Good afternoon. My name is Lindsay. I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Tidewater Midstream and Infrastructure Ltd. Fourth Quarter Results Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press the pound key. Thank you. Mr. Joel Vorra, you may begin your conference.
Thanks, Lindsay. Hi, everybody. Joel MacLeod is here with me today. Before passing the call over to Joel to review the quarter and the year, I'll just remind everyone that comments today may be forward-looking and based on Tidewater's current expectations, estimates, and judgments. Forward-looking statements we express or imply are subject to risk and uncertainties. Actual results may differ from expectations. Further, some of the information provided is non-GAAP. For more info on the forward-looking statements and non-GAAP measures, you can refer to our MD&A. As always, with that, I think I'll pass it over to Joel for a review of the quarter and the 2018 year.
Thanks, Joel. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for making time today to join us on our call. After two fairly weak quarters in Q2 and Q3, an absolute huge accomplishment in Q4 by our entire team to deliver a strong quarter in a very tough Canadian energy environment. We worked extremely hard in Q4 to attract volumes and great to deliver a record quarter for Tidewater in our four-year history, with main drivers being our crude oil infrastructure business and gas storage business. In what has been an extremely challenging Canadian oil and gas environment, we have signed over five new investment-grade counterparties and significantly strengthened our customers and contracts.
We have gone from being a one-asset company, with Bellatrix being our largest customer four years ago, to now having approximately 10 investment-grade counterparties and a 15-year take-or-pay with TransAlta on a CAD 180 million project and a Pipestone Montney CAD 210 million project backstopped by a 10-year take-or-pay with Kelt. Major accomplishment by our team in strengthening our customers and contracts. We have more support from customers than we have ever had and want to continue to utilize this momentum. Want to be clear that Bellatrix is currently less than 1% of our EBITDA, as there seems to be some confusion in the market on our concentration risk around Bellatrix. We strongly feel our two large capital projects are two of the top contracted energy infrastructure projects in Western Canada, in our TransAlta pipeline and our Pipestone Montney sour deep cut plant.
This continues to be reiterated through interest from various large private equity firms and industry peers around being involved in these large-scale contracted infrastructure projects. We are confident in our ability to deliver over 50% EBITDA growth into the end of 2019, which is only six to eight months away with these two large capital projects. Let's jump into a brief update around our two capital projects. First, our Pipestone Montney deep cut sour plant. Construction continues to go extremely well, with pipelines welded and lowered in. We are ahead of schedule on the pipeline front. Plant continues to go well. We drilled what looks to potentially be the longest acid gas injection well in Canadian history and remain confident we will be on time and on budget.
We have signed two new customers over the past few months, including one large investment-grade producer, and the plant is fully contracted. We are starting to receive significant interest around Pipestone phase two and a liquids hub and are working through a funding plan over the next couple of months, which would not currently plan to include equity. Contract term on future expansions is also looking better than anticipated, with the potential for 10-year take-or-pays being possible, where previously we would not have thought we could get the strength of contracts. It's a huge step for us in attempting to lower our cost of capital moving forward. Again, want to thank our customers in Kelt to Pipestone and a few others who wish to remain nameless for all their support, as it means a lot to us. Next project, our other main project being our TransAlta project.
Construction is going well. Weather permitting, we plan to be on budget and potentially ahead of schedule. Team's doing an incredible job on that front. TransAlta has been an absolute pleasure to work with as a partner, and we want to thank Don and Brett and the entire TransAlta team for their support. They have announced that they will be our 50% partner on the pipeline, which we are excited about and excited to deliver them as much natural gas as we can over the next 15-plus years. The initial contract being 130 million cubic feet a day, we are eager to work through expansion plans and attempt to bring 400-plus million a day through the 20-inch pipeline, where expansions generate very attractive returns.
It's going to take us time, not guaranteeing that we are going to get up to even 300 or 400 million a day, but we are real excited about the opportunity over the next 10-plus years to attempt to fill the pipeline. Crude oil infrastructure business continues to be a significant growth engine for us. We do not expect this to stop with continued egress challenges out of the Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin. We look forward to our crude oil pipeline.
