Timbercreek Financial Corp. (TSX:TF)
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Apr 24, 2026, 3:48 PM EST
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Earnings Call: Q4 2025

Feb 26, 2026

Operator

Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session for analysts. Analysts are asked to raise their hand to register for a question. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

I would now like to turn the meeting over to Scott Rowland. Please go ahead.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for joining us to discuss the fourth quarter and full year 2025 results. Unfortunately, Blair Tamblyn is delayed on a plane and is not currently available for the call. Joining me today is Tracy Johnston, CFO, and Geoff McTait, Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications. I will begin today's call by reading Blair's prepared remarks. Q4 marked a strong finish to the year from an investment activity standpoint, as we anticipated on our last earnings call. We closed the year with strong fourth quarter originations of more than CAD 330 million, driving portfolio growth of 18% over Q3. Net investment income was solid at CAD 25.7 million, supported by portfolio growth and offset by the lower interest rate environment.

Importantly, lower policy rates are now working in our favor, reducing funding costs and supporting net interest margins as origination activity accelerates. Distributable income was CAD 0.18 per share in the quarter, with a payout ratio of 95%. We continue to advance the remaining Stage loans as we look to return this balance to historical levels in the near term. As we move toward resolution on these Stage loans, we have seen valuation adjustments in several cases, leading to a reported loss and book value contraction this period. However, importantly, our distributable income has remained healthy as the underlying portfolio continues to generate strong recurring income to support our consistent monthly dividend. Our disciplined, cycle-tested approach remains firmly intact, and we are well-positioned to benefit from an improving market environment and the resulting uptick in transaction activity.

As these legacy assets are positioned for sale and capital is redeployed, this will further align the portfolio with our growth strategy and add to earnings. This concludes Blair's opening remarks. At this point, I'll quickly cover the portfolio metrics and provide a brief update on key developments with the stage loans, and Geoff will comment on the originations activity and lending environment. Looking at the portfolio KPIs, most were consistent with recent periods and historical performance. At quarter end, 84% of our investments were in cash flowing properties. Multi-residential real estate assets continued to comprise the largest portion of the portfolio at roughly 62%. First mortgages represented 95% of the portfolio. The weighted average loan to value for Q4 was 67.4%, which is slightly below Q3. We continue to be very comfortable in this range in this economic environment.

The weighted average interest rate was 8.1% in Q4, versus 8.3% in Q3 and 8.9% in Q4 last year. The decrease reflects the Bank of Canada's policy rate cuts, bringing the WAIR closer to a long-term average of roughly 8%. The portfolio WAIR is also protected by the high percentage of floating rate loans with rate floors, 89% of portfolio at year-end. Roughly 97% of the loans with floors are currently at their floor rates. I will highlight that we have begun to expand our margins as rates continue to trend downward. In this phase of our business cycle, borrower interest rates tend to decrease with reductions in prime.

However, this is offset by opportunities to capture incremental credit spreads, a reduction in the cost of our bank financing facility, and higher fees driven by increased transaction volumes. This dynamic is familiar to our team. Over 18 years in this market, we have consistently managed through both rising and falling rate environments to ensure that the dividend remains well supported by distributable income. In terms of the asset allocation by region, 96% of the capital is concentrated in Ontario, British Columbia, Quebec and Alberta, and focused on urban markets. We continue to be active from an asset management perspective. We resolved CAD 6.5 million of Stage 3 loans in December 2025, and over the past year, most remaining files have made notable progress, with zoning and other milestones close to completion.

These achievements will position the assets for sale. Substantial progress is anticipated throughout 2026. Overall, we are focused on reducing stage loan balances to traditional levels by year-end, redeploying the capital into new accretive loan investments.

At this point, I'll ask Geoff to comment on the transaction activity in the portfolio.

Geoff McTait
Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications, Timbercreek Capital Inc.

Thanks, Scott. Clear that the real estate industry has navigated another year of transition, albeit marked by several encouraging developments. Broader environments of monetary easing supported a healthy volume of commercial real estate transactions, with approximately CAD 47 billion changing hands across Canada last year. This momentum, coupled with growing optimism for ongoing sector improvement, sets the stage for a strong 2026, with transaction volume is projected to reach nearly CAD 56 billion by year-end. Against this backdrop, as was previously highlighted, new investments in the fourth quarter were strong. We advanced nearly CAD 334 million in 23 new net mortgage investments and advances, predominantly targeting low LTV multifamily assets.

