Interfor Corporation (TSX:IFP)
Canada flag Canada · Delayed Price · Currency is CAD
10.06
-0.04 (-0.40%)
Apr 29, 2026, 10:23 AM EST
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Feb 7, 2020

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thank you, operator. Welcome to our Q4 2019 investor analyst call. With me today, I have Marty Juravsky, our Senior Vice President and CFO, also Bart Bender, our Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing. Our agenda today will start off with myself providing a recap of our strategic priorities in Q4 themes. I'll then pass the call to Marty, who will cover off financial matters, and then I'll pass the call to Bart, who will cover off the market. So first, turning to our strategic focus. With the recent change in leadership, I thought it would be good to reconfirm our overarching priorities. Core to our company, we will continue to maintain our capital allocation discipline. Our focus isn't changing. We'll continue to manage our working capital very closely in achieving and executing on our phase one and phase two strategic capital programs.

We'll also maintain our balance sheet integrity and our strong liquidity. In Q4, our efforts were balanced across the company in each region. We did a lot of work resetting our business for the future, particularly in British Columbia. We completed the closure of our Cedarville on the coast. We dealt with impacted employees and other stakeholders in a thoughtful way. We right-sized our Coastal Woodlands division to reflect a lean marketing logging business, and we reduced a significant amount of associated working capital. For our B.C. Interior, we continue to focus with the B.C. government on the timber purchase agreement for cutting rights in the Babine area, which is, as a reminder, near our Adams Lake division. In the U.S. South, we moved on to our phase two capital, with site and building work and preparation underway at our Eatonton division in Georgia.

I'm now gonna turn the call over to Marty, who will cover off the financial matters.

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Great. Thanks, Ian. Good morning, everyone. Let me begin by just referring to the cautionary language regarding forward-looking information that's on the first page of our MD&A. The focus for the quarter was on improving upon the controllable parts of the business as we navigated our way through a challenging market environment. We think that a significant amount of progress was accomplished and there is more on the come. A few highlights from our Q4 results. From an earnings standpoint, Adjusted EBITDA was slightly higher at $1 7.6 million versus $ 16.8 million in Q3, 2019. This was achieved despite average price realizations being down about Canadian 17 dollars per thousand board feet in Q4 versus Q3.

The factors that contributed to the average price realization decline include lower volumes of high-value cedar as a result of a Hammond mill shutdown that Ian referred to before. Also, as you're aware, our portfolio is weighted towards Southern Yellow Pine species, and Southern Yellow Pine prices were down in the quarter, whereas things like SPF were slightly higher. Production and shipment volumes were slightly lower in Q4 versus Q3. Again, the Hammond mill shutdown factored in, as all of the regions had fairly comparable volumes in Q4 versus Q3. Net realizable value adjustments on log and lumber inventories were -$5 million in Q4, whereas it was a positive contributor to EBITDA in Q3.

So despite those previously mentioned items, Adjusted EBITDA was, as I said earlier, a bit better in Q4 over Q3 as we started to see some early-stage progress from the BC Coast business reconfiguration initiatives. Another notable P&L item in Q4 was a $30.4 million pretax provision for capital asset write-down and restructuring charges. The vast majority of those charges, about $29 million, are non-cash. $13 million related to the write-down of legacy goodwill and $16 million related to equipment write-downs. These adjustments are based on normal course year-end analysis after incorporating our views on operating plans and other macro assumptions. From a cash flow standpoint, as Ian said earlier, a big focus for us has been on working capital discipline over the last number of quarters. More specifically, working capital declined in Q4 for the third consecutive quarter.

In Q4, it came down by about $8 million, despite some seasonal log building in BC, in the coast in particular, as well as the payment of $8 million in severance for Hammond employees. Year-end lumber inventories were near their lowest levels over the past three quarters. Accounts receivable was also down a fair amount, and a large component of the working capital decline over the last couple of quarters is related to the closure of Hammond, as working capital repatriation was a fairly large factor in the shutdown decision. So I wanna talk a little bit more about Hammond shutdown for a second as it relates to the working capital component. Often, working capital repatriation and mill shutdown scenarios involves a lot of risk and often results in compromises on value realization.