We look to grow the crude oil pipeline and tankage storage infrastructure piece as well on a larger scale over the next two to five years. We'll be focusing on longer-term contracts and strong counterparties on the crude oil infrastructure side. We will have moved volumes to approximately 10 new markets here by the end of Q1, and the majority of these are to multi-billion-dollar entities who are looking for long-term certainty over supply. Private equity and industry partners remain a key option for us for larger infrastructure build-outs on the funding side if we choose to go down that path. We do wish to thank producers and refiners for all their support as we push hard to improve market access for Canadian crude oil. Our gas storage business continues to see significant growth and acts as a natural hedge in a tough natural gas environment.
We continue to set new volume records and now have approximately five investment-grade counterparties. Great job by our entire BD gas storage team, and continue to see that as a major growth engine here into the next two to five years. Some great news at our Brazeau River facility, where we had a significant win in fully contracting our fractionation facility for the first time in our history. That NGL season commences here in April, and we signed up two new large investment-grade producers. I think that the most important piece of the puzzle that we just want to emphasize to the market and to our shareholders over the past six months has been our balance sheet. Balance sheet, balance sheet, every key discussion, our plan, it's a focus. Our credit syndicate's been incredible and remains very supportive as we peak on our net debt levels.
We have accelerated capital and are moving a little quicker than we anticipated on TransAlta, which is a great problem to have. Same with the Pipestone pipeline portion of the plant. Just overall, want to be clear that this is a timing issue when you look at our net debt, Q4, Q1. We've got lots of options. Our credit syndicate's been supportive. Private equity continues to be very interested in being involved, and even on pieces like the cogen or maybe even a potential small interest in some of our assets if we choose to go down that path. We are very confident in our ability to fund our existing capital projects and plan to give certainty on our funding plan for our next stage of growth of CAD 200 million-CAD 500 million by the fourth quarter.
The current funding plan for capital into 2020 would be highly unlikely to include equity and want to be clear on that front where our share price is today. I think you've heard us reiterate the interest around private equity, other options, and just want to continue to do so. To wrap up my portion, just again, with customer support being at all-time highs, remain highly confident in our ability to deliver over 50% EBITDA growth into the end of 2019. We wish to thank all our shareholders, our customers, and staff for what was an extremely demanding Q4. With that, I'll pass it back over to Mr. Vorra, and he can walk you through some of the details around the financial side of our Q4.
Thanks, Joel. Hi, everyone. I'll walk through some of the key metrics quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year. Joel touched on Q4 was a big quarter, a growth quarter for us. A lot going on, significant volatility in the market. We saw how the business reacts in the face of that volatility, and I think it's a testament to how not only our risk management team and policy, but also the natural hedges that our assets create among the business. Revenue was up quarter-over-quarter, about 14%, CAD 80 million in Q3, CAD 90 million in Q4. Some of that would be marketing type related, but also fee for service up about 45+% year-over-year from CAD 220 million in 2017 to CAD 320 million in 2018.
The big piece of that would be the increase in the marketing side of the business, but also adding things like the Ram River Gas Plant and long-term fee for service contract there. Also in Q4, the introduction of the crude infrastructure business would have been an adder to that top line. Operating margin quarter-over-quarter was down a little bit, which is expected when you see this volatility. We've got an active hedging program, and when you see the massive NGL and crude oil volatility in the fourth quarter, some of that margin on the top-line operating margin piece gets reduced, and then the derivative side on the financial hedges gets increased, and you'll see that in other income on the income statement.
Year-over-year, 30% operating margin in 2017, 26% in 2018, which is consistent with the increase in the marketing business, which is expected, and I think we've talked about that before. Adjusted EBITDA would be the big one. Record quarter for adjusted EBITDA in Q4, 20% increase from Q3, 25% increase year-over-year. Consistent with what our goal is in that 20% year-over-year EBITDA increase. Very happy on that front and we'll continue to work to grow that metric. As the pieces come together as far as infrastructure and naturally hedging our operations through some volatile times, I think we'll continue to see that number increase. Debt would be a big one, I think, that everybody's watching as we round out our capital program in 2019. Capital was accelerated into Q4
Part of that being Pioneer Pipeline going very well, Pipestone plant going well. Like Joel said, some of that is a timing issue, but has got us close to the top end of our covenants. Again, just a timing issue, and when we look at funding in the first quarter around TransAlta truing up to their 50%, the cogen piece at our Pipestone plant, we remain fully funded through free cash flow and our credit facility to round out that capital program into Q2, Q3, and have those projects come online in the fourth quarter. Again, to reiterate what Joel said, significant interest from not only customers but also partners.