These were offset by total mortgage portfolio repayments of CAD 135 million, resulting in a turnover ratio of 12% and a portfolio balance of CAD 1.24 billion, up CAD 185 million from Q3 levels.

As another measure of the level of activity, gross originations in Q4 were CAD 425 million. Looking ahead, the Q4 momentum has carried into 2026, resulting in a healthy new business pipeline. For Timbercreek, the current interest rate environment aligns well with our typical two-year bridge financing offerings and is helping drive borrower demand while supporting requisite credit spreads. In terms of asset types, we are seeing particular strength in multi-residential assets, continued improvement in retail, and tightening conditions emerging in industrial markets. Although the office market still faces hurdles, return-to-office mandates are changing the outlook, with premium, well-situated properties poised to outperform their peers.

I will now pass the call over to Tracy to review the financial highlights. Tracy?

Tracy Johnston
CFO, Timbercreek Financial

Thanks, Geoff. Good afternoon, everyone. As we look at the main drivers of income, the average portfolio size has grown year-over-year, offset by the WAIR returning to a more typical range following the Bank of Canada rate cuts. Q4 net investment income on financial assets measured at amortized cost was CAD 25.7 million, consistent with Q3 of 2025. We reported distributable income of CAD 15 million or CAD 0.18 per share, compared with CAD 14.1 million or CAD 0.17 per share in Q3. The payout ratio on DI, both for the fourth quarter and full year, fell within our targeted range. As Scott noted, distributable income continues to provide solid coverage of our monthly dividend. We reported a net loss of CAD 1.1 million in Q4, driven by three specific items, all related to the continued resolution of legacy loans and assets.

We recorded ECLs of CAD 8.3 million in the quarter, driven by updated market appraisals on a small number of remaining stage loans. As we have discussed previously, these provisions reflect valuation adjustments, and we continue to make progress on advancing these toward resolution. Second, we recorded a net fair value loss of CAD 4.5 million on net mortgage investments measured at fair value through profit or loss. This reflects a lower-than-anticipated sales price on underlying collateral assets. Third, we completed the disposition of a land inventory asset, which included an operating marina. This resulted in a loss of CAD 2.1 million relative to carrying value. Importantly, the associated operating losses incurred in this marina will not recur going forward. Looking at quarterly EPS over the past three years, with and without ECLs, you will see it's been quite stable, as has DI per share.

Over the medium term, quarterly DI per share has been between CAD 0.17 and CAD 0.21, averaging CAD 0.19 per share over this time period. Looking quickly at the balance sheet. The value of the net mortgage portfolio, excluding syndications, was just under CAD 1.24 billion at the end of the quarter, an increase of CAD 150 million year-over-year. We continue to have capacity to deploy capital against a strong pipeline as we move into 2026.

I will now turn the call back to Scott for closing comments.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Thanks, Tracy. As we look ahead to 2026, our outlook is increasingly constructive. The Canadian commercial real estate market has begun to regain momentum, supported by monetary easing and improving transaction volumes. While 2026 is not without its macro risks, our team believes the conditions for a continued recovery in the real estate industry are deeply rooted. We are seeing this translate directly into a stronger opportunity set for Timbercreek. Our origination volumes remain strong, and we expect this momentum to support continued portfolio growth as the year progresses. In addition, we expect to substantially reduce the stage loan balances to traditional levels by year-end, and that, in turn, creates the opportunity to redeploy the capital into new accretive loan investments to drive distributable income.

Taken together, we believe the company is well positioned for the next phase of the real estate cycle, while continuing to deliver stable monthly income and attractive risk-adjusted returns for shareholders.

That completes our prepared remarks. With that, we will open the call to questions.

Operator

We'll now be taking any analyst questions. If you have a question, please click the Raise Hand button on the bottom of the screen. Our first question comes from Zach. Zach, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Hey, good afternoon.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Hey, Zach.

Speaker 5

Thanks for taking the question short-handed today. There's strong growth in the mortgage portfolio in Q4, and you highlighted that the momentum is continuing into 2026. When you look at funding these loans, is there a specific ceiling for leverage that you're targeting on the overall portfolio?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Do you have to answer? When you say leverage, you mean like the loan-to-value of the loans? Or do you mean like--

Speaker 5

In terms of debt as a percentage of the loan.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Just to make sure I hopefully, I'm gonna answer your question correctly. Please feel free to ask again if I don't. Typically, right, we are leveraged at around 50%, 40%-45%. That's equity, right? We're going to use sort of CAD 0.45-ish of leverage across the book. That would sort of continue in that manner, Zach. For us, right, as we look into 2026, we basically use a combination of our debt facility, right, or repayments to generate capacity for new loans. The other thing we do is as our sort of credit line gets nearer to its optimal capacity, is then what we also do is we increase the level of syndications of loans.

