Interfor Corporation (TSX:IFP)
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Earnings Call: Q2 2020

Aug 7, 2020

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thank you, operator, and welcome everyone to our Q2 2020 investor analyst call. Firstly, I'd like to say that I hope you and your family are safe and healthy and doing well during this pandemic. With me today, you have Bart Bender, our Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing, along with Rick Pozzebon, our new Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Our agenda today will start off with myself providing a recap of our strategic priorities and key themes. I'll then pass the call to Rick, who will cover off financial matters, and then I'll pass the call off to Bart, who will cover off market matters. Turning to our strategic focus, Q2 was quite a ride. We started the quarter with a highly uncertain lumber market and finished the quarter in a completely different spot.

However, our overarching priorities have not changed. Core to our company is maintaining our capital allocation discipline and ensuring our balance sheet integrity and that we have strong liquidity. This approach has served us well over the years, allowing us to control our future and take advantage of both internal and external growth opportunities. I'd like to talk a little bit about COVID impacts and some of our forward plans. Production in the quarter was impacted by market-related downtime and adjustments to match our order files. This impacted our quarterly operating rate. However, by mid-quarter, we were back to maximum operating rates and continue to do so today. We are experiencing an increase in COVID-related incidents, particularly in the South platform and to a lesser extent, in our Pacific Northwest region.

The health and safety of our employees and contractors is at the top of our priority list, and we will continue to adapt and adjust our safety protocols, in some cases, our operating cadence, based on our team's safety. There's no doubt we're experiencing a very strong lumber market that appears to reflect real demand. The impacts of COVID-19 early on with curtailments and the permanent supply reductions made in BC Interior last year appear to have positioned us well during this demand-driven market condition. Our improvement efforts were again balanced across the company as we made progress in all regions. In BC, we approved the construction of an additional dry kiln at our Adams Lake operation. This project complements the completed timber acquisition earlier this year and further positions our BC Interior region as one of the best in the industry.

All of our BC mills are well-positioned with secure long-term fiber tenures and modern, highly efficient mills. In the Pacific Northwest, we completed and have started up a major project at one of our stud mills. The startup KPIs, recovery costs, productivity, et cetera, are tracking ahead of our pro forma expectations already. In the South, we advanced on our phase two strategic CapEx plans at our Eatonton, Georgia operation and our Georgetown, South Carolina operation. I want to talk a little bit about our balance sheet and liquidity. Our EBITDA was CAD 43 million, despite facing significant early COVID-19 market-related downtime in April and early May. This quarter represents the strongest earnings since Q2 2018. We improved our balance sheet and liquidity by a very proactive operating discipline on working capital, conversion costs, and G&A reduction activities.

Our net debt to invested capital and available liquidity both improved, ending Q2 at 22% and CAD 497 million. We continue to closely manage our working capital and costs, and we see no need to take on any working capital risk in this market. We are still cautious in regards to the overall economy. In closing, we are focusing in on maintaining the health and safety and wellbeing of our employees. We continue to drive cost reductions, and we're matching our production rates to our order files. That concludes my opening remarks. I'm now gonna hand the call over to Rick, who will cover off the financial matters.

Richard Pozzebon
EVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Thank you, Ian, and good morning, everyone. Before getting started, I'll refer you to cautionary language regarding forward-looking information on the first page of our Q2 MD&A. The second quarter was positive from an earnings standpoint.

Adjusted EBITDA, $43 million was improved from $37 million in Q1. This improvement reflects higher realized lumber prices, partly offset by lower sales volumes. Our average realized price was $646 per 1,000 board feet, up 9% over the preceding quarter, reflecting overall lumber market strength. Lumber sales volumes are 22% lower than the first quarter, resulting from proactive production curtailments taken in the first half of Q2 in response to COVID-19 uncertainty. Midway through the second quarter, production volumes returned to levels typical before the pandemic. Cash taxes have been minimal year-to-date and are expected to remain so over the near term, based on existing tax loss carryforward balances and current legislation. Cash flow generated from operations in the second quarter was $103 million.

