Okay, I'm told I'm good to go. Good morning, everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Ed Sonshine, and as Chairman, I would like to welcome you to the 2025 Annual Meeting of Unit Holders of RioCan Real Estate Investment Trust. The meeting is being held in a hybrid format, with many of you joining us in person and others joining virtually through our live webcast. We welcome everyone in attendance today. It's great to be able to see many of our unit holders in person again for our annual meeting. A recording of this webcast will be posted to our website for a period of time after the meeting. We're pleased to have our trustees in attendance today.
I would like to acknowledge, first, the remarkable efforts of the team at RioCan over the course of the last year, which has certainly been an interesting year in the real estate business. They've led RioCan to achieve its financial objectives and exceptional operational accomplishments as we enter our fourth decade of success. I'd also like to thank those unit holders who have chosen to attend this meeting today and to all those who submitted their proxies in advance on a timely basis. It's now shortly after 10:00 A.M., and I would ask that the annual meeting of the unit holders come to order. I will act as Chairman of the meeting. I will ask Ms. Jennifer Suess, Senior Vice President, General Counsel, ESG, and Corporate Secretary to act as Secretary of the meeting, and representatives of our transfer agent, TSX Trust Company, to act as scrutineers.
Today, we intend to first proceed with the formal items on the agenda, following which Jonathan Gitlin, our President and Chief Executive Officer, will be making a presentation. Following Mr. Gitlin's presentation, we will answer questions from unit holders. The minutes of the last annual and special meeting of the unit holders held on June 4, 2024, are available upon request. Before we begin, we have a few administrative matters to note. If you are attending via webcast, much like last year, in order to submit a question, click on the Q&A messaging icon at the top of your computer screen. When submitting a question, please identify whether it relates to a motion being considered as part of the formal business of the meeting or whether it is general in nature.
We will address questions directly related to a particular motion at the appropriate time of the meeting and save general questions until after the formal business has been completed. If you have a question and are present in person here today, please simply raise your hand at the appropriate time, and we will recognize you. Questions with common themes may be grouped together for efficiency. Ms. Suess will read any questions submitted virtually aloud when requested, and either Mr. Gitlin or I will respond. We will make every effort to answer all your questions during today's Q&A period. However, in the interest of time, we are limiting the Q&A period and will address any unanswered question in a timely manner afterwards. If your question is not answered during the meeting, a representative will follow up with you with a response.
Each trust unit representative at this meeting is entitled to one vote. Anyone attending in person who has yet to cast their vote can do so by ballot. If you require a ballot or would like to submit your completed ballot, please raise your hand at the appropriate time. For those participating through the online platform, when we are ready to table an item of business for a vote, you will see voting options appear on your screen. If you have voted in advance of the meeting and do not wish to revoke your previously submitted proxy, then you do not need to do anything. During the meeting, we may also pause from time to time to review messages from Ms. Suess. Thank you for your patience as we do so. I will now ask Ms.
Suess to provide an advisory regarding forward-looking information that may be discussed in today's meeting.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Please note I would like to draw your attention to the advisory posted on the slide regarding the use of non-GAAP measures and forward-looking information that may be discussed at today's meeting. Certain information to be discussed during the meeting or in the management presentation, which will follow the formal portion of the meeting, contains forward-looking information and forward-looking statements within the meaning of applicable Canadian securities laws. All of the forward-looking information and statements that we may provide at this meeting, which includes all information other than statements of current and historical fact, is qualified by the cautionary statement that is posted on the screen, and additional information can also be found in the Trust's most recent management discussion and analysis for the period ended March 31, 2025, and annual information form, copies of which are available on our website and at SEDAR+ at www.sedarplus.com.
Forward-looking statements are not assurances of future performance and are subject to risks and uncertainties that are difficult to control or predict. The actual results, performance, or achievements of RioCan and its business may be materially different from the anticipated results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements are based on RioCan's officers and trustees' beliefs and opinions, and undue reliance should not be placed on any forward-looking statements. I will now give the floor back to the Chairman to proceed with the annual meeting of unit holders.
Thank you for the floor and those comments. In order to make best use of our time today, certain unit holders have volunteered to move and second various resolutions where required. While this procedure will facilitate the efficiency for handling of the formal matters, this is not intended to limit in any way your right to participate in the meeting. Unit holders who wish to make comments relating to these motions may do so, as said, by raising your hand or through the online platform after the motion has been seconded in the manner previously noted. As mentioned, there will also be an opportunity to ask general questions following the management presentation. As with prior years, the Trust used the notice and access mechanism to furnish proxy materials over the internet to unit holders instead of mailing paper copies.