In the Hammond situation, our team did an exceptional job on executing the plan, and as a result, we were able to maximize our working capital values very effectively. More specifically, we expect approximately $40 million of working capital back from Hammond. Most of that was achieved in Q3 and Q4, with a very small balance to go in Q1. Further on cash flow for the quarter, CapEx was $37 million in Q4, $181 million for the full year 2019. In 2019, we completed the phase one projects at Monticello and Meldrim and started the phase two project step spending. The result of this double cohort year on projects was a relatively high level of CapEx. Therefore, as we cast forward into 2020, we expect our CapEx spending to come down in 2020.

It should be closer to the $140-$150 million range, of which approximately $100 million will be for discretionary strategic capital projects. From a balance sheet perspective, year-end net debt was $225 million, which equates to about 21% net debt to invested capital. Very strong liquidity at around $363 million. Again, as Ian said earlier, balance sheet is important. Having a rock-solid financial position will continue to be a core principle for us. Lastly, I'd like to quickly mention the recent announcement by the U.S. Department of Commerce from earlier this week regarding the reduced preliminary countervailing and anti-dumping duty rates that would apply to 2017 and 2018.

We recognize that these are not final and are subject to change, but reducing the combined rates from approximately 20% to approximately 8% is very sizable and very notable. To put an order of magnitude around it, we paid duties of approximately $94 million through to the end of 2019. The portion of the past duties paid that related to the 2017 and 2018 years is around $60 million. Virtually all of these amounts were previously expensed and are therefore off balance sheet items for us. With that being said, why don't I now turn it over to Bart to provide some market context?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Marty. I'll talk about three general areas here, this quarter. Firstly, the demand. Secondly, I'll get into a bit on the supply side. Then lastly, I'll talk a little bit on inventory and pricing. First, demand, some positive signs. Obviously, we've seen some good headline news on housing starts throughout the quarter, quite frankly, which has been very encouraging. The aging housing stocks in the U.S. and the increased equity in existing homes continue to support growth in lumber usage for home improvements. Macroeconomic factors such as employment, interest rates, wage growth, all seen as positive. How that translates into order files for Interfor, we've got a solid order file across the network, with the vast majority of inventories that are sold and in the queue to be shipped.

On the supply side, low single-digit net growth in lumber production in the Southeast has been more than offset by the significant permanent curtailments in Canada. The export markets are challenged by trade negotiations. However, still very meaningful volumes for the industry in the overseas markets. For us, our export business has been steady quarter-over-quarter. Imports from Europe, essentially the same year-over-year. Looking at North American lumber production, it declined in 2019 versus 2018, again, primarily as a result of the massive permanent curtailments in BC. On the inventory side, always difficult to gauge. We continuously poke the market to try and find out what the inventory situation is. Our customers are telling us in-market inventories are in the range of 30-45 days of consumption.

I would say that that's a bit below average, as we head into the spring building season. For Interfor, again, our inventory is essentially committed and tied to how fast we can ship them, quite frankly. In terms of buying patterns, I would say they've changed in 2019. It's what I've termed as just-in-time buying, and that's encouraged by ample availability and stable logistics, which we've seen pretty much throughout 2019. On the customer side, they've been able to find what they've needed, and for fairly quick shipment. So far, seasonal dynamics haven't played much of a role. I think that's beneficial from a logistics standpoint, both in terms of shipments to the market, but also in the construction activity in the market.

So we're having a decent winter when it comes to producing and shipping lumber, but also consuming lumber. We're encouraged by the fundamentals that we're seeing so far in the marketplace. We look forward to these translating into higher lumber prices in 2020. With that, I'll turn it back to you, Ian.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Okay, thanks, Bart. Carol, operator, we're ready to take questions.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, please press the pound or hash key. Our first question comes from Hamir Patel from CIBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Hamir Patel
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, CIBC Capital Markets

Hi, good morning. Ian, it seems like there's been some discussions in the BC industry that the province may look to modify the lag in the stumpage equation later this year to make it more market based. You know, how meaningful could that be, and any sense as to when the likely timing of that could be?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Hamir.

... Yeah, the, I guess, Hamir, the way that I would answer that is there's ongoing discussions with, the BC government, both on the coast and the interior, with different dynamics and different, you know, drivers on, you know, costs and efficiencies and, what have you. But, you know, there hasn't been anything, you know, significant or concrete that, you know, has changed relative to the stumpage, calculation. But, you know, industry is working closely with, the government to look at all those variables on how, you know, we can get, you know, cost, back in line with, with where we think it needs to be.

I mean, just as a reference, I believe the coast is operating at 30% of capacity right now, so, you know, very, you know, very challenging with, you know, 70% down. So, just ongoing, Hamir, I don't have any other information, other than that.