This includes $66 million from inventory reductions, as we focused on balancing inventories to our order file and market conditions. In terms of capital expenditures, $24 million was spent in Q2, with approximately $18 million of that related to our strategic projects, on which we are seeing positive results. We've readjusted our CapEx program for 2020 to total approximately $120 million, up $20 million from previous guidance. Our planned CapEx for 2021 remains unchanged at substantially less than $100 million. As Ian mentioned, our balance sheet improved quarter-over-quarter, and we continue to have significant financial flexibility. We ended the quarter with net debt of $239 million, cash on hand of $170 million, and our $350 million dollar revolving term line undrawn.

In addition, softwood lumber duties on deposit with the U.S. government totaled $170 million at quarter end, substantially all of which are not recorded on our balance sheet. While we regularly evaluate all options for capital allocation, our priorities in the foreseeable future are to complete our existing strategic capital program, continue to deleverage, and be well-positioned to capitalize on value-added growth opportunities. In summary, Q2 financial results are solid, and we're well positioned with a strong balance sheet to respond proactively to market developments and opportunities for growth. That concludes my remarks. I'll now hand the call over to Bart.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Rick. I'll talk a little bit about the market. Q2 2020 may go down as the most surreal in history for our lumber markets. There is no pandemic playbook in our business, so anything was possible. My last quarter outlook comments essentially were that we were going to match our production to the demand that we were seeing from our customers. In April, this meant curtailments and inventory reduction. Through May and June, as demand began to come back, we reacted accordingly with restarted operations. The markets have not looked back since. Today, demand continues to be very strong in most every market. In North America, repair and remodel, new home construction remain vibrant, with both sectors resuming a growth stance. Time at home, low interest rates, and a desire to seek less densified living has driven the demand for lumber.

These tailwinds continue into Q3, and currently, we are not seeing any signs of slowing. In our export markets, our approach remains strategic. At roughly 4% of our sales, China remains steady from a volume perspective. Our wide variety of species and sizes affords us flexibility in our approach to this market. In terms of Japan, we have seen a reduction in housing starts and a commensurate reduction in demand for lumber. I've been asked many times how this active market compares to the market we experienced in 2018. From our vantage point, the feel is very different. In 2018, supply was artificially constrained for a period due to weather-impacted rail car supply being insufficient to get lumber to market. Additionally, on the demand side, new home sales were slowing due to affordability. This market does not have these factors.

Interest rates and a renewed desire for single-family homes and a robust repair and remodel demand is driving lumber demand. On the supply side, we feel those mills that can produce lumber are doing so feverishly. In the recent past, logistics has not played a material role in constraining lumber supply to market, and inventory levels throughout the supply chain remain lean by all accounts. However, we should expect some volatility in car supply as rail ramps back up to capacity. This being said, COVID, COVID-19 will continue to drive uncertainty in the months ahead. So as always, we are focusing on the fundamentals, producing quality lumber and servicing our valued customers. I think I'll leave it there and turn it back to you, Ian.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Okay. Thanks, Rick and Bart. Operator, we're ready to take analyst calls now.

Operator

In order to ask a question, you will need to press star one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, press the pound or hash key. As a reminder, today's Q&A session is for analysts only. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from Sean Steuart from TD Securities.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

Thanks. Good morning, congratulations, Rick, on the appointment.

Richard Pozzebon
EVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Thank you.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

A few questions. I guess for Ian or Bart, it seems that there's constraints in the lumber industry's ability to add supply quickly to address the price environment we're in right now and really strong demand. Can you speak to, I guess, perspective on your system's ability to add incremental supply in the near term, and broader thoughts on industry constraints over the near to midterm?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Well, I'll take a shot at it, and then maybe Bart can take a shot at it too, Sean. So thanks. So for our mills and operations, Sean, we're... I mean, we're running out all hours that are available. So you know, where it's at, or I guess, where the constraints would come in or the ability to add, is pretty limited. The fallback for where we may not be producing is when we're actually doing capital projects. So for example, in the last quarter, we had our Eatonton mill in Georgia was down for a significant part of the quarter and has recently started up. Our Molalla mill in, you know, the Pacific Northwest also was down for a project for a number of weeks.