Copies of the proxy materials are available on the Trust's public profile at www.sedarplus.com and on its website. I've been informed by the scrutineer that prior to the meeting, proxies were received from the holders of approximately 58.07% of all units entitled to vote. As a result, we have a quorum for this meeting, and the meeting is properly constituted for the transaction of business. Before I begin the formal part of the meeting, I would like to share a few thoughts of my own. 2024 marked RioCan's 30th year as a publicly traded REIT. I can't help but note the similarities between the present climate and that of 1994 when the REIT was created. While the reasons may be different, the underlying market sentiment can again be characterized as gloomy and uncertain.
My intention for the Trust from the outset was no doubt influenced by the landscape in which RioCan started. The goal was to create a resilient REIT that could withstand economic cycles and market changes. I stand here now proud to say that RioCan has achieved this goal. Our balance sheet and our portfolio are positioned as intended: productive, stable, and rich with opportunities for growth, the benefits of which our unit holders will enjoy long into the future. RioCan owns a premier portfolio in Canada's most rapidly expanding markets, which notably lack premium retail space. New retail spaces are simply not being developed, and stringent zoning regulations and elevated construction costs will maintain high barriers to entry. This operating environment, characterized by limited supply and high demand for quality locations, creates a favorable and protected market for RioCan's platform. RioCan's operating results continue to be consistent and strong.
They verify the desirability and sturdiness of the portfolio. The Trust has delivered numerous consecutive quarters of record-setting occupancy and leasing spreads. Equally notable is the quality of RioCan's income. The Trust's portfolio consists of strong and stable necessity and value-based tenants. These retailers attract steady foot traffic and are suited to thrive in any economic backdrop. I've long said that we aren't in the real estate business. We're in the business of using real estate to generate cash flow, which we then use for distributions to our unit holders and for retained capital to fund future growth. RioCan has an established history of increasing distributions, including increases in each of the past four years. Our payout ratio is amongst the lowest of our peers and ensures the health and security of the distribution payout to RioCan's unit holders.
From both a balance sheet and a portfolio perspective, RioCan is built for times like this when both safety and growth can be addressed. When you pair these factors with a team as strong as that RioCan is fortunate to have, the future is clear. The fundamental strength of RioCan's platform has led to the Trust's purchase of $100 million of RioCan's units since the start of this year. Jonathan, on behalf of the Board of Trustees, I want to acknowledge your exceptional leadership and express our appreciation to the entire RioCan team for their dedication, entrepreneurship, and collective commitment to unit holder value. I'd also like to convey our gratitude to Bonnie Brooks, who's stepping down from the Board of Trustees after more than a decade of exceptional service. Bonnie, your expertise, particularly in retail and real estate, has been invaluable to RioCan's continued success.
Thank you for your contributions, wisdom, and boundless enthusiasm. Last, thank you to our valued unit holders for your continued support and confidence. I have complete confidence in RioCan's success, supported by a well-qualified and diverse Board of Trustees, of which I am proud to be a part. Now we can move forward with the formal business of the meeting to be followed by Jonathan's insights into RioCan's present and future. After his presentation, we will be happy to address any questions that have been or will be submitted. We'll now proceed with the first item of business for the meeting and present the financial statements for the year ended December 31, 2024. A copy of the 2024 audited consolidated financial statements is available on the Trust's website and at www.sedarplus.com, and were previously made available to unit holders in addition to the proxy materials.
Unit holders do not have to take any action regarding the financial statements. Ms. Suess, are there any questions or comments submitted with respect to the presentation of the financial statements that ought to be addressed at this time?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are no questions received related to this item of business.
Second item of business is the election of trustees. The Trust has advanced notice provisions in its declaration of trust, which allow nominations—just making sure nobody's sneaking up behind me here—which allow nominations to be made by unit holders up to a certain date prior to the unit holders' meeting, which this year was May 11, 2025. No nominations by the unit holders have been received, and consequently, there will be 10 nominees presented to the unit holders for election to the Board of Trustees at this meeting. The management information circular provides detailed biographies setting out the valuable qualifications and diverse backgrounds of the 10 nominees proposed by management, for whom proxies will be voted in favor of their election in the absence of instructions to the contrary. Ms. Suess will now read their names.
