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Earnings Call: Q3 2022

Nov 23, 2022

Operator

This meeting is being recorded.

Dennis Fong
Investor Relations Contact, Pivotree

We will open the line for a question and answer session for the analyst. To ask a question, we would ask the analyst to click on the icon to raise their hand. Before we begin, we would like to remind listeners that certain information discussed today may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking information reflects the company's current views with respect to future events. Any such information is subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements. For more information on the risks, uncertainties, and assumptions related to the forward-looking statements, please refer to Pivotree's public filings, which are available on SEDAR. During the call, we will reference certain non-IFRS financial measures. Although we believe these measures provide useful supplemental information about our financial performance, they are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under IFRS.

Please see our MD&A for additional information regarding our non-IFRS financial measures, including for reconciliations to the nearest IFRS measures. I'd like to turn the call over to Pivotree CEO, Bill DiNardo.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Before I start, I noticed that our keener, Robert Young, already has his hand up. I wonder if there's something we need to check with him on before we get started. His hand is down, maybe it was an accident. All right. Well, welcome, everyone. Thank you, Dennis. Thanks for joining us for our 2nd quarter 2020 conference call. Joining me this morning is Mo Ashour, our Chief Financial Officer. I'm pleased to be sharing another really strong quarter for Pivotree. Once again, we came in ahead of consensus on all of our key measures. This was possible because of the strong efforts of our global team of Pivoters.

Our BUs are staying close to our customers to solve critical business challenges, and this is allowing us to drive growth and performance, even in an increasingly volatile macroeconomic environment that we all keep reading about. This structure is evolving, we've made some changes on how we operate this quarter, and I'm going to cover a bit of that today. I believe our model will continue to serve us well as we execute on growth 1st, but also finding that balance with greater profitability that we've been talking about for the last couple of quarters. Again, you've now seen clear signs of the efforts we're making to achieve those profitability goals. Revenue for the 3rd quarter came in pretty close to CAD 25 million, our 2nd-highest quarterly output this year. It represents 54% year-over-year growth.

Organic growth was approximately 9% with year-over-year growth in both non-recurring and recurring revenue. Constant currency was around 6%. Our Q3 was based on a 1.3 average on the exchange. There could still be some upside in this. You know, we do expect and we're planning to see a drop at two four. Last year was 1.26, and you all know what the 4th quarter has been tracking to. Again, there's still a little bit of currency upside. We like to think about the business more on a constant currency basis, though. Our recurring revenues were up modestly the last few quarters, coming in closer to 45% of total revenue in Q3.

Some of that's due to the fact our customers are looking to extend life of their current digital commerce platform. We've highlighted in the past, you know, we expected a continuous slow roll-off. It's been a little slower, and some of that I think you can attribute to people's concerns about the state of the economy, not starting or slowing down major initiatives, and as a result, extending the life of some of those platforms. It's also not uncommon to see a lift in Q3 and Q4. That's our holiday season lift. It's still a big part of our business. Again, folks ramping up to do some of their peak periods in and around, in fact, this week. We're also benefiting from a tailwind, right?

The U.S. dollar is obviously affecting our revenue because both our bookings and 85% of our revenues are in U.S. dollars. Our BUs have settled in, and we've talked a lot about this, our business units, and that's, you know, the core business units of commerce, of supply chain, and of data. There's been a new level of consistency and scale that we've now demonstrated in those three quarters. Our year-to-date revenues are pacing. We're about CAD 75.5 million, and we're set to really break the CAD 100 million by the end of the fiscal year based on our current run rate. BUs are doing well, driving good revenue growth. As a result, we're going to have the kind of year we expected.

Looking at our bookings trend, which has always been a pretty good indicator of what comes right after, you know, we had our record in Q1. We saw that impact on Q2's revenues. The 3rd quarter saw record bookings again, CAD 19.2 million, slightly above our previous record. This was a result of strong contributions across all three business units, but data management's clearly been leading the way. A lot of the business that's coming our way this year has been on the project side. It makes up about 96% of our total bookings. The strategic conversations we're having with our customers is deepening our relationships across multiple categories, and it is setting the pathway for more products and services in these accounts. I'm going to talk a little bit more about that for a 2nd.

Most of the increase we saw in MRR this past quarter was driven by seasonal volumes. This shows up in the sequential increase of MRR. It's not captured in bookings because again, remember, we don't, we don't count bookings of renewals. We've seen a nice steady pacing of our recurring revenue. The leading indicator that's giving me some confidence, and I mentioned it in my CEO letters, we're currently tracking to a 3rd of all of our PS customers or professional service customers that are consuming managed services. That's up almost 50%. It's a good leading indicator for us that our professional service clients are starting to attach those managed services that we expected. The other leading indicator that we're starting to see is more customers are buying multiple categories from us.