So it's sort of self-induced, you know, downtime that we had. Now those mills are back up and running, and so as we're working through the project schedule is where we're, you know, maybe losing some hours, but, you know, obviously, that work's paying off as we bring those mills back up, as an example, Molalla and Eatonton. The labor availability relative to COVID is, you know, the other factor, and you know, there's particularly in the South a lot of employees that are either self-quarantining or in some cases, have tested positive. So, our team in the South is really adjusting operating schedules to match that. At this point, there hasn't been anything significant that has or material that has impacted us from an operating standpoint.

So we really are adding, or running all out as we can. The availability of labor is a bit of an issue to, you know, hire or try to add, you know, additional shifts and stuff, you know, like that, like that. And it's, you know, the government subsidy programs and other factors, even though unemployment rates continue to be high, it's still a struggle in some regions to, you know, to get employees, but we're working on that. But I'll pause there, Sean, and then see if Bart wants to add any color to it from his perspective.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Just two things. Firstly, you know, at these kind of numbers, everyone's trying to figure out how to make a little bit more, and that's been happening for some time. So I would be surprised if there's any mill in North America that isn't doing everything they can. The other point is on the imports into the US, mainly from Europe. We are seeing some increases there. You know, they're on track, likely for, you know, a 20-30% increase. However, they're starting off from a fairly immaterial base of production. So, you know, when you take that all of that into account, I think the supply side response is in full motion.

And really, this thing is about inventories in the supply chain, and then just the extraordinary demand levels that we're seeing for lumber.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

That's, that's useful detail. Thanks for that. Second question, before I get back into queue, your log sales moderated a little from Q1, and that was a big driver in Q1, I think. How should we think about log sales, I guess, mostly from the coasts going forward for you guys?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Well, I'll take that, and then maybe Rick, if I miss anything, you can jump in. But yeah, you're right, Sean, we had a really strong sales program in Q1, and drove our inventory down on the coast. So Q2 wasn't as robust on that end, but it's now building, and we see, you know, very positive outlooks in this quarter coming up with our log sales from the coast. So it was an inventory drive down in Q1, you know, kind of a rebuild through Q2, and what we believe is a decent setup getting into this quarter.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

Okay. I'll get back in the queue. Thanks very much, Ian.

Operator

As a reminder, to ask a question, press star-star one. Your next question comes from Paul Quinn from RBC Capital Markets.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Thanks very much. Good morning, guys.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Good morning.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Morning.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Hey, just on lumber shipments in the quarter, we expected a downtime in Canada, given the lack of a price response for Western SPF. But, Southern Pine prices were actually pretty strong in Q2 and, you know, obviously strengthened further in Q3 here. And so, I expected to see more volume out of the US South, but I suspect part of that is because Eatonton and probably somebody else was down on the quarter. Do we expect Q3 to ramp back up to, you know, Q1 volumes or possibly Q4 of 2019?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, Paul, there was, you know, those two mills that you talked about were impacted, and that did... You know, when we did come back, they were down for a number of weeks. They're both running now. We do have some scheduled downtime at Georgetown with its second part of its project, but, you know, nothing else material. So, you know, our run rate or production rate, you know, I would expect as long as, you know, our business is as good as it is today, will be higher than it was in Q2.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, let's hope so. And then just maybe on export lumber, I thought I heard you say 4% of sales is exported, but was that just China, or what is the-- I guess, the question is really, what, what's this percent export right now, and what was that number like three or four years ago?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

So it's specific to China. And the number was higher four or five years ago. You know, our business in China is, I would say, a bit unique relative to our competitors. We've got such a wide variety of species that we produce and products that we produce, and so the business that we target over there is really somewhat niche-oriented. And we're really afforded the ability to step in and step out. And so, you know, a large part of what drives what we do over there is what's happening in North America. You know, there are certain products that the overseas markets are always competitive on, and those shipments continue to be steady.