We refer you to the slide on the webcast, and I declare the polls open on all resolutions.
The names of the nominees are as follows: Edward Sonshine, Jonathan Gitlin, Richard Dansereau , Janice Fukakusa, Marie-Josée Lamothe, Dale Lastman, Jane Marshall, Guy Metcalfe, Siim Vanaselja , Charles Winograd.
Thank you, Jennifer. If elected, these nominees will hold office until the next annual meeting of shareholders or until their successors are elected or appointed. I now recognize Mr. Edwin Jin, Assistant Vice President, Capital Markets and Treasury, for the purposes of a motion for the nomination of the 10 nominees in the management information circular.
I nominate the 10 persons whose names have been read to this morning at this meeting for election as trustees of the Trust to serve until the next annual meeting of unit holders or until their successors are duly elected or appointed or they otherwise cease to hold office.
Have a seconder, please.
My name is Robert Frasca, Assistant Vice President, Legal, and I hereby second the nominations.
Ms. Suess, were there any questions or comments submitted in connection with the nomination election of the trustees?
No, Mr. Chairman. We have not received any questions related to this item.
Thank you. Accordingly, 10 persons have been nominated for election as trustees, and there are 10 trustees to be elected. Unit holders have been provided with the opportunity to vote for each trustee or withhold their vote on an individual basis in accordance with the rules of the TSX and RioCan's majority voting policy, details of which are provided in the management information circular for this meeting. Will the Secretary please confirm whether the number of units represented by proxy received that were in favor of each of the 10 nominees has reached a majority of those voted?
Mr. Chairman, I confirm that prior to the meeting, proxies were received in favor of the election of each of the 10 nominees as trustees from the holders of units representing more than the majority of all votes cast by proxy in accordance with the Trust's majority voting policy for the election of trustees.
Thank you. I'll now ask Mr. Edwin Jin to move Mr. Robert Frasca to second a formal motion for the election of each of the 10 persons nominated as trustees of the Trust to hold office until the next annual meeting of shareholders or until they resign or their successors are elected or appointed.
Mr. Chairman, I so move.
Mr. Chairman, I hereby second the motion.
Thank you. The meeting will now vote on the motion. Unit holders and proxy appointees attending in person can cast their vote by filling out their ballot. I will now also ask unit holders or their proxy appointees attending virtually to cast their votes through the online portal. As a reminder, if you have already voted or sent in your proxy, you don't need to do anything unless you wish to change your vote. I'll just pause for a moment to allow votes. Okay, that's a moment. Thank you for casting your votes. The scrutineers will tabulate the votes cast, and we will report on the results towards the end of the meeting. Final results will be provided on our website and at www.sedarplus.com later today.
The third item of business for which this meeting has been called to consider and if thought appropriate is to approve the reappointment of Ernst & Young LLP as auditors of the Trust and authorizing the trustees to fix the remuneration of the auditors. May I have a motion for approval of this resolution?
Mr. Chairman, I hereby move that Ernst & Young LLP be reappointed auditors of the Trust and that the Board of Trustees be authorized to fix their remuneration.
Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
Ms. Suess, were there any questions or comments submitted in connection with the reappointment of the auditors?
No, Mr. Chairman. We have not received any questions related to this item.
The meeting will now vote on this motion. Unit holders and proxy appointees attending in person can cast their vote by filling out their ballot. I will also ask unit holders or their appointees participating virtually to cast their votes through the online portal. Any further pause? Anyone in here wish to change their vote or submit? No. Thank you very much for casting your votes. The scrutineers again will tabulate the votes cast, and we will report on the results towards the end of the meeting. The final item of business is the approval of a non-binding say-on-pay advisory vote on executive compensation. This non-binding advisory vote forms an important part of the ongoing process of engagement between unit holders and the board on executive compensation.
Full particulars of the Trust's approach to compensation and details of the say-on-pay vote and unit holder engagement are set out in the management information circular for this meeting. The say-on-pay advisory vote requires the approval of the majority of the votes cast by unit holders so entitled to vote who are present or represented by proxy at this meeting. Although the results will not be binding, the board will take the results into account when considering its policies, procedures, and decisions, and in determining whether there is a need to increase engagement with unit holders. Also, the People, Culture, and Compensation Committee will take the results into account when considering future executive compensation arrangements. May I have a motion to approve on a non-binding basis the board's approach to executive compensation by way of a say-on-pay vote?