Our BUs are selling together more frequently, and we're coming out of the gate now more frequently with a combined service offering. Again, the strategy of three strong BUs, combined with an attach rate on managed services, it's playing out. The lagging indicator will eventually become the MRR, but we're seeing good leading indicators telling us we continue to be on the right track with our strategy. In prior quarters, I talked about how our organization had reached a new cadence level for bookings. We've seen this play out now. Our average quarterly bookings pace last year was approximately CAD 11 million, CAD 9.3 million before acquisitions. We're currently pacing to approximately CAD 17 million in bookings per quarter this year, which is a 54% increase from 2021.

Now, I know everybody would love to know what the bookings are this quarter. You'll find out soon enough. We continue to have strong pipeline. We continue to close at or above our current pace. We remain optimistic that we're gonna be at or above average on our bookings for the coming quarters. Don't be surprised, you know, again, if we continue to get some exceedingly strong quarters because we're seeing demand. We're also being cautiously optimistic. We know that all the signs around inflation and recession are real. You know, this is again, these are leading indicators. The key for us will be converting those bookings into revenue.

On top of that, growing our product and recurring revenue business remains a priority, and that's one of the key reasons why we made some of the changes we made in the quarter to how we run the business. Let's talk a little bit about that. We've, we've talked in the past about four business units, the 4th being Digital Solutions, and it was effectively a shared service running underneath each. We've chosen to streamline our business and how we operate and become more efficient by focusing on the three customer-facing business units. That's the supply chain, that's the commerce, that's the data. Our, our colleagues in India use an expression, Jugaad, which is basically doing more with less. This is really in that theme.

There's other meanings of Jugaad that, you know, we don't ascribe to, but the key here really is about getting more from our business units, which are closer to our customers and better able to understand their challenges, the products that will help solve those challenges, but also they're in a better position to commercialize these new products as they come out. Really, this is about trying to drive more practical innovation by having the employees closest to the problems in our customers being responsible for developing those new products and commercializing them. We have to do better with the rate of progress in products. Some of the things we've been doing were taking longer. Some of them just weren't, in our opinion, driven by enough consumer or customer insight.

Even since the change, we've already started to see progress in some of those areas where the BUs are taking much more responsibility for commercializing efforts, and we're starting to see attach rates in areas we weren't seeing before. We feel good about those changes. We've also eliminated some duplication in leadership. We've got plenty of leadership in each of the BUs, and they control a lot of the required resources, including sales folks, to get focused on the products. Where the Digital Solutions team just didn't have control of the customer as much. This doesn't require as much collaboration. There's a lot more control of where the products go. Again, we gain client intimacy, and we really empower the teams to find practical and more efficient innovative solutions. That was the biggest change this quarter.

You saw it did result in some people changes. It does have a customer, or sorry, an employee impact and a cost impact. Most importantly, we do believe that we're gonna be able to take those dollars saved and redeploy some of those again into accelerating these products even faster. Our leading indicators told us we needed more relevant client insights. We've actioned that, and we've also freed up more dollars to invest in future growth. We're very excited about some of the specific initiatives that we've shared in the past. Data as a Service, which is based on DIVE and Natalie, two of our automation tools. Again, some of the way you'll see this manifest is in accelerating revenue, improved revenue per employee in those groups, and eventually you'll see recurring revenue.

The nature of the work we do for customers with software assist is very much like recurring revenue. They're driving disruptive outcomes, and that group in particular doubled their revenue this year with the help of some of the automation. Again, a lot of good things happening. Every one of our really core product initiatives already has revenue and customers that are informing us. What we're doing now is putting more money behind their development, their acceleration into new customers. WMS is the same way. We see enormous opportunity converting that really feature-rich, mature product into a Software as a Service, cloud-1st, headless solution, and we're in mid-flight on that. More than 20% of the core functionality from the legacy software has been converted to a microservice format.

Now, that 20% of functionality probably represents more value in terms of the baseline features than the 20% would capture. But you know, the important message here is we're making significant progress converting that to a product of the future. In terms of the current business environment, commerce still remains our biggest BU with the highest percent of recurring revenue, primarily managed services. This has been a transition year for commerce. They've successfully ramped up pipeline in the next generation platforms. You've heard us talk about the Spryker, the commercetools, pushing more of the VTEX, and we see that pipeline expecting to translate into stronger bookings in 2023. This is an example though of an area where we've seen delays due to macroeconomic impacts.