We will go out and use more of an A/B structure. We'll lay off sort of an A note and hold a B Note that tends to be accretive to the overall book. The analogy I would use is kind of like a hotel, right? Like, you want to increase the occupancy of your hotel as much as you can, and then you want to drive rate, right? For us, it's a question of making sure we have the book nice and full, which we were able to accomplish at year-end. Definitely seeing a lot of that common as well. We're seeing a lot of transaction activity, which is great, which has helped keep the book full.

We use syndications in our leverage strategy to help increase that equity return within the book to drive our margins. Does that answer your question, Zach? Or were you trying to get at something else?

Speaker 5

No, that answers it. Appreciate that. My last question here is regarding the impaired loans. There are assets listed for sale or slated to be marketed in the near term. Can you comment on the bidding activity and specifically your willingness to accept, the current market pricing, versus potentially holding the assets for longer?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah, specific bidding activity is the, like, there are assets that are in the market with, you know, bids to come, so I wouldn't necessarily comment on activity yet. I think it's a little premature. When it comes to the price, you know, we're hopeful, obviously, that we could trade at the, at the current price. I think it makes sense to do that. Like, obviously, we will evaluate any bid that we get. We felt it was, you know, if it doesn't make sense or we felt it was ultimately dilutive, we're not forced to make some of these decisions.

That said, we feel pretty good about where we think market pricing is going to be, and what we are really kind of attracted to is that ability to see those resolutions of these files, and then redeploy that capital into a more accretive situation, right? Basically, the Stage 1 of the issues with the Stage loans is that they tend to be at a lower WAIR today. They don't turn books. We don't get them in and those new loans, so we're not generating fees from those assets. These are the things that kind of hamper us in our distributed income model.

For us, right, when we look at an asset, although the price may not be, you know, fantastic in today's market, that ability to take that asset, take that capital, and then redeploy it into a new loan at likely a higher WAIR, earning a new fee, those are the reasons why we're excited about, you know, resolving these issues and taking that transfer price, while, you know, a negative potentially upfront, is accretive to the portfolio down the road. That, and that's one of the things we're focused on, and certainly a key part of that calculus that we evaluate when we're looking at bids.

Geoff McTait
Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications, Timbercreek Capital Inc.

Yeah, I mean, I think it is very much asset-specific decisioning. As we look at, you know, again, dependent on the specific asset, in some cases, you have a current market value. Again, if whether it's perfectly optimal or not, part of the analysis we consider is circumstances where, you know, in addition to the fact that it's not earning, generating a yield for our investors, it may also be an asset that obligates additional capital investment beyond the existing exposure, to carry further, to maintain, to potentially drive incremental future value. There's no definitive confirmation that that incremental exposure will derive a future positive or accretive outcome, such that, you know, decisions get made on that basis as well, right?

It's, again, it depends on the asset, specifically, how the decisioning is made, but there's a fundamental detailed analysis we consider, for the specific asset in question.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah.

Speaker 5

Understood. Thanks. I'll turn it back.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Thanks, Zach.

Operator

Great. Our next call comes from Graham. Graham, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Great. Can you hear me?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah. Good afternoon, Graham.

Speaker 6

Great. First question, just on loan growth, just to sort of understand, it was a good quarter for activity, strong loan growth. Is your messaging that that could persist into Q1? Should we see further loan growth or just further turnover of the portfolio?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

It's a bit of both. Listen, the pipeline is strong, which we're very happy about. We also have some decent repayment activity, which, you know, is important for us to, you know, fuel, to be able to do those loans and generate those fees. We expect to be at sort of a near optimal level in Q1 and going into Q2.

Speaker 6

Okay, great. Appreciate the disclosure you provided on page 21 of the MD&A, just around the individual or the key loans within Stage 2 and Stage 3. The retail Vancouver property, it seems to be the most sizable at CAD 158 million, and it's been in Stage 2 for almost two years now. Two questions: Just why would the asset not be sitting in Stage 3, because it's been in Stage 2 for so long? How much of your current ACL is provisioned against that asset, or how are you feeling about your loss exposure there?