Mr. Chairman, I hereby move that the board's approach to executive compensation as set out in the Trust's management information circular dated April 25, 2025, be approved on a non-binding advisory basis.
Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
Ms. Suess, were there any questions or comments submitted in connection with this item?
No, Mr. Chairman. We have not received any questions related to this item.
The meeting will now vote on the motion. Unit holders and proxy appointees attending in person can cast their vote by filling out the ballot. If you have not already done so, I would also ask unit holders or their appointees participating virtually to cast their votes through the online portal. Thank you for casting your votes. Scrutineers will tabulate the votes cast, and we will report on the results towards the end of this meeting. Ms. Suess, is there any other business to come before the meeting?
No, Mr. Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the end of voting on the items of business before this meeting. I therefore declare the polls closed. Please put up your hands so the scrutineer can pick up any ballots that have been filled out in the meeting room. Seeing no hands. Okay. The scrutineers are in the process of completing their final tabulation of the votes cast, but based on the preliminary voting results received, including proxies received prior to this meeting, we can confirm the results of each matter. I'm pleased to report that in the election of trustees, preliminary voting results show that each trustee nominee received votes by more than the requisite majority required.
Accordingly, I declare the proposed trustee nominees have been duly elected as trustees of the Trust to hold office until the next annual meeting of unit holders or until they resign or their successors are duly appointed or elected. On the appointment of auditors, the preliminary voting results show that the requisite majority amount of votes cast were in favor of appointment of the reappointment of Ernst & Young LLP, Chartered and Professional Accountants as auditors of the Trust. I declare that Ernst & Young LLP, Chartered and Professional Accountants are reappointed auditors of the Trust, and the trustees are authorized to fix their remuneration. On the non-binding advisory say-on-pay vote, preliminary voting results show that the requisite majority of the votes cast were voted in favor. I declare this motion carried.
The final voting results will be available after the meeting and posted to the Trust's SEDAR profile at www.sedarplus.com. If there is no further business, I will now ask Mr. Edwin Jin to move, Mr. Robert Frasca to second a formal motion to terminate the meeting.
Mr. Chairman, I so move.
Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
Thank you. All in favor of terminating the meeting, please raise your hand. Contrary, if any. I hereby declare the motion carried and the meeting terminated. Now that the formal part of the meeting has concluded, I would like to ask Jonathan Gitlin, our President and CEO, to make a presentation, and he will, of course, be happy to answer any questions thereafter.
Thank you, Ed. Excuse me, and welcome, everyone. I'm pleased to be here today to provide an update on RioCan's business and the progress we've made towards achieving our goals. RioCan has consistently advanced the mission set by Ed at the Trust's founding to build a resilient REIT capable of thriving in periods of economic fluctuation and a REIT positioned to capitalize on opportunities when the market is favorable. Our consistently strong operating results delivered quarter after quarter demonstrate that this focus is working. RioCan has an irreplaceable portfolio. It's rich with opportunities for growth and positioned to stand strong, stable, and productive in all market conditions. We've achieved this by effectively balancing boldness and prudence, keeping portfolio quality and responsible capital allocation at the heart of our strategy. It is the culmination of years of vision and strategic agility that have brought us here.
We have a platform and a team built for stability and for growth, a productive retail core, strong balance sheet, efficient infrastructure, and a simplified business model. To underscore Ed's comments, the strength of RioCan's portfolio and platform has led to a distribution increase in 2025 for the fourth consecutive year. RioCan's portfolio has never been more desirable or more defensive. 94% of our income is generated from Canada's major markets. The locations where we're concentrated have exceptional demographics and growing populations. The average population within a five km radius of our properties is 273,000 people with a $148,000 average household income. This demographic profile provides a compelling opportunity for top-tier retail tenants, which allows us to continue to improve the quality of RioCan's already strong tenant base.
We prioritize strong and stable tenants with more than 88% of our revenue generated from this category, including grocery, pharmacy, value, and necessity-based retailers. They draw consistent traffic, enhance cross-shopping experience, provide secure and growing income, and increase asset values. The scarcity of strong retail space in Canada's major markets makes RioCan's offering even more compelling. RioCan is well-positioned to thrive in this operating environment, characterized by limited retail space and intense demand for high-quality locations. The Trust is delivering exceptional operational outcomes as a result quarter after quarter. Let me now dive into RioCan's recent operational achievements. The quest for retail space, or more precisely RioCan space, allows us to achieve a committed retail occupancy of 98.7% at the end of 2024. We sustained this record high occupancy rate through the first quarter of 2025. The productivity of our leasing activity is also maintaining historic highs.