And then there's others, some of the higher value products, where when you get a healthy North American market, you know, they're challenged to keep up. They've got other alternatives from other, you know, producing regions. And so, you know, I think there's sort of a meeting of the minds that they pause on those types of items when North America's busy. So right now, it's 4%, but, you know, the—I guess, the purpose of that comment really is to provide some context around the fact that, you know, we're not this—we're not a large SPF producer that's got, you know, a significant material business in China or even a dependency on China.

We're sort of a consolidated boutique supplier of a number of different products and species that we sell when it makes sense to our overseas markets.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, and then just, maybe you could talk about the sustainability of the current demand, you know, what your customers are telling you, with respect to, you know, the demand going out, how confident you feel that, these prices are, you know, this level of demand is sustainable?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

You wanna take that, Bart?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, that's the, the $64 million question.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Easy one. Easy one.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, that's right. Well, so what I can do is I can give you some context on the conversations that have taken place over the last, call it, two to three months. You know, when this thing first, when the COVID-19 sort of stepped in, in March and early April, you know, the conversations with the customers were all focused on, you know, the next two weeks. And that's really all, the only visibility that anybody seemed to have, confidence in. Anything else beyond that, you know, was obviously less certain. That has segued into, you know, some pretty good certainty over the 30-60-day period.

You know, I can get a very good feel for where our customers are 60 days out. But I can tell you the narrative, it's almost every time you make the phone call, the narrative shifts slightly. And now the conversation is, is that, "Geez, I hope we get a little bit of a lull in Q4 that puts us in a position to rebuild the inventory supply chain, so that we're ready for Q1, 2021." And so, yeah, starting to get some, some of the large- some of our large distributors, talking about how this is going to set up for 2021, which gives me a pretty good feeling for, you know, obviously through Q3, but even, even to an extent, in Q4.

So hopefully, that gives you a context in terms of, you know, what's gonna happen in the next little while. I think, I think we're all, you know, playing our cards fairly close on, on, on saying anything that would be specific in that regard.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, that's helpful. And just lastly, on Southern Pine lumber sales to China, you know, you've got, in my mind anyways, a specific advantage given the proximity of your mills to ports. Has that picked up, and how material would that be going forward?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

So again, it's somewhat similar to what's happening in the West. So the, you know, there are certain low grades that the overseas markets are competitive. But when it comes to number two and better, those products are just lagging. The prices are lagging overseas and by a significant amount, not just a small amount. And so really, those markets aren't buying those right now. It's mostly a low-grade play, and those volumes continue as they always have. Now, that's a short-term phenomenon. We all know that North American markets are far more volatile than what's experienced in the overseas markets. And so we know full well that in the medium to longer term, the diversification of Southern Pine lumber into the export markets is important.

There's a number of us that are focused on it, and we feel good about the future. It's just short term right now, they've got alternatives that allow them to purchase the lumber they need for less than what they can buy North American lumber today.

Paul Quinn
Managing Director and Head of Paper and Forest Products Research, RBC Capital Markets

All righty. That's all I had. Thanks very much, guys.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Best of luck. Thanks, Paul.

Operator

Your next question comes from Mark Wilde from Bank of Montreal.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Morning, guys.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Hey, Mark. Hi.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

I wondered, could I kind of start with, with Bart? I'm just curious, Bart, if you can talk with us about kind of seasonal cadence in the lumber business. I'm just trying to get a sense of when we would typically expect to see some different seasonal slowing in demand just because of the weather.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah. Well, so right now, we're kind of, I suppose, bucking the trend a little bit. You know, August is normally a period of time, especially in the south, where we see demand taper off, but that is not the case today. So it's almost like the seasonality piece is shifting around. And I think part of the biggest issue I see out there is really the supply chain. I mean, there was a period of time where, you know, we were lowering our inventories, you know, our competitors obviously were as well, but the distribution channels were also lowering their inventories.

