 BIOS 这 个 firmware 是 非 常 重 要 , 所 以 不 能 被 这 个 害 , 哦 , 所 以 必 须 这 个 , 当 这 个 , 呃 , 系 统 的 供 应 商 , 他 必 须 要 利 用 产 生 的 这 个 私 钥 去 保 护 这 个 BIOS, 然 后 这 个 s-- user 呢 , 会 用 这 个 公 钥 呢 去 解 开 这 个 私 钥 保 护 的 这 个 BIOS, 然 后 就 可 以 去 启 动 整 个 系 统 。 呃 , 所 以 这 个 是 整 个 的 程 序 , 还 有 每 一 个 的 功 用 是 这 样 子 , 而 不 是 , 呃 , 所 以 不 - 不 是 , 呃 , 不 是 互 相 这 个 排 斥 或 是 取 代 , 呃 , 这 些 都 需 要 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was a little complicated. Let's try to repeat it in English. In the past, the encryption protocol RSA played an important role. How will NeoPUF replace it? In addition, the BIOS can also be put into the security authentication Secure Boot. Is this mutually exclusive from NeoPUF? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

RSA is the algorithm which can generate public key which can generate public key from private key. The key include pubkey and the private keys pair are mainly used for authentication and the signing of the security functions. The NeoPUF is the chip fingerprint which can provide a unique private key. This private key is the input to the RSA, and the output is a corresponding pubkey, public key. Once we have the key pair include the public key and the private key, we can use this key pair by using the private key to protect the BIOS, the system will use the private key to protect this BIOS and send this to the user.

The user will use the public key provided by system to decrypt the BIOS protected by the private key. We will start the Secure Boot process. This is three items, BIOS, NeoPUF 和 the BIOS. They are three different things. Okay. The relationship is what I just explained.

Speaker 4

Okay. [Foreign language] 那 这 也 是 Kevin 问 的 ,NeoPUF 是 否 可 以 应 用 在 PFR, 也 就 是 Platform Firmware Resilience。 我 想 要 是 最 近 国 内 有 一 家 公 司 , 有 说 他 在 做 这 个 , 那 怎 么 用 ? Okay, 那 Charles, 可 不 可 以 回 答 ?

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Okay. [Foreign language] 我 想 那 个 NeoPUF, 我 们 现 在 把 NeoPUF 跟 这 个 OTP 整 合 , 整 成 这 个 PUFrt, 然 后 再 把 这 个 PUFrt 是 Root of Trust 呢 跟 那 个 Crypto Engine 哦 整 成 这 个 所 谓 的 Secure Crypto Coprocessor 哦 。 那 对 于 这 个 所 谓 的 Platform Firmware Resilience 主 要 就 是 在 跟 这 个 Secure Boot 有 关 系 哦 。

[Foreign language] 对 于 上 面 那 一 题 我 解 释 过 , 就 是 这 个 当 我 们 有 这 个 PUF, 对 不 对 ? 我 们 就 可 以 产 生 Private Key。 然 后 有 了 Public Key 之 后 呢 , 我 们 在 这 个 PUFcc 里 面 有 这 个 algorithm, RSA 或 是 ECC, 它 就 可 以 用 这 个 Private Key 呢 来 产 生 这 个 Public Key 哦 。 那 你 有 这 个 Public Key 跟 这 个 Private Key 之 后 , 未 来 要 这 个 保 护 的 这 个 Firmware 哦 , 像 刚 讲 的 这 个 PFR 里 面 的 这 Firmware 就 可 以 用 这 个 所 谓 的 Private Key 来 保 护 这 个 Firmware。

[Foreign language] 那 到 这 个 user 端 呢 会 有 用 这 个 Public Key 来 解 这 个 Private Key, 然 后 取 得 这 个 真 正 的 这 个 Firmware。 因 为 被 签 章 过 的 这 个 Firmware 呢 , 它 就 有 证 明 它 是 一 个 原 稿 哦 , 也 就 是 说 这 个 Firmware 的 integrity 就 被 保 护 哦 。 这 个 部 分 呢 , 就 可 以 用 这 个 我 刚 刚 讲 的 这 个 PUFcc, 经 由 这 个 Key 的 产 生 , 再 加 上 这 个 整 个 Security 的 function 来 protect 这 个 所 谓 的 PFR 里 面 的 这 个 功 能 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was: Can your PUF be applied to PFR, which stands for Platform Firmware Resilience? If so, how? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Yes. Our PUFcc, PUF co-processor can act as the digital signature and the certificate for Secure Boot, and it can also encrypt the authenticate the data stored in the flash. Basically, the Platform Firmware Resilience is basically also execute the power of the Secure Boot functions.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 呃 ,Charles 以 前 在 公 开 场 合 常 常 提 到 , 就 是 说 机 密 运 算 是 一 个 非 常 大 的 市 场 , 那 一 定 有 人 做 , 呃 , 任 何 -- 任 - 任 -- 每 家 公 司 一 定 都 会 有 竞 争 对 手 。OK, 那 利 用 PUF 的 这 个 solution 的 解 决 方 案 跟 其 他 对 手 他 有 什 么 样 的 优 势 ? 呃 ,Charles。