We have legacy customers staying longer, we've also seen a number of projects in commerce get approval and directional approval, effectively, the budgets are only gonna be released in 2023. Commerce is turning around this year. We see a lot of upside in it in 2023. Our data team has scaled up quite quickly and is expected to grow significantly in 2023. This team is a complete management leadership structure, just like our other BUs, strong partners, excellent bookings and pipeline, and they're gonna benefit greatly from the investments we're making in those automation tools. Supply chain developing and delivering consistent results. We acquired them in Q3. We landed several new renewals and extensions, and we think we've got a terrific product that we're building out together now.

Again, this is a smaller business unit with lots of upside given how important supply chain is, particularly going into this new economic climate. We've really put some emphasis on strengthening those BUs. We've shifted corporate spend down closer to the business units and become more efficient at a corporate level. A lot of these steps are driving the outcomes that we're projecting into 2023, and you'll also start to see some of the impact in Q4. Again, overall, really excited. The probably the other important thing that we've hinted at now, and I mentioned it a moment ago, but over 70% of our customers are managed service customers, and I think it's important for folks to remember that. 40% are professional service customers.

That means there's an overlap between the two, importantly, if from our estimation, the 50% increase in penetration from the professional service customers into managed services is demonstrating the strategy's working. Mo is gonna discuss the financials in more detail, as I shared in my Q2 update, I'm reducing the emphasis on solely growth metrics to provide a more balanced view of profitable growth. We've been consistently growing revenue and gross profit as well as revenue per share and gross profit per share, which are key measures we look at as a management team. What I think is worth pointing out here is with one-time restructuring charges in Q3, we expect to see CAD 1 million per quarter of savings. Understand that we may reinvest some of that in 2023 as growth still remains a priority.

On the left chart, the yellow bar is showing adjusted OpEx improved in Q3 versus Q2. That will improve further as a result of the changes we've just made. This combined with a solid revenue outlook gives us confidence we're moving towards that sustainable positive adjusted EBITDA posture we said we would for 2023. Again, I think, you know, people are hearing our message and I think the state of the market today is we don't buy stories, we buy results. As a result, again, I would say keep watching Q4. We'll provide further evidence, and I think 2023, we've set the foundations for consistency. I think it's important to note, 'cause I've talked about this a lot in the past, from an acquisition perspective, we're gonna remain disciplined in how we allocate capital.

We continue to build a healthy pipeline of targets. We've taken a number of targets to LOI stages, but we haven't successfully closed any deals to this point. While I expected to see the gap between public and private valuations close, it hasn't as much as I would've expected by now. It does seem like private equity, especially focused and technology private equity, is staying in the sector and is forcing competition, and we're seeing valuations that are still exceeding the kind of multiples you would find in the public. That puts some pressure on us. We will not break from our strategy around, these businesses that we acquire have to be key growth areas for us. There's some in particular that we would really like to get done.

You know, make no mistake, we are motivated to get something done in this space for long-term strategic reasons. We know what great deals can do for us, like the Codifyd and Bridge transactions have done. We continue to look for great opportunities. They have to be growing. They have to meet, you know, strategic requirements. Their gross margins have to be above 40%, and particularly in today's environment, they have to be demonstrating positive cash flow. Look, there's lots that have elements of each, and I'll tell you, the ones that have all of those tend to be pricier. What we're really looking at are, you know, which ones excel above the others and are worthy of pursuit and even potentially paying a modest premium to get. We won't pay premiums on, you know, on average businesses.

This is, you know, ultimately has to cross our IRR hurdle and has to demonstrate it's a better return on our precious capital versus buying our own stock, which, you know, at the current multiples is, in my opinion, the best investment available to us today. It may take another quarter or two for private valuations to come more in line. In talking with some of my, you know, CEO peers, they're all seeing the same thing. This is not uncommon. I think we are starting to see indications, particularly with raising interest rates and the way PE likes to use leverage in their acquisitions. We may start to see a cooling off in Q1 or Q2, and I wanna make sure we've got dry powder when we're where we can do great deals.

Crossing over to EBITDA and ultimately cash flow positive is a really critical milestone for us. It gives us the control of our destiny. It gives us the capital we need to continue to invest. This continues to be Mo and my priority with the team is grow profitably, cross over cash flow, and get control of our destiny. Yeah, I think we're tracking well on all these fronts. We want to continue to remind folks we're disciplined operators, and we're cautiously optimistic about what the future holds based on current pipelines, current bookings, and the current tailwinds. With that, let me turn it over to Mo and provide you a bit of an overview on financial performance.