Positive leasing momentum continues to be a theme, with the Trust delivering five consecutive quarters of double-digit leasing spreads while maintaining meaningful retention levels. Tenants, simply put, want to stay in our centers. Since the start of 2024, we've made countless advancements in our ongoing initiatives to improve tenant quality and the productivity of our shopping centers. Now, let me just highlight a few of these: seven new grocery leases, three of which transformed retail assets into highly valued grocery-anchored centers; 135,000 sq ft lease with Canadian Tire in the Greater Toronto Area; and 40,000 sq ft of space leased to Royal Bank of Canada at Yonge Eglinton Centre in Midtown Toronto; a land lease for 158,000 sq ft Costco in Oakville, Ontario. In each of these examples, the new use of space is materially more productive than before.
These improvements are evident in every critical measure of operational health for the properties, including NAV, NOI growth, foot traffic, and occupancy increases. These improvements are by design, not happenstance. We seize every opportunity to deliver superior outcomes. Our retention ratio of 93.5%, record high occupancy, and consistent double-digit leasing spreads demonstrate that tenants are loathe to let go of space in RioCan's portfolio. However, retail, it's in a constant state of evolution, and vacancies will occur. When they do, we're well-positioned to trade up, bringing in higher quality, more compelling tenants that contribute meaningfully to long-term growth. In 2024, we also accelerated numerous initiatives to further strengthen RioCan's core business. We optimized our portfolio and enhanced our retail productivity by selling lower-growth properties and investing in our core retail assets. We continued to access diverse funding sources and maintained ample liquidity.
We reduced our net debt to EBITDA within our target range of 8-9 times. We maintained our payout ratio to achieve a leading position within the industry, ensuring stability and potential growth of RioCan's distribution. We advanced and strengthened our business with significant technological improvements, including an ERP implementation. We completed a strategic restructuring that optimized the organization for future growth and reduced G&A. We managed to do this while preserving our industry-leading employee retention rates. At the same time, we upheld our commitment to responsible growth, sustainability, and ethical governance. We received an ESG rating upgrade to AA from MSCI and recorded top desktop performance for employee engagement for the third consecutive year. As we further strengthen our fundamentals, we continue to unlock value in our portfolio. One significant example is achieving our intended scale for the RioCan Living Residential Rental portfolio.
As of the first quarter of 2025, this portfolio is valued at just over $1 billion, including 13 income-producing properties and two properties under development. We're actively monetizing the portfolio, and to date, we have entered into agreements to sell our 50% interest in five RioCan Living assets, all at prices that approximate IFRS values. One has closed, and four are firm, with total gross sale proceeds anticipated to be $197 million. We intend to monetize the remaining RioCan Living Residential Rental assets with a total valuation of approximately $900 million over the next 12-24 months. Given the numerous attributes that differentiate the RioCan Living portfolio, we have full confidence in our ability to continue to unlock its intrinsic value. These dispositions are significant. They crystallize the value created through RioCan's past developments. They enable accretive capital redeployment.
Net proceeds from these transactions will be used to pay down corporate debt and to support RioCan's NCIB program. By monetizing the RioCan Living portfolio, we are further simplifying our business, allowing a continued focus on our core productive retail operation that generates reliable and resilient income. Another area in which we're simplifying is condominiums. We're concluding our current developments, which will return capital to our balance sheet. We've not started any new condo projects in the last two years, and we will not commit any significant RioCan capital towards condominiums moving forward. Before wrapping up, I'll touch briefly on the HBC CCAA proceedings. We'll continue to provide updates as the process unfolds.
However, I want to reiterate our commitment to swiftly utilizing our expertise to secure optimal outcomes for the properties within the JV, to preserving value and continuing to assert the Trust's rights and interests through legal proceedings. As of March 31, 2025, HBC represents approximately 0.6% of RioCan's net asset value. To be clear, RioCan's commercial portfolio, which represents approximately 95% of RioCan's asset value, is thriving. We're strategically simplifying our business to prioritize our retail core. I want to emphasize that we aren't just encouraged by the consistently strong results generated by RioCan's high-quality, major market necessity-focused retail portfolio. We're confident in the fundamental strength of RioCan's platform and its sustainable growth prospects, which has led to the purchase of $100 million of RioCan's units since the start of 2025. We view the purchase of our own units as highly attractive investments.