So we've got ourselves in a position where, you know, the demand has increased, and there's really just not the buffer of inventory in the marketplace that would absorb some of that volatility in demand. So that demand, you know, that is just being felt right immediately at the mill level. So when I look at fourth quarter, normally seasonality would say that the demand would slow down a bit, and that may and probably likely will be the case.

The part that I'm not so sure of is from an inventory perspective, and to what degree will that period be used as the opportunity to build back up the supply chain in anticipation of, you know, what could be a robust Q1, Q2 of 2021? And that's the piece that could see us, you know, with a decent market through the balance of the year.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Yeah. Okay. The second question I had, and maybe it's for Ian, can you just speak to what you're seeing in terms of log costs around all three of your regions?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, for sure, Mark. The US South is stable. I would put it that way. We haven't, you know, we haven't seen any major swings. I mean, there's, you know, little uniqueness here and there. Pacific Northwest, much the same. BC Interior, with the July 1st stumpage reset, CAD 10 a cubic meter down, positive that way. The concern, I guess, that, you know, I guess what we would like to see is, on the BC side of it is, in this market, just monitoring the bid prices of the open market timber and, seeing how, you know, that the behavior of the lumber market might drive some of that bidding behavior on the open market.

But, you know, just as a reminder on the BC Interior, the three mills that we have there are pretty secure tenure. So, you know, the strategic acquisition we did around Adams Lake last year was to be able to insulate us from, you know, those swings that we see in the BC Interior when the open log market, you know, exceeds what your own delivered tenure can do. So, Grand Forks, Castlegar are in very good shape. Adams Lake is in much better shape. And so, you know, I would say generally okay right now. And we don't see anything significant on the horizon changing in those regions other than what I talked about with BC and just monitoring the open market bidding.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Yeah, of the three regions you're in, Ian, it's always seemed to me that in the Pacific Northwest, there is a linkage between kind of the movement up or down in lumber prices and, you know, with a lag, a kind of a similar move in log prices. You are not seeing anything on the upside right now in terms of your log costs?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Not significant, Mark. The... I think what drove, what drives a lot of the Pacific Northwest is the export log market also, and that's where, you know, where we'll see, you know, major competition for that, that log. And at this point, logs are staying in the Northwest, and they're being, you know, consumed by the domestic producers, and the log export market just hasn't driven up the Pacific Northwest logs, like we've seen in different situations.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Then the last ones for me are just kind of around demand and potential demand destruction. I remember several years ago, when we had high lumber prices, people started talking about steel studs and things like that. I'd like to get your thoughts on that. And then I did note the other day that the National Association of Home Builders wanted to go see Wilbur Ross and Lighthizer and some of the other members of the administration on the trade issue. Do you think that if these lumber prices continue to push up or even remain anywhere near where they are right now, that that creates some political pressure to come up with a settlement?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, I saw that headline also, the other day. Yeah, I don't know, Mark. I think that, you know, if you own a sawmill today, whether it's in the U.S. or Canada, it's a pretty good business. But, you know, I guess I don't know how to answer that one on the national home builders and whether they'll make progress on that. But on the substitute products, you know, I'll let Bart take that, but the short answer is we're not seeing a lot of pressure from that. But, Bart?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah. No, it's not a topic that I'm hearing a lot about when it comes to light framing lumber. I mean, it's always a topic when it comes to the Western Red Cedar, you know, whether it's decking or siding or any of those things. There's other, you know, substitutable products that are active in the marketplace today. Haven't heard a lot about the Steel Studs. The piece that actually concerns me more is when you get into prices like today, you'll get some people deferring their projects, especially on the multifamily side. You know, I would imagine. Well, I actually not imagine, I know that lumber's not the only product that's up in price right now.