Mo Ashour
CFO, Pivotree

Great. Thanks, Bill. We'll go to the next slide. As Bill noted, more than 85% of our revenues are U.S. dollar based, we benefited from the currency tailwinds. Revenue for the 3rd quarter grew 54% year-over-year and 49% in constant currency. If you look at the organic growth, 80.5%. Professional services grew 6%, and pleased to report the managed services grew 10.4% organically as new book-bookings, particularly in data management and supply chain, helped to more than offset the Oracle churn. On a sequential basis, we delivered a recurring revenue increase by approximately CAD 400,000, driven by the seasonal consumption that Bill was mentioning from patterns of our commerce customers.

On a year-over-year basis, while Net Revenue Retention was 88%, we're more excited to see this more than offset by the managed service growth through some of the expansions of our PS customers into MS as well, that Bill was alluding to. As we have stated before, future churn and melt of Oracle services can still be a bit lumpy. We benefited from some of the delays this year, and there could be quarters where client migrations could have a bigger impact on our MRR. Moving on to the P&L. Gross profits, gross profit margins of 44.9% for the 3rd quarter improved from 44.5% in the prior year. This overall improvement is the result of disciplined management over cost of goods sold and employee utilization, as prior year also included some investments in ramping up our bench.

The 45% gross margin in Q3 represents sequential improvements over prior quarter as well, which we normalized last quarter during the earnings call to be 44% due to some of the one-time benefits we had. Total operating expense of CAD 15.2 million increased by CAD 4.7 million from prior year period and was up from CAD 14.7 million in Q2 of 2022. If we look at the main expense line items, G&A, sales and marketing, R&D, and our IT and ops, our total operating expense was CAD 500, 000 less than in Q3 than it was in the latest quarter, Q2 of this year. Adjusted EBITDA was - CAD 0.4 million, and EBITDA was - CAD 1.8 million.

The difference between the two was mainly due to the actions we took to streamline our activities under the BUs, which is the main contributor of the CAD 1.1 million restructuring expense represented here. As Bill said, we expect these actions to result in CAD 1 million of quarterly OpEx savings, with some of the benefits starting in Q4 and supporting our objective for balanced profitability going into 2023. We will reinvest some of the savings towards our most important growth initiatives while managing to positive cash flow. Adjusted Free Cash Flow improved by CAD 500, 000 from the prior year period. In our discussion of the earnings results last quarter, which I wanna highlight, we pointed out some of the one-time benefits and the gains that we normalized for. We that would have delivered CAD 1 million EBITDA loss in Q2 of 2022.

With this in mind, the CAD 400,000.4 EBITDA loss, or CAD 0.7 excluding the FX in Q3 represents a sequential improvement despite lower top-line revenue, which is a result of the work we started to position Pivotree for sustainable positive EBITDA going into 2023, a target we remain on track and committed to. If we turn to the balance sheet, you'll see the primary use of cash from operations in Q3. That was the result of accounts receivables increasing, and we expect to collect that over this quarter. We are trending to a positive direction in terms of our cash flow generation. We've also continuously communicated our own discipline of generating positive EBITDA before we consider using a CAD 25 million undrawn credit facility, which will help us support investments in future acquisitions.

Managing our growth investments and producing positive cash flow is our priority, and we have sufficient capital to take advantage of investment opportunities that we see in the market. I'll turn it back to Bill now for a closing summary.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Thanks, Mo. As we position ourselves for 2023, we're gonna be focused on profitable growth. We've said that for much of this year. Again, not just a sign of the state of the capital markets or the recession. It's just time. It's prudent that a business this size is demonstrating profitability as we grow. M&A is still a priority. Pipeline's strong, we're gonna be patient and careful to move forward in the right situations. Again, we have a balance sheet that's capable of getting some deals done. Not knowing how long the capital markets are gonna be the way they are, we're gonna be extremely judicious in the way that we roll that capital out, we're looking for really high-quality deals.

That means we have to go through a lot of deals to find good ones. We've got a number of them. Let's see if we can push them across the finish line. Again, I'm in some respects waiting to see the markets cool off down in the privates in order to really give us permission to get moving here. We're gonna continue to manage expectations and are waiting to see what kind of impact a recession will have. At this point, we have not seen much of an impact. Customers do view what we do as necessary and continue to buy. It's worth noting that we have many retail customers, and they often have their fiscal year ends in January, February.