Really a testament, I guess, to the operations team and the engineering team through from our base business operations to the large capital projects that are now nearing completion into the second and third quarter, and look forward to having some of that cash flow online at the end of the year. With that, I think we'll open it up to questions.
At this time, if you would like to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. We'll pause for a moment to compile a Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Rob Hope from Scotiabank. Your line is now open.
Hello, everyone. First question's just on your crude oil infrastructure business. With the volatility we've seen in differentials as well as the amount of rail volumes dropping off in 2019, has that changed the timing or outlook for how much margin that business could do in 2019?
Rob, I'd say not at this point. We are able to hedge and lock in, even through 2020, our margins. Customer interest continues to be at highs, and even as we look at Q4 and Q1 differentials, we think there's opportunity to add to that business. We are, I want to be clear, also focused on the pipeline side, where we've got three pipe-connected batteries. Atchison is a site where we can build out tankage. We're real excited about the crude side of the business, confident in that CAD 10-ish million of base EBITDA over the next 12 months, and I think there's some upside there. We don't want to get ahead of ourselves with government intervention and some of the other pieces that we've seen. Just want to be careful.
The CAD 10 million is solid, locked in. I think it's a question of do we get to CAD 15 million-CAD 20 million, and too early to say at this point in time.
In your prepared remarks, I think you highlighted CAD 200 million-CAD 500 million, if I heard correctly, of potential future growth opportunities that have not yet been secured. Can you just give us some additional color and break those down?
It's a little premature. Pipestone phase two, again, not in the bag, but the team's done a great job there. We've got more support than we've ever had on that front. That would be a CAD 200 million-ish project. A liquids hub at Pipestone is also something we're considering. That could be a CAD 100 million-ish project. If we were to build tankage out at Atchison, it could start around CAD 50 million, but it would likely turn into a CAD 100 million-plus project. I'd say we definitely don't have a lack of projects, from even gas storage expansion at CAD 1 million-CAD 200 million up at Pipestone with some great counterparties that the team's been able to bring to the table, to even maybe building some pipelines.
Some of that's a little competitive, so we want to not go through all our opportunities, I think our message to our shareholders is we do not have a lack of projects. The economics look strong. The function for us, as everyone knows, is more cost to capital and balance sheet. I think we're getting to a point where we're going to have enough options. Raising equity down at these levels is almost a guaranteed no, and nice to have two, three, or four other options. All good questions, Rob.
All right. I'll hop back in the queue. Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Robert Catellier with CIBC World Markets. Your line is now open.
Hey, maybe you can start by telling us where you are on the take-or-pay levels across the business, pro forma having Pioneer and Pipestone in service.
Yeah, good question. I think once those pieces come online, again, we're anticipating CAD 40-ish million of incremental EBITDA between the two projects, all backstopped by take-or-pay, which would be a 50% increase to historical 12-month EBITDA. That's all take-or-pay. Rob, we'd be greater than 70-ish% I'd say, take-or-pay, and then you can ratchet that up when you add in reserve dedication, some of the evergreen fee-for-service contracts that we have that continually renew. I'd say your base number would be 70% once those projects come online.
Okay. That's helpful. What has to happen to make the condensate hub a reality? Is there a particular level of contracting you're looking for, or is it really a question of whether or not you expand Pipestone to phase II?
I think it's a couple factors. Customer support continues to go up, I think we're getting close on that. That's obviously the key piece. Funding as well. I know there's concern in the market and with our debt levels, raising equity, I think we have to have a funding plan in place. Do we need Pipestone phase II? I would say not necessarily, Rob, we could phase out that liquids hub as well. We're hopeful in the next two to three months, we can get that over the goal line, have a funding plan laid out, have the customer support, and move it forward.
Okay. You mentioned private equity a couple times in your funding comments, as much as it's not issuing equity, is there not an element of dilution in there? Depending what you do, right?