So there are a number of inputs to building a, you know, a multifamily or single-family home that are up significantly from a cost perspective. And so as those developers look at that opportunity, to, you know, to what degree will they push projects out further and defer demand into next year is a question mark. Now, that said, there's all kinds of demand, and the business is good from a sales perspective for the builders. So I suppose it's make hay while the sun is shining.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Actually, I have one other one for Ian, and that is, Ian, it doesn't seem like the market is really reflecting what's going on in most lumber equities right now. And I'm just curious, I mean, we're gonna, in all likelihood, have quite an amazing third quarter. Would you consider taking any portion of kind of the third quarter windfall, as it were, in looking at share repurchase activity?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, you know, Mark, we - I mean, we talk about that and debate that back and forth. But you know, where we're at right now, and that's always subject to change on different conditions. But where we're at right now with looking at the uncertainty of, you know, the economic or broader economy, unemployment rates, and how, you know, governments and everyone's gonna respond to this, it's kind of playing it a bit safe on that front. However, we are, you know, we do have opportunities internal that that are on our list of strategic projects, and so that's being refined, and we're looking at some of those. Obviously, you know, M&A comes up, you know, and being ready to do, you know, something if, you know, things wind up.

And then the other, you know, components of, you know, like I referred to, keeping that dry powder available for, you know, better insight into, you know, how COVID's gonna play out through the fall and into next year. So it's definitely one of the levers, but at this point, we just don't see us doing that right now and at the price we're at right now.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Well, listen, I'm a big fan of dry powder, but I also, you know, I hope that you're willing, at points, to kind of act opportunistically on things like, like repurchase activity, because it's, it often is the lowest priced lumber capacity you can buy.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, for sure. And, like, like I said, we, we do kick that around on a regular basis, so we're always looking at that opportunity.

Mark Wilde
Managing Director and Senior Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

All right. Sounds good. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Your next question comes from Sean Steuart from TD Securities.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

Thanks. Just a couple of follow-ups. And, I apologize if I missed it in the release, but did you guys have any of the Canadian wage subsidy embedded in EBITDA this quarter?

Richard Pozzebon
EVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Hi, Sean. It's Rick. Yes, we did. We had $4.7 million included in our adjusted EBITDA for the quarter. It's not something we expect to qualify for going forward, though, given our income.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

Understood. And on the 2021 CapEx, you're guiding to still a conservative number. I mean, presumably, you've still got a lot you can advance, whether it's finishing up phase two or early stuff on the third phase in the South. This might be a temporary cash flow windfall, but any context, Ian, you can give us on your decision to stay conservative in 2021 on CapEx?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Well, you know, Sean, the, like, the major CapEx program through phase one, phase two, and then us looking at, you know, phase three, and particularly, you know, one of the mills in Georgia, where, you know, we're getting to the point where a lot of what we had planned to do is starting to get realized, and the mill is getting repositioned to where we want it. So, you know, it, it's not, at this point, would be a lack of cash or funding. It's, you know, where is the next opportunity and how do we get that on, onto the books?

So I would, I would put it more that we in 2021 are looking at, you know, obviously completing the next phase at Eatonton, and then looking at another major capital in Georgia, and available to do more. But at this point, you know, we've been at it for a number of years now, and we're starting to, you know, get into the rhythm of now being able to run these things full out. And I would say that's more the driver of the 2021 CapEx than anything else.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director, TD Securities

Thanks for that. That's all I had.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back over to the presenters.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Okay, thanks, operator. Concluding remarks, I'd like to thank everybody for dialing in and participating in the call, and your interest in our company. Obviously, if you have any questions or follow-up, myself, Rick and Bart are available anytime. Thanks, everyone, and stay safe. Thank you, operator.

Operator

You're welcome. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

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