If adjustments to their budgets are going to come delayed, it's probably going to come after this critical period. We may not see, you know, exactly what kind of impact we're going to feel until we really know what kind of quarter our customers have. We'll see some of that start to refresh in April. We've got really good line of sight again for Q4. Obviously, we're partway through that now, you know, my optimism for Q4 is well-founded. We've got good line of sight into Q1. I think as we stretch further into Q2 of 2023, that visibility starts to get a little murky. Again, we'll wait to see how this quarter ends for our customers. The good news again is we've got a fairly diversified customer base now across the different business units.

They all have different types of customers they're servicing. Again, they remain very large enterprise, many of them global reach, and the kind of size and diversity I think does lend itself to continued spend and investment in this digital transformation. Look, in summary, Q3 was another solid quarter, consistent execution performance. I think we've done a good job being pretty clear on what's coming, and we've been able to manage expectations in the market effectively and deliver. The strong bookings and pipeline additions suggest that our marketplace continues to benefit from those long-term tailwinds. The macroeconomic headwinds that we've been reading about, again, they're headwinds, we've got to be cognizant of them, but we haven't seen their impact on us yet.

Since Q1 and Q2, we've been taking measures and measured steps to get better control of our destiny and relying on our own ability to produce cash. You saw evidence in this quarter. We've taken even more significant steps, which is going to lead to CAD 1 million per quarter of savings. There's other things that are being worked on that will continue to improve the efficiency by which we run the business. We've got some key product development initiatives that are starting to demonstrate traction that we're going to invest more into. Overall, I think we're executing on the plan that we said we would. We've delivered consistent results now for a number of quarters, and our heads are down, and we're running the business.

To be candid, we're not paying too much attention to what's happening in the capital markets today 'cause a lot of that is out of our control. We hope you share the perspective on our results, and now I think we'll turn it over to the analysts for some questions.

Dennis Fong
Investor Relations Contact, Pivotree

Thanks, Bill. We'll take a moment to pull for questions. Please hit the icon to raise your hand to ask a question. Our 1st question comes from Daniel Rosenberg from Paradigm Capital. Please go ahead, Daniel.

Daniel Rosenberg
Equity Research Analyst, Paradigm Capital

Hi. Good morning. My 1st question was around the bookings. It was nice to see the growth in the bookings number. I was just curious to understand how far out do the bookings go. How much visibility is in that pipeline in terms of start dates, when that converts to revenue?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

I'm sure between Mo and I, we can give you a little bit of color on that that helps. Look, a number of the contracts that were signed this quarter were very large, some of the biggest we've ever signed, and they're going to extend for multiple quarters, would be my estimation. They will be all kind of in-year revenue. They started. A lot of these have started already. Some of these, particularly, you know, when you get into the bigger clients, it just takes longer to get some of the signatures, the start dates, you know, become really critical. We've been ramping up gearing for those, and some of those are starting already.

I'd say a significant portion of these will start to hit in Q4, on top of the benefit of what we signed last quarter, which again gives us confidence, you know, Q4 is gonna look a lot like what you've seen from us in the past. Mo, any additional color you wanna add for Daniel?

Mo Ashour
CFO, Pivotree

Yeah. I mean, largely, and you saw obviously it's on the non-recurring booking was strong and those typically start converting fairly quickly. Some of these are we're active and we're running. It's just now signing the next phase or the next portion of the roadmap. Fairly quickly, like, there's some larger deals that are 12 month deals in there, so it kind of gives you a sense of the timeline it would take to convert as well.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

I think the only thing I'd add to it, and it's a good point Mo's bringing up around the professional services. They can ramp up fairly quickly. A number of these contracts also have managed services and recurring components. Those generally we're finding are coming after, you know, a phase or two of the PS. The recurring portion of some of these, you know, could be a couple of quarters out. They don't tend to start quite as quickly.

Daniel Rosenberg
Equity Research Analyst, Paradigm Capital

Thanks for that. Around the pricing of recurring revenue, I was just curious to hear, 'cause, you know, everybody's battling with inflation, if you had any pricing escalators or fees tied to inflation-related costing as customers renew on recurring revenue?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Yeah. You know, Daniel, at a time like this and knowing, you know, some of the challenges our customers face, we do our best to price to market, and we do our best to maintain strong relationships with customers. I can tell you there's pricing elasticity in some parts of the business, and where there's pricing elasticity, we've been increasing price. Where there's price elasticity or, yes, price elasticity, we've been a little bit more cautious about how we raise prices. Again, part of this is we're looking for efficiencies in the way we run our business, in order to have to place less emphasis on price increases to drive our top line. Again, we're looking to win customers with value of work.