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

[Foreign language] 在 机密运算 中 用 来 保 护 运 算 资 料 的 密 钥 是 以 这 个 PUF-based 的 方 案 来 产 生 的 速 度 呢 , 会 比 其 他 对 手 的 方 案 快 非 常 多 , 才 可 以 达 到 这 机密运算 呢 , 又 安 全 又 快 速 的 这 个 效 能 。 如 同 我 在 前 面 的 问 题 所 回 答 , 机密运算 的 目 的 是 保 护 data in use, 在 运 算 执 行 的 过 程 中 , 不 会 被 骇 客 有 机 会 经 由 共 同 的 virtual memory 置 入 或 更 改 程 式 或 资 料 的 内 容 。

[Foreign language] 因 为 CPU 的 运 算 速 度 需 要 很 快 , 不 能 因 为 加 密 功 能 而 减 缓 , 所 以 如 果 能 够 非 常 快 速 地 产 生 密 钥 , 作 为 每 一 个 程 式 在 其 对 应 的 运 算 virtual memory 的 key tag 来 保 护 该 程 式 之 运 算 的 virtual memory, 就 可 以 让 这 个 骇 客 无 法 进 入 该 区 取 得 或 修 改 这 个 程 式 或 资 料 。 我 们 的 这 个 PUF-based 的 解 决 方 案 呢 , 在 产 生 密 钥 的 这 个 速 度 , 跟 这 个 密 钥 的 乱 度 呢 , 比 那 个 其 他 对 手 的 方 案 呢 , 高 出 许 多 , 就 可 以 达 到 这 个 让 这 个 机密运算 呢 , 达 到 这 个 又 安 全 又 快 速 的 这 个 效 能 。

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was: As Charles described, confidential computing is a huge opportunity. What are the competing Root of Trust solutions for this application? The follow-up is: If hyperscalers adopt your solution, will we see press releases to that effect? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Using the PUF-based solution to encrypt and decrypt and protect computing data is much faster. OK. Doing so will achieve the safest and the fastest performance confidential computing. As I answered previously, the purpose of a confidential computing is to protect data in use so that the hackers will not have the opportunity to modify the contents of the program or data through a shared virtual memory during the computing.

Because the computing speed of CPU need to be very fast, it cannot be slowed down by the encryption function. Therefore, if encryption can be generated very quickly, it can be used as a key tag of each program to access its computing correspondent computing virtual memory. This can prevent hackers from entering the area to store or modify the program or data. PUF-based solution is much faster than other competitors solution in terms of true random number, the two randomness and also the speed and density requirements such that we can use the PUF-based solution to provide the key tag very fast to protect the virtual memory, which is used by the individual program.

Speaker 4

[Foreign language] 的 发 展 对 公 司 的 IP 到 底 是 好 还 是 不 好 ? 是 不 是 只 要 在 比 较 便 宜 的 制 程 的 晶 片 用 到 公 司 的 IP, 然 后 用 的 方 式 封 在 一 起 , 那 比 较 贵 的 那 个 制 程 的 那 个 晶 片 就 不 需 要 用 了 。

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

OK, the purpose is actually to do More than Moore, because many things, many functions, besides digital functions, many other mixed mode functions actually do not need to continue scaling. Because the economic benefits brought by scaling, and the performance is not necessarily higher. Its approach is to divide the SoC into different units, for example, pure digital functions that require high performance, high-speed functions, and functions that require analog, and functions that require memory.

These functions are basically cut apart, and then reassembled to become this SoC. The reassembled function is the same, although it is not a single chip. In this chip, there will be a concern, which is whether the first chip, all chiplets in this SoC system, are authorized. The second question is, if this chip's source is authorized, then when this chip and chip communicate, can the required security be preserved? This will generate, in this chip, the two problems just mentioned: whether this chip is a genuine chip, and when these separate chips communicate with each other, will it cause many security problems? Additionally, there is another problem: every chip must become a known-good die, meaning every one is a good chip, before it can be packaged. If one of the chips is not good, then it will affect the yield of the entire packaged chip's product.