Yeah, I would agree, Rob. It's tough to sell down from a cogen to a small working interest in one of our contracted assets. Two, if parties are willing to pay a significant premium to do so, that will enable us funding the next project at a six to seven time EBITDA build, they're willing to pay north of 10x , we're evaluating. I don't want to say I know. We don't know exactly today what we're going to do, nice to have options in the Canadian energy sector right now. There's a lot of groups on the producer side that don't have options. We're just evaluating our options, into Q4, we'll come forward with the current plan. Things can move around, nice for us to have four or five different options that we're evaluating.
Great. Okay. I see your point. You will take the best option, least dilutive option at the time, I guess. Depending on what your options are then.
Yep.
Final question. You mentioned about strengthening customer contracts on the crude oil infrastructure business. What impact does the government's policy of mandatory curtailments on Alberta and also the acquisition of railcars have on that outlook?
I think it just presents uncertainty, Rob, more than anything. For us, it is going to continue to be an issue. Egress out of Western Canada, we are set up nicely with infrastructure, railcars, likely move towards pipelines, tankage, and storage, we are cautious. We have even looked at export terminals, where I would say at this point, they are on hold, just given all the uncertainty. Tidewater, us, we cannot make CAD 100-plus million commitments on a bit of a guess on where the government's going to land on intervention moving forward. It is definitely an issue. We have got great customers and counterparties that we have dealt with a ton over the past 10 years. They are eager to work with us.
To open up 10 markets after only six months is something we are extremely proud of, and we continue to see demand for crude, and we can be a big part of that, both on the pipe, tankage, and also on the rail side.
Okay. Thanks for taking my questions and the presentation.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Patrick Kenny with National Bank Financial. Your line is now open.
Yeah, good morning, guys. You mentioned in the release new volumes at Ram River. I just wanted to confirm if you were talking about volume growth through 2018 or just new volumes since acquiring the plant in late 2017. If the former, if you can give us a bit more color on what's driving the growth there. Then maybe longer term, curious to get your thoughts around Ikkuma as a customer and potentially ramping up production there if Pieridae does sanction their LNG plant at some point here.
Hey, Pat. Ram River, the guys did a great job when we acquired that plant in December 2017. The plant was around CAD 120 million a day. Today, we would be another 20%-30% higher than that. That was through incremental adds through 2018. No significant adds in Q4, but through 2018, definitely volumes came on from some large investment-grade producers in the area. I would say what is driving the growth, it is a big plant down there, and the sour processing, I think is something that is becoming a little more scarce in the area.
So the ability for Ram River to take volumes, no problem. It has got a ton of capacity. It can take a pile of sour volumes. I think that would be a piece of it, and then also working with producers in a tough environment to get creative on fees and that sort of thing.
We are definitely happy with the increase at the Ram facility, for sure. So yeah, through 2018, it was a lot of hard work from the commercial team to bring those volumes on. Sorry, what was your other question, Pat?
Just upside related to longer term-
Pieridae, right?
upside related to Ikkuma and Pieridae.
Right. Yeah, I think the acquisition by Pieridae, we'd view that as a positive. They've got some pretty big plans in the area, so we're definitely rooting for them. They've been a great counterparty for us. As you know, they were involved when we acquired the plant, so they've been a great customer for us. We hope that they continue to grow the volumes. Like I say, I would view it as a positive. They've just raised some capital. Definitely, I think if they're able to execute on their plans, there's hopefully a whole bunch of upside for the Ram plant. We're definitely rooting for them and happy to have them as a customer.
Maybe just a few things to add there quick. Sulfur price, Pat, has been helpful, too, over the past 12 months. It's actually, I don't know, I'd say even meaningful to net backs. Ram's one of the largest sulfur plants out there, we've been great at opening up some new markets. We're moving unit trains of sulfur and have been for six months or so there. Then on Ikkuma, Pieridae, I want to see Tim, what he does best, which is drilling foothills wells. They've drilled a few. It's a little early. I don't want to speak on their behalf, but we're real excited to see what they can do now that they've raised their CAD 20 million as well. We're big supporters and trying to help them wherever we can.