Again, as we shift away frankly from dollars per hour in PS and more to solutions and outcomes, we can expand margin, we can drive more value for customer, and ultimately the trifecta is when the customer perceives a cost saving, and we can do all of that more efficiently for them, with expanding margins on our end. That's the real win. I think it's more around how to manage the outcome, than it is about specifically a price increase.

Daniel Rosenberg
Equity Research Analyst, Paradigm Capital

Thanks for that. Lastly for me, it seems like data management continues to fire on all cylinders. I was curious to hear, in terms of kind of capacity and resources, you know, obviously you're investing in that business, but, you know, what's the potential you see there? Does it require significant investment as you look towards the next year's demand?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

That's a great question, and it's one of regular conversation internally. The demand is very high, and in fact, I think we're kinda getting to the point where that team is saying without the software enhancements that we're working on, the only way we could expand is by adding more bodies, and they're skilled bodies. They're hard to find. A big part of the investment in the software initiative that started this year is to create more capacity. You've heard me talk about this a lot. This team has bought into this wholeheartedly. This is about revenue per employee, and software automation creates leverage in this category. Our machine learning tools, some of our data ingestion and the automation around that creates more capacity for our skilled employees.

The goal this year really is to strengthen the software component in order to add more capacity to an excellent skilled team. We've also got some programs running, particularly in India, to bring on more staff, you know, parts of this business doubled last year. This team feels like those same businesses could triple or quadruple with the right kind of software in hand. We're making progress on it. There's a lot of emphasis on unlocking growth in this group because there is definitely no shortage of demand.

Daniel Rosenberg
Equity Research Analyst, Paradigm Capital

Great to hear. I'll pass the line. Thanks.

Dennis Fong
Investor Relations Contact, Pivotree

Thanks, Daniel. Our next question is from Jesse from Cormark Securities.

Jesse Pytlak
Equity Research Analyst, Cormark Securities

Good morning. Bill, really encouraged by kind of the commentary on seeing that conversion of MS by some of your PS customers. I guess maybe 1st can you just talk about, you know, what areas of MS are you seeing the strongest interest in from this conversion of the PS base?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Look, data for sure is seeing more of the customers converting to managed services. Again, the commitment from the GM in that group is the attach rates. He is using more of our available technology. He's driving penetration in some of the software components. Look, I think part of what you're seeing, and why we wanted to flag that leading indicator, is we're seeing the attach rate. The revenues attached to some of the early managed services are not the same kind of revenue per employee you'd see on the Oracle, right. We're seeing, you know, slow wind down of very big, large, complex, expensive managed services, and what you're seeing are some new managed services, managed application services, some of our integration services being delivered as a service. What you're seeing right now is the attach rate.

You're seeing customers that wanna buy that solution. What we're expecting over time is just more of those attach rates, again, penetrate deeper into those projects. The revenue will fall behind it. It, it'll start to catch up on the recurring. Data is definitely leading the way. Again, a lot of our supply chain, business is managed service and license and support, in the recurring side. We acquired some good stuff in there. We've been investing more to accelerate that product conversion, we think that's another one. We've had a number of good wins recently in multi-BU, where one of the components is our recurring supply chain services. It's across the board from... From a materiality perspective, I'd say data's driving it at the moment.

Jesse Pytlak
Equity Research Analyst, Cormark Securities

Okay. That's helpful. Maybe this is a bit more difficult to try to answer, but can you just give us a sense of, like, within that converted base, like how deeply penetrated are you? Like, how much of your MS services are these PS customers really taking up? I would probably think it's probably still maybe low percentage if you wanna think about it that way, but maybe can you just help us conceptualize that?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

30% of our PS customers, right? Again, 40% of our customers have PS from us. 30% of them have managed services. Go back to one of the numbers I shared earlier. 70% of our customer base are buying managed services. Right? Our penetration is deep. The, you know, the recurring is not necessarily reflecting the bigger trend. And I think, again, if as people have been asking, "Well, when are you gonna turn a corner?" I mean, the reality is we never left. Again, our core business is still 70% of our customers buy managed services. It's just the value of work we're doing in PS and the demand is so high right now on the PS side, it's overshadowing the recurring part of the revenues that's coming from those MS. Again, we'll see the MRR follow, but for me, the penetration of managed services is the best leading indicator that it continues to be central to our business.