Tracy Johnston
CFO, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah, I can jump in. You know, this loan is obviously on our watch list. Sorry, it's a parcel of a couple of loans, but it's not technically in default. We are monitoring it. It is currently continuing to perform, but obviously, a significant watch list item for us. That's why it's not in Stage 3 versus the other Stage 3 loans, which are technically in default. In terms of overall provisioning on the asset, I mean, this year we took about CAD 5 million on that position, which is really bringing us to-- I'm just adding things up here slightly. We're at about CAD 6.4 million there as a provision on the overall portfolio.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah. And a little more color I can provide too, Graham, is, this is multiple projects actually, and they're very well-located Vancouver redevelopment sites. A major component of it. Sorry for explaining the two years, like, which is obviously a long time to be in Stage 2. Part of that has been ongoing efforts by the borrower with rezoning applications, you know, just to get the projects ready for sale. If I think about that, you know, CAD 150 million, the largest component of it is a primary site downtown, that represents about 45% of that exposure. That asset is actually going to go up for sale in Q1 this year. That's about half of that exposure.

We would expect and are very hopeful for resolution of that, you know, in later Q2, Q3. There's a couple other projects that are also, you know, working through similar timelines, a little bit longer than that. I'd say about, there's about two other projects, about call it 15% each of that exposure, that, you know, we're ideally getting resolution at before the end of Q4 of 2026. It's sort of going to be a multi-stage approach, but it's been sort of the length of time, has been sort of the length of city rezoning processes, which do take a great deal of time. It's a key component to unlocking the value and then to putting it for sale at an optimal position.

That, that's what we've been working through, and that's why that's been there as long as it has been. We're feeling very optimistic that, you know, half of it is coming to market, and we're working with the borrower to get other assets ready for sale this year as well.

Speaker 6

Okay, great. Appreciate the thorough response to that. My last one, if I could, just the weighted average interest rate. Looking at 2025 overall, it's down 100 basis points year-over-year. I guess, given the spreads that you're sort of seeing with your recent activity, and either your outlook or the consensus outlook for rates in 2026, what would you expect for further weighted average interest rate compression?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah. Good question. I'll answer it a couple different ways. The, the where, right, as it is right now, let's just, let's just assume a stable rate environment for a moment, because that's obviously part of that, part of that math. Like, it's a floating rate portfolio, right? If there was future rate cuts, you would expect to see that where start to fall a bit. That said, the other, the other component for us is we have current floating rate loans that are on floors. As those roll over, and they get replaced with new loans, you start to see a little pressure on where as well. You know, you might see a 10, 20, 30 basis point compression in where.

One of the big things that happens, though, and this is a key component of this, is in our business, in the bridge business, there's a certain coupon, right, that the borrower pays, that the borrower can afford. The coupon is that combination of the prime interest rate and then the credit spread that we put on the loan, right? Which is ultimately actually what drives our distributable income. One of the things that we see as interest rates have been coming down, we're starting to expand our margin and our credit spread of those loans. If, you know, as prime comes down 25, 50 basis points, we're able to recapture 25 basis points plus an incremental margin.

When interest rates are really high, it's hard to do that, and actually, credit spreads get tighter because the assets can only support, you know, so much of a coupon. As interest rates have fallen, we're sort of in that, I won't call it Goldilocks, but it's a nice rate of interest where borrowers are happy to pay the coupon. It makes sense for their business models when we're more in that 7%, 8%, 9% range. As interest rates, if they were to continue to fall, we're able to capture expanding margins. I can tell you, sort of over the last six months or those last couple of rate cuts, we have been expanding our margin across all of our property and asset classes.

Geoff, if you want to add anything to that?

Geoff McTait
Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications, Timbercreek Capital Inc.

Yeah, like, yeah, for sure. I think, over the last year, we've definitely seen in the 50-75 bps range of credit spread expansion, which is, you know, again, to Scott's point, I mean, and our leverage underlying is also coming down in cost as prime has fallen, but we are able to capture incremental margin through this period of time while still maintaining, you know, sort of that, the coupon's a little sticky, and it still allows us to compete very favorably in the market and win transactions. Again, we'll see where interest rates go through to the balance of this year. Certainly there is an ability to recapture- you know, at least a portion of, any future cuts through credit spread expansion.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

You would have seen that in that sort of, you know, that COVID period when interest rates were so low. Our WAIR obviously went down quite a bit, but we were still able to hit that sort of mid-nineties payout target ratio. That's a, that combination, as Geoff mentioned, of the lower credit line cost for us, but also an expanded margin so that we were able to maintain that equity yield that's necessary to protect the dividend. It's a big part of the calculus and the model that we run, as we look forward and look at the rates, the rate environment that we're in.