Hamir Patel
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, CIBC Capital Markets

Fair enough, Ian. That's helpful. And just one for Bart. Any sense yet as to how the coronavirus is affecting takeaway of both lumber and logs in China?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah. Obviously, a subject that's front and center for us. It's a little hard to say. I'd say that file is kind of emerging. You know, we haven't got really the industry back in and working yet. That's due to be next week. The biggest concern, I think, from my standpoint, is the backing up of the supply chain. You know, we've got that adding an extra week before people come back. You've got a bunch of ships that are queued up to go into port, and obviously, the efficiencies of the port today are very low.

So that's, that's my biggest concern, and I think that that could cause some delays in some shipments, you know, not only in lumber, but, you know, in all the products that are imported into China. And so I think that's the focus item today, to make sure that we're managing that and minimizing any risks on product on the water. And then, you know, in the next couple of weeks, couple or three weeks, I think we'll have to gauge, you know, what the market impact is. At this point, we're unsure.

Hamir Patel
Managing Director and Senior Equity Analyst, CIBC Capital Markets

Okay. Fair enough. Thanks. That's all I had. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Our next question comes from Mark Wilde from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Morning, Ian, Marty, Bart.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Morning.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Morning, Mark.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

I wondered, just to start off, Ian, do you think that this change in the duties will alter kind of plans in terms of any potential further capacity rationalization, or whether it might actually bring some capacity back into the market?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

You know, Mark, we've talked about a lot with this recent announcement. You know, I think that the fundamentals of investment in running your operations are just gonna come down to what the price outlook is. So, you know, at this point, I don't know of anything that would change. I haven't heard of anything that's gonna change, and I think it's just too early to tell, you know, where this is gonna go. But at the end of the day, where the lumber price is and the fundamentals are really, I think, gonna drive those decisions on the outlook. You know, Marty, do you have anything?

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, and Mark, remember also, like, when we look at the rationalization that happened in BC last year, there were a lot of drivers. The single biggest driver was log availability and log costs. And so the fundamentals haven't changed in terms of the contraction of log availability. So, you know, I can't speak for all of the situations, but a good chunk of the mills that have rationalized just didn't have the adequate log supply, and frankly, some of them have been dismantled. So I can't see a scenario where those permanent curtailments aren't anything other than permanent.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay, just on that, Marty, I thought in some places in the interior, there were a number of mills in the fourth quarter that were down, kind of running a single shift. Are you aware of any kind of changes at any of those single shift mills?

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

No, not at all.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

They seem like they would be the things that are on the bubble.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, and recognize also some folks will take a path to permanent rationalization in steps, and taking down a shift, taking down a line, it's not meant to be temporary, it's meant to be a step towards something more permanent. So yeah, I don't see, I don't see any shift back in those that we have visibility on.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. And just again, on the kind of supply side, can you give us a little more information on where we're at with the tenure transfer? I see that you're still kind of pointing to a first quarter resolution, but it just seems like these things often wind up getting tied up and stretched out from a timing perspective.

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Well, I think your last comment is a pretty accurate characterization, stretched out. We announced that deal with Canfor back in the summer of 2019, and we've kind of worked very collaboratively, collaboratively with them, communities, First Nations.

... various folks, the government. And so the application is in the government's hands. They're working it through, and there's continuing feedback, but we haven't had a decision yet back. So we're still awaiting that. They've indicated to us it should be shortly. Shortly is all in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. And then, Bart, I wondered, is it possible for you to talk about sort of the ways in which you think this Central European spruce beetle will affect the industry and affect Interfor?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Okay, big topic. So there's a number of ways. I mean, there's obviously, the impacts on the lumber market. There's also the impacts on the log market. You know, I think that there's... We're hearing that there's a fairly short lifespan, of these, these logs once they're impacted by the spruce beetle. And so, I think that that's tempering, the industry from spending too much money on, on, you know, lumber capacity, lumber production capacity. And so I think there is a, there is a, a limit on how much of that can be done. Bottom line is, is that it's gonna drive a higher level of low grade, and so we're gonna end up competing with that low grade, in, in our overseas markets.

It'll also, I think, encourage the producers to target the U.S. market on dimension. And I think they've been doing that. You know, so we're seeing the impacts of that today already. And I'd say so far, those volumes have been, well, they've been steady year-over-year, essentially the same. And the growth that certainly is being forecasted for next year is fairly moderate. It's the log side, I think, that's probably the bigger impact, as they try to get some economic value out of that, out of that timber. And so I think that, you know, the primary market for that is China, and that's where we'll see the most impact. For us at Interfor, that's fairly small.