RioCan's unit price is currently undervalued, which presents a unique opportunity to acquire a leading portfolio characterized by strong, reliable, and expanding core cash flows at a very attractive discount. This is an exciting time in RioCan's history. Our strength and growth are anchored in our core retail portfolio, which is the highest quality it has literally ever been. We have some of the highest quality real estate in the country. These locations, combined with the strength of our strategy, balance sheet, and team, will continue to generate opportunities for value creation, and its growth will accelerate as we continue to simplify the business. I provided a few highlights today, but the team and I are very much looking forward to providing you with additional insight into our strategy at an investor day this coming November.
Before I conclude, I want to thank Ed Sonshine and the dynamic Board of Trustees he leads. Their insight and support are invaluable. Additionally, I, of course, want to acknowledge RioCan's talented leaders and employees. Their dedication is essential to our achievements and our growth strategy. This team's commitment to excellence, operational strength, and efficiency is delivering numerous record-breaking operational results and successfully advancing RioCan's financial objectives. I look to the future with confidence. Retail dynamics favor us, and our commitment to responsible growth ensures stability and prosperity. Our perspective is shaped by three decades of experience and a clear vision for the future. Thank you, unit holders, for your unwavering dedication and trust.
Okay. It's question time. We're now pleased to answer any questions you may have with, you know, Jonathan, you're taller than me. I've just noticed that.
Noticed that.
We're now pleased to answer any questions you may have with respect to the Trust, its financial statements, and its operations during the year. I think there'll be questions that, Jennifer, you'll be monitoring that come in over the webcast. Let's start. Anybody that wishes to ask a question here, raise your hand, and I see one. Sir.
I'm Paul Dernan from Burlington. A very short historical note you'll be interested in. For Lawrence Plaza, opening of 1953, I was there as a kitty, and they had clowns and other things. I recall that. And we lived at 362 Lawrence West, just down the street. Okay. That's a long time ago. My question is this: as you are aware, you may not leave a building, a condo, or whatever vacant.
You fill in forms in the city of Toronto that it is not vacant, and there is a fine if it is. I know you have only a limited amount of condo units at the well. It's not your primary thing. My question is this: what about international people that are buying these units? They are in them only for so many weeks, but effectively it is empty for most of the year. They are filling in the forms, "Oh, no, it's occupied." Is this a contradictory thing here? Are these people not being honest about occupancy on these forms? Do you have a minimum number of weeks that they have to be in, or you handle my question the way you want?
I appreciate the question, and I, too, grew up in the Lawrence and Bathurst area, so I'm sure we crossed paths at some point. The answer to your question really is it's not a RioCan issue in the sense that any condos that we have developed, they get turned over to a condo corp, and then that condo corp has to ensure that people within those condos abide by the rules and regulations, which probably include adherence to applicable laws. I suspect that if people are being untruthful about their declarations, the condo corp might have something to say about that. Of course, the city would also have something to say about that. I'm sure they have bylaw officers that deal with it.
Yeah. No one knows for sure, but I can tell you from the city's point of view, it's not really a fine.
I think they call it an additional property tax, but essentially it's a fine. They didn't collect a lot of money. No. The amount, I think, was like less than 1% of their overall revenue. It's seen more as a punitive thing and trying to force people who have empty units to sell them and, you know, to put that housing back into the housing stock. I don't think anybody really knows how much is there. I equally share an interesting history with Lawrence Plaza. Thank you for mentioning it. Are there any other questions here? Sir.
Thank you for your presentation, Jonathan. My question is about the HBC, which I'm sure you've been talking about a lot in the last year or so. The HBC, do you see that maybe as an opportunity?
Because I think HBC sits on a lot of leases, which might be sitting at a valuation less. They may be paying you less than they could be, and potential future tenants might be paying you a lot more. Do you see this maybe as more of an opportunity than maybe a downside?
I would say that there are certain properties in that portfolio, in that joint venture portfolio, that will serve as opportunities, yes. In that exact, exactly as you've described it, they have lower rents than market, and our team is very strong and will capitalize on getting in better, more effective tenants to take that space.
Thank you.
Questions down at this end? Seeing no further hands raised, are there any questions that came in online, Ms. Suess?
No, Mr. Chairman.
Okay. That means you gave a great presentation, Jonathan. Very full.
Thank you.
Having said all that, and considering there's no further questions, I thank you all for attending, whether you attended in person or you attended online. I wish everyone the best, and I hope we can all see each other next year. Bye-bye.