Speaker 6

Perfect. Thank you.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Thanks.

Operator

As a reminder, if you have any questions, please use the Raise Hand button at the bottom of the screen. The next question comes from Stephen . Stephen , your line is open. Please go ahead. Stephen , your line should be open. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Sorry, can you hear me now?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah. Hey, Stephen. Afternoon.

Speaker 7

How are the top? Too many conference calls today. Just on the unimproved land and the improved land, you know, we're hearing through, you know, the banks and things about projects being delayed. I can imagine that these are not income-generating properties, you're relying on the developer to continue to pay the mortgage. I'm just wondering, I guess the easy question, what's the protection, you know, that you get comfort that, you know, the developer has the cash to keep paying the mortgage if there is delays in the projects? That's assuming there is delays.

Geoff McTait
Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications, Timbercreek Capital Inc.

I mean, in general, when we contemplate land loans, which is, you know, again, it's a very small component of our overall portfolio. I mean, they are fundamentally, you know, much lower leverage positions to start, right? You're given the non-income producing reality of those assets, you're prepared to advance, you know, less dollars relative to the value of the collateral security.

Facilities, and again, in general, a typical analysis for us in any loan we're looking at, and certainly, you know, with increased focus over the last few years relative to, you know, underlying sponsor strength, access to liquidity, and cash flow, et cetera, from other assets they own, towards ensuring that, you know, they can support the interest positions on our loan. We also include structures, interest reserves, set capital aside, and you identify an exposure amount you're comfortable with, and then you know, you reduce that amount by whatever you set aside for specific interest obligations. You know, those are general structural elements that we would look at and consider when it comes to land positions, right?

I'm sure if that answers your question.

Speaker 7

Yeah, I think so. I just, I mean, obviously, you know, when you're not income, you know, generating, I mean, has there been, obviously, you're doing your diligence all the time, but is that portfolio-- getting extra diligence that, you know, these developers are solvent or continue to be solvent?

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Well, I think, listen, I again, I mean, to Geoff's point, it is a smaller component of our portfolio, but 100% it's I think when we have land projects, you're looking at, you know, what is the strategy? Are they being delayed? You know, is there does that to sort of take that construction take out, is that happening or not? In our business, in the bridge business, right, we have sort of a constant relationship with our borrowers. You know what I mean? Like, a sort of ongoing communication. To Geoff's point, we typically structure a land loan with interest reserves.

As you get towards what would be the normal maturity event, and let's say the borrower needs a renewal, like an extension, you're negotiating like a replenishment of that interest reserve, right? To take that period going forward. To your point, though, like, and listen, this is happening in land projects, you know, if a borrower doesn't have that liquidity, right? Because they don't have the income, they didn't have the balance sheet to support it. I mean, that's when you unfortunately, that's when you can get yourself into a workout loan and you have to, you have to enforce or come up with a plan with that borrower. Fortunately for us, again, it's not a huge part of our reality.

You know, we've been dealing with, you know, as everyone knows, we have a, we have a fair amount of staged loans in our portfolio, but it hasn't really been growing, right? For us, most of it has been, we're focused on resolutions. I think that just, that just speaks to the quality of things. We, you know, before that interest rate environment, you know, went up in 2023, when these loans, these staged loans are from that period before that, right? When interest rates, when everyone's on the borrowers' balance sheets were super strong, interest rates are very low. Those are some of the borrowers that got caught in the shock of the higher interest rate environment.

Those that, unfortunately for us, are the staged loans we have, that we're working through diligently with our borrowers or through enforcement to get rid of those positions. We've made a lot of progress on that, and that is what we're focused on. We feel good about our ability to resolve those in 2026. I do think, you know, I think about land, right? I mean, there's no question there's land loans out there today, especially in the Toronto and Vancouver market, that I think are under pressure, for sure. Those, those headlines you've seen in other firms and just in the real estate news, which I think is very factual. That's a challenge in those markets.