I mean, that's not a huge part of our business. But for other countries, it's a lot more significant.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Yeah, I guess like in New Zealand.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Correct.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Yeah. I'm just curious: Does the beetle-damaged wood, does that compete directly with a lot of the stuff that you guys had been exporting into China? The, sort of your own lower grade stuff, some of it maybe still beetle damaged from BC?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Well, I mean, the, you know, the low grades, a lot of that's used in, in, you know, whether it's packaging or concrete forming or things like that. You know, I would say that the low grades that you'd see out of Europe would be similar in terms of how they'd be used. So that's... Yeah, we expect some, we expect some impact. Their ability to ship into certain parts of China is a little bit different than ours, and so, you know, I think the markets will sort all that out on where where we're able to compete and where we're not.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Just, you know, just as a reminder, Mark, it's Ian. I mean, our, as you know, our Southern Interior mills are really green fiber with no, no beetle kill aspect. So our grade offering to, you know, China is, you know, different than, you know, northern BC, Cariboo area. We just have, you know, a higher quality fiber in the Southern Interior.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. And finally, Ian, just, you know, it's, I guess, what? You're in your second month in the chair there. Can you just talk with us about what we might see shift, even if it's a kind of a subtle shift, at Interfor under your leadership?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

You know, Mark, I mean, I obviously thought about this a lot and, you know, internally have, you know, communicated, you know, what, you know, what I believe and, and my team, believes is, is our outlook, and frankly, it's not a lot. You know, I think we've got a good strategic plan that has been refined over all of the years. You know, I think it's always, you know, an opportunity to take a fresh look at the portfolio and, you know, what needs to, you know, be invested in, and, you know, what opportunities might be out in the field. So, you know, the great thing about, I think, our company is, you know, particularly over the last decade or so, we've got a playbook.

We feel comfortable with it, and there's not a lot of changes. And, you know, as I in my opening remarks, I mean, capital allocation is, you know, something that we think about a lot, and maintaining that, you know, focus is probably the biggest thing that we're always talking about. You know, are we doing right when it comes to use of capital? And then, so I think I don't know if that, you know, it sounds boring, but I don't see a lot changing.

Mark Wilde
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay, fair enough. I'll turn it over.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Mark.

Operator

Our next question comes from Sean Steuart from TD Securities. Please go ahead.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director in Equity Research, TD Cowen

Thanks. Good morning, guys. Follow-up question on the timber tenure acquisition.... If the deal isn't approved, how long do you envision Adams Lake being able to sustain two shifts? How is that thinking evolving?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, so, you know, the Adams Lake Mill, you know, it was built, it's super competitive. You know, it was built to compete on the open market for fiber. And with the rationalization in that area of Southern BC, what was the number of money in that area? One-

Sean Steuart
Managing Director in Equity Research, TD Cowen

About 1 billion board feet.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

About 1 billion board feet of capacity has been permanently taken out around that area. So yes, you know, the timber transfer is very important for us for the long-term view of Adams Lake, but it also is the most competitive mill in the region. And you know, over the last year or so, we've you know, obviously, had the benefit of a few tough decisions that other companies have made in that area with rationalization. So I would feel very, very good about Adams Lake running on full shifting.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director in Equity Research, TD Cowen

Got it. Question for Bart. I just wanna touch on the Southern Pine market in a little bit more detail. It's been a relatively sluggish start to the year, and you, you mentioned European imports being a factor of the margin. Can you talk a little bit about capacity growth in the region, your sense of all the Greenfield mills that were built, how those are ramping brownfield expansions, including some of the work you've done? How is that affecting the operating rate environment in the region?

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Okay. You know, if you look at the information that's published by the Southern Forest Products Association, they talk about year-to-date shipments out of the South being 2% above the same period in 2018. So really, it's the expansion of volumes has not been that significant. And I think that—I think there's a couple of things. One is that when you're allocating capital and putting in equipment down in the South, mills are not as productive through that process. And then also, when you ramp up, they take a little bit longer than I think people anticipated. And so we just really haven't seen the, I suppose, the production come online, you know, compared to all the announcements that were made.