Jesse Pytlak
Equity Research Analyst, Cormark Securities

I appreciate that. I think I was asking more in regards to, you know, of your total MS offering, you know, how many different products would these-

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Oh, sorry.

Jesse Pytlak
Equity Research Analyst, Cormark Securities

... PS converts be taking up?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Okay. You're talking about sort of multi-category. Some of the leading indicators, we're talking about how to best share that with folks, Mo, you've been pulling more of that with Pete lately. Any insights you can give Jesse on multi-category, managed services?

Mo Ashour
CFO, Pivotree

Yeah. It's obviously a key metric of ours for the BU strategy. It's not to build three individual BUs, it's to build solutions. I think we're seeing more and more of our customers and our structure this year also taking a conversation of all, where all three BUs, experts from all three BUs are sitting at the table with our customers. We've been able to close some cross-sell wins that offers services across the different BUs. We've seen indication those, again, leading indicators, those are good solid brands, good brands.

We've seen at least about say 10 logos that are leveraging multiple BUs in a pipeline that continues to grow where the discussion is not about just a specific BU product, but it's about a solution that integrates and crosses across the multiple BUs. We can, again, drive a solution that's integrated, solves a business problem, and leverages our products from across the different BUs in our, in our offerings.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

It's timely 'cause this quarter was actually a big quarter for us of go live on a couple of customers in particular where they were multiple categories. In 1 case was an existing customer that added the 2nd in supply chain. In fact, again, it was a little bit of a trifecta. We had a 3rd customer, probably our single biggest new logo earning win, contract win this year, and it was a multi-category. Two of the categories, commerce and data, and they're already talking to us about a 3rd. We're seeing the evidence, Jesse. I think, you know, it's probably still not a reportable metric, but something, you know, we'll continue to give you some color on that progress. That's the theme.

I know some of you asked me in the past, does success look like standing up three individual business units and selling them off in the future? you know my answer was no, that's failure. Failure is three great BUs that stand alone. A success are three BUs that our customers treat as one company. I think we're seeing the evidence. The BUs themselves, another reason why we took down Digital Solutions, the BUs are behaving as one Pivotree. They. We find the GMs out co-selling a lot now together. Those are all good leading indicators.

Jesse Pytlak
Equity Research Analyst, Cormark Securities

All right. Thanks for that. That's, it's very encouraging.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Yeah. Thanks, Jesse.

Dennis Fong
Investor Relations Contact, Pivotree

Thank you. Our next question comes from Robert Young from Canaccord Genuity. Sorry, Robert, I just have to hit the button here. Okay. Go ahead, Rob.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

All right. I guess maybe the 1st question, if you can hear me okay, would be a high-level one. The organic growth, 8.5% in the quarter. I'm just curious, just at a high level, like, how do you see that relative to where you expect the business to be in the near term? How does that compare? What are the things that would be, you know, drivers of higher organic growth?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

This is something that we've got to figure out a better way to communicate, Robert, 'cause I think what we're looking at is net growth, right? You all know 'cause we've talked about it openly for 18 months now, that there's some drag on it. Our actual organic growth on key growth areas is quite a bit higher than the net 10 you're seeing. Really ultimately, you know, what's gonna drive higher net 10 is as that long tail winds off and becomes less and less important, you'll start to see the true organic growth of the business, which is, again, a fair bit higher than what we're able to report to you on a net basis. Again, my optimism remains. The teams are producing great growth. As soon as that, you know, that revenue mix relies less on some of the legacy businesses, you as a market will get a clearer view of just how aggressively our team is growing the business organically.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

Right. Right. When you say that's the net of the lower, legacy, managed services, the roll-off.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Yeah. Oracle. [crosstalk]

Yeah.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

Okay. In the prepared remarks, I think you said that the key focus will be converting bookings to revenue.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Mm-hmm.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

Like, what are the key things there as well? Just at a high level, like, what are the key things to get bookings into revenue that you worry about? I think you suggested that Q4 is gonna be a good bookings quarter. What about the conversion to revenue?

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

I think all you're getting from me on that, Robert, is history. Having lived through the pandemic, and having seen what panic can do for folks, you know, at the end of the day, until it converts to revenue, bookings is just a leading indicator, right? That's really all you're getting from me is cautious optimism that people are signing contracts. Contracts are just a piece of paper. You know, then we have to convert it to revenue, and then we have to collect it. I think, you know, all I'm really reflecting on, Robert, is, look, we're in uncertain times. You know, we all sense it. We see the news constantly.