These parts, these three problems, for us, for eMemory Technology, our solution can solve these problems. For example, to repair this chip, if there is a defective product inside the chip, and if it needs to be repaired, we can, for example, in the memory part, if after multi-chip packaging there is a bad bit or a bad bit that needs to be repaired, we can use OTP for repair. Additionally, for the authentication of genuine chips, and the encryption protection between chip and chip communication, we can use PUF's security solution to enhance this security function. In this entire function, the importance of OTP and our security lies in our use of OTP, plus this PUF-based solution, which can achieve this part.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was, is the development of chiplets good or bad for the company's IP? The follow-up is it true that as long as the company's IP is used in chips with cheaper processes and packaged together in a chiplet, then a more advanced processor is not needed? Charles.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Okay. The purpose of chiplet is to do the More than Moore, because the sum of the functions in the chip is it doesn't need to scale in as much as a digital circuit. Chiplet divide the SoC into small chip and package them, and therefore the function of SoC will remain the same. The security function are still needed. However, after being separated into small chip, the communication between each separate chip, whether it is an original chip, will lead to many security problem or other challenges, including yield loss during the package. The IO connection and the confidentiality and the certification of the original chips.

All of this require OTP for yield repair and require the PUF-based security function for the original chip certification and also the solution for the encryption and also decryptions. To make sure the information between each chip is secure. Therefore, in the chiplet architectures, in the eMemory's OTP and also PUF-based security solution will become the even more important for the chiplet architectures.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Okay. The question was: As the utilization rate of fabs are very low, have you seen a sharp decrease in foundry prices, and will they affect the company's royalty income? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Currently, the pricing strategies of foundries are different. The big foundries maintain the pricing, and only relative small-scale foundries have discounts. Overall, ASP has little impact to our royalties. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Charles. The question that was asked was, how's the cooperation with Arm and when can we start seeing contributions?

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

Okay. Our collaboration with Arm has different projects. One in the IoT, and another one is in the mobile, and another one is on the automotive. We co-op with Arm, and also some of them we also co-op with the customers. We will see this contribution very soon.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Uh,

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question that was asked was: How is your PUF-based IP licensed to customers? Do you work with fab or customize for chip designers? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Because our NeoPUF is made up of NeoFuse cells developed on foundry process and is licensed directly to foundries. The Root of Trust, the function PUFrt and our PUFcc co-processor is digital design, so IP. It will directly license to the chip companies. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question was: Has ChatGPT led to more interest in eMemory? More specifically, have you started to see interest in the data center and AI-related areas?

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

You know, we have a couple of customers, they are working on AI and the data center, to engage with us, whether it is AI-related requirement or driven by ChatGPT or by self-driving IoT or other connectivity device. The level of security requirement is getting higher and higher. The trend for security requirement on chip level is very obvious.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Michael, the question was: Have recent chip customers inquire more about self-driving ADAS applications? Are eMemory IPs being adopted in automotive MCUs? Thank you.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Yes. In addition to the mass production of seven nanometer ADAS by Japanese customers, we also have customers from US and the China region, especially in the 12 nanometer, seven nanometer, and the five nanometer. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Sorry, the previous question, we forgot to answer it in English. Can you talk a little bit about the effect of PMIC and DDIC pricing on your royalty income? Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

Based on the foundry wafer price, which have nothing to do with the chip price. The price fluctuation of foundry wafers is much lower than the chip price. We know that the wafer price fluctuation in major foundry is not much. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

The question was asking what's the timeline between licensing and royalty. Michael.

Michael Ho
President and Director, eMemory Technology

It typically will take about two-three years from the licensing to royalty. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Since this is the last question, we will move on to closing comments. Charles, please proceed with your closing comment.

Charles Hsu
Chairman, eMemory Technology

For attending our investor conference. For more information about our PUF-based security IP, we encourage you to visit our PUFsecurity website at www.pufsecurity.com and check out our articles and other materials. Thank you once again for participate, for your patience, and also support for eMemory. We will continue to work hard on the IP innovation and security solutions for our customers, and bringing higher return for our shareholders. Thank you.

Li-Jeng Chen
Head of Investor Relations, eMemory Technology

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We know that we haven't had the time to answer all of your questions. Feel free to email us or contact us however you want. We hope you will join us again next quarter. You may now disconnect. Goodbye and have a good day.

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