For us, you know, we haven't done a lot of that historically. If you're doing land today, it's not odd because it's at a reset valuation, and you can again ongoing evaluate those borrowers' balance sheets.

Geoff McTait
Head of Canadian Originations and Global Syndications, Timbercreek Capital Inc.

Yeah, I mean, it really is a good question, and it does sort of get to the fundamental tenet of Timbercreek Financial and the, you know, the largely income-producing oriented focus of our platform, right? I mean, certainly, as I think of it, relative to some of our peers in the market, would be less income-producing and much more land and construction-focused.

I think for all, you know, the very questions you've raised, I mean, I think it's why we've always historically been, you know, opportunistic and limited in scope in terms of where we step into that part of the market. It can provide, you know, good augmentation and enhancement to the portfolio and diversity, et cetera. To Scott's point, you know, at this point, in the current land reality, it's not a bad point in time to be looking at and seeing, you know, good opportunities with strong sponsors on a, you know, on a very attractive risk-adjusted return basis.

For us, we're very happy that we aren't largely exposed to this on a legacy, historical basis, and it remains, again, a smaller part of the overall strategy in general.

Speaker 7

Okay. Sorry to beat that to death. Maybe I want to follow on Graham's question in terms of growth, but not from a loan perspective, but an income perspective. You've got CAD 600 million of loans maturing this year, and you've got these properties that are non-income generating right now that are for sale, and hopefully, you know, you come out with the cash and you can turn those into loans that are income generating. You know, that's one portion of the growth, but I guess with the loans rolling off, is the goal to, if a CAD 10 million loan gets paid off, that you redeploy it maybe into a bigger loan using the credit line? Like, is that how we should think about you generating income growth and not just, you know, loan growth, I guess?

There is a portion of to maintain that growth right now, you know, you're going to have to continue to use the credit line and bring that number up, I guess.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Yeah, like, our use of the credit line, I'm going to say, is consistent. You know, repayments create capacity. Okay, so it is kind of a closed-loop system that, you know, we want repayments, right? Repayments for us generates an ability to then go out and do a new loan, and one of the, and the key component is a new fee for us as well, right? For us, historically, I'm gonna say an easy number for us is about 50% of our loan book should churn every year. We use the word churn to sort of describe that repayment and then redeployment. Churn is a key part of our business.

It allows that redeployment at a current risk level, at a current market rate, and we earn a new fee, so it's an attractive thing to do. How we structurally leverage that, like using our bank line or using a syndication, those are both tools, and they're both effective tools. We're very focused on what is, what is our equity returning, right? Because that is ultimately what pays the, pays the dividend. I think it, when sort of getting to your question, I think so if I get CAD 10 million back, I'm looking at my margin on that loan.

If I had a margin that was a little less, absolutely, you know, Geoff McTait and his team and myself, we evaluate what's out there in the market and where do we think we can get our best risk-adjusted returns. We might sit there and say, you know, something that I got a 250 credit spread, if I see an opportunistic part of the market in today's market where I could capture 300 over, that's a way I can have an accretion, right, to the what you're talking about, to the DI. The other thing for us is these Stage loans, which are absolutely sort of in a substandard current income position. As that money comes back, we can absolutely deploy that at a higher yield than we're making today, right?

It's a big part of-- It's opportunistic for us to get repayments. It allows us to redeploy what we typically think is the best risk return at the time and try to drive incremental margin with those decisions. It is a key part of what we do. It's why we really want to get these Stage loans back because those don't churn, right? It's sort of like managing the portfolio with an arm tied behind your back. For us, we are excited to turn the page on the Stage loans and then be able to pivot these discussions towards growth. Calls like today, when we have to take, you know, impairments to sort of write off positions, which hurts book value, these aren't fun calls for us, and we know it's not fun for our investors either.

It's unfortunately, you know, as a part of that environment, that COVID environment and the rapid rate increase. We very much look forward to, and we've been working very hard to resolve these issues and then move to more of a growth narrative.

Speaker 7

Okay. That's really helpful. I appreciate that. Thanks.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

No worries. Thank you.

Operator

There are no other questions at this time. I'll now turn the call back over to Scott for closing remarks.

Scott Rowland
Chief Investment Officer, Timbercreek Financial

Okay. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We look forward to speaking again when we release our Q1 2026 results. As always, please reach out to the team with any questions.

Operator

You may now disconnect it.

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