While I'm optimistic that the paperwork gets signed, I've got the team to deliver the work. Again, until you actually see the money in the bank account, I think we all need to be cautious about what the leading indicators tell us. You know, we make sure we're staffed up, we make sure we get started. Maybe the most important thing, you know, for me, Robert, that we talk about as a team internally, we have to demonstrate value. Each of those contracts needs to prove value to customer for them to continue doing the work and paying for the work. I think that's the greatest indication of whether you're gonna convert, not just bookings to revenue, but revenue to cash, is that the value you're delivering, it warrants it.

In my experience over 20 years with various investments in businesses, the most vital and important businesses even get paid through bankruptcies. Those are the best quality companies, right? Of you're so important, you get paid no matter what's going on around you. I think we've got a blend of that. I think there's a bunch of stuff we do for customers that would keep us getting paid in areas. You saw that through the pandemic. You know, our MRR grew because it was absolutely critical. Same is still true today. The MRR we're doing right now, these are stores that run billions dollars through them. No matter what happens, those stores gotta keep running. That's all I'm really talking about. We've got great bookings. We've started work on many of them. We have to demonstrate value like everybody else in this economy, in order for that to keep going. That's all it really is. There's nothing darker than that about it.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

Great. Great color. Certainly appreciate your conservative nature on those sort of things. It some of the retailers, not that I have my thumb on that pulse, but you probably have a better one. They seem to be saying that it's gonna be a more normal holiday period, which I think means that it's gonna be more back-end loaded after the, you know, Black Friday period. Does that mean that Q4 may see some lockdowns? Maybe just talk about, I mean, what you normally see in Q4, you know, the cadence of the business. You know, if this year looks like it's gonna be something different.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Yeah. Look, I think what's been interesting for the last couple of years is we haven't had a normal in a while, we're trying to figure out what the new normal is going to look like. I think what we started experiencing, particularly through the pandemic, were supply chain issues more than anything else. You know, people's e-commerce sites could take billions of dollars of orders, the supply chain couldn't support it. You started to also see spreading out this notion of, you know, a crazy Black Friday became the cyber week, which has become the lead-up to Black Friday. I'm sure each of you, as consumers, have all experienced the promotional periods, and the promotional deals started earlier.

All of that really is an attempt, in retail in particular, to spread out that, that spike of this season over a longer period of time to be able to manage the supply chain more effectively. You know, again, as a result, I think we saw an early ramp up. We saw servers, you know, getting put in place. We saw added capacity start early, as has been the case for a number of years now. We're on high alert 'cause we're heading into what is normally, again, a peak period. I haven't seen anything unusual this year. I haven't seen, you know, folks feeling like this... I haven't been hearing about people talk about online records this year. Again, I think the reason for that is their stores are open.

People are trying to get back out, and experience other people. There's a real blend this year, I think a true complete blend of full stores back operating plus online, and as a result, maybe not quite the same pressure there's been in the past for the online stores to do it all. I think this is gonna be a, or perhaps a benchmark year for us on what new normal looks like and to start to grow again from new normal. The only, I think, red flag in all of it is: What is the, you know, expected economics of next year going to do to demand? I think this is where retailers are telling you this is still a wait and see. I haven't seen any early indicators of the preliminary sales to know how the promotions have done and what people think they're pacing to. For many of our customers, this is the quarter, and we're probably a week away from having a good sense for how strong the quarter's gonna be.

Robert Young
Managing Director, Canaccord Genuity

Okay, great. Thanks for taking all the questions.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Yeah. Any other questions? I noticed we didn't hear from John Shao. If we don't have other questions, Dennis, we're happy to go back to business.

Dennis Fong
Investor Relations Contact, Pivotree

Yeah. It doesn't look like we have any other questions, I'll turn it over to you to close.

Bill Di Nardo
CEO and Director, Pivotree

Okay. Look, thanks everyone for showing up. It's always a pleasure to share great results that our team has produced. Again, I'm extremely proud of this group to deliver the kind of results we delivered in this quarter on top of managing some of the changes we managed. You know, this team adapts relentlessly, which is why I have the utmost confidence that they'll adapt as they need to in the coming year. We've got a great team. We've got some terrific customers. We do work that's necessary and I think has long, long tailwinds. I hope to continue coming quarter-over-quarter, giving you good news about the business. Thanks again for joining us. Stay tuned, and we'll talk to you in the new year about what I expect to be a great Q4.

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