All right. That's great color. Thanks, guys. Then Joel, as you formulate your funding plan here over the coming quarters, you mentioned some interest in some of your assets from private equity, and just curious how you feel about potentially a strong bid coming in for an asset like the Pioneer Pipeline after it's commissioned, of course. If the stock is still trading at six, seven times by then, and let's say you can sell your 50% interest in the pipeline for somewhere north of 10x , is that something that you have to consider, or is it just not for sale because of other strategic reasons?
Pat, we can never say it's not for sale. We always would consider a bid. Knowing our plans expansion-wise and the economics of those expansion plans at 3x-5x EBITDA multiples, we are focused on that front and finding a way over the next five-10 years to move 400 million a day of gas through that pipeline. I would say it would be highly unlikely we would divest of our entire interest in that pipeline. TransAlta's been a great partner. Never say never, and as we've seen on the U.S. side, there's been multiples paid of north of even 15x on pipelines. I'd say today that is highly unlikely. We're focused on growing the gas throughput through that pipeline and maybe even expanding that infrastructure over the next five-10 years.
Okay, that's great. Just a quick follow-up on the Pioneer. Given TransAlta's recent announcement to extend the mothballing of Sundance Three and Five right through 2021, basically, does that somewhat limit the potential upside in throughput over and above the initial 130 million a day, or do you still see the need to add some compression to the pipe well before 2022?
It feels like there's more demand than we can meet, and I think they're continuing to look at ways to get even more than 400 million cubic feet a day of gas into that complex, Pat. No, the mothballing news was not a surprise to us. We're focused on trying to get more gas, and they're more excited than they've ever been in the project, and they've been an incredible partner and want to thank the entire TransAlta team.
All right. That's perfect. Thanks, guys.
Again, if you would like to ask a question, that is star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Robert Kwan with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Hey, good morning. Maybe I'll just start where we ended off here on the Pioneer Pipeline, you commented that it feels like there's more demand than for what Pioneer can offer. Just wondering, under the contract, TransAlta has talked about trying to secure a second connection. Is there preferential rights to pull the gas off of Pioneer before pulling it off of an alternative system?
I'll answer that, Robert. One of our guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've got preferential or priority on 130. Then above and beyond that, it's open to either counterparty to source volumes. The taker pays the increase commensurate with any expansion. I think it would come down to economics. Given the pipe is in the ground, I would think that the best option would be through our existing pipeline. There's the base 130, then there's some optionality above that for either counterparty to source and tie in volumes.
Yeah, we just want to reiterate, they've been a great partner. We are going out of our way to focus our efforts with them versus Capital Power or others, just want to continue to reiterate that.
Okay. Just in terms of EBITDA, there is the comment here of exiting 2019 greater than 50% higher. I am just wondering, you have also given more specific guidance around 2019 EBITDA previously of CAD 100 million-CAD 105 million, in 2020 at CAD 125 million-CAD 135 million. I am just wondering if you are still comfortable with those numbers kind of coming out of the quarter, whether that is just what is going on in the base business or even what you are seeing around throughput, frac spreads, NGL prices and the like.
Yep. I would say, Rob, it is a little early. We are only into Q3, happy to reiterate that guidance that you have mentioned, CAD 125 million-CAD 130 million into 2020. Exiting 2019 is something we are confident in. I think the question is a bit on the upside piece, which we are not quite ready, and I think just the uncertainty we have seen with government intervention and other pieces, just don't want to get ahead of ourselves. Nice to deliver a strong Q4. Q1 is feeling good, and as our two projects come online and we are highly confident they are into the end of the year, getting more and more confidence. A lot of that cash flow, I think as everyone knows, is contracted. It is not us trying to determine a margin on an NGL barrel or a crude barrel. It is contracted tolling EBITDA, huge for our shareholders.
Got it. Those EBITDA ranges are pre-IFRS 16, is that correct?
Mr. Vorra?
Yeah. That's right, Rob.
Okay. Perfect. If I can just finish one last question here. In Q4, you had significant realized hedge gains. Just wondering, was all or substantially all of that related to hedging volumes that you actually sold in Q4? Or was some of that monetization of hedges in advance of, say, Q1 or Q2 flow?