I think we'll see some of that continue in 2020. It's a little uncertain to say. In terms of the South, you know, it's. I talked earlier in my comments, this whole just-in-time buying, I think it's probably most evident in the South, you know, predominantly truckload shipments. So, you know, the order files are generally fairly low, and the shipments very quick. So I think that the buyers down there have gotten used to being able to get what they want. And, you know, I think the weather so far this year, it has been a little bit wet down there, but you're seeing some of the bigger markets really, really pick up. And so we're, we're...

Quite frankly, we're a little bit surprised that the South hasn't, you know, come, hadn't seen a little bit more tension, especially when you compare that to the West. I mean, in particular, how the stud market in the West is very strong. And so if you look at the historical trends, you know, I won't make any sort of forecast, but if you look at the historical trends, the South has really shown an ability to respond to, you know, the price increases in the West. There have been disconnects every once in a while. We have one right now, but historically, they don't last very long. So hopefully, that answers some of your questions. I mean, it's a big topic, a big discussion item.

Sean Steuart
Managing Director in Equity Research, TD Cowen

That's great, Bart. I appreciate it. That's all I have, guys. Thanks.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Sean.

Operator

As a reminder, it's star one on your telephone in order to ask a question. Our next question comes from Paul Quinn, from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

Yeah, thanks very much. Morning, Ian, Marty, and Bart.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Hey, Paul. Morning.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

Hey, just to follow up on this SLA potential reduction in August. What's your view on an implication if we get the 20 down to 8, the effect of that on lumber prices?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Well, well, okay, over to Bart.

Bart Bender
SVP of Sales and Marketing, Interfor Corporation

Yeah. So you know, that's—I've been asked that question a lot in the last little while, and you know, really, it's a cost item just the same as logs are a cost item. And you know, when you look on the revenue side, the price is obviously an impact as well. And the magnitude of the reduction, although meaningful, it doesn't really change how we would approach the market. I mean, our efforts in the marketplace are to price our lumber at the highest possible price that the customer is willing to pay. And so you know, we've tried to keep that duty influence out of it. I think it does bring a little bit of uncertainty from the buy side.

But really, if you consider all the inputs and variables that are involved,

... you know, on the cost side of lumber, this is just one of many that, quite frankly, have been very volatile over the last while.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, so, so net-net, do you think it'll go down?

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

Well, let me chime in on that one. You're asking about what, what the market's gonna look like in the month of August. There's all kinds of variables.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

Yeah.

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

So in some ways, you almost have to strip away the softwood lumber duties and just say, given the cost curves that exist, does the current price environment make sense? The current cost and price environment doesn't make sense, given the cost environment. So, you know, you sit back and say, "Okay, something's gonna change. Something will change at some point." We just don't know exactly what the path is. So trying to predict what things look like in August is probably a bit of a mug's game, Paul.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, it, you know, just to add to that, you know, the only thing right about a forecast is that it's wrong.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

That's my job. Maybe to flip over, Ian, you mentioned the coast operating at 70%. What, Interfor coastal operations, are they running right now?

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah. Yeah, they are, Paul. So our coastal woodlands is operating, and our Acorn mill is operating on its normal operating cadence.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, and then just, I know you guys are focused on executing on phase one and phase two capital projects, but just wondering about the M&A side, whether, you know, this year has got off to a sluggish start, especially in the U.S. South. Just wondering if, you know, you see more opportunities to acquire mills, you know, or mill owners actively marketing their facilities.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Yeah, hard to answer, Paul. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's, you know, the environment is gonna dictate that on one-offs. But, you know, we monitor that, and there's always inbound calls, but, yeah, I don't know.

Marty Juravsky
SVP and CFO, Interfor Corporation

I mean, the reality is, we've looked at lots of situations all the time, so just the current environment doesn't really change the fact that there's always stuff that's out there, but there's a pretty strict set of criteria that we have. So sometimes you get buyer and seller who have alignment, and sometimes we see situations that don't meet our criteria, and we don't spend an awful lot of time on those situations. So it's pretty hard to handicap other than to say we look all the time and have been looking all the time, but we're gonna stick to our criteria.

Paul Quinn
Director of Paper and Forest Products, RBC Capital Markets

All right. Best of luck, guys.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Thanks, Paul.

Operator

I have no further questions in queue at this time. I'll turn the call back for closing remarks.

Ian Fillinger
President and CEO, Interfor Corporation

Okay. Well, I'd like to thank everybody for dialing in and participating in our update call this morning and your interest in our company. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to myself or Marty anytime. Thanks again, and have a great day.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you once more for participating. You may now disconnect.

Powered by