The majority of that would have been Q4 volumes, that'd be a mix of some of the crude pieces. As you know, when you get into crude, obviously a lot higher value than NGL. Some of that would be crude, some of that would be existing NGLs. Yeah, the majority of that would be Q4 related.
Okay. That's right. Thank you.
Thanks, Rob.
Our next question comes from the line of Elias Foscolos with Industrial Alliance Securities. Your line is now open.
Good morning. I'll start with a question on the crude by rail. You've given us some numbers directionally, CAD 10 million annualized for 2019. I was just wondering, how did Q4 shape up directionally? Was it above that sort of on an annualized basis, if you can give us some idea, or below?
Yeah. Elias, hi, it's Joel here. Q4 would probably be a touch ahead of that. Even when we work with producers and refiners, we don't try and maximize our margin to the last CAD 0.50 . It's a long-term game, and we're seeing that through Q1 and through 2019 and 2020, where they're coming to us first. We're doing some moves that I never dreamed we would've into some refineries that we've never even been able to access over the past 10 years. Roughly Q4 would, I don't know, say 10-ish %, margin-wise, probably ahead of what we would plan through 2019. We've locked in the 2019 cash flow, very confident in that CAD 10 million. There could be some upside there, but just a little too early to say, especially with the government intervention piece. There's just a little too much uncertainty out there.
Great. Thanks for that color. A bit of a follow-up on Robert's last question. He sort of related to the realized gain in Q4, so I'll sort of start with that. I think the growth, you guys have clearly given us that number, call it CAD 10 million EBITDA annualized per quarter on the projects that are under construction right now. When I look at Q4 going into Q1, and I'm not interested in specific numbers, just directionally, we should be seeing an increase at Brazeau River. We should be seeing sort of a widening frac spread, although I don't know if that's going to impact you too much. Probably, an impact, positive impact off Ram River, and yet kind of a negative impact off the realized gains.
Would that kind of put us as sort of as a trajectory going sort of stable for where we are on the base, maybe slightly downward, and then of course, as projects come on, sort of take off? Just something along that line, if possible.
Yeah. I think directionally, what we've seen in Q4 is similar to what we can expect in a Q1 and a Q2 directionally, just seeing how the business reacts in different environments. Once those projects come on, that's when we're going to see the increase. Joel touched on it a couple of times. There's a lot of uncertainty and volatility. Some of that volatility we benefit from. I don't want to say that there's no chance for upside or even 5% on either end, 5% or 10% on either end. There's always that possibility. I'd say directionally Q1, Q2, expect to see kind of what you've seen. Then when those projects come online is when we get to that guidance when we're talking 50% or our exit 2019 run rates.
Elias, Joel here. If you wanted to stress test it, I think flat is the message Q1, Q2. I think on the downside, if you said worst case, what could it look like? It's probably 5% move down, roughly. Just trying to set expectations. There always can be event bankruptcies or if gas went to CAD 0.25. We don't see any of that, but I'm just trying to give you some guidance as to where we see things over the next couple of quarters. Then into Q3, Q4, I expect to see a very large increase in cash flow and EBITDA.
Yeah. What we're really saying into Q4 into Q1, kind of expect the same overall, but operations are going to pick up and make the difference up. Of course, as we get into Q3, Q4, that's been said four times over this call. That's pretty clear to me.
Great. Just want to be clear, too. Some of those, when we look at the we're focusing on, a lot of that is hedging base business. The marketing piece, I think we should be clear, too, is marketing off the back of our assets. It's not-
Spec trading.
Right.
We're not spec trading.
Right.
Guessing where the market's going to be.
Yeah. It wouldn't be speculative trading. Just realize a lot of those marketing pieces are more locked in than what you might think, given it's off the back of our pipe infrastructure, rail infrastructure, storage.
Products.
Right.
Yeah.
So it is-
Great
..base business related and not as one time as it might look. Although the volatility and the movement in differentials, yeah, definitely did have an impact on it.
Yeah. No, that's great color. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
There are no further questions in queue at this time. I'll hand the call back over to Joel MacLeod for closing comments.
Well, thank you everyone. Thanks for making time today. We look forward to working hard through 2019 and delivering our 50% plus EBITDA growth into the end of the year. Thanks again to everyone, our customers, shareholders, staff. Again, a big thank you.
This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.